@ShootingNova: The fact that he was able to do anything to Lord Vitiate is in itself a major feat; he was a complete monster in the force, who was able to beat sith lords and jedi simply by crushing their wills mentally and making them his pawns. This is the guy who was killing sith lords from the age of around 14, and then absorbed the power of many of them later on. When Revan and Malik first encountered him is an example of this, despite both of them being noted as skilled members of the order (Revan even being noted even then as a sort of war hero after his victory over Mandalore the Ultimate). I have read the latest novel.
I do not believe Revan is the be-all and end-all of Star Wars as some do, but I do recognise him as one of the strongest jedi/sith. He was regarded as the strongest jedi of his time, and as well as that had mastery over the dark side as well. Therefore I say Revan wins due to greater mastery of the force.
Anakin I will say is the better swordsman (not by a huge margin though), but what are his feats? Beating Dooku? I just don't see him winning against Revan, unless you can show me better feats.
What? Look, Vitiate is no monster AT ALL. Sidious or Luke would absolutely trash him, what has he done that makes him a monster? Revan got burned badly against Vitiate anyways.
Vitiate was killing random, unprepared and featless Sith Lords. Revan and Malak were corrupted because they were already falling to the Dark Side prior to that due to the Mandalorian Wars. Sith Emperor failed to crush Revan's will a second time, Hero of Tython broke free and was later immune to mind control, and slew Vitiate's voice, mortally wounding him as well.
He absorbed the power of them by manipulating them into thinking the were unlocking some massive DS power, and used a RITUAL that took several days and required those 200 Sith Lords to drain the planet. Sidious and Nihilus have done better.
Anakin is a better swordsman by a huge margin, as Silver has already pointed out, and I would like to see Revan beat Cin Drallig when the latter has mastered six of the seven lightsaber forms and knows much about the seventh.
He is NOT the most powerful Jedi/Sith, nor ONE of them. Satele, Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Luke, Sidious, Plaguies, Bane, Zannah, Exar Kun, Kyp Durron, Kyle Katarn, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Darth Caedus, Jaina Solo etc. are stronger than him IMHO.
Not true. He was hurling down meteors mid-battle while they orbited a shielded asteroid facility.
I would have thought that in games, except for cutscenes and things, those feats would be non-canon.
Except for when the powers they use are chosen by the player or the path they choose, powers exhibited - even in-game - are canon. It's just how those powers work, how much damage they inflict, etc. that is up for debate - and given the size of them, I would guess they would kill some people.
Not true. He was hurling down meteors mid-battle while they orbited a shielded asteroid facility.
I would have thought that in games, except for cutscenes and things, those feats would be non-canon.
Except for when the powers they use are chosen by the player or the path they choose, powers exhibited - even in-game - are canon. It's just how those powers work, how much damage they inflict, etc. that is up for debate - and given the size of them, I would guess they would kill some people.
Jedi Consular can throw rocks about that size with one of their their starting powers lool.
Still, Revan lost in the fight, but that's not bad, considering he was up against:
The Emperor's Wrath
A Dark Councillor
A Grand Champion of the Great Hunt
One of the best, if not the best, Cipher Agents
But most of them haven't gotten that title or reputation yet, still, Anakin defeats Revan.
Not true. He was hurling down meteors mid-battle while they orbited a shielded asteroid facility.
I would have thought that in games, except for cutscenes and things, those feats would be non-canon.
Except for when the powers they use are chosen by the player or the path they choose, powers exhibited - even in-game - are canon. It's just how those powers work, how much damage they inflict, etc. that is up for debate - and given the size of them, I would guess they would kill some people.
Jedi Consular can throw rocks about that size with one of their their starting powers lool.
Still, Revan lost in the fight, but that's not bad, considering he was up against:
The Emperor's Wrath
A Dark Councillor
A Grand Champion of the Great Hunt
One of the best, if not the best, Cipher Agents
But most of them haven't gotten that title or reputation yet, still, Anakin defeats Revan.
I heard Revan survived that, or it was theorized that he did. I read only the wiki and apparently it said that before the final strike was delivered he disappeared using "Fold Space" or am I thinking of a different battle? All I know is Revan is still alive
Not true. He was hurling down meteors mid-battle while they orbited a shielded asteroid facility.
I would have thought that in games, except for cutscenes and things, those feats would be non-canon.
Except for when the powers they use are chosen by the player or the path they choose, powers exhibited - even in-game - are canon. It's just how those powers work, how much damage they inflict, etc. that is up for debate - and given the size of them, I would guess they would kill some people.
Jedi Consular can throw rocks about that size with one of their their starting powers lool.
Still, Revan lost in the fight, but that's not bad, considering he was up against:
The Emperor's Wrath
A Dark Councillor
A Grand Champion of the Great Hunt
One of the best, if not the best, Cipher Agents
But most of them haven't gotten that title or reputation yet, still, Anakin defeats Revan.
I heard Revan survived that, or it was theorized that he did. I read only the wiki and apparently it said that before the final strike was delivered he disappeared using "Fold Space" or am I thinking of a different battle? All I know is Revan is still alive
Wiki information isn't to be taken. It has been edited now.
Revan hasn't met the Aing-Tii so I don't see him doing that. He might be alive, he might not.
Following on with that thought, let's take it to its logical conclusion. If potential is so inconsequential, then a solid portion of the laudation Revan has received for his power with the Force is negated, because some of them rely on his innate strength in the Force. Barring that, comparing Anakin to Revan with respects to acclaim only attributed to raw power, Anakin still supersedes him. As much as Revan's power has been celebrated by various sources, Anakin's has been even more, and unlike Revan, Anakin actually evinced the showings to complement the esteem he's afforded.
However you want to compare Revan and Anakin, be it by potential, accolades, or feats, Anakin edges him out. He is better across the board.
@silver2467: I don't care enough to perpetuate a debate. But Revan does have multiple quantifiable feats which I can't be bothered delineating. Besides, I do concur with the premises you stated... I just really dislike Anakin :P
Considering how Anakin's power was never fully realized, Revan would win. However, if Anakin won against Obi-Wan... Revan's a**hole would be the size of Uranus... pun intended.
Not just potential is on Anakin's side. Anakin is much faster, agile, and has better skills with the lightsaber. In the novels and EU, Anakin was beasting and had great skills. In the movie verse, Anakin at the end of RoTS was cutting down regular, well-trained and experienced Jedi like they were mere padawans... god now I feel bad saying that.
@silver2467: I don't care enough to perpetuate a debate. But Revan does have multiple quantfiable feats which I can't be bothered delineating. Besides, I do concur with the premises you stated... I just really dislike Anakin :P
Considering how Anakin's power was never fully realized
There have been a few cases where Anakin has extracted the unhinged potency of his inherent potential, moments which could be interpreted as him "fully realizing his power." A good example would be the RotS novelization's description of Anakin during his duel with Dooku.. That besides, what Anakin has been shown to accomplish without achieving his potential power is extraordinary. Telekinetically manipulating sizable ships, releasing a Scream that leveled a thirty meter tall dome facility, moving Conqueror-class dreadnaughts, killing a clone of Dooku, stomping Ventress with the Force, moving fast enough to appear to be in several places at once, fighting through small armies of droids, etc. His accomplishments are very impressive, the zenith of his potential or not.
In most of them, anyway. Anakin's lack of control can sometimes obstruct his powers. There are occasions where he struggles to summon the Force to achieve something he otherwise could handle with ease, and some sources have clarified for us that the reason for this inconsistency is because of his fluctuating mental and emotional composure.
@silver2467: A question, are you planning to do a Anakin respect thread? Just curious is all, cause some of the feats you mention are pretty nice and wouldn't mind seeing more!
@wolfrazer: I would like to create a comprehensive respect thread for Anakin/Vader. The reason I haven't, and probably won't in the near future, is twofold: first, lack of time (which is the reason I have failed to create many of the respect threads and other blog essays I have been planning for a couple years now); two, Anakin/Vader is a very prominent and marketable character and is constantly appearing in new material, which means I will have to update my respect thread often, which is a chore to do (it's what I had to do with my Palpatine, Yoda, and Luke respect threads as well, and none of those are even complete and, due to site errors eliminating the scans in them, will have to be remade).
If you want to see the showings I was referring to, here they are:
Manipulating an immense escape pod. (Pay attention to the size of the escape pod as compared to Durge, who himself is something like seven or eight feet tall at least, by a rough estimate.) Scans are in reverse order due to site glitches.
Gallery
Unloosing a Force Scream that demolishes the archive hall of the LiMerge containment facility, the hall itself being thirty meters tall and ninety meters wide. (This is a correction on my part. I said that the facility itself was thirty meters tall and ninety meters wide, when it was actually the dome he and Obi-Wan fought droids in. My mistake.)
In the ruined archive hall of LiMerge Power's plasma facility, Count Dooku waited for Kenobi and Skywalker to arrive. The room was enormous by any standard, thirty meters high and three times that in circumference.
More droids appeared. To Dooku, this was nothing more than a game, Obi-Wan told himself. But if it was a demonstration of Force ability Dooku wanted, then Anakin was still more than willing to provide it.
"Dooku!" he howled.
With such force and wrath that the ceiling of the vast hall began to collapse.
Dragging himself out from under plasteel girders and chunks of ferrocrete, Count Dooku came shakily to his feet and gazed in astonished disbelief at the shambles of the control room. Had the containment dome been so weak that it had succumbed to flurries of ricocheting blaster bolts, or had Skywalker's voiced rage actually called the ceiling down? Had Dooku not leapt forcefully at the last moment, he might have been buried, as the two Jedi were, somewhere below, in the expanse of rubble that covered the archive room. He was certain that they had survived. But if nothing else they were trapped, which had been the intent from the start.
But Skywalker... Assuming that he had grown powerful enough to have collapsed the dome, the end result was simply further evidence that he would someday undo himself. Wasn't it? Because admitting to any alternative explanation meant accepting that Skywalker was potentially a greater threat to the Sith than anyone realized.
--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil
Moving a Conqueror-class dreadnaught. (Notice the scale of the dreadnaught when compared to Obi-Wan's starfighter, which slides across the surface platform of one.) This was Padawan Anakin, by the way, and again, scans are in reverse order.
Gallery
Dooku recalls that Anakin killed a clone of the Count.
Even Darth Sidious, with a gleam in his eye, mentioned the boy as one strong in the Force. "Just a little piece in a great game," his Master had said; but a stab of jealousy had gone through Dooku when Sidious lingered over the name. Skywalker, yes... The Force is strong in him.
The same Anakin Skywalker who, he had learned, had recently killed a clone of Count Dooku of Serenno. Poor foolish clone. Another changeling, another Dooku abandoned by his parents, left to be chopped up by some upstart Jedi butcher in the name of a corrupt Republic.
Dooku rather thought that if he weren't so old and wise, he would probably hate this Anakin Skywalker. At least a little.
--Taken from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
He stomps Ventress with the Force. Scan order... You know the drill.
Gallery
For Anakin moving so fast he appears to be in several places at once, this is not the full quote, but it should suffice.
Never had Obi-Wan seen such a display of the Force from a Padawan. From the great Jedi Masters, yes. From Qui-Gon, near the end of his life.
But from someone so young? Anakin's power astonished him. He had glimpsed it before, but now he had seen it unfurl, and it staggered him.
He had not had a chance to move, to help. Anakin had been a blur. He had seemed to be everywhere at once. He had destroyed ten attack droids, disarmed his aggressors, and disabled two laser cannons without hesitation, with even a slight smile on his face.
--Taken from Jedi Quest: The School of Fear
Regarding Anakin fighting small armies of droids, this has been shown in a number of places, such as Labyrinth of Evil alongside Obi-Wan and Jedi Trial. It has also occurred in the Republic and Clone Wars Adventures (IIRC) comic series also alongside Obi-Wan. Sorry for lack of visible evidence, but there are a number of sources that have shown this.
#50 Posted by Silver2467 (16468 posts) - 1 year, 5 months ago - Show Bio
Dooku has beaten Mace Windu, beaten General Grievous, beaten Asajj Ventress, beaten Quinlan Vos, beaten Obi-Wan, beaten Tholme, beaten Sora Bulq, etc. Anakin defeated Dooku. He also defeated Dooku's Doppelganger, Ventress, several MagnaGuards, Cin Drallig, etc. Anakin mastered Djem So and learned techniques of Shien, Ataru, and Niman, among others. Anakin is noticeably superior to Revan in combat, and that combined with his greater power grants him the win.
1. Revan didn't deflect Nyriss' lightning. He absorbed it, then returned it with greater force, enough that it effortlessly ripped through her defenses.
2. Anakin never displayed greater power in the Force than Revan. You could make an argument for Post-RotS Vader, but not Anakin.
3. Revan is not a "mediocre" lightsaber duelist. He is heralded as the greatest duelist of his Era and the most powerful Jedi of his time, who mastered everything the Jedi had to teach before moving onto to learning taboo Force abilities (aka Dark Side techniques), to which he became exceptionally adept in a very short amount of time.
4. It's been stated that Revan acquired a holocron and writings pertaining to Tulak Hord's teachings on lightsaber techniques. Tulak Hord being stated and suggested as the greatest saber duelist to have ever lived, all later generations being referred to as "children playing with sticks" in comparison.
If we take Revan's reputation as an extremely prodigious Force practitioner literally, and power-scale his character in an ideal world, then he should beat Anakin.
But feat wise, in a versus match, he's outclassed physically and with a blade.
Revan wins. Anakin has the potential to win, but we all know Anakin never reaches his potential due to his recklessness and impatience. Revan has a more tactical mind, he was able to defeat the Mandalorians and most of the Republic due to his strategy and fighting ability. He pretty much single handedly waged two wars, one he won and the other he was winning before being set up. Not only that, Revan was strong in both the dark and light sides of the force, a redeemed Revan could theoretically use dark and light side abilities. Meanwhile, Anakin allows the dark side to overwhelm him as seen in his duel with Obi wan which caused him to lose- badly.
The problem with Revan is that he is a video game based character. He doesn't have many actual feats that demonstrate his abilities because they are based in game mechanics. If we assumed that he had all of the available abilities in the game then he would easily beat Anakin.
@inphase Agreed, I think most of the Revan Fandom denies the novel with every fiber in their being. If this where back in 2005 on the Star Wars.com forums people where putting Revan right over Palpatine. I remember the debates, and Revan actaully winning them *Facepalm* Most of Revan's infinite powers came from kotor, while back then game mechanics where still N canon, it was really the only thing Revan had.
Don't get me wrong I dislike the book too, but canon is canon. Revan was a pawn of Vitiate and just is what canon says, and that's how it goes. It steams Me too, but it's not as worse as the invention of the Midichlorians or....*Sigh* Jar Jar Binks....
Not sure why people are arguing for Revan though. Just how?
You are fogetting one think raecinio.Anakin is the chosen one.Revan is definitly strong and could fight him but he wouldnt beat him.He has enough experience for dueling with him.I once made a thread of his possible powers and I stated that he was probably user of Ataru and Djem so.This would put very aggresive fight between these two.I think most fitting scenario is Obiwan vs Anakin on Mustafar except it would be wilder.Both dont know what they can expect but Anakin is better duelist.On the other hand trainer practically as Jedi Guardian I think Revan has better force knowledge.Anakin probably still beats him in the force.
I think he might have little chance killing him when he was blinded by the Dark Side.Few moments before his amputations.
I think more interesting scenario would be in Geonosis hangar where he could replace Dooku.He can use sith lightning probably quite better than Dooku.He definitly beats Anakin and probably even Pre TCW Obi-wan.I am just worrying if Yoda wouldnt kill him before he would put that pillar down.
D*mn, I know Revan fanboys can be annoying, but that's no reason to wank the trilogy characters and low ball Revan. Seriously, I'm willing to jump in the debate if the low-balling keeps up.
God damn, I know Revan fanboys can be annoying, but that's no reason to wank the trilogy characters and low ball Revan. Seriously, I'm willing to jump in the debate if the low-balling keeps up.
Please "jump-in", I would love to see what you can bring to the table.
@heinrich7: I rather enjoyed the novel. But people claiming "That was Revan's best" are utterly incorrect and just seeking to downplay Revan. That wasn't Revan at his best, because most of the time spent in it has been without his full memory, and when he finally did get it back, it was after spending 3yrs in Nyriss' prison being drugged continuously and pried for information.
And during the escape fight with Nyriss when Meetra gave Revan back his mask, he passed out from the shock, but still managed to get up in time to save everyone and stomp Nyriss. And then the very next day went off to face Vitiate since timing was critical. This is a guy who wasn't in top form since the beginning of the book. He did drop some Mandalorians, and this was when Mando's were true bada$$es and not those flaky wannabes in Vader's time.
And then there's Vitiate whom people believe is a pushover. Vitiate was murdering people with the Force when he was 4yrs old. Killed his father when he was 10 and took over the whole planet. If it hadn't been for Sith Lords running in terror from him a millennia earlier, Revan never would've found the connection that led him back to the Sith Empire in the first place.
Vitiate was right up there with Naga Sadow and co back in those days. The only one Vitiate couldn't challenge in those days was Marka Ragnos, because Ragnos is such a boss that even Sadow and Kressh crap their pants when he's in the room.
People assumed that the Book was all there is to Revan and he has nothing better. That was never the case. Drew who wrote and designed Revan had said as much when writing the Novel and had said that he wasn't going to retell the events of the KotoR game because it wasn't necessary to the story he was trying to tell here, nor would it have been necessary to retell the same story we're already familiar with. And the point of the Revan novel wasn't to show how Boss Revan is, but to tie up all the loose ends and lead us into the beginning of the SWTOR Storyline. That was the whole point of it.
Some of us still hope that Drew will come back and do like a Revan Origins novel with how he came to the Jedi Order as a boy and how things were and what he did during the Mandalorian Wars and tie things in with the KotoR comic series, but focusing more on Revan, Alek (Malak) and Bastila's involvement or lackthereof during that time. That would actually settle up a lot of things for people.
@heinrich7: I rather enjoyed the novel. But people claiming "That was Revan's best" are utterly incorrect and just seeking to downplay Revan. That wasn't Revan at his best, because most of the time spent in it has been without his full memory, and when he finally did get it back, it was after spending 3yrs in Nyriss' prison being drugged continuously and pried for information.
And during the escape fight with Nyriss when Meetra gave Revan back his mask, he passed out from the shock, but still managed to get up in time to save everyone and stomp Nyriss. And then the very next day went off to face Vitiate since timing was critical. This is a guy who wasn't in top form since the beginning of the book. He did drop some Mandalorians, and this was when Mando's were true bada$$es and not those flaky wannabes in Vader's time.
And then there's Vitiate whom people believe is a pushover. Vitiate was murdering people with the Force when he was 4yrs old. Killed his father when he was 10 and took over the whole planet. If it hadn't been for Sith Lords running in terror from him a millennia earlier, Revan never would've found the connection that led him back to the Sith Empire in the first place.
Vitiate was right up there with Naga Sadow and co back in those days. The only one Vitiate couldn't challenge in those days was Marka Ragnos, because Ragnos is such a boss that even Sadow and Kressh crap their pants when he's in the room.
People assumed that the Book was all there is to Revan and he has nothing better. That was never the case. Drew who wrote and designed Revan had said as much when writing the Novel and had said that he wasn't going to retell the events of the KotoR game because it wasn't necessary to the story he was trying to tell here, nor would it have been necessary to retell the same story we're already familiar with. And the point of the Revan novel wasn't to show how Boss Revan is, but to tie up all the loose ends and lead us into the beginning of the SWTOR Storyline. That was the whole point of it.
Some of us still hope that Drew will come back and do like a Revan Origins novel with how he came to the Jedi Order as a boy and how things were and what he did during the Mandalorian Wars and tie things in with the KotoR comic series, but focusing more on Revan, Alek (Malak) and Bastila's involvement or lackthereof during that time. That would actually settle up a lot of things for people.
I can somewhat agree. I've heard Rumors that Disney is looking at KOTOR, maybe they will do something for Revan. And Drew might comeback and flesh out the character more.
I'm riding on them for uncanonizing TOR though(Hoping), but I hope they keep most of the Old Republic Era the same. From the way things look now most of the ABY era is getting scrapped(And surprisingly a lot of fans agree) from the statements I've read. Disney isn't going to want to pay a crap load of royalties to hundreds of authors and creators of characters. Then again they might just pull a Gene Roddenberry and declare the EU uncanon entirely. It's a highly probable scenario given their *original stories*
I like Revan and I think He is a cool and mysterious character, but as things stand now Revan just can't beat Anakin.
@heinrich7: But that will always be the subject of debate. Anakin has better TK feats. Revan has better Force Powers and Knowledge. Anakin has more Written saber fights to draw on. Revan has a history of being undefeated in melee combat. Anakin was a good tactician against droid armies and the occasional commander. Revan was a brilliant tactician against the Mandalorians and against the Jedi.
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