Savage Opress vs Qui-Gon Jinn

Opress and Maul are comparable in abilities. Maul already won and Qui-Gon had Obi-Wan for backup (for the majority of the duel, anyway). I don't see this being any different.

@JediXMan: Agreed.

Not to mention that the first time Maul fought Qui-Gon, the old Jedi looked about ready to have a heart-attack afterwards, and Maul wasn't even using a double-bladed lightsaber.

Savage wins just about every time.

@JediXMan said:

Opress and Maul are comparable in abilities. Maul already won and Qui-Gon had Obi-Wan for backup (for the majority of the duel, anyway). I don't see this being any different.

Exactly.

In his prime, Qui-Gon has stalemated Mace Windu (not in his prime), but that really wouldn't mean much since it's off-panel.

@shroudofsorrow said:

@JediXMan: Agreed.

Not to mention that the first time Maul fought Qui-Gon, the old Jedi looked about ready to have a heart-attack afterwards, and Maul wasn't even using a double-bladed lightsaber.

Savage wins just about every time.

How come Kit Fisto would defeat Savage? Or Plo Koon? Possibily Obi-Wan (if it was a solo duel). Mace would defeat him, I think it's debatable if Shaak TI would defeat him..

So, he doesn't win "every time"

How come Kit Fisto would defeat Savage?

Or Plo Koon?

I think it's debatable if Shaak TI would defeat him..

@Silver2467 said:

With that said, Savage is not as good a combatant as Maul, and if he does win a majority, it would be a slight majority. Qui-Gon is a highly reputable swordsman. Losing to Maul, who outclases Savage in technical skill as well, it not a sufficient reason for Qui-Gon to lose to Opress, in my opinion.

He is, but he's not as good as of TPM. And again, his first fight with Maul left him looking absolutely terrible.

He is, but he's not as good as of TPM.

And again, his first fight with Maul left him looking absolutely terrible.

I'm generally going for Savage due to his TK, though that won't be used very often. But his saber skills aren't very lacking.

Considering my track record I don’t know why I’m even bothering to respond, but here goes:

@Silver2467 said:

Proof? Because more or less all of Qui-Gon's combat feats, which is to say everything that pronounces him a noteworthy duelist, occurred around TPM. It is true that he was somewhat more prone to fatigue, but that is more a result of Ataru than anything, as Ataru is notoriously physically demanding form. And despite that, Qui-Gon's physical power was sufficient to repeatedly run invisibly fast, fight fast enough to form shields out of his lightsaber blade, deflect torrents of blaster fire, and strike with enough force to stagger Maul (who has rather impressive strength feats himself).

The TPM novelization explicitly states that Qui-Gon is not as young as he used to be and that it is hampering his ability to fight Maul. He’s slower. Qui-Gon at his peak stalemated Mace Windu, which I don’t think TPM Darth Maul could really do. Isn’t Mace>>>TPM Maul? As far as I can tell Qui-Gon at his best>>>>Qui-Gon in TPM, who is still a capable lightsaber duelist but not as good due to his age beginning to get to him. The Novelization specifically states this to be a problem for him and it shows in the movie based on the scene I have already mentioned twice now.

@Silver2467 said:

And? Maul is just better than Qui-Gon. I fail to see why that matters considering Maul is just better than Savage too.

Because I personally see TPM Maul at being on roughly the same level as his brother. Maul has gotten more powerful as of The Clone Wars.

The TPM novelization explicitly states that Qui-Gon is not as young as he used to be and that it is hampering his ability to fight Maul. He’s slower. Qui-Gon at his peak stalemated Mace Windu, which I don’t think TPM Darth Maul could really do. Isn’t Mace>>>TPM Maul? As far as I can tell Qui-Gon at his best>>>>Qui-Gon in TPM, who is still a capable lightsaber duelist but not as good due to his age beginning to get to him. The Novelization specifically states this to be a problem for him and it shows in the movie based on the scene I have already mentioned twice now.

Because I personally see TPM Maul at being on roughly the same level as his brother. Maul has gotten more powerful as of The Clone Wars.

@Silver2467 said:

As I said, that can be attributed to Ataru more than anything. I have read TPM, and there was nothing about his skills being diminished, just his endurance. Even then, Qui-Gon's physical feats at the time still rival those of other peak Jedi. Do you have any proof that Qui-Gon was not able to duel evenly with Mace by the time of TPM? Where was ever stated when the two dueled one another? And, no, Mace is not significantly superior to Maul, only marginally.

I don't know where it was stated that Qui-Gon at the top of his game stalemated Mace Windu, but according to ShootingNova, whose opinions generally hold weight with me, he did.

@Silver2467 said:

More powerful, yes. More skilled? No. Maul's skill feats outweigh Savage's.

What is, according to you the difference between power and skill? Just curious. I was under the impression that CW Darth Maul was better than his TPM incarnation.

What are you guys talking about?

In their second rematch Obiwan defeated Maul and Opress at the same time after they killed a Jedi master and started to double team him, in the end he cut off Opress's arm and made the brothers retreat

I don't know where it was stated that Qui-Gon at the top of his game stalemated Mace Windu, but according to ShootingNova, whose opinions generally hold weight with me, he did.

What is, according to you the difference between power and skill? Just curious. I was under the impression that CW Darth Maul was better than his TPM incarnation.

What are you guys talking about?

In their second rematch Obiwan defeated Maul and Opress at the same time after they killed a Jedi master and started to double team him, in the end he cut off Opress's arm and made the brothers retreat

@Silver2467: the latest episode where Maul and his bro try to get an army of pirates but end up getting betrayed after they lose to obi wan.

@Silver2467:I think it was because he got really desperate, he used the force alot and was wielding two lightsabers when fighting them + it was very,very close quarters.

@Alice_Summers: The thing about that though, is that they we're pressing Obi-Wan back for the majority of the fight. Then, Obi-Wan managed to take off Savage Opress' arm (i think, mighta been a leg) anywho, then Obi-Wan seperated himself from the brothers. He certainly didn't win easily. If you even consider that a win. I don't think i would.

@JediXMan said:

Opress and Maul are comparable in abilities. Maul already won and Qui-Gon had Obi-Wan for backup (for the majority of the duel, anyway). I don't see this being any different.

Honestly, i simply disagree with this. Maul and Opress are comparable. But Maul is vastly superior. He defeated Savage in approximately five seconds.

Is Opress powerful? Yes. But is he powerful enough to kill Qui-Gon? I simply don't think so.

7/10-Jinn wins.

@JamesKM716: (Maul lost his leg by getting shot by the pirates as they ran away) I know definitely not with ease but regardless he won on a technically and like a BAMF!

@Alice_Summers: Yeah, but a win on a technicality isn't exactly applicable in this case.

@JamesKM716: why

@Alice_Summers: Because a technicality isn't likely to happen the majority of the time within the battles we're suggesting

@Silver2467 said:

@Alice_Summers: Are there any other contextual circumstances to that, or is it really that simple?

For one, Obi-Wan didn't beat Maul. He defeated Opress in the 2v1 (kicked in his knee then took off his arm), but Maul then used a force push to toss Obi-Wan down a hallway. Rumbling then cause debris to block the hallway and separate the two. Also, citing that one fight is a pretty flawed argument, especially seeing as it's by no means the only time Obi-Wan and Maul have battled in the show. In the Season 4 finale, Obi-Wan could barely stalemate Maul.

@JamesKM716: well than Opress should lose because he has significantly less experience no?

@k4tzm4n:Hey it was 2 v.s 1 Obi would have won eventually since he was already going to kill Opress when maul intervened.

@Alice_Summers said:

@k4tzm4n:Hey it was 2 v.s 1 Obi would have won eventually since he was already going to kill Opress when maul intervened.

There's nothing to support that Obi would have eventually won against Maul. Right when Obi took Opress's arm, Maul clearly began to unleash (as seen with his force push that sent him down an entire corridor) . Prior to this episode, they were evenly matched and Maul even had the advantage in their 1v1 in 'Revenge.' Point being: there's nothing in the program to prove that Obi-Wan would have definitively taken the victory at that point (the removing of Savage's arm).

That said, if you're simply saying "Obi-Wan can beat Opress," then yeah, I don't think anyone would dispute that.

@Silver2467 said:

@k4tzm4n: I see. So is this fight between Kenobi and Maul and Savage more of an example of his Soresu/defensive skills than anything? Because based on what you and James said, it sounds that way to me. Not that that would render it unimpressive, just more understandable. Of course, I haven't actually watched it yet; so I could be wrong.

I'll provide you with all of their encounters.

Maul/Opress vs Obi-Wan (4:00)

Maul/Opress vs Obi-Wan/Ventress:

Maul/Opress vs Obi:

@Alice_Summers: I would argue that, yes.

@Silver2467: So Maul's skill level is roughly the same. OK then. But then what does him being "more powerful" entail? If his skills are roughly the same, how is he "more powerful"?

Oh, and I noticed you changed your Avatar again. Nice choice too.

@Silver2467: So Maul's skill level is roughly the same. OK then. But then what does him being "more powerful" entail? If his skills are roughly the same, how is he "more powerful"?

Oh, and I noticed you changed your Avatar again. Nice choice too.

@Silver2467: Ah. That explains that.

@Silver2467 said:

TCW Maul has Choked Obi-Wan, collapsed ceilings, hurled back dozens of soldiers, etc.

He has also, for future reference, manipulated Republic shuttles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofA1j0Gcydw

^ Check the 17:54 mark.

Gonna break trend and say Qui-gon wins. Anyone who genuinely beleive Savage is close to Maul hasn't seen them fight (Savage has his arse handed to him)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qc2SF6RuXUw&client=mv-vf-uk&safesearch=always

And although Qui-gon loses also. It's worth noting he fights Maul when he's using his double bladed lightsaber. And that Maul is very likely amped (he knew he would be facing two jedi after all)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yHqdESArkqU&client=mv-vf-uk&safesearch=always

However if we consider Five things:

1) When Maul fought Qui with only one saber he didn't kill him (though he likely would)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DMylmOlot4g

2) Maul didn't want to kill Savage.

3) Savage lost to a possibly weaker version of Maul (Since he would logically have nearly half as many Midi-chlorians)

4) There is a slim possibility Qui knew that had to die for Anakin to be trained.

5) Qui gon specialises in an offencive saber style, whereas Savage doesn't specialise in any style (especially nothing defencive)

I think it's not a bad match up, but I'd give Qui the win.

Savage for a slight majority. Jinn is a better swordsman, but Savage is better in TK and physicality. Also, if Savage attacks attacks attacks, Qui would have a hard time defending, since Ataru isn't that good at defense. Qui is average at TK and he needs to concentrate to use it on a fight, and Savage would wreck him if he he to concentrate. Jinn's melee strikes would do nothing to Savage (unless he catches him off guard on the knee) and Jinn could tire out quickly due to having to leap around and evade Savage's strikes. Savage 6/10.

Given how badly Savage was stomped by Maul, leaning Qui-Gon.

Savage could win with his Force powers, though.

Savage.

Qui-Gon

Savage for a heavy Majority.

Qui Gon could not even deal with Maul without Obi Wan's help, and when Obi Wan was not there to help him when it mattered, he was skewered.

@sirfizzwhizz: wat?

Meh, I'm leaning Savage. Qui-Gon's style is ill-suited to face Savage.

Savage wins. If Maul, with only one blade, exhausted Qui-Gon in fifty seconds, Savage with two blades can do about the same.

Savage stomps, his strength is going to absolutely trash Gon's stamina

Savage for a solid victory

Savage would win, although I don't think it'll be easy for him.

Savage would win convincingly, but Qui-Gon Jinn will make him work for it.

It'll most likely end once Jinn begins to wear out and then Savage will be all over him.

Bump!

I'd actually side with Qui-Gon, these days.

If it was sabers only I would side with Jinn possibly. Depends if Jinn can find a flaw in Savage before he tires, he was able to discern even Mauls unpredictable style fast enough to unsettle him and make him throw away all of his old moves. I can't see Savage being that prudent.

All-out Savage wins with his force abilities.

Savage.