#1 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
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Jean Grey doesnot have the pheonix.  Who wins and why.
#2 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

A Mystic and A Mutant?

This is a tough one... I would have to go with Raven on this one. I know her level of mysticism is at par capable of  total world destruction

#3 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are they fighting? They should be having a pillow fight... or maybe just kissing? :]

#4 Posted by divingfalcon713 (282 posts) - - Show Bio

I think im gonna have to go with Raven.  I mean, she could just like send jean to another dimension couldn't she?

#5 Edited by Vance Astro (91238 posts) - - Show Bio
divingfalcon713 said:
"

I think im gonna have to go with Raven.  I mean, she could just like send jean to another dimension couldn't she?

"
Not before Jean turned her brain into a milkshake.This is the Phoenix were talking about..a reality manipulator which translates into "I can do what ever the f#ck I want".
Moderator
#6 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"divingfalcon713 said:
"

I think im gonna have to go with Raven.  I mean, she could just like send jean to another dimension couldn't she?

"
Not before Jean turned her brain into a milkshake.This is the Phoenix were talking about..a reality manipulator which translates into "I can do what ever the f#ck I want".
"

In my original post I said that jean grey dosenot have the pheonix.
#7 Posted by Vance Astro (91238 posts) - - Show Bio
brainiac 1.0 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"divingfalcon713 said:
"

I think im gonna have to go with Raven.  I mean, she could just like send jean to another dimension couldn't she?

"
Not before Jean turned her brain into a milkshake.This is the Phoenix were talking about..a reality manipulator which translates into "I can do what ever the f#ck I want".
"

In my original post I said that jean grey dosenot have the pheonix."

She still wins.
Moderator
#8 Posted by Vrakmul (23849 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Why are they fighting? They should be having a pillow fight... or maybe just kissing? :]"
You need to stop subscribing to lesbian magazines. 
#9 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
Dreadnaught said:
"erik said:
"Why are they fighting? They should be having a pillow fight... or maybe just kissing? :]"
You need to stop subscribing to lesbian magazines. 
"
lololololololololololololololololololololol
#10 Posted by Octagon Freak (11158 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm taking Jean Grey's side on this. She's still a pretty powerful telepath that could screw up Raven's mind pretty danged good. I'm sure Raven would give her hell though, it would be close.

#11 Posted by _Sojourn_ (19266 posts) - - Show Bio

There is absolutely no contest between the two, Phoenix would crush Raven, the only similarity it seems to me is that they both take the shape of birds. CURBSTOMP

#12 Posted by Meiriona (40 posts) - - Show Bio

Which version of Raven?We talking pre Trigon escape,  just the evil of Trigon's influence, golden body, white cloak, Blood revived, what? Girls gone through enough deaths and transformations...

#13 Posted by Gloom (3653 posts) - - Show Bio
Meiriona said:
"Which version of Raven?We talking pre Trigon escape,  just the evil of Trigon's influence, golden body, white cloak, Blood revived, what? Girl's gone through enough deaths and transformations...
"
I think your last statement applies to both contestants in this particular battle...

And I say Jean wins.
#14 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio
Dreadnaught said:
"erik said:
"Why are they fighting? They should be having a pillow fight... or maybe just kissing? :]"
You need to stop subscribing to lesbian magazines. 
"
lol. Yeah true.
#15 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else.

#16 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

Well looking at in a serious manner, I really think this would go to Jean. First of all, she has way more experience, secondly I understand that Raven has to be careful of her emotions. This is something that Jean can exploit. In addition, Jean's powers work at the speed of HER thought, which i can imagine is much faster than a normal humans.

#17 Posted by Desilation (14585 posts) - - Show Bio

raven absolutly

#18 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio
Desilation said:
"raven absolutly"

How? Please explain.
#19 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Soul self, baby.

80s Raven packed some major power.

There's nothing Jean can throw at it that can knock it down and Jean really really doesn't want to get in Raven's head.

#20 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Soul self, baby.

80s Raven packed some major power.

There's nothing Jean can throw at it that can knock it down and Jean really really doesn't want to get in Raven's head.
"

Yeah. There is nothing Jean can throw at Raven except she can make Raven forget how to use the soul self ability. Last time I checked, Raven is not immune to tele attacks.
#21 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

She's immune insomuch that he dad is ridiculously evil and she's generally screwed up in the head.  Her soul self is a manifestation of the part of her that is her father.  When Kid Flash touched it for too long, it made him hate Raven and almost killed him to boot.

Jean is not a particularly strong telepath and I imagine entering Raven's head will have more or less the same effect on Jean as if she was held in Raven's soul self for too long.  Bad idea.

#22 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean isn't a strong telepath? I'm sorry you are seriously mistaken. Her abilities rival Xavier. It has been said that her abilities may even surpass his. Where did you get your info that she isn't a powerful telepath? She can turn Emma's brain into jelly and Emma is a powerful telepath. That ability of Raven's doesn't do much good if her brain is altered to think she is a football qb for the Raiders.

#23 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Her abilities rival Xavier?  No, they really don't.
Xavier is a much more powerful telepath than Jean.  Emma is about the same.

And even Xavier is on the low end of telepaths.  I mean, when you compare him to Moondragon or Manchester Black or Doctor Psycho or even Exodus, he's a chump.  And there are tons of telepaths and magicians that can completely block out Xavier without even trying and Jean is weaker than him. 

And that doesn't even take into account that Jean has been mind controled herself several times in the past and goes crazy on a dime.  She flat out doesn't have the mental fortitude to take a peak inside Raven's head and try to mess with it.

#24 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

Xavier is still called the most powerful telepath. I don't think you even read X-men comics. Where are you getting your reference material, wikipedia? Jean doesn't have the mental fortitude? Again an ill informed statement. Jean is one of the few people in her universe that has the will and "mental fortitude" to handle the phoenix force. Emma tried and was nearly consumed by it. And you say Jean was controlled several times, tell me all of them. I very much doubt that there are as many as you make out to be unless you are speaking of the 60's. Lets just take into account Jean's telekinesis then. Jean could slice and dice Raven into so many pizzas. Jean is one of the most powerful mutants in her universe. Raven is just really skilled in the use of magic. She isn't even that universes most powerful magic weilder. I think you should research the X-men before you just throw a Raven win out there. I mean you really lost as soon as you tried to claim Emma as on Jean's level. Emma is a level 9 telepath, Xavier is most certainly not, neither is Jean.

#25 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Xavier is still called the most powerful telepath."
By who?  Xavier doesn't have half the ability of Manchester Black or Doctor Psycho.  He has trouble controling more than one mind at once.  Exodus can block Xavier's attacks while beating the hell out of the Avengers.  Moondragon and Enchantress have flat out made it where he couldn't read their thoughts or the thoughts of anyone on their respective teams.

Xavier is in the bottom 25% of comic book telepaths easily.  Jean is even lower.

And for your information, I've read X-Men comics for 16 years.

And for your information, Raven doesn't use magic at all and since you didn't know that, you obviously lack the capacity to judge this fight with any degree of accuracy.
Edit: Let me rephrase that last bit.  Raven doesn't wield magic.  She isn't a mage.  Her powers are magical in origin.  She uses magic like Captain Marvel uses magic.
#26 Posted by King Saturn (224219 posts) - - Show Bio
Phoenix should handle Raven rather well here...
#27 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Except as said in the opening post, Jean does not have the Phoenix.

TK and TP only, it would seem.

I agree that if she had her Phoenix powers, she'd make short work of Raven.

#28 Posted by King Saturn (224219 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Except as said in the opening post, Jean does not have the Phoenix.

TK and TP only, it would seem.

I agree that if she had her Phoenix powers, she'd make short work of Raven.
"
Ah I See... well it would be nice if we could have used an image without Jean Grey in a Phoenix costume... that threw me off a bit

lol
#29 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol. Have you read X-men Legacy? Xavier easily held his own against Exodus after having his own brain shot. His mind was shattered. Whenever they announce Xavier, they call him the the most powerful telepath. If you read the comics, you would know that. I have just as many years under my belt and I at least read the recent ones. Xavier has never been concidered a low telepath. NEVER. He would easily dust Emma without much thought. The simple fact that you would state that tells me you don't read X-men. I don't read Titans so, admittedly I don't know the full scope of Raven's powers. This very site states that one of her powers is magic. Now I do not know if she currently uses magic, but I am aware of when she did she wasn't the best. I do however, know X-men and you clearly don't.

#30 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"

Lol. Have you read X-men Legacy? Xavier easily held his own against Exodus after having his own brain shot. His mind was shattered. Whenever they announce Xavier, they call him the the most powerful telepath. If you read the comics, you would know that. I have just as many years under my belt and I at least read the recent ones. Xavier has never been concidered a low telepath. NEVER. He would easily dust Emma without much thought. The simple fact that you would state that tells me you don't read X-men. I don't read Titans so, admittedly I don't know the full scope of Raven's powers. This very site states that one of her powers is magic. Now I do not know if she currently uses magic, but I am aware of when she did she wasn't the best. I do however, know X-men and you clearly don't.

"
I admit to having not read X-Men Legacy.  I guess Xavier got stronger or Exodus got weaker (hope it's the former).

Still, I can point out an example of Exodus completely ignoring Xavier's metal attacks while on Genoshia and fighting the Avengers and the X-Men.

And it really doesn't matter that you think Xavier is the most powerful.  He doesn't have the range or power of all those other telepaths I listed.  I've read hundreds of comics with Xavier in them.  I've read dozens of comics with those other characters.  I can safely say that he is a weaker telepath.  I'm not going to accuse you but I'll ask you this.  Have you read a comic with Moondragon?  Manchester Black?  Doctor Psycho?  What basis do you have for saying Xavier is more powerful than them?

And as an aside I find it highly offensive that you sit here and tell me that I'm a moron because I've only read hundreds of comics with Xavier in them and how dare I say that he isn't the strongest telepath and yet at the same time, you obviously haven't read a single comic with Raven in it and yet you would tell me you know she would lose here.  You do understand how hypocritical that is don't you?

(And as an aside, I have to ask to myself "You just realized that somebody was being a hypocrite?  You do realize you're on the internet don't you?")
#31 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol where did you get me calling you a moron? I think it is silly that you gathered that from any one of my posts. If someone even distracts Moondragon, her powers fail. That being said, it is not impossible for Xavier to crush her. Lol Manchester is a DC character. If you want to compare the abilities of Xavier against Manchester, start a thread for it. I am aware of Doctor Psycho and I don't think that Xavier is gonna loose that one either. Jean would still liquify Raven's brain before she could use any of her current abilities. Jean has the power of thought.

#32 Posted by Ego (2324 posts) - - Show Bio

@ zoom & erik

xavier is considered to be the most powerful telepath in marvel earth only. anywhere beyond earth he is considered not as powerful a telepath. so if it comes to the entire marvel comics xavier is like the 10th through 20th most powerful.

#33 Posted by Ego (2324 posts) - - Show Bio

ego is a more powerful telepath than xavier. he's so powerful he can talk to the planets! xavier can not talk to planets.

#34 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"if someone even distracts Moondragon, her powers fail. That being said, it is not impossible for Xavier to crush her. Lol Manchester is a DC character. If you want to compare the abilities of Xavier against Manchester, start a thread for it. I am aware of Doctor Psycho and I don't think that Xavier is gonna loose that one either. Jean would still liquify Raven's brain before she could use any of her current abilities. Jean has the power of thought."
I just got a pretty funny image of Xavier in his wheelchair, waving his arms frantically, desperately trying to distract Moondragon.

I wasn't aware that we weren't counting DC characters.  I mean, considering this is a thread with a DC character as well and all.
#35 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

No Xavier does not have trouble controlling just one person. On two occasions that come to mind right away, he stopped riots without breaking a sweat.

#36 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol. Wow I allowed myself get distracted from the actual arguement. Jean destroys Raven. Lets use examples of when Raven smoked scary teles in her universe, by herself and we can build from there.

#37 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

About as often as Jean has smoked people who are practically possessed by demons with soul selfs....not very often.

#38 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok Zoom. Tell me how Raven would use her abilities on Jean without getting completely shut down. What is to stop Jean from dropping a something really heavy on Raven or running a tele-blade right through Raven's midsection?

#39 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Soul self.

I wish I had the scans but one of it's main things is blocking bullets, flying rubble, etc.

#40 Posted by Vance Astro (91238 posts) - - Show Bio
How do people always seem to make curbstomps 2 pages.
Moderator
#41 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"
How do people always seem to make curbstomps 2 pages.
"
I have no idea.

Magic
#42 Posted by Erik (32815 posts) - - Show Bio
brainiac 1.0 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"
How do people always seem to make curbstomps 2 pages.
"
I have no idea.

Magic
"

Ok. Brainiac 1.0. If you tell me I am wrong, I will admit defeat because I respect your opinion. I am putting my fate in your hands.
#43 Posted by Iukeenking (8 posts) - - Show Bio

This battle is retarded raven wins

#44 Posted by brainiac 1.0 (4150 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"brainiac 1.0 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"
How do people always seem to make curbstomps 2 pages.
"
I have no idea.

Magic
"

Ok. Brainiac 1.0. If you tell me I am wrong, I will admit defeat because I respect your opinion. I am putting my fate in your hands."

LOL.
#45 Posted by SeSAW (3677 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"erik said:
"Xavier is still called the most powerful telepath."
By who?  Xavier doesn't have half the ability of Manchester Black or Doctor Psycho.  He has trouble controling more than one mind at once.  Exodus can block Xavier's attacks while beating the hell out of the Avengers.  Moondragon and Enchantress have flat out made it where he couldn't read their thoughts or the thoughts of anyone on their respective teams.

Xavier is in the bottom 25% of comic book telepaths easily.  Jean is even lower.

And for your information, I've read X-Men comics for 16 years.

And for your information, Raven doesn't use magic at all and since you didn't know that, you obviously lack the capacity to judge this fight with any degree of accuracy.
Edit: Let me rephrase that last bit.  Raven doesn't wield magic.  She isn't a mage.  Her powers are magical in origin.  She uses magic like Captain Marvel uses magic.
"
Dude yes Xavier does he lobomized Magneto, and Magnetos helmet is TP proof, he turned him into a vegtable in seconds, also Xavier power is what mostly made up Onslaught, so hes a top tier on tp powers alone and jeans powers rival his, she held that entire ship together when it was attacked by the phoenix. 
#46 Posted by lukeenking (229 posts) - - Show Bio

raven cause jean grey would just die without the phoenix

#47 Posted by venom hybrid (2486 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure that Xavier has controlled like an entire planet or something on that level?

#48 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"Zoom said:
"erik said:
"Xavier is still called the most powerful telepath."
By who?  Xavier doesn't have half the ability of Manchester Black or Doctor Psycho.  He has trouble controling more than one mind at once.  Exodus can block Xavier's attacks while beating the hell out of the Avengers.  Moondragon and Enchantress have flat out made it where he couldn't read their thoughts or the thoughts of anyone on their respective teams.

Xavier is in the bottom 25% of comic book telepaths easily.  Jean is even lower.

And for your information, I've read X-Men comics for 16 years.

And for your information, Raven doesn't use magic at all and since you didn't know that, you obviously lack the capacity to judge this fight with any degree of accuracy.
Edit: Let me rephrase that last bit.  Raven doesn't wield magic.  She isn't a mage.  Her powers are magical in origin.  She uses magic like Captain Marvel uses magic.
"
Dude yes Xavier does he lobomized Magneto, and Magnetos helmet is TP proof, he turned him into a vegtable in seconds, also Xavier power is what mostly made up Onslaught, so hes a top tier on tp powers alone and jeans powers rival his, she held that entire ship together when it was attacked by the phoenix. 
"
Yeah, he lobotomized Magneto...when he wasn't wearing his freaking helmet.

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#49 Posted by SeSAW (3677 posts) - - Show Bio

Well i was wrong i am not afraid to admit when im wrong, i remembered incorrectly. But still Xaiver is a top tier on Tp alone and jean rivals him. Jean wins

#50 Posted by Vance Astro (91238 posts) - - Show Bio
Iukeenking said:
"This battle is retarded raven wins
"
No your retarded.Jean Grey wins.
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