I'm leaning towards Saiko. He got the better of Nightwing without much difficulty (although it's his only appearance to date), but I've seen nothing that says Batwing is above Nightwing.
We haven't really seen too much of them. So i can't accurately judge who would win here. Saito is most likely faster and way more agile. Massacre seems to be more ruthless and has shown impressive durability. I don't know if Massacre is skilled enough or fast enough to tag Saito, and i don't know if Saito's attacks are strong enough to bring down massacre. I'll post here later when i see more of them.
Saiko technically required the environment to get the better of Nightwing. The only real facts we have about him in comparison to Grayson is that the boy wonder believes Saiko is faster than him. Yet still he's able to dodge him quite well (as seen in the preview of #2).
@TheGoldenOne:
Oh, I by no means expect a definitive answer until we have more showings from both. But I really like them and thought speculating on the two could be fun.
I would go with Massacre;the guy is hunting and killing former heroes;plus he impressed me a lot more than Saiko did;so IMHO he would do to Saiko what he did to those cops.
@Hohenheim_of_light: I'm trying to give quite a few of the titles a fair chance. After the first stories, I'll decide what I'm going to drop/continue. That said, it's very likely I'll continue to follow Nightwing (Saiko) / Batwing (Massacre)
@Hohenheim_of_light: I'm trying to give quite a few of the titles a fair chance. After the first stories, I'll decide what I'm going to drop/continue. That said, it's very likely I'll continue to follow Nightwing (Saiko) / Batwing (Massacre)
I own all 52 first issues...I still need to read about 3/4 of them.
Batwing is phenomenal. That, Animal Man and Demon Knights are my surprise books right now. Wasn't expecting to even pick up DK and it was freaking awesome.
In case you're complaining about how we haven't seen too much from either yet, I've already addressed that.
@k4tzm4n said:
Oh, I by no means expect a definitive answer until we have more showings from both. But I really like them and thought speculating on the two could be fun.
Now, you can enjoy talking about these characters and speculate on it (not to mention we'll see more of Saiko tomorrow), or you can continue to poop on our party. The choice is yours.
I own all 52 first issues...I still need to read about 3/4 of them.
Batwing is phenomenal. That, Animal Man and Demon Knights are my surprise books right now. Wasn't expecting to even pick up DK and it was freaking awesome.
I've heard great things about AM and DK. I own DK #1 but haven't read it yet. I'll pick up AM sometime.
@k4tzm4n: AM has that dark edgy Vertigo feel to it. The ending was the best part, IMO. A bit of a mindf*ck.
DK is just all around a good story. I'm a LOTR/Neverwinter Nights fan, so I'm already geared to the fantasy books and such, but even if you're not, art is great, story's great. If I were reviewing I'd probably give it a 4.5/5.
I haven't....I'm almost a little scared to. I have such high expectations for it. He's probably my favorite DC character. And Higgins actually private messaged me and we talked a bit and I have total and absolute faith in him to write this character. His line about how going back to who you are (Nightwing) wasn't a demotion really sold me on his ability to write this.
But I've built it up so much, I feel like I'm gonna be disappointed no matter how good it actually is.
So I will surely let you know once I've read it xD
The DCNU is filled with Wolverine wannabe's lol,but Saiko wins for now due to his more impressive showing against Nightwing who is obviously above Batwing.
And I say, based on what we've seen, Massacre wins. He took down a whole police precinct, ran head on into bullets, is strong enough to put his fist through a wall, and durable enough to get smashed through a wall and electrocuted.
That's the one thing I object to, as I don't find it as something that is particularly impressive. We never saw how he did it, it's perfectly reasonable to assume he caught plenty by surprise, or without their guns, just like he did when he impaled Batwing from behind.
His performance against the Electro wannabe gives him points, though.
@Morpheus_: lol "Electro-wanna be." Yeah, I agree we have no clue how it happened, but based on his display after back-stabbing Batwing, it seems fair to assume he's capable of taking on a fairly large group of fodder...er...I mean comic cops.
@k4tzm4n: The second issue definitely improved my opinion both for Batwing (due to his willpower and determination), and Massacre (due to the more extended combat displays).
I really want to see him against a skilled opponent, though. Yes, he has impressive durability and doesn't seem like a slouch in skill, but fighting fodder (as you accurately put it) that can't rival him in close range, or a superpowered character who doesn't appear to have significant h2h skill (like Nightwing for instance) makes this an odd fight to tackle. Saiko gets the skill edge for me by default until Massacre does something extraordinary in that aspect.
@Morpheus_: It's especially hard for me to judge Massacre because I don't know how skilled Batwing truly is, especially in comparison to other characters. Regardless, I can't see the next issue offering too many feats to help determine skill (for Massacre) due to Batwing's physical condition.
Yeah, a bullet to the back of the head or even arm seemed likely from that vantage point, but meh. At least when he lunges forward at them, it's at an angle where he's mostly armored.
I don't see why not. Despite that armor, Batwing still gave him a bloody-nose from a headbutt, and his standard strikes were certainly felt. We also don't know the material of Saiko's blades, but there's a lot of Massacre that isn't armored.
@k4tzm4n: @Morpheus_: So I dont even see Saiko being able to hurt him....
He can chop his arms off.
@k4tzm4n said:
Yeah, a bullet to the back of the head or even arm seemed likely from that vantage point, but meh. At least when he lunges forward at them, it's at an angle where he's mostly armored.
@k4tzm4n: Well, imo, massacre has a degree of Super Strength and Durability. He doesnt wear gauntlets like Bruce, he just has spiked gloves yet he was still able to put his fist through a wall. And Batwing has Armour that must make his strikes more powerful
Honestly, I can see this feat falling under 'peak human' levels. I have no reason to believe he's sporting super-human strength (to any degree) yet, and I don't believe he has super-human durability, either. I think his armor helps absorb a lot of damage (as seen with it being bullet-proof), and aside from that he just has a really good level of pain tolerance (essentially being happy with Batwing when he gives him a bloody nose, coping with the electric based attacks, etc).
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