#1 Edited by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 Heavy Weight & Low Weight Team-up Tournament Vouile VS Esquire

Vouile-Black Adam & Hulk

VS

Esquire-Ultraman & Booster Gold

RULES

  • You win by debating for your team.
  • No BFR
  • Fight to death or KO
  • Fight takes place on Merged Marvel & DC earth ( City )
  • If debate comes to a standstill, users are allowed to vote
  • Pre-Flashpoint DC characters
  • Current Marvel characters
  • Make good cases
  • No Prep
  • Standard Gear
  • Morals Off

BEGIN !

#2 Posted by marvelbeast (602 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam and hulk ftw

#3 Edited by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

If this fight includes blood lusted Ultraman and Black Adam, it's quite obvious to say Hulk and Booster Gold becaome non-factors for the majority of a million simulated battles.

Between Ultraman and Black Adam, Black Adam would win. For he is a far more better fighter, and just as ruthless if not more. He displayed himself to be Super-man's equal and even at times better, so clearly, I think Black Adam would win the majority between the two. Black Adam's tactical intelligence is also much higher than that of Ultraman's.

Vouile

#4 Posted by laflux (17470 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelbeast said:

Black Adam and hulk ftw

@Vouile said:

If this fight includes blood lusted Ultraman and Black Adam, it's quite obvious to say Hulk and Booster Gold becaome non-factors for the majority of a million simulated battles.

Between Ultraman and Black Adam, Black Adam would win. For he is a far more better fighter, and just as ruthless if not more. He displayed himself to be Super-man's equal and even at times better, so clearly, I think Black Adam would win the majority between the two. Black Adam's tactical intelligence is also much higher than that of Ultraman's.

Vouile

Is their more? scans, additional arguments? Feats?

Or are these your only arguments to put forward?

#5 Posted by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@marvelbeast said:

Black Adam and hulk ftw

@Vouile said:

If this fight includes blood lusted Ultraman and Black Adam, it's quite obvious to say Hulk and Booster Gold becaome non-factors for the majority of a million simulated battles.

Between Ultraman and Black Adam, Black Adam would win. For he is a far more better fighter, and just as ruthless if not more. He displayed himself to be Super-man's equal and even at times better, so clearly, I think Black Adam would win the majority between the two. Black Adam's tactical intelligence is also much higher than that of Ultraman's.

Vouile

Is their more? scans, additional arguments? Feats?

Or are these your only arguments to put forward?

It is a starter. An icebreaker most would call it.

These are not my only arguments "to put forward", for there is more to come as I await the presence and arrival of gentleman Esquire.

Vouile

#6 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vouile said:

If this fight includes blood lusted Ultraman and Black Adam, it's quite obvious to say Hulk and Booster Gold becaome non-factors for the majority of a million simulated battles.

You may want to recalibrate that simulator, because you've missed a key advantage my team has: Booster can fly. Since Hulk has to remain grounded, Ultraman and Booster will start the match and immediately take to the sky. If Adam tries to force their hand by staying grounded with Hulk, my team will pummel him with heat vision and wrist blasters, since your team has no real ranged attacks. And if he flies up to fight them, Booster isn't nearly as outclassed as you believe. He's able to contain an angry Guy Gardner and even Doomsday in forcefields, he's able to hurt and tank hits from Doomsday, and he's even able to tank a blast for Trigon in his own realm. His durability will keep him in the game, and he's got what it takes to dish out some damage. Hardly a non-factor.

Hulk, on the other hand, is entirely a non-factor. He can jump around and throw things, but his lack of flight eliminates any chance he had to do damage.

Between Ultraman and Black Adam, Black Adam would win. For he is a far more better fighter, and just as ruthless if not more. He displayed himself to be Super-man's equal and even at times better, so clearly, I think Black Adam would win the majority between the two. Black Adam's tactical intelligence is also much higher than that of Ultraman's.

Ultraman has also displayed himself to be Superman's equal and even his better. Ultraman has far more versatility than Adam, thanks to his heat vision, freezing breath, and other various Kryptonian-style superpowers. We've got him outnumbered, we've got far more options, and we have the durability to hold up and the power to damage him. Black Adam is handicapped by the reality that he's on his own against two high-tier bricks. Ultraman is every bit as good as he is, so with Booster added, my team will take this almost every time.

#7 Posted by HigorM (4159 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant: where´s my thread? :P

#8 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM said:

@jeanroygrant: where´s my thread? :P

Not made yet

#9 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

You coming back to this? We've only just begun!

#10 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on man, this has been on for 2 days, get some debates in, tomorrow victors are chosen.

#11 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (4558 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll vote Esquire. ...vouile.......practice debates......

#12 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultraman has defeated Superman in Syndicate Rules, and he's also held his own in Adventures of Superman. He's basically the same level as Superman as far as stats, which puts him easily on par with Black Adam. And Booster has some pretty solid strength feats, too.

#13 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vouile: @Esquire: @jeanroygrant: Are we allowed to give each other a hand or is it strictly between the two teams? I got to be honest i am a bigger fan of Vouile's team so yeah not sure if i am allowed to give em a hand.

#14 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: I don't know what Jean's rules about it are, but I don't mind. Tournaments are as much about learning as about winning, so I'd love to hear what you have to say.

#15 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

@Killemall: I don't know what Jean's rules about it are, but I don't mind. Tournaments are as much about learning as about winning, so I'd love to hear what you have to say.

Fair enough but i should get his permission first. Also a minor correct, the fact that Hulk cant fly can simply be corrected because Black Adam can give hulk a small portion of his powers. He has done so to Osaris and made him Black Adam Junior, Captain Marvel has done that same. With even say 1/20 of Black Adam's power, once hulk is off the ground Booster Gold is going to have huge problems getting any sort of advantage over hulk, given his insane durability. Not sure you knew, the last hulk issue Hulk took a blast capable of melting adamantium and withstanding the said blast he ripped Mad Thinkers robot.

While Ultraman might be physically comparable to Adam, he has one huge disadvantage. He is vulnerable to magic, a magic punch from Black Adam should drop him though wouldnt it?

#16 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Forgot about Osiris, good catch. And I can't think of any references to Ultraman having a magical weakness, but since he's essentially Superman, I would guess that he does. However, Black Adam almost never uses magic to amp his punches. He's also never done it against Superman, so I don't think it would be his go to attack against Ultraman, either.

I haven't picked up the new Hulk series yet, but I've heard good things. Is it worth reading?

#17 Edited by Oni_Bane (1696 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

@Killemall: Forgot about Osiris, good catch. And I can't think of any references to Ultraman having a magical weakness, but since he's essentially Superman, I would guess that he does. However, Black Adam almost never uses magic to amp his punches. He's also never done it against Superman, so I don't think it would be his go to attack against Ultraman, either.

I haven't picked up the new Hulk series yet, but I've heard good things. Is it worth reading?

This is morals off Black Adam, doesn't that mean he usually does thing out of the norm? Because a morals off Black Adam is just regular morals on Black Adam. He doesn't hold back, morals on or off.

Edited: Also he did amp his punches with magic in Infinite Crisis against Superboy-Prime. While I do think that SBP couldn't have just taken those hits from BA, I do believe does charge his punches occasionally. Especially if he knows his opponent is Krytonian.

#18 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: Well problem being morals are off, so there isnt anything preventing Black Adam from doing so, but i have yet to see Black Adam use magic punches against Superman. He did so against Superboy Prime and well if failed miserably, but props to him for trying.

I could come up with scan and all if Jean gives me a nod to go ahead, but i think its fair to suggest you have won against Voile, and my interefere might sway the decision which seems a little unfair (you probably would still win, but i think i can make a better case for the team than Voile has done thus far). We will wait and see.

Hulk we only have one issue thus far, and it looks ok, nothing really wow including art and story line. I get the feeling Hulk is going to get a huge power boost though. They are even going to give him a armor kind of thing, and while we do not know what its going to do to Hulk, speculations are it is going to let Hulk fly. Hulk seem to have improved his reaction speed as well, and in this rate he is going to be hard to stop. There was also a sort of hit that Thor is going to be appearing in Hulk series soon, and a huge throwaway that a mysterious popular villain would appear in Hulk 06 - 08, and Wade believes more fan will be cheering for the villain than Hulk, speculation thus far have been that its going to be Thanos, i dont think there are many other villains that will get fans cheering for him i would think, but lets see how it plays.

#19 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall:

I'm not sure if Morals Off implies CIS off. Adam could probably take Ultraman with Magic Punches, but the only time I've ever seen him use them is in that fight against SBP. Since he's never used them against Superman and he has no problems with going all-out, it would seem he either doesn't like to use them or he just doesn't think of it. So if Morals Off means using the objectively best way to win, then I think Adam takes Ultraman. If it means willing to kill without hesitation, then I'm not so sure.

Armored Hulk seems curious, and I like to keep up with which characters are getting power boosts. I might have to pick it up! Thanks for the info.

#20 Edited by Oni_Bane (1696 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Esquire: Well problem being morals are off, so there isnt anything preventing Black Adam from doing so, but i have yet to see Black Adam use magic punches against Superman. He did so against Superboy Prime and well if failed miserably, but props to him for trying.

I could come up with scan and all if Jean gives me a nod to go ahead, but i think its fair to suggest you have won against Voile, and my interefere might sway the decision which seems a little unfair (you probably would still win, but i think i can make a better case for the team than Voile has done thus far). We will wait and see.

Hulk we only have one issue thus far, and it looks ok, nothing really wow including art and story line. I get the feeling Hulk is going to get a huge power boost though. They are even going to give him a armor kind of thing, and while we do not know what its going to do to Hulk, speculations are it is going to let Hulk fly. Hulk seem to have improved his reaction speed as well, and in this rate he is going to be hard to stop. There was also a sort of hit that Thor is going to be appearing in Hulk series soon, and a huge throwaway that a mysterious popular villain would appear in Hulk 06 - 08, and Wade believes more fan will be cheering for the villain than Hulk, speculation thus far have been that its going to be Thanos, i dont think there are many other villains that will get fans cheering for him i would think, but lets see how it plays.

That was a major case of PIS. SBP had already been affected by punches from Superboy and Martian Manhunter. Black Adam is as strong, if not stronger then Superman. I'm not saying Black Adam should have won the fight but the solid 6-piece he gave SBP should have been felt.

Also what does CIS mean?

#21 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18271 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: i though you liked indestructible hulk? :)

#22 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@Oni_Bane said:

That was a major case of PIS. SBP had already been affected by punches from Superboy and Martian Manhunter. Black Adam is as strong, if not stronger then Superman. I'm not saying Black Adam should have won the fight but the solid 6-piece he gave SBP should have been felt.

Also what does CIS mean?

That's true, the physical force should have done damage, even if the magic didn't.

CIS is Character Induced Stupidity, which is when people don't fight effectively because of their personality. So morals or dislike of a power or not realizing their potential and thing like that.

#23 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Killemall: i though you liked indestructible hulk? :)

Was ok, not too bad. You gotta admit there wasnt much of a great story. While its nice to see Hulk kick some a$$, i personally wouldnt rate the story too highly.

#24 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Oni_Bane said:

That was a major case of PIS. SBP had already been affected by punches from Superboy and Martian Manhunter. Black Adam is as strong, if not stronger then Superman. I'm not saying Black Adam should have won the fight but the solid 6-piece he gave SBP should have been felt.

Also what does CIS mean?

I dont think its PIS, also all we have is Superboy Prime saying "it tickles" i interpreted it as him being an a$$ rather than anything else.

#25 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18271 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Killemall: i though you liked indestructible hulk? :)

Was ok, not too bad. You gotta admit there wasnt much of a great story. While its nice to see Hulk kick some a$$, i personally wouldnt rate the story too highly.

i did :), but opinions don't always agree right? it was just the introduction, i'm sure mark waid has some great arcs for us ! :D

it's much better than jason's work.

#26 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Vouile: @Esquire: @jeanroygrant: Are we allowed to give each other a hand or is it strictly between the two teams? I got to be honest i am a bigger fan of Vouile's team so yeah not sure if i am allowed to give em a hand.

You could , but it's time to wrap this match up

#27 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Tournament rounds are getting wrapped up now, vote who you think wins.

#28 Posted by Oni_Bane (1696 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

@Oni_Bane said:

That was a major case of PIS. SBP had already been affected by punches from Superboy and Martian Manhunter. Black Adam is as strong, if not stronger then Superman. I'm not saying Black Adam should have won the fight but the solid 6-piece he gave SBP should have been felt.

Also what does CIS mean?

That's true, the physical force should have done damage, even if the magic didn't.

CIS is Character Induced Stupidity, which is when people don't fight effectively because of their personality. So morals or dislike of a power or not realizing their potential and thing like that.

Ahh makes sense.

#29 Posted by Oni_Bane (1696 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Oni_Bane said:

That was a major case of PIS. SBP had already been affected by punches from Superboy and Martian Manhunter. Black Adam is as strong, if not stronger then Superman. I'm not saying Black Adam should have won the fight but the solid 6-piece he gave SBP should have been felt.

Also what does CIS mean?

I dont think its PIS, also all we have is Superboy Prime saying "it tickles" i interpreted it as him being an a$$ rather than anything else.

Come on bro, he didn't say it tickles when Connor or J'onn hit him. It was a PIS moment.

#30 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

vote who you think wins.

#31 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@Oni_Bane said:

@Killemall said:

@Oni_Bane said:

That was a major case of PIS. SBP had already been affected by punches from Superboy and Martian Manhunter. Black Adam is as strong, if not stronger then Superman. I'm not saying Black Adam should have won the fight but the solid 6-piece he gave SBP should have been felt.

Also what does CIS mean?

I dont think its PIS, also all we have is Superboy Prime saying "it tickles" i interpreted it as him being an a$$ rather than anything else.

Come on bro, he didn't say it tickles when Connor or J'onn hit him. It was a PIS moment.

He was talking about the magic tickling, and he actually brings that up when Mordru attacking him in LOSH: Legion of Three Worlds, when Mordru attacks him. He says "Magic always tickles" or something like that. He just has magic resistance, I guess. But he should have taken damage from the physical part of the punch, since Black Adam is far stronger than Connor.

#32 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

vote who you think wins.

#33 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

This debate needs to honestly hurry up, so I can begin round 2 soon/

#34 Posted by YoungJustice (6887 posts) - - Show Bio

Esquire

#35 Posted by Hoarderofhilarity (299 posts) - - Show Bio

Esquire

#36 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

Esquire

#37 Posted by Oni_Bane (1696 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

@Oni_Bane said:

@Killemall said:

@Oni_Bane said:

That was a major case of PIS. SBP had already been affected by punches from Superboy and Martian Manhunter. Black Adam is as strong, if not stronger then Superman. I'm not saying Black Adam should have won the fight but the solid 6-piece he gave SBP should have been felt.

Also what does CIS mean?

I dont think its PIS, also all we have is Superboy Prime saying "it tickles" i interpreted it as him being an a$$ rather than anything else.

Come on bro, he didn't say it tickles when Connor or J'onn hit him. It was a PIS moment.

He was talking about the magic tickling, and he actually brings that up when Mordru attacking him in LOSH: Legion of Three Worlds, when Mordru attacks him. He says "Magic always tickles" or something like that. He just has magic resistance, I guess. But he should have taken damage from the physical part of the punch, since Black Adam is far stronger than Connor.

Ahh Thank you for explaining that for me, I was confused.

Thats all care about, even if he hadn't infused magic into his punched he still should of felt the physical parts of the punch.

#38 Posted by jsav777 (658 posts) - - Show Bio

Esquire

#39 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Esquire wins.