@velle37: Bruce, Dick, and Tim's One Year Later trip hasn't really been shown a lot....Morrison touched on it a few times during R.I.P. but that's about it
" Does anyone have scans or character hearsay about how good Daredevil is? Any good showings? "
He's held his own against a number of very skilled fighters, like Wolverine, Iron Fist, Echo, Elektra, and others. He defeated Captain America once, but that fight had circumstance surrounding it in Daredevil's favor. Besides, Cap has defeated Daredevil at least one other time anyway. He's still very skilled though. "
I see. What has allowed him to beat Iron Fist or Wolverine?
As for Iron Fist, I don't remember. I'm sorry; I'm not even entirely sure he won. All I said is that he held his own against them. As for Wolverine, he's defeated him with a nerve strike. Daredevil's an excellent martial artist. In comparison with some of DC's fighters, he's not as skilled as BatMan, but he is comparable to a number of their best.
" @velle37: Bruce, Dick, and Tim's One Year Later trip hasn't really been shown a lot....Morrison touched on it a few times during R.I.P. but that's about it "
Tim is really skilled in ways people dont even know. like the fact that he can hit nerv clusters with his staff and immobolize a foe (though he doesnt seem to enjoy doing it that way for some reason) and he is a Master of the Leapard Blow (only other two to master it is Batman, and Shiva) the leapard blow is awsome because its an inst kill lol ftw. And he has taken down people with tons of more experience than him and more than twice his age. Tim is a beast in all seriousness. i think if they made an official list of top martial artists of DC Tim should be right below Dick and right above Jason.
and regarding to people who think jason is more skilled. if you think about it from a skill standpoint and not including morals, tim would kill jason. Jason only stacks up to tim because he uses lethal force and tim doesnt. but in a fight were tim did use lethal force, jason would get a leapard blow to the chest and die in seconds...Tim is an incredibly skilled fighter, he just doesnt want to kill and it forshadows his skill, as it does with Dick and Bruce, though people dont think of it. if they all fought with lethal force, they would be twice as powerful. though i would hate to see that because not using lethal force is what makes them heroes =)
" Daredevil wins. Tim has grown to be one of the most intelligent, determined, and skilled members of the BatMan family. BatMan has stated that Tim will be greater than him, but Tim is not there yet. He's demonstrated high degrees of skill as Red Robin. He's proven willing to do what he believes necessary. But he still has not yet displayed the skill necessary to defeat Daredevil. Daredevil is the more skilled martial artist, has greater physical attributes, has superhuman senses, and is the superior acrobat. Of the two, I would say that Tim is more intelligent. If he had prep for this battle, he could defeat Daredevil. He's downed Lady Shiva by preparing ahead of time for an attack she planned on him. However, Tim has no prep in this instance. Tim has some decent equipment. His retractable bo staff could aid him in a fight against Daredevil with his billy clubs, and Tim could put up a good fight. But he can't win this. Daredevil's simply more skilled than he is and has greater reaction time. Tim is brilliant, but Daredevil simply supersedes him. Daredevil should win this. "
This pretty much covers everything. No need to say anymore
" Tim is really skilled in ways people dont even know. like the fact that he can hit nerv clusters with his staff and immobolize a foe (though he doesnt seem to enjoy doing it that way for some reason) and he is a Master of the Leapard Blow (only other two to master it is Batman, and Shiva) the leapard blow is awsome because its an inst kill lol ftw. And he has taken down people with tons of more experience than him and more than twice his age. Tim is a beast in all seriousness. i think if they made an official list of top martial artists of DC Tim should be right below Dick and right above Jason. and regarding to people who think jason is more skilled. if you think about it from a skill standpoint and not including morals, tim would kill jason. Jason only stacks up to tim because he uses lethal force and tim doesnt. but in a fight were tim did use lethal force, jason would get a leapard blow to the chest and die in seconds...Tim is an incredibly skilled fighter, he just doesnt want to kill and it forshadows his skill, as it does with Dick and Bruce, though people dont think of it. if they all fought with lethal force, they would be twice as powerful. though i would hate to see that because not using lethal force is what makes them heroes =) "
although i think daredevil would still win. tim does have a chance because he could use sonic batarangs to fog up daredevils senses and hurt his ears, leaving him wide open for an attack.
if tim figured out daredevils little sound weakness before the fight was over i think he would take it but daredevil might get to him before he has that chance so im leaning in favor of daredevil, but i wouldnt count tim out 100% of the time
I vote for DD. Even though Timmy has the intellect and skills from Batman, DD is condition-wise superior, a better fighter and also has the senses of superhuman sharpness to back him up.
"Tim's improvements have mostly been mentally and academic his fighting abilities have not improved since he left The Titans. Though with prep Tim is very dangerous against superior fighter like taking out Shiva twice and Nearly taking down Cassie if not for severe blood loss. But straight fight Tim would lose to Matt "
Now onto my two cents about this match up. Daredevil wins this match, for more than just his skills.
1. Daredevil is a bigger dude than Red Robin is. He'll be able to take more damage and probably is a heavy hitter compared to young Tim.
2. Daredevil has a better reaction time, not that Tim is bad in this category.
3. Both know nerve strikes, not sure if they'll be able to preform them depending on the durability of their suites.
4. One thing I'll give Tim the advantage on is gadgets and tactics in this fight.
In the end Daredevil wins this, he's more experienced and is a larger guy. That's how I feel about the Tim VS Jason debate, Jason is a much bigger guy, but Tim still seems to hang with him. Why? I beileve Tim is more skilled than Jason in h2h, but not quite enough to overcome the size of Jason who also has dangerous skills of his own.
What Tim has done as Red Robin recently I'd put him in the top 25 fighters in the DCU. Pretty impressive considering he's only seventeen. Bruce sure knows his stuff, his soldiers are living proof of that.
I think i like the off topic discussion more than the original subject lol. I'ts kind of hard for me to look at this objectively though, since Tim is one of my favorite characters in the DCU. Uhhhhhh I don't know if he is top 10 or not, and I'm not even sure it has been defined clearly enough where his current combat skill is at. It seems like writers tend focus on the planning and analyzing aspects of his fights, not raw skill on some easily defined metric. Though I also have not read everything he has ever been in. Also yeah threads 2 weeks old don't yell at me i really like Tim haha.
"Tim's improvements have mostly been mentally and academic his fighting abilities have not improved since he left The Titans. Though with prep Tim is very dangerous against superior fighter like taking out Shiva twice and Nearly taking down Cassie if not for severe blood loss. But straight fight Tim would lose to Matt "
Do you have scans of him fighting Cassie? "
"
I had never seen this fight before, and people were talking like Tim beat Cass down. I see him shove her into a wall, then she hits hm a couple of times, but no strikes from him in the scans shown, (Tim did backhand Cass when she was drugged and fighting Ravager).
Tim takes this. in about 10 sec of the fight he will deduce that DD is blind and after that Matt is done. I like DD but i kinnda hate the fact that he`s not as resorceful as Tim
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