Savage Dragon vs Black Panther

Location: Central Park.

No prep time. Both are in their prime.

Win via K.O. or Death. Standard gear.

Both are in character.

So is Savage Dragon more durable than Namor? Does he have a counter for black panther being invisible?

@wyldsong is doing a CAV with him against She Hulk.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-savage-dragon-wyldsong-vs-she-hulk-cosmicallya-1652072/

He's bulletproof, but a Knife weilded by someone with superhuman strength can go through his skin. I wager he's less durable tbh.

...

Again at the risk of igniting the ire of people who think BP is overpowered, I'm just going to say he goes invisible/teleports behind Savage Dragon and stabs him in the head with an energy dagger. GG :p

BP takes this.

Panther IMO

dragon

To be honest, my Namor reading has been very light, so I don't know the upper limits of his durability to compare. The only counter for invisibility he has would be a kind of shockwave punch I guess, but he has no way to really sense or see him, not without prep.

He excels in tanking blunt force trauma from class 100s and up, and his pain tolerance is exceedingly damn high. As for whether the energy dagger trick would work or not, I'd have to ask the highest level of creature BP has affected with it. Dragon is pretty darn hard to effectively kill and take down. Though like I said, he has no way to spot BP while invisible, so that and the teleporting tech are big pluses in BPs column.

But the knife thing though, bear in mind that the bio is kind of old, and Dragon has changed a bit. I would say it depends on the knife and the strength level of the one wielding it:

That guy is a bullet proof tonner with a special blade arm, which was previously able to pierce Dragon, but is now unable to as seen. His body tends to adapt to things throughout the story.

I think this is a little unfair for BP. Savage Dragon is comparable to Nampr in physicals, but he uses his strength and durability with a hundred times more skill than Namor has ever shown. In a single issue of SD, he might KO up to a dozen superhuman characters with Namor level physicals in the course of a day. (Maybe not quite Namor levels, but still higher physical levels then your basic street level super heroes)

Don't get me wrong, BP has an obvious skill adavantage here, but not by the amount he had in his fight with Namor. Savage Dragon was trained by the most skilled character in the Image universe (or at least SD's corner of it). Dart was able to hold her own against Mighty Man for a good long fight, who would give Namor a good fight too, and this character trained SD in hand to hand, who already had an inherit skill from his previous life he had no memory of.

The other advantage Savage Dragon has is his ability to fight, even if he gets damaged, by both his amazing ability to survive what should be fatal wounds, and his healing factor.

Savage Dragon was impaled to the point his entire torso was basically a giant whole, and he had his arm blasted off in an energy blast, and he still managed to drag himself to the streets, where he managed to solo and KO two superhuman characters (their names are slipping me right now, as I've taken a short SD break the last month), and this is all while his vital organs are either damaged, or completely gone. These characters were basically jobbers in SD's series for SD to pound on, but he still did this with a giant hole where his torso should be.

So even when BP does damage, it probably won't be enough. If it wasn't for this ability of SD, it would be more fair, as BP might be able to get more shots in on SD then vice versa, although even that won't be real easy, with SD's speed and skill making it a challenge still, even though I do think BPbhas an obvious advantage here. On the flip side, SD might be able to KO BP with a single punch, or at least not many punches.

This really might be considered spite, but with some of BP's more exotic tech, maybe there's a nice way for BP to pull off a win or two. Savage Dragon is just in another weight class, and he's at the top end for skill in his weight class that is full of mostly just brawler/bruisers. BP can certainly fight out of his weight class, as he's shown with Namor and several other characters, but I think this is too much of a stretch with an elite mid tier character like SD.

BP with ease. Invisibility+teleportation+energy daggers gg.

And I doubt SD can KO BP in one punch when Namor and Terrax can't.

This is a good Match up . I dont see BP really defeating savage dragon.

I really do not remember much about Savage Dragon at all maybe read about 30 of his comics. Watch the cartoon growing up that is it. Would love to see a Savage Dragon expert.

T'Challa

@darkraiden: I don't think comparing Savage Dragon to Namor's striking is completely fair, even though they are both similar in physical strength, and probably even an advantage to Namor in a few select circumstances, but consistently they are similar, Namor simply doesn't have the skill level Savage Dragon does.

If you have two people who are similar strength levels punch someone, but one is a trained boxer, the trained boxer is way more likely to land the KO.

This isn't just implied skill through training that I'm basing this argument off of though. Namor has KO'd what, half a dozen named characters? Maybe more, but not without serious effort, and most of his fights end without even a clear winner.

Now look at Savage Dragon. His very first day as a cop, he KO's somewhere around 20 named characters, and most of them are one-hit KO's. All of these characters are superhuman, and pretty much all of them are at the very least bullet proof. Throughout Savage Dragon's run, he KO's literally well over a hundred named characters (although the some are the same characters on more then one occasion). I just think Savage Dragon knows how to throw a punch better then Namor, because he has had much more success then Namor ever has, or just about any character at that rate. He's KO'd characters like Super Patriot,bBedrock, etc... Who all have durability equal to, or much higher then BP's. There may not be another character in comics who has as many KO's as Savage Dragon does on named characters. Sure, a lot of them are just jobbers for Dragon to take down, but some like Super Patriot and Bedrock are legitimate bad@sses who beat basically every other character in Image Chicago besides Savage Dragon.

Terrax though, is a whole other thing that I'm not going to touch. I think most people would agree that Terrax would beat BP with one shot if not jobbing. If we are assuming that Terrax is too weak to KO BP, then I don't think BP is street level anymore, That's Hulk level fights if Terrax can't put him down.

Namor's KO'd more durable people though. At least in his prime. Like Hulk. As for Terrax, he'd win, but BP has taken hits from Hulk, Namor, Terrax, Surfer (that was energy), Iron Man, etc. It seems pretty consistent.

His energy Daggers have phased through Adamantuim and also gone through the neck of a Alternate reality Terrax.

I think your being a bit Unfair to Namor. He's beaten Luke Cage pretty comfortably, under Bendis (who writes Cage to a high level), and Luke Cage is a comfortable 25 tonner, with quite a few feats surpassing 50 tonnes, and has beaten foes like Ironclad, Vision and even Thing (much to the annoyance of @god_spawn :p ). Even if Namor isn't on the level of Hulk anymore, he is still a solid Mid Level Brick, and well above 100 tonnes.

As for BP himself, he regularly fights Killermonger, who is a 10 tonner, and has done so without his Vibranuim armor. He's also beaten Man-Ape and snapped the neck of Sirus Weredog, who are both 10 tonners. Of Course, this not as a comparison to Savage Dragon, who is fare more menacing than those character, but it shows that BP can handle guys with a big strength advantage, and with energy daggers, it makes things easier for him.

If I were less tired, you would get scans with this, but as is, I am just going to drop a little intel, and if I can finish up some CaV postings, I'll come back with scans. Dragon has a pretty insane healing factor that has brought him back from the dead, healed him from having half his brain eaten (his blood was also drained so they had to put more blood back into his body to kick start it), healed him from having his lower torso blown off, changed him back to normal from being transmuted completely to chocolate and so on. His healing factor plays into his adaptive system, where quite often we will see attacks from villains that previously affected him, were no longer able to do so. A good example would be a villain that in one encounter was able to use mind control on Dragon, yet in a future encounter, Dragon was resistant, then later immune to the mind control, which was attributed to his healing factor.

Where this becomes really pertinent here, besides the actual ability of an attack to keep Dragon down, is the fact that he has adapted to a variety of energy attacks. The best example comes from Overlord. Overlord in their first, full out fight, was able to use an energy attack that disintegrated his hand, and then blew a giant hole through Dragon's torso (neither of which actually killed Dragon). In a later encounter, Overlord went a little more extreme with the energy attack, and let out a blast that completely vaporized the top several floors of a building, and completely disintegrated everyone on those floors, excluding himself...and Dragon. Dragon's clothing was destroyed, and his outer layer of skin was burned off, but Dragon was otherwise unaffected, and soundly defeated Overlord. Then, in further encounters with another utilizing the Overlord armor, Dragon was completely unaffected by the energy attacks the armor produced. He was also once upon a time placed in a chamber where they tried to gas him, but more importantly for this topic, utilized lasers and electricity on him in an effort to kill him. It pissed Dragon off, and he busted out, and put the beat down on all of the villains in the room, no damage done to his body from the gas/lasers/electricity.

His durability and pain tolerance are pretty insane. He has fought with holes through his torso, limbs torn/blasted off (using his arm as a club once), and so on. He can float comfortably in the depths of space without issue, tanks explosions from grenades to building leveling explosives, and can comfortably swim through and maneuver the same pressurized depths of the ocean that Namor and his ilk can (though Dragon does eventually need to breath, but he can hold his breath for a very, very long time). His durability to blunt damage is pretty much off the charts, as he can and has tanked damage from 90 to 100 to 150 to 200+ tonners, and was able to lay out hits that were able to rock such beings.

I should also point out that there was a character by the name of Grip that Dragon once faced. Grip is basically able to cause things to explode by touching them (he can be as precise as just a hand or head, or can make a whole body/object go "boom"). Grip tried this on Dragon's head, and at best, it gave Dragon a headache and singed some skin, as Grip was unable to blow up Dragon's head. Dragon has a pretty tough molecular structure that only got tougher as the years went on, then you couple that with durability, pain tolerance, healing factor, energy resistance, and an adaptable physiology...it just leaves me with questions on the energy daggers, and just how viable the attack would actually be on Dragon.

@wyldsong: That's actually pretty impressive.

Just reading his bio, most wouldn't think such about Dragon. Most respect threads on him stop before like issue 20 of his series, and he has had a long, long run. I think Dragon himself officially "retired" around maybe issue 180-190 or so, where his son took over. Then you have to factor in all of the mini-series and so on, and he has had a good long run to pull feats from. I think the bio that is floating around about Dragon was written within maybe the first 20 issues or so, and doesn't even really touch on his healing factor/adaptive ability.

Dragon is like a combination of Spider-Man, Bullseye, Wolverine, Joe Fixit, and John McClane (who Larsen modeled his personality after). He is pretty bad arse.

I like Dragons pain tolerance. But after seeing what TChalla did to Incredible Hulk. I’m definitely taking Panther here.