Scarlet Spider and Spiderman runs a gauntlet

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EnergizerBunny

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#1  Edited By EnergizerBunny
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Rules:

  • Scarlet Spider (Kaine) and Spiderman (both have Stealth suit) and are Morals Off
  • Location: Ravencroft
  • Every round they are healed healed
  • 4 Rounds

Round 1: Hawkeye and Falcon (Standard Gear for both)

Round 1.5: Captain America and Batman

Round 2: Taskmaster, Deathstroke and Wolverine (Pre Cornel)

Round 3: Bloodlusted Agent Venom

Round 4: Gray Hulk and Red Hulk

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BeaconofStrength

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#2  Edited By BeaconofStrength

May stop at 2.

Stops at 3.

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laflux

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Stops at 4.

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OreoAssassin

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2 or 3

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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laflux

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2 or 3

Don't see how they stop at 2. 3 can honestly go either way.

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nefarious

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R3.

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dondave

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Stop at 3

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chaos911

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Why not make round 1.5 round 2? Anyways probably stop at 3 or 4

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OreoAssassin

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@laflux: Logan and Kaine will lock horns at the sight of eachother. Morals off and with a stealth suit in play will give Kaine a 7/10+ majority but in a tough fight. Slade and Tony both on Peter is tough. While he is morls off i dont see Pete taking a majority, more like 50-50 (or even 6/10 Pete). The Spider duo is a huge threat, and morals off/stealth suits are just icing on the cake but the three skilled and deadly street levelers they're up against can potentially stop them. Thats why they could stop at 2 IMO. Round 3 is a different story. The Spiders honestly do not have the damage output the put Flash down while Flash can one-shot with blades and fists.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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Stops at 4 however i could see them could clear tbh

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OreoAssassin

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jashro44

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With the stealth suit the only ones who have a way of even detecting them are wolverine and maybe deathstroke (All though I doubt it). I think Kaine can handle deathstroke and Peter can handle logan. Kaine can stab red hulk to death but not sure if they can put down grey hulk and I guess they can tag the spiders using area of effect.

I'm thinking 4.

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Stormdriven

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Round 4

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GraniteSoldier

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I don't honestly see what they ha en to put Flash down, morals on or off. They could potentially pull it off in a long fight, but Venom's healing and their lack of healing G is going great to be a factor the longer the fight goes. Should stop at 3, definitely at 4.

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linsanel_Doctor

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They don't clear

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JackJack390

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Probably stops at 2, certainly stops at 3

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Quickfingers26

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No matter how I try to reason this... they stop at 4. Two Hulks is too many.

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christianrapper

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I don't honestly see what they ha en to put Flash down, morals on or off. They could potentially pull it off in a long fight, but Venom's healing and their lack of healing G is going great to be a factor the longer the fight goes. Should stop at 3, definitely at 4.a

don't venom and kaine have about the same stats?

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OreoAssassin

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@christianrapper: Venom is stronger, more durable, has a healing factor, more versatile, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Kaine only has speed really

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GraniteSoldier

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@christianrapper: Kaine is only really superior in speed, and even they they are on the same tier. Flash out classes him everywhere else, and has taken blows from Red Hulk and Ironclad, two 100 tonners or near 100 tonners, and not been KO'd.

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Wolverine008

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2 or 3.

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Night4345

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Stops at 3.

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laflux

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I don't honestly see what they ha en to put Flash down, morals on or off. They could potentially pull it off in a long fight, but Venom's healing and their lack of healing G is going great to be a factor the longer the fight goes. Should stop at 3, definitely at 4.

Stab him in the face. They are both faster and the Stealth Suit will make it even more difficult for Flash to tag them.

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OreoAssassin

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#25  Edited By OreoAssassin

@laflux: Dont see how Kaines stinger would work. Flash has had no trouble with blades before, even the symbiote can hold his whole body together if needed. Kaines stingers wouldnt have much affect and to be honest i dont see how he can even get that close to Flash

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Young_Murloc

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they wont have any problems until Flash, the only round they lose is against the Hulks.

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laflux

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@laflux: Dont see how Kaines stinger would work. Flash has had no trouble with blades before, even the symbiote can hold his whole body together if needed. Kaines stingers wouldnt have much affect and to be honest i dont see how he can even get that close to Flash

He hasn't been stabbed in the face before. Kaine stabbed him through the jaw but it didn't penetrate his skull. And why couldn't they get close to flash? Others have done so....

Again Round 3 is tough, but the team have the capabilities to win.

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patrat18

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2-3 or 4.

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GraniteSoldier

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#29  Edited By GraniteSoldier

@laflux: How's that any different than getting shot in the face? Or getting slashed by Carnage or Toxin? Didn't do much against Carnage when Kaine slashed open his head. Morals off also doesn't mean "smarter". Kaine makes poor use of his stingers and stealth suit.

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laflux

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@laflux: How's that any different than getting shot in the face? Or getting slashed by Carnage or Toxin? Didn't do much against Carnage when Kaine slashed open his head. Morals off also doesn't mean "smarter". Kaine makes poor use of his stingers and stealth suit.

Being shot with a bullet<<Struck with a stinger in the head from a 20-30 tonner, especially if those Stingers are toxic. Toxin impaled him with his blades, rather than puncture him in the face. Carnage's feats are not transferable to Flash. He is the superior symbiote. Kaine makes poor use of his Stealth suit, but stingers I would disagree with- Kaine tends to draw them when he has his morals laxed. Furthermore, having morals laxed allows Kaine to tap into the Other, further increasing his stats.

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OreoAssassin

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#31  Edited By OreoAssassin

@laflux: That wasnt a vital area and that was when Flash was struggling to gain control after vulking out. Others when Flash is in in character. Flash is bloodlusted here. Blades will be out and whoever goes near him is getting decapitated

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GraniteSoldier

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@laflux: If Other was allowed, I'm pretty sure it'd be stated. Besides that's more "bloodlusted" than simply morals off. Toxin had slashed Flash in the face, and it didn't do much. So had Carnage. The impalement is separate all together. It's not totally unrelated since Flash has shown healing on the same degree as both Carnage and Toxin. So yes while Carnage is a superior symbiote there's nothing in this new healing that's shown up in the last few years to suggest that area of the symbiote is superior. Strength, speed, resistance? Sure we've seen it. Healing? No. So to say it's superior simply because everything else is is ABC.

Kaine also makes poor use of his stingers. He didn't use them on Kraven, hardly used them on the Lobos, only used them once on Flash despite "fighting for his life", and didn't even use them consistently against Carnage.

Kaine does not make effective use of them.

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laflux

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@laflux: That wasnt a vital area and that was when Flash was struggling to gain control after vulking out. Others when Flash is in in character. Flash is bloodlusted here. Blades will be out and whoever goes near him is getting decapitated

That's what I'm saying. Flash only got stabbed through the jaw- so saying he's will tanked being stabbed in the head is faulty. Of course Flash is more impressive now but both of the Spiders are faster than him, they can dodge him.

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OreoAssassin

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@laflux: Hes been slashed by Cletus and Brock in the face ( as granite said) and has healed. Carnage and Toxins attacks are far stronger than Kaines stingers. And Flash is close to their speed level. Hes shown many speed feats tl prove it. While he isnt Kaine or Peters level, hes not far behind

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reaverlation

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#35  Edited By reaverlation

@jashro44 said:

With the stealth suit the only ones who have a way of even detecting them are wolverine and maybe deathstroke (All though I doubt it). I think Kaine can handle deathstroke and Peter can handle logan. Kaine can stab red hulk to death but not sure if they can put down grey hulk and I guess they can tag the spiders using area of effect.

I'm thinking 4.

Well Bruce found J'onn sneaking up on him while J'onn was invisible :/

I'll say 2

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GraniteSoldier

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#36  Edited By GraniteSoldier

@laflux: To say they can easily dodge him is an underestimation. Both have been tagged by slower characters and Flash has tagged faster. Even if they are faster he isn't dumb. Spider-Man was easily web pulled in his one run in with Flash, negating his speed. He was also rushed by Flash in the same fight. Sure it was before WOTS, so Peter will do better, but Flash can get a hold of him. Kaine? He's a brawler who takes as much as he dishes out half the time. Wolverine nailed him, so can Thompson.

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jashro44

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@jashro44 said:

With the stealth suit the only ones who have a way of even detecting them are wolverine and maybe deathstroke (All though I doubt it). I think Kaine can handle deathstroke and Peter can handle logan. Kaine can stab red hulk to death but not sure if they can put down grey hulk and I guess they can tag the spiders using area of effect.

I'm thinking 4.

Well Bruce found J'onn sneaking up on him while J'onn was invisible :/

I'll say 2

It warps both sound and light. He has no way to detect them. Infrared doesn't work on the stealth suit either.

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reaverlation

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@jashro44: Actually it was more of Bruce detected J'onn through hearing him breathe

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laflux

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@laflux: If Other was allowed, I'm pretty sure it'd be stated. Besides that's more "bloodlusted" than simply morals off. Toxin had slashed Flash in the face, and it didn't do much. So had Carnage. The impalement is separate all together. It's not totally unrelated since Flash has shown healing on the same degree as both Carnage and Toxin. So yes while Carnage is a superior symbiote there's nothing in this new healing that's shown up in the last few years to suggest that area of the symbiote is superior. Strength, speed, resistance? Sure we've seen it. Healing? No. So to say it's superior simply because everything else is is ABC.

Kaine also makes poor use of his stingers. He didn't use them on Kraven, hardly used them on the Lobos, only used them once on Flash despite "fighting for his life", and didn't even use them consistently against Carnage.

Kaine does not make effective use of them.

Eh, Kaine has tapped into the Other despite not being morals off. He was staging a fight with Wolverine, when he got slashed, he drew into his powers. When Jackal had him trapped in the chains designed to hold Peter, he tapped into the Other and that allowed him to break them (he eyes started to glow). When Arcelely tried to read his mind, and Kaine perceived it as a threat, The Other drove her out of her mind. IMO the OP doesn't have to state it, The Other is always there for Kaine to draw upon without fully becoming a were-spider.

I would appriciate scans of Flash being stabbed in the face. If he's tanked it, then yeah he beats the spiders. Otherwise, I would make the counterpoint that assuming Flash has equivocal healing to the superior symbiotes is faultly, even if Flash has similar feats when each Symbiote is suppossed to get progressively better with each new birth. In anycase Carnage with Cletus inside survived by ripped in two....by sentry......in space. That trumps anything Flash has done IMO healing wise.

He's made better use of them, since dying and resurrecting TBH. And against Kraven he was confused and drugged. Detailed analysis of his battle choices there is rather unfair. Plus he's already fought Venom. He'll know Flash can soak blunt tramua and go for the claws. He's not stupid. If Flash has feats of tanking stab wounds in the face, then he wins no problem.

Otherwise I don't see why Peter can't use his superior speed and fighting skills to keep Flash occupied while Kaine goes in for the kill.

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GraniteSoldier

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#40  Edited By GraniteSoldier

@laflux: He's not stupid...yet punched Wolverine in the head whIle he has Peter's full knowledge about Wolverine. And he's "tapped" the Other, but what about those feats is quantifiable? We know he got a bit stronger (maybe) against Jackal, and we know he said "prey" then stabbed Logan. That doesn't prove much.

Also Venom got slashed, not stabbed, but has had his head half destroyed and reformed it. And survived the Secret Avengers space station exploding in space, and then proceeding to walk about it in flames...In space.

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laflux

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@laflux: To say they can easily dodge him is an underestimation. Both have been tagged by slower characters and Flash has tagged faster. Even if they are faster he isn't dumb. Spider-Man was easily web pulled in his one run in with Flash, negating his speed. He was also rushed by Flash in the same fight. Sure it was before WOTS, so Peter will do better, but Flash can get a hold of him. Kaine? He's a brawler who takes as much as he dishes out half the time. Wolverine nailed him, so can Thompson.

Better is an understatement. Before Way of the Spider, a Mind-Controlled Spider-Woman was handing him his a$$. Post Way of the Spider, Spider-Man beat a mind-controlled Spider-Woman in 2 panels. Even if we say that Flash will null Peter's Spider-Sense, Spider-Man blitzes 3 people with Spider-Powers and a spider-senses in one panel. That one feat is considerably above anything Flash has done combat speed once. Not to mention WOTS is specifically designed for fighting people with spider powers

Also Peter was basically brawling with Flash. In one scan he jumps right in the air and basicially telegraphs a punch to Flash. Flash tagging a Spider-Senseless, irrational Peter Parker sans WOTS the Spider after being hit multiple times isn't really impressive.

Also in Flash's defence he was weakened from fighting Kraven, didn't get along with Venom etc. The Fight is a ropey benchmark for saying how easily Peter will tag Flash and Vice versa because of all the mitigating factors involved TBH.

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jashro44

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#42  Edited By jashro44

@jashro44: Actually it was more of Bruce detected J'onn through hearing him breathe

Which is a non issue with the stealth suit since it warps sound.

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laflux

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@laflux: He's not stupid...yet punched Wolverine in the head whIle he has Peter's full knowledge about Wolverine. And he's "tapped" the Other, but what about those feats is quantifiable? We know he got a bit stronger (maybe) against Jackal, and we know he said "prey" then stabbed Logan. That doesn't prove much.

Also Venom got slashed, not stabbed, but has had his head half destroyed and reformed it. And survived the Secret Avengers space station exploding in space, and then proceeding to walk about it in flames...In space.

Again if he had his head slashed in Two and reformed it, then fair enough (though I would appriciate scans >:) ). But the Space Station feat isn't as impressive. We know Flash has an impressive resistance to explosives and fire, so he wasn't likely damaged that much. Its more a durability feat than actually being dismembered by a Class 100 powerhouse and still surviving in space.

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laflux

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@granitesoldier:

EDIT- Ben Reilly first appeared in 1975, quite a few years before Wolverine first had his graveyard fight with Peter. When the Clone Wars was revisited in the 1990's and further expanded on during the Pain of Kaine arc just after OMD/BND, it would be revealed that Kaine was cloned first but then rejected for being a failure. So its likely Kaine had any shared memories in dealing with Logan. Plus the fight was staged.

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reaverlation

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@jashro44: That's Kaine right? You gave me an idea with that...

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senglord

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#46  Edited By senglord

@jashro44: Bruce was also able to sense the ionization of the air when J'onn. Was invisible and intangible. But it was unknown how long J'onn was there.

I read the Venom comic. And browsed the Scarlet Spider comic. The team can clear if they fight smart. Kaine is a clone of Peter, with whatever innate intellect Peter was born with. He may not use it most of the time, but it is there.

PS. Is there any reason that Batman and Captain America are even in a fight like this beyond spite? batman and cap might be able to tell where a stationary target is by the shift in air pressure, or even a bullet fired behind them. But there will not be much that they can do when the spiders just web them up when their guard is down.

The scan also indicates that the stealth suit only bends a finite spectrum of light, and shifts the wavelengths of sound. Otherwise, there would be no way to put on a pair of goggles to see the suit. Though in a fight, figuring out what wavelengths would reveal a stealth attacker...would not end well.

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GraniteSoldier

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#47  Edited By GraniteSoldier

@laflux said:

Better is an understatement. Before Way of the Spider, a Mind-Controlled Spider-Woman was handing him his a$$. Post Way of the Spider, Spider-Man beat a mind-controlled Spider-Woman in 2 panels. Even if we say that Flash will null Peter's Spider-Sense, Spider-Man blitzes 3 people with Spider-Powers and a spider-senses in one panel. That one feat is considerably above anything Flash has done combat speed once. Not to mention WOTS is specifically designed for fighting people with spider powers

Also Peter was basically brawling with Flash. In one scan he jumps right in the air and basicially telegraphs a punch to Flash. Flash tagging a Spider-Senseless, irrational Peter Parker sans WOTS the Spider after being hit multiple times isn't really impressive.

Also in Flash's defence he was weakened from fighting Kraven, didn't get along with Venom etc. The Fight is a ropey benchmark for saying how easily Peter will tag Flash and Vice versa because of all the mitigating factors involved TBH.

Peter is faster, feat based, no doubt. However Peter was GUNNING for Flash in that fight, whereas Flash was tired/beaten up/fighting the symbiote/etc. It shows he can, in fact, get to Peter. That's all it really needs to demonstrate. Peter is going hard and Flash isn't, yet he can web him twice, and rush him. Is it the BEST example? Perhaps not, but it proves Flash can in fact get to Peter, especially if you consider his showings against Carnage and Toxin (two guys faster than all three).

@laflux said:

Again if he had his head slashed in Two and reformed it, then fair enough (though I would appriciate scans >:) ). But the Space Station feat isn't as impressive. We know Flash has an impressive resistance to explosives and fire, so he wasn't likely damaged that much. Its more a durability feat than actually being dismembered by a Class 100 powerhouse and still surviving in space.

I don't have a scanner, so I'm looking for the scan. He isn't slashed or stabbed there, but his head from the nose up is blasted off. This would have the same effect as being stabbed or slashed in the head, as the physical result is likely the same. It's issue 36, page 20, but I'll keep looking for it online. Also being ripped in half and surviving in space with a fully-functional symbiote vs surviving in space with a stunned symbiote rate about the same to me.

@laflux said:

@granitesoldier:

EDIT- Ben Reilly first appeared in 1975, quite a few years before Wolverine first had his graveyard fight with Peter. When the Clone Wars was revisited in the 1990's and further expanded on during the Pain of Kaine arc just after OMD/BND, it would be revealed that Kaine was cloned first but then rejected for being a failure. So its likely Kaine had any shared memories in dealing with Logan. Plus the fight was staged.

Sure the fight was staged, but he got a damn file on Logan and still almost broke his hand. He should've pulled the punch better? Who knows. What about his routine neglect of his webs? And again he's proven time and again he's fine with killing, so I question why he doesn't always have his stingers popped in a fight. Wolverine doesn't pop and sheath his claws all the time. This isn't to say kaine is stupid, but he is not the smartest guy in a fight and doesn't use all of his tools to their greatest effectiveness. As opposed to Peter who regularly uses everything at his disposal.

The threat in here is Peter, and if Flash can neutralize Peter first he's going to mop up Kaine.

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jashro44

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@jashro44: That's Kaine right? You gave me an idea with that...

Thats Peter wearing the stealth suit. He gives it to kaine later.

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GraniteSoldier

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#49  Edited By GraniteSoldier

@jashro44 said:

@reaverlation said:

@jashro44: That's Kaine right? You gave me an idea with that...

Thats Peter wearing the stealth suit. He gives it to kaine later.

I often wonder why Peter didn't just make another. Maybe they figured it'd make things too easy for him? I don't know.

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laflux

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