Red hood Vs Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)

Fight to the Death, Jason Todd Vs Cassandra Cain.

Random Encounter, in Arkham Asylum

Morales Off

All materials are available for their use

Cassandra Cain assuming she has body reading

I'll back cassie

Jason's my favorite Bat Family member (Not named Batman) but a morals off Cassie is CRAZY. Jason can run of course but he would just die tired.

Jason wins. Massive gear advantage.

Jason is physically superior but I think Cassie's move reading gives her a win.

Cass stomps hard.

Jason has no-where near the speed-feats good enough, to suggest that he can even react to a morals-off Cass...someone that as a little child, has moved too fast for high-speed-film-cameras to record...dodged bullets at point blank and without looking...dodged sniper-bullets after they've been fired, and without looking...As Batgirl, she continued dodging bullets after thye've been fired, sometimes from more than one shooter, and from different directions...sniper-bullets, as well...sometimes she just moved so fast that she toke the guns from the shooters hands before they could pull the triggers...moved as a blur...speed-blitzed people to the point that they seemed to be frozen in time...moved too fast for Robin (Tim Drake) to perceive...hitted Batman so fast that he only noticed it when he started coughing blood, etc.

And while being morals off, Cass wouldn't hold-back, which means that she would hit him, like this:

Jason would die, before he could even realize that he was on a fight.

Jason todd all the way

Cassandra wrecks.

Cass.

@bat_girl_cc: none of that is proof she won't get hacked and burnt by the All-Blades, tasered to hell, and shot in the face.

That is proof that, before he could even formulate a thought, he would have his brain punched out of his skull.

@bat_girl_cc: if he can outpace Batman. Out pace Nightwing. And severely outpace Shiva. Then he can react to Cain. She can't dodge his swords.

And Jason's also bullet timed as a kid and as an adult. Cass is faster, but not on the level you think.

Cass punched Batman when they weren't fighting. If Bruce was ready Cass would not be able to do it.

Also Jason's armor and hood are huge advantages.

All wrong.

1) Jason outpaced Batman and Nightwing? when? where? how?

Jason outpaced Shiva? are you talking about their fight? how does beat someone proves that you're faster than that person? unless of course, Jason was shown speed-blitzing her, which wasn't the case...and Pre-new-52 Lady Shiva >>>>> New 52 Lady Shiva, at all levels, its not even comparable.

2) Aim-dodging its not bullet-timing...one thing is moving faster than the shooter can react, another thing is dodging the bullet after it was fired...by feats, Cass is much, much faster, than Jason, there's no comparrison possible.

3) Yeah, they were fighting, the thing is, Batman only noticed it later, when he started coughing blood, it was a speed-Blitz:

4) Against a morals-off Cass? no, they really aren't...Cass has K.O'ed a super-human, by punching him with stricking-power enough, to break a human skull...she has bursted through brick with punches and kicks alone...opened a huge hole on a prison-brick-wall...she has punched through bullet-proof-glass...punched through 3-inch-quartz...karate chopped a sword in half...kicked hard enough to break steel...Jason would be turned into paste, in no time.

Cass sticks her foot up his butt

@bat_girl_cc: I'm not an idiot I know what bullet timing is. Jason's done it.

And all of Cassandras striking feats pale to Batman's, and Batman wasn't hurting Jason at all when Jason had his hood on.

Cass

@allstarsuperman:

This it's bullet-dodging:

(Notice, that in all of the ocasions, in the scans below, the bullet had already been fired, and Cass only moves, after.)

(The scan above its from Cassandra's training under David Cain, before she became Batgirl, we can see David pulling the trigger on the second panel, and Cassandra dodging the bullets, on the next panels, while having her back turned to him, and even dodging the bullets in mid-air.)

Another exemple:

Another exemple:

(Notice the aim of the gun pointing to her head, and the bullet already "flying" on her direction, on the same panel, and she only dodges it on the panel after...the same thing happens on the next panels)

Another exemple:

(This one its more impressive than the others, because here its shown Cass dodging sniper-bullets after they were fired, and without looking, both as a little child, and as Batgirl)

See? Jason doesn't do this, he "aim-dodges".

Jason because he has a lot of gear. He has fought Batman many times. Jason 8/10 times.

@bat_girl_cc:

Cass can't beat batman unless bats has no toys at all in his disposal,so unless its just pure hand to hand then he doesn't lose to her...and the feats you posted about bullet timing are not much different than many high level bullet timers or aim dodgers... I don't know if Jason has those kinds of feats but daredevil, nightwing, batman, black panther, captain America, and people of that ilk all have those type of feats...

I agree with you on this battle tho as I not up to date on the new 52 Jason..... BTW How is cass in the new 52?? I heard she was back as black bat??

1) Cass fought a standard-gear-Batman to a stallemate on Batgirl #50 - Tough Love they fought all across the city, and Batman had to use gadgets + the environment around them, to keep a certain distance from her, because every time Cass got close she quickly gained the upper-hand, minus on one instance, during the entire fight.

2) Not really, most of them, what they do its aim-doding, they almost never really dodge a bullet, its not nearly as consistent for them, as it is for Cass, not even close.

3) In the New 52 Cass has only appeared on a possible future Batgirl: Futures End #1 - Darker in the Soul as a member of the League of Batgirls, and she will appear again during Convergence, on the Batgirl issue, as Black Bat.

@bat_girl_cc: we will always disagree on the bullet feats I see lol. cap and DD have multiple feats dodging bullets after they are fired while they are in mid air. anyways I always respect what your take is .. I am excited she is back tho...I am still in forever evil lol... but If she gets in this universe as a mainstay then I am just going to pick up whatever title they put her in...

I know that they have a few...the thing is, they have a few feats like this, in thousands of appearences...how is it consistent for them?...Cass has performed dozens of feats like this, in 350 or so, appearences, that's consistency!

Yeah, me too, although there's alot of copycats and wannabies on the main earth, now...there's Nightwing (Body-Reading), there's Strix (very skilled and bada$$ asian mute assassin), there's Harper Row (she has a relationship of "girlfriend/sister" to Tim, like Cass used to have, although Cass/Tim was way better), there's Julia Pennyworth (the new ninja of bat-family)...i don't know man, there's times, that i want to see her just like she was, on Earth-2, or on the future, or something.

@bat_girl_cc: For cap and dd?? they are very consistent,,, as cap in his earlier days had tons on bullet dodging feats that were in mid air,, and now he can see faster and actually see the bullets as explained by brubaker.... DD has several mid air and dodging after bullets are fired but to be fair that is due to Radar,, not necessarily speed..... I didn't bring up Iron Fist, wolverine, or Black panther because we know they have those feats also...

Hasn't new 52 Jason beat shiva a couple of times?? I still don't think that gives him the win tho... I mean if he can keep his distance and use his toys to the best of his ability then maybe he puts up a great fight but the only batfamily member that beats her consistently is bruce in my opinion...

@bat_girl_cc:

my bad didn't mean to put wolverine in bullet timing argument up above...

1) I think that you are confusing aim-dodging with bullet-dodging, its not the same thing, if you see both the bullet being fired and the character doding it on the same panel, then its most likely aim-dodging, because we can't know what happened in between, like he could have been moving before the trigger had been pulled, on Cassandra's case though, we can clearly see the bullets being fired in one panel, and Cass dodging them on the next.

2) No, she beat him once, and he beat her a few issues later, although he stated that he did it was due to some special shortcuts that she teached him, just in case he ever fought a opponent of her caliber, implying that he's not as skilled as she is, otherwise he would not need to use any shortcuts.

And Lady Shiva in the New 52 is clearly not as good as she was in the Pre-New-52 continuity, at this point, her low showings are more consistent than her good ones in the New 52, and the good ones aren't even that good, to begin with...if the 2 fought, the Pre-52 one, would fart the New 52 one, out of existence.

@bat_girl_cc:

I know the difference,, I am saying we see bullet out of gun and then character reacts... I agree that cass has several but all I am saying is these characters have several themselves... Cap, iron fist, and dd having the most that I can think of right off the top of my head.. I mean technically bats has several too but I can't tell you how consistent they are as I don't read him near as much as I did 10 years ago...

The only thing I have seen out of shiva so far is a flash back sequence in which she beat batman and I think grayson?? I can't remember... Her and deathstroke were always my favorite characters in dc.. I really need to get back into my dc comics... I did just read volume 4 of Green arrow and it was amazing... Lemire done him justice...

Again. I'm not an idiot. I understand the difference. Jason has bullet timed.

Can you show me some scans, or give me the issue number when it happened, though?

Because, i'm fairly certain, that i remember seeing him aim-dodging bullets in the New 52 like 3 times or so, but never actually bullet-dodging.

1) several? i have never seen them, then...i have seen a few from each of those, but the thing is, they have so many apparences, that its very hard, for me to consider it standard for them, to do it.

2) Yes, she beat Batman (Bruce Wayne) and Robin (Dick Grayson) on Nightwing #0 - Perpetual Motion and she beat Nightwing (Dick Grayson) on Nightwing #14 - Die for Me

3) Agreed.

Jason Todd.

@bat_girl_cc I found this, it proves my argument.

@allstarsuperman: IDEK how old ur comment is but like now:

Cassie can dodge and disarm the all blades, dodge the tasers and would curb stomp him due to superior everything except of like strength or maybe marksmanship

@hys: he literally tagged her with a taser crowbar like within the last 3 months

@allstarsuperman: lmao

Cassie wankers never cease to amaze me

@allstarsuperman: ok fine, big deal. Jason isn’t close to cass’s level and she would end him in a span of minutes

@hys: but that’s not what happen in the comic

@allstarsuperman: Never said it did. Did Jason win that battle? Idk the comics name so pls tell me. Also basing Cass of all feats and story, she beats Jason with low-diff or no-diff

@advent_: The only who is gonna be crying is Jason after facing a bitter defeat

@advent_: Still didn’t see him beating her

@advent_: @advent_: Plus, I am 100% sure that she could’ve easily blocked and countered that hit

@hys: Bruh he tagged her and literally is choking her out by the next and she gets saved from outside help.

If anything this shows they're peers

@advent_: And he was bloodlusted, and she was holding back. Bloodlusted cass would’ve handed him his ass

Jason was fighting Nightwing, Cass, and Tim at the same time. All the while trying to slip something to one of his partners. This is without his main weapons btw, he's given up guns for a while.

Add to it Jason was the only member to actually put up a decent fight against Cass, granted she was holding back, but we know Jason holds back as well, especially in recent years. It may sound like wank, but i'd argue he could take it given what we've seen.

That scans dated tbh. We've seen better feats for Jason (Which makes me the happiest man alive.) Jason legit almost beat Nightwing, Robin, and Cass. Bruce and Cass admitted he was stalling, he mocked Tim, and knocked Cass out for a minute with his crowbars.

Honestly wish there was more Jason vs Batfamily members. He would likely beat most of them, in fact if I were to list the members based off skill Jason would be tied with Dick. Its fun to watch those moments.

@chris2kzombieki: I honestly don’t think jason is bad at all. May seem like it, but I just think that he isn’t on par with fighters like Cass, Black Canary, Shiva, Batman (almost), Dick (Tied), Catwoman, Cheshire etc