#1 Edited by Joygirl (20156 posts) - - Show Bio

Raven

vs.

Juggernaut

--------------------------

- 2 hours prep

- In character

- Pre-52 Raven

- Classic Juggernaut

- Location: Asgard

- No outside help

Always been curious on this one. Juggernaut is pretty tough to stop, but Raven can do a hell of a lot of stuff. So, let's see what you guys think.

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For more of my battle threads, click here!

#2 Posted by Outside_85 (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

Teleporting him off a short cliff was the only thing I'd think she could do to stop him, everything else is more or less blocked by the helmet unless she resorts to tactics that only the Hulk seems to have grasped...unlike the rest of Marvel.

#3 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl: If Juggernaut decided on using his magical powers to fly, teleport, shoot magical beams and cast spells, he could beat her really easily. But let's go by in-character, where Juggernaut just like to run things over just for the fun it. There's really nothing she can do unless she can somehow manage to take off his helmet. But let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she could. Yes, she can put him to sleep or something using her empathetic powers.
#4 Edited by karrob (4283 posts) - - Show Bio

NO BFR??? Then Juggernaut stomps...Unless this is the evil raven...

#5 Posted by Joygirl (20156 posts) - - Show Bio

Iiiintelesting. Do you think she could get his helmet off before she gets flattened, or at least evade him? Although, Juggernaut may not be too bright but he tends to rise to a challenge, using his other powers to even the odds (i.e. his forcefield/momentum sapping against Thor, his swimmy/fly-y thing against the girl who tried to lift him in the air, etc.).

#6 Posted by Outside_85 (9977 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl: If it was that easy, Jean wouldn't have had any problems with him.
#7 Posted by Nefarious (21959 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut wins.

#8 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut is actually pretty smart. He was the rival of Charles Xavier before Magneto. Juggernaut learned how to use spells and that takes some kind of understanding. Anyway, Let's say she gained her full power of Trigon. She would be able to play ping pong with Juggernaut. But like I said, If Juggernaut doesn't play jobber, he would still be able to fight against her with ease. 
 
 This is a scan of Juggernaut fighting Nightmare. In this comic. Nightmare leagues and beyond the power level of Mephisto. 
 

    
  
And that's just normal Classic Juggernaut. Just imagine 8th Day Juggernaut more powerful and more resilient to emathic and telepathic assaults.
#9 Posted by Outside_85 (9977 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
Juggernaut is actually pretty smart. He was the rival of Charles Xavier before Magneto. Juggernaut learned how to use spells and that takes some kind of understanding. Anyway, Let's say she gained her full power of Trigon. She would be able to play ping pong with Juggernaut. But like I said, If Juggernaut doesn't play jobber, he would still be able to fight against her with ease. 
 
 This is a scan of Juggernaut fighting Nightmare. In this comic. Nightmare leagues and beyond the power level of Mephisto. 
 
    
  And that's just normal Classic Juggernaut. Just imagine 8th Day Juggernaut more powerful and more resilient to emathic and telepathic assaults.
Sadly you highlight one of the problems with Juggs...hes simply too powerful; you cant beat him physically because of the unstoppable momentum powers, you cant get to him mentally because of this 'magic' helmet, you can barely get to him magically since he is backed by some N'th level magical entity that kicks the red out of just about anyone else. Added that, again, only Hulk appears to have been smart enough to turn his own momentum against him, everyone tries to lock horns with him like a bull would take on a locomotive...
#10 Posted by Joygirl (20156 posts) - - Show Bio

Raven's pretty up there as far as power goes too, though. What about her intangibility/teleportation/soul self/magic etc? Or is this fight really that lopsided? If so I apologize. o.o

#11 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

@tron_bonne said:
Juggernaut is actually pretty smart. He was the rival of Charles Xavier before Magneto. Juggernaut learned how to use spells and that takes some kind of understanding. Anyway, Let's say she gained her full power of Trigon. She would be able to play ping pong with Juggernaut. But like I said, If Juggernaut doesn't play jobber, he would still be able to fight against her with ease.

This is a scan of Juggernaut fighting Nightmare. In this comic. Nightmare leagues and beyond the power level of Mephisto.


And that's just normal Classic Juggernaut. Just imagine 8th Day Juggernaut more powerful and more resilient to emathic and telepathic assaults.
Sadly you highlight one of the problems with Juggs...hes simply too powerful; you cant beat him physically because of the unstoppable momentum powers, you cant get to him mentally because of this 'magic' helmet, you can barely get to him magically since he is backed by some N'th level magical entity that kicks the red out of just about anyone else. Added that, again, only Hulk appears to have been smart enough to turn his own momentum against him, everyone tries to lock horns with him like a bull would take on a locomotive...

the hulk usually wins by leaving.

#12 Posted by Outside_85 (9977 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl: I'm inclined to say it is pretty unlikely Raven can make much of a impact in this fight, intangibility only helps her stay around, it wont help her beat him, same with teleportation as long as she cant take him with her, her soul-self and magic is going to struggle against his natural defences against both. Like her empathy is a psionic power and will most likely get blocked by the helmet that usually keeps Xavier out of Cain's head.
#13 Posted by bunnieswithtophats (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: couldn't intangibility help her remove his helmet?

#14 Posted by TifaLockhart (14119 posts) - - Show Bio

Couldn't she phase attack him like the Vision did?

And as an aside, the general populace of Marvel Earth haven't learned that making Hulk mad is a bad move. To be fair though, DC characters are fooled by Clark Kent's disguise.

#15 Posted by Outside_85 (9977 posts) - - Show Bio
@bunnieswithtophats: Not likely as she's only been seen phasing herself at the best of times, its never been shown that she could phase objects like that.
#16 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@bunnieswithtophats said:

@Outside_85: couldn't intangibility help her remove his helmet?

It won't work.  
 
#17 Posted by Joygirl (20156 posts) - - Show Bio

Tentative bump

#18 Posted by wolverinethesoldier (91 posts) - - Show Bio

Jug wins this fight

#19 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut.

#20 Posted by Joygirl (20156 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Edited by Joygirl (20156 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#22 Posted by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@wolverinethesoldier: @thundergodswrath:

There's nothing she can do? Go intangible, TK his helmet off, empathy on his mind, soul-self to avoid him? Or is he truly that unstoppable?

@bunnieswithtophats

said:

@Outside_85: couldn't intangibility help her remove his helmet?

It won't work.

Juggernaut ;)

#23 Posted by Joygirl (20156 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck:

Well poop.

I was really proud of this thread, too.

#24 Edited by Outside_85 (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@wolverinethesoldier: @thundergodswrath:

There's nothing she can do? Go intangible, TK his helmet off, empathy on his mind, soul-self to avoid him? Or is he truly that unstoppable?

Not as long as she can't BFR him. The helmet for instance, her teleportation powers dont work like those of Blink and Nightcrawler (not sure) that seems to generate edges that can cut through steel added the helmet can be regrown almost instantly by Cain if he remembers to do it (I know there's an old scan out there of the Savage Hulk ripping it off before hurling Cain at a mountain, which knocked him out).

If the New 52 version of Raven has received some kind of powerboost, remains to be seen, but the old one is not going to take it when she is in her own body (the fear of going four eyed held her back a lot). Without a body however, it is possible she could overwhelm Cain's defences as she, with help, was able to destroy a Spectre level being (Trigon) in that state. It's entirely likely that she could do something similar if she went all out demonic.

#25 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@wolverinethesoldier: @thundergodswrath:

There's nothing she can do? Go intangible, TK his helmet off, empathy on his mind, soul-self to avoid him? Or is he truly that unstoppable?

Not as long as she can't BFR him. The helmet for instance, her teleportation powers dont work like those of Blink and Nightcrawler (not sure) that seems to generate edges that can cut through steel added the helmet can be regrown almost instantly by Cain if he remembers to do it (I know there's an old scan out there of the Savage Hulk ripping it off before hurling Cain at a mountain, which knocked him out).

If the New 52 version of Raven has received some kind of powerboost, remains to be seen, but the old one is not going to take it when she is in her own body (the fear of going four eyed held her back a lot). Without a body however, it is possible she could overwhelm Cain's defences as she, with help, was able to destroy a Spectre level being (Trigon) in that state. It's entirely likely that she could do something similar if she went all out demonic.

Agreed, but when since was Trigon, Spectre level?

#26 Edited by Outside_85 (9977 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: Someone around here once posted a page from the old Swamp Thing comic around the time when COIE's was on the horizon. And the Monitor registered somekind of pulse of power and put it at 14 or something and saying that it meant it was either the Spectre or Trigon... Really wish I had that page :(

#27 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: Someone around here once posted a page from the old Swamp Thing comic around the time when COIE's was on the horizon. And the Monitor registered somekind of pulse of power and put it at 14 or something and saying that it meant it was either the Spectre or Trigon... Really wish I had that page :(

Oh, interesting.

#28 Edited by dondave (38809 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggs

#29 Posted by JediXMan (31250 posts) - - Show Bio

I think she might be able to BFR him, but that's it.

Moderator
#30 Posted by eternalnature (364 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought his helmet prevented telepathy.

Ravens is an empath. A powerful one at that even Doc. Mid Night said so.

#31 Posted by chiq (1991 posts) - - Show Bio

Does new 52 Raven have any feats yet?

#32 Edited by dum529001 (1654 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's Juggy!!!