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#1 Edited by k4tzm4n (36394 posts) - - Show Bio
Sagat  VS Daredevil 
 

Location


 

Unpopulated

 

Rules

 
-Characters begin 10 feet apart. 
-Morals apply. 
-Elimination by all standard methods. 


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#2 Posted by Anjales (339 posts) - - Show Bio

i think DD cuz imo  Matt is a match for Ryu and Ryu can beat Sagat...and by current you mean as the leader of the hand with black suit but no wrist blades right? if that's the case DD has become more ruthless and deadly and i think he might seriously hurt Saggat and possibly kill him imo
#3 Posted by k4tzm4n (36394 posts) - - Show Bio
@Anjales:
To be fair, we can only speculate if DD would be as ruthless as he was against Bullseye.  There was quite a history between the two and the last time Bullseye escaped DD hundreds of innocents died.
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#4 Posted by Anjales (339 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n:
yeah maybe Bullseye is an exception but maybe after killing Bullseye, DD started enjoying killing and this has him bloodlusted and seeking more blood. Besides, he is shown even after killing Bullseye that he has become darker and more agressive, this is just my opinion. Maybe he wont kill Sagat but i think he can seriously injure him.
#5 Posted by k4tzm4n (36394 posts) - - Show Bio
@Anjales:
I get what you mean, but I don't believe Daredevil is now "okay" with killing.  After all, he'd kill the regular thugs he encounters too ;) 
 
While I agree he's more brutal, I don't think he's developed a taste for blood...YET! lol 
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#6 Posted by Anjales (339 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n:
i guess ure right...but with the direction Shadowland is taking i think it'll be sooner than later when DD starts chopping heads :P
So for now i'll stick with he'll seriously injure Sagat but no killing him:)
#7 Posted by k4tzm4n (36394 posts) - - Show Bio
@Anjales:
Well, elimination CAN be by KO or incapacitation ;)
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#8 Posted by FinalStar86 (8681 posts) - - Show Bio

Sagat is too much for Matt

#9 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5376 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil can beat Sagat, not easily though

#10 Posted by NickA (2216 posts) - - Show Bio
@FinalStar86:
please explain
#11 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody will be able to prove that Sagat can beat Murdock.Sagat doesn't have enough feats in any medium to compare.

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#12 Posted by King Saturn (223807 posts) - - Show Bio
Daredevil will more than likely win this fight... wont be easy... but I think Sagat will have trouble landing any crucial blows on Matt due to his superior agility and quickness... 
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#13 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio

Sagat 's raw power and Technique would edge out a win agianst DD.....

 

 


 

#14 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lantern Prime said:
"

Sagat 's raw power and Technique would edge out a win agianst DD.....

 

 


 

"
Neither one of those can you prove will be effective against Daredevil.Alot of characters he fights have raw power and alot of them lose too.
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#15 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @Lantern Prime said:
"

Sagat 's raw power and Technique would edge out a win agianst DD.....

 

 


 

"
Neither one of those can you prove will be effective against Daredevil.Alot of characters he fights have raw power and alot of them lose too. "

Hes alos techincal if you can'tprove that ain't true then thats your problem....
#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lantern Prime said:
Hes alos techincal if you can'tprove that ain't true then thats your problem.... "
I'm not the one who needs to prove anything.I know what Daredevil can do.I'm doubting you can provide the proof that would suggest Sagat can beat him.You can't prove he can win, that's YOU problem because YOU made the claim.
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#17 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @Lantern Prime said:
Hes alos techincal if you can'tprove that ain't true then thats your problem.... "
I'm not the one who needs to prove anything.I know what Daredevil can do.I'm doubting you can provide the proof that would suggest Sagat can beat him.You can't prove he can win, that's YOU problem because YOU made the claim. "

But you haven't really made a case on how Dardevil wins.....See...now there we go again....
#18 Edited by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lantern Prime said:

" @Vance Astro said:

" @Lantern Prime said:
Hes alos techincal if you can'tprove that ain't true then thats your problem.... "
I'm not the one who needs to prove anything.I know what Daredevil can do.I'm doubting you can provide the proof that would suggest Sagat can beat him.You can't prove he can win, that's YOU problem because YOU made the claim. "
But you haven't really made a case on how Dardevil wins.....See...now there we go again.... "
Because i'm not making a case for him winning I never was.Read my post.I said nobody will be able to provide evidence for Sagat winning and it's obvious since nobody has..and also since i've seen Sagat in just about every possible medium.I have the SVC comics,all the Street fighter comics,every single game even that corny ass arcade game.I don't see anything that suggests Sagat can beat Daredevil.You're dodging posting evidence because you and I both know you have nothing.
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#19 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"@Lantern Prime said:

" @Vance Astro said:

" @Lantern Prime said:
Hes alos techincal if you can'tprove that ain't true then thats your problem.... "
I'm not the one who needs to prove anything.I know what Daredevil can do.I'm doubting you can provide the proof that would suggest Sagat can beat him.You can't prove he can win, that's YOU problem because YOU made the claim. "
But you haven't really made a case on how Dardevil wins.....See...now there we go again.... "
Because i'm not making a case for him winning I never was.Read my post.I said nobody will be able to provide evidence for Sagat winning and it's obvious since nobody has..and also since i've seen Sagat in just about every possible medium.I have the SVC comics,all the Street fighter comics,every single game even that corny ass arcade game.I don't see anything that suggests Sagat can beat Daredevil.You're dodging posting evidence because you and I both know you have nothing. "

Tiger Knees to the Fu@#in head FTW! How about that?.... 
 
Because your not bringin anythng worthwhile in your statement.....
#20 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio

here goes....

#21 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

Sagat has beaten Ryu, to clear that up, but this would be a tough one to call.  Daredevil could use his senses to avoid being tagged by Sagat, 'cause one hit from Sagat and DD would fall with one-shot.  Sagat's a hell of a lot larger, and muscular, so I don't know if DD would be able to just take him down with a nerve strike, especially since Sagat, being a master of Muay-Thai, could block using elbows.  Daredevil is one of the best acrobatics around, but if he even thought of flipping fancily over Sagat, it'd be TIGER...UPPERCUT! Time, Sagat wins.
#22 Edited by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

"Nobody will be able to prove that Sagat can beat Murdock.Sagat doesn't have enough feats in any medium to compare. "


Arthur Galt: "Who gives a shi+?!" 

Feats mean nothign if thers PIS and CIS to em.  
 
 
Were talking hypothetical of them meeting with both of them not ever knowing eachother and fighting of styles and how each fight......

#23 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

   
#24 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:
"
    "

Im going with him as well...
#25 Edited by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lantern Prime said:

" @Vance Astro said:

"Nobody will be able to prove that Sagat can beat Murdock.Sagat doesn't have enough feats in any medium to compare. "


Arthur Galt: "Who gives a shi+?!" 

Feats mean nothign if thers PIS and CIS to em.  
 
 
Were talking hypothetical of them meeting with both of them not ever knowing eachother and fighting of styles and how each fight......

"
Quoting some random person doesn't make you right.You can THINK Sagat will when but you have 0 reference to prove it.Every fight in battle forums is hypothetical.It doesn't mean you don't have to prove your claims.Daredevil has years of feats that aren't PIS or CIS so stop making excuses as to why you can't prove your case.It really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you can or can't because I knew you couldn't before you even posted.In fact it doesn't matter what character it was..you wouldn't be able to prove your case..because you NEVER have.
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#26 Edited by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:

" Sagat has beaten Ryu, to clear that up, but this would be a tough one to call.  Daredevil could use his senses to avoid being tagged by Sagat, 'cause one hit from Sagat and DD would fall with one-shot.  Sagat's a hell of a lot larger, and muscular, so I don't know if DD would be able to just take him down with a nerve strike, especially since Sagat, being a master of Muay-Thai, could block using elbows.  Daredevil is one of the best acrobatics around, but if he even thought of flipping fancily over Sagat, it'd be TIGER...UPPERCUT! Time, Sagat wins. "

Are you serious? You really think that someone with no actual strength feats can one-shot someone who has been hit by characters with recorded superhuman level strength and not been knocked out? Sagat in canon beat a young Ryu before the SF2 storyline.I don't really see how it's relevant.In fact I would wager that Daredevil could have beaten a young Ryu.This was before Ryu owned Sagat and scarred him for life. Sagat being larger and more muscular doesn't mean he's stronger than Daredevil.Daredevil actually has showings of strength..Sagat does not. Why wouldn't DD be able to take Sagat out with a nerve strike? He's done it to people more durable than Sagat.Sagat is a human, he has nerves and getting struck there will KO him.Nerve strikes don't cease working because someone is buff. Sagat isn't going to outskill Daredevil in a fight either. Most of the people that have..have years and years of actual showings of skill and have mastered several styles.
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#27 Posted by kingofallrobots (16 posts) - - Show Bio

 Daredevil 

#28 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"@progenitor said:

" Sagat has beaten Ryu, to clear that up, but this would be a tough one to call.  Daredevil could use his senses to avoid being tagged by Sagat, 'cause one hit from Sagat and DD would fall with one-shot.  Sagat's a hell of a lot larger, and muscular, so I don't know if DD would be able to just take him down with a nerve strike, especially since Sagat, being a master of Muay-Thai, could block using elbows.  Daredevil is one of the best acrobatics around, but if he even thought of flipping fancily over Sagat, it'd be TIGER...UPPERCUT! Time, Sagat wins. "

Are you serious? You really think that someone with no actual strength feats can one-shot someone who has been hit by characters with recorded superhuman level strength and not been knocked out? Sagat in canon beat a young Ryu before the SF2 storyline.I don't really see how it's relevant.In fact I would wager that Daredevil could have beaten a young Ryu.This was before Ryu owned Sagat and scarred him for life. Sagat being larger and more muscular doesn't mean he's stronger than Daredevil.Daredevil actually has showings of strength..Sagat does not. Why wouldn't DD be able to take Sagat out with a nerve strike? He's done it to people more durable than Sagat.Sagat is a human, he has nerves and getting struck there will KO him.Nerve strikes don't cease working because someone is buff. Sagat isn't going to outskill Daredevil in a fight either. Most of the people that have..have years and years of actual showings of skill and have mastered several styles. "
  
  
That would be a huge tree trunk that he's lifting and Muay Thai kneeing at the same time, btw.

 
 
 
So let me get this straight.  Your argument is that because Sagat hasn't, in your opinion, shown any proof of his great strength in accordance to his massive physique and musculature? In comparison to someone like Daredevil who can pass off as a normal every-day blind joe? Consider that Sagat has ki-based attacks, and most of his ki-based attacks consist of flame, so you're telling me that Sagat couldn't throw off Daredevil's senses with a ki assault, and then simply utilize Muay Thai and put him in the clinch, effectively kneeing him in the face until he's unconscious?  
 
Let me help you to understand something.  You don't need to ask for exact measurements between Daredevil and Sagat to realize that Sagat has not only a weight advantage, but a reach advantage.  Sagat isn't just a lumbering brute, he has incredible skill which has for the longest time been unparalleled in Muay Thai.  And it doesn't matter what other martial arts you know, if you master a skill enough to know exactly how to defeat your foe, there's not much you can do about switching techniques.  Take Anderson "The Spider" Silva for example, from the UFC.  Undefeated, and a majority of his wins are based on Muay Thai clinches and knees.  With Sagat's length, heigh, and reach, as well as his ki-based attacks, having already defeated Ryu, killed Dan Hibiki's father, trained the deadly fighter Adon.  Sagat is fully capable of defeating Daredevil.
#29 Posted by NickA (2216 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor:
They are not going to listen 
They are the same people who think Daredevil can beat Ermac, Kenshi, Sub Zero, & Scorpion  with all their powers and abilities
#30 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:
" @Vance Astro said:
"@progenitor said:

" Sagat has beaten Ryu, to clear that up, but this would be a tough one to call.  Daredevil could use his senses to avoid being tagged by Sagat, 'cause one hit from Sagat and DD would fall with one-shot.  Sagat's a hell of a lot larger, and muscular, so I don't know if DD would be able to just take him down with a nerve strike, especially since Sagat, being a master of Muay-Thai, could block using elbows.  Daredevil is one of the best acrobatics around, but if he even thought of flipping fancily over Sagat, it'd be TIGER...UPPERCUT! Time, Sagat wins. "

Are you serious? You really think that someone with no actual strength feats can one-shot someone who has been hit by characters with recorded superhuman level strength and not been knocked out? Sagat in canon beat a young Ryu before the SF2 storyline.I don't really see how it's relevant.In fact I would wager that Daredevil could have beaten a young Ryu.This was before Ryu owned Sagat and scarred him for life. Sagat being larger and more muscular doesn't mean he's stronger than Daredevil.Daredevil actually has showings of strength..Sagat does not. Why wouldn't DD be able to take Sagat out with a nerve strike? He's done it to people more durable than Sagat.Sagat is a human, he has nerves and getting struck there will KO him.Nerve strikes don't cease working because someone is buff. Sagat isn't going to outskill Daredevil in a fight either. Most of the people that have..have years and years of actual showings of skill and have mastered several styles. "
  
  
That would be a huge tree trunk that he's lifting and Muay Thai kneeing at the same time, btw.

   So let me get this straight.  Your argument is that because Sagat hasn't, in your opinion, shown any proof of his great strength in accordance to his massive physique and musculature? In comparison to someone like Daredevil who can pass off as a normal every-day blind joe? Consider that Sagat has ki-based attacks, and most of his ki-based attacks consist of flame, so you're telling me that Sagat couldn't throw off Daredevil's senses with a ki assault, and then simply utilize Muay Thai and put him in the clinch, effectively kneeing him in the face until he's unconscious?   Let me help you to understand something.  You don't need to ask for exact measurements between Daredevil and Sagat to realize that Sagat has not only a weight advantage, but a reach advantage.  Sagat isn't just a lumbering brute, he has incredible skill which has for the longest time been unparalleled in Muay Thai.  And it doesn't matter what other martial arts you know, if you master a skill enough to know exactly how to defeat your foe, there's not much you can do about switching techniques.  Take Anderson "The Spider" Silva for example, from the UFC.  Undefeated, and a majority of his wins are based on Muay Thai clinches and knees.  With Sagat's length, heigh, and reach, as well as his ki-based attacks, having already defeated Ryu, killed Dan Hibiki's father, trained the deadly fighter Adon.  Sagat is fully capable of defeating Daredevil. "
 
I've seen Sagat deliver hard blows in the comics in his fights with Adon and Ryu.None of which show that he could one shot Daredevil.Sagat doesn't have any real strength feats.At the very least he hasn't proven to be among the strongest that Daredevil has fought and defeated.I don't know what Daredevil passing for normal has to do with anything.He's anything but normal. Why you think a Tiger Shot would be effective against Daredevil is beyond me as well. Daredevil has shown acrobatically he can keep up with the likes of Spider-Man. He's dodged Shotgun shells, gunshots, machine gun fire, gatling gun fire, lasers, optic blasts, fireballs. You name it. He's fought people with better energy projection than Sagat and won. Sagat's Tiger shot may consist of flames but Daredevil has beaten Pyro and more than once if i'm not mistaken.Daredevil has also fought in and escaped buildings engulfed in flames. I know Sagat isn't just a lumbering brute.I've read all of the comics and played all of the games.I'm a huge Street Fighter fan.I don't see anything he's done that suggests he's a better fighter than Daredevil though or even close. Size and weight advantage doesn't do much against Daredevil.He deals with that all the time.His senses allow him to know an attack is coming and dodge it easily and since Sagat has really shown nothing for speed it's not outlandish to assume DD will dodge him as easily as he does everyone else.Killing Dan's father,Defeating a younger Ryu than the one that completely owned him and training Adon doesn't mean you can beat Daredevil.Those feats are pretty mediocre honestly.
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#31 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

"This is the story of Sagat, rather the lessons of Sagat. As the story starts we see Hugo's diesel truck parked outside of a temple in the heart of Thailand. Hugo is taking swings at Sagat. Although he towers over the mighty Thai, he is unable to land a solid hit on him. Sagat is motionless and allows Hugo to throw punches that don't seem to faze him. In a fit of anger Hugo lifts the stone head of a Buddha and throws it down on Sagat. It shatters into a million pieces and this gets a reaction. Sagat takes down the mighty giant with one kick. He then remembers his life of fighting." 
 
 
"We are taken back to a period in time when Sagat was at his most dangerous. He had survived the dragon punch from Ryu and was recovering in Thailand. Furious with himself he takes his aggression out in the jungle. Knocking down trees and trying to make his techniques stronger. Adon watches from a distance, ashamed that the tiny Ryu could have done this to his master. Although bandaged up Sagat has a would that will not heal. He doesn't stop long enough to think about the consequences of his actions until he accidentally knocks a tree down onto a child. He takes the child to a temple where the monks take him in and try to help. The monks warn Sagat of what he is becoming."
   
#32 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:
"
"This is the story of Sagat, rather the lessons of Sagat. As the story starts we see Hugo's diesel truck parked outside of a temple in the heart of Thailand. Hugo is taking swings at Sagat. Although he towers over the mighty Thai, he is unable to land a solid hit on him. Sagat is motionless and allows Hugo to throw punches that don't seem to faze him. In a fit of anger Hugo lifts the stone head of a Buddha and throws it down on Sagat. It shatters into a million pieces and this gets a reaction. Sagat takes down the mighty giant with one kick. He then remembers his life of fighting." 
 
 
"We are taken back to a period in time when Sagat was at his most dangerous. He had survived the dragon punch from Ryu and was recovering in Thailand. Furious with himself he takes his aggression out in the jungle. Knocking down trees and trying to make his techniques stronger. Adon watches from a distance, ashamed that the tiny Ryu could have done this to his master. Although bandaged up Sagat has a would that will not heal. He doesn't stop long enough to think about the consequences of his actions until he accidentally knocks a tree down onto a child. He takes the child to a temple where the monks take him in and try to help. The monks warn Sagat of what he is becoming."
    "


That doesn't sound at all mediocre to me.  I never said I thought Sagat would rely on energy projection to defeat Daredevil, but at the most, I would put Daredevil on the same level as Fei Long.  Sagat is just so much more different than the people Daredevil usually face, who is that huge, powerful, focused, and fast? Along with superior reach, height, and overall musculature? Sagat is renown in Thailand as being the world champion, I call that being enough of a feat seeing as he's had to defeat many to claim that right.  And he's beaten Ryu, who is pound for pound probably the most focused, determined and talented fighter in the SF universe.
#33 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:
That doesn't sound at all mediocre to me.  I never said I thought Sagat would rely on energy projection to defeat Daredevil, but at the most, I would put Daredevil on the same level as Fei Long.  Sagat is just so much more different than the people Daredevil usually face, who is that huge, powerful, focused, and fast? Along with superior reach, height, and overall musculature? Sagat is renown in Thailand as being the world champion, I call that being enough of a feat seeing as he's had to defeat many to claim that right.  And he's beaten Ryu, who is pound for pound probably the most focused, determined and talented fighter in the SF universe. "
It is mediocre.He beat someone whose skill level we don't know, He trained Adon who also has mediocre feats,in canon i'm not sure he's even beaten anyone and in the comics he's lost both the fights I remember him in against Sagat and Ryu. Sagat isn't that much different than anyone Daredevil has ever faced. Daredevil has easily beaten Mr.Hyde whom is not only bigger than Sagat, he lifts over 50 tons. Daredevil has also bested U.S Agent who is not only a trained fighter but by the Power Broker is superhuman on all levels including speed and strength. Being the best in Thailand is great for SF.Not in Marvel. Daredevil has defeated many and beaten people whom themselves have alot of credible showings in combat.After looking over Street Fighter: The Eternal Challenge (book based on SF games and storylines) Sagat never actually beat Ryu.In the first SF tournament they faced each other..Sagat was winning against Ryu which caused him to tap into the Satsui No Hadou and hit him with the uppercut that wounded him which led to the fight with Adon in the Alpha series because Adon then though he could beat Sagat (which he did).Sagat and Ryu never had a true rematch in any Street Fighter game.
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#34 Posted by Tesseract (872 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil

#35 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @progenitor said:
That doesn't sound at all mediocre to me.  I never said I thought Sagat would rely on energy projection to defeat Daredevil, but at the most, I would put Daredevil on the same level as Fei Long.  Sagat is just so much more different than the people Daredevil usually face, who is that huge, powerful, focused, and fast? Along with superior reach, height, and overall musculature? Sagat is renown in Thailand as being the world champion, I call that being enough of a feat seeing as he's had to defeat many to claim that right.  And he's beaten Ryu, who is pound for pound probably the most focused, determined and talented fighter in the SF universe. "
It is mediocre.He beat someone whose skill level we don't know, He trained Adon who also has mediocre feats,in canon i'm not sure he's even beaten anyone and in the comics he's lost both the fights I remember him in against Sagat and Ryu. Sagat isn't that much different than anyone Daredevil has ever faced. Daredevil has easily beaten Mr.Hyde whom is not only bigger than Sagat, he lifts over 50 tons. Daredevil has also bested U.S Agent who is not only a trained fighter but by the Power Broker is superhuman on all levels including speed and strength. Being the best in Thailand is great for SF.Not in Marvel. Daredevil has defeated many and beaten people whom themselves have alot of credible showings in combat.After looking over Street Fighter: The Eternal Challenge (book based on SF games and storylines) Sagat never actually beat Ryu.In the first SF tournament they faced each other..Sagat was winning against Ryu which caused him to tap into the Satsui No Hadou and hit him with the uppercut that wounded him which led to the fight with Adon in the Alpha series because Adon then though he could beat Sagat (which he did).Sagat and Ryu never had a true rematch in any Street Fighter game. "

Still, you asked for feats of strength.  I would call lifting a huge tree trunk and practicing Muay Thai knees on that pretty damn powerful, unless i'm missing out on something.  I would also call knocking out Hugo, a famous powerful wrestler who's power scale we're not even sure of, and knocking him out with one kick, while his mind was elsewhere.  During his anger, he went through a forest smashing through trees in anger to try and make himself even stronger.  When has Daredevil done anything strength-wise remotely comparable to any of those mentioned? There's no way of even telling who's faster between Daredevil and Sagat, but I would pretty confidently say that I think Sagat is stronger than Daredevil.  Mr. Hyde isn't exactly the most advanced H2H fighter, either.  He's pretty much a simple brawler.  Sagat actually has Muay Thai down to a T, he's mastered it.  If Daredevil were to try and use his acrobatics around Sagat, it's not exactly like it would be easy to stay out of Sagat's reach, I mean one roundhouse kick or rightly timed uppercut and Daredevil would be down.  It would be hard enough staying out of Sagat's reach.  If someone like Hugo, who would probably even tower over Mr. Hyde, was raining down blows on Sagat that did absolutely nothing, what could Daredevil do that would be different? And if Sagat managed to get Daredevil in a Muay Thai clinch, then what? That's a notorious dangerous position, and the usual defense is attempting to uppercut between the clinched arms, but with the height advantage of Sagat, I can't see Daredevil being so successful at that, so what's to stop Sagat from just kneeing Daredevil into the face until he's unconscious? A strong enough clinch is nearly inescapable, no matter how agile you are, it's your head being trapped in a vice lock.
#36 Posted by Manchine (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I don't see Daredevil being an equal to Sagat/Ryu/Akuma.  That would be more Captain America level of fighting.  I think it would be a good match for the next teir down in Street Fighter (Guile/Cammy/Vega).

#37 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

You know, maybe it's just me, i'm just about two months new to this site, and i've had this kind of debate before.  Is there some kind of general agreement that someone from Marvel or DCU trumps all other universes, regardless of feats? Because I honestly don't understand, being a SF fan yourself, how you could call what I showed for Sagat mediocre, is it just me? I mean am I just not understanding part of the debating process in this forum?
#38 Edited by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:

" You know, maybe it's just me, i'm just about two months new to this site, and i've had this kind of debate before.  Is there some kind of general agreement that someone from Marvel or DCU trumps all other universes, regardless of feats? Because I honestly don't understand, being a SF fan yourself, how you could call what I showed for Sagat mediocre, is it just me? I mean am I just not understanding part of the debating process in this forum? "

What do you mean, regardless of feats.I made a comparison.Sagat isn't mediocre.That's not what I said.I said his feats are mediocre and they are.I'm making a case based on SF canon and what is shown in comics and other mediums.You can't honestly believe the 3 feats you named mean that Sagat can beat Daredevil.When I gave you instances in DD's history where he's overcome better odds than what Sagat can dish out.Also one of those feats never even happened.I see nothing provided that suggest Sagat can win.
 
 

@progenitor

said:

Still, you asked for feats of strength.  I would call lifting a huge tree trunk and practicing Muay Thai knees on that pretty damn powerful, unless i'm missing out on something.  I would also call knocking out Hugo, a famous powerful wrestler who's power scale we're not even sure of, and knocking him out with one kick, while his mind was elsewhere.  During his anger, he went through a forest smashing through trees in anger to try and make himself even stronger.  When has Daredevil done anything strength-wise remotely comparable to any of those mentioned? There's no way of even telling who's faster between Daredevil and Sagat, but I would pretty confidently say that I think Sagat is stronger than Daredevil.  Mr. Hyde isn't exactly the most advanced H2H fighter, either.  He's pretty much a simple brawler.  Sagat actually has Muay Thai down to a T, he's mastered it.  If Daredevil were to try and use his acrobatics around Sagat, it's not exactly like it would be easy to stay out of Sagat's reach, I mean one roundhouse kick or rightly timed uppercut and Daredevil would be down.  It would be hard enough staying out of Sagat's reach.  If someone like Hugo, who would probably even tower over Mr. Hyde, was raining down blows on Sagat that did absolutely nothing, what could Daredevil do that would be different? And if Sagat managed to get Daredevil in a Muay Thai clinch, then what? That's a notorious dangerous position, and the usual defense is attempting to uppercut between the clinched arms, but with the height advantage of Sagat, I can't see Daredevil being so successful at that, so what's to stop Sagat from just kneeing Daredevil into the face until he's unconscious? A strong enough clinch is nearly inescapable, no matter how agile you are, it's your head being trapped in a vice lock. "

I agree.That is powerful.That is a good showing of strength. However Daredevil has beaten stronger fighters.Yes, Sagat knocked out Hugo (not canon,but no medium was specified) however that's no better than Daredevil almost beating Mr.Hyde. Hugo is a famous Wrestler because of his strength.He's not very skilled (definitely not as skilled as Sagat) and he's not very smart either. In canon,Sagat's anger caused him to lose to Adon...his own student. Daredevil's strength isn't his biggest asset. That's why he uses nerve strikes.He doesn't need to be stronger than Sagat to beat him. Sagat can be stronger than Daredevil.It doesn't matter.I just mentioned a character who Daredevil has beaten..in fact more than once too whom is far stronger than Sagat. Mr.Hyde isn't a great fighter..I know. I wasn't using him to say he is more skilled than Sagat or a good fighter at all.I was using him to say that Daredevil has fought and beaten character whom are stronger which is why I also mentioned U.S Agent who trumps Sagat in just about all areas and is also a skilled and trained fighter. You're over-exaggerating Sagat's reach too. A punch is a punch.If Daredevil can keep himself out of harms way when dodging things that move faster than punches..I don't see how reach is even a factor. If DD sees it coming (which he will) he's dodging it.It's that simple. I don't know what will happen if DD gets in a Muy Thai clinch.I don't know why you think it can feasibly happen either. Daredevil has shown he can hurt stronger and more durable opponents,Daredevil has shown he can take fighters who are masters of many styles that also have years and years of feats of their own. Daredevil has shown that he can easily keep up with the best acrobatically and that he can dodge things far faster than punches.He's even been accused of having telepathy because of his level of awareness and ability to perceive attacks. I don't see how Sagat has ever been shown to be skilled enough to hang with Daredevil.
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#39 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@Manchine said:
" Personally I don't see Daredevil being an equal to Sagat/Ryu/Akuma.  That would be more Captain America level of fighting.  I think it would be a good match for the next teir down in Street Fighter (Guile/Cammy/Vega). "
Sagat/Akuma/Ryu aren't even on the same level.In fact I think Guile is better than Sagat.
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#40 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil wins,but Sagat isnt going down without a fight

#41 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@NickA said:
" @progenitor: They are not going to listen They are the same people who think Daredevil can beat Ermac, Kenshi, Sub Zero, & Scorpion  with all their powers and abilities "
We actually believe that because it's actually true.
And DD wins btw.
=]
#42 Posted by NickA (2216 posts) - - Show Bio

 @spidey 15: 
 
How the hell is Daredevil going to someone who has telekinesis and the power to freeze molecules

#43 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@NickA said:
"

 @spidey 15: 
 
How the hell is Daredevil going to someone who has telekinesis and the power to freeze molecules

"
Why are you making cases for MK characters when there are none in this thread?
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#44 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know about freezing molecules or anything along the like, but Sagat would take Daredevil.  Sagat is too smart to allow Daredevil to just reach in for nerve strikes, and logically, if Daredevil were to go up close for an attack, as beforementioned, he would get caught in a Muay Thai clinch.  Daredevil may have bested people like USAgent, but IMHO, he's always been a second-rate Cap with half the combat experience.  Sagat would catch Daredevil and one knee that he uses to smash trees would put Daredevil down, and those knees definitely aren't slow, especially not when he took Hugo down with a kick without even showing him moving from his standing position.
#45 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:
" I don't know about freezing molecules or anything along the like, but Sagat would take Daredevil.  Sagat is too smart to allow Daredevil to just reach in for nerve strikes, and logically, if Daredevil were to go up close for an attack, as beforementioned, he would get caught in a Muay Thai clinch.  Daredevil may have bested people like USAgent, but IMHO, he's always been a second-rate Cap with half the combat experience.  Sagat would catch Daredevil and one knee that he uses to smash trees would put Daredevil down, and those knees definitely aren't slow, especially not when he took Hugo down with a kick without even showing him moving from his standing position. "
Daredevil is smarter than Sagat and according to feats more skilled.
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#46 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @progenitor said:
" I don't know about freezing molecules or anything along the like, but Sagat would take Daredevil.  Sagat is too smart to allow Daredevil to just reach in for nerve strikes, and logically, if Daredevil were to go up close for an attack, as beforementioned, he would get caught in a Muay Thai clinch.  Daredevil may have bested people like USAgent, but IMHO, he's always been a second-rate Cap with half the combat experience.  Sagat would catch Daredevil and one knee that he uses to smash trees would put Daredevil down, and those knees definitely aren't slow, especially not when he took Hugo down with a kick without even showing him moving from his standing position. "
Daredevil is smarter than Sagat and according to feats more skilled. "

I agree with you on that Daredevil is definitely smarter, but combat-wise Sagat isn't likely to make too many mistakes, and like I said, the only way I could really see Daredevil getting the best of Sagat would be using nerve-strikes, and I think Sagat could defend well enough against that.  It doesn't take too much to get Sagat bloodlusted, and if he went into a frenzy with elbows, knees and kicks, there's a good chance he could tag Daredevil at least once, and that would be enough to put Daredevil down.  Daredevil has more feats when it comes to having faced more various enemies in his career as a vigilante, but physically, Sagat has more impressive feats and capabilities.
#47 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

 
 
Although you made a good point that Daredevil is an acrobat, and has incredible sensory detection, but I don't think that means he couldn't get hit with a Tiger shot.  

      
 
This, in itself, I think is a feat, considering Sagat took numerous gunshots in his hand without so much as flinching, and stating that he could have easily killed the poacher that fired the shots.  I'm a pretty big fan of Daredevil myself, and TBPF, I prefer Adon to Sagat, but I still think in a combat situation he's an absolute beast.  I don't see anything that Daredevil could do that could take him down or hurt him.  I mean, it took Ryu reaching inward with his darkness to unleash an energy-based Shoryuken just to gain the upper hand and wound Sagat.
#48 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" @progenitor said:
" I don't know about freezing molecules or anything along the like, but Sagat would take Daredevil.  Sagat is too smart to allow Daredevil to just reach in for nerve strikes, and logically, if Daredevil were to go up close for an attack, as beforementioned, he would get caught in a Muay Thai clinch.  Daredevil may have bested people like USAgent, but IMHO, he's always been a second-rate Cap with half the combat experience.  Sagat would catch Daredevil and one knee that he uses to smash trees would put Daredevil down, and those knees definitely aren't slow, especially not when he took Hugo down with a kick without even showing him moving from his standing position. "
Daredevil is smarter than Sagat and according to feats more skilled. "
I agree with you on that Daredevil is definitely smarter, but combat-wise Sagat isn't likely to make too many mistakes, and like I said, the only way I could really see Daredevil getting the best of Sagat would be using nerve-strikes, and I think Sagat could defend well enough against that.  It doesn't take too much to get Sagat bloodlusted, and if he went into a frenzy with elbows, knees and kicks, there's a good chance he could tag Daredevil at least once, and that would be enough to put Daredevil down.  Daredevil has more feats when it comes to having faced more various enemies in his career as a vigilante, but physically, Sagat has more impressive feats and capabilities. "
Daredevil is smarter in combat too.His intellect in combat probably surpasses that of the courtroom..especially with the help of his radar sense.Daredevil is a strategist.He calculates several ways to beat someone without prep time...during combat.You can't see Sagat getting hit with a nerve strike because you know it will be the last time he gets hit..because DD doesn't hit people who are unconscious.Sagat has done nothing to prove he can avoid it. 
As far as bloodlust..it's never helped Sagat in canon.I don't know what makes you think he stands a chance with Daredevil let alone knock him out with one good hit.Daredevil doesn't have more feats..he has better feats.He's beaten skilled opponents..alot of them.  
(Black Widow,Bengal,Hawkeye,Bullseye,Lady Bullseye,Typhoid Mary,Silver Samurai etc.) Sagat has beaten nobody but Go Hibiki.Who has no recorded stats or showings.So how are Sagat's feats more impressive.He spent an entire video game series losing.
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#49 Posted by k4tzm4n (36394 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor:
Damn, nice scan.
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#50 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @progenitor said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" @progenitor said:
" I don't know about freezing molecules or anything along the like, but Sagat would take Daredevil.  Sagat is too smart to allow Daredevil to just reach in for nerve strikes, and logically, if Daredevil were to go up close for an attack, as beforementioned, he would get caught in a Muay Thai clinch.  Daredevil may have bested people like USAgent, but IMHO, he's always been a second-rate Cap with half the combat experience.  Sagat would catch Daredevil and one knee that he uses to smash trees would put Daredevil down, and those knees definitely aren't slow, especially not when he took Hugo down with a kick without even showing him moving from his standing position. "
Daredevil is smarter than Sagat and according to feats more skilled. "
I agree with you on that Daredevil is definitely smarter, but combat-wise Sagat isn't likely to make too many mistakes, and like I said, the only way I could really see Daredevil getting the best of Sagat would be using nerve-strikes, and I think Sagat could defend well enough against that.  It doesn't take too much to get Sagat bloodlusted, and if he went into a frenzy with elbows, knees and kicks, there's a good chance he could tag Daredevil at least once, and that would be enough to put Daredevil down.  Daredevil has more feats when it comes to having faced more various enemies in his career as a vigilante, but physically, Sagat has more impressive feats and capabilities. "
Daredevil is smarter in combat too.His intellect in combat probably surpasses that of the courtroom..especially with the help of his radar sense.Daredevil is a strategist.He calculates several ways to beat someone without prep time...during combat.You can't see Sagat getting hit with a nerve strike because you know it will be the last time he gets hit..because DD doesn't hit people who are unconscious.Sagat has done nothing to prove he can avoid it. As far as bloodlust..it's never helped Sagat in canon.I don't know what makes you think he stands a chance with Daredevil let alone knock him out with one good hit.Daredevil doesn't have more feats..he has better feats.He's beaten skilled opponents..alot of them.  (Black Widow,Bengal,Hawkeye,Bullseye,Lady Bullseye,Typhoid Mary,Silver Samurai etc.) Sagat has beaten nobody but Go Hibiki.Who has no recorded stats or showings.So how are Sagat's feats more impressive.He spent an entire video game series losing. "

I would consider being a former world champion a feat in itself, something Daredevil's never achieved.  Sagat's faced various types of martial artists in his time, and there's no way to prove he's never beaten anyone with knowledge or capability of nerve-strikes, and he didn't just beat Go Hibiki, he killed him.  Theoretically, Sagat could simply box Daredevil's ears and put him in a Muay Thai clinch and the match would immediately be done, Daredevil would have no chance to defend himself.  Even though Daredevil's faced metahumans and superhumans with energy capabilities, I don't think he's ever faced someone like Sagat, who focuses his ki within his Muay Thai.  None of the people you just mentioned have the natural strength of Sagat, although Sagat is most likely much faster than a foe such as Typhoid Mary.  Sagat would just be too much for Daredevil, physically and strategically.  You mentioned before that my mention of the reach advantage wouldn't mean much, but in actual H2H combat, it really does.  Sagat could much more easily tag Daredevil based on the length of his limbs than Daredevil could tag Sagat, and if Daredevil tried blocking a knee that's shattered trees, it would probably break his arm and shoulder. 
 
Daredevil just doesn't have enough strength to do serious damage to Sagat unless, like you said, it had to do with nerve-strikes, and i've never seen Sagat lose to a fight using a nerve-strike.  Just because Sagat hasn't been on a winning streak doesn't mean he's just a loser, he was a world champion, the pride of Thailand.  

   

"We see poachers stalking a tiger who instead kills one of them. Before the tiger can pounce on the other Sagat kicks it in the head and scares it off. The poacher thanks Sagat profusely for which he rejects. Sagat has found a new target for his aggression. He begins slapping the poacher all over the jungle. As he does so the scar on his chest opens up and he starts bleeding. While Sagat pauses to clutch his chest the poacher grabs a young villager from a nearby tent. It is the child that Sagat accidentally hurt. The poacher holds him hostage. Sagat throws his hand in between the gun and the child. The poacher fires a round into his hand. Sagat grabs the poacher with his free hand and lifts him into the air. The poacher fires a few more rounds into the torso of Sagat."  
 
  

 "Sagat can easily kill the poacher but he chooses not to. He had just cause and unlike Ryu, this person was a criminal willing to murder Sagat in cold blood. At that point Sagat has chosen his path, he will not let rage consume him, he will not use muay thai as a means to have his revenge. He will not stain the name of his beloved country. The bandages fall away from his chest as he holds the poacher aloft. The massive scar on his chest has stopped bleeding. Sagat has matured as much as Ryu in the universe."
 
This entire story revolving briefly around Sagat not only shows feats of him taking bullets as if they were nothing and still being a force to be reckoned with, but also warding off a wild tiger that had already killed a poacher with just one kick? Sagat had all the capability to pound Daredevil into unconsciousness using his mastery of Muay Thai.  Daredevil, in his techniques, primarily uses Judo, american boxing, and jujutsu.  Jujutsu is the only technique I could see Daredevil using to his advantage, seeing as it involves using the opponents own energy against him, but also bearing in mind that Sagat wouldn't be going for conventional attacks, Muay Thai is notorious as being one of the most brutal martial arts out there.  Daredevil could only avoid Sagat for so long before getting tagged, and once he does get tagged, he goes down.