#1 Posted by MonsterStomp (19239 posts) - - Show Bio

Round One:

Jax Briggs

Round Two:

Kano

Round Three:

Hsu Hao

Round Four:

Kabal

Round Five:

Smoke

Round Six:

Sektor

Round Seven:

Cyrax

Round Eight:

Cyber Sub Zero

Round Nine:

All at once

_____________________________________________

RULES:

  • No BFR (if possible)
  • Raiden gets no breaks in between fights
  • Gameplay Mechanics are enabled for Mortal Kombat (limited to only MK9)
  • Everyone is in character

_____________________________________________

RULES (For round 9):

  • Team Mortal Kombat get 2 weeks preparation with full information on Raiden
  • Raiden doesn't know he's being hunted
  • Team Mortal Kombat are bloodlusted
  • Raiden gets a days rest before this fight
  • In character

_____________________________________________

LOCATION:

Small village

_____________________________________________

Is Raiden too much or will he fall?

P.S I apologise in advance if this thread doesn't pan out the way I want it to look.

#2 Posted by MonsterStomp (19239 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL

#3 Posted by Grandmastersexyhd (305 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops a 5.. that is suppose to be Robot Smoke right?

#4 Posted by MonsterStomp (19239 posts) - - Show Bio

@Grandmastersexyhd said:

Stops a 5.. that is suppose to be Robot Smoke right?

Yeah and round 8 is Cyber Sub Zero. Looks better on mobile devices :P

#5 Posted by SoA (4921 posts) - - Show Bio

with no rest i see him stopping at kabal

#6 Posted by nick_hero22 (6942 posts) - - Show Bio

Mismatch

#7 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

stats wise i see him clearing

#8 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5456 posts) - - Show Bio

Raiden s^%ts on them cyborgs. Jack the Ripper is even worse.

#9 Posted by MonsterStomp (19239 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

Mismatch

Psht anything with MK characters is a mismatch to you, sit down! :P

#10 Edited by nick_hero22 (6942 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp said:

@nick_hero22 said:

Mismatch

Psht anything with MK characters is a mismatch to you, sit down! :P

Well in that case, please explain how any of these characters would actually react to Raiden's speed and swordsmanship skill.

#11 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp:

Lol! Game mechanics in? Then it depends... Where's the fight taking place?

With Game mechanics enabled:

Jax has a good chance up close...

...but I ultimately see Raiden taking it.

Kabal would give him trouble...

...and IMO it could go either way.

Smoke would give him trouble...

...again, either way.

Cyrax could do some real damage...

...another one that could go either way IMO, but if Cyrax had his pulse blade it think he could win majority.

Lore wise I think Cyber-Sub could hang with Raiden, but all in all I can see Raiden taking the majority (or close enough to it) in these match-ups and possibly clearing. @MonsterStomp if you open it up a bit, allow for other game feats, then i think I would be closer in some of the other 1v1 fights.

Round 9 though...MK takes it hands down...

...with prep there are literally millions of tag combinations the MK characters can come up with and whip out. They'd overwhelm Raiden from all sides.

#12 Posted by MonsterStomp (19239 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

@MonsterStomp said:

@nick_hero22 said:

Mismatch

Psht anything with MK characters is a mismatch to you, sit down! :P

Well in that case, please explain how any of these characters would actually react to Raiden's speed and swordsmanship skill.

TBH If any of these guys get a few x ray moves in, I don't see Raiden taking the trophy.

With gameplay mechanics in any of these guys have the strength to break diamond.

And Raiden can be tagged a bunch of times by people slower then him. Though this is either the game slowing it down for us or he fights at that speed all the time.

#13 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

...... Raiden so clears this.

You see that?! That is Cyborg Shao Khans Spine!

#14 Posted by nick_hero22 (6942 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@MonsterStomp said:

@nick_hero22 said:

Mismatch

Psht anything with MK characters is a mismatch to you, sit down! :P

Well in that case, please explain how any of these characters would actually react to Raiden's speed and swordsmanship skill.

TBH If any of these guys get a few x ray moves in, I don't see Raiden taking the trophy.

With gameplay mechanics in any of these guys have the strength to break diamond.

And Raiden can be tagged a bunch of times by people slower then him. Though this is either the game slowing it down for us or he fights at that speed all the time.

I see that gameplay mechanics are enabled now, but that doesn't change the fact that Raiden can react and outmaneuver supersonic projectiles in the heat of combat. I haven't seen any Mortal Kombat characters performs any feats that put them into the bullet-timing brackets except Reptile, who displayed a low-end capacity to avoid horribly inaccurate gunfire from Stryker and Kabal.

#15 Posted by MonsterStomp (19239 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: Actually I had gameplay mechanics enabled ages ago, the OP hadn't been edited yet. Even though these MK characters have no bullet timing feats, Raiden isn't using bullets. You're saying Raiden clears in a mismatch, I doubt that given that gameplay mechanics are enabled. The only real issue for Raiden is dealing with the powers and x ray moves, the only issue for MK is really the blade mode and his perceptions. I think its a good fight, especially Smoke vs Raiden.

#16 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp:

Actually with GP allowed, they are all bullet timers, and missile blockers, as they can duck, dodge, phase through, and/or reflect bullets, and do the same to a missle.

#17 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@saiyan_earthling:

this happens,

repeat process

#18 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5456 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: how the hell did you get these gifs?

LOL

#19 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@saiyan_earthling: Google Fu

#20 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Edited by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

Getting raiden into a 'fatality' position is funny, and going by game mechanics PS allstars would be murder

#22 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man:

That's really why I was asking where the fight was taking place.

I agree that nailing Raiden down in an open area would be tough for characters like Jax, Kano, or Hsu Hao (who has no MK9 stuff to pull from btw), but in a closed area, they can use there tools better to trap and potentially overwhelm a fighter (see my earlier post for Jax combos).

Characters like Smoke or Cyrax who can teleport...

...or Kabal, who is just faster than Raiden...

...could keep up.

In a team setting though would have death blows coming from all directions. With prep the MK team can set him up.

#23 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: The diamond hitting thing is iffy because all borgs in MGR verse uses CNT muscles, the very reason that nobody even bothers to use 'guns' in a cyborg fight.

Also methinks game mechanics will be terribly bad for the MK folks (note, sidestepping)

An open room is actually more beneficial for MK team since they can escape whereas in close quarters they are trapped with Raiden. They can only move with less options.

Also Zandatsu and blade mode would be a very very hard for MK team

#24 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man:

It's the same reason MK fighters don't need or use guns too.

The MK9 game mechanic stipulation does hold them back a bit (or at least makes it harder to imagine); in the 3-d games all the characters were way more mobile...

I get you regarding Raiden's zandatsu since blade mode is basically Raiden's fatality. But while that option is powerful and very awesome, even it can't cut smoke...

#25 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

Stryker uses a gun, seems to work with them (MK don't have CNT)

MK9 'game' mechanics in terms of combat only allow fighters in mkverse to move forwards and backwards

Smoke is susceptible to damage as everyone is in MK9

'Fatality' needs them to beat the opponent into a groggy position first

#26 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

Raiden clears it.

#27 Posted by MonsterStomp (19239 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I did say GPM are enabled. Doesn't necessarily mean all feats are restricted as such..

#28 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@onilordasmodeus:

Stryker uses a gun, seems to work with them (MK don't have CNT)

MK9 'game' mechanics in terms of combat only allow fighters in mkverse to move forwards and backwards

Smoke is susceptible to damage as everyone is in MK9

'Fatality' needs them to beat the opponent into a groggy position first

Styker and Kabal used guns and niether worked on Reptile, and in their fight with Kintaro Kabal was horrible disfigured by him. Kahn's forces invaded the entire Earth, and guns and missles didn't stop Kahn's armies from laying waste to the Earth as a whole. The MK fighters are a cut above your average human.

That is a troll statement.

True. By no means am I saying that Smoke is invincible or invulnerable, but it wouldn't be as easy as you seem to think, or want to say, given what smoke can do.

No. For a fatality to be done the character just needs opportunity and a desire to kill. An MK fatality is very similar to Raiden's Zandatsu. Raiden can use Zandatsu at any time in whaterever fight, but in tougher fights the final blow can't be dealt until the opponent is "softened up a bit" and an opportunity made and capitalized on.

@MonsterStomp:

What do you mean?

#29 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

Styker and Kabal used guns and niether worked on Reptile, and in their fight with Kintaro Kabal was horrible disfigured by him. Kahn's forces invaded the entire Earth, and guns and missles didn't stop Kahn's armies from laying waste to the Earth as a whole. The MK fighters are a cut above your average human.

Last I recall background story does not fall into the realm of 'game mechanics'

works just fine, since going by 'mk game mechanics' as by the OP fatalities work on everybody, and oh look even a tazer can stun them.

ka-blammo if the vidya is not subtle enough

That is a troll statement.

Not by any means dear sir, If I wanted to troll you I would have put some discriminatory words and nsfw words into the debate. So far I have not done so, do not push me in that direction.

True. By no means am I saying that Smoke is invincible or invulnerable, but it wouldn't be as easy as you seem to think, or want to say, given what smoke can do.

Still has form susceptible to mortality as per rules of MK, still human body and still killable

No. For a fatality to be done the character just needs opportunity and a desire to kill. An MK fatality is very similar to Raiden's Zandatsu. Raiden can use Zandatsu at any time in whaterever fight, but in tougher fights the final blow can't be dealt until the opponent is "softened up a bit" and an opportunity made and capitalized on.

that bolded statement goes as well as fatality dear sir, unless you can show me a MK9 video of a fatality being used from the get-go. MK fighters do not fall into the category of 'tougher' fights.

#30 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man:

You are missing my point entirely with the guns. Guns are can be effective, but just having a gun doesn't give you a 1-up. It's like saying Raiden's blade can cut through anyone thus he wins. Who is wielding the blade, or gun, is just as important as as the weapon it's self.

...the game mechaincs (per the OP) can be used but are not the sole source from which the outcome of this fight can be drawn. Just as you brought up the CNT for the MGR cyborgs, the MK fighters use Chi, Faa Jing, Magic, Tech, natural abilities, and/or divine power in their fights. Here is no different.

OK, but still, trying to regulate the MK fighters to a 2-d plane is an odd statement to make unless you have some underlying purpose.

Still has form susceptible to mortality as per rules of MK, still human body and still killable

Very much so, that is what I said.

that bolded statement goes as well as fatality dear sir, unless you can show me a MK9 video of a fatality being used from the get-go. MK fighters do not fall into the category of 'tougher' fights.

Exactly, which is why I explicitly said opportunity.

#31 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

Raiden's blade can cut through anyone thus he wins.

My point exactly, although to be specific he can cut through anyone in this gauntlet and smoke before he turns into smoke (which is strangely not immune to receiving a fatality)

which is why I explicitly said opportunity.

Speed makes the difference here, and raiden has enough for days

#32 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@onilordasmodeus:

Raiden's blade can cut through anyone thus he wins.

My point exactly, although to be specific he can cut through anyone in this gauntlet and smoke before he turns into smoke (which is strangely not immune to receiving a fatality)

which is why I explicitly said opportunity.

Speed makes the difference here, and raiden has enough for days

It really seems like you are cherry picking statements and choosing to ignore important details.

Kabal is faster than Raiden out-right...

...so if speed is all that matters ("makes the difference") then Kabal wins.

Smoke's ability to teleport (along with the others who have the ability as well) put him in a speed class comparable to Raiden if not faster. So again, if speed is all that matters then Smoke wins.

All I'm saying is that it isn't that easy and/or that cut and dry in a lot of these fights. In the fights I specifically cited, I stick to what I said earlier, "it could gor either way."

Another thing that I haven't brought up at all though, are MK9's armor moves. Since gameplay is in, then so is armor, and so for specific moves done at specific times the MK characters can absorb more damage and block/negate Raiden's slach attacks out right. Jax in particular has super-armor on most of his enhanced specials (meaning he can absorb an unlimited amount of hits and still deliver a crushing blow), so if Jax gets in on Raiden he can absorb a lot of damage while dishing out even more.

..Kano also has some decent armor moves, and armor makes Kabal even more deadly.

Add to that fact that all the characters on the list (excluding Hsu Hao) have super-armor on their X-ray moves.

#33 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

nice 'faster than the eyes' thing but I need numbers or any support on exactly how fast he is, or he is gonna bump straight to a wall of CNT and mech

Teleport =/= speed, it does give transportation or moving advantage but it is not speed

Raiden has fought and handled things without a full set of limbs, no problem here

Their armor won't last against the HF blade, and you are making exaggerated assumptions that their flesh would actually block the HF sword

#34 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@onilordasmodeus:

nice 'faster than the eyes' thing but I need numbers or any support on exactly how fast he is, or he is gonna bump straight to a wall of CNT and mech

Teleport =/= speed, it does give transportation or moving advantage but it is not speed

Raiden has fought and handled things without a full set of limbs, no problem here

Their armor won't last against the HF blade, and you are making exaggerated assumptions that their flesh would actually block the HF sword

What? Are there even numbers on how fast Raiden is? Kabal's showings tell me he's faster than Raiden. Do you have something that says other wise?

I know that teleportation isn't movement speed persay, but you are right in that it does make for an advantage in overall movement, allowing Smoke, Sektor, Cyrax, and Cyber-Sub, to stay ahead of Raiden.

...not to mention that the cyborgs can cloak and fly/hover (air control).

Note: with the clip above I'm not saying any MK character is at DBZ levels of power, it's just that when I think of a teleport punch, this is the moment that has been etched in my brain.

Their armor isn't meant to "last," just perform when needed and create opportunities. Thinking of this fight in a realitic fashion, I'd just say that Jax's arms (specifically) would hold up to Raiden's blade while using armor moves (at least for a time), and that the MK cyborg's regular armor (their skin) would do the same. I wouldn't assert that human flesh could tank a HF blade. All the MK characters listed are skilled enough to block/counter a sword with the weapons they have as they have (except maybe Hsu Hao) as they have fought others with as much skill and experience, if not more, then what Raiden brings.

@MonsterStomp:

Are Cyrax and Sektor pulse blade admissable?

#35 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

Calcs and stats based on his performance against high caliber weapons put him high at hypersonic

Teleportation is nice for dodging, has anyone in MK ever been remotely shown to do the same move?

Cyborgs in MGS can also cloak, standard feature of MGR mook plus his blade is electrified

Not all MK fighters possess the same fighting skills, some have powers to rely on.

Saying Jax is as skilled as Scorpion is laughable, also MK is not noticeable for its 'fluid' combat (jerky, direct, and predictable)

What is JAX's arms made of?

What is MK cyborg armor made of?

#36 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man:

Again, what?

Teleport punch...

Standard for a "mook," but still useful in a fight. Can Raiden Cloak? Can he track a cloaked opponent? Can he track a cloaked opponent who can telelport? What about 4 independently cloaked and teleporting opponents at the same time who have trained for years together?

All MK fighters rely on skill in combat first; that is why they were/are chosen in the first place. Powers just sweeten the pot. While Jax isn't as skilled as Scorpion in stealth assassination, or with a kunai specifically, in a straight up fight using h2h and the tools he has trained with, he can hold his own. Just as the ninja's were trained from a young age to fight, so too was Cage, Sonya, and many others in the MK roster. Raiden chose them for a reason.

"You must learn to harness your Fa Jing, or Inner Power. Jax has learned to focus his Fa Jing into a powerful earth-shaking move he calls the Ground Pound."

From Jax's MK:DA Konquest Mode transcript. http://tabmok99.mortalkombatonline.com/konquest-jax.html

Contrary to popular belief, even fighters like Jax, Sonya, and even Stryker, character's thought to rely solely on tech and guns, are highly skilled martial artists who have studied and mastered their inner energies to do extraordinary things. Many of the MK fighters can use their fa jing (or chi if you like) in combat to enhance their strength, speed, durability, and even heal themselves. Other characters use magics or are just naturally strong or fast.

Both the Cyborgs armor and Jax's arms are made from a high-grade titanium alloy iirc.

Cyrax's armor was/is able to tank lava temps (likely higher) as he was completely submerge in Lava for a time while still being able to funtion and walk around through the molten rock; all the Cyborg were made same way. As the series progressed though (past MK9), Cyrax scaled back his robotic parts while Sektor actually added more tech on to himself. Robo-Smoke went an entirely different direction, and acutally evolved into something completely different than the others; he became less human and less machine. The nanomachines in him, coupled with his smoke-like nature (the demonic entity within him) transformed him completely into a new being.

#37 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

Standard for a "mook," but still useful in a fight. Can Raiden Cloak? Can he track a cloaked opponent? Can he track a cloaked opponent who can telelport? What about 4 independently cloaked and teleporting opponents at the same time who have trained for years together?

you might need to refer to the mgs experts

Raiden chose them for a reason.

They are merely chess pieces in his strategies against Kahn, and some of them died

Contrary to popular belief, even fighters like Jax, Sonya, and even Stryker, character's thought to rely solely on tech and guns, are highly skilled martial artists who have studied and mastered their inner energies to do extraordinary things.

Claim to masted but does not show

Both the Cyborgs armor and Jax's arms are made from a high-grade titanium alloy iirc.

might as well wrap beancurd skin over their flesh

#38 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man:

The MK fighters are as much chess pieces as Raiden, Snake, and everyone else in MG lore is.

Is Raiden less skilled than he is because he's lost fights before? Because Sam took he arm off? When 2 masters (or 2 very skill opponents) meet, 1 of them does not become less/more of a master simply because there are 1 lost and 1 won. When 2 fighters of equal skill meet (even if there skills off-set each other and extend into different area), the fighter who comes out on top is just the one who was better that day. Shown numerous times throughout numerous stories.

I've edited my previous post further, but still, your comment says nothing of note.

#39 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

high grade =/= Indestructible

Description: Its metallic structure strengthened by an alternating current, this blade resonates such that it weakens the particle bonds of whatever it cuts. Its effectiveness is further boosted in Blade Mode, which consumes energy but enables high-speed attacks. Customized by Doktor to absorb fuel-cell electrolytes from its victims.
Stats: It’s a well balanced blade with the lowest FC Consumption.

Nope, but I will let the 'chess piece' debate thing go to the experts

When fighting sam that is his pre-upgraded body, the Raiden before and the raiden at the end of the game are different in capability and mentality

Not that, I meant they claim they are master of their art but their move set is limited and their movements are jerky at best. As in oh batman masters 127 arts yet I have never seen him do a Capoeira move or a wing-chun maneuver.

#40 Posted by nickzambuto (14124 posts) - - Show Bio

Standard for a "mook," but still useful in a fight. Can Raiden Cloak? Can he track a cloaked opponent? Can he track a cloaked opponent who can telelport? What about 4 independently cloaked and teleporting opponents at the same time who have trained for years together?

Well, yes kinda. Raiden's advanced augment mode should allow him to keep track of any enemy; I'm pretty sure he actually has used it against cloaked enemies in Rising already. Add to the fact that Raiden spent half a decade in Alaska learning from the greatest masters how to hunt and track, and cloaking won't cause any problem at all.