Sauron vs Voldemort

I don’t know why I thought of this but Sauron ftw-he CAN NOT BE KILLED for he is a Maia (Dark Angel) who’ll exist in spirit if he somehow manages to die. Not to mention the Ring has to be destroyed in Mount Doom.

Voldemort is simply a skilled wizard who happends to spread his soul across various objects that are nothing like the One Ring. Not to mention his wizarding skills wouldn’t last against Sauron’s black magic (DOESN’T EVEN NEED A WAND OR INCANTATIONS!)

Perhaps Saruman vs Voldemort-oh wait, he’d still lose XD

Voldmort is powerful but he is still just a mortal wizard, Sauron is immortal and would kill Voldmort in a battle, yes Voldmort would come back, but his hocruxes are limited.  Sauron would just kill him again if he was foolish enough to battle him again.  Sauron is not a wizard, he is more of a devil which powers are only less than a god.

Bump :) i want to hear more on this thread :)

Suaron's magic is far stronger than Voldemort.

Voldemort's hocruxes only mean he will be re-born if he dies. Sauron cannot die unless the ring is thrown in the vulcano.

Sauron is a tank with power beyond belief. Voldemort is a mere, pale white, noseless old man who was defeated by a 2-year old baby, and is complelety useless without his wand.

I agree with that^^^^ statement.

Well originally Sauron was Maia (Wizard like Gandalf) before he was corrupted by Morgoth. So its safe to assume he has a good grounding in magic. During the 1st age (The Silmarillion) he was also able to change into multiple creatures Werewolves, giant serpents and a vampires being among them. during the 2end Age (Children Of Hurin or Unfinished Tales I can't remember which book was second age) Morgoth had given him the ability to alter the substance of the world around him (low level reality warping). It was assumed he still retained these abilities by the 3rd age (Lord Of The Rings) but simply chose not to use them until Isildur separated him from the ring rendering him powerless. Imo he's capable of everything Voldemort is and more so i'll have to go for Sauron

I'm bais in favor of Sauron, mainly because he's cooler, and i didnt like the Harry potter movies. But Sauron is indeed stronger. I keep seeing how Voldemort is put in the same league as SAURON so i'm waiting to see if someone can make a good point on Voldemort

Sauron can't even touch Voldy.All Voldy has to is read his mind,summon the ring and dump it.It'll take him maybe 30 seconds at most.

Voldemort wins. Easily.

Okay, so why do you say Voldemort wins?

@nickthedevil said:

Okay, so why do you say Voldemort wins?

Voldemort has seven horcruxes. Sauron would first have to find all 7 of them just to be able to kill Voldy. Voldy only has to find the one ring and destroy it.

Granted... But even then, to destroy it voldemort would have to travel to mordor. in the book Sauron has managed to gain and sustain temporarily corpreal form and thats just id he loses the ring... Also, Sauron has demi-god level mastery of magic.

Didnt Voldemort lose his corpreal body to mediocre magic users?

@nickthedevil said:

Didnt Voldemort lose his corpreal body to mediocre magic users?

He lost it to plot.

@CitizenBane: You could argue that a Sauron getting his finger cut of was also plot convenience if you take into account everything he's been capable of over the 3 ages. Shapeshifting, mind control, low level reality warping, mastery of black magic etc....

doesn't Voldemort have the Havada Dabra curse or the Expelliarmus charm for his advantage.

This is true. And all of Sauron's feats were before he had the One Ring... In it, the elf kings said that his "...power has become thrice what it once was!".

@Hazlenaut said:

doesn't Voldemort have the Havada Dabra curse or the Expelliarmus charm for his advantage.

Yeah... Expelleriamus isn't going to do zilch...

@DeadpoolvIronFist: Yea, watch out he will, because he's so ,,noble" to do it LOL. He would took it for himself and in this way Sauron would have better chance of destroying Voldemort or even enslaved him. It takes time to master the ring (and we don't even know if he has enough strength to do it, it requires iron will, and Voldemort is a bit psychologically unstable). And after all the ring is an extension of Sauron's will, and he can affect it at distance (why do you think it changes shape, weight, put itself on finger of a unwilling person, or abandons it's possesor, it's all in one purpose to return to it's master).

@entropy_aegis: Legilimency does not work that way. It doesn't allow to read mind, only see images, recognize lies (which can be deceived by occlumency). Really, in mental powers Sauron is much better than you think. Even simple conversation with him is dangerous as Pippin experienced first hand. He could mind control his entire armies, without his will driving them they were less organized:

,,...his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain. At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster then the winds, the Nazgûl, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom.’" Magic in Middle Earth is different than in Harry Potter series, but powerful. Sauron was known well for his magic ,,tricks" ;)

,,Sauron was now a sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms, foul in wisdom, cruel in strength, misshaping what he touched, twisting what he ruled, lord of werewolves; his dominion was torment. He took Minas Tirith by assault, for a dark cloud of fear fell upon those that defended it; and Orodreth was driven out, and fled to Nargothrond. Then Sauron made it into a watchtower for Morgoth, a stronghold of evil and a menace; and the fair island of Tol Sirion became accursed, and it was called Tol-in-Gaurhoth, the Isle of Werewolves. No living creature could pass through that vale that Sauron did not espy from the tower where he sat.’" He single-handedly took over strong fortress using only his magic (affecting feelings).

‘On a time in autumn [Gorlim] came in the dusk of evening, and drawing near [his house] he saw as he thought a light in the window; and coming warily he looked within. There he saw Eilinel, and her face was worn with grief and hunger, and it seemed to him that he heard her voice lamenting that he had forsaken her. But even as he cried aloud the light was blown out in the wind; wolves howled, and on his shoulder he felt suddenly the heavy hands of Sauron’s hunters.

…

Now Gorlim would have drawn back, but daunted by the eyes of Sauron he told at last all that he would know. Then Sauron laughed; and he mocked Gorlim, and revealed to him that he had only seen a phantom devised by wizardry to entrap him; for Eilinel was dead. “Nonetheless I will grant thy prayer,” said Sauron; “and though shalt go to Eilinel, and be set free of my service.” Then he put him cruelly to death.’ master of phantoms indeed, and just by looking at his prisoner (power of the Eye of Sauron allows for mind tricks, paralyzing oponents, magically causing pain) he got all information he wanted.

Sauron wins. His magic simply destroys Voldemort's.

If Tom tries Legilimency on Sauron, he would resist/redirect it back at Voldemort, discover his Horcruxes, and destroy therm.

Voldenmort

If it's the book version of Sauron he most definitely wins, but if it's the movie version. Then Sauron has zero feats except the very first scene, which something Voldemort can handle easily. So I give it to Voldemort if it's film Sauron.

@DeadpoolvIronFist said:

Voldemort wins. Easily.

Oh please explain this lol

I don't understand why so many of you insist that Voldemort just auto win against him. Main argument is as I see Voldemort's seven horcruxes, well besides containing parts of his soul and protecting him from final death they don'tdo much (and of course still he would be forced to semi spiritual state if something hits him hard enough, just like killing curse backfire on him). With Sauron cas is never easy, first in humanoid form Sauron is of much bigger stature even than Numenoreans, who can be 8 feet tall, his eyes are filled with light which very few can withstand, he can magically cause pain by looking at you, he don't need to say a word or point a wand as in Cruciatus curse. Heat of his body can kill even very durable oponents, we know that he can manipulate objects with mind, just like Gandalf who is of the same race. Gandalf just rise his hand and any weapon you hold fly away. After destruction of Numenor he took the ring with him without a body, so magically calling the ring from him would not be effective if he can easily take it back, or prevent it. Sauron is a sorcerer, full capabilities of sorcery is making illusions and phantoms, unnatural shadows obscuring the view (totall blackness surrounding you does not help to fight not at all), necromancy creating wraiths, Barrow Wights, mastering spirits of the dead. Those are not some stupid zombies, these are intelligent beings wit htheir own magical abilities. Also and foremost, enormous mental power, he is able to summon any wicked thing just by exerting will. It's very hard to beat it all and I even didn't point out other Sauron's abilities.

Horcruxes= nothing , he would come back 7 times , Sauron would kill him 7 times. Simple as that.

Well, Sauron could assume a beautiful shape, and flatter Voldemort into accepting a Ring. Pretty much the Witch-King all over again, and now Sauron has yet another Nazgul under his command...

Specifics for the battle would be nice.

But I will point out that even after loosing the One Ring, Sauron wasnt someone you'd ever want to be anywhere near if you valued your sanity. As the books mention, only the strongest of wills can endure Sauron, even when its through a Palantir, and those with that amount of willpower are people Sauron normally just manipulated, which is what happened to Denethor and Saruman.

Sauron doesnt have the feats to go up against Voldemort.

@Outside_85: Saruman was never influenced by Sauron. Saruman seeked to rule Middle Earth himself and was planning to use the knowledge he gained from Sauron to do so. Saruman was never manipulated by Sauron. Saruman was sent with the other wizards to directly counter Sauron's growing influences. Saruman was corrupted by dwelling too deep into the dark arts and things pertaining to Sauron and seeked to use it for his own purposes.

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: Saruman was browbeaten by looking into the Palantir, thinking himself powerful enough to resist Sauron, which he wasnt.

@Outside_85: There is a difference between being unable to withstand Sauron's visage and actually being manipulated by him. Saruman clearly wanted to rule Middle-Earth himself, with Sauron out of the picture. The fact he lied to the Nazgul when they asked him for the location of the one ring, would pretty much prove this. It is true to say that Sauron corrupted Saruman and that he became evil from trying to understand Sauron too much. But he was never truly manipulated by Sauron into doing his bidding.

The problem with a battle with Sauron is that you never know when his machinations will show up. Originally "innocent" things like the palantirs could be used for Saurons purposes, as he primarily shows Denethor images of his vast forces to destroy every hope Denethor could have of defeating him. But considering Aragorn was powerful enough to make the palantir show him what he wanted to see, one could assume Voldemort can do the same. I seriously doubt Sauron would come forth and confront Voldemort in person, but if he did, the battle would probably be something like Melkor/Morgoth vs Feanor...

Voldemorts greatest problem is that he would never destroy the Ring, and without destroying it, he can never destroy Sauron. And the Ring, as we know, always, eventually, seeks out its creator, possibly "betraying" Voldemort, and even if he did manage to find a way to keep the Ring for a long time, he would turn into a wraith or a Gollum-like being. NO WAY Voldemort is humble enough to accept that the Ring is stronger than he is IMO.

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: Both the movie and the books portrayed Saruman, at the onset of the War of the Ring as Saurons puppet. Gandalf and Galadriel in the movie says it literally, in the books Gandalf describes Saruman as being unable to resist Sauron's summons to receive instructions. Saruman may have had initial ambition to rule alone, around the time the Hobbit took place, but 60 years later he was dancing to Saurons tune even if he still thought himself as an independent power (again displayed in the books when he acted like a ruler when the Ents had overrun Isengard and everyone was there to negotiate his surrender). And in the movie we had Sauron literally ordering Saruman to create his Uruk-Hai army.

In short the only one who didnt think he was a servant, was Saruman.

@Outside_85: In the Unfinished Tales, the Nazgul visit Saruman asking him if he knew the location of the Ring. Saruman lies saying he didn't, despite being told by Gandalf that Frodo had it. Saruman uses his powers of persuasion to make the Nazgul believe him, and they leave. In Fellowship of the Ring novel, when Gandalf was defeated by Saruman, he was asked to join forces with him and to enlist the other Istari, so they could overthrow Sauron and rule Middle-Earth. In the Twin Tower novel he explicitly states that he was going to betray Sauron after defeating Rohan and bending Theoden to his will. The incident with the Ents showed that Gandalf superseded Saruman as head of the White council after destroying his staff. However, Saruman still managed to leave Isengard by tricking the Ents through his words, which can command most people. Never in the film did they say Saruman was his puppet, they merely said he teamed up with him to rule Middle Earth. Saruman was enthralled by Sauron's dark powers, such as the One Ring, but sought those for his own gain.

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: He does in the extended version when he is talking to Aragon while en route to Edoras. Btw, I am not sure you truly understand that Saruman was just a puppet regardless of what he may have told others, he just didn't see it himself.

@Outside_85: I don't see why you are using the film when the book supersedes it. Saruman was indeed a puppet of greed, arrogance, and pride. I just don't agree on you saying that Sauron was actively manipulating him, like he did to Denethor. Saruman actively tried to get the ring for himself, he tried taking it from Frodo, but by that time he already left the Shire. He also tried to find it after they driven Sauron out of Mirkwood, believing it was in the Anduin River. He was already malevolent before his communications with Sauron years later. Sauron only gained his Palantir after conquering Minas Morgul. However, I understand what you are saying. So I will leave it at that. I think we may be grasping a straws at this point.

Is this Sauron the beast with the mace from the movie with his ring or is it post that where he is a suspended eye?

Sauron is too powerful for Voldemort in a straight up 1 on 1 fight, but Voldemort is extraordinary in his own way, though he is simply outclassed.

@Outside_85 said:

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: He does in the extended version when he is talking to Aragon while en route to Edoras. Btw, I am not sure you truly understand that Saruman was just a puppet regardless of what he may have told others, he just didn't see it himself.

You are underestimating Saruman lol... I can see the logic in it. If he succeeded in establishing a new Rohan he would have been more powerful than Gondor was at that point and been able to unite its broken states under his rule.

Sauron wouldn't have much trouble with Voldemort, lol.

If Sauron doesn't know about the Horcruxes, neither can eternally destroy the other. But if they did get destroyed, Sauron would be in the far better shape.

If Sauron knows about the Horcruxes or they are not present, Voldemort just dies miserably.

Movie wise, it's quite possible for Voldemort to win though, and again, I question how he could permanently put an end to Sauron.

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: I am referring to both the movie and book versions since the OP hasnt mentioned which version of either combatants that are in use or at which point in their lives they are. I would point out that Minas Morgul and its Palantir was lost to Sauron roughly a thousand years before the War of the Ring. And yes I know and agree that Saruman, as mentioned a few times in the books, was playing a double game like Denethor accused Gandalf of playing. But I have to say I doubt Sauron was unaware of Saruman's plans and ambition and I doubt he felt particularly threatened by Saruman as long as he didnt have the One Ring (if we go by Jackson's numbers, Saruman sent some 10.000 Uruk-Hai at Rohan, Minas Morgul alone however sent 130.000 orks and haradrim at Minas Tirith).

@Outside_85: Minas Morgual was conquered a thousand years before, but the Palantir wasn't used until it was brought to Barad-dur and when Sauron returned to Mordor, which didn't happen until a thousand years later. Sauron was still at Dol Guldur during the Hobbit and was driven out by the Istari later on. Saruman, by that time, was already seeking out the ring for his own uses. He only agreed to assault Dol Guldur because he thought the ring was in the nearby Anduin River Fearing that Sauron may repossess the ring he chose to drive him out first. This was mentioned in the Unfinished tales. I do agree that Sauron most likely knew that Saruman was going to back stab him, but we cannot be sure, since Sauron was tricked by other people before. My only quarrel was with the point you made of Saruman being manipulated by Sauron, when he was really just being evil by himself. Though it really doesn't make a difference at this point, since it really doesn't pertain to this thread. I was just trying to point out something I disagreed with, but I think we're getting a little off topic by discussing the history of LOTR lol.

Sauron

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: Originally Isildur built Minas Ithil after he escaped the Fall of Numenor, but it was first captured by Saurons forces before it was retaken by the Last Alliance and the Palantir remained in human hands. It would only permanently into Mordors hands after Arnor collapsed and Agmar was undone, where the Witch King first fled to Mordor before capturing the city and its Palantir. While I think you are right in that we are derailing the thread, I will still point out that Sauron could have allowed Saruman having the space to make him think he had a free will in the matter. (added I am not sure Saruman getting the Ring would have done him any good since he'd still have to break it's addictive qualities).

@Outside_85: It's possible that Sauron could have allowed Saruman to believe he was fooled. I guess we never know. I am just under the impression that Saruman was working by himself, since he was actively trying to deceive Sauron. There were many reasons given as to why Minas Ithil fell. Some include that it fell into disarray after quite a while, since the Kings spent their time elsewhere. Another reason given was that it was ravaged by a plague for quite a while before the Witch King conquered it. The origin of the plague was never revealed, but it could have been the Witch-King or Sauron's doing. Gondor by that time was severely weakened by the attacks of the Wainriders, Variags and Haradims.

Sauron, effortlessly.

Heck, Sarumon probably beats Voldemort.

@Kingshark said:

Suaron's magic is far stronger than Voldemort.

Voldemort's hocruxes only mean he will be re-born if he dies. Sauron cannot die unless the ring is thrown in the vulcano.

Sauron is a tank with power beyond belief. Voldemort is a mere, pale white, noseless old man who was defeated by a 2-year old baby, and is complelety useless without his wand.

Even so. He's immortal. Sauron is a Maiar and can only be banished to the Void. Sauron stomps hard.

Really? Gandalf, an istari(or a limited maia who is according to most less powerful than Sauron even as olorin) is able to use his magic to break staves, set swords on fire and leave legolas' arms dangling at his sides without even touching any of them. Also, he is able to use fire and shields and he can use his staff to thump the ground and it sends thousands of orcs( or any being of any army for that matter) flying into the air instantly destroying them!

Suppose he did this to the death eaters and voldy. They would also go flying and supposing voldy is even half as powerful in body as all of you say he is gravely injured( instead of destroyed) while the other death eaters are destroyed. Voldy's wand most certainly slips and I can bet that he will be too damaged to do any kind of sorcery.

Now I'm pretty sure the witch king who also has these abilities( maybe they wont be as effective as when gandalf does it but they'll be quite effective) He did after all break the solid gates of minas tirith without touching them. So all nine of the Nazgul and Sauron who has no limitations on his full maia power? They would absolutely rape Voldemort and his death eaters! No contest here what so ever! More of a match for Voldemort and his death eaters would be I don't know maybe one of the very powerful elves who have no such aggressive magical abilities but are quick and skilful(enough to dodge spells I'd say) But even so, Voldy and death eaters would be hard pressed to win. A group of elves lead by one or a couple of high elves going up against Voldy and his death eaters? I think Voldy gets raped again.

Now if all of them threw killing curses at Sauron and his army I dont know that it would harm them if they could produce shields like Gandalf could. I know the WK and Sauron most definitely could. Don't know about the other Nazgul though. I would think even the other Nazgul are quite terrible and formidable at full power.

I'd say the WK alone could take Voldy and his army.

Sauron would win and his Nazgul would slaughter the Death Eaters, plus (not that has anything to do with this) Sauron quite a bit more intimidating