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#1 Edited by Frocharocha (2175 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron has the One Ring and wants to kick all the F*ckers a$$ out of his way. So here's the deal:

This is the Tolkien version of Sauron, otherwise he would just be too weak.

1) Frodo and Sam.

2) Gandalf The White, Legolas and Aragorn.

3) Leonidas and 10 spartans.

4) T-800.

5 ) Perseus (Clash of Titans 2010).

6) Voldemort.

7) Hitler and 150 Elite soldiers.

8) Spiderman, Deathstroke and Batman.

9) Kratos.

10) Dovahkiin.

11) Darth Vader.

12) Dr.Doom.

#2 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (15872 posts) - - Show Bio

With one ring? No one here's even a challenge. Clears.

#3 Posted by 18hunt (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

How is kratos lower than some of them, he stops at kratos definitely

#4 Posted by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 12.

#5 Posted by spinningbirdcake (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

If you throw 1-12 at him simultaneously you'd have a fight. As is they're as simple as walking up a flight up stairs.

#6 Posted by Lord_Johnathan (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

How god is Sauron's knee armor? I got a dovahkin with maxed out archery and a daedric bow.

#7 Edited by goblin123 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

If a mere mortal could get close to him and cut off his Ring, turning him into a useless eyeball... then anyone here can take him except maybe Frodo and Sam.

I'm sure Aragorn can pull an ''Isildur'' like in the intro of the Fellowship. Sauron has zero feats besides waving a mace and causing people to fly away en masse and that's only in the movies (in the LOTR books, he has even less especially as he doesn't even appear).

People in LOTR are a superstitious breed... the Ring was more of a symbolic and political weapon than an actual superweapon. At least that's how I'm reading it...

Sort of like how the Crusaders may have thought the war would ''definitely be lost'' if the Ark of the Covenant were captured by the Muslim armies. It's not that the Ark will actually do anything... it's more about what it represents and the superstitions that surround it.

#8 Posted by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123 said:

If a mere mortal could get close to him and cut off his Ring, turning him into a useless eyeball... then anyone here can take him except maybe Frodo and Sam.

I'm sure Aragorn can pull an ''Isildur'' like in the intro of the Fellowship. Sauron has zero feats besides waving a mace and causing people to fly away en masse and that's only in the movies (in the LOTR books, he has even less especially as he doesn't even appear).

People in LOTR are a superstitious breed... the Ring was more of a symbolic and political weapon than an actual superweapon. At least that's how I'm reading it...

Sort of like how the Crusaders may have thought the war would ''definitely be lost'' if the Ark of the Covenant were captured by the Muslim armies. It's not that the Ark will actually do anything... it's more about what it represents and the superstitions that surround it.

waiiit whaaaaaa? man, someone tell that to Sméagol!

#9 Posted by Bo88gdan (4393 posts) - - Show Bio

Gandalf the whıte Stops hım

#10 Posted by LubeMan (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bo88gdan said:

Gandalf the whıte Stops hım

Not really, he was well below Sauron and actually afraid of him.

#11 Posted by Bo88gdan (4393 posts) - - Show Bio

@LubeMan said:

@Bo88gdan said:

Gandalf the whıte Stops hım

Not really, he was well below Sauron and actually afraid of him.

In movie maybe

#12 Posted by AngryHulks (2994 posts) - - Show Bio

Stop at Dr. Doom, Doom's sorcery is not a joke.

#13 Posted by randomcharachter (320 posts) - - Show Bio

Kratos kills him, not sure about Doom and Vader but the rest will be slaughtered

#14 Posted by Frocharocha (2175 posts) - - Show Bio

@theONEtaichou said:

@goblin123 said:

If a mere mortal could get close to him and cut off his Ring, turning him into a useless eyeball... then anyone here can take him except maybe Frodo and Sam.

I'm sure Aragorn can pull an ''Isildur'' like in the intro of the Fellowship. Sauron has zero feats besides waving a mace and causing people to fly away en masse and that's only in the movies (in the LOTR books, he has even less especially as he doesn't even appear).

People in LOTR are a superstitious breed... the Ring was more of a symbolic and political weapon than an actual superweapon. At least that's how I'm reading it...

Sort of like how the Crusaders may have thought the war would ''definitely be lost'' if the Ark of the Covenant were captured by the Muslim armies. It's not that the Ark will actually do anything... it's more about what it represents and the superstitions that surround it.

waiiit whaaaaaa? man, someone tell that to Sméagol!

Sauron physical body was banished to the Void only his spirit remained... Within the ring, Sauron is a very powerful Maiar, who was trained by the third most powerful one.

#15 Posted by Inphase (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123: Not everyone can cut the ring from sauron. Only Aragorn can probably do it here if he had the sword of anduril/narsil.

#16 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5742 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha: Does Doom have prep if so he wins.

#17 Posted by Frocharocha (2175 posts) - - Show Bio

@ULTRAstarkiller said:

@Frocharocha: Does Doom have prep if so he wins.

Nope. They are teleported to each other.

#18 Posted by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

1-12 singehandedly=spite... 1-12 at the same time=spite...

#19 Posted by goblin123 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha:

Can someone please explain to me how 1. Sauron without the Ring = quite powerful. 2. Sauron creates the Ring and puts it on = Sauron becoes God Mode. And then 3. Sauron loses the Ring = Sauron sucks balls and loses almost all of his power?

It just never made any sense. The Ring is just an object that amplifies his powers right? So why can't he still be ''quite powerful'' without his little Ring? Why does he become so dependent on the Ring the minute he creates it?

Finally, WHAT EXACTLY was the Ring supposed to do in the books? What specific feats did Sauron accomplish WITH the One Ring so that everyone here keeps saying ''Sauron stomps with the One Ring.'' Because if there isn't any specific feats, then I don't see any evidence for treating the Ring as anything but a largely symbolic weapon (yes in the movies it can make a lot of people fly away and turn you invisible... but these two powers hardly make the Ring a ''superweapon'').

Because I keep getting the impression Sauron is largely a featless character and aside from his big scary reputation amongst people in LOTR universe, he actually has got almost nil in terms of feats.

#20 Posted by Caionsouza (134 posts) - - Show Bio

Stop at Kratos

#21 Posted by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha said:

@theONEtaichou said:

@goblin123 said:

If a mere mortal could get close to him and cut off his Ring, turning him into a useless eyeball... then anyone here can take him except maybe Frodo and Sam.

I'm sure Aragorn can pull an ''Isildur'' like in the intro of the Fellowship. Sauron has zero feats besides waving a mace and causing people to fly away en masse and that's only in the movies (in the LOTR books, he has even less especially as he doesn't even appear).

People in LOTR are a superstitious breed... the Ring was more of a symbolic and political weapon than an actual superweapon. At least that's how I'm reading it...

Sort of like how the Crusaders may have thought the war would ''definitely be lost'' if the Ark of the Covenant were captured by the Muslim armies. It's not that the Ark will actually do anything... it's more about what it represents and the superstitions that surround it.

waiiit whaaaaaa? man, someone tell that to Sméagol!

Sauron physical body was banished to the Void only his spirit remained... Within the ring, Sauron is a very powerful Maiar, who was trained by the third most powerful one.

I don't get how this is a response to me?

#22 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1984 posts) - - Show Bio

Bad language in the OP...

#23 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1984 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldemort wandlessly rips the ring from Sauron's hand then summons a Fiendfyre to decimate him. Voldemort has way better feats then Sauron.

#24 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (15872 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123 said:

@Frocharocha:

Can someone please explain to me how 1. Sauron without the Ring = quite powerful. 2. Sauron creates the Ring and puts it on = Sauron becoes God Mode. And then 3. Sauron loses the Ring = Sauron sucks balls and loses almost all of his power?

It just never made any sense. The Ring is just an object that amplifies his powers right? So why can't he still be ''quite powerful'' without his little Ring? Why does he become so dependent on the Ring the minute he creates it?

Finally, WHAT EXACTLY was the Ring supposed to do in the books? What specific feats did Sauron accomplish WITH the One Ring so that everyone here keeps saying ''Sauron stomps with the One Ring.'' Because if there isn't any specific feats, then I don't see any evidence for treating the Ring as anything but a largely symbolic weapon (yes in the movies it can make a lot of people fly away and turn you invisible... but these two powers hardly make the Ring a ''superweapon'').

Because I keep getting the impression Sauron is largely a featless character and aside from his big scary reputation amongst people in LOTR universe, he actually has got almost nil in terms of feats.

To be frank, sauron was already God mode before he created the ring. I mean, he was one of the strongest of the Gods, even before his corruption. His physical form is not very poweful, I don't recall tolkein explaining it properly, (what a surprise! *sigh* Damn that commander.. would it have hurt to properly explain the things?) But it was something like, sauron poured his essence, his soul in the ring (guess where the horcruxes came from lol), and so it was considered that he should return to his original God status with the ring.

But you're right. You can never judge a LOTR character by feats. But they all have one solid feat: They're older than time and created the world together. As I said, our dear commander was very inconsistent. I never got how a character who directly rebelled against God,took down sun and moon was hurt by and elf lord.. odd.

#25 Posted by TheTmac (472 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 4.

#26 Posted by TheTmac (472 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123 said:

@Frocharocha:

Can someone please explain to me how 1. Sauron without the Ring = quite powerful. 2. Sauron creates the Ring and puts it on = Sauron becoes God Mode. And then 3. Sauron loses the Ring = Sauron sucks balls and loses almost all of his power?

It just never made any sense. The Ring is just an object that amplifies his powers right? So why can't he still be ''quite powerful'' without his little Ring? Why does he become so dependent on the Ring the minute he creates it?

Finally, WHAT EXACTLY was the Ring supposed to do in the books? What specific feats did Sauron accomplish WITH the One Ring so that everyone here keeps saying ''Sauron stomps with the One Ring.'' Because if there isn't any specific feats, then I don't see any evidence for treating the Ring as anything but a largely symbolic weapon (yes in the movies it can make a lot of people fly away and turn you invisible... but these two powers hardly make the Ring a ''superweapon'').

Because I keep getting the impression Sauron is largely a featless character and aside from his big scary reputation amongst people in LOTR universe, he actually has got almost nil in terms of feats.

Sauron is as featless as they get. He lost to Isildur in LOTR so I think anyone past round 3 stomps him.

#27 Posted by Frocharocha (2175 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheTmac said:

@goblin123 said:

@Frocharocha:

Can someone please explain to me how 1. Sauron without the Ring = quite powerful. 2. Sauron creates the Ring and puts it on = Sauron becoes God Mode. And then 3. Sauron loses the Ring = Sauron sucks balls and loses almost all of his power?

It just never made any sense. The Ring is just an object that amplifies his powers right? So why can't he still be ''quite powerful'' without his little Ring? Why does he become so dependent on the Ring the minute he creates it?

Finally, WHAT EXACTLY was the Ring supposed to do in the books? What specific feats did Sauron accomplish WITH the One Ring so that everyone here keeps saying ''Sauron stomps with the One Ring.'' Because if there isn't any specific feats, then I don't see any evidence for treating the Ring as anything but a largely symbolic weapon (yes in the movies it can make a lot of people fly away and turn you invisible... but these two powers hardly make the Ring a ''superweapon'').

Because I keep getting the impression Sauron is largely a featless character and aside from his big scary reputation amongst people in LOTR universe, he actually has got almost nil in terms of feats.

Sauron is as featless as they get. He lost to Isildur in LOTR so I think anyone past round 3 stomps him.

It's kinda hard to judge characters from the movies. Tolkien rarely states about his character feats. Don't forget that Isildur sword was extremely powerful, able to injury non-physical beings.

#28 Posted by goblin123 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

To be frank, sauron was already God mode before he created the ring. I mean, he was one of the strongest of the Gods, even before his corruption. His physical form is not very poweful, I don't recall tolkein explaining it properly, (what a surprise! *sigh* Damn that commander.. would it have hurt to properly explain the things?) But it was something like, sauron poured his essence, his soul in the ring (guess where the horcruxes came from lol), and so it was considered that he should return to his original God status with the ring.

But you're right. You can never judge a LOTR character by feats. But they all have one solid feat: They're older than time and created the world together. As I said, our dear commander was very inconsistent. I never got how a character who directly rebelled against God,took down sun and moon was hurt by and elf lord.. odd.

I have a way for it to all make sense (everything you've just said).

Statement 1: ''... he was one of the strongest of the Gods, even before his corruption...''

Maybe ''Gods'' in Tolkien's universe aren't actually that powerful then.

Statement 2: ''...They're older than time and created the world together...''

Maybe you can be a very old God and even one who's done some creating, BUT you just aren't very powerful? After all, who said Gods have to be powerful? It is entirely possible to fit the criteria of being a God (being worshiped and having at least some supernatural powers) WHILE still being weak.

Statement 3: I never got how a character who directly rebelled against God,took down sun and moon was hurt by and elf lord..

Well again... it makes sense if you think of the Gods as weak. Sure the Gods worked together to create the universe and they are pretty old, but neither of these two things guarantees invincibility nor even a great deal of power in combat.

Maybe Gods in LOTR are more like super-smart engineers with some superpowers. Sure they can live a long time and they can create shit and occasionally do some stuff, but they don't do all that well in combat?

I mean... why is Sauron so featless? How did he get defeated by a mere mortal? Who said Gods had to be powerful (sure they need to be worshipped and have at least SOME powers but these might be mostly substance creation powers etc and not combat powers or invincibility). See my point?

#29 Edited by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123 said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

To be frank, sauron was already God mode before he created the ring. I mean, he was one of the strongest of the Gods, even before his corruption. His physical form is not very poweful, I don't recall tolkein explaining it properly, (what a surprise! *sigh* Damn that commander.. would it have hurt to properly explain the things?) But it was something like, sauron poured his essence, his soul in the ring (guess where the horcruxes came from lol), and so it was considered that he should return to his original God status with the ring.

But you're right. You can never judge a LOTR character by feats. But they all have one solid feat: They're older than time and created the world together. As I said, our dear commander was very inconsistent. I never got how a character who directly rebelled against God,took down sun and moon was hurt by and elf lord.. odd.

I have a way for it to all make sense (everything you've just said).

Statement 1: ''... he was one of the strongest of the Gods, even before his corruption...''

Maybe ''Gods'' in Tolkien's universe aren't actually that powerful then.

Statement 2: ''...They're older than time and created the world together...''

Maybe you can be a very old God and even one who's done some creating, BUT you just aren't very powerful? After all, who said Gods have to be powerful? It is entirely possible to fit the criteria of being a God (being worshiped and having at least some supernatural powers) WHILE still being weak.

Statement 3: I never got how a character who directly rebelled against God,took down sun and moon was hurt by and elf lord..

Well again... it makes sense if you think of the Gods as weak. Sure the Gods worked together to create the universe and they are pretty old, but neither of these two things guarantees invincibility nor even a great deal of power in combat.

Maybe Gods in LOTR are more like super-smart engineers with some superpowers. Sure they can live a long time and they can create shit and occasionally do some stuff, but they don't do all that well in combat?

I mean... why is Sauron so featless? How did he get defeated by a mere mortal? Who said Gods had to be powerful (sure they need to be worshipped and have at least SOME powers but these might be mostly substance creation powers etc and not combat powers or invincibility). See my point?

Morgoth destroys the Sun and Moon. Just sayin'.

And there's a perfectly good reason for Morgoth getting hurt by an Elf. At the time, he was depowered, because he stopped believing in the non-physical, so he was unable to tap into his original powers. The second prophecy of Mandos is clear that Morgoth regains his old power, then he starts messing up the universe.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Dagor_Dagorath

http://users.bestweb.net/~jfgm/valaquenta/MorgothSauron.htm

#30 Posted by God_Spawn (37127 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123: You need to watch the language in the OP or censor it next time.

Moderator Online
#31 Posted by TheTmac (472 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha said:

@TheTmac said:

@goblin123 said:

@Frocharocha:

Can someone please explain to me how 1. Sauron without the Ring = quite powerful. 2. Sauron creates the Ring and puts it on = Sauron becoes God Mode. And then 3. Sauron loses the Ring = Sauron sucks balls and loses almost all of his power?

It just never made any sense. The Ring is just an object that amplifies his powers right? So why can't he still be ''quite powerful'' without his little Ring? Why does he become so dependent on the Ring the minute he creates it?

Finally, WHAT EXACTLY was the Ring supposed to do in the books? What specific feats did Sauron accomplish WITH the One Ring so that everyone here keeps saying ''Sauron stomps with the One Ring.'' Because if there isn't any specific feats, then I don't see any evidence for treating the Ring as anything but a largely symbolic weapon (yes in the movies it can make a lot of people fly away and turn you invisible... but these two powers hardly make the Ring a ''superweapon'').

Because I keep getting the impression Sauron is largely a featless character and aside from his big scary reputation amongst people in LOTR universe, he actually has got almost nil in terms of feats.

Sauron is as featless as they get. He lost to Isildur in LOTR so I think anyone past round 3 stomps him.

It's kinda hard to judge characters from the movies. Tolkien rarely states about his character feats. Don't forget that Isildur sword was extremely powerful, able to injury non-physical beings.

Sauron was completely physical during that fight.

#32 Posted by Militaris (80 posts) - - Show Bio

Round one: Sauron would easily handle the two Hobbits. (Sauron Wins)

Round two would be much closer, I feel Gandalf the white and Aragorn should be able to take him after a long battle but would likely result in their deaths. (Draw)

Round 3: Hard to know, if the Spartans can control their fear they might stand a chance but I am giving the victory to Sauron.

Round 4: Sauron would struggle to even hurt the T-800 (Sauron Loses)

Round 5: No idea who Perseus is.

Round 6: Voldemort in the majority (Sauron loses)

Round 7: Assuming the Germans can control their fear, Sauron would die in a hail of lead (Sauron loses).

Round 8: Assuming fear is controlled, either of these three should solo. (Sauron loses)

Round 9: Kratos I think (Sauron loses)

Round 10: No idea who Dovahkiin is.

Round 11: Darth Vader in a number of ways.

Round 12: Dr Doom in a number of ways.

#33 Posted by Militaris (80 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

Morgoth destroys the Sun and Moon. Just sayin'.

And there's a perfectly good reason for Morgoth getting hurt by an Elf. At the time, he was depowered, because he stopped believing in the non-physical, so he was unable to tap into his original powers. The second prophecy of Mandos is clear that Morgoth regains his old power, then he starts messing up the universe.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Dagor_Dagorath

http://users.bestweb.net/~jfgm/valaquenta/MorgothSauron.htm

Do you have any idea on how large the Sun and the Moon was in Tolkiens universe? They were both much smaller then Arda. So that is only a impressive feat when used outside of his legendarium.

The rest of what you said is correct.

#34 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (15872 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123 said:

Yes, I see what you mean. Where you are going wrong, is you haven't considered eru. Tolkein has always implied him to be the greatest power, omnipotent, In the same way ToAA is always implied. Both are writer's direct implementation of God, (Notably, Tolkein being a devout christian, he made eru in the same way as Christian God, Top of the hierarchy, not nowhere down it) possibly the fictional implication of the writer, so as long as writers of comics aren't better than Tolkein (lol, that's a very Good joke, isn't it?), they are equal, because both writers have at least equal credit.. (and Each says that their fictional God is greatest, so they stalemate) Which makes morgoth somewhere in range of Thanos with HOTU, the only character who had, in some way, defied ToAA.. and the rest followed suit.

The reason sauron is featless, is because of the commander's damned habit of being "subtle". For example, battle of Gandalf and Nazgul, all he describes is "flashes of light". Though the implied power makes the book insanely awesome when reading, it's very inconvenient on battle forums.. (What are we supposed to say, Gandalf wins by deadly flash of light? lol) There are also inconsistencies in his work, more like PIS, like harry surviving the Greatest dark wizard about 5 times. (If he wasn't beaten, it wasn't possible to write the Entire LOTR..)

Tolkein nearly never gives characters feats, (Even morgoth taking the sun down would've been avoided if possible, 'he caused darkness in the world' would've been all). He uses nearly fully implied power, and to cap it all off, all the Ainur are in their physical forms (playground), Gandalf is purely restricted against going all out against Sauron and so on.. So we've to use his method, implied power to judge his characters.

#35 Posted by goblin123 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: but the thread's OP is not mine 0_0

#36 Posted by goblin123 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1:

I still don't get it... I mean.. if ''being in a physical form'' restricts your power then why would people like Gandalf, Sauron etc want to be in a physical form instead of their pure spiritual form?

Also, if ''Eru'' has God-like powers than why doesn't he just intervene in LOTR and then we wouldn't even have an epic story in the first place? I mean if he's as powerful as God then couldn't he just come down from the skies and smite Baradur down? Or he also one of those Gods who likes to test people and watch a good movie with real people and real blood that involves actual deaths between agents of good and evil?

Kind of takes out the suspense really if in a story you KNOW God exists and he can come down any time and end this... I mean if Sauron had gotten the One Ring, what's to stop Eru from saying ''Oh well, guess it's time for me to come down and settle this? I kind of wished the good guys would had won without my direct help but I could have walked in and used my omnipotent powers to end this any time. I'll just send all the good guys to heaven and all the bad ones to hell... Sauron NEVER had a chance. I just wanted to see if he would repent...''

#37 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (15872 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123:

First statement: Eru's will.

Second: Eru's will.

Third: Eru's will. Lol :)

But no, seriously, No top being ever jumps in direct physical battle.. TOAA, for example, is as much as fictional representation of writer as eru. We know he can come in anytime and nothing is going to stop him. (And why would he want to see if someone repent, he's the writer lol). The whole point is "God never intervenes directly"

You know, without TOAA's inertness, we'd never have read even one comic XD

#38 Posted by goblin123 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1:

I never understood how someone can be SOOO powerful, have absolutely nothing to lose by intervening, and just be so unwilling to intervene in a fight against a side that is so clearly evil... (I mean, LOTR isn't exactly a book of complex, muddled or realistic politics and the villains are clearly villains).

Instead, he prefers to watch a ton of people get killed pointlessly (I guess there ''is a point'' right? Testing people? Giving them a chance to prove themselves and inspire others? Even though people ARE bleeding and dying when they don't need to be)...

The TOAA and Eru? They are two people? Who's more powerful?

#39 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (15872 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123: Well, I have no idea why as well..

TOAA is what marvel calls it's writer.. Eru Illuvatar is what legendarium characters call commander J.r.r. Tolkein.. They're equal..

#40 Posted by Militaris (80 posts) - - Show Bio

Eru does intervene quite a bit during the story. His main intervention was in the second age when he destroyed the Island of Numenor, and buried Ar-Pharazôn and his invading army beneath a mountain until the end of time. He also intervene directly when Aule made the dwarves in the eldar days.

During LOTR there was many little things, why did Bilbo find the one ring, gandalf said ""chance--if chance you call it." , Also the dream which come to Faramair amd Boromir to seek for Rivendell (although one of the Valar could have been responsible). A refreshed Gandalfs return to Arda after his defeat by the Balrog. All signs that Eru was moving the pieces.

#41 Posted by Dredeuced (5280 posts) - - Show Bio

Eru Illuvatar is not Tolkien. It's an actual incarnate deity in the lore.

#42 Posted by darkelf35 (518 posts) - - Show Bio

No one on this list has any chance

#43 Posted by goblin123 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

@Militaris:

I think from what you've just said it's safe to say I'd find the way Eru works just as frustrating as the way the Christian God works (if he exists)...

#44 Posted by God_Spawn (37127 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123: Whoops. My mistake. I meant the OP. Must have clicked your reply instead and not paid attention to the name.

Moderator Online
#45 Posted by afueikawa (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123 said:

@Frocharocha:

Can someone please explain to me how 1. Sauron without the Ring = quite powerful. 2. Sauron creates the Ring and puts it on = Sauron becoes God Mode. And then 3. Sauron loses the Ring = Sauron sucks balls and loses almost all of his power?

It just never made any sense. The Ring is just an object that amplifies his powers right? So why can't he still be ''quite powerful'' without his little Ring? Why does he become so dependent on the Ring the minute he creates it?

Finally, WHAT EXACTLY was the Ring supposed to do in the books? What specific feats did Sauron accomplish WITH the One Ring so that everyone here keeps saying ''Sauron stomps with the One Ring.'' Because if there isn't any specific feats, then I don't see any evidence for treating the Ring as anything but a largely symbolic weapon (yes in the movies it can make a lot of people fly away and turn you invisible... but these two powers hardly make the Ring a ''superweapon'').

Because I keep getting the impression Sauron is largely a featless character and aside from his big scary reputation amongst people in LOTR universe, he actually has got almost nil in terms of feats.

1. As he is originally an angelic being (lower miar), he do have his power even without the ring.

2. In creating the ring, he poured mostly of his natural powers in it, serves as a transmitter for him to be able to control or take over those who uses the other rings.

Kinda similar to Nagato in naruto verse, where he transmit his chakra to his puppets.

3. Well, without the ring, he has less power, answerable by number 2.

He controlled and make those kings who used the other rings and made them his pawns (i. e the Ring Wraiths or Black Riders).

#46 Edited by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@goblin123 said:

@PrinceAragorn1:

I still don't get it... I mean.. if ''being in a physical form'' restricts your power then why would people like Gandalf, Sauron etc want to be in a physical form instead of their pure spiritual form?

Also, if ''Eru'' has God-like powers than why doesn't he just intervene in LOTR and then we wouldn't even have an epic story in the first place? I mean if he's as powerful as God then couldn't he just come down from the skies and smite Baradur down? Or he also one of those Gods who likes to test people and watch a good movie with real people and real blood that involves actual deaths between agents of good and evil?

Kind of takes out the suspense really if in a story you KNOW God exists and he can come down any time and end this... I mean if Sauron had gotten the One Ring, what's to stop Eru from saying ''Oh well, guess it's time for me to come down and settle this? I kind of wished the good guys would had won without my direct help but I could have walked in and used my omnipotent powers to end this any time. I'll just send all the good guys to heaven and all the bad ones to hell... Sauron NEVER had a chance. I just wanted to see if he would repent...''

It's not because Morgoth was in a physical form. Morgoth was the only Valar to take a fully physical form, and this had a crazy side effect of him not being able to return to his previous form. Morgoth was initially still just as powerful as he was before, but the longer he stayed in a pure physical form, the more he stopped believing in anything non-physical. Morgoth is a master of self deception, and eventually he believed his own lies that there is no god.

At this point, Morgoth basically became a pussy. His non-belief completely cut him off from his powers, and that was what made him weak. He literally turned himself into a street level character by thinking hard enough.

And I can't tell you why Eru does the things that he does. The best answer I can give is that Tolkien was a very devout Christian, and Eru is very much his perception of the Christian God. If Eru acts in a certain way, it's because Tolkien believes that God really does act that way.

The Ring is basically just an easy means of mind control. If Sauron wears the Ring, he automatically controls anyone else that wears one of the 9 or 7 rings. Basically, people didn't know Sauron was bad, because he's a shapeshifter, and he appeared to them as a good guy. He helped people out by making these rings of power that inspire great hope and leadership in people, but it was a trick. His plan was to instantly mind control all the world's leaders. This didn't work out, because he didn't actually help create the 3 Elvish rings of power, so there were still people left to oppose him. He had to put most of his spirit into the One Ring though, so losing it weakened him greatly.

Basically he created a massive weakness for himself for one chance to take over the world.

#47 Posted by afueikawa (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@goblin123 said:

@PrinceAragorn1:

I still don't get it... I mean.. if ''being in a physical form'' restricts your power then why would people like Gandalf, Sauron etc want to be in a physical form instead of their pure spiritual form?

Also, if ''Eru'' has God-like powers than why doesn't he just intervene in LOTR and then we wouldn't even have an epic story in the first place? I mean if he's as powerful as God then couldn't he just come down from the skies and smite Baradur down? Or he also one of those Gods who likes to test people and watch a good movie with real people and real blood that involves actual deaths between agents of good and evil?

Kind of takes out the suspense really if in a story you KNOW God exists and he can come down any time and end this... I mean if Sauron had gotten the One Ring, what's to stop Eru from saying ''Oh well, guess it's time for me to come down and settle this? I kind of wished the good guys would had won without my direct help but I could have walked in and used my omnipotent powers to end this any time. I'll just send all the good guys to heaven and all the bad ones to hell... Sauron NEVER had a chance. I just wanted to see if he would repent...''

It's not because Morgoth was in a physical form. Morgoth was the only Valar to take a fully physical form, and this had a crazy side effect of him not being able to return to his previous form. Morgoth was initially still just as powerful as he was before, but the longer he stayed in a pure physical form, the more he stopped believing in anything non-physical. Morgoth is a master of self deception, and eventually he believed his own lies that there is no god.

At this point, Morgoth basically became a pussy. His non-belief completely cut him off from his powers, and that was what made him weak. He literally turned himself into a street level character by thinking hard enough.

And I can't tell you why Eru does the things that he does. The best answer I can give is that Tolkien was a very devout Christian, and Eru is very much his perception of the Christian God. If Eru acts in a certain way, it's because Tolkien believes that God really does act that way.

It's Tolkien's version of the Bible.

  • From
  • Creation by God (Eru) - Genesis
  • Satan's (Morgoth) betrayal
  • Human struggle against evil (stories in between i. e LOTR) until
  • Satan's destruction (Morgoth) - Revelations.
#48 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@afueikawa said:

@Laurcus said:

@goblin123 said:

@PrinceAragorn1:

I still don't get it... I mean.. if ''being in a physical form'' restricts your power then why would people like Gandalf, Sauron etc want to be in a physical form instead of their pure spiritual form?

Also, if ''Eru'' has God-like powers than why doesn't he just intervene in LOTR and then we wouldn't even have an epic story in the first place? I mean if he's as powerful as God then couldn't he just come down from the skies and smite Baradur down? Or he also one of those Gods who likes to test people and watch a good movie with real people and real blood that involves actual deaths between agents of good and evil?

Kind of takes out the suspense really if in a story you KNOW God exists and he can come down any time and end this... I mean if Sauron had gotten the One Ring, what's to stop Eru from saying ''Oh well, guess it's time for me to come down and settle this? I kind of wished the good guys would had won without my direct help but I could have walked in and used my omnipotent powers to end this any time. I'll just send all the good guys to heaven and all the bad ones to hell... Sauron NEVER had a chance. I just wanted to see if he would repent...''

It's not because Morgoth was in a physical form. Morgoth was the only Valar to take a fully physical form, and this had a crazy side effect of him not being able to return to his previous form. Morgoth was initially still just as powerful as he was before, but the longer he stayed in a pure physical form, the more he stopped believing in anything non-physical. Morgoth is a master of self deception, and eventually he believed his own lies that there is no god.

At this point, Morgoth basically became a pussy. His non-belief completely cut him off from his powers, and that was what made him weak. He literally turned himself into a street level character by thinking hard enough.

And I can't tell you why Eru does the things that he does. The best answer I can give is that Tolkien was a very devout Christian, and Eru is very much his perception of the Christian God. If Eru acts in a certain way, it's because Tolkien believes that God really does act that way.

It's Tolkien's version of the Bible.

  • From
  • Creation by God (Eru) - Genesis
  • Satan's (Morgoth) betrayal
  • Human struggle against evil (stories in between i. e LOTR) until
  • Satan's destruction (Morgoth) - Revelations.

It's even more than just that actually. It's Tolkien's attempt to create a mythology for the real world. The timeline of Arda even extends into present day. 1892 was the start of the 6th age. We're currently in the 7th age. ^_^

It is basically a retelling of the Bible though, you're right about that.

#49 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (15872 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

It's Tolkien's version of the Bible.

  • From
  • Creation by God (Eru) - Genesis
  • Satan's (Morgoth) betrayal
  • Human struggle against evil (stories in between i. e LOTR) until
  • Satan's destruction (Morgoth) - Revelations.

It's even more than just that actually. It's Tolkien's attempt to create a mythology for the real world. The timeline of Arda even extends into present day. 1892 was the start of the 6th age. We're currently in the 7th age. ^_^

It is basically a retelling of the Bible though, you're right about that.

And he damn well did. Does that change me to tolkeinism?

#50 Posted by Frocharocha (2175 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@goblin123 said:

@PrinceAragorn1:

I still don't get it... I mean.. if ''being in a physical form'' restricts your power then why would people like Gandalf, Sauron etc want to be in a physical form instead of their pure spiritual form?

Also, if ''Eru'' has God-like powers than why doesn't he just intervene in LOTR and then we wouldn't even have an epic story in the first place? I mean if he's as powerful as God then couldn't he just come down from the skies and smite Baradur down? Or he also one of those Gods who likes to test people and watch a good movie with real people and real blood that involves actual deaths between agents of good and evil?

Kind of takes out the suspense really if in a story you KNOW God exists and he can come down any time and end this... I mean if Sauron had gotten the One Ring, what's to stop Eru from saying ''Oh well, guess it's time for me to come down and settle this? I kind of wished the good guys would had won without my direct help but I could have walked in and used my omnipotent powers to end this any time. I'll just send all the good guys to heaven and all the bad ones to hell... Sauron NEVER had a chance. I just wanted to see if he would repent...''

It's not because Morgoth was in a physical form. Morgoth was the only Valar to take a fully physical form, and this had a crazy side effect of him not being able to return to his previous form. Morgoth was initially still just as powerful as he was before, but the longer he stayed in a pure physical form, the more he stopped believing in anything non-physical. Morgoth is a master of self deception, and eventually he believed his own lies that there is no god.

At this point, Morgoth basically became a pussy. His non-belief completely cut him off from his powers, and that was what made him weak. He literally turned himself into a street level character by thinking hard enough.

And I can't tell you why Eru does the things that he does. The best answer I can give is that Tolkien was a very devout Christian, and Eru is very much his perception of the Christian God. If Eru acts in a certain way, it's because Tolkien believes that God really does act that way.

The Ring is basically just an easy means of mind control. If Sauron wears the Ring, he automatically controls anyone else that wears one of the 9 or 7 rings. Basically, people didn't know Sauron was bad, because he's a shapeshifter, and he appeared to them as a good guy. He helped people out by making these rings of power that inspire great hope and leadership in people, but it was a trick. His plan was to instantly mind control all the world's leaders. This didn't work out, because he didn't actually help create the 3 Elvish rings of power, so there were still people left to oppose him. He had to put most of his spirit into the One Ring though, so losing it weakened him greatly.

Basically he created a massive weakness for himself for one chance to take over the world.

I tough that too. Tolkien was very creative, and after learning about Melkor and Eru, i also therozied that Tolkien was very christian. But it's obvious that The War of The Ring was inspired on his time during WW1.