Sasuke and Naruto (End of Series) run the Bleach Gauntlet

@juzacloud:

it doesn't matter. the manga has already proved you wrong, so will the anime when the episodes are made.

Ah, you mean the same manga and anime that show you this ?

I'm not even here to debate whoever wins. I'm here debating specifically the tree. naruto wankers freeze up like ice cubes when somebody questions their beloved naruto. That ish is funny lol. Ignored most of the scans because you cant debunk them.

You mean like how you ignored these scans ?

That's called perspective. Something you keep on ignoring.

If you take this scan and look at it randomly the mountains will seem about twice susanoo's size :

However, if you actually pay attention like you should you will notice that the large distance between the two greatly distort the scaling. You can easily tell by looking at the rock pillars getting much and much smaller as the distance increases :

And these scans :

What kind of logic is that ? The mountains which the roots covered aren't even visible compared to the ones around the crater :

^ It looks like the Divine Tree is in a perfectly dug crater.

^ However as this scan shows there actually are a bunch of mountains near the base of the Divine Tree.

Not to mention these scans :

As well as using the very pictures you showed :

^ Compared to the planet's curvature a few miles wide structures aren't even visible.

^ Divine Tree still perfectly visible compared to the planet's curvature

Or better yet these scans :

LOL

@saint_of_origin: Alright. My bad then. Thats just how I interpreted it.

@saint_of_origin: Lol, and the countries are just province sized because of a reference. Since Son Goku (the biju) is a reference to Goku with the four tail to the 4 star dragon ball and the jinchruriki Roshi for Master Roshi. Goku is a biju confirmed. Naruto has the power of Goku, Naruto can go SSJ confirmed

@passingthrough545: It all becomes clearer by the second. Itachi uses Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi...Sun and moon deity references..that means he controls the sun and moon...which means he controls day and night cycles...which means he controls time!

@justsomerandomkid: Nah it's cool. I don't mind any series fanbase really. But unfortunately the loudest ones cause clashing between the communities.

is it not obvious I am here specifically debating the tree? I don't care who the vs battle is. Heck I didn't remember until you just brought it up. Thats you all stuck in this bleach, naruto, OP nonsense.

He hasn't shown me anything to believe the tree roots are 27 miles high in the mesosphere. Do you not see how ridiculous that is? even the outer crater walls match the height of the roots. The crater is 27 miles deep? the same length as the mesosphere? trees visible in the same panel that the roots dwarf mountains that can't be seen? and you don't see anything wrong with this?

Guys, let's deal with facts here.

Based on feats - no fan calcs, no inferences, just straight up feats:

• Naruto has reacted to an energy beam that crossed the circumference of the moon (roughly 7000 miles) in give or take 5 seconds (meaning said beam was moving between Mach 6600 to Mach over Mach 33,000),
• Has overpowered a proven moon level attack with a punch in less than base mode,
• Is capable of channeling the natural energy of everything on Earth's surface and above into an attack that stalemated the strongest attack of someone stated to be on par with a planet level character.
• Said attacks' explosion also was narrated to have made "the heavens and the Earth to cry out." It was also shown on-panel ravaging countries all around the world, from the Land of Mist and the Land of Frost (the countries where the war's heavy fighting happened) to the Land of Fire, ect.

All these feats have happened in The Last, and in the Naruto Manga 696-697.

Please show me any Bleach feats that are comparable to this. I've caught up with the Bleach manga, and no one has showcased the speed or durability to contend with Naruto, even if he was simply using his raw physical power. Bleach durability feats < Toneri's moon splitting beam << base Naruto's punches by The Last.

I'm not salty. I was just wondering when they were going to all get married. They seem to follow each others coat tails. I usually don't get into deep debates. Especially ones based off pixel scaling.

Hmmm I've debated

Magneto vs sasuke- won that, until the rules were changed in favor of sasuke

Hulk vs naruto- No bragging rights there. Anybody can win that

Snake eyes/storm shadow vs Kambei/Kyuzo- shut that down swiftly

probably others I can't remember

@sophia89 said:

@juzacloud said:

@mudamudamuda: So all the characters on the battlefield are hundreds of miles away from each other?

@sophia89 said:

@juzacloud: Dude I horribly stomped you before,do you really want another one?

Try challenging noobs maybe you can stand a chance there.

The same 5 naruto wankers holding each others hands. Yall getting married anytime soon? Its funny that you think you've accomplished something when your same buddies come and cheer you on. Destroying you both is a hobby of mine. Whats even more funny is that you both protecting a series as if its your own creation. That's the sad part. Fighting for naruto lol. Being blinded by biased views. Everybody on here destroys yall from the marvel to dc boys. Naruto is a sheit stain on the underwear of comicvine. Yet you coming at me sideways?

And here it is the hate. What a weird thing to say from a guy that claims he is a Naruto fan and that Jiraya is 1 of his favs.

And BTW how can we congratulate ourselves for stomping you when you destroy us? Even your rant doesn't make sense.

As for the whole post this is my reply:

Yup, can't stand anyone going against naruto can you?.Now I can't be a fan of naruto if I disagree with you? what is this nazi germany?

You definitely didn't win that one. Lol

And to make things worse for the Bleach side, the OP made chakra = spiritual pressure and reiatsu, plus gave Naruto and Sasuke access to techniques that they haven't used but aren't too "advanced", meaning Sasuke just uses his Rinnegan to absorb almost all of attacks thrown at him and solos just based on that. Lol

/thread

@saint_of_origin: chakra and spiritual energy could be considered the same since is how many energy they use, Spiritual Pressure is the power they put in their attacks or putt into the enemies

Lmao. This thread. I don't regret making it. I'm sitting here reading Juza's posts like:

Waiting on @mudamudamuda to reply to him xD

this is just getting sad

"Genjutsu is something that works on you opponent's five senses. To control the chakra flowing through and linking their cranial nerves." to work, the victim needs to have chakra.

the world three absorbs their chakra and slowsly transform them into White Zetsus, while puttiung their victims into a genjutsu.

To escape the genjutsu people needs to induce themself pain or stop the chakra circulating by their brain.

Which mean the shinigamis can put down sasuke and naruto with their reiatsu alone since naruto and sasuke are alive.

Senjutsu is nature chakra, they explain that in naruto's training.

the size of the perfect susanoo isn't much more bigger than the mountains.

Gallery

and the meteors weren't that much bigger than the mountains, Sasuke's PS is relativaly equal compared to Madara's PS.

None of your arguments are balid

Also how are spiritual pressure and chakra equal since the energy inside the shinigamis is spiritual energy, they use spiritual pressure to crush their opponents, augment their attacks ect.

@saint_of_origin said:

Lmao. This thread. I don't regret making it. I'm sitting here reading Juza's posts like:

Waiting on @mudamudamuda to reply to him xD

LOL and in wocial people call me troll XD. i like you bro

you and i are like

@divell:

"Genjutsu is something that works on you opponent's five senses. To control the chakra flowing through and linking their cranial nerves." to work, the victim needs to have chakra.

Do you even read what you post?

"Genjutsu is something that works on your opponent's five senses." Just because someone don't have chakra, doesn't mean they don't have senses. And no, nowhere it that scan does it say "A person has to have chakra in order to fall under a genjutsu."

the world three absorbs their chakra and slowsly transform them into White Zetsus, while puttiung their victims into a genjutsu.

Do you even know what I'm talking about?

Kaguya was the first person in the world to have chakra, and once she got it, she put everyone else in the world under a genjutsu. They DID NOT have chakra at this time. After Hagaromo came and broke everyone out, then they received chakra.

What don't you understand about that?

To escape the genjutsu people needs to induce themself pain or stop the chakra circulating by their brain.

No one from Bleach would know about this and no one would be able to even tell if they're under a genjutsu.

Which mean the shinigamis can put down sasuke and naruto with their reiatsu alone since naruto and sasuke are alive.

That's probably one of the stupidest arguments I've heard out of a Bleach fanboy.

Senjutsu is nature chakra, they explain that in naruto's training.

No, senjutsu is natural energy. It's completely different than chakra. Only people were given chakra, not animals.

the size of the perfect susanoo isn't much more bigger than the mountains.

You do know that the mountains Madara's Susanoo cut were in the distance, right? Meaning they're going to look smaller, compared to the Perfect Susanoo.

Seriously, quit trying to lowball Sasuke's feat. It's embarrassing. The meteors were clearly bigger than his Susanoo. The second scan even shows the size of the meteor from a distance compared to Sasuke's Susanoo:

Gallery

None of your arguments are balid

At least I can spell.

Also how are spiritual pressure and chakra equal since the energy inside the shinigamis is spiritual energy, they use spiritual pressure to crush their opponents, augment their attacks ect.

It's equal because the OP says it's equal. You can't debate that.

And chakra can't crush or physically hurt people, you say?

Gallery

All that with just chakra ^

Chakra can't be used to augment attacks, you say?

Gallery

this is just getting sad

Tell me about it.

@thevivas said:

@divell:

"Genjutsu is something that works on you opponent's five senses. To control the chakra flowing through and linking their cranial nerves." to work, the victim needs to have chakra.

Do you even read what you post?

"Genjutsu is something that works on your opponent's five senses." Just because someone don't have chakra, doesn't mean they don't have senses. And no, nowhere it that scan does it say "A person has to have chakra in order to fall under a genjutsu."

the world three absorbs their chakra and slowsly transform them into White Zetsus, while puttiung their victims into a genjutsu.

Do you even know what I'm talking about?

Kaguya was the first person in the world to have chakra, and once she got it, she put everyone else in the world under a genjutsu. They DID NOT have chakra at this time. After Hagaromo came and broke everyone out, then they received chakra.

What don't you understand about that?

To escape the genjutsu people needs to induce themself pain or stop the chakra circulating by their brain.

No one from Bleach would know about this and no one would be able to even tell if they're under a genjutsu.

Which mean the shinigamis can put down sasuke and naruto with their reiatsu alone since naruto and sasuke are alive.

That's probably one of the stupidest arguments I've heard out of a Bleach fanboy.

Senjutsu is nature chakra, they explain that in naruto's training.

No, senjutsu is natural energy. It's completely different than chakra. Only people were given chakra, not animals.

the size of the perfect susanoo isn't much more bigger than the mountains.

You do know that the mountains Madara's Susanoo cut were in the distance, right? Meaning they're going to look smaller, compared to the Perfect Susanoo.

Seriously, quit trying to lowball Sasuke's feat. It's embarrassing. The meteors were clearly bigger than his Susanoo. The second scan even shows the size of the meteor from a distance compared to Sasuke's Susanoo:

Gallery

None of your arguments are balid

At least I can spell.

Also how are spiritual pressure and chakra equal since the energy inside the shinigamis is spiritual energy, they use spiritual pressure to crush their opponents, augment their attacks ect.

It's equal because the OP says it's equal. You can't debate that.

And chakra can't crush or physically hurt people, you say?

Gallery

All that with just chakra ^

Chakra can't be used to augment attacks, you say?

Gallery

this is just getting sad

Tell me about it.

read the rest of it. To control the chakra flowing through and linking their cranial nerves. it needs to control the chakra on the

how is she going to put everyone in the genjutsu if the people call her the Rabit Godess or Demon? huh.

Gallery

The three baund the people by it's own three which cause them to fall into the tsukuyomi

Chakra is weaponized by the ninjas to create ninjutsu, genjutsu and other techniques they use the chakra to create their attacks and controlling their attacks.

if Madara's mountain were on the background in the distance how is it supposused that the muntain were going to be smaller?

I'm not trying to lowbull or anything i'm saying that the meteors weren't so big in one scan and their pieces were bigger than it was suppose to be.

chackra can do that but when they have a big amount of it and it cause physical damage and it isn't mortal

Gallery

while reiatsu can slow down the enemie, protect their bodies against others attacks and even suppress the enemies' power with one's reiatsu. Chakra is Reryoku in bleach wich is the energy that people posses Reiatsu is how much power they can create with that same energy.

Also chakra is the energy of every creature (including humans, animals, bijuus)

Kenpachi put in their knees Ichigo, Ganju and Hanatarou without problem

every creature in Naruto has chakra in other words the genjutus whom needs both the user and the victim needs to have chakra in other to manipulate people's mind through their senses. Senjutsu is the combination of natural energy (natural energy can be found in the air, earth, threes, plants ect) with chakra.

@etheral_dreams @thevivas

• Naruto has reacted to an energy beam that crossed the circumference of the moon (roughly 7000 miles) in give or take 5 seconds (meaning said beam was moving between Mach 6600 to Mach over Mach 33,000),

Um, isn't that 1st point a calc? Btw I still don't get why people use the circumference in that calc. It cut through the width, it didn't go around the outside of the moon and back to itself. No-one's taken the time to explain.

Has overpowered a proven moon level attack with a punch in less than base mode,

• Is capable of channeling the natural energy of everything on Earth's surface and above into an attack that stalemated the strongest attack of someone stated to be on par with a planet level character.
• Said attacks' explosion also was narrated to have made "the heavens and the Earth to cry out." It was also shown on-panel ravaging countries all around the world, from the Land of Mist and the Land of Frost (the countries where the war's heavy fighting happened) to the Land of Fire, ect.

All these feats have happened in The Last, and in the Naruto Manga 696-697.

Please show me any Bleach feats that are comparable to this. I've caught up with the Bleach manga, and no one has showcased the speed or durability to contend with Naruto, even if he was simply using his raw physical power.

Based on feats - no fan calcs, no inferences, just straight up feats:

Without using calcs to understand Seireitei's Size, such things aren't easy to counter. But there are Hax Abilities that could do the trick. Also, depending on which translation you use for Rei, Ichibei's base form is Mach 11,000 IIRC. Ichibei's not in the top-top tier.

And to make things worse for the Bleach side, the OP made chakra = spiritual pressure and reiatsu, plus gave Naruto and Sasuke access to techniques that they haven't used but aren't too "advanced", meaning Sasuke just uses his Rinnegan to absorb almost all of attacks thrown at him and solos just based on that. Lol

Juha counters your countering/absorbing? o_O Counter power vs Counter power.

@divell:

read the rest of it. To control the chakra flowing through and linking their cranial nerves. it needs to control the chakra on the

No, you read it carefully. It doesn't state chakra as a requirement no matter how you try to twist the words.

how is she going to put everyone in the genjutsu if the people call her the Rabit Godess or Demon? huh.

You're asking me how she put them in a genjutsu? Dude, read the manga. Literally. I don't know how she did it, but she did it. Who gives a flying f*ck if she's the Rabbit Goddess or not.

The three baund the people by it's own three which cause them to fall into the tsukuyomi

I don't even know that that means.

if Madara's mountain were on the background in the distance how is it supposused that the muntain were going to be smaller?

Cause the focus is on his Susanoo, not the mountains.

Seriously, you need to stop trying to prove that the meteors Sasuke cut were smaller than mountains when the picture literally shows the chunks he cut, not the whole meteor itself, being bigger than mountains. Just cause you think it shouldn't be bigger, doesn't mean it isn't.

Manga scans > your opinion.

I'm not trying to lowbull or anything i'm saying that the meteors weren't so big in one scan and their pieces were bigger than it was suppose to be.

That's exactly what you're trying to do. Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo wasn't even bigger that much bigger than the Biju Rasenshurikens Naruto threw to blow up his meteor, and even their explosions weren't big enough to completely engulf the meteors.

while reiatsu can slow down the enemie, protect their bodies against others attacks and even suppress the enemies' power with one's reiatsu. Chakra is Reryoku in bleach wich is the energy that people posses Reiatsu is how much power they can create with that same energy.

Chakra can do all of that too.

Naruto's Nine Tails' cloak has protected him from fire jutsus, Orochimaru's Kusanagi blade, Amaterasu, etc.; Sasuke's Sharingan has suppressed the Nine Tails in Naruto when they first met in Part 2, Neji's Gentle Fist blocks all an opponent's chakra network points, etc.

Also chakra is the energy of every creature (including humans, animals, bijuus)

Animals don't use chakra, they use senjutsu. The scan you posted even says senjutsu and chakra aren't the same thing. Senjutsu is gathered from the energies around you, chakra is gathered from within you and is made by yourself.

Chakra = energy within you

Senjutsu = energy around you

Chakra =/= senjutsu

every creature in Naruto has chakra in other words the genjutus whom needs both the user and the victim needs to have chakra in other to manipulate people's mind through their senses. Senjutsu is the combination of natural energy (natural energy can be found in the air, earth, threes, plants ect) with chakra.

Only people were given chakra by Hagaromo, not trees, not rocks, not air, not animals, just people. Chakra comes from people's own energies. Senjutsu is NOT chakra. It can be combined with chakra, but it's not chakra. It's two completely different things.

I'm going to say it again:

1) Kaguya was the only person in the world who had chakra when she put people in genjutsu. They didn't have chakra to manipulate, yet they still fell under her genjutsu.

2) Animals in the Naruto verse use senjutsu, not chakra, yet they have still been caught in Genjutsu.

3) You even arguing for Bleach characters not to be caught in genjutsu is stupid to begin with because the rules of this battle specifically state that genjutsu can be used.

Every single point you brought up, whether in this thread or in the Sasuke vs Kenpachi thread, has been debunked numerous times, yet you still have the nerve to ignore evidence, make up your own reasoning/versions of feats when you don't agree with a certain scan/idea and try to pass off your own interpretation/version as evidence instead of the actual one and its actual meaning, you have a clear bias towards Bleach, and try to find a way around anything that goes against your stance on a subject(Sasuke's Susanoo cutting meteors bigger than itself, the OP stating that chakra = spiritual pressure/reiatsu for this fight, Kaguya putting people in a genjutsu, etc.).

@jeepeh said:

@etheral_dreams @thevivas

• Naruto has reacted to an energy beam that crossed the circumference of the moon (roughly 7000 miles) in give or take 5 seconds (meaning said beam was moving between Mach 6600 to Mach over Mach 33,000),

Um, isn't that 1st point a calc? Btw I still don't get why people use the circumference in that calc. It cut through the width, it didn't go around the outside of the moon and back to itself. No-one's taken the time to explain.

Has overpowered a proven moon level attack with a punch in less than base mode,

• Is capable of channeling the natural energy of everything on Earth's surface and above into an attack that stalemated the strongest attack of someone stated to be on par with a planet level character.
• Said attacks' explosion also was narrated to have made "the heavens and the Earth to cry out." It was also shown on-panel ravaging countries all around the world, from the Land of Mist and the Land of Frost (the countries where the war's heavy fighting happened) to the Land of Fire, ect.

All these feats have happened in The Last, and in the Naruto Manga 696-697.

Please show me any Bleach feats that are comparable to this. I've caught up with the Bleach manga, and no one has showcased the speed or durability to contend with Naruto, even if he was simply using his raw physical power.

Based on feats - no fan calcs, no inferences, just straight up feats:

Without using calcs to understand Seireitei's Size, such things aren't easy to counter. But there are Hax Abilities that could do the trick. Also, depending on which translation you use for Rei, Ichibei's base form is Mach 11,000 IIRC. Ichibei's not in the top-top tier.

And to make things worse for the Bleach side, the OP made chakra = spiritual pressure and reiatsu, plus gave Naruto and Sasuke access to techniques that they haven't used but aren't too "advanced", meaning Sasuke just uses his Rinnegan to absorb almost all of attacks thrown at him and solos just based on that. Lol

Juha counters your countering/absorbing? o_O Counter power vs Counter power.

Ah this again, "you use for Rei, Ichibei's base form is Mach 11,000", which officially was debunked to 300miles. Juha is struggling to absorb a small portion of SK, he would be squashed before he know what happened to him.

@ben_coby said:

@jeepeh said:

@etheral_dreams @thevivas

• Naruto has reacted to an energy beam that crossed the circumference of the moon (roughly 7000 miles) in give or take 5 seconds (meaning said beam was moving between Mach 6600 to Mach over Mach 33,000),

Um, isn't that 1st point a calc? Btw I still don't get why people use the circumference in that calc. It cut through the width, it didn't go around the outside of the moon and back to itself. No-one's taken the time to explain.

Has overpowered a proven moon level attack with a punch in less than base mode,

• Is capable of channeling the natural energy of everything on Earth's surface and above into an attack that stalemated the strongest attack of someone stated to be on par with a planet level character.
• Said attacks' explosion also was narrated to have made "the heavens and the Earth to cry out." It was also shown on-panel ravaging countries all around the world, from the Land of Mist and the Land of Frost (the countries where the war's heavy fighting happened) to the Land of Fire, ect.

All these feats have happened in The Last, and in the Naruto Manga 696-697.

Please show me any Bleach feats that are comparable to this. I've caught up with the Bleach manga, and no one has showcased the speed or durability to contend with Naruto, even if he was simply using his raw physical power.

Based on feats - no fan calcs, no inferences, just straight up feats:

Without using calcs to understand Seireitei's Size, such things aren't easy to counter. But there are Hax Abilities that could do the trick. Also, depending on which translation you use for Rei, Ichibei's base form is Mach 11,000 IIRC. Ichibei's not in the top-top tier.

And to make things worse for the Bleach side, the OP made chakra = spiritual pressure and reiatsu, plus gave Naruto and Sasuke access to techniques that they haven't used but aren't too "advanced", meaning Sasuke just uses his Rinnegan to absorb almost all of attacks thrown at him and solos just based on that. Lol

Juha counters your countering/absorbing? o_O Counter power vs Counter power.

Ah this again, "you use for Rei, Ichibei's base form is Mach 11,000", which officially was debunked to 300miles. Juha is struggling to absorb a small portion of SK, he would be squashed before he know what happened to him.

actually juha or yhwach the translation and the sites aren't very clear about, will beat your powers while he know how it work.

No dude do you even read the manga? your stupidity is getting from amusing to annoying.

1 - it's says in there that you control the chakra in your opponent's mind.

2 - do you even know what sarcasms is?

3 - look in the dictionary

4 - It doesn't matter if you're focusing on someone. if we are looking to susanno bc he is first than the mountain that are in the background he will look taller check in the scan

Scans >>>> the way you wanna see it.

5 - PS was way bigger than Naruto's attack. And the explotion was bigger than susanno.

6 - No, chakra is the energy used on it, the power of the attacks depends in how much chakra you use on it.

7 - Read the scans to control Senjutsu you need chakra. The Frog activated the Senjutus when he pick up the rock. Akamaru to do the transformation jutsus together with Kiba use chakra, you control senjutsu with chakra.

8 - He show them how to use it, he didn't give them chakra.

10 - They were being bound by the energy of the three. Everyone was being linked to the world three.

that's how everyone fall into the genjutsu.

@thevivas: Only Frogs & Snakes are confirmed to use Senjutsu? The later can't even use ninjutsu as they cannot make hand seals.

Pretty sure Hounds, Snails, Salamanders, Hawks & Ferrets haven't been confirmed or even implied that they can use Senjutsu.

@divell:

No dude do you even read the manga? your stupidity is getting from amusing to annoying.

This is exactly how I feel reading everything you post, tbh.

it's says in there that you control the chakra in your opponent's mind.

It says you control the senses. Learn to read then come back here.

do you even know what sarcasms is?

And this is relevant because..?

look in the dictionary

Or maybe when you go learn to read you can learn to spell, too. Sounds like a plan.

It doesn't matter if you're focusing on someone. if we are looking to susanno bc he is first than the mountain that are in the background he will look taller check in the scan

Go look at the f*cken scan, dude. The meteors are bigger than Susanoo and mountains. Stop trying to disprove that just so you can make Naruto characters look weaker.

Scans >>>> the way you wanna see it.

That's exactly what I've been trying to tell you, but you don't understand that.

PS was way bigger than Naruto's attack. And the explotion was bigger than susanno.

The explosions were bigger than Susanoo but not as big as the meteors, yet Susanoo is bigger than the meteors?

This is exactly why all of you're points have been debunked.

No, chakra is the energy used on it, the power of the attacks depends in how much chakra you use on it.

Which is exactly what "use chakra to augment attacks" means..

Read the scans to control Senjutsu you need chakra.

No you don't.

He show them how to use it, he didn't give them chakra.

Not only does it clearly state that he gave them chakra, it also states that he gave "people" chakra, not animals.

They were being bound by the energy of the three. Everyone was being linked to the world three.

Yeah, this isn't even the instance I'm talking about.

Arguing this any further is both pointless and off topic. Pointless because the OP made it so that genjutsu already works, so all you're arguments are already moot, and off topic because the purpose of this debate is "Naruto and Sasuke run the Bleach gauntlet" not "can genjutsu work without chakra".

@keehn93: I never said Frogs and Snakes are the only ones "confirmed" to use senjutsu. Quit pulling things out of your a**.

Pretty sure The Sage of Six Paths gave people chakra, not animals. Actually I'm not "pretty sure" I'm 100% sure.

Mother of god. Why do i always miss the parties

(It is nighthunder :P)

I C. Because I have missed this troll fest i shall become a troll as-well and stalk the boards under my bridge.

I've seen the scan. I'd like to understand WHY which is true, but either way, I'm still curious about the Viz translation, It says 1000Ri(300 miles) . Does that mean that 1,000 Ri = 300 miles, or 1 Ri = 300 miles and there's a 1000 of them? Either way, the hax in Bleach makes it not a stomp. Tessai + Rukia have a chance. Add in Aizen, Juha, Dangai Ichigo, Mayuri, Urahara, Rose, ect.

@sophia89: Hmm I seee. You must speak from expierence

;P

I've been camping away on the RPG boards lmao

@sophia89: Imagine the bleach fanboys if and when Bolt and Sarada surpass their fathers.

@thevivas said:

@divell:

No dude do you even read the manga? your stupidity is getting from amusing to annoying.

This is exactly how I feel reading everything you post, tbh.

it's says in there that you control the chakra in your opponent's mind.

1 - It says you control the senses. Learn to read then come back here.

do you even know what sarcasms is?

And this is relevant because..?

look in the dictionary

Or maybe when you go learn to read you can learn to spell, too. Sounds like a plan.

It doesn't matter if you're focusing on someone. if we are looking to susanno bc he is first than the mountain that are in the background he will look taller check in the scan

2 - Go look at the f*cken scan, dude. The meteors are bigger than Susanoo and mountains. Stop trying to disprove that just so you can make Naruto characters look weaker.

Scans >>>> the way you wanna see it.

That's exactly what I've been trying to tell you, but you don't understand that.

PS was way bigger than Naruto's attack. And the explotion was bigger than susanno.

3 - The explosions were bigger than Susanoo but not as big as the meteors, yet Susanoo is bigger than the meteors?

This is exactly why all of you're points have been debunked.

No, chakra is the energy used on it, the power of the attacks depends in how much chakra you use on it.

Which is exactly what "use chakra to augment attacks" means..

Read the scans to control Senjutsu you need chakra.

4 - No you don't.

He show them how to use it, he didn't give them chakra.

5 - Not only does it clearly state that he gave them chakra, it also states that he gave "people" chakra, not animals.

They were being bound by the energy of the three. Everyone was being linked to the world three.

6 - Yeah, this isn't even the instance I'm talking about.

Arguing this any further is both pointless and off topic. Pointless because the OP made it so that genjutsu already works, so all you're arguments are already moot, and off topic because the purpose of this debate is "Naruto and Sasuke run the Bleach gauntlet" not "can genjutsu work without chakra".

1 - Genjutus is something that works on your opponent's five sense. To control their chakra flowing through their cranial nerves.

in other words in control the chakra in the brain of the opponent through the opponent's five senses.

2 and 3

Red - Naruto's attacks' explotion

Dark Blue - Meteors (complete and cutted)

Green - Mountains

In the scan with the mountain they look way bigger than they should have look.

Also Kenpachi's meteor was bigger.

4 - Along with the chakra sage techniques also add natural energy from outside you. Forming a new, stronger chakra.

in order to Senjutsu to work it needs chakra.

5 - He doesn't say in any moment he give them chakra.

Also he says that Indra was born with chakra and the other not. 015.png (900×1300) and that after hard work Ashura win power as strong as Indra. 018.png (900×1300) meaning he also had chakra, he never created chakra he created ninshuu to inpire hope in others 011.png (912×1300)

6 - True the point of this is in order for Genjutsu to work on people the victims needs to have chakra. Also every captain of the Gotei 13 is minimum a city buster. In the "run for the Gauntlet" giving reseting any damage they had from his previous battle they could win some of the battle but not all.

@ben_coby said:

@divell said:

@ben_coby said:

@divell said:

@ben_coby said:

@divell said:

to use Genjutsu in the people in naruto verse they use it controlling the chackra in people's head, Bleach character don't have chackra

You and your unfounded theories have already been debuked severally. You repeating it here again doesnt make it anymore true.

@keehn93 said:

@ben_coby said:

@keehn93 said:

Aizen makes them fight each other thinking they're fighting him. What's up.

Or Sasuke uses genjutsus on Aizen and makes him his pawn to solo most of this Bleach Gauntlet lol.

Or Aizen makes Sasuke believe he genjutsu'd him while he sits there & laughs at these 2 goofs kill each other.

Bleach abilities can't be fought like Naruto ones. They're more hax.

And still the punny KS is below Renni-Sharingan.

One there hasn't been anyone in here to prove it wrong, they just don't wanna accept it.

I have been following most of the debates, you ignore counters and kept moving around in circles without supporting your claims with anything concrete. Even if i endulge you, you would only continue your denial and keeping on arguing the same unfounded claims.

Naruto 345 - Read Naruto Chapter 345 - let's just said for a minute that Genjutsus don't need chackra to be used in the victim. with a small amout of pain you can get out of the genjutsu.

1 - Genjutsus has proven on to work whether you have chakra or not, this was stated when Kaguya used genjutsu before SOSP distributed chkra to everyone. Big false, show an instance where anybody has broken out of even a standard sharingan genjustsu with pain.

"genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain, thus causing a disruption in their senses"

2 - False again

3 - Look at 1 and 2, genjutsu works by controling five sense to take control of chakra network. Not the other way round. I think Muda already schoolrd you on this. But since its you, you ignored the above scan to use the scan below to give more unfounded claim.

4 - And then, this scan that you are clinging to also debunked you, 3 and 4 whiles you are in genjutsu your chakra is controlled. There isnt anywhere in the scan that it says you chakra is controlled to use genjutsu on you. All this show that your misinterpreting the scans to serve your purpose.

"Kenpachi fight for pure intinnt making this very unlikely to put him down with genjuts"

5 - See the first scan, genjustsu takes control over his 5 senses and disrupts them.He doesnt have any feat showing he can counterany form of telepathy.

"also the blind guy can kill all of a person's sense except for tact. Also that wouldn't work on Gin whom has always the eyes closed and Blind guy bc well he is blind"

6 - Have you even read Naruto at all, Genjustu can be cast with a finger

7 - Renneshiringan genjutsu doesnt require eye contact. So the blind guy or GIN would fall to it regardless.

"Everything in the naruto verse has chakra is their universal form of life. but in Bleach, DBZ, Fairy Tail, One Piece they don't use chakra"

8 - And that still doesnt prove the that genjutsu doesnt work, without chakra. Whiles infact there is evidence that Genjutsu work works without chakra when Kaguya use it before SOSP distributed chakra to every body.

"also Naruto 259 - Read Naruto 259 Online - Page 9 - Genjutsu controls the chakra in the brain which means it doesn't work on the shinigamis since they don't have chakra"

9 - Already debunked by manga, and Kishis word >>> Yours. Heck shinigamis have fallen to puny KS and you think genjutsu wouldnt work because they are shinigamis?. LOL

they have Reiryoku (spiritual energy), and what they use to fight is Reiatsu (Spiritual Pressure) in other words you guys don't want to accept it. Every creature in Naruto verse has chakra every creature in Bleach have Reiryoku and Reiatsu.

10 - Do you even know what you are talking about before you debate it?, chakra also contains spiritual energy and noboby is saying otherwise. You are the one making baseless claim that genjutsu requires chakra to work. Whereas that claim have been firmly debunked by the manga, so keep reaching.

1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8 - Kaguya used the Tsukunoyomi in the moon to control people. The Tsukunoyomi use the World three to do that and the world three bound them with his energy (Hashirama's scan)

Genjutus is something that works on your opponent's five sense. To control their chakra flowing through their cranial nerves.

in other words it controls the chakra in the brain of the opponent through the opponent's five senses. Also Kaguya

Also it looks like it doesn't work in death people since Hashirama and the others Edo weren't trapped on it for some reason. 2nd Hokage even ask himself that. Shinigamis = Dead people

Also http://manga-joy.com/wp-content/manga/5100/637/p_00011.png tsukuyomi transforms them into Zetsus

5 - Kenpachi fights on pure instinct, Tousen's bankai eliminates all of Kenpachi's senses he still was able to fight.

9 - No i'm saying that Genjutus won't work bc they don't have the same energy, Chakra is needed in order to fall to a Genjutu.

10 - Chakra's created by combining the spiritual energy (reyryoku of the shinigamis) and physical energy, shinigamis use Reiatsu (spiritual presion) in other words Not The Same. KS isn't a ilusion but total control of the opponent's five senses. And as long as you have seen it once you are forever under it's effect, unless you touch Aizen's sword with your hands... if you know what I mean. Kyoka Suijetsu >> Genjutsu.

@thevivas: @divell: You're using one statement - that's interpreted in a different way by both sides, but only one side has an actual example backing their interpretation. There's no point in going round and round with this. Does genjutsu work on people without chakra? Kaguya already used it. If you want to contradict it, use an example - Show one time genjutsu fails because the target doesn't have chakra.

I'm looking foward to anybody in bleach actually surprassing even Sakura in strenght feats.

@divell:

In the scan with the mountain they look way bigger than they should have look.

I'll say it again: nobody gives a f*ck how big you think they should be. Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo is not as big as a mountain. The chunks he cut are bigger than mountains, meaning the pieces as a whole are bigger than him.

Also Kenpachi's meteor was bigger.

Get the f*ck outta here with that. Sasuke beats Kenpachi in every category and only Bleach fanboys disagree, evident by only two people in that whole thread thinking he had even a chance.

He doesn't say in any moment he give them chakra.

He doesn't need to. Madara already said it. I'll post the scan again since you obviously didn't read it the first time:

He gave people chakra. If he didn't, how could he teach them ninshu? Him and his brother were the first people ever to be born with chakra. At the time, only Hagaromo, his brother, and Kaguya had chakra. If he didn't give it to people, then he wouldn't be able to teach it to them.

Even the Naruto Wiki proves you wrong:

"It was Hagoromo who spread chakra to others, intending for the chakra to connect people's spiritual energy so that they would understand one another without even talking."

"Since being spread by the Sage of the Six Paths,"

But knowing you, you're probably just going to brush that off or straight up ignore it, huh?

True the point of this is in order for Genjutsu to work on people the victims needs to have chakra.

No the point now is learn to read the god damn rules. Argue all you want, the OP is law when it comes to battles, and the OP states that chakra = reiatsu/spiritual pressure and that genjutsu works on Bleach characters.

Also every captain of the Gotei 13 is minimum a city buster. In the "run for the Gauntlet" giving reseting any damage they had from his previous battle they could win some of the battle but not all.

No, they stomp. If you knew anything about Naruto in general you'd know that.

No i'm saying that Genjutus won't work bc they don't have the same energy, Chakra is needed in order to fall to a Genjutu.

This is just getting sad now..

OP specifically states that chakra and reiatsu/spiritual pressure are the same for this battle. Arguing against that is plain stupid.

And only people were given chakra, not animals. This is supported by scans.

Animals have fallen under genjutsu. Also supported by scans.

Your argument fails.

KS isn't a ilusion but total control of the opponent's five senses. And as long as you have seen it once you are forever under it's effect, unless you touch Aizen's sword with your hands... if you know what I mean. Kyoka Suijetsu >> Genjutsu.

KS is no better than the most basic genjutsu. It only controls your five senses. Both Naruto and Sasuke use more than just their five, and KS has been "defeated" before by using other sensing methods besides your five senses:

And with chakra=reiatsu in this fight, KS would be even easier to break/see through than a walk in the park.

Try coming back with a better argument.

Kaguya used the Tsukunoyomi that use the word three in order to put the people in the "dream", the world three bound the people with it's energy. In other words it give them chakra

The technique connect them to the three in order to put them to sleep and transform them into White Zetsus. Genjutsu works in the opponent's five senses to control the Chakra there's in their brain. In here Saint make them to chakra to be equal to Reiatsu which is how they could be controlled. But if it wasn't the same then Genjutus wouldn't work on the shinigamis, this he and me we have been arguing it in three different threads of Bleach vs Naruto. Also everyone in Naruto has chakra, animals, people and he says that only people has chakra which is contradicted in Naruto's training to control Senjutsu p_00014.jpg (750×1095) chakra (spiritual energy and fisical energy combined) is used to control the natural energy around them. There hasn't been anytime that people hasn't used Genjutsu against someone without chakra bc every living creature in Narutoverse has chakra.

Madara says that originally the chakra the sage spread was the power to connect (4528186-3597046282-45276.png (900×1300)) but this is contradicted by the Harogomo when he says that that he created Ninshuu not ninjutsu 010.png (911×1300) which mean it could be a error in traduction since he never says he teach chakra, what he teach was how to use chakra not that he give them chakra. Also Madara says p_00010.png (900×1276) they weaponize the chakra which mean the people always had chakra.

@divell said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@thevivas: @divell: You're using one statement - that's interpreted in a different way by both sides, but only one side has an actual example backing their interpretation. There's no point in going round and round with this. Does genjutsu work on people without chakra? Kaguya already used it. If you want to contradict it, use an example - Show one time genjutsu fails because the target doesn't have chakra.

Kaguya used the Tsukunoyomi that use the word three in order to put the people in the "dream", the world three bound the people with it's energy. In other words it give them chakra

The technique connect them to the three in order to put them to sleep and transform them into White Zetsus. Genjutsu works in the opponent's five senses to control the Chakra there's in their brain. In here Saint make them to chakra to be equal to Reiatsu which is how they could be controlled. But if it wasn't the same then Genjutus wouldn't work on the shinigamis, this he and me we have been arguing it in three different threads of Bleach vs Naruto. Also everyone in Naruto has chakra, animals, people and he says that only people has chakra which is contradicted in Naruto's training to control Senjutsu p_00014.jpg (750×1095) chakra (spiritual energy and fisical energy combined) is used to control the natural energy around them. There hasn't been anytime that people hasn't used Genjutsu against someone without chakra bc every living creature in Narutoverse has chakra.

Madara says that originally the chakra the sage spread was the power to connect (4528186-3597046282-45276.png (900×1300)) but this is contradicted by the Harogomo when he says that that he created Ninshuu not ninjutsu 010.png (911×1300) which mean it could be a error in traduction since he never says he teach chakra, what he teach was how to use chakra not that he give them chakra. Also Madara says p_00010.png (900×1276) they weaponize the chakra which mean the people always had chakra.

First, and most importantly, post the example where genjutsu fails because the target doesn't have chakra.

Right now, all you have is a theory, which doesn't hold any credit. Then, I'll deal with the rest of the mistakes in the post.

@thevivas said:

@divell:

In the scan with the mountain they look way bigger than they should have look.

I'll say it again: nobody gives a f*ck how big you think they should be. Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo is not as big as a mountain. The chunks he cut are bigger than mountains, meaning the pieces as a whole are bigger than him.

Also Kenpachi's meteor was bigger.

Get the f*ck outta here with that. Sasuke beats Kenpachi in every category and only Bleach fanboys disagree, evident by only two people in that whole thread thinking he had even a chance.

He doesn't say in any moment he give them chakra.

He doesn't need to. Madara already said it. I'll post the scan again since you obviously didn't read it the first time:

He gave people chakra. If he didn't, how could he teach them ninshu? Him and his brother were the first people ever to be born with chakra. At the time, only Hagaromo, his brother, and Kaguya had chakra. If he didn't give it to people, then he wouldn't be able to teach it to them.

Even the Naruto Wiki proves you wrong:

"It was Hagoromo who spread chakra to others, intending for the chakra to connect people's spiritual energy so that they would understand one another without even talking."

"Since being spread by the Sage of the Six Paths,"

But knowing you, you're probably just going to brush that off or straight up ignore it, huh?

True the point of this is in order for Genjutsu to work on people the victims needs to have chakra.

No the point now is learn to read the god damn rules. Argue all you want, the OP is law when it comes to battles, and the OP states that chakra = reiatsu/spiritual pressure and that genjutsu works on Bleach characters.

Also every captain of the Gotei 13 is minimum a city buster. In the "run for the Gauntlet" giving reseting any damage they had from his previous battle they could win some of the battle but not all.

No, they stomp. If you knew anything about Naruto in general you'd know that.

No i'm saying that Genjutus won't work bc they don't have the same energy, Chakra is needed in order to fall to a Genjutu.

This is just getting sad now..

OP specifically states that chakra and reiatsu/spiritual pressure are the same for this battle. Arguing against that is plain stupid.

And only people were given chakra, not animals. This is supported by scans.

Animals have fallen under genjutsu. Also supported by scans.

Your argument fails.

KS isn't a ilusion but total control of the opponent's five senses. And as long as you have seen it once you are forever under it's effect, unless you touch Aizen's sword with your hands... if you know what I mean. Kyoka Suijetsu >> Genjutsu.

KS is no better than the most basic genjutsu. It only controls your five senses. Both Naruto and Sasuke use more than just their five, and KS has been "defeated" before by using other sensing methods besides your five senses:

And with chakra=reiatsu in this fight, KS would be even easier to break/see through than a walk in the park.

Try coming back with a better argument.

In the next page of what Madara says

Hagoromo created Ninshoo not chakra, chakra was always there people just din't know how to use it. He show them how to use the chakra, in order to use the ninshuu.

Youn already lose when you guide for what wiki says bc it is always edited by someone else what Manga says >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You and wiki.

In order to escape Kyoka Suijetsu you need to touch it. Gin says it. aslong as nobody touch Kyoka Suijetsu they be under the effect of the sword.

Let me put this in a way that you can understand the battle of naruto, were it takes place and all.

How big is the seireitei.

each of Seireitei's gates is supposedly a 10 day walk apart. For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to proceed under the assumption that Seireitei is essentially a circle with four equidistant points along its perimeter, and that walking distance means taking the most direct path from one gate to another (ie., traveling along the perimeter). That means 40 days of walking to start at a given gate, travel the circumference of Seireitei, and return to the same gate.

Average walking speed for a human is 5 km/h. We'll say that if you're walking, you'll be taking breaks to eat, rest your muscles, take care of your bodily functions, sleep, etc. We'll be conservative and say that you'll spend 6 hours walking.

5 km/h * 6 h/day = 30 km/day

circumference of Seireitei = 30 km/day * 40 days = 1200 km

circumference = 2 pi * r

-> 1200 = 2pi * r

-> r = ~191 km, so Seireitei is about 382 km in diameter

area of Seireitei = pi * r^2

-> pi * (191)^2 = 1.15 * 10^5 km = 115,000 sq km

This would make Seireitei a bit smaller than North Korea in size (which is 120,538 sq km, according to most sources I find). To think about it another way, it's about the size of the US state of Ohio, and you could fit six copies of Seireitei inside of the state of Texas.

Kenpachi's Metteor was almost as big as seireitei compared to anything Sasuke cut was way bigger also naruto's explitions were way bigger than the meteors. Seireitei is bigger than the countries of Naruto verse.

Sasuke and Naruto (End of Series) run the Bleach Gauntlet - Battles - Comic Vine

Sasuke and Naruto (End of Series) run the Bleach Gauntlet - Battles - Comic Vine

Sasuke and Naruto (End of Series) run the Bleach Gauntlet - Battles - Comic Vine

this guys were calculating how big is Naruto verse

The land were they fight Madara <<< Seireitei.

@divell:

Kaguya used the Tsukunoyomi that use the word three in order to put the people in the "dream", the world three bound the people with it's energy. In other words it give them chakra

Again with the misinterpreting. It didn't give them chakra, and even if it did, the IT put the whole world into a genjutsu, including people who weren't attached to the roots.

And it's "tree" not "three". Get it right.

The technique connect them to the three in order to put them to sleep and transform them into White Zetsus.

No the technique reflected a Rinnegan/Sharingan on the surface of the moon and put the whole world into a genjutsu. The tree's roots grabbing people had nothing to do with the actual genjutsu.

There hasn't been anytime that people hasn't used Genjutsu against someone without chakra bc every living creature in Narutoverse has chakra.

Again, only humans were given chakra and taught how to use it. No where in the senjutsu training scan does it say "animals have chakra" and I posted the scan TWICE of Madara's telling the group that the Sage of Six Paths gave it to humans in order for them to understand each other and connect to each other. He didn't give it to animals to understand and connect to each other.

but this is contradicted by the Harogomo when he says that that he created Ninshuu not ninjutsu

It's not contradicted at all. All he said was that they used what he taught them to weaponize chakra and create ninjutsu instead of using chakra the way he wanted them to. It doesn't mean they randomly started using chakra out of the blue, or randomly received chakra from nowhere.

what he teach was how to use chakra not that he give them chakra.

Also Madara saysp_00010.png (900×1276) they weaponize the chakra which mean the people always had chakra.

Your scan literally says "they used the chakrato connect their spirit energy with their own physical body's energy." Where do you think that chakracame from? Not their own bodies. Hagaromo was the first people in the world to be born with chakra, meaning no one else had any:

"A child bore from her, also had that power from birth." If Kaguya was the first person and to ever have chakra, and Hagaromo was the first person to be born with chakra, then tell me, how did everyone else get chakra?

@princearagorn1 said:

@divell said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@thevivas: @divell: You're using one statement - that's interpreted in a different way by both sides, but only one side has an actual example backing their interpretation. There's no point in going round and round with this. Does genjutsu work on people without chakra? Kaguya already used it. If you want to contradict it, use an example - Show one time genjutsu fails because the target doesn't have chakra.

Kaguya used the Tsukunoyomi that use the word three in order to put the people in the "dream", the world three bound the people with it's energy. In other words it give them chakra

The technique connect them to the three in order to put them to sleep and transform them into White Zetsus. Genjutsu works in the opponent's five senses to control the Chakra there's in their brain. In here Saint make them to chakra to be equal to Reiatsu which is how they could be controlled. But if it wasn't the same then Genjutus wouldn't work on the shinigamis, this he and me we have been arguing it in three different threads of Bleach vs Naruto. Also everyone in Naruto has chakra, animals, people and he says that only people has chakra which is contradicted in Naruto's training to control Senjutsu p_00014.jpg (750×1095) chakra (spiritual energy and fisical energy combined) is used to control the natural energy around them. There hasn't been anytime that people hasn't used Genjutsu against someone without chakra bc every living creature in Narutoverse has chakra.

Madara says that originally the chakra the sage spread was the power to connect (4528186-3597046282-45276.png (900×1300)) but this is contradicted by the Harogomo when he says that that he created Ninshuu not ninjutsu 010.png (911×1300) which mean it could be a error in traduction since he never says he teach chakra, what he teach was how to use chakra not that he give them chakra. Also Madara says p_00010.png (900×1276) they weaponize the chakra which mean the people always had chakra.

First, and most importantly, post the example where genjutsu fails because the target doesn't have chakra.

Right now, all you have is a theory, which doesn't hold any credit. Then, I'll deal with the rest of the mistakes in the post.

You say what i say is a theory, but it is backed by the story of Naruto about the sage of six path in the manga. also everything in this threat is just a theory.

@divell:

Hagoromo created Ninshoo not chakra, chakra was always there people just din't know how to use it. He show them how to use the chakra, in order to use the ninshuu.

No, chakra wasn't "always there." If it was, then why does the manga say Kaguya was the very first person to have chakra? Your fan theories keep getting worse and worse.

Youn already lose when you guide for what wiki says bc it is always edited by someone else what Manga says >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You and wiki.

Right, says the guy who doesn't accept scans because he disagrees with what the scans says.

In order to escape Kyoka Suijetsu you need to touch it. Gin says it. aslong as nobody touch Kyoka Suijetsu they be under the effect of the sword.

Nope, I just debunked that.

Let's just take Naruto for example. Aizen can get his regular five senses in KS but that wouldn't affect Sage sensing, which would allow him to know where Aizen is, which would render KS useless. It pretty much is useless, anyway.

This would make Seireitei a bit smaller than North Korea in size (which is 120,538 sq km, according to most sources I find). To think about it another way, it's about the size of the US state of Ohio, and you could fit six copies of Seireitei inside of the state of Texas.

God, your calcs are worse than Juza's.

Kenpachi's Metteor was almost as big as seireitei compared to anything Sasuke cut was way bigger also naruto's explitions were way bigger than the meteors. Seireitei is bigger than the countries of Naruto verse.

Nope. And quit getting off topic. The size of the Seireitei has nothing to do with this thread, so quit clogging the it with your terrible fan calcs.