Republic and CIS vs Covenant Empire (Rd 1)

@detrolord: The GAR at the height of their power only fielded around 1.2 million clones. I would say at most the CIS had 5-10 million droids in play. Of course it should have been a lot more but the authors for some reason thought 1 million clones was a lot which is entirely ridiculous in a galaxy that had a ridiculous amount of beings. In one of the books in the Vong war it states that 365 quintillion beings lost their lives......that shows just how huge the galaxy is. But it is what it is, covvies have billions the GAR and CIS together have millions nothing more nothing less

@eisenfauste: The Clones had 3 million+ and the CIS had Quadrillions. The OP says the planet is big enough to have all the forces of the 3 factions on there, so....together the GAR/CIS have Quadrillions.

@wolfrazer: Nope they had 1.2 millie as directly stated in one of their late novels. The droids didn't have quadrillions I just double checked some stuff. It states, from wookiepedia :P.................that they were outnumbered 100 to 1 which puts the droid army at 100 billion or around there. I recant my statement of covenant outnumbering the CIS numbers put them in the covenant ballpark with the covenant edging them out IIRC.

@eisenfauste:

Once combined the individual elements of the commerce factions' military formed the mighty Separatist Droid Army: over a Quadrillion droids total(including the vast number of support droids necessary to keep such a large force operational)

- Taken from TCW Campaign Guide

Even if you take away the support, that would still most likely be over the millions/billions, considering it says OVER a Quadrillion.

Also how late is said novel? Because in the same guide, it says the GAR was 3+ mill.

Alright so Dooku does say the droid armies do outnumber them 100 to 1. However this was before the Campaign Guide came out, stating it was in the Quadrillions. So the droid armies seem to have ramped up production as the war went on, so it being in the Quadrillions is fine.

@wolfrazer: Campaign guide? Where can I find this?

@eisenfauste: I downloaded it off of 4shared.

nerdgasm

@wolfrazer: "I don't think you're gonna find a concrete number for Clones, their number is 3 million+....that's all we got really, they never seem to go over the 3 million mark. I mean unless you wanna try and add up all the Clones that were killed and add it to the 3 million....but I don't think that'll be possible...so 3 million+ is about all we have." <-- very well i was mostly referring to the droid numbers per say at their height

"Also in regards to Droid Intelligence...yeah the B1s aren't that bright and neither are the B2s, noted as they ignored enemies when they went out of their line of sight." <-- which is the biggest problem imo and why they would have such a hard time with the covenant. I feel General G would be getting really pissed off at their incompetence during this battle lol. XD

"The B3 Ultra SBDs don't have this problem however, the Cortosis SBDs do. Although the Cortosis ones are still hella durable, performing extremely well against the Jedi, breaking into the Jedi Temple even. Heck they proved to be a destabilizing factor and Palps had to let information leak out about the factory, so Anakin could go and destroy it.

Any other droid, they should be fine though in the Intel department." <-- This is true, but I feel the elites can and could match their intelligents by a margin and if the engineers are actually helping the covies they would far surpass them droids at least in tech and observation wise, a quote from one of them btw.

Unlike other covenant forces, they were not pipeds. instead they had several tentacular appendges sprouting from their thick trunks.

They floated a half meter above the ground, as if the odd pink bladders on their backs kept them aloft. One alien used a slender tentacle to open the hood of a car. It began to disassemble the car's electric engine, moving with startling speed.

Within twenty seconds all the parts had been neatly arranged in rows on the pavement. The creature paused, then reassembled the parts with blinding quickness, disassembled and rebuilt it several times into different arrangements. Finally, the creature simply reassembled the car and floated on its way.

Halo: Fall of Reach pg. 183

Keep in mind it knows nothing of the humans, there is also a case of it not only repairing MC's suit that had been one shotted for his energy shield to go down and then second shotted to burn his suit to where it doesn't work any more. ( ofc he lived cause well hes a walking PIS others whom are hit are NOT so lucky ) Anyway, an engineer not only repairs it, but improves his gear as well again having no knowledge on Mc's suit.

@killerwasp: Yeah, at their height, the numbers was in the Quadrillions for the CIS.

@wolfrazer: alright just curious ^^

@killerwasp if there no sith, don't they still have Grievous, and Grievous is a BA mofo. He can take on any elite close quarters even the arbiter. Plus he has Magna guards, and assassain droids. I feel like close quarters the CIS could contend with the covies, especially since assassain droids have taken down a jedi before i think, but im way to out of it to remember.

@savageslayer: Yes they still have General G it just really limits to him, and if hes busy fighting enemies his allies and his army gets mowed, if he doesn't fight then they still mow his armies but they'd be able to apply a little more difficulty to the covenant empire. Either way the CIS has a lack of true leadership within their armies.

" I feel like close quarters the CIS could contend with the covies, especially since assassain droids have taken down a jedi before i think, but im way to out of it to remember."<--He can take on some arbiters, but not all of them at once especially the arbiter that soloed an entire army without any problems... Covenant army > 6 jedi. Manga guards and assassin droids would be good, but no match for.. you know what here lets just list the elite ranks right now.

Elite minors known to give MC a hard time in Close quarters combat, if you know anything about MC you will know this is a very tough race. They are equally as strong, very smart, and excellent close quarters fighters

Elite Major ^ basically same up as on top but better. Each rank means they earned it by fighting, killing, combat experience, etc. Basically takes a squad of marines to even stand a chance against him.

Elite Ultra basically field officers that are above elite majors and minors, they make the few squads calls.

Elite Generals able to live JUST FINE after eating a frag nade and able to push on fighting like nothing happened. They are the top notch for the standard elite infantry, and are most likely covered with experience, due to them being highly trained and highly skilled warriors along with leadership. They are the top notch for the general elite infantry. On top of that they also are the lesser commanders of the platoons of men and are able to give orders without almost any mistakes on top of that they most likely have 20 years + of being in the military.

Now keep in mind the next are specialist for the position, however the elites in general can cloak even regular ones, but these ones are the specials.

Cloaked/Stealth Elites They are considered assassins, and the covenant spies, able to call out shots to their friendly elites apply ambushes, and of course kill at close quarters if need be.

Elite Rangers are what the covenant bugs are but better, able to use flying to their advantage to scout, lure, and destroy/confuse their enemies ( if its close quarters areas ) with their maneuverability and flight.

Next special forces for the elites

Elite special forces, are basically close quarters experts, along with carrying a vairity of weapons that allows them to complete the job. On top of that they are very, very very VERY hard to kill. Their is still tons of them, but still are able to get the job done. They are also known IIRC to kill spartans and be able to collect their tags as well.

The Officer in charge is basically ^ this but on crack.

says it all just above Elite General, and are still very tough and very skilled fighters in all weapons.

Even better than this guy ^

elite Councilor, are not the best but one of the top ranked elites and are prolly on equals as the zealots. They are able to deal lot of damage to enemy forces, and of course are still kinda rare amongst the elite ranks.

These guys make everyone below them look like wimps, they are able to kill spartan 2s and spartan 3s with trouble, but they can also die so its most likely they can kill more of them if they are on equal terms. They are prolly the top 3 on deadliest warrior XD huehue

Elite FM's are basically higher than zealots in, and are able again to kill spartans without too much problems ( if PIS ) wasn't involved.

No imagine on the next rank but the next rank is supreme commander, they are the famous ones u hear about ( if they are high ranking that is ) most of the time all arbiters and other famous ones u will see are supreme commanders. They are the Elite in control of major and minor fleets of the covenant empire and are very skilled in tactics and military doctrines.

Anyway this is just elites, and their ranks brutes basically have the similar ranks, and of course along with all the covenant. There are prolly hundreds of them since the covenant at their height consisted of prolly billions, and of course each of them is armed with halo 3 gear, so their will be no lacking in the technology pre-human war which was still really good as it is. As for those assassin droids its doubtful, its possible but doubtful.

^ this isnt necessary in order as well, it branches to different types of ranks within each section per say.

@killerwasp: that's what I get for skim reading the op...

@thedailybagel: yep shame on u XD

i'm pretty sure quinlition its said height of its power

quintillions man

Also both at the start there were 200,000 clones and more than 1 mil at the final stage for a while(individual clones not units) it said at the height is 1-2 billion

i know at 1st it was only 200,000 clones vs 3 million driods mostly B1s but as the was progress the Trade Federation, Techno Union, Intergalatic Bank Clan, etc began shifting all their resources at building massive army of drones while theirs a battle when the clones shot down a command center and all the driods lost its signal which the CIS upgrade at that time. it said if the Drones was gathered in one place it will be around Quintillions of Drones, even General Grevious said it was imposible to lose the war but how? How was they are just puppets of the rising empire thats why

UNSC marines can kill elite just fine avery even killed a squad of elites and a brute cheiftain with a help of another UNSC marince which i forgot the name

Avery killed a elite one one with a pistol.

I'm pretty sure most of the spartan 2's died was in impossible mission to accomplish level they got a name for that i don't remember and most of them fought waves of covies until they go down thats why they are called demons in the covenant.

However Spartan 3's was just mass produced.

I say i would put the Magna Guards at the same level of average elite which can probably destroy any rank of elites in H2H

colonial militias a trained civilian with one of the UNSC generals was able to repel covenant invasion of 2 weeks before starting the Halo Wars

Sh!t i almost put a Sith here -_-

@detrolord: Where are Quintillions coming from? Source says Quadrillions. Also where are the Clone billions coming from? Would like some sources/quotes.

Seperatist Driod Army

Grand Army of the republic

just control F

Clone Trooper wiki

Clone numbers

@detrolord: Yeah...I'm not talking those sources seriously, the Quintillion source says it comes from the Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross Sections....yeah it doesn't, I don't see anything about it. I'm not really trusting either about the Clone sources, unless it's backed up by an actual source.

revenge of the sith is part of the clone wars i agree w/ the clone my bad i'll try to find a better source

@killerwasp if one of the arbiters lost to a marine 1 on 1, which he only lost cause of the sucker shot with the pistol. But still i think magna guards could take on arbiters and grievous could take on the awesome arbiter.

@detrolord: "UNSC marines can kill elite just fine avery even killed a squad of elites and a brute cheiftain with a help of another UNSC marince which i forgot the name" <-- actually no there are pis moments for this and in "contact harvest" it was only brutes, jackals, and grunts, but on avg no the elites take quite a bit of the UNSC marines out, and they never killed the brute chief he actually lived while being injured that much and tartarus actually killed him cause he challenged him to a duel. ^^Anyway they can kill red or blue maybe just fine, but the rest no they need spartan help or to out number them. Gold and higher was actually either killed by a rockets or by MC or another spartan. ^^

"Avery killed a elite one one with a pistol." <-- as i said PIS, unless he took a couple head shots

"I'm pretty sure most of the spartan 2's died was in impossible mission to accomplish level they got a name for that i don't remember and most of them fought waves of covies until they go down thats why they are called demons in the covenant."<-- they were in impossible missions, but it wasn't spammed with elites it was spammed with weaker covenant with elites are you doubting that chief didn't struggle against a blue elite in hand to hand at all?

"However Spartan 3's was just mass produced." <-- this is correct but their stats were about the same as spartans 2s the main difference was they had usually SPI armor. You ever heard of noble 6? they were spartan 3s..

"I say i would put the Magna Guards at the same level of average elite which can probably destroy any rank of elites in H2H" <-- completely wrong, higher elites like elite general and up would destroy them.

"colonial militias a trained civilian with one of the UNSC generals was able to repel covenant invasion of 2 weeks before starting the Halo Wars" <-- AH halo wars thats were u found it, and let me guess u think sgt forge won against the arbiter 1 on 1 in a fair fight lol. XD

@savageslayer: Considering he allowed all arbiters, it's not happening. There are three main ones, and that one that got suckered and somehow lost to sgt forge ( which is beyond me fuck who ever allowed that ), is still a good fighter, but he isn't my ace in the hole this guy is. ^ defeats a whole army of them. Keep in mind blue elites alone give MC trouble, and chief usually prefers to kill them at range rather than having to deal with them hand to hand.

@killerwasp that looks fan made, and that was elites, jackals, and i think i saw a couple grunts.

I feel they should allow 1 or 2 of the main jedi, like mace or obi-wan

@savageslayer: It's not though, its the different style of video. Their are all similar to that video wasn't the best, but yeah its from halo legends all but home coming was actually canon IIRC. My point was that he completely laid waste to that army without much of a problem and technically speaking any spartan or even MC would of lost if there wasn't a plot shield defending him. Anyway he was before the human covenant war though. Argh I just realized i linked u a phucking fan that messed it up give me a second and ill link the actual video that has chat and stuff not the halo 2 song lol.^ there we go.

you guess wrong i win XD well i currently download sources book give me time -_-

@detrolord: you guess wrong i win XD well i currently download sources book give me time -_-" <-- lol XD

@killerwasp Yeah thats more like it. But Grievous has taken on numerous Jedi at once if you've seen the first star wars cartoon when he fought like 5 jedi including ki-adi-mundi. Especially since arbiter doesn't have the force, grievous should do fine but it'd be a hard fight, i give grievous 6/10 over him maybe even just 5/10

@savageslayer: o ik whom he faced.. He faced a padawon, two jedi, and two jedi knights and then a jedi knight council man Ki-adi-mundi isn't a master btw hes on the jedi council though hes the only knight to be officially on there ( granted iirc anakin may of been on it but i dont think he was ).

"Especially since arbiter doesn't have the force, grievous should do fine but it'd be a hard fight, i give grievous 6/10 over him maybe even just 5/10" <-- hes gonna beat an arbiter even the one i shown, problem is hes not gonna be able to take on the Brute chief and them at the same time and since he added all leaders this includes all brute chiefs, which are immune to basically gun fire and plasma swords. Plasma swords are = to sabers but i feel they have a lot more aoe burn to them aka temperature in the spartan suits spike even without being hit. As i said though General G will also have to see the invisibility that all arbiters have as well, and i doubt the could block the plasma shots being fired at him as well, since they are not a beam, but rather a substance.

@killerwasp: Uhh... wasn't legends the one that shows Spartan IIs punching with kiloton punches?

@wut: No, but that gif LOLOLOLOL. Halo legends showed us what the forerunners could do ( for a start ) and how powerful the flood was. The series also gave us the out look of the Covenant-Human War as well. It also showed some pretty good missions done ( with the expection being home coming IIRC ) as non-canon. The rest IIRC was considered canon as much as it pisses me off, either way the covenant leadership is superior to that of the CIS and prolly the republic's as well.

@killerwasp I can see grievous having some sort of vision to see invisible people but i'm not sure. And i'm sure a couple shot from a republic commandoes sniper rifle would take down a chieftain. but that freaking gravity hammer would be fucking shit up. They should allow sith and jedi, like 10 jedi and 2 sith.

@savageslayer: Nope, as i said it was immune to plasma fire and their armor was immune to gun fire as well. Example was this

Now it was the aliens' turn to protect their own. The leader lunged toward its shorter escort,turning its back toward the greenhouse. Its golden armor must have had stronger shields, because even the bravo squads' concentrated fire failed to take them down.

-Halo: Contact Harvest

This wasn't even as good as shields as the brute u faced in halo 2 ( whom in the books is better than this chief ). The snipers will also have a hard time with jackals and i'd think also that jackal's sniper rifle the beam rifle basically would take General G out as well if they notice him or spot him. All it would take would be a plasma nade to prolly end the cyborg.

@killerwasp idk Grievous has been through a lot of crap, like when that gunsip blew a hole in the debris and started to barrage him with blaster fire. I think the Republic rifles might be stronger than plasma rifles, or just about the same. Plus if you add in the fact Gunships would be strafing and snipers on em picking off guys, I say republic has a very good chance of winning. You gotta admit giving them CIS too makes it too much. Those AT-TE, walkers, speeders, Quad walker things. It's too much for covies IMO

@savageslayer: I'm not doubting that, but the covenant plasma would be next to impossible to block. Jackals hunters all that is a lot of aoe. The leaders are able to use cloak ( i'd need to see general g quotes or scans or videos to see if he can see invis units or he will be killed ), and not to mention if they land that plasma nade which sticks to just about anything hes going to die. ". I think the Republic rifles might be stronger than plasma rifles" <-- they are not, same or covies weapons are superior due to what it does.

"Plus if you add in the fact Gunships would be strafing and snipers on em picking off guys," <-- did u see the AA i listed and the aircraft the covenant has? and account the distance? lol. Not very many if not at all any are gonna live through that.

"You gotta admit giving them CIS too makes it too much. " <-- not it really isnt not when the Covenant is Billions and their only Quad which is again as i told detro quad = 4 and bi = 2 cut that in half and its a 1 to 2 ratio, on top of the Covenant's weapons able to one shot prolly most droids ( which believe or not most of those quadrillions are prolly B1s and possibly B2s ) whom are very silly on their thinking. This is going to give the Covenant a leap a head in general infantry.

"Those AT-TE, walkers, speeders, Quad walker things. It's too much for covies IMO" <-- care to explain? super scarabs and scarabs are gonna be here, and i'm not seeing an At-Te doing jack to it at all.

@killerwasp to be honest the rules kinda fuck over the Republic. But a lot of their pilots can dodge the AA, but your right a lot would lose. But Vulture droids, the CIS fighters can still be used in ground battle, and they can do bombing runs if i remember right. Plus the Artillery the republic has should be able to take down a scarab after a couple shots. If you remember when they took down the Zillo Beast with their stun modes, if they were on full blast they might take down the scarabs rather quickly. And wraiths, might get one-shotted by the AT-TE's main cannon, and other way around with Wraither on shotting them as well. But IMO the republics walkers> ghosts, choppers, and their other vehicles. Not to mention some of the vehicles you don't see in the shows. Like the hover tank they had in one of their games, i think it was called star wars clone wars actually. But the tank was beast, and fast. IMO i give it a stalemate, but i like team 1 more

@savageslayer: "to be honest the rules kinda fuck over the Republic." <-- Yeah, but his idea was that even the republic's army base army could win and likewise with the droids without much leadership or tactics. I'm here to prove him wrong.

"But Vulture droids, the CIS fighters can still be used in ground battle, and they can do bombing runs if i remember right. " <-- no spacecraft those are spacecraft he only allowed the covenant transports cause well there transports likewise with both CIS and Republics transports.

"Plus the Artillery the republic has should be able to take down a scarab after a couple shots." <-- prolly not because from what the humans have done they couldn't put them down. As i told wut before there isn't necessary a lot of feats for them on durability, but from what has been said they haven't been killed by the ground forces of the UNSC. I understand the UNSC is not as strong, but when it shows no signs of weakness to what they throw at it i doubt the star wars could hurt it as easily as said.

"If you remember when they took down the Zillo Beast with their stun modes, if they were on full blast they might take down the scarabs rather quickly" <--Remember the Zillo beast was also immune to their arms no matter what their best thing was to stun it.

"And wraiths, might get one-shotted by the AT-TE's main cannon, and other way around with Wraither on shotting them as well. " <-- i could agree with this.

"But IMO the republics walkers> ghosts, choppers, and their other vehicles." <-- Not seeing it especially with them being able to pierce those small walkers and choppers would cut right through due to their front being immune to most fire arms including plasma nades as well.

"Not to mention some of the vehicles you don't see in the shows. " <- such as?

"Like the hover tank they had in one of their games, i think it was called star wars clone wars actually. " <-- hover tank has been shown in the star wars comics, and novels. Its not necessary a beast either it wouldnt fair much better to some of the stuff the covenant has to offer. It was only a beast in Star wars battlefront due to game mechanics and the fact that there really wasn't anything too heavy in the game.

@killerwasp Dang I thought vulture droids were used in ground battles a lot, but they are spacraft i guess.

UNSC used bullets, and Tank shells against the scarabs. To me the Republic's artillery's firing looks like a scarabs blast only more precise, and probably a little less powerful. But their artillery is way less durable than scarabs, if you remember the ones that look like AT-TE's got beaten by droids on bikes with spears.

Not the ones in battlefront at least i don't think. look up the clone wars game

"Dang I thought vulture droids were used in ground battles a lot, but they are spacraft i guess." <--- their main thing was as a fighter droid lol taking them out of the battle he even said strictly no spacecraft besides ofc the dropships.

"UNSC used bullets, and Tank shells against the scarabs." <-- and mac rounds, Either way lasers don't always = better for this. Plus the plasma fired from the Scarabs are gonna melt anything that of what the Republic or CIS has to offer. How is it also more precise,? the scarab shoots in a straight line? lol you can't miss with that lol.

"But their artillery is way less durable than scarabs, if you remember the ones that look like AT-TE's got beaten by droids on bikes with spears." <-- ik i can link the video if u would like to what im thinking of.

@killerwasp I see what you mean, but their beam shoots faster, I remember in the game just being able to run around them.

Heres the video of that hover tank

@savageslayer: Yes i was gonna link that video, as i said before look whom its facing? What we don't even know how much it tanks on damage wise. Plasma on the covenant lighter vehicles are heavier than their hand held weapons. Unless its at least 3662 C degrees its not going to have a chance to tank what will be thrown at it.

I'm not doubting the republic has good stuff, problem is they are way out numbered by the med to high billions ( i just checked my hand book) As for the covenant forces there's technically speaking 1.3472837582 (soemthing i dont remember 1.9 something trillion hunters at least 12. something billion brutes 8. something billion elites and ofc its goes from there. Anyway they out number the clones and their forces are better than the standard droids, their actual infantry is also better trained, i do have quotes of how good or decent the brutes are. On top of that what detro said about Sgt johnson and his men taking on elites with civis i did not find. Thus resting my case that i do know that MC struggles with reg elites and thus being able to imply they could give trouble to beings that are not as good as he is im personal stats and armor.

You guys really using game videos?....

Also as per the AT-TEs being taken out by droids on speeder bikes. Those Lancer IG droids had anti-vehicle mines which were able to destroy them, Durge(who was superhuman in strength) was the only one able to destroy AT-TE's with his lance single handed, you had one scene where multiple IG Lancers had to pierce an AT-TE just to destroy it. So even then, they weren't easily taken out by lances.

Even then, they were no ordinary lances, but power lances which are a pretty effective anti vehicle/infantry weapon.

@wolfrazer: No im not using game mechanics as ill quote "It was only a beast in Star wars battlefront due to game mechanics". So no i'm not im stating on how the tank actually was. lol

Have we concluded yet on whom has won?

@killerwasp said:

All he needs to do how is make that Terran Dominion vs vs Galactic Republic (Clone War Era) thread like @wut said in this thread.

@jwwprod: lol

@killerwasp true, he really shouldve made the army's specifics sizes with specific units. Or made it fair and maybe Galactic Empire could keep up with covies better. Cause I think AT-AT beats scarab.

@savageslayer: again the At-At is not beating the scarab lol. Not in size or fire power its been concluded that their an even or about an even match lol. Anyway he wanted to see both armies fight at their height power like I said i believe he thought the Republic and CIS would be enough without leaders ( jedi and sith ) to take on the Covenant and win. He's trying to mostly make it strict army vs army, but eh o well.

@killerwasp he should take out covenant leaders so no more insanely strong chieftains. and the arbiters,