#1 Posted by cmpunk4life (41 posts) - - Show Bio

It’s Magic Vs the Force as we take two of the most powerful characters from their respective universes and match them up. The scenario is that Vader is hunting Rand and they are dueling in a castle tower.this is debate going on at local comic store. any input would be awesome.

#2 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cmpunk4life: Rand Al'thor stomps Palpatine and Grand Master Luke Skywalker......

Dragon Reborn wins everyday.

#3 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: What can Rand Al'thor do again?

#4 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: As the Dragon he is basicaly the figure of power for the Creator of All (God in this case) and directs the futur to his path with his mere presence.

His magic called Weaving allows him to Instant Teleport everywhere, summon instant death Storms, Balefire (Erases you from existance), Death Gates, Hundreds to thousands of gateways that kind of work like Tele-dismemberment all around him, and can sunder planets......

Hes recoculas.

#5 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: What's the futur? You mean the future?

So he is omnipotent?

Because Luke can teleport (Fold Space), Palpatne can create storms that destroy (whatever number) (Force Storms), while they can't directly remove you from existence, death would be just as bad. Plagueis alone has literally atomized people around him while wounded, Luke and Palpatien can do much more. Sundering planets....... Palpatine can do that with Force Storms. Luke can manipulate Black Holes and has rooted himself in the Force so strongly that nothing can move him, even the Black Hole at the center of the galaxy.

Does that last part mean "he's reckless"?

Also, can he move at near-relativistic speeds, or at least react to that? If not, he simply gets destroyed before he can do anything.

#6 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@CadenceV2: What's the futur? You mean the future?

So he is omnipotent?

Because Luke can teleport (Fold Space), Palpatne can create storms that destroy (whatever number) (Force Storms), while they can't directly remove you from existence, death would be just as bad. Plagueis alone has literally atomized people around him while wounded, Luke and Palpatien can do much more. Sundering planets....... Palpatine can do that with Force Storms. Luke can manipulate Black Holes and has rooted himself in the Force so strongly that nothing can move him, even the Black Hole at the center of the galaxy.

Does that last part mean "he's reckless"?

Also, can he move at near-relativistic speeds, or at least react to that? If not, he simply gets destroyed before he can do anything.

He doesnt need to be. He sort of twist the many threads of the pattern (in this case Future) around him. Its like if you get near him it will work out his way. Sort of to say Luck Powers :)

Anyway he litrealy flies around everywhere once full Dragon on. He could be possibly Speed Blitz. Depends if he knew it ahead of time or not. Guy walks different dimensions (Like Dream Dimension) and can kill someone from there.

He crazy. And not recklesss. The Last Dragon was drivan Insane by a near equal of the Dark One and sundered the world.

#7 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: I was simply asking....

So what is his reaction time and speed?

Anyways, on-topic, he smites Vader, unless his reaction speeds and combat speeds are insufficient to even react......

#8 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Fast enough to deal with Balefire (Lightning speed) from 50 yards after it was shot.

Thats his best Speed feat.

#9 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: So what's his best reaction feat, because that's the important part. Because Luke and Palpatine can move at near-relativistic speeds.

If he's only that fast, Luke or Palpatine could see him in slow motion. Luke alone has seen a ship moving at nearly light-speeds in slow-motion.

#10 Edited by Freefa11 (2424 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Edit: sorry, didn't realize you were responding specifically to CadenceV2's comments. I'm not sure I buy Rand stomping either of them, but I stopped at book 7 or something, and that was probably 8 years ago.

Balefire pretty much automatically nullifies anything it touches physically, but also erases its timeline. The amount of its past erased depends on the power of the balefire (the physical destruction seems to be pretty much automatic for anyone actually capable of using it though). For example, you can use balefire as a round-about way to bring the dead back to life if they were killed by someone recently, and you balefire the person that killed them. It seems to usually be a matter of hours, from what I recall, but that's at "normal" levels, not deliberately trying to erase someone's whole life.

For some reason, even though history gets physically reset by this, everyone still remembers the original timeline (including anyone who may have been brought back to life).

From what I recall, during some ancient war when there were a whole bunch of uber-weavers (because everything is always better in ye olde days) throwing the crap around constantly they nearly unmade the universe before realizing that actually destroying time is kind of a stupid thing to do.

Anyway, I'm fairly confident Rand would stomp Vader. Even without BF, I got the impression he was probably a city-buster on his own, and that was well before the end of the series.

#11 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11: That's what I said........ that he smites Vader.

However, Cadence mentioned him smiting Sidious and Luke. Which..... I don't see happening.

#12 Posted by Freefa11 (2424 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Yeah, I edited my post once I realized you were responding to him specifically. I think you guys were posting while I was typing, so I didn't see several of your responses.

#13 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11: Don't worry. Although I alone see them capable of slaying Rand before he can even react. And they are capable of replicating most of his feats.

#14 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11 said:

@ShootingNova: Yeah, I edited my post once I realized you were responding to him specifically. I think you guys were posting while I was typing, so I didn't see several of your responses.

@ShootingNova

said:

@Freefa11: Don't worry. Although I alone see them capable of slaying Rand before he can even react. And they are capable of replicating most of his feats.

Problem is Hes Lightning Fast and can surround himself with with Death gates and a Storm that Instant Death anything he doesnt like underneath it. Seriously how is Palpatine or Luke countering that FTL or not?

Hes also immune to TP attacks as proven against the Dark One.

He can also kill from the Dream World that he can walk. As soon as the battle starts he enter Dream World Luke and Palpatine cant do anything. Then the Lightning Fast Balefire that can go Kamahamaha in size that can Erase a Forsaken lifetime by 3 ages!

Hes pretty untouchable when he starts off.

#15 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: The speed of lightning is nowhere near the speed of light. Palpatine and Luke strike at nearly the speed of light. They are much faster than lightning. They can also see lightning speed attacks in super-slow motion. Luke has seen far faster movement in slow motion.

Immunity to TP..... so? There's otherways they can die.

So what is the "as soon as"? How quick? Because if it's lightning speed again, he can't do it.

Anyways, Luke can just be a troll and use Mind Walking to go to Beyond Shadows...... wait, what's he even going to do there? LOL.

#16 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: So your argument is purely Speed Blitz near light speed? Thats it? Doesnt Force Lightning (Lightning speed) still hit Luke from time to tim,e? Why not always just dodge it and Near Light kill his enemy?

Also whats the starting distance? Is this with 5 minuets prep? All these can lead to a easy Victory for Rand. Just Saying...

#17 Posted by Dextersinister (6520 posts) - - Show Bio

Never read the last few books but Rand was practically a reality manipulator when he reached full potential.

#18 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: What? Luke only achieved near-relativistic speeds after EP VI, in fact, after DE.

If the starting distance is 20 or less metres, Luke and Sidious could most likely end it immediately. I don't know why prep would be so necessary, but five minutes prep would be enough to set up a Force Storm(s) and use precognition. But this is off-topic.

#19 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dextersinister said:

Never read the last few books but Rand was practically a reality manipulator when he reached full potential.

Preatty much.

@ShootingNova said:

@CadenceV2: What? Luke only achieved near-relativistic speeds after EP VI, in fact, after DE.

If the starting distance is 20 or less metres, Luke and Sidious could most likely end it immediately. I don't know why prep would be so necessary, but five minutes prep would be enough to set up a Force Storm(s) and use precognition. But this is off-topic.

With 5 Minuets Prep Rand could set up a hundred weaves and become untouchable. Destroy Planet and remake a new one.

#20 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Rand's speed is being overrated here. Nothing suggest balefire is lightning fast that I remember. Rand is also an excellent swordsman, but others have matched and even exceeded him in combat. I do think he'd beat Vader handily, and I think he could beat Luke or Palpatine with just the tiniest amout of prep, but he is very vulnerable to getting blitzed by them in a random encounter.

#21 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt: So ignoring the Weaves he can make and tie off in seconds like Death Gates, a Strom that Instant death any enemy of Rand, Balefire (which in the books is describe as Lightning arcing out and so fast only After image of its brightness is all one really sees) , and a host of other Weaves Rand can tie of and channel is to be ignored?

The Last Dragon having the power to SUNDER the World in a fit of rage be ignored?

#22 Posted by ShootingNova (19162 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Okay. The OP hasn't specified prep, so there wouldn't naturally be prep.

#23 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 No? What in my post made you think I am discounting that stuff? I think he is more powerful than even Luke or Palpatine are, just like Thor is more powerful than the Flash, but the speed discrepancy in a standard battle probably wouldn't give him the second he needs to react. Give him five seconds and I think he takes them. All this is not including his upgrade once he became at peace with himself and such as we don't know the full extent of his powers now

#24 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt: True that.