http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/revolver-ocelot-vs-punisher/617881/?page=1
The original thread. This one is different though so s'all good.
Scenario 1: Shootout, 45. Colt for Franky and standard revolver for Ocelot.
Scenario 2: h2h combat with no gear
@nickzambuto: Punisher Durability and Superhuman Stats exceed Ocelot by ALOT.
Tanks a 100 toner hit from Molly.
Unarmed takes out a fully Geared SHIELD hit team.
Durability again that exceed Ocelot.
Punisher has even been hit from the street to the top of a Multi stroy Building by Spider Man. A Clear Superhuman feat of Durability.
Punisher has beaten Bulls Eye in CC twice. Matches DD. Put Moon knight in his place. Outclass a young Spider Man in their first Encounters with H2H.
Fact is Punisher has beaten many Superhuman foes in H2H multiple times. There is no real debate between the 2 H2H.
Punisher Durability and Superhuman Stats exceed Ocelot by ALOT.
Mmm, nope.
Punisher barely surviving a hit from Molly is a good showing, but nothing Solid and Naked Snake couldn't replicate with half the trouble. Ocelot being dead equals to the both of them, if not exceedingly more intelligent and cunning, the same applies.
More directly, Ocelot's own feats of durability and pain tolerance should be more than enough to match the former Marine.
5:40
Rather than bleed out after getting his hand sliced clean off, which would only take minutes, Ocelot opted to tank several pounds of C4 blowing up in his face hard enough to rocket him back into the wall, then gets up and is just like "meh".
Perhaps Frank can take more hits, but Ocelot can dodge more, which is infinitely more useful.
0:33:40
Solid Snake is a world class marksman, killing Sniper Wolf in a sniper duel (greatest sniper on the planet with literal-superhuman aim), defeating Olga Gurlukovich with only a Suppressor Pistol (effortlessly deflects a barrage of bullets from dozens of soldiers at once), and putting one in Vamp's head (Spider-Man level speed and above)
However, Ocelot can have a drawn out gun duel with him, easily avoiding all his shots and showcasing superhuman reaction time (cutscene shows this directly if you watch it through)
Has Punisher ever dodges bullets from one of the greatest marksman in all of fiction? Hell, has Punisher ever dodges bullets, period?
Ocelot's speed edge over Frank is vast, combat speed included.
Impressive from the outset, but what so few fail to realize is - this fight is actually slowed down.
Naked Snake has fought on even ground with hypersonic fighters, yet Ocelot matches him move for move. EVA claims that the plane is too heavy (thanks to Ocelot damaging the engine) and is visibly struggling to keep them in the air as soon as the fight starts. We see the plane declining, they have mere moments before the inevitable crash, but in that time Snake and Ocelot have an entire fight scene trading dozens of blows.
The fight ends in a stalemate - good on Ocelot when Big Boss is considered the greatest soldier to ever live. The guy learned CQC in a day just by watching Snake and the Boss do it. He had an entire life time to learn new styles, it's evident he could of done so effortlessly, but never bothered since CQC was the best there is.
Punisher banged up some SHIELD Ops, but that's hardly something much in light of Big Boss.
9:25
As for Daredevil, he's shown he can dispatch Punisher pretty easily when he's not clouded by pity for the guy.
Likewise, classic Spider-Man was a f*cking nerd plain and simple. Tagging him isn't really impressive. More recent fights beteen the two haven't boded well for the vigilante.
Moon Knight I can give you, but that's not enough to put Punisher over Ocelot.
In terms of striking power, I think Ocelot is superior. Denting steel with his bare fist and jumping 40 friggin feet straight up in the air - Solid Snake had superhuman strength yet failed to overpower Ocelot.
In short, Punisher can take more, but Ocelot can dish more out, not only through striking strength but also skill. Maybe when Punisher masters a martial art style to the point of matching it's creator just by watching people do it I'll give him props, but until then, Shalashaska wins.
@nickzambuto said:
Punisher Durability and Superhuman Stats exceed Ocelot by ALOT.Mmm, nope.
Punisher barely surviving a hit from Molly is a good showing, but nothing Solid and Naked Snake couldn't replicate with half the trouble. Ocelot being dead equals to the both of them, if not exceedingly more intelligent and cunning, the same applies.
More directly, Ocelot's own feats of durability and pain tolerance should be more than enough to match the former Marine.
5:40
Rather than bleed out after getting his hand sliced clean off, which would only take minutes, Ocelot opted to tank several pounds of C4 blowing up in his face hard enough to rocket him back into the wall, then gets up and is just like "meh".
Perhaps Frank can take more hits, but Ocelot can dodge more, which is infinitely more useful.
0:33:40
Solid Snake is a world class marksman, killing Sniper Wolf in a sniper duel (greatest sniper on the planet with literal-superhuman aim), defeating Olga Gurlukovich with only a Suppressor Pistol (effortlessly deflects a barrage of bullets from dozens of soldiers at once), and putting one in Vamp's head (Spider-Man level speed and above)
However, Ocelot can have a drawn out gun duel with him, easily avoiding all his shots and showcasing superhuman reaction time (cutscene shows this directly if you watch it through)
Has Punisher ever dodges bullets from one of the greatest marksman in all of fiction? Hell, has Punisher ever dodges bullets, period?
Ocelot's speed edge over Frank is vast, combat speed included.
Impressive from the outset, but what so few fail to realize is - this fight is actually slowed down.
Naked Snake has fought on even ground with hypersonic fighters, yet Ocelot matches him move for move. EVA claims that the plane is too heavy (thanks to Ocelot damaging the engine) and is visibly struggling to keep them in the air as soon as the fight starts. We see the plane declining, they have mere moments before the inevitable crash, but in that time Snake and Ocelot have an entire fight scene trading dozens of blows.
The fight ends in a stalemate - good on Ocelot when Big Boss is considered the greatest soldier to ever live. The guy learned CQC in a day just by watching Snake and the Boss do it. He had an entire life time to learn new styles, it's evident he could of done so effortlessly, but never bothered since CQC was the best there is.
Punisher banged up some SHIELD Ops, but that's hardly something much in light of Big Boss.
9:25
As for Daredevil, he's shown he can dispatch Punisher pretty easily when he's not clouded by pity for the guy.
Likewise, classic Spider-Man was a f*cking nerd plain and simple. Tagging him isn't really impressive. More recent fights beteen the two haven't boded well for the vigilante.
Moon Knight I can give you, but that's not enough to put Punisher over Ocelot.
In terms of striking power, I think Ocelot is superior. Denting steel with his bare fist and jumping 40 friggin feet straight up in the air - Solid Snake had superhuman strength yet failed to overpower Ocelot.
In short, Punisher can take more, but Ocelot can dish more out, not only through striking strength but also skill. Maybe when Punisher masters a martial art style to the point of matching it's creator just by watching people do it I'll give him props, but until then, Shalashaska wins.
I read your post twice and honestly failed to see anything in there that eclipse Punisher Durability Feats (Bleeding hand? Really? I can survive that with a Tounaquit) and skill vs Super Humans like Spider Man, Dare Devil (who I know beaten 3 times), Bulls Eye, Wolverine, Tank Sentry and Molly's attacks, as well shown mutiple styles of Martial Arts that are stated in his comics.
There is no real debate here for H2H.
@jashro44:
Alright you entice me enough to bust out the scans I have collected.
Punisher Skirmish with Black Widow.
Punisher vs DD. A solid Match.
Punisher vs bulls Eye. A Solid Win in H2H.
Punisher owns BE again!
A NON ENNIS fight of Punisher vs Wolverine. He more than holds his own without Ennis writing. (Suk it Wolvie fans!)
Punisher has a solid showing vs Night Crawler and Spider Man.
Punisher has another Solid Match vs DD again!
That is jall Hand to hand.
Punisher on a whole has defeated Foes many times his stats.
Punisher vs Spidey, Wolverine, and Dare Devil. He wins.
Punisher vs Ulik the Troll. a Thor villain.
Punisher with Prep is more than capable of Escaping the Sentry while Tanking the Manhandling.
You say Ocelot one small showing of H2H is Quality > to Punishers mere Quantity? Most of Punisher H2H is Quality!
Punisher will WRECK Ocelot in H2H and even more than likely Wreck Liquid Ocelot.
Im done after this. There is NO SOLID proof that Ocelot should win H2H at all.
Punisher has Quality and Quantity.
@CadenceV2: I'm gonna be honest and say I have been thinking about this fight a bit more and I am starting to think punisher wins due to pain tolerance.
Punisher Skirmish with Black Widow.
Black widow isn't as skilled as big boss and despite having enhanced physicals she isn't as strong or fast as him. Fighting black widow doesn't impress me as much as stale mating big boss
Punisher vs DD. A solid Match.
Indeed. However as I said daredevil has also beaten an armed punisher easily as well. Now I am not saying this showing is pis I just think it might be a little inconsistent. Punishers pain tolerance, dirty tactics and own formidable degrees of skill can allow him to give daredevil a decent fight but daredevil should win in the end. I am not dismissing the showing I am just taking into account showings like the one from daredevil vs the punisher #2-3.
Punisher vs bulls Eye. A Solid Win in H2H.
Impressive but what makes you believe it compares to fighting someone like big boss who was capable of matching the perfect solider?
A NON ENNIS fight of Punisher vs Wolverine. He more than holds his own without Ennis writing. (Suk it Wolvie fans!)
As I said previously sometimes wolverine fights like a brawler. Its hard to use him as a gauge for skill because sometimes he ignores his skill. When he does use his skill he is one of the best but he only uses it after he realizes his healing factor isn't enough mostly.
Punisher has a solid showing vs Night Crawler and Spider Man.
Spider-man back in his inexperience days was a bit of a chump (as much as I like Peter its true). He had a hard time with the enforcers because he didn't use his agility much. Current spider-man would beat classic pretty easily. He didn't know how to use his speed or agility back than.
Punisher has another Solid Match vs DD again!
That is jall Hand to hand.
Punisher on a whole has defeated Foes many times his stats.
Another impressive fight with daredevil indeed. All though daredevil has the upper hand here. Admittedly punisher wasn't trying to win but daredevil still had a clear advantage.
Punisher vs Spidey, Wolverine, and Dare Devil. He wins.
He hit wolverine with a rocket launcher something he doesn't have here, and he tricked spider-man into stepping onto explosives again something else he doesn't have here. And for the daredevil fight the scans you posted are out of context...Daredevil was winning that fight until Frank tackled him out the window. Admittedly he did stealth punisher and mess his wrist but the point is daredevil was winning...It was clear punisher was out matched.
Punisher vs Ulik the Troll. a Thor villain.
Ulik isn't as skilled as revolver Ocelot. There is a difference between fighting a skilled fighter and a brick like Ulik.
Punisher with Prep is more than capable of Escaping the Sentry while Tanking the Manhandling.
A great pain tolerance feat however sentry was toying with him. Sentry could have ended this if he wanted to.
You say Ocelot one small showing of H2H is Quality > to Punishers mere Quantity? Most of Punisher H2H is Quality!
Eh, after thinking about this yea punisher might be a better hand to hand fighter due to his pain tolerance and likely dirtier tactics (biting off dakens lips, hitting wolverine in the nuts, etc)
Even Cap goes with Punisher Plans and Tactics. Hell the Feat of one hand out stretch holding a man body weight is Strength Feat alone.
I never called punishers strength or tactics into question.
Punisher will WRECK Ocelot in H2H and even more than likely Wreck Liquid Ocelot.
Im done after this. There is NO SOLID proof that Ocelot should win H2H at all.
Punisher has Quality and Quantity.
He wont wreck Ocelot.
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