Round 1: Hulkage vs DedmanWalkin (VOTING OPEN)

Welcome to TNBB's second tournament!

This match is made for the reading pleasure of the readers as well as the enjoyment of the contestants.

For newbies that don't understand what's going on, check out the CaV post that is stickied on the Battles Forum.

A guy who's on his first tournament vs the loophole king. Tag me for votes (assuming both of you are OK with me voting). Good luck to both and have fun!

Teams

Team @hulkage:

• Achilles Curse Percy Jackson
• GL Ring
• Nick Gautier (no future feats)
• Piper McLean
• Double MS Kakashi
• Kisame
• Jean Grey (without Phoenix)

Team @dedmanwalkin:

• De-powered Bruce Banner
• 2 days prep with brain of Tony Stark and Stark Tower
• Red and Green Lantern Rings
• Mjolnir
• Cyclops Vision
• Thorbuster Armor

Rules

• No power absorption/mimicking
• No cloning
• No temporal manipulation
• Matches officially start January 2nd, end January 9th however you can start before that if you wish

@thenewbluebeetle007: Is there a battlefield?

@dedmanwalkin: abandoned NYC. No life forms anywhere around aside from the two teams.

@hulkage

Prep

During Prep, Bruce leaves his Red Lantern Ring off. Then he sets about performing multiple tasks. Now since he has a Green Lantern Ring, he'll use it to create multiple constructs to complete tasks so that he need only focus on more important tasks.

Extremis

So the first action that Bruce takes is injecting himself with Extremis designed to do 4 things.

1. Expand his mind

Given the introduction of Tony Stark's mind into Bruce Banner's already fragile psyche, the two minds working as one will do what they do best, problem solve. Using the power of Extremis, he can rewrite how his body functions by effectively hacking his repair ability. So he effectively separates his brain into several sub-brains, each of these sub-brains will contain the disparate parts of his minds all networked together. So effectively, Bruce, Tony, the Green Scar, and the Hulk are each operating as one being while still capable of independent thought. Tony's engineering backed by Bruce's physics with the tactical ingenuity of the Green Scar and the sheer savagery of the Hulk all forming a single cohesive entity. As with Tony, this also allows him multitask on a level that Tony couldn't imagine. In addition, this will allow him to directly interface with technology seamlessly.

2. Hone his body

Extremis can redefine not only the mind but also the body. This allowed Tony to become stronger, faster, and even heal at an even greater rate. But Bruce's body is already pretty different and not just because high gamma exposure turns him into the Hulk but because he currently has Cyclops DNA. He'll suffuse that ruby red energy throughout his entire body. This not only allows him to manipulate that concussive force for a variety of effects but also permeate destructive energy in a full 360 degrees of doom. Bruce on his own is now a capable opponent capable of taking on mid-tier threats.

3. Strengthen his heart

Owing to the destructive influence of the Red Lantern Ring, Bruce will install a backup heart. This serves to allow him to remove the Ring without instant death.

While undertaking these changes, Bruce will have kept busy by using his Green Lantern Ring to continue construction.

The Sons of Hulk

His Green Lantern Constructs will mainly be set about turning Stark Tower into a tower armor similar to Stark's Satellite Armor. The tech inside should be more than enough to get the job done especially with Green Lantern Constructs filling any gaps. This new giant armor, named the Omega Hulk, will be designed to produce two things, Gamma Bombs and Sons of Hulk. Gamma Bombs are exactly what they sound like, the same weapon that turned him into the Hulk. The Sons of Hulk are Hulkbuster Armors built with a variety of special metals with various modular technologies but ultimately they are designed to mimic the Hulk as much as possible as well as things that have fought the Hulk. They also will have the Hypervelocity-tech used to create P.E.P.P.E.R. With Stark and Bruce working together, this should be childsplay. By the time prep is up, I should have at least 10 Sons. 5 will be on the battlefield while 5 will be in the armory aboard Omega Hulk, the Tower Armor. As we get into the battle, I'll go into the various armor subsystems. Omega Hulk itself features a number of notable subsystems that allow it to fight as well as produce Sons.

Prep Results

Extremis Enhancements Complete

10 Sons of Hulk

20-30 Gamma Bombs

1 Omega Hulk Armor

I'll stop here until you do an introduction of your characters because I don't know much about them.

@dedmanwalkin: Don't mind if I do.

*Due to the length of this post I'm going to copy from my earlier CAV with @arcus for Percy's intro.

Percy Jackson. Seaweed Brain. Best demigod ever. Solo machine. Whatever you decide to call him, it is pretty unanimous that Percy is simply "that guy". He has basically completed every single feat that the demigods of old have, and then some. Whether it be a Hydra, Minotaur, Sirens, Giants, or even Kronos himself, Percy has proven himself to be a worthy opponent, even god-like at times. I could on about his feats for hours (quite literally), but since I have another post I have signed up to entertain you for, I won't overwhelm you all at once. So basically I will be dividing the post up in two categories: Power/Physicals, and Intangibles/Skills/Weaponry. Lets begin @arcus.

Physicals:

Many people don't realize that Percy's physicals are actually quite great. He should be around peak human+ in all honesty.

1. Striking: He doesn't have many striking feats (in the traditional sense), because he is a swordsman, besides, punches don't kill monsters, celestial bronze (or imperial gold) does. This means he has no reason to strike at all, but don't take that as him not having striking power. Physically he has enough striking to exchange blows with monsters, gods, and even titans without much difficulty (often times when he is overwhelmed it is due to superior skill but sometimes it is strength).

2. Strength: Percy even at the age of 11 was incredibly strong. He was able to break the minotaur's horns with his bare hands.

The bull-man wheeled toward him, pawed the ground again, and got ready to charge. I thought about how he had squeezed the life out of my mother, made her disappear in a flash of light, and rage filled me like high-octane fuel. I got both hands around one horn and I pulled backward with all my might. The monster tensed, gave a surprised grunt, then— snap!

Now I think that is amazing and you might not think so, but my job is to convince you on how amazing it is. First of all human bones are some of the strongest materials found in nature. It is four times stronger that steel and five times stronger than concrete. One cubic inch of bone is enough to support over 14000 lbs of force. "If thats true then why do they break so easily?" Well for one, most bones arent an inch thick, they are hollow with different tissues and fluids flowing through them, which is why you get swelling when you break one. Even so, your ribs are some of your weaker bones. Most professional boxers punch on an average of 5000 newtons of force, roughly half a ton, and even then, there is only a 25% chance that even a fracture would occur and only a 6% chance for the Femur, much less a clean break. And that is striking strength (easier to punch steel and get a dent than to bend it) on the weaker bones of the body. Bones that aren't completely within the body are much stronger than the ones on the inside, kinda like how teeth are the strongest bones of the body. Bighord Sheep, aka rams, who have the same horns as the minotaur, have much denser bones than humans. The scarier part is that the weight of both of their horns combined, 60 pounds, is the equivalent to the weight of all of its other bones combined. Ram horns are hollow, but their sides are on average over an inch thick. Like i said earlier Ram horns are denser but I couldn't find how much denser online, so I'll simply lowball and use human bone specifics. One cubic inch can support over 14000 lbs and the base is an average 8 inches in diameter. So lets do some math.

3.14r^2=area of a circle

3.14(4)^2=

3.14(16)=

=50.24 sq in, but the horns are hollow with walls about an inch thick so I have to find the area of a 6 inch circle ( one inch thick on each side so 8-2=6 and subtract it

just incase you were wondering

3.14r^2=area of a circle

3.14(3)^2=

3.14(9)=

=28.26 inches squared

• 50.24 inches squared
• -28.26 inches squared
• 21.98 inches squared

About one cubic inch of bone can support a little over 14,000 lbs. But I have to convert that to square inches because he broke it and the break wasn't three dimensional it was two dimensional. One cubic inch thats 1x1x1, cant use this so I have to convert to centimeters squared. So 2.54 x 2.54 x 2.54.

14000/2.54= 5511.811024= 5511.8 lbs of force per square inch.

Are you still with me? Hopefully so. Now i multiply the square inches of the horn's bone by the amount of force per square inch it is required to break it.

21.98(5511.8)=121149.364 lbs of force

The Ram's horn was able to withstand about 120,000 lbs of force, or about 60 tons. Percy broke it meaning he was exerting at least 60 tons of force which would be required in order to break it. He did this at the age of 12 and a half. By the time he had turned 13 he was doing this.

"Wait, how much weight was the sky?"

I calc'd it in a thread a few months ago and I honestly don't feel like doing it again, sorry for the laziness. But it can be found on the demigods vs avatars thread.

Then there is the instance where he flipped Porphyrion by thrusting his spear into the ground.

These prove that he has above peak human strength in not only his arms but his legs as well:

This is that same wall.

The same wall that kids were falling off and getting caught by giant eagles and had to be climbed on with a latter by Frank, Percy leapt on. Later on in the fight....

He was able to somersault completely over a whole line of shields held by roman legionnares. Percy "Steve Rodgers" Jackson, anyone?

This shows that his strength is more than enough to keep up with Scarab.

3. Speed: Most of his speed feats come with the Curse of Achilles (which I'm going to cover later on) but he was sufficient enough to keep up with Ares at the age of 12, keep up with Luke, son of Hermes, the fastest god. Luke was so quick that he and Thalia created electricity when they fought (this had nothing to do with her powers because the book said their swordfighting created it as they fought like demons).

He was able to react to Thorn the Manticore's spikes which moved as quick as the Hunters arrows. He was even able to react to bullets.

This next section is completely credited to @jmarshmallow

4. Durability: Percy can take a beating, even without the curse. He gets smacked around quite a bit actually with little to no affect.

Example A:

Getting smacked by the physically strongest Titan and getting right back up.

Example B:

Here he is durable enough to resist lava straight on and was plunged into it, able to survive one million pounds of pressure, and able to survive an explosion.

Example C:

Getting smacked by the king of the giants almost forty feet.

These show that time and time again Percy is able to take a beating and all of these points should prove that Percy is more than a match for him physically.

Powerset:

Water Manipulation: This shouldn't require any scenes as its common knowledge that he has a mastery over any forms of water that can only be negated by a being more powerful than himself. Can manipulate water in all forms and has been shown manipulating steam, and even snow. He can breath underwater and doesn't even get wet unless he wants to. He can manipulate the air molecules underwater to allow his friends to submerge. He can even create constructs and change the density of it to make it hard enough to walk on or soft enough to allow him to fall hundreds of feet into a body of water.

In the House of Hades he even showed the ability to manipulate poison just because it flows like water, insinuating that he can not only manipulate water, but liquid in general.

Water Amp: When Percy is able to reach a body of water he can double his strength, speed, durability, etc. This is evident when he falls in a creek and solos a group of Ares campers untrained or when he simply douses his face with water from a cup and is able to defeat Luke in a sword fight.

However, if he can get in contact with salt water, his powers can rival a god's. When he was untrained and still 12 years old, he was able to get the upperhand on Ares of all people. He has moved hundreds of feet in mere seconds in the water and has created tidal waves.

Water Genesis: As shown in the durability scene i presented earlier, he has the ability to create water out of his own will power.

Storms: He has created his own personal Hurricane multiple times, powerful enough to overcome Hyperion and thousands of undead legion soldiers. He has created funnels (water tornadoes), strong winds, and rain. One of his storms even produced lightning and lightning tendrils.

Earthquakes:

nuff said.

Curse of Achilles:

The curse of Achilles gives complete invulnerability in any spot other than the proverbial "Achilles Heel", which is located....(you didn't think I would actually tell you did you. It also enhances strength, perception speed, reaction speed, combat speed, and stamina. Here are just a few feats of him and his curse.

Here he basically blitzes an army, dodges multidirectional bullets, and has quick enough reaction to deflect a bolt of energy sent by Hades, midair.

Humiliates the minotaur then effortlessly lifts him up and throws him off of the bridge. Kills about 180 monsters. Wasn't injured at all, in fact he says that it was a possibility that he dodged every blow. Crazy reaction time.

Matches Kronos blow for blow with strength that made the whole bridge shake with every blow, he even gets the upperhand. Then he generates water and uses it to create a 50 foot fissure. (Theres another geokinetic feat you asked for)

This one fight explains so much. First of all Percy completely solo'd the second strongest titan and was physically superior to him. He also has that light speed reaction feat that I bolded. "That's preposterous, nobody else has shown light speed time so why should Percy?" Yeah, they have. Hyperion was light speed (because he was light). Oh and Percy was able to keep up with Blackjack, who has a lightspeed feat of his own(not my fault talk to Riordan):

I know this seems crazy but this really happened (The Last Olympian, Chapter 11, Page 187-188(well at least in the ebook I'm using, the page varies with different copies)) Here, Blackjack moves "as fast as light" and clearly makes it across the river before the army could even react. But we know that Percy was quick enough to perceive him obviously since this book is written in first person. And we also see Percy overwhelming and moving quicker than the Titan of Light could react.

Also in the Hyperion fight, we see Percy get blasted a couple hundred yards and land on his back, the same place where his curse weak spot is located. This proves that blunt force damage won't work on his mark, it has to be piercing damage (which Green Beetle has but it's just interesting information).

Oh and I just gave this guy a green lantern ring... He is the powerhouse of my group.

But while I am still in his verse lets move on to Piper.

Piper "Pipes" McClean

The giants had expected Percy and Annabeth. They didn’t expect her.

For once, being Piper McLean, the daughter of Aphrodite, the one nobody took seriously, might play to her advantage.

Piper McLean is the daughter of Aphrodite, the daughter of love, and her heritage leads to her being severely underrated during fights. Many people see her as a one trick pony, Charmspeak, but other than that, pretty much useless. That is definitely not the case. But I'm not going to overload you at once, I'm going to show you scene by scene what makes her more than a persuasive voice.

Charmspeak:

Everyone knows what it is and it almost needs no explanation. Almost. But alas, this is a debate, and I cannot rely on the the voters background knowledge of this ability. Charmspeak is a form of mental persuasion, a very powerful form of mental persuasion. At a very young age Piper was known for going up to car salesman and simply telling them to give her a car and they would acquiesce, they wouldn't know why, but all of a sudden they would develop an urge to give this young lady a car. That was before book one even occurs, at the end of book one her voice was oneshotting werewolves.

It doesn't matter who you are, as long as you hear it, you will obey. She even has kept people alive with her voice. One of the rules of the PJverse is that any mortal who looks at a gods true form dies, well not if Piper has anything to say about it.

She basically bought Jason back from the dead, or the very brink of death, if you will. Oh and did I mention that this is still book one?

By book five she is basically doing it to armies. She is even skilled enough to incorperate it into her H2H combat

As you can see, her charmspeak is a very formidable weapon and I'll save the cooler feats because I'm curious to see how you plan to combat it.

H2H:

Piper may not be known for it, but she is a very capable H2H combatant. She solo'd a bunch of earthborn with just her knife. She was even able to take on all of the giants for a short period of time. She is also quick, noting that compared to her usual training, the giants attacks seemed slow. And the giants aint slow my friend. Here's the scene.

Showing that Piper is skilled enough with a knife to throw it across the temple and impale it in Enceladus' head.

Katropis: Special blade that can reveal the past, present, and future.

Sword of the Boreads: This is the sword that Piper gained by defeating the Boreads on the Argo II. Can freeze limbs with a simple touch and if it is impaled through any part of the body they are frozen all the way through.

Her Charmspeak has other interesting qualities but we'll hold off on em for now.

Kisame Hoshigake

Kisame is one of the strongest ninjas in the popular Manga/Anime, Naruto. I will not be using him in this tournament as an offensive weapon unless I need to but I will be using his abilities to give me an edge before the battles begin. He is also here for defense and moral support.

Here is a basic rundown of his abilities:

Jean Grey

nuff said.

Nicholas Ambrosious Gautier

Now this is my swiss army knife of my roster and luckily for me there is barely any info on him at all, which makes prepping for him a nightmare. So no I will not give a full intro, I'm just going to give bits and pieces because I may need him more in future battles so I want as much uncertainty and speculation as possible. But I will say this though, with full future feats and mastery over his powers, He is skyfather+ level.

The six special abilities I will be using primarily in this battle are the following:

• Necromancy/Control over the dead
• Teleportation
• Malachai State
• Control over the Ether
• Dimension Hopping

Note he has above average physicals and flight as well as nanosecond combat and reaction speed.

Double MS Kakashi Hatake

Ah, the king of HAX. Seriously Kamui has to be one of the most hax abilities ever included in manga. I mean seriously it allowed Obito to return from the afterlife. But Kakashi is much more than just hax.

Kakashi is fast enough to cut lightning in half before it strikes the ground, can predict movements, and can copy almost any technique (but copying is banned so oh well). He is very skilled at H2H combat and has metahuman strength and durability. He can do things like generate lightning, fire, and earth. He is also a very adept tactition.

Two Mangekyo Sharingan means that Kakashi has Amaterasu (hell fire that can burn even fire) and Tsukiyomi (mind rape) and also has Susano'o which is a giant energy avatar that is the ultimate defense and offense.

The Kamui is an extra ability granted to Kakashi's double Mangekyo sharingan. It grants him these powers:

• Intangibility
• Teleportation
• Dimension Hopping
• Teledismemberment

Prep:

We have 15 minutes, luckily I have a few people with nanosecond and lightspeed reaction time (NOT SPEED) and perception. We'll make the most of it although for this battle, 15 minutes should be enough.

1. Have Jean Grey Telepathically link and shield everyone here.
2. Have Nick open the ether so everyone is seeing past, present, and future simultaneously this gives us an access to strengths, weaknesses, and gives Percy full mastery over his Green Lantern Power Ring.
3. Have the group move towards the Hudson River
4. Have Nick teleport to the Nearby Green-Wood Cemetary and reanimate 100 zombies and teleports the zombies back.
5. Have Percy use the ring to make sea beast and dinosaurs with his green lantern ring
6. Have Piper McClean give all of the beast sentience with her charmspeak
7. Have Percy create duplicate rings and give them all to the dead.
8. Have Piper and Nick control the dead power ring wielders (they may not have mastery but they can still create constructs)
9. Have Kisame give 70% of his chakra reserves to Kakashi
10. Jean Grey moves 10 miles away from everyone else and sends her astral form to the battlefield
11. Jean Grey puts a TK shield around Piper
12. Percy uses the ring to telegraph a message in the sky saying, "Just Bring It"

Basically What You're Dealing With

• One of the strongest telepaths on Marvel Earth
• A full fledged Green Lantern (that has been nerfed to the speed of sound, but not perception/reaction because he had those feats without the ring)
• 3 people with BFR
• 3 people with teleportation
• One person with intangibility
• One person with sonic persuasion
• Molecular Telekinesis

Sorry about the length of it @dedmanwalkin but if I do advance, I don't want to have to do another intro.

@hulkage: you sure this is your first tournament? lol

@thenewbluebeetle007: I'm a quick learner...lol.

@hulkage: @dedmanwalkin: Nice intros this is looking good!

@hulkage: Telepathy! Genjutsu! Charmspeak! All seem really impressive but they are COMPLETELY useless here. You aren't facing off against humans, you are facing off against constructs and robots. They don't give a crap about your magic or your chakra or your telepathy as they are 100% immune. Banner is the only one you can hope to use them on but it will still be useless there.

Jean Grey

Jean Grey is completely useless here and will be dead in moments.

Tony has built TP scramblers that work up to Phoenix Level! Meaning no telepath ever is getting inside Banner's brain. In addition, Green Lantern Rings allow him to render himself immune to TP and Banner has already completely resisted some of the most powerful telepaths in Marvel. Her telepathy is useless here!

Going astral was a bad idea, just ask Steven Strange when he tried the same thing. Banner can perceive Astral Beings and that is when he uses Mjolnir to hit her with a God Blast. Her Astral Form is nowhere near powerful enough to resist a blast of that magnitude and she is either killed or forced back into her body 10 miles away where she'll be facing off against a Phoenix Buster upgraded Son of Hulk. His psionic disruptor weapon will render her powerless allow him to slice her to ribbons. She dies, again!

Piper McLean

She dies second.

After she foolishly tries to manipulate one of the Sons of Hulk, Banner will analyze the sonic profile and deduce what she is doing. At this point, he creates a sonic filter for his Thorbuster which should render her Charmspeak useless against him. Once the Phoenix Buster Son kills Jean Grey, Piper is defenseless against the Mach 10 attack speed of a Son of Hulk. It's Uru enhanced gauntlets will punch right through her. She dies being the next useless person on your team!

Kakashi and Kisame

All forms of Genjutsu are useless here because eye contact will never be made. Even if you ever get to see his eyes, they will have unceasing crimson concussive energy spewing forth. Genjutsu is useless.

You think Kamui is powerful but it is of no value here. Mjolnir allows Banner to outright ignore it. Even if you do hit him with it, he'll just teleport back. In addition, once Banner's sensors detect that it is Chakra-based, he'll just use Mjolnir's Life-Force Absorption to simply drain both Kakashi and Kisame of all their Chakra. They are now powerless and will be slain in horrible ways by Sons of Hulk.

Percy Jackson

Percy Jackson really brings nothing to the table that is anyway worrisome.

Green Lantern Constructs mean nothing to Red Lantern Constructs. They literally melt through even the strongest one. When Banner barfs up his Green Scar-backed Hulk Constructs, they will smash through everything Percy throws at them. They will also be moving at the speed of sound so they'll render all his constructs useless as well as making his shields useless. This allows an Uru-claw armed Son of Hulk to slice him to ribbons. With him dead, all his constructs disappear.

Nick Gautier

I think what you really mean is that Nick is well over the 5 points you paid for him and you don't want to get him DQed. Until you provide any information on him, he gets God Blasted. The Ether only exists in the Dark Hunter Verse, it is of no use here.

Overall, your team has no real adaptability or ability to counter the versatility and ridiculous level of power my Bruce has. Bruce could stomp the JLA into the ground.

Really sorry about this, I'm rooting for both teams, so when I say this, it's for the sake of integrity - Kakashi's Mangekyou Sharingans don't have access to Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi.

Again, I know I'm butting in and I apologize, just I want this Debate to be Integral.

@sebast_allen: well IIRC the Susanoo was said to only awaken when both abilities of the MS were awakened, the Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi respectfully.

@hulkage: Yeah, I guess so... Anyway, Good Luck Bro!

@sebast_allen: It is not as though Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu will be of value here.

@dedmanwalkin said:

@hulkage: Telepathy! Genjutsu! Charmspeak! All seem really impressive but they are COMPLETELY useless here. You aren't facing off against humans, you are facing off against constructs and robots. They don't give a crap about your magic or your chakra or your telepathy as they are 100% immune. Banner is the only one you can hope to use them on but it will still be useless there.

Well lets find out.

Jean Grey

Jean Grey is completely useless here and will be dead in moments.

Tony has built 1. TP scramblers that work up to Phoenix Level! Meaning no telepath ever is getting inside Banner's brain. In addition, 2. Green Lantern Rings allow him to render himself immune to TP and 3. Banner has already completely resisted some of the most powerful telepaths in Marvel. 4. Her telepathy is useless here!

1. Scans and feats please.
2. Green Lantern Rings do not give TP immunity. They give TP Resistance for example:

Feat of Jean Grey overcoming TP resistance...

3. Depowered Banner has no telepathic resistance feats at all so I have no clue where you received that info from. And Jean Grey has already TP'd Banner.

4. Explain how it is useless...

Going astral was a bad idea, just ask Steven Strange when he tried the same thing. Banner can perceive Astral Beings and that is when he uses Mjolnir to hit her with a God Blast. Her Astral Form is nowhere near powerful enough to resist a blast of that magnitude and she is either killed or forced back into her body 10 miles away where she'll be facing off against a Phoenix Buster upgraded Son of Hulk. His psionic disruptor weapon will render her powerless allow him to slice her to ribbons. She dies, again!

Depowered Banner only saw astral projections, he never did anything to them at all. Mjolnor has been stated to only give flight and weather control in this tournament unless proven that you can master it in that amount of time given. Mjolnor being magic is not something that you can just study and was not included inside your prep. I doubt that you will be able to do a god blast by winging it. Oh and her shields might be able to do the trick even if by some miracle you do find a way to perform one:

Gallery

I think they uploaded backwards so bare with me.

You assume that depowered Banner shares all of the same feats as Hulk does when he is in this form. He doesn't. Depowered he is just a normal, but extremely smart human.

Piper McLean

She dies second.

After she foolishly tries to manipulate one of the Sons of Hulk, Banner will analyze the sonic profile and deduce what she is doing. At this point, he creates a sonic filter for his Thorbuster which should render her Charmspeak useless against him. Once the Phoenix Buster Son kills Jean Grey, Piper is defenseless against the Mach 10 attack speed of a Son of Hulk. It's Uru enhanced gauntlets will punch right through her. She dies being the next useless person on your team!

This is assuming that you can put Jean down, which you cannot. Oh and robots and electronics aren't a problem because they can be charmspoken too.

‘Come on, then.’ She led the way to the prow, humming one of her dad’s favourite songs – ‘Summertime’.

When she got to the figurehead, she put her hand on Festus’s neck. His bronze scales were cold. There was no hum of machinery. His ruby eyes were dull and dark.

‘You remember our dragon?’ Piper asked.

Khione scoffed. ‘This cannot be your secret. The dragon is broken. Its fire is gone.’

‘Well, yes …’ Piper stroked the dragon’s snout.

She didn’t have Leo’s power to make gears turn or circuits spark. She couldn’t sense anything about the workings of a machine. All she could do was speak her heart and tell the dragon what he most wanted to hear. ‘But Festus is more than a machine. He’s a living creature.’

‘Ridiculous,’ the goddess spat. ‘Zethes, Cal – gather the frozen demigods from below. Then we shall break open the sphere of winds.’

Skipping ahead of a bunch of empty dialogue (trust me there isn't anything significant I'm leaving out but you can check that for yourself)

‘You fool!’ Khione yelled.

Before the goddess could go after the sphere, Piper cried, ‘Our secret weapon, Khione! We’re not just a bunch of demigods. We’re a team. Just like Festus isn’t only a collection of parts. He’s alive. He’s my friend. And when his friends are in trouble, especially Leo, he can wake up on his own.’

She willed all her confidence into her voice – all her love for the metal dragon and everything he’d done for them.

The rational part of her knew this was hopeless. How could you start a machine with emotions?

But Aphrodite wasn’t rational. She ruled through emotions. She was the oldest and most primordial of the Olympians, born from the blood of Ouranos churning in the sea. Her power was more ancient than that of Hephaestus or Athena or even Zeus.

For a terrible moment, nothing happened. Khione glared at her. The Boreads began to come out of their daze, looking disappointed.

‘Never mind our plan,’ Khione snarled. ‘Kill her!’

As the Boreads raised their swords, the dragon’s metal skin grew warm under Piper’s hand. She dived out of the way, tackling the snow goddess, as Festus turned his head one hundred and eighty degrees and blasted the

Boreads, vaporizing them on the spot. For some reason, Zethes’s sword was spared. It clunked to the deck, still steaming.

Piper scrambled to her feet. She spotted the sphere of winds at the base of the foremast. She ran for it, but before she could get close Khione materialized in front of her in a swirl of frost. Her skin glowed bright enough to cause snow blindness.

She just spoke and gave a metal dragon sentience. She just talks to all of your machines and causes them to malfunction.

Kakashi and Kisame

All forms of Genjutsu are useless here because eye contact will never be made. Even if you ever get to see his eyes, they will have unceasing crimson concussive energy spewing forth. Genjutsu is useless.

Just because you have red energy spewing from your eyes doesn't mean your mind is protected against illusionary mind rape.

You think Kamui is powerful but it is of no value here. Mjolnir allows Banner to outright ignore it. Even if you do hit him with it, he'll just teleport back. In addition, once Banner's sensors detect that it is Chakra-based, he'll just use Mjolnir's Life-Force Absorption to simply drain both Kakashi and Kisame of all their Chakra. They are now powerless and will be slain in horrible ways by Sons of Hulk.

Show scans of Mjolnir giving the ability to negate dimensional BFR. And once again you haven't proven that you could master Mjolnir enough to power drain and if you want to go the drain his life force route then Kamui takes his head off before he gets a chance... But until you show that Mjolnir resisting dimentional BFR then everyone gets trapped in either the Green Lantern Ring or Kamui Dimension.

Percy Jackson

Percy Jackson really brings nothing to the table that is anyway worrisome.

Green Lantern Constructs mean nothing to Red Lantern Constructs . They literally melt through even the strongest one. When Banner barfs up his Green Scar-backed Hulk Constructs, they will smash through everything Percy throws at them. They will also be moving at the speed of sound so they'll render all his constructs useless as well as making his shields useless. This allows an Uru-claw armed Son of Hulk to slice him to ribbons. With him dead, all his constructs disappear.

The thing is I have an actual Green Lantern, you have a man with a green and red power ring, big difference. You have no mastery over it and new red lantern rings are in an uncontrollable rage with no control over there actions, that makes you very easy to deal with seeing as you are basically a mindless rage monster. You get dealt with handily. Not to mention that there are 100 green power ring wielding zombies being controlled by Nick and Piper to help combat your sons of hulk.

Nick Gautier

I think what you really mean is that Nick is well over the 5 points you paid for him and you don't want to get him DQed. Until you provide any information on him, he gets God Blasted. The Ether only exists in the Dark Hunter Verse, it is of no use here.

Here you are trying to spam godblast again when even Thor can't just fire it at will, once again you have no mastery over your equipment so while the Theory is nice, you lack a few areas to make you truly complete and about Nick, I asked if people were familiar with him and no one suggested that I change him from 5. But isn't it common knowledge that in battles that both aspects of the universe are merged? And since it is multiversal anyway, shouldn't it work regardless:

Just as he was about to give up, he heard a piercing drone inside his head. Suddenly, the darkness around them seemed to expand and then contract like a rubber band snapping back on him. And in that one moment, his senses sharpened and he saw …

Everything.

Literally. The entire universe was laid out before him. The Nick he’d replaced in this realm was destined for law school. He’d graduate at the top of his Harvard class and end up in Congress, an advocate for real change that helped everyone. Best of all, he’d marry his college sweetheart and have a huge family that adored him and their grandparents. In the flashing images, he saw Kyrian’s death in ancient Greece. Saw Kyrian’s resurrection at Artemis’s hands, and his centuries of guardianship where Kyrian stood strong. Until the day a kidnapped Kyrian awoke with Amanda Devereaux by his side, and the two of them were forced to run from an enemy out to kill them both.

Unable to control the visions that came at him like a supersonic strobe, Nick swung toward his father.

Only he didn’t see the fierce beast he knew the man to be. He saw his father much younger, in the hands of their enemy gods. Beaten and branded. Bleeding and chained. Trembling from the weight of his physical agony, his father knelt at the feet of a creature who held no compassion or mercy. “You were born to serve us, Malachai. Never forget who owns your life. Who you answer to.”

Noir—the god Nick couldn’t even mention by name without feeding his powers—savored his control over the Malachai. And he was aptly named. His hair was blacker than Caleb’s and his eyes were so dark it was hard to see where the iris stopped and the pupil began. Laughing, Noir fed from Adarian, draining his powers until the Malachai could no longer support his weight even on his knees. He hit the ground and lay in a defeated lump with tears streaming from the corners of his eyes while he begged silently for death. It was how all Malachai had been kept since the dawn of time, and it was what had made them so lethal and brutal. A weapon of ultimate massacre.

The definition of Ether is literally: a very rarefied and highly elastic substance formerly believed to permeate all space, including the interstices between the particles of matter, and to be the medium whose vibrations constituted light and other electromagnetic radiation.

So obviously it would work here.

Overall, your team has no real adaptability or ability to counter the versatility and ridiculous level of power my Bruce has. Bruce could stomp the JLA into the ground.

You have no way to combat BFR or a whole host of other abilities. You also forget that many of my characters far outstrip you in combat and reaction speeds, helping us to get our attacks off quicker than you could. We have too much Hax on our side and versatility for you to deal with.

@sebast_allen: @oreoassassin: Do you all want to be tagged for votes at the end?

T4V

@jacthripper: will do...

@hulkage:

Jean Grey

The Phoenix Buster was immune to everything the Phoenix could throw at it. It was designed around disrupting psionic energy. Telepathy is of no value. Tony Stark has never feared a telepath since developing his anti-TP tech. Nekron and most Black Lanterns use Empathy not Telepathy. Empathy functions on a completely different system. Just because you have TP resistance it does not mean you have Empathic Resistance. But again, it is not just the Ring doing the job it was an aggregate of the Ring and Tony's anti-TP tech. There is no difference between the Hulk and Banner mentally, they share the same Brain, he has been there since before the Gamma Bomb. During Prep, I used Extremis to network all of the various personalities together allowing me to have Banner's full TP resistance without issue. Also, Hulk let her in, had the Hulk not let her in she would have not been able to do anything. Combined together, this means that Banner is immune to TP.

You'd have a point about Mjolnir if I just had it on its own but I don't I have Thorbuster and Tony's brain. Thorbuster allowed Tony to wield Thor's power so well that he was able to effortlessly knock it aside. Did I mention that the Thor that the Thorbuster fought was Rune King Thor with full access to the Odinforce? I have Tony's Brain, Thorbuster, and Mjolnir, Banner is basically Rune King Hulk! If Thorbuster can handle the Odinforce what makes you think he can't God Blast two times in one battle? Again, the God Blast is only to get you back into your body so that the Phoenix Buster can kill her. Remember Phoenix >>>> Jean Grey so she dies no problem to Phoenix Buster.

Piper

Festus was sentient before that event. He is a magical construct, not a machine. Just because he has gears and such that make him appear to be mechanical doesn't mean that he is. Show me here telling a camera to not look at here or sweet talking a lock and we'll talk but manipulating Festus is not a feat. Even if you can do that, I just initiate self destruct while analyzing your Charmspeak. Heck, since I have Thorbuster, I could actually absorb and redirect that energy. I effectively have knowledge of all of your attacks because your team doesn't know that my team is just one guy controlling multiple drones. You'll attack my Sons of Hulk and divulge all your powers to Banner and he'll counter them just like he did in his fight with Victoria Hand. In case you didn't know, my Sons of Hulk where always diagnostic implements meant to gauge your team's abilities so that counters can be made.

Kisame and Kakashi

Tsukuyomi and most forms of Genjutsu require eye contact, with my eyes COMPLETELY obscured by red ruby death eye contact can never be made. You know how you can't lift Mjolnir without being worthy? That also applies to teleportation of any sort. You can't teleport it unless you are worthy either. You'd have to have my authorization to do so. But again, you'd try this trick on one of my Sons of Hulk before you ever tried it on Banner because Banner is literally in a build-sized suit of armor. Once he sees that is your strategy, he'll just drain you. If I can't use Mjolnir, then Banner-Stark will just whip something up. They are both masters in creating energy absorption technology. Worse comes to worse, my contingency plan comes into effect. Are you seriously suggesting that you can use a Green Lantern Ring to BFR a Green Lantern Ring? Ridiculous.

Percy

You do not have an actual Green Lantern, you have a kid who saw how a Green Lantern Ring works. What kind of Willpower feats does Percy have? Bruce Banner willed the Hulk into existence, he is literally a construct of his mind. Every instance of the Hulk is a show of his willpower. Bruce Banner has willpower feats on par with even the greatest Green Lanterns. As for rage, the Hulk and the Green Scar both have that in spades. See as long as the brains are independent but networked, each personality can have control over a specific ring. Take for instance Maash and Duel Enkham, both have multiple brains and personalities but not all of those brains and personalities are Sinestro Corp members. Maash has three minds but only two of them are Sinestro Corp Members while the last one is just along for the ride. Only half of Duel is capable of wielding the Ring but it does all the same. This is why I spent my prep using Extremis, it allows me to run both rings simultaneously with no defects. I have access to Hulk's Rage and Banner's Willpower simultaneously allowing Banner to wield them with ridiculous alacrity. Another benefit of Extremis is technopathy, which Banner can use to directly interface with the Ring's AI in ways that Hal Jordan simply cannot. He'll know its secrets in seconds and have it downloaded into his mind.

Nick

Zombies can't wield Green Lantern Rings, they have no willpower to make them work. You may as well have put Green Lantern Rings on Toasters. Why do you think I ignored that point? It was a waste of time to address but since you insist on making me do so. Thanks for showing how stupid Percy really is tactically.

You are using an obscure character, you can't expect anyone to know who he is much less what level of power he should be put at. Until you start posting stuff about Nick, he gets Godblasted to death. People using obscure characters have to POST MORE information than people using well known characters. You have posted none thus far. So, until you provide even a modicum of information, he is dead.

Your quote did not show that the Ether was Multiversal. All battles take place in a neutral universe unless specified to give neither side any type of home field advantage. Unless you can show me a peer reviewed scientific study revealing the Ether is real, you can't use it anywhere but within the Dark Hunter Verse. Your Ether powers work but they only apply to Dark Hunter Verse, not the Marvel or DC universe which means peering into it can only reveal information about the Dark Hunter Verse not my universe.

Teamwork

As things have progressed nicely, I want to talk about teamwork! How is it that your team is functioning together? Does everyone have the same morals? Will they even work together? You've spent no time detailing how these complete strangers are somehow coming together and fighting as one unit. You have no prep so until you explain this, your first 5 minutes are spent trying to talk to one another and explain what is going on. My team is one person with prep, so I come into battle with a plan that is executing immediately. You have roughly 10 seconds before my Sons of Hulk are punching your team to death. So how are you coordinating so quickly? Telepathy is nice but unless she is explaining what happens beforehand she is going to piss off some people for getting in their head without consent. See, Perfect Teamwork was 9 points and prep was 2 points and you bought neither. All that stuff you said that you'd be doing during prep, does not happen because you have no prep. By wasting points on useless characters like Kisame, you could have spent them on prep. My team has perfect teamwork and prep so until you address this your strategy doesn't happen while my Sons of Hulk are beating your team into submission in 10 seconds.

@dedmanwalkin: did you post any scans in that?

because right now they're just big, intimidating boxes of text that lack readability.

If you posted scans the same thing happened with beatboks1, that's why I'm asking.

@thenewbluebeetle007: I am not big on scans. Pretty pictures do not a good debater make. I have addressed some of the monolithism though. I will post limited scans if necessary but as of right now with how little information Hulkage is actually providing for his characters, I am disinclined.

@dedmanwalkin: ah, ok. Just making sure nothing bugged out for you

@thenewbluebeetle007@dedmanwalkin It finally posted!!!

@hulkage: You don't recognize how badly you just hurt your own team do you?

I assumed you were limited to just using Jean Grey pre-Phoenix not the Omega Level Mutant that is Jean Grey the Younger! If that is the one you are choosing to use then you are in significant breach of the rules. That Jean Grey is capable of LIGHTSPEED and Planet Busting if she can keep up Gladiator which means she has multiple 5 point traits which means she is an 8 point character which she should have been to begin with given that she is an OMEGA LEVEL MUTANT! This means you have used 30 points here!

You have basically a couple options here:

1. You nerf her to the limits of 3 pointers which means she is now restricted to pre-Phoenix existence feats which means nothing post Uncanny X-Men #101 which makes her TP less than useless.
2. You forfeit her and replace her with someone else that I approve since you can't be trusted to rank people correctly.
3. Your forfeit up to 5 points of worth of your team.

Now this brings your overall credibility into suspicion. I am going to request the best feats you have for Nick because his obscurity makes me think you have snuck in like a 20 pointer for 5 points.

Now let's talk about your supposed counters.

Jean Grey

Iron Man beat Apocalypse with no problem and he is a powerful telepath and telekinetic. The Mandarin wears a ring that grants him powerful telepathy and Iron Man can ignore it. Puppet Master failed to take control of him via telepathy. Baron Zemo, using a mind control device, was completely unable to control Iron Man despite taking all the Avengers. He also completely humiliated Emma Frost in a battle. As he was teamed with Prof X alot on the Illuminati, he developed dampeners to keep him out of his head.

Gallery

I hope this suffices? I really disdain having to support claims that should be readily apparent from even the weakest of Google-fu.

MMH wasn't using his telepathy to achieve those results he was using Empathy! It says in the boxes "Fear" and "Will" highlighted by the colors on each one. The Black Lanterns feed on that type of thing! Nothing that MMH was telling them was anything that was a secret to him as he has known them most of their superhero lives.

The Hulk was around well before Banner ever got hit by the Gamma Bomb. It is a mental construct he created to protect him from his life. When Banner was hit by the Gamma Bomb radiation, the Hulk did what the Hulk was created to do, protect Banner. The Hulk isn't protected against TP due to Gamma Radiation, it is that his mind is divided, fractured. For instance, the Joker has easily made MMH focus his entire considerable powers to keep him contained. With the addition of the Green Scar and Tony's mind, Banner now has 4 minds to your 1.

All 3 layers of defense, make your telepathic attack useless at best.

Now here is the scan that should cease your claims against my Godblasting:

For reference this is Rune King Thor:

See the gold bars between his round dealies, dead give away that it is Rune King Thor! That's right, my armor is powered by the same magic that makes Thor's Hammer work. Not only can Banner absorb the entire power of Mjolnir, he can redirect it at will. You are right, Banner doesn't really have the godly life force of Thor but Cyclops does! His Body is psionically linked to a dimension of UNLIMITED ENERGY. Using Mjolnir and Thorbuster as a conduit, I can use that energy as the source for his Godblast! See, I thought of everything. Why do you think I spent time during prep altering his body? I had planned for this. So enjoy the Godblasts, as I can keep them coming indefinitely. Every part of my builds is designed to fold into every other part of my build to strengthen it!

Piper

Humans can be programmed, humans can be turned on and off. Its called behavioral modification and knocking someone out. Most sentient beings are subject to both of those things. What happened after Beckendorf's death? Did the Dragon go a bit mad? Interesting, how does a mindless automaton just go mad? When my grandmother died, her coffeemaker didn't start burning the house down. Am I saying that Festus would win a quiz game? No, but he was already a low-level sentient. At best, she made him smarter. You are also really discounting his magical nature here? Like he is just some run of the mill machine? He was fashioned from magic metal, is powered by magical energy, and is controlled via magic. Magic often works quite well with magic, whodathunk? Again, show me her sweet talking a car or some other mindless machine and we'll talk but until then, my Sons of Hulk are safe. You only have this one feat don't you? What if it is just PIS? Not looking good on the believability.

You think that Piper's Charmspeak is just sound coming out of her mouth? No, that is magic, those are spells. Magic and spells are both energy just like the energy that Thorbuster can absorb. Once Piper tries her little speech, Banner will detect the energy she is emanating and then create a means of nullifying it.

Kakashi and Kisame

Holy crap, it actually attacks the brain not the mind? Well that sucks for you because I don't even need Cyclops' eyes to stop it from working. You know how my prep involved a drastic re-design of Banner's brain? Guess what? I've got what is essentially 4 brains, each capable of independent action but also networked. When you Tsukuyomi him, it goes to one of the brains. Once the attack is detected, the other brains can then purge the intrusion because now your Tsukuyomi is up against Tony Stark's or Banner's Hacking. Extremis Brains are more machine than biological. After purging the Tsukuyomi like a Virus, Tony or Banner develops a Firewall that prevents any of their brains from being hacked.

Banner was whipping up new counters to everything that Victoria Hand was throwing at him when they fought. To the point that even before she was able to deploy a specific weapon at her command, he had already countered it. Banner turned trash he found into highly effective pieces of technology. He was able to hack an entire guys life with little more than an iPod. Don't even get me started on Tony Stark, with Extremis, he was designing 5 different armors simultaneously for completely different purposes. Both of these guys excel at on the spot improvisation to the point that fighting them unarmed and depowered is MORE dangerous than fighting them armed and powered up. Norman Osborn was so scared of Bruce Banner that he purposely started leaking Gamma Radiation in every place that was experimenting on Oldpower. That's right, Norman Osborn thought that the Hulk was LESS dangerous than Bruce Banner.

Ether

Before I get into the rest, let's talk about this Ether you think gives you an advantage. You posted this link which states:

In 1887, a crucial experiment was performed by Michelson and Edward Morley in an attempt to detect the existence of the ether. The experiment, named the Michelson-Morley experiment in honor of its authors, shocked the scientific community by yielding results which implied the non-existence of ether. This result was later on used by Einstein to refute the existence of the ether and allowed him to develop special relativity without this artificial (and non-existent) constraint.

Yeah, the experiment disproved the existence of Ether in our world and Einstein, now free of this "artificial constraint" was able to get some REAL science done. So thanks for completely disproving your point for me! Did you even read your link?

Anyways, now that the Ether is not present in any universe but those which suggest that it is thanks to Suspension of Disbelief. Suspensions of Disbelief states that unless it is specifically indicated, the fictional universe functions exactly like ours. Find me an Ether for DC or Marvel and we'll talk but until you do, it doesn't exist in either of them. Now since it does not exist in either the DC or Marvel universe as proved by YOUR EVIDENCE, it cannot contain any information from either the DC or Marvel universe. It is hard to show the past, present, and future of something that DOES NOT EXIST IN YOUR UNIVERSE. Let me use a visual explanation since words have failed me.

See how the Marvel and DC timelines intersect because they have canon occurrences of them intersecting with one another, meaning we have 100% proof that the two universes are intertwined. Likewise the Dark Hunter Verse and the Ether have canon occurrences of them intersect with one another, meaning we have 100% proof that the two are intertwined. Now do you see how neither the Dark Hunter Verse or the Ether intersect with either the DC or Marvel universe? This is because they don't connect with one another in ANY form of canon. Now let's think about the universes as though they were computers. The Ether contains all the information within the Ether and can access the networked Dark Hunter Verse's hard drive. Now since the Ether is not networked to the DC or Marvel universe hard drives, it CANNOT pull information from those drives. You are suggesting that because the Ether knows the entirety of the Dark Hunter Verse that it somehow also knows 2 universes that it HAS ZERO CONNECTION with. So insofar as you are access information on the Dark Hunter Verse-Ether Network, it is completely okay but if you try to pull information from the DC-Marvel Network, you are going to turn up a big Error 404. This is why the Ether is useless against my team and for providing your team with supposed Green Lantern Training.

Percy

Since I have already addressed how ridiculous it is that you think you have anything resembling a real Green Lantern, I'll get back to why Percy isn't going to be as effective as you think. Superman has moved a planet before, it doesn't mean he could use a Ring. Batman has more will than most but even he found using a Ring distasteful. It nearly knocked Green Arrow out when he formed a simple arrow construct with a Ring, reportedly saying you go through that every time. Using a Ring ain't easy which is why you need training to do it not just to learn the skills but to get used to putting your will inside the Ring. Not enough will or inability to put your will into the Ring and it is little more than a nightlight.

Now let's be generous and cede you the ability to use the Ring for a moment to discuss how foolish you have been with it. You know that Green Lantern Rings only come with so much charge, right? They have to be recharged pretty often in order to keep functioning. You have Percy creating thousands of rings for zombies. Now you have effectively divided your limited charge between thousands of rings! Percy's ring only has 1/1000th of its full charge against a full charged Red and Green Lantern Ring! Remember, you don't have an actual Lantern with you to recharge. My Red Lantern Hulk Constructs are going to pound right through his weaksauce shields and constructs and then tear him apart.

You seem to keep forgetting that I used Extremis to do extensive modifications on Banner's Brain AND Body designed to specifically counter much of what you have brought up! He has a second heart to combat the Red Lantern Ring destroying the first one. His brain has been separated into 4 DISTINCT BRAINS which allow him to wield the rings with ZERO negative effects. Savage Hulk can get as a mad as he wants and keep the Red Lantern Ring buzzing while Tony and Banner and Green Scar are completely UNAFFECTED by its effects! Again, Duel Enkham and Maash prove that this is possible like I said in my last post!!!

Extremis allows Banner to import all the information contained within the Lantern Ring's AI into his head instantaneously which means he knows EVERYTHING the Ring knows which includes what it can do and what people in the past have done with it. Banner and Tony both deal with Alien Technology on a monthly basis, Lantern Rings are no different. Why do you think that Cyborg Superman is so good at outright abusing Lantern Rings? Their technological nature is something he can manipulate. Extremis Banner is a technopath he can talk to the Ring at the speed of thought.

Nick

I am fine with you foolishly dividing your power up between 1000 zombies making every one of them and Percy even weaker especially since Nick's Demon Nature means his will is constantly being sapped from him. This means that each of those zombies is now incredibly weak.

Oh Crap, Nick just uses magic for his stuff? Well that makes things easier. See that scan above of the Thorbuster? Literally everything you throw at him will just be channeled and thrown back at you.

You still have yet to detail how you are getting inside Thorbuster, Omega Hulk, and past the Sons of Hulk. Thorbuster took a hit from Rune King Thor, so until you show me some Skyfather-level power, you aren't touching Banner.

Teamwork

Unless I am missing something this is your team in the OP:

Achilles Curse Percy Jackson

GL Ring

Nick Gautier (no future feats)

Piper McLean

Double MS Kakashi

Kisame

Jean Grey (without Phoenix)

See, no prep! I seem to have no problem reading.

Again, Teamwork is not a given unless you have purchased Perfect Teamwork. My team doesn't have to worry about it because he is one guy but yours definitely does. How long did it take for the Avengers to get together? Well more than 15 minutes and you expect people who come from completely different universes to just come together in 15 minutes and do prep stuff as well. How are they just trusting one another? Jean Grey is a good guy, Percy is a good guy, Kisame and Kakashi are morally ambiguous, and Nick is fighting being a bad guy. Heck it took Jean Grey longer than 15 minutes to build her own X-men team. How is she going to explain to people that she is getting inside their head without them instantly attacking her. Any time that someone gets into someone's head everyone always reacts negatively because it is a supreme invasion of privacy. You are treating it like its just a thing that happens to these people every week. Everything my team is employing is something they have used in the past.

Conclusion

My team construction alone makes this a difficult fight for your team. I have built in counters for more than 75% of your team after my prep is done. I can continually counter your team because they have no means of stopping my Sons of Hulk from hitting them first.

@dedmanwalkin said:

@hulkage: You don't recognize how badly you just hurt your own team do you?

I assumed you were limited to just using Jean Grey pre-Phoenix not the Omega Level Mutant that is Jean Grey the Younger! If that is the one you are choosing to use then you are in significant breach of the rules. That Jean Grey is capable of LIGHTSPEED and Planet Busting if she can keep up Gladiator which means she has multiple 5 point traits which means she is an 8 point character which she should have been to begin with given that she is an OMEGA LEVEL MUTANT! This means you have used 30 points here!

You have basically a couple options here:

1. You nerf her to the limits of 3 pointers which means she is now restricted to pre-Phoenix existence feats which means nothing post Uncanny X-Men #101 which makes her TP less than useless.
2. You forfeit her and replace her with someone else that I approve since you can't be trusted to rank people correctly.
3. Your forfeit up to 5 points of worth of your team.

Now this brings your overall credibility into suspicion. I am going to request the best feats you have for Nick because his obscurity makes me think you have snuck in like a 20 pointer for 5 points.

Now let's talk about your supposed counters.

I did nothing that wasn't already addressed in the group PM. Jean Grey is an omega level mutant because of her ability to host the Pheonix. Take the Pheonix away and she is not an Omega level mutant. Scarlet Witch, Franklin Richards, Iceman, and Legion are true omega level mutants. Without Pheonix she is not in the same league as the rest of these mutants. And I never tried to make the argument that Jean Grey was a lightspeeding planet buster and neither would anyone on this site. She fought Gladiator with her astral form, which is pure Psionic energy, or energy from the mind (thought). Thought moves as fast as thought, always has and always will. Just because she can make her thoughts corporeal doesn't mean that she should be classified as such. And plenty of people have gone toe to toe with Gladiator that haven't been at planet busting levels. Would you say that Jean Grey could planet bust with her astral form? If you would then that's funny because I doubt many people on this site would. I only brought up the scan to show that her form is capable of being physically able to keep up with your robots. But by all means @ssj_god@thenewbluebeetle007 if I am in any breach of the rules please let me know because just because @dedmanwalkin feels like I should change them because he now feels like there is a possibility that he cannot win doesn't mean that I have to change them. Let me remind you of something you said in the PM.

Posted by DedmanWalkin (2901 posts) 4 days, 17 hours ago

If you've spent the points to build a team that can become more than the sum of their parts then you should not be penalized. Everyone had access to the same points so if their strategy did nothing to amp themselves they should lose. Team construction is important.

I could have easily complained about your Pheonix Buster armor being too powerful seeing as it was able to combat the freakin Pheonix (You know the one that is multiversal in power) but I didn't because its all in good sport. I could have even complained about your supposed "Rune King Thorbuster" (which I'll address later) seeing as RKT is able to defeat both SS and Nu52 CA simultaneously which makes him a breach of the rules but I didn't because its all in good sport. But now you question my credibility because I show a scan of Jean fighting Gladiator when you have things that can combat "RKT" and the Pheonix Force, stop being a hypocrite.

And about the whole me not buying prep thing...

Everyone please post your final teams. Then we will dispute them if necessary.

Bracket:

Column Head	Column Head
TNBB	haoalchemist
ComicDude360	keidecifer
Jacthripper	solomonthenotsowise
nighthunder	crimsonxxmana
Beatboks1	scottvstheworld
bluejay4	firestormfate1919
dedmanwalkin	hulkage
ssj_god	darkraiden

Teams I have so far confirmed:

ssj_god:

• Ben 10k (no Alien X or speedsters) (3)
• Composite Captain Atom (8)
• X-Man (8)
• Mjolnir (4)
• 15 minutes prep (2)

nighthunder:

• Barry Allen (8)
• Silver Surfer (8)
• Aang (1)
• Thor (8)

crimsonxxmana:

• Jim Mori (8)
• Saitama (8)
• Kid Flash Earth 16 (3)
• Han Jee Han (3)
• Rou (3)

dedmanwalkin

• Bruce Banner (1)
• Red and Green rings (10)
• Mjolnir (4)
• Cyclops Vision (2)
• Stark Prep Package (5)
• Thorbuster Armor (3)

comicdude360

• Composite Kyle Rayner without a ring (1)
• Green Lantern Ring (5)
• Composite Saint Walker with sonic speed (3)
• Martian Manhunter (8)
• No matter manipulation (6)
• 15 minutes Prep (2)

@solomonthenotsowise:

• Necronomicon Ashley Williams (1)
• Ultimate Reed Richards (1)
• Black Panther (1)
• Batman (1)
• Superior Spider-Man (1)
• Deadshot (1)
• Full Knowledge and Perfect Teamwork (9)
• 1 Hour Prep (8)

keidecifer:

• Obito w/ms and rinnegan (5)
• Mayuri (3)
• C.C with Cyclops Vision (3)
• Meleoron with Diamond Skin (3)
• Stark Prep Package (5)
• Immunity to TP (6)

beatboks1:

• Classic Captain Comet (8)
• Composite Animal Man (5)
• Lobo (5)
• Vril Dox II (1)
• 15 minutes prep (2)
• Argus (1)
• Dr. Occult (3)

jacthripper:

• Graviton (5)
• Hank Pym (3)
• H'el (8)
• 15 minutes Prep (2)
• TAO (Wildstorm) (1)
• Immunity to Matter Manipulation (6)

hulkage:

• Double MS Kakashi (5)
• Piper McClean (1)
• Kisame - (3)
• Jean Grey no Pheonix (3)
• Nick Gautier up to book 5 (no future feats) (5)
• 15 minutes prep (2)
• Achilles Curse Percy Jackson with Green Lantern Ring (6)

firestormfate1919:

• update your team

@bluejay4:

• Update your team, you had the Doctor and Cosmic Spiderman as 3 pointers

@haoalchemist:

• General Esdeth (3)
• Mukuro rokudo (3)
• Pick stage (10 points) Pacific ocean in a submarine middle of the ocean no communication on the sub.
• Deadpool healing factor x2 (4 pts)
• 15 min prep (2)
• Iron man armor (3)

@scottvstheworld:

• SSJ3 Goku (8)
• Wonder Woman (8)
• Immune to TP (6)
• 15 minutes of prep (2)
• Hercule Satan (1)

@darkraiden:

• John Constantine (composite) (5)
• Zatanna Composite (5)
• 15 minutes prep (2)
• Monica Rambeau (5)
• Karate Kid (5) composite
• Scarlet Witch (3)

TNBB (me)

• Hulk (5)
• Red Lantern Ring (5)
• Magneto (5)
• Composite Firestorm (including elemental and deathstorm) (5)
• Nth Metal Deathstroke (1)
• Nico di Angelo (1)
• 15 minutes prep (2)

Question anything you like. You will not be able to question after matches have started so do it now (unless it's clearly out of the limit, for example if nobody questions Nick Gautier because nobody knows him and he turns out to be an omniversal threat then he will be banned). I will make the threads.

Good luck to all and let the games begin!

This was taken from the first page of the PM, so I do not know where the disconnect it because I obviously purchased prep. Just scroll down to my section and its plain as day.

Now that we have the questioning of credibility out the way can we please get back to debating? Well, I will, you can do what you choose.

Jean Grey

Iron Man beat Apocalypse with no problem and he is a powerful telepath and telekinetic. The Mandarin wears a ring that grants him powerful telepathy and Iron Man can ignore it. Puppet Master failed to take control of him via telepathy. Baron Zemo, using a mind control device, was completely unable to control Iron Man despite taking all the Avengers. He also completely humiliated Emma Frost in a battle. As he was teamed with Prof X alot on the Illuminati, he developed dampeners to keep him out of his head.

I hope this suffices? I really disdain having to support claims that should be readily apparent from even the weakest of Google-fu.

Thank you and I couldn't find one. I had no problems believing that Iron Man could but I am not a Tony Stark fan so I just wanted to see evidence supporting your claim. Now my question to you is does Iron Man have this in every suit of armor readily built? You have no prior knowledge so unless it is installed in to every single last one of his suits then it doesn't do much good. Also, weren't you the one who said that the suits were only there to analyze a person's power set and the real Bruce was in the tower? Because the Tower has no TP resistance feats at all. In fact I believe there was an instance where Prof X and Emma Frost used TP inside of the Tower although I may be mistaken. It might have been Avengers tower but I'll look into it. But if you do not have your suits on at all times it will do you no good. How will you prep the tower for a telepath that you have no idea is coming?

MMH wasn't using his telepathy to achieve those results he was using Empathy! It says in the boxes "Fear" and "Will" highlighted by the colors on each one. The Black Lanterns feed on that type of thing! Nothing that MMH was telling them was anything that was a secret to him as he has known them most of their superhero lives.

And how do those words prove he wasn't using TP when he was using his TK a few scans earlier. Nekron's empathy didn't work the same as what was shown in the fight between Barry, Hal, and J'onn.

There is also the instance where Guy Gardner got TP'd by Sinestro and went crazy...

Like I said, resistance but not immunity.

The Hulk was around well before Banner ever got hit by the Gamma Bomb. It is a mental construct he created to protect him from his life. When Banner was hit by the Gamma Bomb radiation, the Hulk did what the Hulk was created to do, protect Banner. The Hulk isn't protected against TP due to Gamma Radiation, it is that his mind is divided, fractured. For instance, the Joker has easily made MMH focus his entire considerable powers to keep him contained. With the addition of the Green Scar and Tony's mind, Banner now has 4 minds to your 1.

The Joker is insane, Banner is not. Banner is a rational scientist so you cannot compare the two. And there hasn't been an instance where when Gamma Radiation was not present that the Hulk manifested itself. Everytime all of the Gamma Radiation has been absorbed from Banner, her looses the ability to turn into the Hulk and access his powers which is why I said that there is no such thing as Hulk when Gamma Radiation isn't present. Banner doesn't share feats with the Hulk at all. There have been many instances where Banner has been TP'd when he doesn't have the Hulk in his body. Case and point:

All 3 layers of defense, make your telepathic attack useless at best.

Only one of these showed the possibility of being immune to TP, and that was Iron Man and even then if he isn't in his suit at all times he still can be TP'd.

Now here is the scan that should cease your claims against my Godblasting:

For reference this is Rune King Thor:

First of all this is King Thor, not Rune King Thor. Rune King Thor only appeared in Ragnarok right before Marvel Civil War. The Thor that you provided a picture of was Thor after his resurrection. He had the Odinforce but was not Rune King Thor. This is Rune King Thor:

See the gold bars between his round dealies, dead give away that it is Rune King Thor! That's right, my armor is powered by the same magic that makes Thor's Hammer work. Not only can Banner absorb the entire power of Mjolnir, he can redirect it at will. You are right, Banner doesn't really have the godly life force of Thor but Cyclops does! His Body is psionically linked to a dimension of UNLIMITED ENERGY. Using Mjolnir and Thorbuster as a conduit, I can use that energy as the source for his Godblast! See, I thought of everything. Why do you think I spent time during prep altering his body? I had planned for this. So enjoy the Godblasts, as I can keep them coming indefinitely. Every part of my builds is designed to fold into every other part of my build to strengthen it!

You do not have the Thorbuster armor seeing as it no longer exist. After Thor beat Thorbuster Tony he proceeded to remove the asgaurdian crystal that empowered it and gave him the ability to use that suit. You do not have the technology required to build a Thorbuster suit and I thought I addressed this in the last post. Why do you think Tony has never used or revealed the suit again? Because without the crystal that Thor gave him and took back, he doesn't have the required pieces to reconstruct the suit. And just because you can absorb energy and redirect it doesn't mean you can master it and control it. And what does Cyclops have to do with Godblast? And seeing as his eye beams are not GODLY LIFE FORCE means that it doesn't matter where they come from, he cannot use the Godblast, let it go.

Piper

Humans can be programmed, humans can be turned on and off. Its called behavioral modification and knocking someone out. Most sentient beings are subject to both of those things. What happened after Beckendorf's death? Did the Dragon go a bit mad? Interesting, how does a mindless automaton just go mad? When my grandmother died, her coffeemaker didn't start burning the house down. Am I saying that Festus would win a quiz game? No, but he was already a low-level sentient. At best, she made him smarter. You are also really discounting his magical nature here? Like he is just some run of the mill machine? He was fashioned from magic metal, is powered by magical energy, and is controlled via magic. Magic often works quite well with magic, whodathunk? Again, show me her sweet talking a car or some other mindless machine and we'll talk but until then, my Sons of Hulk are safe. You only have this one feat don't you? What if it is just PIS? Not looking good on the believability.

At the beginning of the story it had been stated that the Hephaestus cabin had been cursed because of Beckendorf's death. The traps weren't working, none of their inventions were functioning, and the mines were going haywire. I guess all of those things are sentient too huh.... A computer can be "smart", a phone can be "smart", a coffee maker can be "smart" (you know the new ones that program themselves to automatically adjust to your liking), but that doesn't make them sentient. Festus can now function on his own with no problems at all. And humans cannot be turned off, nobody can turn off all of the Organs and Brain Functions at will and turn them back on. If that was the case then there would be no brain dead individuals. And Humans can be taught, but that isn't the same as inputting a program into a human's mind and them automatically adjusting to fit the specific instructions of that program.

And now we are going to play the PIS game. Lets look at some of Pipers other feats:

• Charmspoke the primordial earth Goddess Gaea, muliple times
• Charmspoke all of the Olympian gods at once
• Charmspoke Hera and Thalia, the daughter of Zeus
• Charmspoke someone through a radio (an electronic device)

  AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL DIDN’T WANT TO let an unscheduled helicopter land at the Oakland Airport—until Piper got on the radio. Then it turned out to be no problem.

  They unloaded on the tarmac, and everyone looked at Piper.
• Charmspoke Jason's soul back from the Underworld
• Charmspoke all of the giants
• Charmspoke spirits out of peoples body and said they couldn't posess them again and they couldn't

Now compared to all of these things, Charmspeaking a metal dragon doesn't seem like PIS now does it. Now if you are still trying to make the argument that Festus was already smart/advanced then I will make the same argument about all of your suits of armor. She simply yells, "Off," and how do you stop it?

You think that Piper's Charmspeak is just sound coming out of her mouth? No, that is magic, those are spells. Magic and spells are both energy just like the energy that Thorbuster can absorb. Once Piper tries her little speech, Banner will detect the energy she is emanating and then create a means of nullifying it.

You have no Thorbuster, Charmspeak isn't Asgardian energy, and they function just as regular words. Which explains why she can speak them into a radio and the radio waves carry them and they still work just the same. Banner will have to hear the words to detect it and once she does he will not have time to counter it because he is already caught.

Kakashi and Kisame

Holy crap, it actually attacks the brain not the mind? Well that sucks for you because I don't even need Cyclops' eyes to stop it from working. You know how my prep involved a drastic re-design of Banner's brain? Guess what? I've got what is essentially 4 brains, each capable of independent action but also networked. When you Tsukuyomi him, it goes to one of the brains. Once the attack is detected, the other brains can then purge the intrusion because now your Tsukuyomi is up against Tony Stark's or Banner's Hacking. Extremis Brains are more machine than biological. After purging the Tsukuyomi like a Virus, Tony or Banner develops a Firewall that prevents any of their brains from being hacked.

You have two minds and each can be oneshotted via Tsukiyomi. You see even if this ridiculous plan works on Tsukiyomi and one gets shut off while the other one is still around, I have three specific ways that I can intrude upon and control/shutdown your brain.

1. Visually via Tsukiyomi
2. Mentally via Telepathy
3. Sonically via Charmspeak

Simultaneous attacks on both (not 4 because I addressed the Hulk and Green Scar thing earlier) minds cannot be countered by the other because each one is busy dealing with a mental assault of its own. And you have no way to even take out Kakashi because he is completely intangible and once again if push comes to shove then he simply BFR's you and your whole tower to the Kamui dimension.

Banner was whipping up new counters to everything that Victoria Hand was throwing at him when they fought. To the point that even before she was able to deploy a specific weapon at her command, he had already countered it. Banner turned trash he found into highly effective pieces of technology. He was able to hack an entire guys life with little more than an iPod. Don't even get me started on Tony Stark, with Extremis, he was designing 5 different armors simultaneously for completely different purposes. Both of these guys excel at on the spot improvisation to the point that fighting them unarmed and depowered is MORE dangerous than fighting them armed and powered up. Norman Osborn was so scared of Bruce Banner that he purposely started leaking Gamma Radiation in every place that was experimenting on Oldpower. That's right, Norman Osborn thought that the Hulk was LESS dangerous than Bruce Banner.

Trust me I know all of what Banner is capable of (peep the username), but he has no way of defending himself to attacks not even native to his respective universe, especially with no prior knowledge. He is good, but he ain't that good.

Ether

Before I get into the rest, let's talk about this Ether you think gives you an advantage. You posted this link which states:

In 1887, a crucial experiment was performed by Michelson and Edward Morley in an attempt to detect the existence of the ether. The experiment, named the Michelson-Morley experiment in honor of its authors, shocked the scientific community by yielding results which implied the non-existence of ether. This result was later on used by Einstein to refute the existence of the ether and allowed him to develop special relativity without this artificial (and non-existent) constraint.

Yeah, the experiment disproved the existence of Ether in our world and Einstein, now free of this "artificial constraint" was able to get some REAL science done. So thanks for completely disproving your point for me! Did you even read your link?

Anyways, now that the Ether is not present in any universe but those which suggest that it is thanks to Suspension of Disbelief. Suspensions of Disbelief states that unless it is specifically indicated, the fictional universe functions exactly like ours. Find me an Ether for DC or Marvel and we'll talk but until you do, it doesn't exist in either of them. Now since it does not exist in either the DC or Marvel universe as proved by YOUR EVIDENCE, it cannot contain any information from either the DC or Marvel universe. It is hard to show the past, present, and future of something that DOES NOT EXIST IN YOUR UNIVERSE. Let me use a visual explanation since words have failed me.

See how the Marvel and DC timelines intersect because they have canon occurrences of them intersecting with one another, meaning we have 100% proof that the two universes are intertwined. Likewise the Dark Hunter Verse and the Ether have canon occurrences of them intersect with one another, meaning we have 100% proof that the two are intertwined. Now do you see how neither the Dark Hunter Verse or the Ether intersect with either the DC or Marvel universe? This is because they don't connect with one another in ANY form of canon. Now let's think about the universes as though they were computers. The Ether contains all the information within the Ether and can access the networked Dark Hunter Verse's hard drive. Now since the Ether is not networked to the DC or Marvel universe hard drives, it CANNOT pull information from those drives. You are suggesting that because the Ether knows the entirety of the Dark Hunter Verse that it somehow also knows 2 universes that it HAS ZERO CONNECTION with. So insofar as you are access information on the Dark Hunter Verse-Ether Network, it is completely okay but if you try to pull information from the DC-Marvel Network, you are going to turn up a big Error 404. This is why the Ether is useless against my team and for providing your team with supposed Green Lantern Training.

*Sigh*. You were the only one who wanted to know if it is real and asked for a paper on it so I provided one. The Ether is just the representation of everything in nothing. The theory stated that everything existed in nothing, or essentially the Ether. Einstein obviously disproved it but I wanted to show you to give you a concept of what the Ether in the Darkhunter verse was representing. I never stated that it was real, but Sherrilyn Kenyon wanted it to be real in her Darkhunter-verse so by all means, it exist because the author>>>>>you interpretation of how things should work or even Einstein. The Hulk isn't real in the Darkhunter-verse, neither are Green Lantern rings, but the common understanding is that battles occur in a shared or neutral universe where all powers and abilities coexist. Take the Scarlet Witch vs Spectre thread, the Spectre gets his powers from the Source/Presence and Wanda gets her powers from the Chaos Magic. Neither exist in the others universe but in order to compare power, both are allowed to coexist in order to see who would become victorious. Nothing about the Ether contradicts any major fundamental element of either the Marvel or DC verses so I see no reason why you are continuing this tirade. And your picture had some flaws in it. The DC and Marvel timelines have no canon occurrences of them intertwining because all crossover events are considered non canon. There are plenty of instances where events aren't the same in each universe (like the assassination of JFK and how it is depicted and who is at fault or the origins of the olympian gods).

This is how it should look:

Each line represents a different verse.

Red-Marvel

Blue- DC

Yellow- Darkhunter w/ green functioning as the Ether

In a shared universe all of the aspects will exist as one which means that all of Nick's powers in his Universe should work just the same as in the shared universe which is where this battle takes place.

Percy

Since I have already addressed how ridiculous it is that you think you have anything resembling a real Green Lantern, I'll get back to why Percy isn't going to be as effective as you think. Superman has moved a planet before, it doesn't mean he could use a Ring. Batman has more will than most but even he found using a Ring distasteful. It nearly knocked Green Arrow out when he formed a simple arrow construct with a Ring, reportedly saying you go through that every time. Using a Ring ain't easy which is why you need training to do it not just to learn the skills but to get used to putting your will inside the Ring. Not enough will or inability to put your will into the Ring and it is little more than a nightlight.

Here we go being hypocritical again. I have done the same thing that you are attempting to do. In your last post you claimed that your technopathy will allow you to know everything about the ring making you better than Hal Jordan. I have done the same exact thing, just went about it a different way, but somehow I'm being ridiculous? I have access to every feat and an instructions manual on how to do them. Percy has enough willpower to compete with any green lantern.

Definitions of Will:

1. • will²wil/nounnoun: will; plural noun: wills
     1. 1.the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action."she has an iron will"

        synonyms:

        determination, willpower, strength of character, resolution, resolve,resoluteness, single-mindedness, purposefulness, drive, commitment,dedication, doggedness, tenacity, tenaciousness, staying power"the will to succeed"

        • control deliberately exerted to do something or to restrain one's own impulses.noun: willpower; noun: will power"a stupendous effort of will"
        • a deliberate or fixed desire or intention."Jane had not wanted them to stay against their will"

          synonyms:

          desire, wish, preference, inclination, intention, intent, volition"they stayed against their will"

Now I will address each definition in order to show you the amount of will power Percy possesses.

1. Most of the original five books is Percy resisting the temptation from Kronos to give in and join forces with him. He was not swayed and even helped sway some of the gods and demigods back on the right path because of his relentlessness and unwillingness to be broken.
2. His feat of letting someone else be the leader for a change and fight a fight that he could not by taking the whole sky on his shoulders
3. self explanatory as this was basically him in every book

Now let's be generous and cede you the ability to use the Ring for a moment to discuss how foolish you have been with it. You know that Green Lantern Rings only come with so much charge, right? They have to be recharged pretty often in order to keep functioning. You have Percy creating thousands of rings for zombies. Now you have effectively divided your limited charge between thousands of rings! Percy's ring only has 1/1000th of its full charge against a full charged Red and Green Lantern Ring! Remember, you don't have an actual Lantern with you to recharge. My Red Lantern Hulk Constructs are going to pound right through his weaksauce shields and constructs and then tear him apart.

I have created 100 zombies, not 1000. And it was never my intention to create 100 full green lantern zombies. Just simple ones that could create basic contructs. And I don't even know why I'm debating this with you when my whole strategy is BFR, everything else is a contingency plan in case for some odd reason you can't be BFR'd but you can.

You seem to keep forgetting that I used Extremis to do extensive modifications on Banner's Brain AND Body designed to specifically counter much of what you have brought up! He has a second heart to combat the Red Lantern Ring destroying the first one. His brain has been separated into 4 DISTINCT BRAINS which allow him to wield the rings with ZERO negative effects. Savage Hulk can get as a mad as he wants and keep the Red Lantern Ring buzzing while Tony and Banner and Green Scar are completely UNAFFECTED by its effects! Again, Duel Enkham and Maash prove that this is possible like I said in my last post!!!

You have two brains and one of them is succumbing to an uncontrollable, zombie-like rage. There is always that affect as no one has been able to get around it IIRC. Duel Enkham and Maash made it work because the yellow ring has no side effect that consist of uccumbing to an uncontrollable, zombie-like rage. And if for some odd reason you have four brains, while one of them is succumbing to uncontrollable rage, the other three are being simultaneously attacked via Charmspeak, Tsukiyomi, and Telepathy. But you only have two and oh yeah...BFR.

Extremis allows Banner to import all the information contained within the Lantern Ring's AI into his head instantaneously which means he knows EVERYTHING the Ring knows which includes what it can do and what people in the past have done with it. Banner and Tony both deal with Alien Technology on a monthly basis, Lantern Rings are no different. Why do you think that Cyborg Superman is so good at outright abusing Lantern Rings? Their technological nature is something he can manipulate. Extremis Banner is a technopath he can talk to the Ring at the speed of thought.

I already addressed this earlier.

Nick

I am fine with you foolishly dividing your power up between 1000 zombies making every one of them and Percy even weaker especially since Nick's Demon Nature means his will is constantly being sapped from him. This means that each of those zombies is now incredibly weak.

100. And he has great will as well because he is constantly fighting his demon side in order to prove to the world that he can become more than his heritage yada yada. And no they aren't

Oh Crap, Nick just uses magic for his stuff? Well that makes things easier. See that scan above of the Thorbuster? Literally everything you throw at him will just be channeled and thrown back at you.

You have no Thorbuster. Nick's magic isn't asgardian magic/energy. Even if you did have Thorbuster (you don't but lets use our imagination) it only works with asgardian magic/energy because of the asgardian crystal that empowered it. It would not be able to do the same to Dr. Strange.

You still have yet to detail how you are getting inside Thorbuster, Omega Hulk, and past the Sons of Hulk. Thorbuster took a hit from Rune King Thor, so until you show me some Skyfather-level power, you aren't touching Banner.

Addressed all of these.

Thorbuster- you do not possess it, did not fight RKT

Omega Hulk- Molecular TK, BFR

Sons of Hulk- Molecular TK, BFR

Teamwork

Unless I am missing something this is your team in the OP:

Achilles Curse Percy Jackson

GL Ring

Nick Gautier (no future feats)

Piper McLean

Double MS Kakashi

Kisame

Jean Grey (without Phoenix)

See, no prep! I seem to have no problem reading.

Addressed earlier.

Again, Teamwork is not a given unless you have purchased Perfect Teamwork. My team doesn't have to worry about it because he is one guy but yours definitely does. How long did it take for the Avengers to get together? Well more than 15 minutes and you expect people who come from completely different universes to just come together in 15 minutes and do prep stuff as well. How are they just trusting one another? Jean Grey is a good guy, Percy is a good guy, Kisame and Kakashi are morally ambiguous, and Nick is fighting being a bad guy. Heck it took Jean Grey longer than 15 minutes to build her own X-men team. How is she going to explain to people that she is getting inside their head without them instantly attacking her. Any time that someone gets into someone's head everyone always reacts negatively because it is a supreme invasion of privacy. You are treating it like its just a thing that happens to these people every week. Everything my team is employing is something they have used in the past.

If you wanna go down this route then allow me to shed some knowledge. Banner and Stark have almost never been on the same terms. In fact they have a severe and mutual dislike for each other so how do you expect them to cooperate for five minutes, much less two days. Jean Grey has killed and believes in whatever it takes for the best possible outcome. So has everyone else here. Nick is a good guy with a bad heritage.Kakashi is a good guy. Kisame is a bad guy but is a soldier above all else. He will do what is necessary to get a win and will always listen to one of a higher power but he is just support in this fight and if needed can be easily controlled via Charmspeak or TP. But seeing into each others lives will give each of them an intimate knowledge of their teammates giving them a strong bond/connection.

Conclusion

My team construction alone makes this a difficult fight for your team. I have built in counters for more than 75% of your team after my prep is done. I can continually counter your team because they have no means of stopping my Sons of Hulk from hitting them first.

BFR...at massively hypersonic speeds.

*Sidenote* This is a really fun debate. At least it is for me...keep it coming. I am genuinely interested in the voting decisions.

@dedmanwalkin do you want to open votes or do one more post, because at this rate its gonna take the average person at least 45 mins to read through everything. I honestly think I have enough information but if not then one more post should suffice right?

@hulkage: @dedmanwalkin: he has the thorbuster. It's assumed that he's using it with the crystal. And your team breaks the limits, but nobody called it into question and we're past that phase so it's fine.

@dedmanwalkin: you still in this dude? Should I open it up for votes?

@hulkage: I did not get any notifications for your posts and assumed that you had not replied.

Nope, the limits for 3 where subsonic at best in all forms. You just suggested stated that she could hit at lightspeed. This is why Darkraiden was forced to replace Monica Rambeau because her speed in light form was too fast! You have an 8 point character on your team! Simply put, if any part of a character is over hypersonic then they NOT a 3 point character. You stated that you were using one without Phoenix so I assumed one pre-Phoenix which means before it was a concept. That Jean Grey is a 3 pointer. The one you are using is an 8 pointer.

Also, Omega Level Mutants are Omega Level Mutants. All of them have at least 3 major traits, Limitless Potential, Psionic Form, and Immortality. Jean Grey has everyone of those. Her ability to contain the Phoenix does not make her Omega as that is not how Omegas are classified. Nate Grey is an Omega Level Mutant because he also has all of those and he has the EXACT SAME POWERS as his mom!

I know exactly what I said and how I have configured my team. I stated that if your character choices are more powerful than the sum of their parts then that is okay. You have however, taken a single character and largely lowballed them to get them in for a cheaper price. That is not only disrespectful to other debaters but the tourney creator himself. Everything I chose was within the rules of tourney. Apart they are of little value, together they form my nigh-unstoppable team. Your Jean Grey is not being amped by any of your other choices she is being amped SOLELY by herself. There are rules, I am a master of manipulating rules to my benefit to obtain what I need but I do not break them as you have. But let me explain how I have not violated the rules.

• Phoenix Buster is little more than a modified Hulkbuster designed specifically to take on the Phoenix. Against a non-psionically empowered foe, Phoenix Buster is not really a good choice. It is a purpose built weapon, if you don't fit the purpose it is not as useful. I get it because it is does not exceed the limits for a 5 point item.
• The rules for Iron Man Armors were no Godkiller or Galactus Buster. Thorbuster fits neither of those specifications. It does not violate any of the restrictions for a 3 point item as its speed, damage output, and transmutation are not out of bounds.

See the thing that makes my Banner so powerful is the Thorbuster + Mjolnir + Cyclops + Stark + Banner. If you are keeping score, I paid 15 points for that kind of power. You paid 3 points for someone in clear violation of the limits. TNBB agrees with me. Do you want to know the real reason why this is an issue? It goes to something known as Good Faith wherein we enter a debate trusting that both people are going to uphold the truth. You have shown here that you are willing to be disingenuous if not outright lie to win. That will not go over well with voters.

Jean Grey

That's Extremis Iron Man in that scan, I have Extremis therefore I have his psychic dampeners. Banner never leaves his armor as his armor does all the work for him thanks to Extremis. The Tower is no longer a Tower, it is an armor that Banner is wearing on top of his Thorbuster that functions in a similar manner but is distinct from the Satellite Armor. By the way, this thing held off the majority of the Skrull Armada!

Nekron has no need for Empathic Vampirism as he is being fed directly by the entire Black Lantern Corp. MMH could have done that with no problem without TP. Heck, considering that was what EVERY Black Lantern was doing the exact same thing to everyone they could, I see no reason to believe that this one situation is different amongst the millions of other ones. Maybe your scan is just wrong but all I see here is a ringless Hal Jordan being taken down by thugs. Hal always wears his ring on his right middle finger and you can clearly see it is not there. Guy Gardner isn't even in the scan! Considering that Sinestro has ZERO TP abilities, he likely used his Qwardian Power Ring to manipulate Hal's in ways that Hal was not prepared for since Sinestro is the greatest Green Lantern of all time. Are you getting these from a respect thread or something?

Did you really just say that Banner is not insane? That came from your mouth as an "authority" on the Hulk? (By the way, claiming to be an authority on the Hulk is an appeal to authority fallacy! It weakens your debate, especially when you are wrong.) Perhaps, you haven't read much Hulk but the Hulk wasn't created by gamma radiation he was a mental construct that Banner created when his father abused him as a child. This childhood trauma left him with dissociative disorder. The Dissociative Disorder allows him to create completely new personalities to help him deal with various issues. Like when he created Grief Hulk, Joe Fixit, Devil Hulk, Green Scar, Kluh, Doc Green, the Maestro, and any others I may have missed. When that Gamma Bomb hit Banner, the Hulk did what the Hulk does and protected him. Why do you think the Hulk always says he wants to be left alone? He is always running from what he is using as surrogates of his father. When Rulk depowered Banner just after WWH, Banner strolled right into Avenger's Tower to be analyzed by everyone to verify he wasn't the Hulk anymore. I mean everyone from the X-men to the Avengers to the Fantastic Four to SHIELD! He walked in, said little, and then walked over to the armor and sword that Green Scar had used. Everyone thought he was having a moment but then he grabbed them and teleported away claiming he was taking back HIS stuff! That wasn't even Banner walking into that place! It was the Green Scar in Banner's body walking into the place. Also, can you show me just one scan where Banner isn't WILLINGLY letting someone in his head? Every time you state he has no resistance in a scan, he is letting someone in. TP Resistance only works if you are choosing to let it work. If you are letting down your guard then the person can get in with NO RESISTANCE. I shouldn't have to explain this to someone who has Hulk in their name but you don't seem to have any understanding of how the Hulk functions.

You have yet to show how you are getting through 3 levels of telepathy resistance: Iron Man Armor, Green Lantern Ring, and downright Crazy. Until you can show me that, your TP is useless here.

Molecular TK is also useless against Iron Man Armors and Green Lantern Rings so don't think that it is her saving grace. Her Psionic Form, which violates the rules, was Jean's only real asset.

You are just splitting hairs here now, if you possess the Odinforce, you are King or Rune King. Both are the same because ultimately they are both empowered by the Odinforce which you freely admitted! Odinforce is Odinforce regardless of the name.

Energy is Energy and Mjolnir is an energy conduit capable of focusing infinite energy! Mjolnir takes the godly life force of Thor and converts it into a Godblast. Mjolnir could turn any energy focused through it into a variety of different energy forms. Here, I am using Mjolnir to convert the unlimited energy of the crimson cosmos to filter through Mjolnir to form the God Blast. I could pour Green or Red Lantern energy through Mjolnir and get same results but that would render those two things less useful.

Piper

Festus was not in the cabin when Beckendorf died and no other inventions made in Cabin 9 but outside of it upon his death went haywire. Only things made inside the cabin after his death exhibited inthe curse. What we have here is a case of correlation not causation. The curse could not have been the source of Festus' Haywire state so the only other thing we are left with is him going haywire in mourning for his master's death like a dog or other lower animal. Fact is, you are talking about magic being used to effect a magical construct. Until you show me it working on a mindless non-magical machine, it is not relevant here. All of those feats where against sentient beings not machines. You have 1 outlier that is problematic at best. In those situations, we call it PIS.

Zatanna has used her spells over a radio but it does not mean that the words are not magic. Magic can interface with technology just fine, how do you think Thorbuster works or Doctor Doom's armor? Thorbuster allows Tony to analyze and manipulate magic. Magic is magic whether it is Asgardian or not, Doom has shown this many times.

Kakashi and Kisame

I have already countered all 3 forms of mental manipulation. You have no means of getting to Banner because you can't know where he is.

Also, Intangible doesn't mean crap to magic just ask Kitty Pryde or Moonstone. Kakashi can be as intangible as he wants but when my Uru-fisted Son of Hulk comes at him, he is dying. He'll be too busy fighting the Son to even attempt a Kamui on the massive Omega Hulk. Also, let's say you do, how big a hole can he create? Can he consume an entire tower? Keep in mind that if he doesn't target the right spot, his energy release will be analyzed and countered. You have 1 shot. How are you choosing where to shoot?

Ether

You must not know either the Marvel or DC universe very well at all! In canon, Cyborg Superman fought the Silver Surfer and Green Lantern in the 616 universe. That isn't the only canon intersection but it is the first that comes to mind. Though it should be noted that while they are non-canon for the 616 universe/Prime Earth, those events like the JLA/Avengers and such actually happen in alternate universes. Now, you obviously don't know crap about Scarlet Witch if you think she uses "Chaos Magic." After M-Day, Beast had a talk with Stephen Strange who you might know as the Sorceror Supreme and the FOREMOST authority on magic. Well, Beast asked about Wanda's Chaos Magic and was surprised when Strange told him that "Chaos Magic" DOES NOT EXIST in the Marvel Universe. She was actually manipulating reality on such a scale that her magic was interwoven into the fabric of reality. He could not undo it. Oddly enough, Chaos Magic actually DOES EXIST in the DC Universe. Dr. Fate, a Lord of Order, spends alot of time fighting the Lords of Chaos who use Chaos Magic. In JLA/Avengers, Wanda actually becomes more powerful because she can tap into Chaos Magic. How are you going to make 2 statements that are patently false?

Again, the Ether can only know what the Ether knows from the Darkhunter Verse. Now, unless you bought full knowledge, your characters, including the Ether, only know what they know from THEIR universe. This means that unless the Ether has previous knowledge of the DC Universe or the Marvel Universe it does not know anything about either the Marvel or DC Universe. This would be like someone picking up the Eagle Scope and the Fountain of Hui from the Xiaolin Universe and expecting to be able to use them to see into the DC Universe. It cannot do that because it does not contain knowledge of that universe only the Xiaolin Universe. You didn't buy knowledge and your workaround does not work. You need actual precognition to make it work, you can't just ask a guy who knows everything about your universe how the other universe works. His power works, it is just that what he is asking the Ether for, IT DOES NOT HAVE!

Percy

I am not being hypocritical here at all. Cyborg Superman has used technopathy on Green Lantern Rings. The Guardians ca directly interface with all rings through the Book, which is just a piece of advanced technology. Banner isn't asking some third party about how Lantern Rings work, he is asking the Lantern Ring itself! He is interfacing with them like a computer, downloading the entire Green Lantern Database into Omega Hulk. There is more than enough evidence to suggest this is both possible and doable. Percy cannot do this due to a lack of Technopathy. Had you chosen Leo or another progeny of Hephaestus then you'd have an argument but trying to use a 3rd party who has no canon knowledge of how Lantern Rings work is pointless.

So you've left an inexperienced Percy with less than 1% of power against my full power, full capability Red Lantern Constructs. Hal Jordan, one of the better Green Lanterns, had extreme difficulty dealing with them. All you have done is ensure that Percy has no fighting chance against my constructs.

Nick

You must not know how Green Lantern Rings work, you have to face everything that would prevent you from using Will and overcome it or let it go. Bruce Wayne could not and he knows what a Green Lantern Ring can do. It took everything that Green Arrow had to even make a single Arrow because his will is not high enough. When Nick puts on a Ring, he'll have to face a Green Lantern-empowered Demon Side. How do you think he fares against it?

Magic is Magic, man. Thorbuster and Mjolnir are both capable of absorbing magic. Mjolnir actually has on panel feats of absorbing pretty much any kind of energy. Banner will simply absorb all his magic like he does anything else.

Now Green Lantern Shielding can withstand molecular TK with no problem and so can Tony's Phoenix-Buster. I have access to both capabilities so it is useless.

Teamwork

Banner and Stark are not working together here, they are one and the same. I have no teamwork issues because I have formatted my team to be a singular person with multiple personalities.

So your plan is to use mental manipulation to control your team? Good luck with that, your 15 minutes of prep is spent getting to know one another. Once their attrocities are revealed to one another how are they going to team with them. How is Kakashi going to be okay with someone who has killed an entire world? If X-men and Avengers both fear the Phoenix how is anyone on that team not going to recoil in fear of a person responsible for Genocide? You are taking what is a 9 point item for granted here. It took the movie Avengers, who are from the same universe, several hours to agree to work together. Your team is a time bomb!

Conclusion

BFR of what? A Son of Hulk? Part of the Omega Hulk? You don't know what you are up against. Kakashi also will not just kill someone in the first second of a battle, Green Scar will! Kamui also takes alot longer to move an object of great mass. Omega Hulk is the size of a Skyscraper, using Kamui on him will take several minutes. During that time, Kakashi cannot be intangible allowing a Son of Hulk to kill him. Once dead, his Kamui ceases. Kakashi is a failed attempt.

Now let's talk about my "contingency plans" you remember all of those Gamme Bombs I have? Well, several will be going off immediately at the start of the battle. New York disappears in the blink of an eye. My guys are using BannerTech shields which not only are impervious but actually run on Gamma Radiation! My team will be completely safe but yours, will need to deal with a multi-megaton nuclear blast. Gamma Radiation travels at lightspeed which means that my attack hits you before Kakashi can even start the Kamui. It gets worse for your team after phase 2.

@thenewbluebeetle007:

Sorry, I received no notifications for this thread and I thought he had not replied. Anyways, here is mine.

Also, I included several options for what to do with Jean Grey in my post:

1. You nerf her to the limits of 3 pointers which means she is now restricted to pre-Phoenix existence feats which means nothing post Uncanny X-Men #101 which makes her TP less than useless.
2. You forfeit her and replace her with someone else that I approve since you can't be trusted to rank people correctly.
3. Your forfeit up to 5 points of worth of your team.

Are these not reasonable suggestions? Should his deception not receive some penalty? It is your tourney but in most tourney's DQing a character is the only safe option. I can still win against her but doing so when he got more points seems problematic at best.

@dedmanwalkin: here's what I'm going to do. @hulkage: you can nerf Jean to subsonic if you would like, or not. However, keep in mind that the voters will likely take this into consideration. It's your choice bro.

@dedmanwalkin I take it that it was your last post? Mine should be up before the end of the night and then we can open votes...does that sound good @thenewbluebeetle007?

@hulkage: well voting starts Thursday but seeing the length of your posts I can open it whenever as long as you both agree

@hulkage: Whether I post again is contingent on what is in your last post. If you bring up new information then I'll have to make a counter post. If you simply summarize and make a concluding post then I won't necessarily need to make one.

Voting opens in 2.5 hours. Good debate to both.

VOTING'S OPEN

@solomonthenotsowise@jacthripper@arcus@cosmicallyaware1@oreoassassin@comicdude360@wardemon32@arcus:

one of the best debates I've seen, come vote!

I choose not to vote here. But if I did I'd vote for dedman. Better counters overall although both were good, and you hulkage squeezed every ounce of potential your characters had, but in the end it wasn't enough.

Excellent debate, great job to both.

@thenewbluebeetle007: I didn't get to put up my last post but hats tipped to dedman. He probably will win because I didn't get a chance to counter the last post due to lack of time.

@thenewbluebeetle007: I'll try to vote, feel free to remind me if I forget

I finally finished reading that and I'm still not sure who to go with. Amazing debates by both but I will vote a slight edge to DedmanWalking. I feel his team just had to much versatility and counters to Hulkage's major advantages.

I'll vote once Hulkage gets his counter post up.

@thevivas: he didn't get his post up in time. Vote on the current posts.

@thevivas: he didn't get his post up in time. Vote on the current posts.

I'm going to put a counter up after all the voting is done and tallied. It just doesn't feel right ending it right there but rules are rules.

@myerlanski: @jacthripper: @killerwasp: @vinomonster: @awesomeperson: @theblondegod: @gizmorino:@etheral_dreams: @primebonnick:

Some people who may or may not be interested, but I tag you for enough other things...

@killerwasp@kidphillip@aressword@wbr17@korraspirit@gxrevolution96@jr_avatarexpert@dextersinister@thunderbolt30@nighthunder@metaljimmor@spartankobe@jacthripper@deathhero61@primebonnick@gizmorino@saint_sophie@rijehu@myerlanski@koays@useyourname@justthatkid@hypnosis@pirateking@thatguywithheadphones@silverrings

Come and check it out. Votes would be appreciated. But honestly my lack of a counter probably killed me (ran out of time).

@dedmanwalkin: Gets my vote, he was very decisive in his argument, and really did out the correct points continually. I also agree that Jean should either be nerfed or DQ'ed.

Percy being lightspeed, Hulkage doesn't get someone because they could potentially host the Phoenix force, but Dedman gets something who could potentially strait up fight the Phoenix force, Nick using the Ether in direct battle, Using his Necromancy to raise 100's of the dead, Kakashi using Amatersu, Lol. This thread was a riot, the debaters are really good at what they do, but it was a mess.

*wipes tear* Vote goes to Hulkage.

I second this, I didnt think anyone else would feel the same way XD. Anyway close call guys, both played their cards out and honestly i can see deadman's tactics giving his character wins, but this isn't about wins its about debating and with that i said i feel the hulkage slightly changed my opinion in certain areas that changed my mind in giving him the vote.