Sagat vs Conan

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Sparda

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#101  Edited By Sparda

I think that Vance Astro said:

"lordraiden said:
"Vance Astro said:
"lordraiden said:
"lordraiden said:
"And P.S. didn't I make this thread CONAN vs Sagat, not Ruy! Can we, by any chance get back onto topic :-)"

 I'll have to make another Sagat vs Ryu thread if anyone wants to continue on that!"
That would be uncalled for because we know who wins.
As far as Conan is concerned I think he's done too.I don''t think he's fast enough to compete with Sagat even if he is strong enough.
"

Well, that was just a hint to move on from Ruy/Sagat, not that I was actually gonna make a seperate thread, but thanx for the heads up :-) As far as Conan vs Sagat is concerned, i'd call it even, H2H>majority goes to Sagat, and with weapons, majority goes to Conan!"
I don't see how Conan's weapons make a difference....Sagat throws projectiles with devastating effects..Conan has primitive weapons...C'mon now.I could see if Sagat was a swordsman or something and we were saying Sagat would lose with weapons because Conan is a better weapons master but what is any of Conan's weapons going to do against a Tiger shot? Nothing..."
Conan's weapons might be primitive, but he is very effective with them....in the second issue of the Dark Horse series, he kills two (at least 20 feet tall) Frost Giants (who had the jump on him) with his sword (cut the first one's leg so that it fell and he stabbed it, and the other one he did this sort of wall-jump and stabbed it through the throat). He was sixteen when he did that, so assuming he's a lot older in this fight (standard Conan) he'd be way better than that.

I could see Conan dodging around the Tiger Shots (assuming he was a fair distance away) until he came close enough to do a fatal strike, but I dunno how fast the shots are in the first place.

(Kinda guess the whole post was a little pointless then, lol)
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Duke Checkmate III

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Sparda said:
"I think that Vance Astro said:
"lordraiden said:
"Vance Astro said:
"lordraiden said:
"lordraiden said:
"And P.S. didn't I make this thread CONAN vs Sagat, not Ruy! Can we, by any chance get back onto topic :-)"

 I'll have to make another Sagat vs Ryu thread if anyone wants to continue on that!"
That would be uncalled for because we know who wins.
As far as Conan is concerned I think he's done too.I don''t think he's fast enough to compete with Sagat even if he is strong enough.
"

Well, that was just a hint to move on from Ruy/Sagat, not that I was actually gonna make a seperate thread, but thanx for the heads up :-) As far as Conan vs Sagat is concerned, i'd call it even, H2H>majority goes to Sagat, and with weapons, majority goes to Conan!"
I don't see how Conan's weapons make a difference....Sagat throws projectiles with devastating effects..Conan has primitive weapons...C'mon now.I could see if Sagat was a swordsman or something and we were saying Sagat would lose with weapons because Conan is a better weapons master but what is any of Conan's weapons going to do against a Tiger shot? Nothing..."
Conan's weapons might be primitive, but he is very effective with them....in the second issue of the Dark Horse series, he kills two (at least 20 feet tall) Frost Giants (who had the jump on him) with his sword (cut the first one's leg so that it fell and he stabbed it, and the other one he did this sort of wall-jump and stabbed it through the throat). He was sixteen when he did that, so assuming he's a lot older in this fight (standard Conan) he'd be way better than that.

I could see Conan dodging around the Tiger Shots (assuming he was a fair distance away) until he came close enough to do a fatal strike, but I dunno how fast the shots are in the first place.

(Kinda guess the whole post was a little pointless then, lol)"
The thing is Sagat doesn't have to hit him with a Tiger shot for it to be effective...he could throw one around him and it's still going to blow him away.It's like dodging Gambit's cards..you can dodge the card but what you really be dodging is the impact.Frost Giants and monsters and all this aren't comparable to Sagat.He isn't a giant rampaging monster..it's easy to attack a target that is two big to dodge and isn't smart enough to thing of it anyway.
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Sparda

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#103  Edited By Sparda
Duke Checkmate III said:
"Sparda said:
"I think that Vance Astro said:
"lordraiden said:
"Vance Astro said:
"lordraiden said:
"lordraiden said:
"And P.S. didn't I make this thread CONAN vs Sagat, not Ruy! Can we, by any chance get back onto topic :-)"

 I'll have to make another Sagat vs Ryu thread if anyone wants to continue on that!"
That would be uncalled for because we know who wins.
As far as Conan is concerned I think he's done too.I don''t think he's fast enough to compete with Sagat even if he is strong enough.
"

Well, that was just a hint to move on from Ruy/Sagat, not that I was actually gonna make a seperate thread, but thanx for the heads up :-) As far as Conan vs Sagat is concerned, i'd call it even, H2H>majority goes to Sagat, and with weapons, majority goes to Conan!"
I don't see how Conan's weapons make a difference....Sagat throws projectiles with devastating effects..Conan has primitive weapons...C'mon now.I could see if Sagat was a swordsman or something and we were saying Sagat would lose with weapons because Conan is a better weapons master but what is any of Conan's weapons going to do against a Tiger shot? Nothing..."
Conan's weapons might be primitive, but he is very effective with them....in the second issue of the Dark Horse series, he kills two (at least 20 feet tall) Frost Giants (who had the jump on him) with his sword (cut the first one's leg so that it fell and he stabbed it, and the other one he did this sort of wall-jump and stabbed it through the throat). He was sixteen when he did that, so assuming he's a lot older in this fight (standard Conan) he'd be way better than that.

I could see Conan dodging around the Tiger Shots (assuming he was a fair distance away) until he came close enough to do a fatal strike, but I dunno how fast the shots are in the first place.

(Kinda guess the whole post was a little pointless then, lol)"
The thing is Sagat doesn't have to hit him with a Tiger shot for it to be effective...he could throw one around him and it's still going to blow him away.It's like dodging Gambit's cards..you can dodge the card but what you really be dodging is the impact.Frost Giants and monsters and all this aren't comparable to Sagat.He isn't a giant rampaging monster..it's easy to attack a target that is two big to dodge and isn't smart enough to thing of it anyway."
Aw fine, Sagat wins....
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eeeeeeeeeeexcelllent....

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Lance Bastro

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#105  Edited By Lance Bastro





@lord_oraculous016:  @TheUltimateSurvivor:  @Prince CortSether:   @kenshiroo:   @Omarpool:  @mark5:  @CapitolPunishment:   @Hyperlight:  @zee crusher:   @lordraiden :  @alcoholbob:   @Thor's hammmer:  
@jec777 @Gremlin From Kremlin:  @Cypher's Gambit:  @_Courage_:  @Jedisupermaster:  @TheFallenOne:  @Ronyc:  @karrob:  @Freefa11:  @ThaMessenger07:  @doomsummers:  @Nefarious:  @the human Juggernaut:







@lord_oraculous016:

ooh loooord... ora-cu-lous!! 
you are twisting up the facts and it is apparently ridiculous! 
don't you knooow. that chthon is just a shoow... while cyttorak shows less, becuase he's practically unlimited. 







 @lord_oraculous016: said: 

@Lance Bastro: ...

are you contradicting yourself when you speak of "publications" and then mentioning the word "non-canon" in almost every one of your arguments? you see, the reason why i never use the term "non-canon" in my arguments is because of publications. i told you this before under the science of quantum realities which i know you believe as well since you mentioned about the chaos wave effecting parallel times of multiple universes. that everything that is considered non canon is actually cannon in the continuity due to quantum realities. the mystic arcana is just one of them, and the writers are fans of the magical side of what the originals created so therefore a fan-fiction of its own cause. all of the new stories written by new generation writers were or still are at one point of their life a fan of the original concept. for example, if i wrote a series about juggernaut regaining his powers as the trion and then making him reality warp space and manipulating time, that is staying true to the original concept of how the creator intended the origin of juggernaut's power to be. however, if i wrote something where juggernaut gets his head torn off by thanos with the infinity gauntlet while juggernaut is at full power, that right there is the part that IS NOT TRUE to the original concept of the character. do you understand where i'm getting at? eventhough mystic arcana is fan based... it had still been published, so therefore canon... however, now it's up to the readers to choose which cannon takes more credibility? the original concept or the fan-based material...

lol.. i don't contradict myself my good man.. any knowledgeable comic book reader knows the difference between a Canon and a Non-Canon Issue.. Storylines that is included in the main streamline of the Marvel publication are considered to be canon while stories such as What If's are considered Non-Canon.. Mystic Arcana is a Canon publication.. i why it funny how you consider it Non-Canon while Marvel itself considers it as Canon.. it's basically your word vs Marvel's.. ret-cons are natural in canon storylines.. it doesn't mean that a character's history has been changed it mean it is Non-Canon.. based on your claims, it makes me realize that you don't know much of the things you are talking about.. Mystic Arcana is FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES CANON.. IT IS AS CANON AS SECRET WARS, THE INFINITY SAGA, DARK PHOENIX SAGA, AVENGERS, X-MEN ETC.. 

oh but you do contradict your self and i will soon show you this.








 @lord_oraculous016: said: 

lol.. it is you my good man who can not prove anything and is basically repeating yourself over and over again.. Chthon would devour Cyttorak based on on panel feats which is far more superior than any of Cyttorak's and based on semantics..
feats? you want feats.. okay, i'll list them done just for you.. lol



if i may inquire how these "on panel" feats you claim are superior by what means? physical feats? feats based on a physical basis reality? is that all you care about it? well it is quite apparent that's what everybody likes to believe, right. just the little things that the naked eye can see should really be enough to determine a decision regardless the bigger things unseen, correct? 

well let me explain something to you. and i told you this many times before. 
a reality is what? what is a reality? 


is reality to you something that you can see, touch, hear, smell and speak to? 
is reality something you believe that can feel emotion and define and translate abstract thoughts into a physical action? 
if that's the case, reality is nothing more than just electrical signals being interpret by your brain. 
well, unfortunately; reality is just one aspect of existence as a whole. 
reality can also be the unseen, the untouched, the unheard, the unscented , and the unspoken. 


reality can indirectly be probability... 
and it can be possibility... 


but it needs help by another aspect called time which time needs  another aspect called space. 
space and time create a reality. where space can be manipulated from vacuum particles into matter, and time the force that moves it. 


matter is the physical side of reality.... these are the areas in which eternity and infinity represent. (time and space) 
while there are other forces that are abstract to be concrete that matter can not translate too... mind and soul... 
sensuousness (ego)...  each one of them are a representation of (power) in their own respect. 


ok, now that that's been explained. have you not ever wondered what the chaos wave effected? 
I got the answer. It effected the reality (space & time) of selected perspectives.... 
billions? perhaps, but billions of perspectives is not an omniverse let alone even a universe of souls. 



you see,  
that's what the reality gem is for. and the reality gem is considered to be 3rd most powerful. 






in your scans, you mentioned (even by other arguments you've had) that chthon's power was like a cancer inside eternity. 

ok? 

do you know how cancer works? oh well, yes of course you do... so allow me to remind the others reading this that cancer starts out by one mutated cell that spreads to others slowly. This was the way that the chaos waved worked through eternity, and was the reason why the chaos wave cancer was stopped by a little bit of good prep time. 



now... compare it to this: 


Thanos = Reality Gem 



you see? you have either forgotten or blatantly intended to omit and trick your readers to believe all the factual scans you posted stayed factual to the cause of the arcs you are using as a source to back up your claims. But I don't mind, because that's what a debate is all about right? however.... i can see through that deception and it's up to people like me, who are intelligent enough to see passed these dark curtains and expose it. 



and for the record: debates are not about who's right and who's wrong.... 
a debate is about who can persuade who, and obviously you've gained a good amount of that credibility due to your rhetorics, but its time to take that all away because this time, i'm not debating with you; this time i am exposing the truth... 



so what about thanos and the reality gem? 

well, if you didn't know by now, he used it to blink half of the MU just to prove a point. literally blinked everything faster than a spoken word. No wave, no time... Just gone. and he could have taken the entire MU save for the extradimention if not for him just wanting to be acknowledge. do you know who else was in the arc? well you guessed it, buddy. 

cyttorak... 



do you want to know why cyttorak wasn't affected? (when scarlet witch was along with her potential and chthon's power behind her...) 
well if you re-read what i wrote about space, time and reality several lines up, you will see... 



cyttorak is a timeless abstract void..... he is defined to defy the laws of reality so therefore it does not effect him. 
cyttorak effects reality; not the other way around.... 




now, i will go through each and everyone of your "proof" scans, and dissect, decipher,  untwist and expose the contradictions you created upon yourself. and after that, i will post a few of the scans of my own that tell the whole story as to why cyttorak beats the ethereal crap out of chthon and all of the elder gods INCLUDING the cyttorak impostor, demogorge. AND that void impostor mikaboshi as well as thanos with the infinity gauntlet, and possibility the living tribunal too...








@lord_oraculous016

 said: 

first by rule of semantics, Elder Gods thumps any lesser divinities both malevolent and benevolent..

No Caption Provided


now i remember we had a debate about this perhaps over a year ago when i mentioned that if cyttorak were by any chance relatively related to the elder gods, he would be considered a grand elder god, which you replied, "grand elder god? i never heard of it like that before." well... as we can all see, demiurge pretty much fits that description him being the father of the elder gods and incarnation of creation itself...  well, back then, i was trying fill in the gap by pin pointing the opposite side of deiurge and found no other else, but cyttorak as the incarnation of destruction.  

but something felt odd, if i placed cyttorak as that incarnation of destruction, that would make him tangible to something acceptable to a reality we can perceive and comprehend. so cyttorak had to have been something more out of that world --- the world of ideas. 


a symbol of the defiance of both destruction and creation rather than the actions itself. cyttorak is known as an endless & timeless void which the ancient one describes as the lord of that timeless void, and he is metaphorically described to be the master of the raging storm symbolism chaos. if you throw this metaphoric idea into the laws of reality you get the chaotic void that defies existence itself. cyttorak is such an idea. it is that very concept mixed by it's own laws to it's own existence unlike the elder gods who serve only one purpose of an action to its own existence within a physical and time moving reality.


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  • demiurge = incarnation of creation  (to build) 
  • gaea = the nourisher of nature  (to feed) 
  • set = the destroyer of nature  (to crush) 
  • chthon = the corrupter of light  (to corrupt) 
  • oshtur = the enlightenment  (to enlight) 

those are all verbs.... and to be precise; action verbs... these are what they do to exist in the reality they so call live in. 
demogorge also has his own purpose as the one who devours (to eat). and the list is passed as the smaller gods are spawned... (aka godlings) 




     in addition: it was a pity that chthon only obsessed over the dark arts where cyttorak's exocentric crimson magic exceeds over both black and white magics altogether.
   
 
  



it was said that the elder gods were to be replaced one day (by the godlings they've spawned through magic) which was also relevant to the purpose of the celestials & abstracts being replaced one day (by the omegas beings created by science). 

Key: "Yet we were to be deposed by newer gods..."  


  

Key: "Your fragile species will replace them and remake the structure of reality..."


but wait! they tell cain marko of all people that he is one to replace them too...

  
of course acknowledging cain through his humanity side rather than the monstrousness juggernaut persona.
however, in all contrary to that statement, "replace the fundamental forces so that one day you can remake reality." --- cain can already do just that as the juggernaut with a fraction of the fraction 1/8 of just the the physical aspect of cyttorak by itself.


  

and with the theorization of the maximum capacity of the gem (1/8 of the physical aspect of cyttorak's entire essence), juggernaut demonstrated to reshape and cause multiversal catastrophe just by mindlessly waving his arms and walking forward. each step, making him even more powerful, and each punch destroying a reality.

  


how is that so?

since we are living within and INSIDE a universe, we perceive it in our perspective as 3rd dimensional...but if you look at it from a bird's eye view; aka, an extra-dimensional perspective... the universe is merely as flat as paper. meaning if you punch through a dimensional barrier (the paper), you are not just breaking the barrier but punching straight through a reality itself.

  

juggernaut was literally bulldozing through physical universes with his physical body just by walking around the multiverse in search for the Trion universe.



stepping on, punching at, and walking through quantum reality itself.

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  @lord_oraculous016 said:     
lol.. Chthon never lost his powers.. that is the very reason why he cannot escape his own realm for there is no inter-dimensional rift that can contain the powers within him.. Chthon's influence on earth faded due to the pact created by sorcerers to create a lie that there is no God of Chaos, and that there is no Chaos Magic.. the Vishanti also took effort to counter his remaining influence on Earth by creating the Book of the Vishanti to serve as the opposing power to the dreaded Darkhold, a tome of great magic created by Chthon which has caused so much evil throughout history.. Cyttorak never set foot on Earth after being exiled.. Wanda's birth never restored Chthon's powers as they were never gone in the first place.. during the 6th century, Morgan Le Fay, and the cult of the Darkholders attempted to summon Chthon back on Earth.. upon his manifestation, they realized that a being of his power can never be controlled by any mortal means.. the greatest sorcerers of that era combined their powers to banish him back only to discover that they cannot.. so they just imprisoned his essence in a mountain later known as Mt. Wundagore.. the mountain later became the fortress of the High Evolutionary.. Gregor Russoff then used the Darkhold in an attempt to summon Chthon but failed to control him is essence.. Chthon summoned the Other to act in his behalf and it fought the High Evolutionary and the Knight of Wundagore.. at the same time, Magda, Magneto's wife was currently giving birth to the twins Pietro and Wanda.. the spirit of Magnus entered Russoff, used the Darkhold and sacrificed himself to banish Chthon back.. but before Chthon was completely banished, he blessed the newborn Wanda Maximoff a minuscule portion of his power and the ability to wield Chaos Magic which is the basis for Chthon unholy might.. it was Chthon who gave the Scarlet Witch the power to manipulate Chaos Magic, which later allowed her to alter reality in a multiversal/omniversal scale.. Wanda has nothing to do with the level of Chthon's powers.. Chthon simply sees her as the next vessel for his demonic majesty..

                                                                                                                                                

  
     



false. he had lost power before and his powers do indeed fluctuate given the circumstances like any other dark lord would to try to gain more power. but not only that; chthon as well as all other elder gods powers fluctuate depending on that of the circumstances very much unlike cyttorak, who's powers do not drop nor rise simply because it is a constant and unlimited power. here, let us test the attributes of chthon's power and its ability to stay constant by 1st introducing the other elder gods such as demogorge and set.

so how powerful is demogorge? what can he generate?

  
  • It so happens that atum's base level is as equivalent as the powers sun. but, i shall allow him more credit since...
  • he is able to absorb more power by consuming the demons & gods (moreso ALL demons obviously) transforming into demogorge.
but this is the very same thing set was able to do, in fact introducing the ability gain more energies after consuming other gods

  

so as the scans above suggest. chthon had to run away, while set had the fortitude to face demogorge for a longer duration of time before he had to escape himself. furthermore, set even challenged atum a 2nd time, one which lasted for centuries and wiping most of the dinosaurs off earth. so this is proof that even set was able to loose power, but what of chthon? oh but wait, what is this? the bottom right-hand panel implies that chthon is subjugated to death and oblivion to which at no end needed to plot a way for assurance by creating a check point system, but in order for this to work, he needed to be alive and NOT ABSORBED by demogorge.

here is a map that indicates the key points as to why your statements of chthon being as grand and unlimited as cyttorak is purely conjecture and contradicting to the cause of the arc, let alone the purpose of the elder gods.



  



and to further detest your claim as why chthon is superior to cyttorak is that the elder gods are ethereal beings. beings of a physical aspect like a spirit is a subject of particles of ectoplasmic life energies. this is to them being as physical as air, yet air is still effected by fundamental energies since air is a substance of physical particles. this means that if you amp magneto up just enough, he is able to effectively attack and defend himself from the elder gods. heck, even the ghost busters will affect the elder gods with their weapons which i will get back to that in a little bit, but if quasar with the enigma force was somewhat able to effect set, then magneto with the enigma force will do much better.... granted i'm not going to allow magneto victory with overall power sets, because all of us know that set is more powerful and has a much wider scale and variety use of its power other than just electromagnetism. but the point of the matter is magneto's power can still directly affect set or any of the elder gods.


  

unlike, he can juggernaut....


    


 magneto would have to use his powers indirectly to attack or defend himself from juggernaut.    



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@lord_oraculous016 said: 

the power of an Elder God surpasses that of a Cosmic Cube which possess the power to alter reality on a universal scale..

here is the power of the Cosmic Cube

No Caption Provided

yet even the combined power of the Cosmic Cube and that of the Sorcerer Supreme cannot destroy the Elder Gods Set but rather just merely exorcise his influence for a little while.. and for the record Chthon > Set..


No Caption Provided


where on any one of those scans does it dictate that elder gods are above cosmic cubes? you say "universal scale" as though it can effect a whole universe at one instant... but not so...  also, you are forgetting that cosmic cubes can grow sentient and deny a user wishes even becoming a being of its own like the beyonder. anyway, the term universal means anywhere limited to a specific area and common only to that area. in translation; the cosmic cube can only effect a radius around its controller and/or depending on that controllers knowledge of that space around him. can the elder god's effect more area than the  average cosmic cube? well yes... their powers have a wider radius...  (that is to the average user)

does that necessarily mean their power is more potent than an average cosmic cube? no...  

chthon demonstrated that his powers do not work at a blink of an eye.  it works as a contagion that spreads its way slowly but surely effecting random areas and by probability indirectly effecting everything else.

  





but... notice how i added emphasis to the word average directed at the cosmic cubes.... why? well, there are exceptions. cosmic cubes are constructed both technologically and naturally from excess power coming from where? the extra dimension, correct? and collecting power from someplace so vast means containing that energy through limited methods from a limited universe. beyonder was one of those cosmic cubes, in fact, the biggest one and that was post reconned and you're saying that chthon's power is greater than beyonder's? or even pre-recon molecule man? If beyonder and molecule man wanted to use their powers in a form of a shockwave to alter reality they can... but instead, that idea was already automatically implied (CIS to reality warp a multiverse) so the writer wanted them to run around the multiverse instead and pick different areas to warp. and if i do remember correctly, beyonder did snap his finger to instantly change the entire multiverse as quick as the eye can blink. so no, it is not accurate to say that elder gods are more powerful than the cosmic cubes. --but cyttorak is.


as for the 2nd scan with set vs combined might of dr. strange, thing, spiderman and cosmic cube is even proof itself that someone as inexpierienced as spiderman was able to destroy set's physical body. a body which is his real own...




  

  1. this is the finale of a saga were set travels multiversal earths to influence people of collecting the serpent crowns, but he is physically destroyed by one cosmic cube
  2. and exercised temporary thanks to the antics of agamotto (if not for agamotto, set would have been permanently sealed)
  3. for some reason set and chthon just needs to get their hands on a physical sentient host! which in contrast to abstracts and principalities, does not. and what differs from the principality deities from fundamental abstracts like eternity -eternity usually ends up to be the prime target to be possessed by it's own occupants whether mortal or not.
  4. thousands of thousands of magically empowered vipers are desprately at full strength and power to stop the exorcism.

counter points:


  1. earth is merely youtube to cyttorak. he uses facebook every once in awhile to ask dr. strange what's up and release his pitbull juggernaut out to play in the back yard.
  2. well... dr. strange can not do anything at all when faced before cyttorak's essence so exercising that is out of the question. even if he did have 1000 cosmic cubes and 200 infinite gauntlets. agamotto is a joke to cyttorak which neither set nor chthon are in par to agamotto.
  3. well we know for a fact that agamotto and horrath can just materialize a physical host body from thin air.... unlike the evil elder gods, who need to prep for eons just to locate a suitable host body to conquer.
  4. considering the entire multiverse, cyttorak has countless of 1/8 juggernauts to command. <----- i will go further into detail on this later in the post.






@lord_oraculous016 said:     

he turned the Young Avengers into stone..

No Caption Provided




  


about classic nightmare: (click spoiler)








now the 2nd time eternity has been captured by nightmare; strange lost!
now both eternity AND dr. strange are victims of nightmare


  

now that both dr. strange and eternity are under the mercy of nightmare, dr. strange has no choice but to summon the most powerful being he believes can stop nightmare...
the unstoppable J-J-JUGGERNAUT!


  
nightmare has no choice now but to fight the juggernaut since the juggernaut is the only thing that stands between him and multiversal conquest.



    


nightmare is surprised at the shere might of the juggernaut and even with the powers of his and eternity's combined, HE CAN NOT STOP THE JUGGERNAUT!
juggernaut sucks him up using the power of the crimson cosmos, where nightmare is made an example of. this weakened nightmare's control over his containment of the eye of agamotto, eternity and strange.



  


  after strange was free, he uses the power of watoomb to regain his belongings and free eternity once more.


  


  


but this can't have ever been done if without the aid juggernaut.
note:  keep in mind that the nightmare mikaboshi killed, was the skyfather level nightmare. this is the weakest incarnation of nightmare. the real nightmare is above multi-eternity. this is the nightmare that hailed to shuma gorath  


   


let's take a look at the physical aspects again:
1/8th of a fraction of 1/8th of a fraction of the physical aspect of cyttorak vs 100% of a physical "host" of the essences of ---- let's say set.
juggernaut was unharmed by most all powerful entities it have ever fought. in comparison to set's body



  
   





chthon's feats:

@lord_oraculous016 said: 
   
  1. flooded newyork with blood
  2. encased san fransisco with amber
  3. made it blizzard in arazona
  4. overwhelmed philadelphia with vegetation    
  5. changed the F4's atomic frequency to mere radio channels, specifically channel 4 everywhere
  6. summoned a swarm of flesh eating insects in toronto
  7. created chaotic life forms magically out of nothing
  8. he literally erased oklahoma off the map and imprisoned the entire dimension of asgard in a void dimension leaving even the mighty thor powerless before him..    



  













  
in contrast to chthon who is pretty much the same representation of himself all the time, even when he is in possession of a host.










  

  
  






            
    
      
    












actually the will of spider man and power of the cosmic cube did in fact destroy the physical aspect of set, but not the essence since the essence does not exist in the physical universe. (the area that the cosmic cube does not effect) that is why dr. strange needed to cast a spell while the cube was used as an amplifier. needless to say; it worked. thereof destroying an elder god's physical body and forevermore exercising the mind of the ethereal from reforming into another physical body and  influence the universe. 



do you think that set's physical form can stand a ghost of a chance against PR-molecule man or beyonder? I didn't think so. 



and yet, neither of them can directly affect juggernaut with their reality warping. it just repels off him affecting everything else around him. the beyonder had to transport juggernaut onto an asteroid just to keep juggernaut away. 



so this means a cosmic cube no matter the potency and no matter the magnitude, is virtually useless against juggernaut unless by indirectly affecting the area around juggernaut. 

and since it can not affect an avatar of cyttorak only using a fraction of a fraction (fraction of 12% of physical power to faction of overall power that is limitless) of its power means that even a sorcerer supreme with millions of cosmic cubes would do jack didily squat against cyttorak; not even affecting him at all. 






























key point: that mortals throughout the history of time were able to out wit chthon and were also able to conjure up the power and will to banish him even inside and within a physical universe.. 

key point 2: the book of darkhold holds 100% insurance of chthon; incontrast, the gem of cyttorak only holds 1/8 of just cyttorak's physical aspect --ALONE. 

   








during Mighty Avengers #21 an essence Chthon once took over Quicksilver's body and unleashed Chaos across reality..