Reverse Flash vs. Wonder Woman

Round 1:

Random encounter, in-character. Start 25 feet away from each other in Times Square.

Round 2:

48 hours prep-time, in-character. Start 25 feet away from each other in Times Square.

Pre-New 52 versions for both of them.

Wonder Woman. She has defeated Hunter Zolomon while being blind, can enter Speedforce, tag flash and even contend with a bloodlusted Superman. No contest for her.

@lowlaville:

What about Round 2 with prep? Eobard Thawne is a time-travelling genius from the future.

Eobard stomps

Hunter slaughters

@lowlaville: Diana didn't beat Hunter in a way anywhere close to what you're suggesting.

@nuclearrebirth Um...Hunter Zolomon was also travelling through time when Diana beat her. And back then, she was running blind. With prep, Diana can probably get an anti time armor or something from God or something. Either way, I don't see her losing under any circumstance.

@juiceboks So where did I go wrong again?
- Diana defeated Hunter.
- Diana was blind.

^^Facts.

@lowlaville:

I should probably refrain from further comments after this one, lest I be accused of debating my own thread, but I was referring to time-travel as an aspect of prep (going back to the Middle Ages to get an artifact or something) not as a combat tactic.

Its cool @nuclearrebirth. If thats what you are referring to, Flash can just bfr Diana by means of erasing her existence.... which makes this a mismatch in the second round anyway.

@lowlaville: Beating Hunter is a very null feat under the circumstances that she beat him in.

Exactly.Zoom holding back was still moving too fast for an amped Wally so Hunter was clearly holding back highly against Diana

@ultragreenboy@reaverlation

So how exactly does "too fast for an amped Wally" quantify as him "holding back" against Diana? Is there any proof of this statement?

"very null under the circumstances that she beat him in"
Please elaborate this.

Diana was in fact, holding back.

@lowlaville: The proof is that Diana still had a pulse.

@ultragreenboy .....Okay. xD I see how it is. I'm done.

@lowlaville: Because that's how Hunter is?That's exactly how his character is.You're telling me Diana is faster than an amped Wally West?Especially when Diana had trouble with a starro infected Wally who wasn't going all out and Diana had to revolve around anticipating Wally's moves just to get Wally to run into a clothesline?And Diana admitting Wally can basically run circles around her but supposedly is on Zoom's level?Uh...no

@reaverlation

Yes. Diana was holding back in that particular first fight.

@lowlaville: Yes to what?

Do you think Wonder Woman can react to Wally West at his top speeds? While blindfolded?

If you answer yes, then you're insane. If you answered no, then you should realize why Hunter falling into her lasso is the epitome of asinine PIS. Even Power Girl can dodge her lasso throws.

Yes to being on Zoom's level.

@dredeuced Um, Diana has entered Speedforce of her own individual might pre-52. Beating Zoom is but a shadow of this level of speed. Stop lowballing.

[Flagging you because you have offended me by calling me "insane" because of a viewpoint. I'm not changing just because. Learn to stop if you don't have the gut to swallow another's opinion over a matter.]

@lowlaville: Then,in a much nicer way,you're deluded if you think Diana is on Wally's level let alone Zoom

Entering the speed force does not put someone on Hunter Zolomon's speed level, what the heck? Where did you get this info from? The feat you're talking about was when she kept up with Jesse Quick. Jesse Quick is far slower than Wally West. By the by, Wonder Woman can't "enter the speed force of her own individual might." The Speed Force had a crack in it which Lady Savitar and Jesse entered while Wonder Woman was following them.

Wally has entered and let the Speedforce SEVERAL times and he can't even perceive Zoom. As a matter of fact, Zoom was faster than Wally with the combined speed of Jesse Quick, Jay Garrick, Bart Allen AND his own.

I'm not swallowing your opinion because it is insane and has no bearing in any sense of logic or knowledge about the characters. That you think someone who could keep up with Lady Savitar and Jesse Quick is on Zoom's level is preposterous.

Great..she can go lightspeed. Wally can do the same and does so more consistently and he still got stomped by Zoom..how does that mean she is on Zoom's level let alone Wally's?

Fixed the last part =)

she has reacted to wally west before.

Reverse Flash

Yes, but that is not the question, now is it? In the same vein, Superman has reacted to Wally West before. Aquaman has reacted to Wally West before. The question is if they could react to Wally West at his best speeds. For instance, Superman (and Wonder Woman, as well) have also been completely unable to keep up with his movement multiple times, and in extreme situations have been so much slower comparatively that they appeared to be standing still.

@dredeuced And, she tagged them, yeah? Where does that put WW?

As for Zoom, Wonder Woman admittedly said Zoom is not faster than her. Her impaired vision got in the way of defeating Hunter early on. The belief is not preposterous unless you give me a reason to believe so. There is none pertaining to the belief Zolomon was not at his best in that instance.

Diana was musing herself while an infected Flash ran around her. And arguably, she was never serious through the entire ordeal. To memory, I don't know of any other instance where Diana has failed to tag flash. Even at incredible speeds, WW on an altered timeline was still tagging Barry and Bert.

@juiceboks The fact that she beat Hunter? lol. Getting a little out of place with your discussion...

If any of you can show me definite proof to your claim, that'd be appreciated. Otherwise I'm fighting against claims and statements with no weight on them.

o

i don't get it. everyone has reacted to wally before. he and zoom are not all powerful. heck, cheetah almost molested him by herself. deathstroke has beaten wally before.

yes they could. they are some of the fastest beings in the planet. this isn't a race. it's a fight. wonder woman is a trained warrior. it's not like spiderman vs batman where he out classes him so much that it doesn't matter. ww is infinitely stronger than both flash and zoom. there is more to a fight than just speed. wonder woman would beat the crap out of the flash.

@christianrapper: When you know there's context and P.I.S. why do you ignore it ?

-.-

@lowlaville: Zoom is faster through time manipulation not super speed.

Also here http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125833/2856951-595343_1_super.jpg

Okay, you are really, REALLY abusing quotes completely out of context. She says Zoom is not faster than her, but that he controls time. You know how he controls time? He uses it to make himself go faster than everyone else! Diana can postulate about the semantics all she wants but that doesn't make her as effectively faster. It'd be like Superman saying Wonder Woman isn't fast because her power comes from magic. It doesn't really matter where your power comes from, but the effect it has.

"Arguably she was never serious about the whole ordeal." This is not arguable. She straight admitted there was nothing she could do until she found a pattern in his attacks. Another instance where Diana has failed to tag someone would probably be the other time she fought Zoom where neither she nor Superman could do anything to stop him despite the four of them (Batman and Hal Jordan) specifically seeking him out.

I do like how you completely backed off your "She enter the Speed Force of her own power" thing. It was clear you never read that comic, I wonder if you've read any of these other comics you're referencing.

Saying something is a fight, not a race is not an argument. You are literally trying to say that she keeps up with Zoom so speed is obviously the point of contention here. WW isn't infinitely stronger than anything. Flash and zoom hit harder than her so I don't see how strength would even matter when it comes to a FIGHT, where punching is what's important (not how much you can lift). Here, let me use your ridiculous argument style. It's a fight, not a weight lifting competition. Being a trained warrior is not an argument in this scenario. Batman is a better fighter than Diana but it is completely irrelevant because she is so much faster than he is. It's not like any version of the Reverse Flash is going to engage her in a martial display. They're going to pummel her at speeds she can't perceive with ridiculous punches that send people across the globe.

she has beaten them before. it's not going to be different because of this battle. the fastest person doesn't always win in a fight. it's the most skilled. she can feint to manipulate zoom into moving where she wants him. she has her lasso. she can beat zoom in a number of ways.

it's not pis. wonder woman is one of the fastest beings in the planet.

@christianrapper: Deathstroke -.-

@christianrapper: "The fastest person doesn't always win a fight, it's the most skilled."

No, it isn't. Wonder Woman would beat Batman even though he is more skilled. Skill isn't the most important factor in a fight when you're talking about a contest between highly superpowered individuals. She can't feint to manipulate Zoom. They have fought twice. The first time she caught him in her lasso (which is obvious PIS because literally dozens of people slower than Zoom have avoided her Lasso. Cheetah, for instance). The other time they fought Zoom beat the crap out of her, strangled her with her own rope, then left after embarrassing everyone there.

So if you keep repeating "She's beaten him before" then what's the point when Zoom's beaten her before?

Zoom doesn't need to beat her a number of ways. He can literally take away her lasso before she can think to grab it and use it. He's so many magnitudes faster than her that she literally cannot move before he has his pick of whatever way he wants to end the fight.

batman is human. ww is pretty much close to being invulnerable. it's not the same. also, i don't think bats is more skilled than wonder woman. wonder woman has been trained by amazons is proficient with every weapon. anyway, so they both have beaten each other. that proves that she can beat him. so every time zoom loses it's pis. anyone can claim that.

What a great debate going on...

*slowly walks away from thread*

It is exactly the same. You could take away Wonder Woman's super strength and super durability and she would still crush Batman despite his superior skill. Why? Because the enormous speed advantage would allow her to completely circumvent any form of attack or defense Batman could put up, despite all his skill.

Batman is clearly more skilled than Wonder Woman. This is not contestable. Wonder Woman trained with Amazons, Batman trained with basically every master martial artist in the known world and is a master in nearly every style of earth based combat.

Zoom being caught by Wonder Woman's lasso IS PIS. There's no other excuse for it. Otherwise, why couldn't she just toss her Lasso on him the next time they met? She wasn't even blind then! Why couldn't she toss her lasso on Power Girl, who just used superspeed to avoid it? Why can't she just toss her lasso on Cheetah everytime they fight, despite Cheetah being slower than Flash or Zoom?

Lots of people have lost fights they shouldn't have lost and it does not prove they can beat them. If I made a Spider-man vs Firelord thread would you go in and say "Spider-man could win because he's done so before" ? If I made a Flash vs Deathstroke thread would you say "Deathstroke could win because he's done so before" ? If I made a Molecule Man vs Sentry thread would you say "Sentry could win because he's done so before" ? How about Red Hulk and Thor?

Of course not. These people are way out of their leagues in these fight if you apply even the slightest bit of critical thought to the scenarios. Sometimes writers flub things to make them work. They wanted a Flash and Wonder Woman crossover so, Flash and Wonder Woman fight each others villains. Flash had to job to Cheetah (who got a powerup just to make it plausible) before one shotting her later in the comic -- something he could've done at any time. Zoom jobs to Wonder Woman despite dominating most of the fight because the good guys had to win by the end of the comic to wrap things up. You can't just have Cheetah and Zoom kill Flash and Wonder Woman and woops, now their comic runs are discontinued cuz the bad guys won! Darn!

i was thinking the same thing

see, it was all fun and games until you had to bring spiderman into it. that is a legitimate feat. i don't care what anyone says.

@christianrapper: It is not a legitimate feat. Spiderman does not have the striking power to fight someone who can tank planet level attacks.

Beating Zoom doesn't amount for much considering how often speedsters turn into jobbers in fiction. On paper she should never tag him (though to be fair, on paper he shouldn't be able to beat her down with superman+ punches, but he does).

i can say the same thing about ww and zoom. it would be pretty boring for ww to just lasso zoom up every time they met. we can go at this forever. zoom has beaten her and she has beaten him. the only thing we agree on is that spiderman can beat the crap out of firelord.

i was joking. nah...no i wasn't that was a legitimate feat. i will stay in denial about that one. spiderman can beat firelord

Wait, why is that last part true? You don't think Superman hits hard enough to eventually KO Wonder Woman after repeated blows?

We do not agree on that last part and the first part is, again, not true. You can't say that a blind Wonder Woman was jobbing to Zoom. She should, by any and all logic, not be able to move fast enough to tag him if he's putting in even nominal effort given the displays of reaction time and speed he's shown before. This guy can one-handedly stop a barrage of Wally West bloodlusted punches. When a mind controlled Wally did as much to WW she got knocked around the JLA base for half an issue before she came up with a solution (and there's an obvious difference between that mind controlled version and Flash when he fought Zoom).

Wonder Woman bodies Reverse-Flash.

Lol. Stop deluding yourself. I answered you on that one.

"And, she tagged them, yeah? Where does that put WW?" ^^With this. Wonder Woman lasso'd one of them mid flight. Even if par chance the act of breaking into Speedforce was more creditable to someone else, your effect of showing Diana down is nulled by that fact alone, is it not? Because clearly while the other two parties strained, Diana did not show any such signs.