#1 Edited by k4tzm4n (35208 posts) - - Show Bio

Location:

Gotham City. 10pm. Begin one block apart, visible and near cover. Unpopulated. Everything is on limits (interior of buildings, sewers, rooftops, alleyways, etc)

Rules:

-Random encounter.

-Standard gear.

-Standard elimination rules apply.

-In character.

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#2 Posted by Ferro Vida (34227 posts) - - Show Bio

Kate flashes him and Damian loses consciousness from his nose bleed.

#3 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio

It's hard to say who wins. Both seem to be lacking in feats. I don't even know what to say her regular equipment is either. I've seen her use trick arrows but most of the time her arrows appear to be normal.There was an instance in the Fallen Son book where she dropped Iron Man with some type of EMP arrow.Unlike the real Hawkeye I don't know exactly what type of arrows she has on her.She does have great aim but because arrows are only as fast as the bow and the strength of the characters will allow it's possible Damian won't have a ton of trouble dodging them. She's ok in close combat.I've read a few of Damian's appearences..so I don't know how skilled he's supposed to be, i've never really seen him defeat anyone that was all that skilled. Hawkeye is supposed to be skilled with Swords,Arrows,and Batons...like Mockingbird and Hawkeye but she doesn't really have many feats in the area.I'm leaning toward Hawkeye though because she's more ekperienced than Damian. I usually shoot down experience arguments but in this case I think it works.

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#4 Posted by k4tzm4n (35208 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: I figured Kate would have the arsenal advantage, so I wanted to give Damian the slight advantage of a terrain he's familiar with. I was hoping that could balance that issue a bit.

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#5 Posted by Ferro Vida (34227 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
It's hard to say who wins. Both seem to be lacking in feats. I don't even know what to say her regular equipment is either. I've seen her use trick arrows but most of the time her arrows appear to be normal.There was an instance in the Fallen Son book where she dropped Iron Man with some type of EMP arrow.
She explained that that arrow was a gift from T'Challa, so I would call it a one-off thing. For the most part she seems to only have regular arrows. 
 
@Vance Astro said:
She's ok in close combat.I've read a few of Damian's appearences..so I don't know how skilled he's supposed to be, i've never really seen him defeat anyone that was all that skilled. Hawkeye is supposed to be skilled with Swords,Arrows,and Batons...like Mockingbird and Hawkeye but she doesn't really have many feats in the area.I'm leaning toward Hawkeye though because she's more ekperienced than Damian. I usually shoot down experience arguments but in this case I think it works.
I don't think I've actually seen her use those batons for much. In all honesty, she has more swordsmanship and pure h2h feats then baton feats, IIRC.
#6 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:

@Vance Astro: I figured Kate would have the arsenal advantage

It may not even be true. Maybe someone would know better than me what her regular equipment is but for the most part i've only seen her use regular arrows. 
 
@k4tzm4n said:

 so I wanted to give Damian the slight advantage of a terrain he's familiar with. I was hoping that could balance that issue a bit.

Seems fair.
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#7 Posted by Ferro Vida (34227 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: The sad thing is that Kate has some better Archery feats then Clint does.
#8 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:
@Vance Astro: The sad thing is that Kate has some better Archery feats then Clint does.
I don't believe she does. I've read Young Avengers and Children's Crusade and my scan folder for her is almost empty.
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#9 Posted by Ferro Vida (34227 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: I just flipped through Young Avengers: Family Matters and saw a few good ones; firing three arrows at once accurately, hitting Kree soldiers to disarm them instead of killing them... Maybe I just haven't seen any of Hawkeye's better stuff.
#10 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:
 Maybe I just haven't seen any of Hawkeye's better stuff.
I'd assume it's this. I've seen better feats for Hawkeye's marksmanship with objects thrown right from his hand. 
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#11 Posted by Ferro Vida (34227 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: I recall you once said some of his best feats were in Avengers Disassembled, just before he died.
#12 Edited by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:

@Vance Astro: I recall you once said some of his best feats were in Avengers Disassembled, just before he died.

Well now I think some of his best feats are in the "Blindspots" mini.I also hadn't read a single volume of Hawkeye before I said this.He had ongoings with feats in them.They didn't last but..nobody wants to see him solo.He's an Avenger.Thats where is significance is.
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#13 Posted by Ferro Vida (34227 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: I haven't read it, so that would make sense.
#14 Posted by 202122 (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread turning into a Clint Vs Kate thread but in answer to the original question

Kate Bishop wrecks

#15 Posted by TheSuperHuman (856 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:
Kate flashes him and Damian loses consciousness from his nose bleed.
HELL yes. Kate is muy buena.
#16 Posted by Dane (10474 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't honestly think Kate Bishop has the same tier of fighting skill as Damian, h2h-wise. I think the question is whether he can avoid the projectiles or out-stealth her. Damian undeniably has an environmental advantage, whether he makes full use of it or not is another question entirely though.

#17 Posted by Saren (24321 posts) - - Show Bio
What else ya got?
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#18 Posted by TheSuperHuman (856 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:
What else ya got?
Consistent feats?
#19 Edited by ComicStooge (9664 posts) - - Show Bio

That arrow made a 'FAP' sound. LOL!

Anyway, Damian can catch a single arrow, but could he catch more?

#20 Posted by Saren (24321 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSuperHuman said:

@CitizenBane said:
What else ya got?
Consistent feats?

Consistent in terms of what? What's Kate done in the close combat department? Damian's beaten Zsasz twice, given Tim Drake a decent fight, learned a move from Nobody that can OHKO or OH-kill depending on his morals, plus he's got bombs on that belt of his.

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#21 Posted by TheSuperHuman (856 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@TheSuperHuman said:

@CitizenBane said:
What else ya got?
Consistent feats?

Consistent in terms of what? What's Kate done in the close combat department? Damian's beaten Zsasz twice, given Tim Drake a decent fight, learned a move from Nobody that can OHKO or OH-kill depending on his morals, plus he's got bombs on that belt of his.

Good to know. Thanks.
#22 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

damian. easy.

#23 Posted by Pwok21 (2111 posts) - - Show Bio

Damien would win this, I mean Kate is no pushover but he has the training and skill advantage along with home terrain.

Trick Arrows can only do so much.

#24 Posted by k4tzm4n (35208 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: Do you have scans of Damian vs Zsasz?

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#25 Posted by Saren (24321 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Yup. First one's from Streets of Gotham:

Second one's from Batman and Robin:

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#26 Posted by k4tzm4n (35208 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: Sweet, thanks. Although, I must confess I've never been all that impressed with Zsasz to begin with. I recall one decent showing against Wayne and even then I remember Wayne thinking how easy it would be to end it if he was a man without morals, hah.

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#27 Posted by Saren (24321 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Yeah, but has Kate ever fought any non-fodder opponents? She wasn't exactly a character that grabbed my attention so I don't really recall her feats from any of the YA books. Zsasz is maybe a tier or two above fodder. Any member of the Batclan could kick his ass, of course.

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#28 Posted by TDK_1997 (13684 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian has some decent showings.

#29 Edited by k4tzm4n (35208 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: No idea, man. I wasn't adding those remarks to downplay the feat or anything, just sharing my own thoughts on the character as a whole.

I just spent a lot of time trying to think of a decent match for Damian last night (tough when the bar is set at "Tim Drake" lol) and I reached the conclusion that another young hero might be the best idea to make things interesting.

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#30 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@k4tzm4n: Yeah, but has Kate ever fought any non-fodder opponents? She wasn't exactly a character that grabbed my attention so I don't really recall her feats from any of the YA books. Zsasz is maybe a tier or two above fodder. Any member of the Batclan could kick his ass, of course.

Her beating Iron Man is almost the only real feat I have for her. I like Kate but she's pretty unimpressive.
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#31 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian Wayne takes this one, he's crayjee