Random encounter, morals off and no special equipment like Orbalisk armor. Who wins?
Edit: I am actually confused about Bane. I am thinking about changing him for Satele Shan.
Revan, Malgus and Bane vs Maul, Savage and Ventress
whats the location? ( not that it would necessary matter just curious )
@killerwasp: Eh. Korriban Valley of the Sith?
Mhh okay, i'd prolly go with team 2 for sabers, but team 1 with force. I feel that Maul could hold off anyone on team 1, but i feel savage ( without force rage ) would lose to anyone of them ( besides prolly bane ) on team 1, ventress wouldn't necessary be a game changer either i feel i think i could go with team 1 for a majority ( like 5.5 ). I think maul would get one or two kills after his fellow team dies, but i don't think he'd win over the last one ( from any of the three regardless ). This could change though depending on whom he is facing along with his team. I just feel that team 1 wins.
@killerwasp: Thank you for opinion :).
@killerwasp: I'm curious as to why you'd say savage would have least trouble with bane? I'd say all round he should be more of a threat than revan, and shouldn't be much below malgus skill wise. I agree savage is the weak link though. Not disagreeing with you, just wondering.
Team 2.
Hmmmmmmmm, I assume we are using redeemed Revan not Darth?
Revan is probably the best overall Force User here thanks to morals off which means free range on drain, but team 2 has far better duelist.... hmmmmm best fighter on team 1 is probably Malgus, but I wouldn't give Malgus high odds against Maul (Redacted this statement in my edit. I undersold Malgus by a large amount.)... That said Revan's force slow would be useful here as everyone on team 2 strikes me as far faster.
Assuming Malgus and Bane could hold team 1 off long enough for Revan to do something with the Force, they could win, but I would favor team 2 for roughly 7/10 simply because I see Maul and Ventress being able to overwhelm Malgus and Bane and kill Revan who is fairly featless as far as saber combat goes as Maul has superior TK feats in his name, a fair resistance to lightning and far superior physical abilities.
Best way I see team 1 winning is for Malgus and Bane to play tanks while Revan spams drain.
EDIT: Actually, thinking over it, I probably undersold Malgus a bit as I would only give Maul a 5.5-6/10 edge over Malgus as Malgus has better showings in using the force mid combat and he is rather durable which would tie in nicely with Revan who would have to play hide behind the larger Sith.
Without armor, I don't see Bane beating Maul or Ventress. Hmm
I move my thing to 6/10 favor for team 2.
@keithson: Well what puts him at an even with bane is simply this...
Loading Video...
No defense against this XD
@killerwasp: Neither Maul nor Savage can make claims at being the best of anything. Bane in his mid 20's fought with Kas'im, who is noted as and may very well have been one of the greatest Saber Duelists in the SWU. He mastered all seven forms and spent four decades perfecting them. Bane did well until Kas'im split his weapon from a dual-blade to dual-wielding single lightsabers, which threw Bane off.
Ultimately Bane still won by crushing Kas'im to death under a mountain of rubble by shattering the whole forward section of the Rakatan Temple of Lehon. That was before learning from Revan's holocron and later Darth Andedu's and Belia Darzu's. Bane and Revan both have more experience than Team 2 combined, and far, far greater knowledge of the Force and greater Force abilities. Maul, Savage and Ventress' abilities are all pretty generic.
Neither Maul nor Savage can make claims at being the best of anything. Bane in his mid 20's fought with Kas'im, who is noted as and may very well have been one of the greatest Saber Duelists in the SWU. He mastered all seven forms and spent four decades perfecting them. Bane did well until Kas'im split his weapon from a dual-blade to dual-wielding single lightsabers, which threw Bane off.
Maul has been credited as being one of the most skilled Sith Lords to ever exist (three separate times actually). Darth Bane can't say the same----also, that bit with Kas'im being one of the most skilled duelist in the galaxy? That was only Darth Bane's ignorant and subjective opinion. I can easily bring up Darth Caedus saying Kyle Katarn would is a threat to him, and he then proceeded to wreck him and 3 other Jedi while injured. Statements are just that, statements when they aren't any showings that back them up.
Mastering 7 lightsaber forms? So what? Sora Bulq was also a master at several lightsaber forms and he would lose handily to Darth Maul.
@reikai: i dont recall ever saying team 2 would beat team 1 in force powers? Did you read my post i gave team 1 the win? Anyway bane is not that skilled with a saber, he is noted for force powers and what dccomics said, basically I feel team 2 would win the saber rounds, and i feel team one could win the force power rounds. However with all sabers and force powers in one round i feel team 1 could win more than team 2 could. However im sure people like dccomics, shooting,ILS, jedixman, etc. could say im completely wrong. Either way make sure u know whom im said would already win before saying this. I mean its good info for all, but still.
Also, team one should take a majority here.
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
Neither Maul nor Savage can make claims at being the best of anything. Bane in his mid 20's fought with Kas'im, who is noted as and may very well have been one of the greatest Saber Duelists in the SWU. He mastered all seven forms and spent four decades perfecting them. Bane did well until Kas'im split his weapon from a dual-blade to dual-wielding single lightsabers, which threw Bane off.
Maul has been credited as being one of the most skilled Sith Lords to ever exist (three separate times actually). Darth Bane can't say the same----also, that bit with Kas'im being one of the most skilled duelist in the galaxy? That was only Darth Bane's ignorant and subjective opinion. I can easily bring up Darth Caedus saying Kyle Katarn would is a threat to him, and he then proceeded to wreck him and 3 other Jedi while injured. Statements are just that, statements when they aren't any showings that back them up.
Mastering 7 lightsaber forms? So what? Sora Bulq was also a master at several lightsaber forms and he would lose handily to Darth Maul.
Also Bane was amped when he brought down that Temple as the planet he was on had an affinity for the Dark Side.
@laflux said:
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
Neither Maul nor Savage can make claims at being the best of anything. Bane in his mid 20's fought with Kas'im, who is noted as and may very well have been one of the greatest Saber Duelists in the SWU. He mastered all seven forms and spent four decades perfecting them. Bane did well until Kas'im split his weapon from a dual-blade to dual-wielding single lightsabers, which threw Bane off.
Maul has been credited as being one of the most skilled Sith Lords to ever exist (three separate times actually). Darth Bane can't say the same----also, that bit with Kas'im being one of the most skilled duelist in the galaxy? That was only Darth Bane's ignorant and subjective opinion. I can easily bring up Darth Caedus saying Kyle Katarn would is a threat to him, and he then proceeded to wreck him and 3 other Jedi while injured. Statements are just that, statements when they aren't any showings that back them up.
Mastering 7 lightsaber forms? So what? Sora Bulq was also a master at several lightsaber forms and he would lose handily to Darth Maul.
Also Bane was amped when he brought down that Temple as the planet he was on had an affinity for the Dark Side.
True.
@laflux: And Kas'im, being Sith and drawing on the Dark Side himself, wouldn't be amped in the same manner as Bane? Yes apparently people forget that Everyone with a Dark Side alignment benefits from a Dark Side aligned Area/World. Believing otherwise is just beyond absurd.
@dccomicsrule2011: And you seem to just hate everything that Drew Karpyshyn has ever done. How is it that what Bane says is ignorant garbage, but anything said by any Non-DK made character is like gem-encrusted gold poo?
I actually like Maul, but nothing I've seen from him would put him on the same level as Bane. Frankly Maul was the only decent thing to come out of the PT movies and, despite some grievances, made TCW that much more enjoyable. At least until they shafted him again and made him Sid's Jailhouse bride.
But before I go off on a tangent, in fact, end it right there. Team2 can't win anyway. Instead just gonna ask;
When're you going to Respond to our CAV?
1) Not really. I fairly enjoyed the Darth Bane Trilogy and Darth Zannah is/was one of my favorite characters in the Star Was canonn.
2) I call it ignorant, because there is no way for Bane to know exactly who the most skilled duelist in the Star Wars galaxy was. To my recollation, he had never witnessed the most skilled Jedi of the time period even due battle---ergo, he couldn't possibly judge that without speaking out of ignorance. It's not a Darth Bane thing, as I've said the same thing in regards to Obi-Wan's statement on Kit being one of the most skilled Jedi in history (again, Obi-Wan hasn't even seen tthe likes of Revan, Ulic,etc pick up a blade).
@dccomicsrule2011: Alright, that I can partly agree with. But Bane wasn't referring to a Jedi, but a fellow Sith to whom he learned from, along with the others in Kaan's Brotherhood, along with fighting and testing against the others there whom were referred as the 'Elite' of the Sith there, the ones with more smarts and ability than the ones trained elsewhere as cannon fodder.
Unlike the majority of those in the Academy, Bane actually studied the history, Lore and knowledge of the Sith that was accumulated within the Libraries of Korriban. So it isn't like he knows nothing. He did study the available histories and knowledge of the Sith, of their masters, skills and whatnot and a number of it he himself wrote off as embellished tales of grandeur. Like when reading of how Naga Sadow ignited a star. He believed a lot of that was just nonsense based on some nugget of truth. Something rectified much later after he acquired those holocrons.
At the time his belief may have been a bit ignorant, but his beliefs didn't change even after engaging Jedi Battlemasters, as well as force-imbued assassins and cultists. In the Bane Trilogy the only one who ever really challenged him in Saber combat was Kas'im. It was admitted that Zannah was good, but Bane was much better than she was. And conversely she was much more skilled in Sith Sorcery than he was.
Also I do like Zannah too. It's unfortunate that just when she was coming into her own, they never let'er have her own book with Darth Cognus. That's one of the bigger tragedies of the EU.
Far as Kas'im, he was the best duelist in the Brotherhood of Darkness by high and far. He knew what he was good at and he stuck with it. He wasn't so good with force techniques so he focused entirely on his combat skills. We know he killed Jedi during the battles, but with Bane he knew the chances of coming back alive from a fight was like flipping a coin with your eyes closed and trying to guess what side comes up.
I give Kas'im points for not being a complete tool and knowing how frivolous and vain some of his compatriots were, and understood there was little he could do about their poor decisions. He did the only thing he knew how to do best; kill people. It's like how I give so many props to Marka Ragnos for being made out in lore to be among the most powerful Sith to have ever existed, and not needing like 50 books to just show you to your face why that is. The vague mystery of what he could do is far more compelling than slapping us in the face with one terrible wank job after another.
Still, I wish they'd give us a proper book about Ragnos. At least something detailing his life. He knew how to keep his $hit in line, and Naga Sadow kissing dirt.
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
Also, team one should take a majority here.
Team 1. I'd give Revan the edge against Maul and Malgus or Bane the edge against Savage. The other could probably beat Ventress, but even if not, Revan and Malgus/Bane would aid them in dealing with her.
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
Sora Bulq was also a master at several lightsaber forms and he would lose handily to Darth Maul.
Sora would probably not lose handily to Maul.
A better example might be Cin Drallig mastering multiple lightsaber forms but being beaten quite easily by an Anakin who was at least somewhat hindered and was Choking Bene at the same time.
@dccomicsrule2011@shootingnova: Do you think that replacing Bane for Satele would make it more balanced?
@penderor: Probably not because Satele would just ragdoll Ventress.
@shootingnova: Arent people a little overpowering the Old Republic champions now?
@shootingnova said:
Team 1. I'd give Revan the edge against Maul and Malgus or Bane the edge against Savage. The other could probably beat Ventress, but even if not, Revan and Malgus/Bane would aid them in dealing with her.
Why would you give Revan the edge against Maul?
And why would you give Bane the edge against Savage?
I agree Malgus could beat Savage for a majority simply due to his lightning, and he could split with or gain a slight majority over Ventress due to physical strength and Force Power/Skill.
I just don't know much about Bane, and I'm still quite sketchy on Revan.
@reikai: Because DCCR only highlighted part of your response, it may have seemed that I was referring to the lightsaber fight. While I believe Bane had a greater affinity for the force than his former Lightsaber Teacher, and was better able to utilize the natural aura of the planet to fight, Force power is of secondary importance to skill unless the gap is very large, and in anycase Ka'sim ended up winning because he was more skilled (he had proficiency in a style Bane was unaware of).
The point I was making was in regards to Bane Collapsing the Temple itself, which wasn't fully under his own power.
@juiceboks: Revan is more powerful than Maul in terms of Force abilities and much more versitile. Also, the skill or speed disparity shouldn't be big at all. I see Revan taking a small majority over Maul.
@juiceboks said:
Yea I'm not seeing why Revan would take a majority over Maul. The only thing he has over him is lightning but I hardly think that's gonna make up for the differences in speed and skill.
And Maul could somewhat repel the lightning on his blade in the worst case scenario.
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
@juiceboks: Revan is more powerful than Maul in terms of Force abilities and much more versitile. Also, the skill or speed disparity shouldn't be big at all. I see Revan taking a small majority over Maul.
Why shouldn't there be a big skill or speed disparity?
Why would it? Revan has defeated multiple Imperial Guards simultaniously, is adroit in all 7 lightsaber forms, defeated Mandalore the ultimate, wrecked several Dark Jedi, defeated Alek, etc,etc. I'm not seeing how that gap is larger than Revan raw Force powers advantage as well as versatility.
Maul would be hard pressed to even get past Revan's sheild if the latter decides to use it, not to mention is far above average precognition would help cancel out Maul's speed advantage. And with morals off, Revan could just drain Maul if he got the space.
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
Why would it? Revan has defeated multiple Imperial Guards simultaniously, is adroit is all 7 lightsaber forms, defeated Mandalore the ultimate, wrecked several Dark Jedi, defeated Alek, etc,etc. I'm not seeing how that gap us larger than Revan Raw Force powers advantage as well as versatility.
Maul would be hard pressed to even get past Revan's sheild if the latter decides to use it, not to mention is far above average precognition would help cancel out Maul's speed advantage. And with morals off, Revan could just drain Maul if he got the space.
Imperial Guards are tantamount to Magnaguards - fodder with hype. They are impressive on paper, but the only reason they are there is to die. When we're talking about some of the top duelists like Maul, that isn't going to cut it.
Is he adroit in all forms or does he just use Niman? Not that it matters anyway because knowledge doesn't translate to practical fighting skill.
Mandalore who's only feat is defeating a featless Malak, who is also non-Force sensitive? Again, not up to scratch.
Wrecking several Dark Jedi isn't really better than Maul fodderising Magnaguards, taking on and killing two Jedi masters simultaneously, gaining the advantage over Jinn/Kenobi and so on.
Defeating an amped Malak is good but again, is he really even scratching Maul?
Let's compare all of that to Maul's accomplishments. While injured and in an unfavorable environment, he stalemated and then rapidly began defeating Qui-Gon Jinn, in a fight where he also threw away an entire strategy in seconds and formulated a new one simply to become less predictable. Jinn being one of the best pure swordsmen the Jedi have ever produced, a better duelist than Revan or anyone he's beaten.
What about contending evenly with Jinn and his fast approaching Padawan Kenobi, while altering the location of the fight to his preference and knocking them off their feet repeatedly with martial strikes - later going on to defeat both of them, even while Kenobi was amped.
Handily stomping Anoon Bondara, one of Pre-TPM Jedi's best duelists, only behind the likes of Jinn and Windu.
Wrecking Savage Opress in seconds.
Contending evenly with an Obi-Wan who was fast approaching his prime.
Being credited with being one of the most highly trained, skilled and lethal Sith duelists in history.
Maul is the better duelist, undoubtedly. Contending with him in a duel is outside of Revan's capabilities.
What do you mean by get by Revan's shield? His Force shield? I'm sure Maul's lightsaber and 75-100+ mph travel speed will do the job just fine.
Has Revan ever shown combative drain, canonically? If not I see no reason to reference it.
Imperial Guards are tantamount to Magnaguards - fodder with hype. They are impressive on paper, but the only reason they are there is to die. When we're talking about some of the top duelists like Maul, that isn't going to cut it.
Not even close.
As far as I'm concerned Imperial Guards have never been fodderized like Magnaguards have. They draw on the power of Emperor Vitiate himself. Even the mightiest Sith Lords has surrendered against them, even members of the Dark Council (the most powerful Darksiders in the galaxy) fear their power.
The Empire's ultimate non-Force sensitive warriors, the Imperial Guard is a selfless army devoted to the Emperor and the Emperor alone. Clad in blood-red armor and wielding deadly weaponry designed to exterminate Force users, the Imperial Guard sweep across the galaxy at the Emperor's command, destroying his enemies both outside and within the Empire. When confronted by the Imperial Guard, the mightiest of Sith have laid down their lightsabers and surrendered to the inevitable death offered by a guardsman's electrostaff. Even members of the Dark Council fear the Imperial Guard, though many would die before confessing such a weakness.
―The Old Republic Encyclopedia
Again, credit to DarthAnt for the quote
Imperial Guards are far above Magnaguards who only has impressive feats in one Clone Wars episode LoE and RoTS. Any other times, they get cut down in droves with minimal effort by any worthwhile Jedi.
Is he adroit in all forms or does he just use Niman? Not that it matters anyway because knowledge doesn't translate to practical fighting skill.
All forms. Per Drew Karpyshyn:
..[Revan] was skilled in all of them [lightsaber forms] - he was always more of a generalist than a specialist...
―Drew Karpyshyn (Author)
Credit to DarthAnt for the quote.
Not that it matters anyway because knowledge doesn't translate to practical fighting skill.
Fair enough.
Mandalore who's only feat is defeating a featless Malak,
. . .Alek wasn't completely featless, where did you get that from? If I recall he was stated to be above your typical Jedi master.
who is also non-Force sensitive? Again, not up to scratch.
Even if he wasn't a Force sensitive, his physical abilities had to be up to par to defeat someone on Alek's level.
Wrecking several Dark Jedi isn't really better than Maul fodderising Magnaguards,
I disagree. I would say his performance against the Dark Jedi supersedes the showing of Magnaguards who normally operate at levels below a newly appointed padawn----who was a young-ling days ago.
taking on and killing two Jedi masters simultaneously,
Revan taking on dozens of Sith soldiers supersedes this in my opinion.
gaining the advantage over Jinn/Kenobi and so on.
I'll concede there, but I never said Revan is more skilled than Maul, just that it would not be a stomp (which it won't)
Defeating an amped Malak is good but again, is he really even scratching Maul?
It would be ridiculous to say defeating an amped Malak would not enable Revan to at least hold his own with Maul in a duel.
Let's compare all of that to Maul's accomplishments. While injured and in an unfavorable environment, he stalemated and then rapidly began defeating Qui-Gon Jinn, in a fight where he also threw away an entire strategy in seconds and formulated a new one simply to become less predictable.
Jinn being one of the best pure swordsmen the Jedi have ever produced, a better duelist than Revan or anyone he's beaten.
Based of what exactly?
What about contending evenly with Jinn and his fast approaching Padawan Kenobi, while altering the location of the fight to his preference and knocking them off their feet repeatedly with martial strikes - later going on to defeat both of them, even while Kenobi was amped.
Handily stomping Anoon Bondara, one of Pre-TPM Jedi's best duelists, only behind the likes of Jinn and Windu.
Wrecking Savage Opress in seconds.
Contending evenly with an Obi-Wan who was fast approaching his prime.
Being credited with being one of the most highly trained, skilled and lethal Sith duelists in history.
Maul is the better duelist, undoubtedly. Contending with him in a duel is outside of Revan's capabilities.
All of this is good and all, but I don't see how Revan would be unable to at least contend with Maul.
All of this is good and all, but I hardly see how Revan can't at least contend with Maul. Defeating an amped Malak, wrecking Imperial Guards (who even the likes of Meetra Surik and Scrooge had major problems against), wrecking dozens of Dark Jedi (when some were quite knowledgeable with the Force) would at-least allow him to present a challenge to Maul.
What do you mean by get by Revan's shield? His Force shield?
Yes.
I'm sure Maul's lightsaber and 75-100+ mph travel speed will do the job just fine.
Sure it would, but it will require major effort on his part. I'm to lazy so I'm just going to quote @shootingnova here:
Absorbing/Deflecting Lightning powerful enough to burn through an amped Darth Nyriss's Force shields and then turn her to ash (Nyriss being one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the Empire at the time) and forming a Barrier that could repel virtually any attack from one of the very best of the Empire's Sith Warriors, Sith Inquisitors, Bounty Hunters and Imperial Agents, despite the fact that Revan was already injured (it was likely a straining feat that Revan would not be able to sustain for long, though, given how he was injured and beaten to begin with).
Has Revan ever shown combative drain, canonically? If not I see no reason to reference it.
Not that I know of, but we do know he knows the ability, I don't see how it is a stretch to say he would use it on a no morals match-up.
1. Imperial Guards are more or less tantamount to Magnaguards. Granted, being designed to such specifications that you can kill a Jedi Knight isn't quite as good as being able to stomp "one of the mightiest Sith", but then Magnaguards aren't featless. One single handedly stalemated Shaak Ti for a prolonged period of time along with other various Jedi, and have caused guys like Kenobi problems before. In a group they caused monumental problems for Ahsoka, and have at least managed to survive roughly 30 seconds in a group against duelists like Anakin Skywalker and Darth Maul. My point being - they aren't named duelists. They're impressive cannon fodder. Their goal is to provide a challange for the protagonist but die anyway. I just don't let showings like this hold as much merit as ones against named characters. My main point being that defeating them isn't a good enough feat to put you on the level of one of the greatest duelists in the mythos.
2. Being better than your average Jedi Master is hardly a feat. It's an accolade in the loosest sense. Come on, now. Malak isn't an impressive duelist just because he was above average. Revan beating someone who's only feat is beating someone better that is above average isn't GOAT material.
3. Maul wouldn't quite stomp Revan, but he would overwhelm him in a very similar manner to how he overwhelmed Jinn - given he is at least 2 or so tiers above him in skill, very noticeably stronger, faster and more durable.
4. Defeating an amped Obi-Wan > defeating an amped Malak. Kenobi is the more skilled duelist out of the two losing parties, even at this point in time. And that's not even Maul's best feat.
5. Based off an objective source. It's in Nova's Jinn respect thread. I can't do much for finding it on my phone I'm afraid.
6. Revan's shield is formidable, I suppose. I just don't get how you can present that feat (in regards to the strike team). He can repel "virtually any attack"? Is there even a canonical description for what attacks were launched? The lightning part is impressive, but Maul with a lightsaber isn't lightning.
7. My only issue with drain is that we have zero knowledge of how he applies it or how good he is with it. I could theorize that it would one shot Maul, or that he'd just brush it off - but those are just theories.
I think Maul and Revan is a decent fight - but Maul should take a majority. He has most of the pertinent edges - all physical areas, lightsaber skill - along with some other useful attributes such as tactical ability and martial versatility. Maul should be powerful and durable enough to power through anything Revan will realistically throw at him, due to his formidable personal power (dragging an eta class shurtle, collapsing a whole tunnel and cliff face simultaneously) and inhuman endurance.
That's just my opinion, anyway. It's the same reason I'd favour someone like Mace Windu against Satele Shan - has most of the pertinent edges, and has the tools to negate the advantages of the opponent.
@i_like_swords said:
Why would you give Revan the edge against Maul?
And why would you give Bane the edge against Savage?
1. Being comparably skilful (and in that sense, I refer to being on a similar tier in skill), and having vastly greater combative Force abilities in nearly every sense of the word (versatility, powerful precognitive and perceptive abilities, defensive powers such as Tutaminis and Barrier, and offensive powers such as Drain, TK and Lightning), and having Battle Precognition to a vast degree. It'd be a good fight, to be sure, because Maul is a physical juggernaut and retains a skill edge, but Revan's extensive range of Force powers can compensate for most of that and negates a number of Maul's advantages (for instance, Maul has nothing to bypass Revan's Barrier).
Revan wouldn't win because he's just better, but Maul is mostly unfortunate to be facing somebody of Revan's type, who has a Force arsenal that can deal with most of what Maul has, and that can do well against Maul due to Maul's own lack of defensive Force abilities.
2. Because of Lightning. Bane's Lightning is at least noticeably superior to Tyranus's, who subdued Savage repeatedly via such a tactic.
Mandalore who's only feat is defeating a featless Malak, who is also non-Force sensitive? Again, not up to scratch.
Alek has no skill feats and only accolades at this time, but he does have a decent level of physical traits and Force ability, and he is better than typical Jedi. Not much of an accolade for Alek, but given that Mandalore effortlessly one-shotted him, Revan defeating Mandalore the Ultimate is a decent showing and certainly within the range of, say, Maul beating Anoon Bondara, who has no showings.
7. My only issue with drain is that we have zero knowledge of how he applies it or how good he is with it. I could theorize that it would one shot Maul, or that he'd just brush it off - but those are just theories.
Revan used Drain once in KotOR when has half-conscious and injured by repeated Force Lightning blasts from Jorak Uln. It seemed more of an instinctive showing than anything else, but we'd have to consider the circumstances, which would have limited his capacity to utilize such powers considerably, and his being considerably far from his prime.
Maul would not "brush off" Drain. Nobody has ever "brushed off" Drain, with the exceptions of immune beings, and Maul is not one such character. Even Abeloth, a tremendously powerful being, was affected by Krayt's Drain. To begin with, Abeloth's raw power is interminably superior to Krayt's, yet she was affected to at least some degree. Revan is both more powerful than Krayt and Maul interminably inferior to Abeloth, as well as Revan being more powerful than Maul in contrast to Abeloth being vastly more powerful than Krayt. Not to mention the fact that Abeloth's bathing in the Pool of Knowledge and drinking from the Font of Power already gives her the power of two of the Ones, which is an apotheosis that already elevates her well above any natural Force sensitive. Maul is very much a regular Force sensitive and was never apotheosized in such a way. There is absolutely no reason for him to "brush off" Drain. At best you could argue that Revan's Drain is a last resort, which it probably would be, or at least, it wouldn't be a prioritized attempt at victory.
What do you mean by get by Revan's shield? His Force shield? I'm sure Maul's lightsaber and 75-100+ mph travel speed will do the job just fine.
If the lightsaber strikes of the Imperial Strike Team failed to have any success against Revan's Barrier, then I see no reason for Maul's weapon to have any more success.
Oh, and the entirety of Revan's fight with Vitiate taking place in only a few seconds is good enough of a speed feat for Revan to at least contend with Maul.
1. No offence, but I think you'd need to be kidding yourself to place Revan at tier 7-8 level in terms of dueling capacity. The simple fact is he has never even faced a threat as formidable as Darth Maul, and lived to tell the tale. Anyone he has overcome ate nigh-featless or just plain uninpressive.
2. I want to hear why Revan is "vastly" more powerful than Maul. I mean sure, directing someone's lightning back at them and disintegrating them is a good power feat, but what telekinetic power, or otherwise, has he shown that can match Maul'sown power showings?
3. I agree on Savage.
4. Mandalore (non-force sensitive) one shotting someone who was purportedly "above average", doesn't make him nearly up to scratch with the likes of Jinn and Kenobi, who Maul has faced and at times defeated. Let's say Revan beating him is somewhere in the ballpark of beating Bondara - that's not even close to Maul's better feats. It's a nice feat, but not something to use in a comparison of skill wuth Maul, when there are significantly better feats at your disposal.
5. Fair enough on drain, I guess. Did he succeed in using it out of desperation/involuntarily?
6. Okay so I watched the SWTOR fight again. What am I missing here? Revan opens up the fight engaging everyone in lightsaber combat and then as minutes go by, gradually ramps up the Force attacks. He then gets sufficiently injured and the "darkness takes him" - his HP was at zero, of course nobody could hurt him. Yes, he has a barrier up, but the fight was over, and not being able to hurt him with 0HP is nothing more than gameplay mechanics - unless I'm missing something from an outside source. In any case, the fact Revan opened up that fight with his lightsaber and only gradually ramped up the Force attacks seems right up Maul's alleyway, seeing as Maul is probably vastly superior physically, as well as in skill, tactical and martial abilities.
7. I suppose, but then he's never appeared to be everywhere at once to a Force sensitive, been too fast for droids to perceive ect ect. And even then skill is still far more pertinent than speed in this type of fight, and Revan is surely lacking in this category.
1. I don't see what's so preposterous about Revan being comparable with Maul. You seem to even think that being the tier under Maul is ridiculous for Revan. You're looking at it from a perspective such that you compare him directly with Maul. You could just as easily compare Revan to Bondara or Jinn, and see why he is better than the former and about equal with the second. For skill, he has beaten Mandalore, Yusanis and Malak, who are mostly accolades, but at least Mandalore has stomped Alek before. At this time alone, Revan is perhaps Bondara's skill level. Anoon lacks feats and is also just accolades. He contended with Maul for some time and presumably contended with Qui-Gon as well in their sparring matches, but we know full well that he is clearly inferior to them. We obviously can't use his feat with Maul because we're dissecting how skilful Revan is in comparison to Maul, but contending with Qui-Gon is a probable because Bondara did contend with Maul briefly, at least, and Maul is just better than Qui-Gon.
Back to Revan, he increased in ability after this and is stated by a number of sources to have slain entire armies of warriors and Dark Jedi/Sith, beaten Bandon, beaten Uthar Wynn and Yuthura Ban, beaten Juhani, beaten Calo Nord, beaten the One, defeated a considerably amplified Malak (this is more related to overall combat ability, though, since he was never stated to have outfought Malak with a blade) who also had stores of defeated Jedi to leech life from, and also defeated an amped Bastila repeatedly, who, like Malak, was also repeatedly healed by the Star Forge's energies.
In Revan, he outfought Mandalorians on Basilisks and two-shotted an Imperial Guard who was amped by Vitiate. To begin with, Imperial Guards are well known for their incredible fighting capacity and being the Emperor's ultimate non-Force sensitive warriors, and are in fact specifically trained to deal with Force users. Some of the Sith Empire's most powerful/skilled warriors have surrendered to them, which speaks well for their strength, and he was amped even further by Vitiate. For the record, both Scourge and Meetra in the novel took a considerably long amount of time to beat a few guards together, and Scourge is skilful enough to have been more skilful than his lightsaber instructors as an apprentice, beaten Darth Xedrix, beaten Xedrix's apprentices, etc. and Meetra stomped Murtog's team with laughable ease, and Scourge deemed her his approximate equal.
So do I see reason to proclaim him as at least comparable to Maul? Yes. It might be more believable if you didn't make a direct comparison to Maul and instead to Qui-Gon and Anoon. Revan is clearly superior to Bondara and is about as skilful as Qui-Gon, who held his own against Maul.
2. I said he has vastly greater combative Force ability, which is not just relevant to raw power, but also versatility and application. For the record, deflecting Lightning to begin with is a "challenge for even the most powerful masters", making it a near-impossible showing, so Revan displaying the feat at all is at least comparable to Maul's showings. But then, the fact that the deflected Lightning was so powerful it tore through Nyriss's Force Barrier and then disintegrated her, a being of considerable Force power, is proof that the original Lightning was incredibly powerful. Revan deflecting Lightning of that caliber is a showing of power that eclipses Maul's feats.
For telekinesis, he has collapsed an archway and blasted large blast doors apart, both showings not necessarily comparable to Maul's, but given that Revan was hindered and still accomplished the feats fairly effortlessly, I'd say they should be comparable in the loosest sense. He also called down multiple boulder-sized meteoroids during his fight with the Imperial Strike Team, which always happens no matter what so I think we can distinguish it from gameplay, and Drew Karpyshyn, who is Revan's creator and the author of The Old Republic: Revan, stated that Revan could quite possibly collapse entire buildings.
Telekinesis is a good measure of raw Force power, but it is not necessarily the best, and it certainly isn't the only measure of power. For other power showings, Revan unleashed Force Storms that killed multiple Rakatans and utilized Language Absorption to understand Rakatan whilst simultaneously implanting Basic into their minds, both feats of which he accomplished before his prime. He fought competitively with the Emperor telepathically in a dark side nexus, with the help of Meetra Surik's Force Ghost, and he Healed himself of extensive injuries from Vitiate's Lightning on a dark side nexus.
3. Alright.
4. I agree that naturally, a non-Force sensitive isn't quite that impressive, but the TOR era seems to have a habit of making them comparable to Jedi. For instance, Atton Rand killed multiple Jedi (Atton is Force-sensitive, but he never even learnt of this until after he killed his last Jedi), and both the Bounty Hunter and Imperial Agent in TOR seem to have the capacity to beat notable Sith and Jedi. Also, IIRC, in the TOR comics, a bounty hunter killed the Grand Master. I can't remember any feats for either of them, and the context of the fight, if any, is lost on me, so correct me on that if anybody does know anything regarding the fight, but the point is that the TOR era seems to have a habit of comparing non-Force sensitives to Jedi.
5. He did use it successfully along with Mekel, but as far as can be seen, they simply stole some of his power, not instantly killing him.
6. No, Revan's HP never went down to zero. IIRC, it always stops at about 7% and never goes down after that.
Maul isn't really vastly superior to Revan in physical traits. In speed, Revan is at least comparable. In durability, Revan surviving Vitiate's Lightning, which was "infinitely more powerful" than Nyriss's Lightning, which, in turn, was powerful enough to tear through Nyriss's Force Shields and then disintegrate her, one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the Empire, is a very good showing. Revan also survived standing next to an explosion with little injury. Also, a decent while before his prime, a half-conscious Revan resisted an amped Jorak Uln's repeated blasts of Force Lightning, which had previously always killed Sith acolytes. Also, Revan appears to know Crucitorn, which allowed him to be tortured extensively without being afflicted by the pain. In durability and speed, at least, Maul is certainly not vastly superior to Revan. I could potentially make a point for the same regarding martial arts as well, but I think I'll let it go.
7. Obi-Wan's lightsaber was never everywhere at once, but he is about as fast as Maul. Also, the argument is reversible in the sense that almost none of Maul's fights with anybody impressive occurred within only a few seconds. Revan's entire fight with Vitiate occurred in only a few seconds, which is a good showing.
@shootingnova: My stupid phone just ate a large chunk of my post... I have no idea when I'll be in a position to reply. I'm going on holiday for ten days tomorrow as well so it could be a while... I'll see what I can do. If I can't get my post up tonight I'll probably end up replying when I get back.
@i_like_swords: Alright. No rush.
I gots to say Team 1. Bane, and Revan could definitley take on maul and savage. And i'm confident malgus could take on ventress
@savageslayer said:
I gots to say Team 1. Bane, and Revan could definitley take on maul and savage. And i'm confident malgus could take on ventress
Have to agree here, somewhat. While I do think Maul edges out Revan (which is a debate for another day, for me), any of them could really take Savage out of the equation with enough lightning, maybe even in a combined effort if they so choose. And I think Malgus has more than enough in his toolbox to stalemate or edge out Ventress.
Basically, Savage is a weak link.
@darkdefender: Why would you pick a winner if you didn't know what the other character's feats are?
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/darth-malgus-respect-thread/97516/
@i_like_swords said:
@savageslayer said:
I gots to say Team 1. Bane, and Revan could definitley take on maul and savage. And i'm confident malgus could take on ventress
Have to agree here, somewhat. While I do think Maul edges out Revan (which is a debate for another day, for me), any of them could really take Savage out of the equation with enough lightning, maybe even in a combined effort if they so choose. And I think Malgus has more than enough in his toolbox to stalemate or edge out Ventress.
Basically, Savage is a weak link.
Not so much a weak link. Savage still possesses even raw power and strength to challenge them. He simply lacks a defense against Lightning.
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