Just wondering, can anyone state other fighters-samurai that are on Sasuke level. I find Sesshomoru and Ichiki to be more powerful, so Im looking for people closer to him
I wonder what would happen if Natsu ate some Amaterasu fire
I'm not sure he could, as amaterasu burns through norma fire. (It's like, we can eat food, but not fire which burns it.. natsu eats fames but not something which burns it..)
I wonder what would happen if Natsu ate some Amaterasu fire
I'm not sure he could, as amaterasu burns through norma fire. (It's like, we can eat food, but not fire which burns it.. natsu eats fames but not something which burns it..)
Depends, if Natsu has gulped down other obscure forms of fire then there is no reason he couldn't. Theme is a major factor in shows like these and simply being called a fire technique may allow him to exploit it.
@Dextersinister: Natsu has consumed other things beside fire in the series :O
I suppose there's no reason he couldn't eat his Amat especially when it is considered fire.
@ComocYahweh said:
@D3athstroke said:
Natsu blitzes and rips his head off or burns him alive.
How does Natsu Blitz? Sasuke is like a hundred times faster.
It's next to impossible to compare the speed between anime character's when they both use the stylized he moves so fast I only need to draw him as a blur form of speed. I would only factor it in if they have superspeed in the form of a power like Rock Lee.
@dextersinister: Nobody in FT is that fast, whereas decent Naruto characters have been reasonably calced at being supersonic (the higher level ones being hypersonic).
Sasuke blitzes, that is all. Give me a shout when Natsu starts moving at supersonic speeds.
But if that doesn't work, he still has susano, kirin and a huge advantage in the intelligence department, not to mention having a far more diverse moveset. Sasuke wins easily, though if speed was equalised then we'd have a fight on our hands.
@girugamesh: Well Natsu has dodged a laser beam...While I agree that in terms of travel speed, Naruto characters are faster, but in terms of reactionary speed they are comparable.
@omgomgwtfwtf: That's pretty meaningless to be honest, literally hundreds of animes feature lasers, they vary massively in their speeds and powers. FT doesn't have the feats, calcs or powerscaling to suggest they are in the same league of speed as Naruto characters.
But I'll change what I said, it won't just be an effortless blitz (since Natsu has shown superhuman speeds in some fights). However, Sasuke still has the advantage in the speed department, both travelling and in reactions. His sharingan letting him read all of Natsu's moves won't help the dragon slayer either.
Sasuke wins low-mid difficulty, it definitely wouldn't go any higher than that.
How can Sasuke kill Natsu, lightning or flame attacks he can eat and is highly resistance to both flame and lightning, he maybe able to eat Susanoo, the sword will do nothing and kunai either. Natsu should be about the same speed, although speed I give it to sasuke. But how is sasuke going to hurt Natsu? Plus how is he going to tanked his mountain buster attacks. Plus at lightning form he is as fast if not faster than sasuke. And again how is sasuke going to kill Natsu?
@omgomgwtfwtf: That's pretty meaningless to be honest, literally hundreds of animes feature lasers, they vary massively in their speeds and powers. FT doesn't have the feats, calcs or powerscaling to suggest they are in the same league of speed as Naruto characters.
The same can be said for any manga. These calculations and power scaling are all assumptions made by fans. There is no definitive way to prove anything. Merely using someone's stylistic interpretation of speed doesn't prove anything. I have seen this so called 'calculations' on forums and they are just convoluted math equations, where you have to suspense all disbelief, just to make it mildly viable. It is beyond me how people even say some manga characters move supersonic, let alone hypersonic. Someone who is moving supersonic levels is literally going 761.2 miles per hour (1225.03 km per hour). Someone who is moving hypersonic is moving even faster than that. People dropping these Mach terms, really don't understand what these values even mean. Tell me can Sasuke really move that quick???? To put that in Lehman's term, Sasuke should be able to cross 3 football fields in a single second.
I'm not arguing that Natsu wins, but seriously, these speed calculations are in themselves illogical.
@omgomgwtfwtf: That's pretty meaningless to be honest, literally hundreds of animes feature lasers, they vary massively in their speeds and powers. FT doesn't have the feats, calcs or powerscaling to suggest they are in the same league of speed as Naruto characters.
The same can be said for any manga. These calculations and power scaling are all assumptions made by fans. There is no definitive way to prove anything. Merely using someone's stylistic interpretation of speed doesn't prove anything. I have seen this so called 'calculations' on forums and they are just convoluted math equations, where you have to suspense all disbelief, just to make it mildly viable. It is beyond me how people even say some manga characters move supersonic, let alone hypersonic. Someone who is moving supersonic levels is literally going 761.2 miles per hour (1225.03 km per hour). Someone who is moving hypersonic is moving even faster than that. People dropping these Mach terms, really don't understand what these values even mean. Tell me can Sasuke really move that quick???? To put that in Lehman's term, Sasuke should be able to cross 3 football fields in a single second.
I'm not arguing that Natsu wins, but seriously, these speed calculations are in themselves illogical.
I'm not saying they're all true, but there are plenty that make sense, ones that aren't just based on style and design. For instance, trying to give an accurate speed figure for Lee with his weights off is silly. Sure he's clearly superhuman, but you can't put a figure on appearing like a blur.
The Neji speed feat, against Kidomaru, however, is a lot more believable. You can roughly calculate how long it would take for someone to fall out of a tree, and from there you can calculate how fast someone would need to be moving to intercept that person (that feat suggested that Neji was capable of moving at hundreds of kilometres per hour).
I'm not saying they're all true, but there are plenty that make sense, ones that aren't just based on style and design. For instance, trying to give an accurate speed figure for Lee with his weights off is silly. Sure he's clearly superhuman, but you can't put a figure on appearing like a blur.
The Neji speed feat, against Kidomaru, however, is a lot more believable. You can roughly calculate how long it would take for someone to fall out of a tree, and from there you can calculate how fast someone would need to be moving to intercept that person (that feat suggested that Neji was capable of moving at hundreds of kilometres per hour).
Also, this:
And Sasuke is much further along now.
The scan only shows that they both impressive combat reaction time and reflexes. Some of which can be attributed to their sharingan's ability to see movements. It really doesn't prove the so called hypersonic speed which people like throwing out. If they were truly even moving supersonic, let alone hypersonic, shockwaves would be released as a side effect.
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This is a fighter jet moving at supersonic speeds. Hypersonic would be twice as fast.
As for the Neji point. Moving a couple of hundred kilometers per hour puts in subsonic speed, not even the so called supersonic which people like to use a lot.
@omgomgwtfwtf: True people do take fan made calculatioon to serious,I lol'ed when I saw someone claim Riful Of The West was mach 5000 lol.
I just don't think people are able to conceptualize such speeds, so they just believe it. I mean it's freaking mind boggling how fast something Mach 1 is, let alone like Mach 5. I use to think it was plausible for some anime characters to make that speeds until I did some research. Afterwards, I'm like this not freaking possible lmao!
@thatguywithheadphones: Natsu is the same guy who got shot in the mouth and only came out with a injure tooth. He been cut by lots of sword, so I don't think chidori would penetrate especially in his lightning fire form, he is resistant to lightning and fire, and can eat any ligtning or fire. And Natsu would be surrounded by flame so his hand will burn off before it goes to his chest. Any other method on how sasuke hurt Natsu.
@omgomgwtfwtf: True people do take fan made calculatioon to serious,I lol'ed when I saw someone claim Riful Of The West was mach 5000 lol.
I just don't think people are able to conceptualize such speeds, so they just believe it. I mean it's freaking mind boggling how fast something Mach 1 is, let alone like Mach 5. I use to think it was plausible for some anime characters to make that speeds until I did some research. Afterwards, I'm like this not freaking possible lmao!
Welcome to fiction my friend, where people move at FTL speeds on a day-to-day basis, nevermind Mach 1.
Now then, first to deal with that scan. They are able to draw and launch literally dozens of shuriken with perfect precision at superhuman speeds, and that's separate to sharingan (the sharingan is what enables them to counteract each others movements so well).
As for Neji, yes I know that it wouldn't put him in the supersonic range, he'd still be subsonic. But then this was a pre-timeskip Neji. The Sasuke in this fight is much faster than post-timeskip Neji, the pre-timeskip version wouldn't even compare.
And yes, I know what the effects of supersonic and hypersonic speeds are (by the way, hypersonic is beyond twice as fast as supersonic). But do you really expect animators/artists to draw in or feature in sonic booms every single time a character is moving at those kinds of speeds? You are trying to cram waaay too much actual science into works of fiction. We know that the Flash moves well beyond FTL speeds, but does he completely wreck whatever area he's in every time he runs? Of course not. In the same way, you can't expect continuous sonic booms to be going off in every high-tier Naruto fight.
The same goes for DBZ. Even the biggest DBZ-hater can at least accept that they're hypersonic (at least) in movement. You don't always see sonic booms going off in their fights.
Although, that's not to say they always neglect speed animations:
I understand where you're coming from, but it is commonly accepted that the better Naruto characters are easily supersonic.
Again, Natsu loses. As strong as he is, Sasuke's speed and sharingan give him too great an advantage.
@thatguywithheadphones: Natsu is the same guy who got shot in the mouth and only came out with a injure tooth. He been cut by lots of sword, so I don't think chidori would penetrate especially in his lightning fire form, he is resistant to lightning and fire, and can eat any ligtning or fire. And Natsu would be surrounded by flame so his hand will burn off before it goes to his chest. Any other method on how sasuke hurt Natsu.
@omgomgwtfwtf: True people do take fan made calculatioon to serious,I lol'ed when I saw someone claim Riful Of The West was mach 5000 lol.
I just don't think people are able to conceptualize such speeds, so they just believe it. I mean it's freaking mind boggling how fast something Mach 1 is, let alone like Mach 5. I use to think it was plausible for some anime characters to make that speeds until I did some research. Afterwards, I'm like this not freaking possible lmao!
Welcome to fiction my friend, where people move at FTL speeds on a day-to-day basis, nevermind Mach 1.
Now then, first to deal with that scan. They are able to draw and launch literally dozens of shuriken with perfect precision at superhuman speeds, and that's separate to sharingan (the sharingan is what enables them to counteract each others movements so well).
As for Neji, yes I know that it wouldn't put him in the supersonic range, he'd still be subsonic. But then this was a pre-timeskip Neji. The Sasuke in this fight is much faster than post-timeskip Neji, the pre-timeskip version wouldn't even compare.
And yes, I know what the effects of supersonic and hypersonic speeds are (by the way, hypersonic is beyond twice as fast as supersonic). But do you really expect animators/artists to draw in or feature in sonic booms every single time a character is moving at those kinds of speeds? You are trying to cram waaay too much actual science into works of fiction. We know that the Flash moves well beyond FTL speeds, but does he completely wreck whatever area he's in every time he runs? Of course not. In the same way, you can't expect continuous sonic booms to be going off in every high-tier Naruto fight.
The same goes for DBZ. Even the biggest DBZ-hater can at least accept that they're hypersonic (at least) in movement. You don't always see sonic booms going off in their fights.
Although, that's not to say they always neglect speed animations:
I understand where you're coming from, but it is commonly accepted that the better Naruto characters are easily supersonic.
Again, Natsu loses. As strong as he is, Sasuke's speed and sharingan give him too great an advantage.
Yet somehow Natsu dodging laser beams, lightning from Laxus, and meteor from Gerard are considered PIS by your standards? You already said that Rock Lee's speed is incomprehensible, yet you posted a scan of him moving at whatever speed he is. You also post a picture of Naruto, who is undoubtedly the fastest character in the series. Those characters are actually moving at the speeds suggested because there is actually evidence (i.e. sonic booms, wind friction, etc.).
The point I'm trying to make is that people try to apply real world logic in order to get this random Mach speeds, but fail to recognize this is fiction. You can't have it both ways. You can't just apply physics to whatever you want and neglect it in others. It's pretty simple. You can't simply attribute them as being quick, without first recognizing what is means to being fast. Sasuke is indeed quick, but nothing has put him in the range or supersonic, let alone hypersonic. He has not once indicated such movement speeds.
There is no narration, like in American comics, to actually physically dictate what speeds they're going at. For the most part, these calculations are still nothing more than speculation in the end. While I'm not arguing that Sasuke is slower than Natsu, or that he can't win, but seriously saying he wins because characters in Naruto are supersonic/hypersonic or Mach whatever plus, is asinine. The majority of Naruto characters don't move that fast ever. For that matter, many anime characters don't move at those speeds at all.
And i don't think Natsu will be able to consume Amaterasu.
Kirin (Undodgeable).
Complete Susanoo (1-Able to use arrows compose of Amaterasu "Undodgeable", 2-Able to Trow Amaterasu as ninja stars, 3 Full Buddy Susanoo, able to manipulate Amaterasu to cover Susanoo).
He was able to fight the Raikage at full power and speed, Will Susanoo wasn't complete. Able to dodge Killer Bee's full speed attack the "Only hes brother was able to dodge". And know he haves the Eternal Eyes, Know he can use all of those powers to no end.
@omgomgwtfwtf: True people do take fan made calculatioon to serious,I lol'ed when I saw someone claim Riful Of The West was mach 5000 lol.
I just don't think people are able to conceptualize such speeds, so they just believe it. I mean it's freaking mind boggling how fast something Mach 1 is, let alone like Mach 5. I use to think it was plausible for some anime characters to make that speeds until I did some research. Afterwards, I'm like this not freaking possible lmao!
Welcome to fiction my friend, where people move at FTL speeds on a day-to-day basis, nevermind Mach 1.
Now then, first to deal with that scan. They are able to draw and launch literally dozens of shuriken with perfect precision at superhuman speeds, and that's separate to sharingan (the sharingan is what enables them to counteract each others movements so well).
As for Neji, yes I know that it wouldn't put him in the supersonic range, he'd still be subsonic. But then this was a pre-timeskip Neji. The Sasuke in this fight is much faster than post-timeskip Neji, the pre-timeskip version wouldn't even compare.
And yes, I know what the effects of supersonic and hypersonic speeds are (by the way, hypersonic is beyond twice as fast as supersonic). But do you really expect animators/artists to draw in or feature in sonic booms every single time a character is moving at those kinds of speeds? You are trying to cram waaay too much actual science into works of fiction. We know that the Flash moves well beyond FTL speeds, but does he completely wreck whatever area he's in every time he runs? Of course not. In the same way, you can't expect continuous sonic booms to be going off in every high-tier Naruto fight.
The same goes for DBZ. Even the biggest DBZ-hater can at least accept that they're hypersonic (at least) in movement. You don't always see sonic booms going off in their fights.
Although, that's not to say they always neglect speed animations:
I understand where you're coming from, but it is commonly accepted that the better Naruto characters are easily supersonic.
Again, Natsu loses. As strong as he is, Sasuke's speed and sharingan give him too great an advantage.
Yet somehow Natsu dodging laser beams, lightning from Laxus, and meteor from Gerard are considered PIS by your standards? You already said that Rock Lee's speed is incomprehensible, yet you posted a scan of him moving at whatever speed he is. You also post a picture of Naruto, who is undoubtedly the fastest character in the series. Those characters are actually moving at the speeds suggested because there is actually evidence (i.e. sonic booms, wind friction, etc.).
The point I'm trying to make is that people try to apply real world logic in order to get this random Mach speeds, but fail to recognize this is fiction. You can't have it both ways. You can't just apply physics to whatever you want and neglect it in others. It's pretty simple. You can't simply attribute them as being quick, without first recognizing what is means to being fast. Sasuke is indeed quick, but nothing has put him in the range or supersonic, let alone hypersonic. He has not once indicated such movement speeds.
There is no narration, like in American comics, to actually physically dictate what speeds they're going at. For the most part, these calculations are still nothing more than speculation in the end. While I'm not arguing that Sasuke is slower than Natsu, or that he can't win, but seriously saying he wins because characters in Naruto are supersonic/hypersonic or Mach whatever plus, is asinine. The majority of Naruto characters don't move that fast ever. For that matter, many anime characters don't move at those speeds at all.
You continue to miss the point. There was nothing to suggest that those laser beams, or that lightning, were moving at the same speeds as real life lasers/lightning. What? Shall we accept that Naruto characters can dodge lightning because they can dodge lightning techniques? Real lightning is not the same thing as lightning magic/lightning chakra.
As for the Rock Lee scan, you misunderstand, that was not the scene I was referring to. I was talking about the point that he first takes off his weights; clearly we can see him appearing all around Gaara (so he clearly has superhuman speeds), but you can't really quantify that. The scan I did post is acceptable, as we see the ground destroyed by his speed; clearly, the artist put in more effort to emphasise it. I see the point you are trying to make, but you can still apply basic physics and calcs (e.g. person A running distance B in time C) whilst accepting that most of the time, the artist won't always be assed (in both manga and comics) to take the more detailed scientific parts into account.
Take BM Naruto for instance; how come he hasn't been shown to be making more crazy impacts with his speed? Because the animator/artist has already shown it once, and that (in his mind) is good enough for the reader to accept that Naruto is that fast. If you can't accept that then clearly you don't understand how animes/mangas work, you don't always need a narrator saying 'Person A is FTL' (I don't see how you can believe the narrator by you logic anyway, since they don't always demonstrate the said level of speed in comics). If you want to argue that DBZ characters are sub-supersonic or something, go ahead, but you'll have a hard time gaining any credibility. Sasuke has a clear speed advantage over Natsu, if it bothers you so much then equalise the speeds, it would make it much closer (though Natsu still loses).
You continue to miss the point. There was nothing to suggest that those laser beams, or that lightning, were moving at the same speeds as real life lasers/lightning. What? Shall we accept that Naruto characters can dodge lightning because they can dodge lightning techniques? Real lightning is not the same thing as lightning magic/lightning chakra.
You're saying exactly what I'm describing. It's all fictional, yet people try to attribute real life physics to it. There are arguments out there saying that character X is fast because he dodged Y, which according to real life physics is moving Z speed.
As for the Rock Lee scan, you misunderstand, that was not the scene I was referring to. I was talking about the point that he first takes off his weights; clearly we can see him appearing all around Gaara (so he clearly has superhuman speeds), but you can't really quantify that. The scan I did post is acceptable, as we see the ground destroyed by his speed; clearly, the artist put in more effort to emphasise it. I see the point you are trying to make, but you can still apply basic physics and calcs (e.g. person A running distance B in time C) whilst accepting that most of the time, the artist won't always be assed (in both manga and comics) to take the more detailed scientific parts into account.
My point is that that these speed calculations are based off an artist's imagery. Not even his words, but the pictures he draws. While some basic analysis can be made from them, there is nothing suggesting some of the wonky math I have seen on forums.
Take BM Naruto for instance; how come he hasn't been shown to be making more crazy impacts with his speed? Because the animator/artist has already shown it once, and that (in his mind) is good enough for the reader to accept that Naruto is that fast. If you can't accept that then clearly you don't understand how animes/mangas work, you don't always need a narrator saying 'Person A is FTL' (I don't see how you can believe the narrator by you logic anyway, since they don't always demonstrate the said level of speed in comics).
You're missing the point entirely. Narration is proof that the character is moving at those speeds. It's written evidence. If a writer says in a narration that Silver Surfer is moving at light speeds then he is moving at light speed, no? The same cannot be said for many manga, where many values are arbitrary made by the fans, not the mangaka. It's fallacious to claim that the mangaka intended anything, when proof of this is not existent. I could easily say that Naruto was able to break the ground from his running because he was super dense. While it's illogical to assume he gained any additional mass, there is really no way for you to discredit me. Narration, on the other hand, removes any room for doubt.
If you want to argue that DBZ characters are sub-supersonic or something, go ahead, but you'll have a hard time gaining any credibility.
Why would I argue that DBZ characters are subsonic in terms of speed? That was never the issue here. The issue is the fan made calculations that people take as fact. Just because you hear people say it or see some fancy calculation doesn't make it true at all. There are manuals for American comics dictating their strength level, speed level, etc. On the other hand, anime characters don't have this.
Sasuke has a clear speed advantage over Natsu, if it bothers you so much then equalise the speeds, it would make it much closer (though Natsu still loses).
Like I mentioned numerous times before. I have no issue with Sasuke being faster. I even said that in my first post. It's when you start dropping this hypersonic nonsense into the debate.
Because if I really wanted to, I can say that Fairy Tail members are supersonic to hypersonic in speed because here is the evidence:
In the end this would get the debate nowhere, because people would start arguing over the calculations, which in themselves are flawed to begin with.
Now do you see where I'm getting at? I don't care that you think Sasuke is faster, just don't try to add an ambiguous value to it, which can't be proven true or untrue.
@princearagorn1: He has eaten black flames before. He had to empty his entire magic energy but in the end he powered up and did a massive attacked. So im pretty sure natsu would win.
@princearagorn1: He has eaten black flames before. He had to empty his entire magic energy but in the end he powered up and did a massive attacked. So im pretty sure natsu would win.
It's not just black flames.. It's ever burning flames that engulf anything. But anyway, sasuke has far more with him than fire.. chidori, susano and stuff.. not to mention he's very good in h2h, too.
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