#1 Posted by Strider92 (16616 posts) - - Show Bio

Scarlet Spider

Vs

Ultimate Spider-people

Spider-man (Peter Parker), Spider-man (Miles Morales), Spider-woman

  • Both teams start on opposite sides of the city. Their objective is to hunt down and beat the opponent/s.
  • Morals On
  • Standard Gear
  • No Prep
  • Win by Death, KO or Incap

Location:

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#2 Posted by Kyle_Dornez (250 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine. He's a known murderer in the past, has an upgraded "Other" spider-powers, has claws and very quick to use them.

Ultimate Spidermen are a bunch of kids, Miles maybe doesn't even have webshooters (since he's got Peters, and he's there, so probably they are with him). Ironically, power-wise he actually may have a chance against Scarlet Spider, because of his zap and camo. But Kaine also has stealth suit, and Miles lacks like ten years of growth and experience.

#3 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5684 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine would utterly murder these children. He's stronger and more powerful then all three combined. As stated above me, he has the experience and fighting prowess they do not. If he is aware that they are kids he may spare them, but they wont exactly be happy about being alive either. Kaine wins, 10/10.

#4 Posted by Kyle_Dornez (250 posts) - - Show Bio

Well as Kaine is now, with morals on, he will try really hard to restrain himself from killing... But some mutilation will occur, no doubts

#5 Posted by Pwok21 (2441 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine is Spiderman+, versus a bunch of hardly trained kids.

Kaine wins 10/10.

#6 Posted by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine. He's physically superior to all of them and has a lot of experience fighting multiple opponents at the same time including spider-powered ones.

#7 Posted by laflux (16221 posts) - - Show Bio

I could probably argue for the Ultimate crew, even I'd still think that Kaine would take a majority.

But seeing this guy do it would be more entertaining- since he has more scans and knowledge to handle Ultimate characters.

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#8 Posted by Shawnbaby (10811 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure if it works the same way in the Ultimate Verse...but by 616 canon...the only real advantage the ultimate Spiders would have here, The Spider-Sense, will be rendered useless (except for Miles). Now they are dealing with an opponent that is just as fast as they are, much much Stronger, more vicious, and has more experience in general and fighting Spider-Powered people in specific.

#9 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

I could probably argue for the Ultimate crew, even I'd still think that Kaine would take a majority.

But seeing this guy do it would be more entertaining- since he has more scans and knowledge to handle Ultimate characters.

I read alot of Ultimate Peter. Nothing on Miles (Upset still they had to do a Minority version of SpiderMan while killing off Peter) and Spider Woman is not that Impressive IMO.

Khain should take this.

#10 Posted by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: I still miss Ultimate Pete (I hope they bring him back at some point) although Miles is growing on me.

#11 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

I maintain that Kaine hasn't done anything to put himself above 616 Peter and his most recent showing against Flash is just more confirmation for me. I think the team has a very good shot here.

#12 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

I maintain that Kaine hasn't done anything to put himself above 616 Peter and his most recent showing against Flash is just more confirmation for me. I think the team has a very good shot here.

I agree. Also I feel like Kaine was holding back against Anna...I doubt he would go full out against a bunch of kids.

#13 Posted by The_Roman (3297 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt: This isn't 616 Parker. It's Ultimate Parker.

#14 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

I am aware it's not 616 Parker. I also think Ultimate Peter is inferior to his 616 counterpart, but at the same time it's not by a significant amount. Maybe 80%? Miles has also done very well against 616 Peter and Spider-Woman is a clone to Ultimate Peter. All that said, coupled with Kaine's newfound attitude, I think the team has an excellent chance and isn't being given enough credit by most.

#15 Posted by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@BringnIt said:

I maintain that Kaine hasn't done anything to put himself above 616 Peter and his most recent showing against Flash is just more confirmation for me. I think the team has a very good shot here.

I agree. Also I feel like Kaine was holding back against Anna...I doubt he would go full out against a bunch of kids.

If they all got to attack him at the same time they might have a shot but under these conditions Kaine will hunt them down and pick them off. The OP says they start at opposite sides of the city and have to hunt each other. This gives Kaine a big advantage due to the fact he can use his "talk to spiders" ability to pinpoint exactly where they are. He managed to find a nuke in Houston in only a few seconds and to my knowledge Houston is bigger than NY. This mean's he'll know exactly where the team is before they even come anywhere near him:

Kaine won't even be put in a position where he needs to go all out as he can just track them and use invisibility to pick them off or separate them.

#16 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

An argument can be made for the Ultimate Spider-men. For one, Kaine lacks a Spider-Sense and in this bout, he has morals so he won't be ripping anyone apart, not that he'd particularly excel at it against these opponents either. While it's evident that he has some form of the "Other" powers, he's done little to prove that he's actually above Peter in regards to physicality. I believe that it's more along the lines that he isn't afraid to utilize brutality against his opponents that people assume he's superior. His advantage here? Organic webbing.

As for Ultimate Peter, I don't necessarily agree that he's far behind 616 Pete in regards to physicality. He might seem weaker and more frail due to being younger and smaller in size, but he did effortlessly smack Osborn with a truck:

Having said that, Peter also has the advantage of having Spider-Sense so if Kaine tried to utilize his suit's camo ability, Peter would be able to detect any on-coming attacks. Now for Miles, he lacks a proper Spider-sense but he makes up for it with his own adaptive camo and the Venom-sting. The team has more than a good chance of distracting Kaine and Pete could give him a fight on his own, but add in that Miles could sneak off and possibly incapacitate Kaine with a Venom sting, the fight would be over.

I'd say the team takes this due to their versatility.

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#17 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosMarvel: Kaine needed to concentrate to talk to spiders. If they find him first than he could be the one getting ambushed as he would be busy focusing. And even if e tracks them we don't know if he is immune to the spider-men of the ultimate universes spider-sense. So I don't believe stealth is a option. And I doubt they will split apart.

#18 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

#19 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

Based off his showing against spider-man it can ko him.

#20 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

Based off his showing against spider-man it can ko him.

Miles fought 616 Spidey and ko him with the Sting?

wow I really need to pick that Arc up.

#21 Edited by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

I doubt it would 1-hit him. Kaine is much more durable than Peter. In one issue he was mindraped and only passed out for a couple of seconds then later in the same issue he was electrified and burnt and didn't pass out at all.

#22 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosMarvel said:

I doubt it would 1-hit him. Kaine is much more durable than Peter. In one issue he was burnt, electrified then mindraped and only passed out for a couple of seconds then later in the same issue he was electrified and burnt again and didn't pass out at all.

Kaine more durable than Peter? That's extremely debatable. Peter has suffered far worse than Kaine has in his current form. The burns barely affected his suit, he's resilient but from such little showing, I don't think he can match up to what Peter has gone through.

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#23 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Peter has greater durability showings than Kaine does and he's also tanked electricity numerous times. Mind rape doesn't show greater durability, either. That said, their durability is about the same and the stinger did not one-shot Peter, either.

#24 Edited by Strider92 (16616 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Personally I don't think Kaine is more durable than Pete but just more tolerant to pain. We've seen Kaine a take a bullet without any sign of discomfort. Pete is good at dodging but I seem to remember him not being particularly great when he took a full on shot. I can see why people think Kaine is more durable but to me it seems like he just he doesn't care about the pain more than anything else. I'm guessing something like a gunshot wound or venom-strike pales in comparison to the pain of cellular degeneration.

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#25 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@jashro44 said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

Based off his showing against spider-man it can ko him.

Miles fought 616 Spidey and ko him with the Sting?

wow I really need to pick that Arc up.

Yea but Peter was barely trying. He was trying to figure out where he was because it was the first time he was in the ultimate universe. He didn't even seem to really be fighting back, for example he knocked miles off a building IIRC and saved him and instead of webbing him off he just removed his mask quite easily. And than Miles surprised him by conducting his sting through Peters webbing which knocked him out. I think they both saved each others life in that fight at least once. I would have to double check but that is how I remember the fight off memory when I was shown the scans.

#26 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Peter has greater durability showings than Kaine does and he's also tanked electricity numerous times. Mind rape doesn't show greater durability, either. That said, their durability is about the same and the stinger did not one-shot Peter, either.

Never meant to say it one shotted him but it did take him down.

#27 Posted by Strider92 (16616 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Yeah thats pretty much how the fight went. Peter wasn't fighting he was just trying to figure out why a kid was dressed up in a suit similar to his.

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#28 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Deranged Midget: Personally I don't think Kaine is more durable than Pete but just more tolerant to pain. We've seen Kaine a take a bullet without any sign of discomfort. Pete is good at dodging but I seem to remember him not being particularly great when he took a full on shot. I can see why people think Kaine is more durable but to me it seems like he just he doesn't care about the pain more than anything else. I'm guessing something like a gunshot wound or venom-strike pales in comparison to the pain of cellular degeneration.

Agreed. To me, it seems that Kaine's anger seems to overcome the pain and he just loses all sense of morality and let's loose. That might be enough to overwhelm Spider-Woman as she seems to be the weakest, but Miles has tanked hits from Rhino and danced with Peter effortlessly. Ult. Pete also has took on basically his most dangerous villains and took out Osborn while bleeding out. I think it's safe to say that Kaine isn't overwhelming either.

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#29 Edited by Strider92 (16616 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Seems a fair assessment.

The only two things i'll throw in is that Miles didn't really dance with Peter. Pete wasn't even fighting really he just seemed interested as to why there was a kid dressed in a suit similar to his. If I recall he didn't even throw a punch at Miles and was just trying to web him up. The second thing is recently Kaine has taken to using his stingers a lot more in combat. Pete's and Mile's resistance to blunt trauma damage is good but I doubt the same could be said for a penetrative attack with potentially 20tons of strength behind it.

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#30 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Deranged Midget: Seems a fair assessment.

The only two things i'll throw in is that Miles didn't really dance with Peter. Pete wasn't even fighting really he just seemed interested as to why there was a kid dressed in a suit similar to his. If I recall he didn't even throw a punch at Miles and was just trying to web him up. The second thing is recently Kaine has taken to using his stingers a lot more in combat. Pete's and Mile's resistance to blunt trauma damage is good but I doubt the same could be said for a penetrative attack with potentially 20tons of strength behind it.

Peter did attack Miles, not a first but he threw a kick and hit Miles in the face. Neither was really interested in fighting but it didn't really affect Miles either. I find that Miles tanking Rhino's hits seems to be the most impressive aspect and he's quickly adapted to utilizing the web-shooters, something that Kaine is undermined in.

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#31 Posted by Kyle_Dornez (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Agreed. To me, it seems that Kaine's anger seems to overcome the pain and he just loses all sense of morality and let's loose. That might be enough to overwhelm Spider-Woman as she seems to be the weakest, but Miles has tanked hits from Rhino and danced with Peter effortlessly. Ult. Pete also has took on basically his most dangerous villains and took out Osborn while bleeding out. I think it's safe to say that Kaine isn't overwhelming either.

Weel, I wouldn't say he tanked it per se... He kinda got smacked across a cityblock and landed in relatively soft water. Every Spidey got hit like that. Now should he stop Rhino on his tracks - that would be tanking IMO.

#32 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I'd really like Kaine to be treated as a ten-tonner instead of twenty because he doesn't have strength feats that are even close to Peter's much less surpassing them. Honestly, Ultimate Peter has better strength feats than Kaine does since his change during Spider Island. Just because Peter was at that range when his Other powers manifested doesn't mean Kaine is at the same level, especially considering Kaine hasn't demonstrated all of Peter's powers during that story arc, and the origin of their powers are vastly different. Regardless, I still don't understand why Kaine is treated like he has no morals just because he is willing to cross lines Peter hasn't. As mentioned, he showed morals in his fight against Ana Kravinoff and on numerous occasion he has showed fairly strong moral character, albeit a lot of it due to his respect for Peter himself. He is also now afraid to die, as seen in his battle with Flash, and as I stated he evidenced no physical superiority to anything Peter has done during this battle and as a matter of fact probably did worse than Peter did in his own battle against Flash.

#33 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kyle_Dornez: That's a fair point, although Miles didn't appear to take any serious damage and jumped back into battle to save Cap.

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#34 Posted by wr3h (396 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: To be fair Miles only won due to beginner's luck.