Sage Mode Kabuto vs Ultimate Aggregor

With location:

I personally think this would be an interesting debate, because while Ultimate Aggregor may seem like the obvious winner in this match upon first sight, I recommend you analyze Kabuto more deeply.

He has the following abilities:

• Immobilization
• Liquefaction, Body faking (Orochimaru) and Regeneration
• Enhanced perception and speed
• Environment Manipulation (would be very useful in the Null Void)
• The ability to continuously gather an indefinite supply of nature energy.
• Can use the abilities of the people he's taken DNA from.
• Genjutsu doesn't work on non-Naruto characters, so he can't use it here.

Anyways, I think Sage Mode Kabuto is quite haxxed yet underrated.

What do you guys think?

@nighthunder@lowlaville@neongamewave @the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk @nightway@princearagorn1@darthsenju@hiddenlight@shadowmaster91@emperorthanos

@iamoptimusprime: I stopped watching Ben 10 a while back so what can Ultimate Aggregor do?

Wrong forum m7

Well, as long as Kabuto don't let him touch him for more than a few seconds, he should be fine.

Aggregor only have 1/10th of the powers of the aliens he absorbed, and the one with the best destructive feat was Andreas, who was barely mountain level by statements, and building level by feats.

Not to mention that none of them showed impressive combat speed feats or TP resistance, and Kabuto has shown that starting with genjutsu isn't that out of character for him when he enters the Sage Mode.

Thanks, I usually forget lol

He can make earthquakes, electric bolts and shocks, survive in space, shoot highly pressurized water, create radioactive blasts, etc..

Genjutsu doesn't work on characters that are not from Naruto, and certainly not in this fight. I outlawed it.

No, because of the fact that he used a machine to absorb them, he has their full powers and range of abilities.

He can apparently cause lots of damage to the nervous system and is nearly invulnerable due to Bivalvan's armor.

@atomix

@iamoptimusprime: Forgot about the machine, but some points about the video:

Aggregor wasn't completely covered by the Bivalvan shell armour, and even regular Chakra Scalpels inflict internal damage, and Kabuto never showed the vulnerability of Suigetsu to electricity, but in fact resisted attacks to the nervous system even in part-1, that was somewhat related to his healing ability (And to Tsunade's ones as well), the fact that his regeneration is better at that stage makes things worse. Aggregor have insane traveling speed feats but almost none combat speed feats from what I recall.

@iamoptimusprime: Apart of what @hiddenlight mentioned before about Genjutsu, consider the following: It is explained (in a simple way) that for genjutsu to work it insert some chakra of the user in the body of the affected to "confuse" the chakra of the affected and produce the genjutsu. But the question is here: if the affected has not chakra to affect, what happens when a strange energy (the chakra of the genjutsu user) enters the body of someone that has never chakra inside them? Shouldn't the affected feel some form of anomaly on his/her body (not necessary an illusion) because a strange energy that has never existed in his body enter and try to affect it (the body), specially considering how volatile can be the chakra on other bodies (like with Jugo who can deform his body with chakra)? Imagine this like radiation entering on the body of a human being.

@iamoptimusprime: hate to break it to you mate but genjutsu works on people outside naruto it has been proven several times.

@newcomer: He is talking about characters that don't have chakra or some form of paths of chakra....

Mismatch, only Izanami could stop Kabuto and he still managed to dispell it.

@shadowmaster91: I know it has been proven multiple times to work on chakraless characters.

@newcomer: Who or which characters?

Kaguya usedit on people without chakra, and madara used IT on cats without chakra. There is also the jiraiya statement which many people interpret as people needing chakra which is false(won't argue about this one, too many people are hard headed ask experianced naruto debators to explain).

@newcomer: I think that animals in general have chakra (if you want, they evolved like that). the example are the summons.

@shadowmaster91: house hold pets have never shown to have chakra and what other summons use is natural energy.

@shadowmaster91:

Summoning animals are different to normal pets, summoning animals are special ones with chakra like the snakes, toads, slugs ninja dogs. Normal pets don't have chakra.

@darthsenju: @newcomer: And how do you think they were affected by the natural energy (and nowhere saids that they don't have chakra and they have been shown to use something to do ninja techniques (like the toads, who can spit a big amount of water or oil)). The thing is that we know that Natural Energy is some kind of energy that existed in more quantity in some places compared to others (for example the place of the toads and the place of the snakes), which could have made the evolution of common animals better compared to other animals in the rest of the world and made them sentient.

I have this theory:

-The natural energy of the world of Naruto affected the bodies of all living beings and made them have some form of chakra/chakra paths (meanwhile, with summon animals gave them apart of chakra, sentience too). From this, we keep the idea that Hagoromo "gave" them chakra by teaching them how to use it (this can be interpreted in both ways (as give tha ability or to teach it))

Also, I have another theory related with Kaguya and the infinite tsukuyomi:

-During the time of Kaguya, she didn't use some form of the infinite tsukuyomi (at the time there was no moon, so she didn't use something massive to make her plans of making Zetsu happen) to make her plan of Zetsu work. What she did was shove the people inside the tree and let the people suffer the transformation to Zetsu without a illusion protecting them from the reality of their situation. Then many will ask, why the infinite tsukuyomi? The answer is simple: what other way could Zetsu (because I bet that it was Zetsu and not Madara who got the idea of that Genjutsu) keep the people in one place to keep them away from opposing Kaguya. He knew that if he didn't used something massive, some ninjas would escape and oppose her and maybe (only maybe) destroy all that he worked to achieve. Also, he needed some way to keep them from escaping from the cocoons of the world tree, because which is easier to keep trapped:

-A normal human being / a human trapped in a genjutsu or

-A human being with powers and stuff.

I don't know..... what do you think people?

DEBATE THIS TOPIC PLZ, MAKE ANOTHER THREAD IF YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THAT VIDEO. AND DON'T DERAIL THIS ONE (you already did anyways :/).

Doesn't matter whether he was completely covered or not. He still had his power and durability.

You're acting as if those scalpels can harm him lol

You're underrating Aggregor in that case. You've also forgotten about radioactive blasts and mind reading.

Oh, and wind blasts+earthquakes.

Also, are you forgetting that he can withstand blows from Humungousaur? And withstand a whole house getting thrown at him?

Look at these image galleries:

http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/Map_of_Infinity_(Episode)/Gallery

http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/The_Forge_of_Creation_(Episode)/Gallery

Also, he can extend his tendrils to electrify people:

And create huge shockwaves that destroy buildings easily:

@neongamewave@scouterv@atomix@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk@rbt@lowlaville@princearagorn1@ssj_god

Not here since I ruled it out.

By acknowledging himself.

Also, are you seriously implying that Kabuto can kill Aggregor? The guy who soloed Ben's team on many occasions?

@iamoptimusprime said:

@hiddenlight said:

@iamoptimusprime: -SNIP-

Aggregor wasn't completely covered by the Bivalvan shell armour, and even regular Chakra Scalpels inflict internal damage, and Kabuto never showed the vulnerability of Suigetsu to electricity, but in fact resisted attacks to the nervous system even in part-1, that was somewhat related to his healing ability (And to Tsunade's ones as well), the fact that his regeneration is better at that stage makes things worse. Aggregor have insane traveling speed feats but almost none combat speed feats from what I recall.

DEBATE THIS TOPIC PLZ, MAKE ANOTHER THREAD IF YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THAT VIDEO. AND DON'T DERAIL THIS ONE (you already did anyways :/).

Doesn't matter whether he was completely covered or not. He still had his power and durability.

You're acting as if those scalpels can harm him lol

You're underrating Aggregor in that case. You've also forgotten about radioactive blasts and mind reading.

Oh, and wind blasts+earthquakes.

Also, are you forgetting that he can withstand blows from Humungousaur? And withstand a whole house getting thrown at him?

Look at these image galleries:

http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/Map_of_Infinity_(Episode)/Gallery

http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/The_Forge_of_Creation_(Episode)/Gallery

Also, he can extend his tendrils to electrify people:

@neongamewave@scouterv@atomix@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk@rbt@lowlaville@princearagorn1@ssj_god

Not questioning you tough, you've said that genjutsu doesn't work outside Narutoverse and posted a video where a guy with really poor and flawed arguments that literally put "Narutards" in the title lol.

Mind Reading doesn't mean that he can use that offensively, not even the alien from which he took the powers used that offensively. Earthquakes that were barely building level (It was a castle tbh) and resisting houses being thrown at him isn't even that impressive, Itachi and Sasuke had attacks on that scale, the same can be said for the Galapagos winds and his heat blasts.

I don't think that physical confrontation would matter that much, physically there would be no way for him to hurt Kabuto, not because Kabuto is immune to physical damage, but none of the aliens that he absorbed could inflict damage on that scale. He can liquify himself and heal from almost any kind of physical damage.

Chakra Scalpels inflict internal damage and were able to even hurt Tsunade in part-1, even before earning the sage mode, and I don't remember any internal damage resistance from Aggregor at all. Kabuto even resisted an attack that was supposed to instantly stop him by sending electrical signals to his nervous system in his base mode, in the Sage mode he could probably just slip away.

From the feats that Aggregor have, we don't even know if he could stand the White Rage Technique from Kabuto or any of his haxes.

I don't even recall any combat speed feat from Aggregor worth mentioning, Ben10verse feats lacks some quantifiable feats tbh, and when they say something it doesn't make any sense. It was even mentioned that the XLR8 Speed was 500 mph (Not even Mach 1), which contradicts every single feat that he had (He should be WAY faster than that). From what we know right now, Kabuto could just speedblitz and eat him right away.

Nothing suggests that he can tag his better attacks and the vast majority of them are in Kabuto's paygrade of durability, while he have no defenses for his best attacks. I don't even know why you mentioned the Bivalvan armour when he should have the NRG one which is even better, something contradicted by his feats, he wasn't shown to be protected by those in his entire body and there's no reason to think that he was lol, and even if he was, internal damage would still affected them, and Kabuto is an expert in using that.

@iamoptimusprime: oh I thought you were saying in general that it doesn't work but all right you ruled it out.

@hiddenlight:

Not questioning you tough, you've said that genjutsu doesn't work outside Narutoverse and posted a video where a guy with really poor and flawed arguments that literally put "Narutards" in the title lol.

"Flawed arguments"? Are you for real? No.

Mind Reading doesn't mean that he can use that offensively, not even the alien from which he took the powers used that offensively. Earthquakes that were barely building level (It was a castle tbh) and resisting houses being thrown at him isn't even that impressive, Itachi and Sasuke had attacks on that scale, the same can be said for the Galapagos winds and his heat blasts.

• I mean he'd be able to know what he can do.
• They had attacks on that scale, but they never used them against Kabuto, so don't wank Kabuto.
• And this is in the Null Void, he can fly anywhere he wants.

I don't think that physical confrontation would matter that much, physically there would be no way for him to hurt Kabuto, not because Kabuto is immune to physical damage, but none of the aliens that he absorbed could inflict damage on that scale. He can liquify himself and heal from almost any kind of physical damage.

• Same would go for Kabuto trying to harm Aggregor.
• Again, you forget about radioactive blasts that could potentially give him cancer.
• DC isn't everything here.
• And Aggregor can electrify that liquid.

Chakra Scalpels inflict internal damage and were able to even hurt Tsunade in part-1, even before earning the sage mode, and I don't remember any internal damage resistance from Aggregor at all. Kabuto even resisted an attack that was supposed to instantly stop him by sending electrical signals to his nervous system in his base mode, in the Sage mode he could probably just slip away.

• Tsunade≠Ultimate Aggregor. So don't compare them.
• How are his scalpels supposed to bypass his invulnerability? Oh right, they can't.
• Tough luck m8, UA has an infinite supply of electricity (he generates it).
• If those scalpels can't even break a sword, then how do you expect them to harm Aggregor?

From the feats that Aggregor have, we don't even know if he could stand the White Rage Technique from Kabuto or any of his haxes.

• I mentioned that in the OP. But UA can survive in a star. And he can counter-vibrate his own self. So.... is that supposed to kill him? It could immobilize him, sure, but...
• Anyways, UA can use energy indefinitely (same as Sage Mode Kabuto). Plus, he's an Osmosian so you should know what this means....

I don't even recall any combat speed feat from Aggregor worth mentioning, Ben10verse feats lacks some quantifiable feats tbh, and when they say something it doesn't make any sense. It was even mentioned that the XLR8 Speed was 500 mph (Not even Mach 1), which contradicts every single feat that he had (He should be WAY faster than that). From what we know right now, Kabuto could just speedblitz and eat him right away.

Nothing suggests that he can tag his better attacks and the vast majority of them are in Kabuto's paygrade of durability, while he have no defenses for his best attacks. I don't even know why you mentioned the Bivalvan armour when he should have the NRG one which is even better, something contradicted by his feats, he wasn't shown to be protected by those in his entire body and there's no reason to think that he was lol, and even if he was, internal damage would still affected them, and Kabuto is an expert in using that.

I am absolutelydisgusted with your Ben 10 downplaying and Naruto wank at this point........ Not even gonna address any of this RN. Got no patience.

@shadowmaster91: I know they have natural energy because only ninja summons have shown to have ninja techniques and it was shown with juubito that animals use natural energy.

The first one for your theory has a hole and that is kaguya was the first and she didn't give it to anyone so how did people have any form of chakra before hagoromo?

For your second theory it is slightly plausible but still it has been stated multiple times kaguya put people under genjutsu it is not unlikely that she could put millions of people under genjutsu by herself considering kabuto put a whole stadium of people(likely numbering in the thousands) under genjutsu. She could then put them in the tree and make zetsu's.

Anyway genjutsu is restricted so it doesn't matter.

I'm mostly spectating, but I just wanted to point out that this isn't actually that impressive. Or at least, it doesn't seem to be, if this calc I found for just this type of situation is correct:

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:DontTalk/Durability_required_to_resist_the_heat_of_the_sun

Ah. Good ole Genjutsu. So because a person can't use Genjutsu (Jairaya) makes him less knowledgeable on the concept? That's ehh literally can't find any other word to think of that's not along the lines of stupid.

You pick out plot holes in Naruto and people wanna make em' bigger.

@newcomer:

Anyway genjutsu is restricted so it doesn't matter

I like to learn new things, so I will continue talking about this XD.

I know they have natural energy because only ninja summons have shown to have ninja techniques and it was shown with juubito that animals use natural energy.

Could you show me a caption that explained this please? I really want to see something that explains this. (Also, the dog of Kiba?)

The first one for your theory has a hole and that is kaguya was the first and she didn't give it to anyone so how did people have any form of chakra before hagoromo?

Yeah, but i was talking about evolution, not Kaguya giving them something. I was saying that because of the Natural Energy that existed in Naruto's planet (in some places more than others), the living beings evolved with some form of chakra path or primitive form of chakra (that Kaguya ignored because it was not HER true chakra or whatever). This could explain as to why the genjutsu and the three not only affected people, but animals too.

For your second theory it is slightly plausible but still it has been stated multiple times kaguya put people under genjutsu it is not unlikely that she could put millions of people under genjutsu by herself considering kabuto put a whole stadium of people(likely numbering in the thousands) under genjutsu. She could then put them in the tree and make zetsu's.

About Kabuto, I don't think that he was the only one applying the Genjutsu over the stadium. Remember that there were other ninjas there and they could have put a group effort to make the genjutsu happen to the whole stadium.

About the genjutsu in general: I want to believe that Genjutsu can be applied to people without chakra or chakra paths. Some people and web pages consider the chakra users in Naruto as people that use some form of Life-Force Manipulation, and if chakra in considered as Life-Force, then everybody would be affected by anything.

Also, I think that people that doesn't have chakra and is attacked with a genjutsu, would recieve a more volatile effects. Because genjutsu is affecting the chakra flow of the person by sending their own chakra against the other person and the affected is a person without chakra, the affected would receive a strange energy (chakra) inside their bodies. This strange energy (like any other strange energy that enters in contact with humans (like radiation)) should have some effect one the human body.

@shadowmaster91: Please debate this topic only....

Ye.

@iamoptimusprime: Sorry T_T ..... I love to debate..... XD

Naruto characters can't survive lava (Kaguya's dimension). Lol. And this would be wrongly applied since this is fiction we're speaking of here anyways.

So Kabuto wouldn't have star level durability.

Then focus that love here please rather than derailing the thread. :p

"Flawed arguments"? Are you for real? No.

I provived answer for each one of those, if you want to discuss it instead of just complaining, feel free. There are a lot of things that the guy failed to mention in the video, have you even read what I wrote?

I mean he'd be able to know what he can do.

They had attacks on that scale, but they never used them against Kabuto, so don't wank Kabuto.

And this is in the Null Void, he can fly anywhere he wants.

Cool, how that would help when he had Sakon and Ukon abilities and far superior speed by feats?

Yasaka Magatama, Sasuke's arrow, Enton, Suiryuudan and Goukakyuu no Jutsu aren't house-level? Kabuto countered/tanked/evaded every single one of them effortlessy.

No problem with him flying, eventually he would be tagged so this doesn't matter that much, Kabuto have a lot of long range jutsus and can manipulate the enviroment.

Same would go for Kabuto trying to harm Aggregor.

Again, you forget about radioactive blasts that could potentially give him cancer.

DC isn't everything here.

And Aggregor can electrify that liquid.

I think that you're hyping too much his durability, it's not like Cannonball haven't hurt him, or even FourArms as you've posted. Aggregor have even a weakness for energy based attacks, Kabuto is able to disable movements using chakra discharges on his opponents.

Also, as I've mentioned, Kabuto showed resistance to that kind of attack too in the past. Also, how he would give Kabuto cancer? I mean, if Kabuto days after the fight had cancer, after defeating Aggregor, then it would be a stalemate by this logic?

Tsunade≠Ultimate Aggregor. So don't compare them.

How are his scalpels supposed to bypass his invulnerability? Oh right, they can't.

Tough luck m8, UA has an infinite supply of electricity (he generates it).

He isn't invulnerable, he is far from that, it was shown multiple times that he can be hurt physically or through energy attacks, which he can't absorb as, like it was mentioned in the show, he isn't experienced enough to do it. This also doesn't mean that it's an infinite supply, it will keep being produced, but as soon as he is fatigued, I doubt that he would endure for that much time.

I mentioned that in the OP. But UA can survive in a star. And he can counter-vibrate his own self. So.... is that supposed to kill him? It could immobilize him, sure, but...

Anyways, UA can use energy indefinitely (same as Sage Mode Kabuto). Plus, he's an Osmosian so you should know what this means....

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:DontTalk/Durability_required_to_resist_the_heat_of_the_sun

Not to mention that this calculation doesn't even matter that much, he had Pandor's heat/cold immunity.

Have he ever shown that he can counter-vibrate his own self? How could this even work? Andreas species have shown that they can be damaged by their own vibration if out of control, they even did that in Omniverse, we just gave him a new ability?

And I mentioned the fact of him being an Osmosian, I clearly said in my first post that as long as Kabuto don't let him touch him for more than a few seconds, he should be fine.

I am absolutelydisgusted with your Ben 10 downplaying and Naruto wank at this point........ Not even gonna address any of this RN. Got no patience.

The same thing that I've saw some time ago, well, give me some combat speed feats for Aggregor then to change my mind, I watched that saga a long time ago and haven't rewatched that to post here, so maybe I skipped something. Only keeping up with Ben 10 Omniverse now. Complaining =/= contesting with feats.

Have a good day sir, no need to be this salty. Also, Battle Forum Rules:

Make sure the fight is fair.Do not make a battle with a winner in mind. If the TC (Topic Creator) is the only person insisting that the fight is fair, chances are it isn't. Never show bias as the topic creator; keep your own debating to a minimum. When you make a battle, make sure you are capable of arguing for or against either character, if you need to defend the thread's validity.

The Rules

But if you want to debate or counter anything, feel free, I will be waiting.

What are you talking about? I never mentioned Naruto characters at all. YOU, however, mentioned Aggregor surviving the sun, which is why I responded with my original comment. Also, this applies to real life (but works for fiction only, obviously), just like how we figure how much force is required to, say, destroy the moon with one punch, and so it DOES apply as you yourself are using a real life component (a star) as a measure of UA's durability. It's not my fault that the calc shows that this feat is far lower than it seems. If you want to debunk the calc, then go on the site and debate with its creator on why it's incorrect.

Also, surviving on a star does not give the character star level durability (does surviving in Earth's temperatures give a person planet-level durability?). It just means they can survive a star's temperature (which is different depending on the location on/in the star). And, as the calc says, to do so would require building level durability (for the surface of the sun) and multi city-block level (for the core of the sun).

Oh, and Naruto characters have already survived lava on touch (KCM Naruto, a much weaker form of his, who wasn't even injured when being held by and himself holding a lava arm for several moments). And would you voluntarily let yourself fall into lava even if you could tank it? Personally, I'd avoid it even if I could tank it, but maybe that's just me (and Naruto, as he's shown that he can tank it and yet still wanted to avoid it). Plus, the elements in Kaguya's dimensions have shown to be far stronger than normal, such as her ice, so we can assume that's the same with her lava. (But let's not continue with this particular argument, as this would just make things go off topic).

I honestly think Aggregor is too strong and durable for kabutos attacks. Also don't compare what is probably tsunade's worst showing as though it works perfectly against someone who is waaaayyyyy more durable. He is more durable than anything kabuto can hit him with.

@hiddenlight:

I provived answer for each one of those, if you want to discuss it instead of just complaining, feel free. There are a lot of things that the guy failed to mention in the video, have you even read what I wrote?

No, discuss it in another thread.

Cool, how that would help when he had Sakon and Ukon abilities and far superior speed by feats?

Yasaka Magatama, Sasuke's arrow, Enton, Suiryuudan and Goukakyuu no Jutsu aren't house-level? Kabuto countered/tanked/evaded every single one of them effortlessy.

No problem with him flying, eventually he would be tagged so this doesn't matter that much, Kabuto have a lot of long range jutsus and can manipulate the enviroment.

• He can stay at a distance.
• First one was never used on Kabuto. If those attacks were used on him then shouldn't the cave have collapsed?
• This is the Null Void which is a large place. He won't be tagged so easily.
• "manipulate the enviroment" Tell me something I don't know, I literally stated that in the OP.

I think that you're hyping too much his durability, it's not like Cannonball haven't hurt him, or even FourArms as you've posted. Aggregor have even a weakness for energy based attacks, Kabuto is able to disable movements using chakra discharges on his opponents.

Also, as I've mentioned, Kabuto showed resistance to that kind of attack too in the past. Also, how he would give Kabuto cancer? I mean, if Kabuto days after the fight had cancer, after defeating Aggregor, then it would be a stalemate by this logic?

• The hell? Cannonbolt and Four Arms never once hurt him.
• Weakness for energy-based attacks? FOH. He has a resistance to mana for crying out loud.
• No proof on your end that abilities only used on humans can work on a guy who absorbed 5 different and powerful alien races.
• Radioactivity does that. Never seen any Naruto character tank radioactive sources.

He isn't invulnerable, he is far from that, it was shown multiple times that he can be hurt physically or through energy attacks, which he can't absorb as, like it was mentioned in the show, he isn't experienced enough to do it. This also doesn't mean that it's an infinite supply, it will keep being produced, but as soon as he is fatigued, I doubt that he would endure for that much time.

• "Many times" "Hurt physically or through energy attacks" FOH. None of that was enough to put him down. It was only Ultimate Kevin who did.
• Fatigued? Since when? No proof on your end for that either.

Have he ever shown that he can counter-vibrate his own self? How could this even work? Andreas species have shown that they can be damaged by their own vibration if out of control, they even did that in Omniverse, we just gave him a new ability?

And I mentioned the fact of him being an Osmosian, I clearly said in my first post that as long as Kabuto don't let him touch him for more than a few seconds, he should be fine.

• Didn't Andreas counter-vibrate that bomb that was gonna destroy the castle and everything in it? Also, you downplay his DC given that the wiki states and shows that he (and anyone else from his race) can even rupture the ground with no effort and cause huge earthquakes. And if that isn't enough, he can split the ground open with no trouble. So Idk why you think that this won't make a difference. Also this isn't just his species. So no he won't be damaged.
• Tendrils... remember?

The same thing that I've saw some time ago, well, give me some combat speed feats for Aggregor then to change my mind, I watched that saga a long time ago and haven't rewatched that to post here, so maybe I skipped something. Only keeping up with Ben 10 Omniverse now. Complaining =/= contesting with feats.

• Not even needed tbh. In that case, re-watch it so that you can know what you're talking about.

Have a good day sir, no need to be this salty. Also, Battle Forum Rules:

How am I contradicting the rules? I literally stated my reasons for why this would be a fair fight, and I'm only countering your not-so-informed downplaying of Aggregor's new abilities. I said that he won't be able to kill Kabuto, and that Kabuto has some dangerous abilities of his own (which you just decided to blow out of proportion). I even put it in a location where Kabuto has a huge advantage (Null Void, lots of Nature energy and environment to control).

Thanks, I'm glad you see my point lol

Though Kabuto has regen and liquefaction to match Aggregor's immense durability :p

@shadowmaster91

I like to learn new things, so I will continue talking about this XD.

Alright.

Could you show me a caption that explained this please? I really want to see something that explains this. (Also, the dog of Kiba?)

Actually I am sorry, while searching for it I caught my self in a lie. Not all animals use it hust certain senjutsu using summons like the toads.

Also natural energy is not inside just anyone or any animal they have to either have high natural energy resovoirs like the ryuuchi cave with the snakes or be naturally versed in it like the toads or juugos clan.

So no animals and people had no energy before the sage spread ninshuu and chakra. It was only in natural phenomena not evolved creatures like animals and humans. Sorry for the misinformation.

Yeah, but i was talking about evolution, not Kaguya giving them something. I was saying that because of the Natural Energy that existed in Naruto's planet (in some places more than others), the living beings evolved with some form of chakra path or primitive form of chakra (that Kaguya ignored because it was not HER true chakra or whatever). This could explain as to why the genjutsu and the three not only affected people, but animals too.

As I showed above when I proved my self wrong only people with the natural ability to control it or reservoirs have natural energy in them and control. So no they could not have evolved with some energy before the sage as they couldn't use it or even know its around them. This also contributes to the proof as to why genjutsu works on people without chakra as it worked on animals with no form of energy.

About Kabuto, I don't think that he was the only one applying the Genjutsu over the stadium. Remember that there were other ninjas there and they could have put a group effort to make the genjutsu happen to the whole stadium.

It is possible other ninjas helped but they would have had to be fodder putting in nearly no contribution as orochimaru, the sound four, and baki were waiting for his signal so overall kabuto would have contributed nearly the entire genjutsu meaning he put thousands in genjutsu. This again adds to the fact that kaguya a person thousands of times stronger(literally) should be able to put millions under.

About the genjutsu in general: I want to believe that Genjutsu can be applied to people without chakra or chakra paths. Some people and web pages consider the chakra users in Naruto as people that use some form of Life-Force Manipulation, and if chakra in considered as Life-Force, then everybody would be affected by anything.

Chakra is a form of life force in naruto but it is also the energy from which they get their power that only they have so this is slightly right.

Also, I think that people that doesn't have chakra and is attacked with a genjutsu, would recieve a more volatile effects. Because genjutsu is affecting the chakra flow of the person by sending their own chakra against the other person and the affected is a person without chakra, the affected would receive a strange energy (chakra) inside their bodies. This strange energy (like any other strange energy that enters in contact with humans (like radiation)) should have some effect one the human body.

It is possible that a genjutsu user (such as itachi) would put someone outside of naruto under a genjutsu by forcing his chakra into them and they will feel the energy and experience side effects as they would have never felt this before. It is a plausible theory as after kaguya put humans without chakra into genjutsu we don't know what the sage did to get them to normal so its possible they experienced effects we don't know about. So yes this is possible that they will experience side effects, we won't know what they are but we know it's possible. However even knowing a strange energy is affecting them and putting them under an illusion without knowing how to break it or having sufficient tp resistance feats they will succomb to genjutsu exactly like kakashi against itachi.

At least thats my take on genjutsu and those theories of yours.

@neongamewave@micah@lowlaville@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk

*sees controversial link regarding Genjutsu*

*Clicks link and loads youtube video*

*Look at the first comment*

*Sees this reply from the creator of video*

Suffice to say, I did not watch the video, for pretty obvious reasons.

@just_banter: He had a dispute with him.

Oh, and the guy edited his comment fully to make it look like he did nothing wrong....when he did...

@iamoptimusprime: Really? Then would you care to enlighten me on what the original post contained? There honestly aren't many things he could of said to garner a response like what he got.

It was months ago and G+ doesn't keep logs for crap, not to mention nobody thought he'd do that, so it's out of anyone's memory. :/

Kabuto could pull off a win but I think Ultimate Aggregor will have the majority.

Do you think Kabuto would kill him though?

@hiddenlight: Him resisting full force blows from Humungousaur and not feeling anything afterwards>>>>>>The ignorance you're displaying.

@iamoptimusprimesaid:

And since when Kabuto relies on concussive damage against his opponents? And what this means about his speed, which is what I've been asking since the beginning? Blunt force durability =/= Cutting Durability =/= Enviroment durability, the high end feat posted was the Sun's feat and it has been debunked here already. I will wait for speed feats, have a good day sir.

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@hiddenlight said:

@iamoptimusprimesaid:

@hiddenlight: Him resisting full force blows from Humungousaur and not feeling anything afterwards>>>>>>The ignorance you're displaying.

And since when Kabuto relies on concussive damage against his opponents? And what this means about his speed, which is what I've been asking since the beginning? Blunt force durability =/= Cutting Durability =/= Enviroment durability, the high end feat posted was the Sun's feat and it has been debunked here already. I will wait for speed feats, have a good day sir.

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My response:

You're basing everything on speed? How much more desperate can you get?

Not to mention that even with the scans you posted, he still didn't get harmed until his powers were taken away.

Possibly but I don`t see it happening.

Also, he has Galapagus, whose species are immune to mana.

Which could be equated to chakra. Not sure though.

@iamoptimusprime: Pure mana. But against "magic" fire or "magic" acid?

Don't see any reason why it'd work. :/