Rules no prep morals on both characters want to kill each other both characters get AK-47, Machine Gun, Shot Gun, Pistol and a Bowie Knife, all with unlimited ammo abondonned city Rambo from Rambo 3
Situation - Both characters are ready to kill and will NOT hold back, my money's on Rambo
" @comicdude23: She is better than him in every category. "
he has Vietnam exp....more tactical "
Uh.... Since when does Vietnam exp equal more tactical? "
I said he has Vietname exp, and IS more tactical, not equal tactical, and it took 200 cops to take him down in the end of the first movie, the new Rambo movie was just a slaughterhouse
I said he has Vietname exp, and IS more tactical, not equal tactical, and it took 200 cops to take him down in the end of the first movie, the new Rambo movie was just a slaughterhouse "
Perhaps you should put more thought into your posts then. They are very unclear. Also, 200 hillbillies do not equal any street level character in comics.
I said he has Vietname exp, and IS more tactical, not equal tactical, and it took 200 cops to take him down in the end of the first movie, the new Rambo movie was just a slaughterhouse "
Perhaps you should put more thought into your posts then. They are very unclear. Also, 200 hillbillies do not equal any street level character in comics. "
I will make them more clear. He has done more impressive things in the later Rambo movies. He only lost because he general told him to give up, In the later movies he defeated Armed Soldiers and slaughtered them
@comicdude23: No. He did not lose because the general told him to give up in the first movie. If you read the book, you would have known that he died because no one stopped him. He would have died if not for the general.
So Rambo defeats armed soldiers, Black Widow defeats super heros. She still wins.
" @comicdude23: No. He did not lose because the general told him to give up in the first movie. If you read the book, you would have known that he died because no one stopped him. He would have died if not for the general. So Rambo defeats armed soldiers, Black Widow defeats super heros. She still wins. "
I am using the movie version of Rambo. And BW and Rambo are nearly the same, there both killing machines, Rambo is more tactical
" @comicdude23: No. He did not lose because the general told him to give up in the first movie. If you read the book, you would have known that he died because no one stopped him. He would have died if not for the general. So Rambo defeats armed soldiers, Black Widow defeats super heros. She still wins. "
I am using the movie version of Rambo. And BW and Rambo are nearly the same, there both killing machines, Rambo is more tactical "
I know what version you are using. My point still stands. If it were not for the general, Rambo would have died in the first movie. The general convinced Rambo to not kill himself.
Both are killing machines but they are not nearly the same. Not even close. Rambo is not more tactical. You should really read up on the characters you are trying to debate with. It is actually pretty irritating when you post inaccurate statements like that.
" @comicdude23: No. He did not lose because the general told him to give up in the first movie. If you read the book, you would have known that he died because no one stopped him. He would have died if not for the general. So Rambo defeats armed soldiers, Black Widow defeats super heros. She still wins. "
I am using the movie version of Rambo. And BW and Rambo are nearly the same, there both killing machines, Rambo is more tactical "
I know what version you are using. My point still stands. If it were not for the general, Rambo would have died in the first movie. The general convinced Rambo to not kill himself. Both are killing machines but they are not nearly the same. Not even close. Rambo is not more tactical. You should really read up on the characters you are trying to debate with. It is actually pretty irritating when you post inaccurate statements like that. "
By suicide, what does suicide have to with the battle???? how is Rambo not more tactical?
By suicide, what does suicide have to with the battle???? how is Rambo not more tactical? "
Not suicide. He was going to rush out there, guns blazing because he is NOT very tactical. He just seemed like it because, once again, he was fighting hillbillies.
He almost died several times in the first movie alone. The cave is another example. He would have died there if the cave just happened to not be a tunnel. He got lucky. Luck is not tactics at all.
By suicide, what does suicide have to with the battle???? how is Rambo not more tactical? "
Not suicide. He was going to rush out there, guns blazing because he is NOT very tactical. He just seemed like it because, once again, he was fighting hillbillies. He almost died several times in the first movie alone. The cave is another example. He would have died there if the cave just happened to not be a tunnel. He got lucky. Luck is not tactics at all. "
By suicide, what does suicide have to with the battle???? how is Rambo not more tactical? "
Not suicide. He was going to rush out there, guns blazing because he is NOT very tactical. He just seemed like it because, once again, he was fighting hillbillies. He almost died several times in the first movie alone. The cave is another example. He would have died there if the cave just happened to not be a tunnel. He got lucky. Luck is not tactics at all. "
By suicide, what does suicide have to with the battle???? how is Rambo not more tactical? "
Not suicide. He was going to rush out there, guns blazing because he is NOT very tactical. He just seemed like it because, once again, he was fighting hillbillies. He almost died several times in the first movie alone. The cave is another example. He would have died there if the cave just happened to not be a tunnel. He got lucky. Luck is not tactics at all. "
Black Widow wins....but easily "
Fixed. "
Punisher, Blade, Deadpool, Jason Todd could beat BW
Black Widow. MCU or not. Despite my 100% respect for Rambo and know he could probably hold his own, I feel sorry for him.
They both have impressive feats such as advanced military training which puts them above over half of the planet. Rambo can take armies just as Natasha can, but she has toppled empires for years and has helped to tackle Avenger level threats….not to mention being trained in the Red Room which is the deadliest assassin program in human history. One of the best formidable hand to hand combatants in marvel. Anything in her hands is automatically lethal. I mean her skills are just so impressive that in the comics, she was able to kill several heavily armed assassins only a few feet away from Maria Hill without her even noticing. Plus the super soldier serum variant. She has a unique “healing factor” (definitely not fast at all as Wolverine or Deadpool) which causes her to not only barely age but recover from injuries faster than a normal human. Quick on her feet when it comes to thinking and master interrogator when it comes to information. Enough said.
@wabubub: It’s not his fault he doesn’t live in a world without super powered beings. If he did he’d be kicking their asses too.
Widow spent more time learning about stuff that’s not gonna help in a fight (spying, dancing, and computer stuff) from an inferior training facility than Rambo, while he spent all his time learning strictly warfare from the best. He’s like John Wick and Tarzan rolled into one.
No lol. The whole point of the Red Room was to train her at stuff that would help her become a good fighter and assassin. The Red Room didn't just train her at dancing, spying and hacking. She was also extensively trained at handling a multitude of weapons and firearms, mastering a multitude of martial arts and was biotechnologically enhanced, along with a bunch of other stuff. She was trained by Winter Soldier and Wolverine in combat and also got more training once she joined S.H.I.E.L.D.
And let's not forget that Black Widow has been doing what she does for nearly 100 years and therefore has more experience than Rambo.
@ashconwell: Bio says she not even 1928 (less than 20 years older than Rambo) so she’s not even 100 years old, her experience over him is insignificant. Rambo is expert in exactly the mission setup for this fight. Widow is a more rounded expert. She’s an assassin, not a soldier.
Punisher beats Widow in this setup and so does Rambo.
You're right, I had forgotten about the exact year she was born but that still makes her around 90 years and gives her more experience than him. Even if you don't think experience is a factor that changes things, she's still a better fighter.
Rambo, expert at random encounters with no prep?
The "she's an assassin, not a soldier" is a bad take. She's can fight better than Rambo. Since the starting distance between them isn't stated that means they start 10 feet apart. What is Rambo going to do? Shoot at her?! What kind of speed feats does he have to show he can keep up with her? When the fight gets up close, what kind of combat skill feats does he have that suggest he doesn't get outskilled and stomped? Seriously, Nat closes the distance and smacks him.
@ashconwell: Well, no one has taken Rambo by walking up to him and smacking him before, so she ain’t dining it.
We don’t know starting distance, but if it is 10’ it could be on different floors or rooms of the same
building. With the arsenals given each character it seems rather odd that they’d be standing 10 feet away and looking at each other carrying all that useless firepower. Both would have either the shotgun or pistol out at that distance. In which case yeah, Rambo shoots her. Same as Punisher would.
Well, no one has taken Rambo by walking up to him and smacking him before, so she ain’t dining it.
Yeah she could. Show me skill feats from him that suggest he doesn't get easily disarmed and stomped in close combat.
Also, the rules are that if the starting distance between characters isn't specified in the OP, it's just assumed to be 10 feet.
Both would have either the shotgun or pistol out at that distance. In which case yeah, Rambo shoots her. Same as Punisher would.
Bruh, Natasha can just dodge the bullets and close the distance. Punisher already tried to shoot her from behind her back and she just dodged. As for Black Widow vs Punisher, I'm definitely leaning for Natasha to win. They stalemated multiple times and she has fought on par with people that are above him.
@ashconwell: Fair enough, I disagree. I don’t have much tech skills or any scans, but I’ve watched his movies. If we are going by rules rather than intent of the thread creator in an 11 year old battle, does rules say they have to see each other? Could they not be directly above/below one another in an abandoned building a be within 10’feet?
Seems to me the OP created an abandoned city setting with this much firepower for a hunt/destroy faceoff. That still could happen if they start 10’feet apart but not aware of each other’s positions. Or is that allowed in the rules?
If you want to say it’s a high-noon draw-type battle where they both see each other and draw at the strike of 12, then I can’t recall Rambo’s best feat for quickdraw. All I’m saying is Rambo is based in a world without superpowers and he still accomplishes super human feats. He is meant to be a real life Punisher level character- a guy who does exist in a superhero world with no superpowers. That’s why I keep bringing him up as comparison.
Fair enough, I disagree. I don’t have much tech skills or any scans, but I’ve watched his movies. If we are going by rules rather than intent of the thread creator in an 11 year old battle, does rules say they have to see each other? Could they not be directly above/below one another in an abandoned building a be within 10’feet?
Seems to me the OP created an abandoned city setting with this much firepower for a hunt/destroy faceoff. That still could happen if they start 10’feet apart but not aware of each other’s positions. Or is that allowed in the rules?
There's nothing stating they are directly above or below eachother or that they aren't aware of eachother's positions. But if they were, tbh, I feel like that would give Natasha an even bigger advantage because she could sneak up on him and she has some really good stealth feats.
If you want to say it’s a high-noon draw-type battle where they both see each other and draw at the strike of 12, then I can’t recall Rambo’s best feat for quickdraw. All I’m saying is Rambo is based in a world without superpowers and he still accomplishes super human feats. He is meant to be a real life Punisher level character- a guy who does exist in a superhero world with no superpowers. That’s why I keep bringing him up as comparison.
That's cool and all but he doesn't stand a chance against Natasha in a fight. She's much more skilled and faster. She fights on par with Elektra, Winter Soldier and Taskmaster. I don't recall Rambo having any strength feats on her level either, iirc.
@ashconwell: All sources I see list her as peak human. (I did not do extensive research). This site lists her as peak human female. Rambo isn’t gonna struggle with that. In his movies he frequently showed his abilities in disappearing into his environment and setting up traps while being persued. He’s better than her at that. He did this in all his movies. I think you are greatly underestimating him and me comparing him to punisher (who I believe beats BW) is very apt.
She’s just lucky he doesn’t have a bow or it would be a stomp!
@sanmiguel1: Oh, so you're not even familiar with her feats... Yeah, Natasha is peak human by Marvel standards but technically she has superhuman strength. She's still above Rambo in strength. I can post some strength feats if you want but you could look up her respect threads or something.
Natasha is better at sneaking around than Rambo. And either way, he's 10 feet in front of her. If he tries to shoot at her, she'd simply dodge the bullets, close the distance, disarm him and stomp him. I don't think he can try to run away and hide from her either, she'd outrun him, since she's faster.
I don't really care about the comparison to Frank. Natasha would beat Frank in a random encounter anyway.
She's not bulletproof but she is superhuman. Technically by our irl standards she has superhuman strength. By Marvel standards tho, she's a peak human. It's because the peak human baseline in Marvel is higher than our irl one.
Here are some of her strength feats:
She tackled through bulletproof glass Captain America was skeptical she could break.
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She cracked a wall with a woman's head (Natasha was disguised as the man wearing green clothes).
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She kicked the Punisher through a wooden wall, sending him flying a fair distance away and breaking the wooden wall in the process.
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She made Wolverine bleed during a sparring session.
She snapped a man's neck with a kick.
She punched through a car windshield, then with one arm threw the driver out.
She kicked a man's leg so hard that his bone came out of his leg.
She stabed a man and casually lifted him up at the end of a pole, then tossed him on a another man.
She pried open a titanium-alloy door.
She ripped off the metal arm of a robot/cyborg.
She wrestled with, killed and threw around the dead body of a giant crocodile she described as being "the size of a couch". Her killing it isn't even the most impressive part. It's her dragging and throwing around it's dead body that's really impressive.
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She threw a man into a stone wall, cracking it.
She sliced a man's neck with a hand swing.
Speed feats:
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Durability, endurance and pain tolerance feats:
Tanked getting hit into a wall by Black Dwarf.
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Stayed completely still while being performed a major abdominal surgery on without anasthesia during which she was awake (if she made the slightest movement, they would have messed up her organs).
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She sneaked into a 20 story building in the rain without ropes while recovering from a gunshot to the gut.
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She tanked the explosion of a missile that destroyed the entire room she was in.
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Tanks a huge fall off a building during which she bounced off a sign and hits a car.
Tanks an explosion from up close that sent her flying into a car, breaking the windshield.
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And she often tanks getting hit by superhuman opponents just fine.
Skill feats and accolades:
Stalemated Elektra despite being injured from undergoing major surgery a few days before.
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Outskiled and gained the upperhand against Winter Soldier on multiple occasions. She also defeated Recluse who outkilled and defeated Winter Soldier.
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Managed to beat Taskmaster after he used a combination of Daredevil, Batroc, Iron Fist and Shang-Chi's moves, and nearly killed him before getting interupted by Maria Hill.
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Outskilled Crossbones and chokes him out with her Widow's line.
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Is stated to be the end product of the Red Room's goal to train a superhuman assassin capable of killing Captain America (Black Widow is considered one of the best Black Widows of the Red Room)
Is stated to be skilled enough that she can run circles around people who possess ten times her strength. (She has done so)
There's a lot more stuff when it comes to skill but these are a few notable feats and accolades.
@ashconwell: Strength feats aren’t gonna help her in a gun fight. Rambo has incredible pain resistance and has fought while shot as well. He’s also dodged fire from pistols, rifles, and mounted machine guns.
He shoots her with the shotgun from 10 feet and she goes down.
@sanmiguel1: Strength feats are going to help her. Because she's just going to dodge the bullets and close the distance, leading to them fighting in close combat. I literally showed you a bunch of scans of her dodging bullets. When has Rambo dodged bullets? I don't remember him ever doing so.
Bruh, Natasha can just dodge the bullets and close the distance. Punisher already tried to shoot her from behind her back and she just dodged. As for Black Widow vs Punisher, I'm definitely leaning for Natasha to win. They stalemated multiple times and she has fought on par with people that are above him.
They stalemated once, that is if you call him running away from her after she dominated him in a short fight a stalemate. Black Widow won the other encounters which puts her clearly above Punisher. So the user putting Rambo on Punisher level is basically confirming himself that Widow wins this battle.
Thread should get closed actually, putting any non-enhanced human live action character against 616 Widow is ridiculous spite.
I guess calling him running away from her a stalemate might not be the word to use but yeah, my point still stands. You agree Natasha would beat Frank.
But you're right, they didn't stalemate multiple times. Only once. I don't know why I said that lol. She beat him in Secret Empire and she was dominating in their rematch in War Zone.
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