Red Hood (Batman:Arkham Knight) Vs Captain America (MCU)

Seriously dude? That is your argument? It is usually agreed on just about ANY forum you go to that Cap is Superior to Batman, not the other way around. Even most of the diehard Batman fans say that it is even. Then you have the fact that they are 10 meters apart on a rooftop, he isn't disappearing from anything at that range.

@theamazingbatman:

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Red Hood wins. He can just shoot Cap.

@captain_batman_ftw said:

@theamazingbatman:

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Red Hood wins. He can just shoot Cap.

Sure, he can shoot a guy with a shield that blocks the shots of high powered machine guns like they are nothing. He can shoot a guy that is fast enough to dodge or block shots from high powered machine guns like nothing. *eyeroll*

@captain_batman_ftw said:

@theamazingbatman:

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Red Hood wins. He can just shoot Cap.

Be honest. You stole them :P

@monsterstomp: I originally did :P don't judge me :P But I remembered that I read the comic years ago when I was an Arkham fanatic. I read through Arkham Unhinged again and I found it in Arkham Unhinged #47. :P There are better strenght feats for Batman, though. Both striking and showing raw strenght.

@randomsid: Oh for Christ sake, didn't you think I knew about his shield? Jason is a great marksman, according to his bio, so he can just exploit the open spots like Winter Soldier did. It only takes common sense to understand that the shield doesn't cover Cap's entire body. ;)

Jason doesn't even need to shoot him, he can just use his strenght to take him out. Jason was able to resist Batman's strenght, which shows that he will have no trouble overpowering Captain America.

Cap doesn't have strenght good enough to match Arkham Batman's, so the fact that Jason is able to, shows us that Jason will have no trouble overpowering Cap through sheer strenght.

@captain_batman_ftw: Lol. Na I don't mind :) I think I'm done debating for Batman for a while.

No, someone who is faster and has a gun would always win against a human, he would just tangle Captain then blow his head off with his gun

Jason is stronger than Cap, he's faster and has guns. What's there to argue?

What are you smoking? Winter Soldier never shot Cap past his shield. And the shield doesn't have to cover the entire body when you have plenty of reaction feats of bringing it to the right place to block so many different things. No way in hell Red Hood is stronger than Captain America, did you miss the part about Captain America taking down a Quinjet with nothing but himself and his shield? Or perhaps you missed the part about flipping a motorcycle over his body? And really? That is the clip you showed of Red Hood overpowering Batman? He didn't overpower him at all, all he did was push him away for half a second so he could escape. That is very unimpressive compared to what MCU Cap has done. Of all the MCU characters, Captain America has come the closest to what he really is in the comics, including speed by running down a car. I can't seem to find the scene on youtube right now, but when he first becomes Captain America and doesn't even know anything about his newfound abilities he chases down the car the Hydra agent is fleeing in. Sorry, but nothing in any of the vid's posted for Red Hood come close to matching what MCU Cap has done.

@randomsid:

What are you smoking? Winter Soldier never shot Cap past his shield.

Are you delusional, or are you just ignoring the fact that the Winter Soldier clearly shot Cap at the beginning of their last fight?

And the shield doesn't have to cover the entire body when you have plenty of reaction feats of bringing it to the right place to block so many different things

I'd love to see Cap deflect multiple bullets aimed at different parts of his body at the same time. Oh wait, I forgot, he's not fast enough to simultaneously block bullets from different directions. Not even comic Cap has one that, let alone MCU Cap.

No way in hell Red Hood is stronger than Captain America, did you miss the part about Captain America taking down a Quinjet with nothing but himself and his shield? Or perhaps you missed the part about flipping a motorcycle over his body?

Jason stalemated Batman in raw strenght, and in comparison, MCU Cap isn't even half as strong as Arkham Batman. Let's compare: Batman near-effortlessly dragged up a car whereas MCU Cap failed to hold up, I repeat, HOLD UP, a car. Not to mention that the car he barely held up was smaller than the car Batman near-effortlessly dragged up. So the fact that Jason stalemated Batman in strenght proves that Jason is stronger than MCU Cap. Not to mention that Batman is stronger in Batman Arkham Knight than what he was a little before Arkham City.

He didn't overpower him at all, all he did was push him away for half a second so he could escape.

You shouldn't be posting on Comicvine while you're high. You shouldn't do it on any places, because it will make you look like a troll or that you're just stupid - like you did here. Watch from that point again, and try to count this time, so you can actually get to see that it was for multiple seconds (10 seconds). Honestly, this part just made me believe that you either didn't watch the video and/or that you're just a troll. According to you, 10 seconds = half a second. If you in all honesty believe that it was half a second, then I recommen that you don't waste any time trying to convince anyone with common sense.

I can't seem to find the scene on youtube right now, but when he first becomes Captain America and doesn't even know anything about his newfound abilities he chases down the car the Hydra agent is fleeing in.

I've seen it.

Sorry, but nothing in any of the vid's posted for Red Hood come close to matching what MCU Cap has done.

That's because you're intelligent enough to believe that Jason held Batman for half a second only. Don't let me stop you, though. ;)

I'm gonna say red hood

@captain_batman_ftw said:

@theamazingbatman:

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Red Hood wins. He can just shoot Cap.

Thanks for the scans .

Btw , is batman lifting the car with one hand in the last scan ??

Jason should win because of his combat speed, skill and gear. Plus he could always drop a smoke bomb and disappear and use stealth. He was on a gargoyle with Batman and simply hopped off, used a smoke bomb and we didn't even see him hit the ground.

Its agreed that Comic Cap is superior to Comic Batman . Its never agreed that MCU Cap is superior to Arkham Batman . Infact , if you go to the MCU cap vs Batman thread , you would see that many people are saying that Batman simply stomps . Arkham Batman >>> MCU Cap .

And captain_batman_ftw's video shows that 10 meters are more than enough for Jason to dissapear .

@randomsid:

I actually did miss that one, or forgot about it, either way. But, you also leave out that there was a massive amount of context in that fight. First, Cap didn't even want to fight Winter Soldier, it was his friend Bucky from before he became Captain America. Second, his main objective wasn't to beat Winter Soldier but to get that chip. Third, it was barely a glancing shot, didn't slow Cap down at all.

That's not even true. I'm aware of that, and it doesn't change the fact that Cap clearly tried to block the bullets. None of the other stuff you said really matters, because Cap tried to block the bullets right there and then.

I believe he has done that both in the comics and in the movies, but I'm too tired to actually look up scenes right now.

I've watched every single MCU movie Cap has featured in and not once did I see that Cap simultaneously blocked bullets from different directions.

What car did Cap fail to hold up? It has been a while since I've seen the movies so I don't remember that at all

Note that Cap was struggling and he didn't even drag up a call smaller than the one Batman easily dragged up.

Here's Batman dragging up a car:

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This is from Batman Arkham Unhinged #47, an Arkham City tie-in, in case you don't believe me. It's pretty obvious that Arkham Batman is marginally stronger than MCU Cap.

And again, Jason did NOT stalemate, or overpower Batman in that scene you posted before. All he did was push him back, something weaker people do all the time in a fight.

Not? you didn't see that Batman attempted to hit Jason, but Jason countered his hit and made Batman's strenght a non-factor in the confrontation? You didn't see that they had each other in a strenght stalemate for 9 seconds?

Really? You are counting the choking part as "stalemating" Batman's strength in that scene? Are you delusional? It doesn't take the same amount of strength as someone else to choke hold them at all. The neck is one of the weakest parts of the body. I could choke hold someone twice as strong as me for 10 seconds, wouldn't mean I was stronger than them at all.

LOL. Batman's neck is durable as hell. For example in Arkham City, one of the Abrahamovic twins could bust through concrete with his arm as if was nothing, then he held Batman by his neck and tossed him over 20 feets away. The fact that Jason and Batman held each other at a point like that, proves that Jason is stronger than Cap.

You could, but that doesn't mean you would. Besides, didn't you see when Batman attempted to hit Jason, but Jason COUNTERED IT and dismantled Batman of his strenght, leaving Batman unable to do anything? You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that Jason proved to be capable of stalemating Batman when it comes to strenght. That's no surprise, though, considering that Jason has undergone tough physical training, (both from Batman and his own military training) weighs 200lbs and is as tall as Batman.

You can say whatever you want, but Sefton Hill (the game's director) has said that the Arkham Knight (Jason Todd) is someone who's capable of going up against Batman physically and give him a challenge. That alone proves that Jason Todd > MCU Cap. If you want to argue with the fact that Jason is someone that is not capable of doing stuff like that, then I suggest you take it to Sefton Hill. ;)

That's not the only strenght feat he got that shows that he is stronger than Cap, there's' also the one where he stunned Batman with a superman punch. Something Cap is not capable of. Even MCU Cap's best punch wouldn't do something like that to Arkham Batman. (I can provide evidence for that if you want to)

That feat alone proves that Jason is more than capable of taking out Cap in one or two hit. I'll be generous and say four hits.

Then you should know that Cap is significantly faster than Red Hood, and in that scene he wasn't wearing shoes either. It's much easier to run faster while wearing shoes than it is while not wearing shoes on most surfaces(streets included). Just pointing that out.

I honestly hope that you're just joking with this part. Apparantly, if you're able to run much faster than what your opponent can, then you're much faster combat wise. I guess Usain Bolt is faster than Jason Todd when it comes to combat as well. :/ That's if we go by your logic. Jason has already proved to be faster than Cap. He did that by being Arkham Batman's physical equal. Not to mention that he dodged bullets without putting much effort into it:

It literally said ''dodge bullet', so don't try and make up some stupid sh*t. Besides, the fact that Jason is able to counter Arkham Batman should prove that Jason if faster.

And you are "intelligent" enough to see Red Hood choke holding Batman as him overpowering him. Don't let me stop you though.

You didn't see that Jason countered Batman's hit and then it ended in a stalemate, until Jason was the one to push away Batman? Guess you probably ignored that.

It is usually agreed on just about ANY forum you go to that Cap is Superior to Batman, not the other way around

Do you honestly believe that MCU Cap is physically superior to Arkham Batman?

@captain_batman_ftw

You just said that Jason = Batman in strength + Jason > Batman in speed ( Since Jason can dodge bullets , and batman can not ) and since Jason as Arkham Knight has better armour and tech than Batman , and knew everything about the batman ( like weak spots in his armour , his gadgets and his fighting style ) , how was he no match for bruce in the Batman vs Arkham Knight boss fight? How did batman so easily defeat him when Jason was superior in almost everything + had several turrets and minions and some kind of gas to defeat batman + had no morals , and was willing to kill batman ??

How was he defeated by batman who was in morals , didn't want to kill him (infact , he didn't even want to fight him) , was outnumbered , was inferior in tech to Jason etc ?

@theamazingbatman: Arkham Batman > Jason in speed, as it was clearly shown in their last fight.

How was he defeated by batman who was in morals , didn't want to kill him (infact , he didn't even want to fight him) , was outnumbered , was inferior in tech to Jason etc ?

That was because Jason f-ed up the plans he had with Scarecrow and let his emotions come in front of his judgement. Plus, Batman became serious at that point. He's always serious, but he became serious in the way where he wanted to end it there and then.

Since Jason can dodge bullets , and batman can not

Arkham Batman has dodged bullets several times.

Can you post some video or scans of batman dodging bullets? It's been a while since I played the games .

+ I remember batman getting shot several times and being unable to dodge them .

@theamazingbatman: I'll get it later. A little busy right now.

I don't know about strength, but Jason definitely holds every other advantage.

Okay , + can you plz get some Arkham batman striking feats? ( Besides the croc feat )

@captain_batman_ftw: The posts are getting too long so instead of quoting everything I will reply to it individually here.

What is not even true? At that point in the movie he knew exactly who Winter Soldier was and he didn't want to hurt him. And yes, context is ALWAYS important because it shows that though they are normally capable of something, something else(be it emotions like with Cap and Winter Soldier, or with Red Hood that you claim in another post dealing with Red Hood vs Batman) stops them from doing it.

So let me get this straight, you use a video of Cap grabbing a car that is falling off the bridge, stopping it the second he grabs it, and it only falls cause the back bumper rips off as an example of him struggling with it? There is nothing in that video to suggest he struggled at all. The bumper rips off within about 3 seconds. Then you use scans(not sure how relevant they are since we are talking about a game) to show Batman lifting a car using a grapple and using the building as a lever(which if you took any science class whatsoever, you would know reduces the weight of the object being lifted significantly). That isn't impressive and it is simply you distorting the facts.

And no, just no. Red Hood did NOT stop Batmans hit. Batman put his choke on the Red Hood and Red Hood responded by putting a choke on Batman. Once again, putting someone in a choke does NOT show that you are stronger than that person in any way.

And being tossed by his neck doesn't equate to having a super durable neck. Where are you getting this deluded crap? The fact that Jason simply put Batman in a choke doesn't prove anything about his strength. If he was really stronger he would have picked up and threw Batman, he didn't.

I'm actually not arguing that Jason can't go up against Batman and give him a challenge(that doesn't equate to being stronger though), but MCU Cap could do the same thing easily. So wait, you claim that Jason stunned Batman with a Superman Punch and then claim that Cap would not be capable of this? What are you going by? That is pure speculation and is false as humanly possible especially considering the fact that Jason was falling from what seems to be a pretty large height to do it, which again if you have taken any science class you would know that would add to the damage done by the punch.

You are funny, the speed thing is showing that Cap can outrun Jason easily. I've already showed that he is fast enough to dodge or block anything Jason throws at him with the plethora of times he blocked everything thrown at him during the movies. Nothing you have shown suggests that Jason has better reactions than MCU Cap.

You've already shown that scene and it's already been explained that one, it's game mechanics, two, there is clearly a laser sight for the player to see that allows him to dodge it, three, he moved before the gun was fired. Don't try to use that as dodging bullets when it is clearly aim dodging, no matter what the screen says.

We have already discussed this part, putting someone in a choke hold is not showing any kind of superior strength.

And so far, nothing I've seen of Arkham Batman has shown to be better than MCU Cap. More skilled, possibly, better physicals, nope.

@randomsid: Cap was struggling a lot to lift the car . Just look at his face and you'll know how hard it was for him to hold that car

+ Batman in that scan is not using the building as leverage and he is using only one hand to lift the car . ( Look at the scan carefully )

And Jason did counter one of batman's attack in that video .

There is nothing in the video to show that he was struggling with the car. You are placing what you want to see there. He stops the car the second he grabs it, it pans to the person in the car, it pans back to him and the bumper rips off. That's it.

Batman is clearly using the building as leverage. Perhaps you should study the scans again, the very last one clearly shows it.

That's your big argument? Because he was able to block one attack he is better? I could easily upload video's of MCU Cap blocking two attacks and say that makes him better. Sorry, but your vid doesn't work to show what you want it to show. All it shows is two people fighting, and they both put each other in a choke, that isn't exceptional strength at all.

Oh yeah , you are right . There is nothing in the video to suggest that he was struggling .................. except for this :

Don't tell me that you don't / didn't see Cap's expression while holding the car .

Cap's face clearly shows that he is barely holding the car .

Carefully see this image .

He isn't using the building as leverage + he is using only one arm + not struggling .

That alone is enough to prove that Arkham batman is way too much stronger than MCU cap .

And I never said that Jason was better . I am saying that his strength is very close to that of bats .

If you are saying that the countering and choking doesn't mean anything and it doesn't prove that the arkham knight is strong , then why don't the thugs do it ??

Any guy with less strength than the Arkham Knight e.g a thug wouldn't have choked batman and would have been stomped if he was in arkham Knight's place .

@randomsid: Okay, okay, I'm not interested in insulting you, just FIY. Before I make my rebuttal to what you just said, I'd like to propose a CaV offer where I use Arkham Bats and you MCU Cap. Only if you're interested and confident that Cap will prove to be Arkham Batman's physical superior. Are you or not? I'm asking you this because I want to take the MCU Cap vs Arkham Batman debate to another thread, since it would be irrelevant to debate that here.

I really want to do it, because I want to prove the misconception of MCU Cap being on Arkham Batman's level, let alone superior. Are you in for it?

Jason would definitely win. He gave bats a run for his money in the game, and he's too trained. Cap lost to WS, too.

I agree that Jason would win .................. but Cap never lost to Bucky .

Good idea .

@theamazingbatman: Really? You can clearly see the "cord" that is holding the car being leveraged on the roof of the building. Are you that blind?

I've never done a CaV before and I doubt I would have time to do it properly. Usually I work 12 hours a day, this just happens to be one of my rare days off work. That is why it takes me so long to respond normally. If, at sometime in the future, my work slows down then I'll consider it. But right now I'm just too busy for it.

@randomsid:

What is not even true? At that point in the movie he knew exactly who Winter Soldier was and he didn't want to hurt him. And yes, context is ALWAYS important because it shows that though they are normally capable of something, something else(be it emotions like with Cap and Winter Soldier, or with Red Hood that you claim in another post dealing with Red Hood vs Batman) stops them from doing it.

Cap tried to dodge the bullets. He tried to counter every hit Bucky tried to land, so what you're saying is true, but not in the way that it affected Cap to not fight against Bucky. That happened at the end of the fight when Cap didn't want to fight no more. When he thought that Bucky still remembered who he was. What you're saying doesn't matter, because Cap clearly tried to block and attack them.

So let me get this straight, you use a video of Cap grabbing a car that is falling off the bridge, stopping it the second he grabs it, and it only falls cause the back bumper rips off as an example of him struggling with it? There is nothing in that video to suggest he struggled at all. The bumper rips off within about 3 seconds.

No, the thing is, Cap didn't even manage to pull up the car, the car was just there at that one point because Cap doulcn't even lift it, and then the bumper fell off. Here, watch it again:

He couldn't even pull up the car in the slightest.

Then you use scans(not sure how relevant they are since we are talking about a game) to show Batman lifting a car using a grapple and using the building as a lever(which if you took any science class whatsoever, you would know reduces the weight of the object being lifted significantly). That isn't impressive and it is simply you distorting the facts.

The scans are from Batman Arkham Unhinged #47. It's an Arkham City tie-tin. It does, but the fact that he lifted it with ease literally proves my point that he is marginally stronger than Cap. That feat very easily makes him a two-tonner. Also, Cap used the bridge as a lever as well.

And no, just no. Red Hood did NOT stop Batmans hit. Batman put his choke on the Red Hood and Red Hood responded by putting a choke on Batman. Once again, putting someone in a choke does NOT show that you are stronger than that person in any way.

Okay, okay, I'm getting tired of telling you this. Go back and check the video. Have you watched it again? Good, now tell me, was Batman the one who tried to land the first hit but got countered? Yes, he did. Here it is:

Did Jason not counter to of Batman's hits and then dismantle Batman his strenght? Yes he did.

And being tossed by his neck doesn't equate to having a super durable neck. Where are you getting this deluded crap? The fact that Jason simply put Batman in a choke doesn't prove anything about his strength. If he was really stronger he would have picked up and threw Batman, he didn't.

LOL, that wasn't even my point. My point was that someone who can easily bust through concrete held Batman by his neck, but Batman was fine. Jason actually made it so it was hard for Batman to breath. Besides, I've gotten through mye point about them stalemating each other through strenght, because they actually did. If Batman was that much stronger, don't you think he would have tossed Jason away? He would have used Jason as a rag doll just like he did against Hush:

Do you know why none of them managed to do that against each other? Because they're equally strong and it ended in a stalemate. Get over it. BTW, Hush weighs 210lbs whereas Jason weighs 200lbs, so keep in mind that Batman couldn't toss Jason or pick him up was because Jason was as strong.

I'm actually not arguing that Jason can't go up against Batman and give him a challenge(that doesn't equate to being stronger though), but MCU Cap could do the same thing easily

MCU Cap would get his soul slapped to another dimension if he even thought of going up against Arkham Batman.

So wait, you claim that Jason stunned Batman with a Superman Punch and then claim that Cap would not be capable of this? What are you going by?

Oh, I'm so glad you asked. I'm saying that because Batman's been able to tank hits from Bane and continue with some pain, but still being as efficient as before:

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And Bane is well above 10 tons when it comes to strenght. (I can provide evidence if you want to) The fact that Jason stunned someone like that proves that Jason is physically stronger than MCU Cap. Still, that's no surprise, though, considering that a peak human in the Arkhamverse is many times stronger than MCU Cap. Jason is stronger than Cap, but I don't no why you're denying that when there's evidence right in front of you.

That is pure speculation and is false as humanly possible especially considering the fact that Jason was falling from what seems to be a pretty large height to do it, which again if you have taken any science class you would know that would add to the damage done by the punch.

No shit, Sherlock. Thanks for sharing that information, as if I didn't know about it -_- I'm aware of what I said, but that doesn't change that, that feat proves that Jason has more raw strenght than MCU Captain America. MCU Captain America wouldn't be able to do something like that to Arkham Batman. No way, and I gave you one incident which proves Batman's durability, so don't try and make up some stupid bullshit about MCU Cap being able to stun someone who can tank hits from a 10+ tonner. There are plenty more durability feats that shows that MCU Cap wouldn't be able to even stun Arkham Batman, let alone do good against Arkham Batman. I can post them if you want to, because you seem to believe that MCU Cap is physically stronger than Arkham Batman, so I don't think you'r every knowledgable when it comes to the Arkhamverse. This isn't meant to offend you, BTW.

You are funny, the speed thing is showing that Cap can outrun Jason easily

So they are going to run in this match? Oh well, better take a seat so we can watch Cap run to the finish line -_-

. I've already showed that he is fast enough to dodge or block anything Jason throws at him with the plethora of times he blocked everything thrown at him during the movies

No, you have not. I asked you to show me an incident where Cap simultaneously blocks bullets coming from different directions, but you haven't even done that. The only thing Cap really does to 'block' bullets, is to keep his shield at one point all the time. Not even 616 Cap has reaction time good enough to block bullets coming from different directions at the same time. You've failed to show me that.

Nothing you have shown suggests that Jason has better reactions than MCU Cap.

Except dodging bullets without much effort and being Arkham Batman's physically equal....

You've already shown that scene and it's already been explained that one, it's game mechanics, two, there is clearly a laser sight for the player to see that allows him to dodge it, three, he moved before the gun was fired. Don't try to use that as dodging bullets when it is clearly aim dodging, no matter what the screen says.

LOL. That isn't game mechanics. That's canon to the game. Where are you getting that from? Look, there's nothing to argue about, it clearly says ''Dodge bullet''. It's not up to debate.

And so far, nothing I've seen of Arkham Batman has shown to be better than MCU Cap. More skilled, possibly, better physicals, nope.

Oh for Christ sake...

Red Hood kills him :p

Poor Cap

Red Hood.

@panzeera_king: MCU Cap is Superhuman. he could kill Jason in one punch. Winter soldier had a gun but still lost so your argument is invalid

just that red hood is faster than winter soldier.

In a straight up fight MCU Cap will win. If Jason uses grappling hook, stealth, flash bangs, and his pistols widely he can cheat a win out of this.

@panzeera_king: Red hood is in no way faster than the winter soldier. Bucky is enhanced like Cap. The only advantage Jason has is his guns which will all be blocked by Caps shield. Cap is seen Ripping a Log in half with ease in AOU Which puts him in the superhuman range. One punch and Jason would be dead or on the floor crying.

Have you even played or seen gameplay from Arkham knight? Red hood is a bullet timer, Winter Soldier had no such feats, his best one is reacting to a shield throw from Captain which doesn't put him close to Jason's league of reaction speed.

Yeah I have seen AoU on cinema, i remember that scene and it didn't look like with ease, he made an expression on his face which likewise makes it look like he put effort in it. Some powerlifters should be able to do the same with a little more effort. One punch won't finish Jason, and he won't just stand there and take a blow. Jason would be faster and just blow Captain's head off.

@panzeera_king: No power lifter could rip a log in half of that size. If you really think that then you are a little slow. Did you miss the part where the Winter soldier dodged Falcons fully automatic fire? And if Jason can somehow dodge a bullet without having any kind of enhancements is just plain stupid. If you think that a human's reaction time is faster than a enhanced human's reaction time then you are clearly biased towards Red hood.

@theamazingbatman: Cap

@enator564:

Actually they could, he did it with the grain so it's not that hard.

WS did no such thing

It's called a game?

I do t think it's fair to dismiss the bullet evading as game mechanics, that particular option was added specifically for this combat environment with every intention of having the player utilise it to evade the gunfire - this quite clearly, to me at least, suggests that Jason was intended to be portrayed as capable of at the very least aim doding.

This would be a slaughter.