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#1 Posted by AverageMan (138 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are Bloodlusted

No Prep

Morals Off

Both Start 200 meters away from each other

Ryu Hayabusa has his Dragon Sword and his Shuriken. Ryu is at full power.

Raiden has his high Frequency Sword and his Exoskeleton is reinforced. Raiden is at full power.

Battle takes place in Detroit (Deus Ex version)

#2 Posted by chaos-soul (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

ryu wins outclasess in almost every way.@Kendostick: you say that like vamp isn't a tough opponent.

#3 Posted by Singaporecane (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos-soul said:

ryu wins outclasess in almost every way.@Kendostick: you say that like vamp isn't a tough opponent.

He's not. Raiden as a human took him down 3 times in MGS2. On top of that his regeneration is watered down, on at least 2 occassions he was hit with a single bullet and went down like a sac of bricks. He recovered but was still temporarily incapacitated.

On top of that Snake put him in a choke hold and took his healing away. The guy has no peak human strength, a watered down regeneration, the only thing impressive about him is his speed and his wall running feats were retconned

#4 Posted by chaos-soul (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@Singaporecane: a bullet to the head would kill ryu

#5 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

How strong/fast is Ryu? Cause Raiden is a 100 tonner who can apparently throw throwing knives with "machine gun speed"

#6 Posted by Dokbommer (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

How strong/fast is Ryu? Cause Raiden is a 100 tonner who can apparently throw throwing knives with "machine gun speed"

And you wonder why people don't respect you on this site. One PIS feat for Raiden contradicted by like 9 other showings, and he's never thrown knives with machine gun speed. Asshole

#7 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dokbommer said:

@nickzambuto said:

How strong/fast is Ryu? Cause Raiden is a 100 tonner who can apparently throw throwing knives with "machine gun speed"

And you wonder why people don't respect you on this site. One PIS feat for Raiden contradicted by like 9 other showings, and he's never thrown knives with machine gun speed.

Actually, Raiden tossed around Gekkos, and considering a simple tank can weigh 60 tons, that alone makes him pretty strong. Outer Haven was just the icing on the cake. What has he done to say he's weak?

And the throwing knives thing comes from the MGS4 novel. Raiden has other speed feats, such as cutting multiple Gekko into several pieces in the blink of an eye when he saved Snake at Shadow Moses.

#8 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

Revengeance Raiden would win.

Other versions would lose.

#9 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Death Certificate said:

Revengeance Raiden would win.

Other versions would lose.

What exactly can Ryu do? I've heard he's pretty uber, but can he compete with Raiden's strength and speed?

#10 Posted by Shinomori (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@Dokbommer said:

@nickzambuto said:

How strong/fast is Ryu? Cause Raiden is a 100 tonner who can apparently throw throwing knives with "machine gun speed"

And you wonder why people don't respect you on this site. One PIS feat for Raiden contradicted by like 9 other showings, and he's never thrown knives with machine gun speed.

Actually, Raiden tossed around Gekkos, and considering a simple tank can weigh 60 tons, that alone makes him pretty strong. Outer Haven was just the icing on the cake. What has he done to say he's weak?

And the throwing knives thing comes from the MGS4 novel. Raiden has other speed feats, such as cutting multiple Gekko into several pieces in the blink of an eye when he saved Snake at Shadow Moses.

Liar, if this is the novel you're tlaking about

http://www.amazon.com/Metal-Gear-Solid-Guns-Patriot/dp/1421540010/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351367468&sr=1-3&keywords=metal+gear+solid#reader_B008CI7AJG

No where does it state that he threw knives at the same rate of a machine gun

and Geckos don't weigh 60 tons, hell I doubt they weigh 20 tons. Their legs are organic.

Vamp pinned both of Raidens hands to his back with knives when they were fighting. Also Raiden was being restrained by 4 geckos when he first showed up and needed Snake to free him

Nice try though

#11 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shinomori said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Dokbommer said:

@nickzambuto said:

How strong/fast is Ryu? Cause Raiden is a 100 tonner who can apparently throw throwing knives with "machine gun speed"

And you wonder why people don't respect you on this site. One PIS feat for Raiden contradicted by like 9 other showings, and he's never thrown knives with machine gun speed.

Actually, Raiden tossed around Gekkos, and considering a simple tank can weigh 60 tons, that alone makes him pretty strong. Outer Haven was just the icing on the cake. What has he done to say he's weak?

And the throwing knives thing comes from the MGS4 novel. Raiden has other speed feats, such as cutting multiple Gekko into several pieces in the blink of an eye when he saved Snake at Shadow Moses.

Liar, if this is the novel you're tlaking about

http://www.amazon.com/Metal-Gear-Solid-Guns-Patriot/dp/1421540010/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351367468&sr=1-3&keywords=metal+gear+solid#reader_B008CI7AJG

No where does it state that he threw knives at the same rate of a machine gun

and Geckos don't weigh 60 tons, hell I doubt they weigh 20 tons. Their legs are organic.

Vamp pinned both of Raidens hands to his back with knives when they were fighting. Also Raiden was being restrained by 4 geckos when he first showed up and needed Snake to free him

Nice try though

Actually, it does. During his knife fight with Vamp on top of Rex.

I guess I could provide scans, but I don't have a scanner. I'd actually have to find the page, take a picture with my phone, upload the picture to iPhoto, and then figure out how to get it on the page.

I don't feel like doing that.

#12 Posted by Shinomori (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:Page number then.

#13 Posted by Shinomori (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:Yeah that's what I thought, lying douche

#14 Posted by Reptilicus (682 posts) - - Show Bio

Along as this is Revengeance Raiden, and Ryu has no magic, Raiden should be able to win.

#15 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Ryu has a magic sword that cut alot of things

#16 Posted by Reptilicus (682 posts) - - Show Bio

@Death Certificate: Then I'm guessing Ryu probably should win.

#17 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reptilicus: Until Revengeance comes out, yeah Ryu should win

#18 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (26109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shinomori said:

@nickzambuto:Yeah that's what I thought, lying douche

Flagged

#19 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Death Certificate said:

@Reptilicus: Until Revengeance comes out, yeah Ryu should win

I still disagree. Ryu is comparable to Raiden in speed, judging by those videos, but what about strength? Durability? Skill? Raiden spent the entirety of MGS2 making fools out of the most elite military group in the business, and that was while he was still a rookie with no ninja training.

See, I can post a bunch of random videos too ^.^

#20 Posted by Vance Astro (91357 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shinomori said:

@nickzambuto:Yeah that's what I thought, lying douche

Don't call people names on the forums.
Moderator
#21 Posted by Vance Astro (91357 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto said:

@Death Certificate said:

@Reptilicus: Until Revengeance comes out, yeah Ryu should win

I still disagree. Ryu is comparable to Raiden in speed, judging by those videos, but what about strength? Durability? Skill? Raiden spent the entirety of MGS2 making fools out of the most elite military group in the business, and that was while he was still a rookie with no ninja training.

See, I can post a bunch of random videos too ^.^

Ninja Gaiden Bosses>Metal Gear Bosses
Moderator
#22 Edited by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Death Certificate said:

@Reptilicus: Until Revengeance comes out, yeah Ryu should win

I still disagree. Ryu is comparable to Raiden in speed, judging by those videos, but what about strength? Durability? Skill? Raiden spent the entirety of MGS2 making fools out of the most elite military group in the business, and that was while he was still a rookie with no ninja training.

See, I can post a bunch of random videos too ^.^

Ninja Gaiden Bosses>Metal Gear Bosses

Really that simple? Because Metal Gear bosses consist of psychics, immortals, giant mechs, 100 tonner cyborgs, and invisible super soldiers.

In any case, this isn't boss vs boss, this is Ryu vs Raiden. It seems everyone is in agreeance that Raiden wins, but so far no one has bothered to say why, and everyone I asked has dodged the question.

That's the problem with Comic Vine. No one even debates anymore outside of tournaments.

EDIT: I mean, everyone is in agreeance that Ryu wins.

#23 Edited by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Depends if you watched all of the videos, but most of them shows Ryu slaughtering ninjas, military groups, robots and giants monsters.

#24 Posted by Eightworldwarriors (57 posts) - - Show Bio

MGS4 Raiden was a complete joke. He had so much trouble with Vamp who is also a joke. It's hilarious that human Raiden beat Vamp 3 times but Cyborg Raiden had so much trouble with him

Ryu would kill Raiden and Vamp in an instant. Before they could blink their heads would separated from their shoulders and on a pike,.

So the question is can Raiden fight with his head lobbed off? No? I didn't think so

#25 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

It was page 216 btw, just for the record.

Raiden used his free hand to swiftly pluck out the daggers, returning them to Vamp with machine-gun speed.

Now that that is settled,

@Death Certificate said:

@nickzambuto: Depends if you watched all of the videos, but most of them shows Ryu slaughtering ninjas, military groups, robots and giants monsters.

I admit, I may have skimmed :P

C'mon, 5, 20 minute videos is a bit much to ask.

Now, I'm gonna be a bit more direct: Raiden's greatest strength feat is holding back a giant warship. His greatest speed feat is deflecting bullets before becoming a cyborg, and afterwards he moved faster than the human eye can see. He doesn't feel pain - or at least, doesn't react, and he recieved extensive sword training by Native American Shamons, and even before that he beat Solidus Snake in a sword fight, who cut down machine gun fire with his swords and had a powered exoskeleton.

Those videos make me believe Ryu can keep up with Raiden in speed. What about everything else? I posted random videos too, and I do believe they can match the ones you posted, more or less.

#26 Posted by Vance Astro (91357 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto said:

Really that simple? Because Metal Gear bosses consist of psychics, immortals, giant mechs, 100 tonner cyborgs, and invisible super soldiers.

Many of which were taken down by Solid Snake whom is not even a remotely comparable physical specimen to Hayabusa. 
 
@nickzambuto said:

In any case, this isn't boss vs boss, this is Ryu vs Raiden. It seems everyone is in agreeance that Raiden wins, but so far no one has bothered to say why, and everyone I asked has dodged the question.

You don't have to tell me what this is. I know how battle forums work. The point I was making is that Ryu Hayabusa's feats just like Raiden's are in the challenges they've faced. I think that Ninja Gaiden's bosses and their regular enemies are superior to those on any Metal Gear. Also I think Ryu has better attacks at his disposal. In DOA (which I believe is canon to his story) he released an energy blast that destroyed 3 helicopters at once.
 
@nickzambuto said:

That's the problem with Comic Vine. No one even debates anymore outside of tournaments.

Has nothing to do with me. I debate all the time and I almost never enter tournaments.
Moderator
#27 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

Many of which were taken down by Solid Snake whom is not even a remotely comparable physical specimen to Hayabusa.

Just goes to show how skilled Snake is. Dr. Doom was taken down by Captain America, so that's a moot point.

You don't have to tell me what this is. I know how battle forums work. The point I was making is that Ryu Hayabusa's feats just like Raiden's are in the challenges they've faced. I think that Ninja Gaiden's bosses and their regular enemies are superior to those on any Metal Gear. Also I think Ryu has better attacks at his disposal. In DOA (which I believe is canon to his story) he released an energy blast that destroyed 3 helicopters at once.

That's fine, but it'd be nice if you backed up your statements rather than just coming in the thread and saying "Ninja Gaiden>Metal Gear" than just vanishing.

What is this DOA? Is it something Ryu can just throw out at the drop of a dime? Who's to say Raiden can't dodge it?

Has nothing to do with me. I debate all the time and I almost never enter tournaments.

Then debate! Ryu's stats? His skill level and training? I know nothing about this character. Inform me oh your high modness. Maybe Ryu fights tougher enemies; who's to say Raiden can't fight the same?

#28 Edited by Eightworldwarriors (57 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

I admit, I may have skimmed :P

C'mon, 5, 20 minute videos is a bit much to ask.

Now, I'm gonna be a bit more direct: Raiden's greatest strength feat is holding back a giant warship. His greatest speed feat is deflecting bullets before becoming a cyborg, and afterwards he moved faster than the human eye can see. He doesn't feel pain - or at least, doesn't react, and he recieved extensive sword training by Native American Shamons, and even before that he beat Solidus Snake in a sword fight, who cut down machine gun fire with his swords and had a powered exoskeleton.

Those videos make me believe Ryu can keep up with Raiden in speed. What about everything else? I posted random videos too, and I do believe they can match the ones you posted, more or less.

Raiden holding back a giant warship is massive PIS and not consistent with the rest of his feats. Raiden has never canonically deflected bullets before or even after becoming a Cyborg. He was never faster than the human eye can see. He clearly feeels pain.

Those videos show that Ryu would run circles around MGS4 Raiden in speed. MGS4 fights were slow, clunky, and unimpressive.

Just goes to show how skilled Snake is. Dr. Doom was taken down by Captain America, so that's a moot point.

No, it just shows you how weak the bosses are and how Snake can take down with a combination of weapons and plot device ei plug controller in the other port. Doom was never taken down by Cap either

That's fine, but it'd be nice if you backed up your statements rather than just coming in the thread and saying "Ninja Gaiden>Metal Gear" than just vanishing.

What is this DOA? Is it something Ryu can just throw out at the drop of a dime? Who's to say Raiden can't dodge it?

Dead or Alive

Then debate! Ryu's stats? His skill level and training? I know nothing about this character. Inform me oh your high modness. Maybe Ryu fights tougher enemies; who's to say Raiden can't fight the same?

Because MGS4 Raiden had trouble with Vamp who's mediocre at best. Vamp isn't in the same leauge as the fodder in Ninja Gaiden let alone the bosses

Raiden used his free hand to swiftly pluck out the daggers, returning them to Vamp with machine-gun speed.

Machine gun speed, not machine gun rate. There's a difference

#29 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio
Raiden holding back a giant warship is massive PIS and not consistent with the rest of his feats.

It is, actually. Raiden break dances with three giant Gekkos swinging around his legs. He's the updated Gray Fox, who outmuscled Rex's leg. Raiden is plenty strong enough to hold back a ship for a few seconds.

Raiden has never canonically deflected bullets before or even after becoming a Cyborg.

Again, he did. It's a pretty vital mechanic during the actual section of the game, and Snake makes mention of it in CODEC.

He was never faster than the human eye can see.

And once again, he did. When he saved Snake from the Gekko at Shadow Moses.

5 minutes in, the Gekko raises it's foot to stomp Snake, and just as it begins coming down, Raiden cuts all three in a nanosecond.

He clearly feeels pain.

No he doesn't. If he did, he didn't seem to care. He gets the crap kicked, or should I say, cut out of him, but never falters.

#30 Posted by Eightworldwarriors (57 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

It is, actually. Raiden break dances with three giant Gekkos swinging around his legs. He's the updated Gray Fox, who outmuscled Rex's leg. Raiden is plenty strong enough to hold back a ship for a few seconds.

They same geckos that restrained him until Snake shot out one of the cables with a sniper rifle? Even if that was the case, swinging around a few 10-15 ton geckos doesn't constitute holding back a ship that weighs thousands of pounds. I could go through all of the strength inconsistencies in MGS4 and consistency proves that it's PIS.

Again, he did. It's a pretty vital mechanic during the actual section of the game, and Snake makes mention of it in CODEC.

It's about as valid as Big Boss holding up Zeke's leg. It's about as valid as Cambell calling you on the codec and telling you to plug the controller in port 2. This was also the same instance where Snake stated that his bandana gave him infinite ammo. Nothing valid about that, in fact you can go through the area without using the sword at all including using it to block. So technically Raiden would only deflect bullets based on weather the player is using the sword or not, hence making it a gameplay mechanic.

5 minutes in, the Gekko raises it's foot to stomp Snake, and just as it begins coming down, Raiden cuts all three in a nanosecond.

How do you know Snake didn't see him do this? It shows the screen going black for a minute. Hayabusa can move faster than the eye can see and that actually happens in cut scenes where the character can see what's going on. Your example is incredible vague.

No he doesn't. If he did, he didn't seem to care. He gets the crap kicked, or should I say, cut out of him, but never falters.

Right, because when he was coughing up blood, bleeding all over the place and needed a blood transfusion, I'm sure he didn't feel any of it =/

#31 Posted by Vance Astro (91357 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto said:

Just goes to show how skilled Snake is. Dr. Doom was taken down by Captain America, so that's a moot point.

It's not a moot point because the Cap reference is PIS. 

 @nickzambuto said:

That's fine, but it'd be nice if you backed up your statements rather than just coming in the thread and saying "Ninja Gaiden>Metal Gear" than just vanishing.

That's how I debate, I mostly never just put down a detailed response as soon as I come in a thread because I don't want to waste the time if nobody else is actually willing to. If someone actually cares about my response, the'll ask me to elaborate as you did.

@nickzambuto said:

What is this DOA? Is it something Ryu can just throw out at the drop of a dime? Who's to say Raiden can't dodge it?

First and foremost it was my mistake, Ryu didn't destroy all 3 helicopters with the energy blast he destroyed 1. He destroyed the others with his sword. This is from his ending in DOA 4 
  
Whether Raiden can dodge it or not, I guess would be left up to his skill. Even characters that have been seen dodging bullets can be shot depending on the shooter.   

@nickzambuto said:

Then debate! Ryu's stats? His skill level and training? I know nothing about this character. Inform me oh your high modness. Maybe Ryu fights tougher enemies; who's to say Raiden can't fight the same?

Well for fighting skill let's talk DOA. Ryu is part of a tournament with some of the best fighters in the world and out of all of them he has some of the best showings. He won the second DOA tournament when he killed Tengu who is a powerful creature from another Dimension and the games boss. In the second tournament he also defeated Ein\Hayate who is the best fighter,the most powerful and leader of the Mugen Tenshin clan. If we move to Ninja Gaiden he's taken down mostly every boss by himself and many of them I think would be out of Raiden's league. For instance in the first Ninja Gaiden Ryu faces a master Ninja Murai and at the end of the game he becomes a demon fiend and you have to fight him again and now he's alot stronger, he can teleport, he has super speed, he throws projectiles at will and I believe he can even use his sword without touching it (in other words it floats and attacks at his command).
Moderator
#32 Posted by Eightworldwarriors (57 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: He also beat Genshin in NG2, That guy would rip Raiden in half

#33 Posted by Vance Astro (91357 posts) - - Show Bio
@Eightworldwarriors said:

@Vance Astro: He also beat Genshin in NG2, That guy would rip Raiden in half

Yea, Genshin was a monster.
Moderator
#34 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5479 posts) - - Show Bio

Hayabusa

#35 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

The Singular Super Ninja wins.

#36 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: 5 to 20mins is quicker than having to explain everything :P

Ryu is better than your average ninja, trained since his childhood, ryu pushes himself past the human limits. Raiden out muscles ryu in strength, but ryu has fought against many beings that greater strength than he does.

Ryu has dodged missiles at point blank range and even jumped between fighter jets at mach 2 speeds.

#37 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@nickzambuto said:

Just goes to show how skilled Snake is. Dr. Doom was taken down by Captain America, so that's a moot point.

It's not a moot point because the Cap reference is PIS.

@nickzambuto said:

That's fine, but it'd be nice if you backed up your statements rather than just coming in the thread and saying "Ninja Gaiden>Metal Gear" than just vanishing.

That's how I debate, I mostly never just put down a detailed response as soon as I come in a thread because I don't want to waste the time if nobody else is actually willing to. If someone actually cares about my response, the'll ask me to elaborate as you did.

@nickzambuto said:

What is this DOA? Is it something Ryu can just throw out at the drop of a dime? Who's to say Raiden can't dodge it?

First and foremost it was my mistake, Ryu didn't destroy all 3 helicopters with the energy blast he destroyed 1. He destroyed the others with his sword. This is from his ending in DOA 4
Whether Raiden can dodge it or not, I guess would be left up to his skill. Even characters that have been seen dodging bullets can be shot depending on the shooter.

@nickzambuto said:

Then debate! Ryu's stats? His skill level and training? I know nothing about this character. Inform me oh your high modness. Maybe Ryu fights tougher enemies; who's to say Raiden can't fight the same?

Well for fighting skill let's talk DOA. Ryu is part of a tournament with some of the best fighters in the world and out of all of them he has some of the best showings. He won the second DOA tournament when he killed Tengu who is a powerful creature from another Dimension and the games boss. In the second tournament he also defeated Ein\Hayate who is the best fighter,the most powerful and leader of the Mugen Tenshin clan. If we move to Ninja Gaiden he's taken down mostly every boss by himself and many of them I think would be out of Raiden's league. For instance in the first Ninja Gaiden Ryu faces a master Ninja Murai and at the end of the game he becomes a demon fiend and you have to fight him again and now he's alot stronger, he can teleport, he has super speed, he throws projectiles at will and I believe he can even use his sword without touching it (in other words it floats and attacks at his command).

And you're sure that ending is completely canon? If DoA is anything like MvC, or Street Fighter, each character has their own unique ending depending on who you played as.

Either way, that attack moved pretty darn slowly if I do say so. It's really not anything Raiden will have to worry about.

Vamp is an immortal vampire who soloed an entire Navy SEAL Unit without effort. He's fast enough to vanish from thin air, and is a master knife fighter. He's been shot, beat, stabbed, burned, crushed, and even drowned - nothing ever stops him. He doesn't even need to breath.

Raiden's H/F Blade resonates at such high frequencys that any stab inflicted upon Vamp should of very well liquified all his organs, but in minutes he's 100%

IMO, destroying a fleet of Gekko is much more difficult than three helecopters.

@Death Certificate said:

@nickzambuto: 5 to 20mins is quicker than having to explain everything :P

Ryu is better than your average ninja, trained since his childhood, ryu pushes himself past the human limits. Raiden out muscles ryu in strength, but ryu has fought against many beings that greater strength than he does.

Ryu has dodged missiles at point blank range and even jumped between fighter jets at mach 2 speeds.

Well Raiden was training since childhood too, he held his first AK when he was 4 and was a trained killer before going through puberty. So that's no advantage to Ryu.

Raiden is insanely durable. He was stabbed twice before his fight with Vamp even started; one going right through where his heart would be. But he was still just dandy during the battle. Raiden can take dozens of swipes and slashes before falling, can Ryu say the same? With equal skill, but superior strength to Raiden, Ryu is at a severe disadvantage.

#38 Posted by Hyperlight (6329 posts) - - Show Bio

I watched the video with raiden swinging the mechs and that was very impressive, but other than that there is nothing to make me believe that he would bet ryu. Ryu is much more powerful and controls spiritual otherworldly energies; he also has insane physical attributes that would allow him to defeat most cyborgs. his skill is ridicoulous and seems to surpass raidens. Did the OP take away ryu's ninpo?

then again i know much more about ryu than raiden so my opinion is a lil iffy.

#39 Posted by Eightworldwarriors (57 posts) - - Show Bio

Raidou is another character that would rip the fake ninja to shreds

#40 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Ryu is skilled almost every close combat weapons. Ryu getting stabbed is a causal thing compared to the things he goes through.

Despite being weakened the 3rd game, Ryu was still strong enough to slaughter the military and a giant demon even without dragon sword.

@Hyperlight said:

I watched the video with raiden swinging the mechs and that was very impressive, but other than that there is nothing to make me believe that he would bet ryu. Ryu is much more powerful and controls spiritual otherworldly energies; he also has insane physical attributes that would allow him to defeat most cyborgs. his skill is ridicoulous and seems to surpass raidens. Did the OP take away ryu's ninpo?

then again i know much more about ryu than raiden so my opinion is a lil iffy.

Nope

#41 Posted by Vance Astro (91357 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto said:

And you're sure that ending is completely canon? If DoA is anything like MvC, or Street Fighter, each character has their own unique ending depending on who you played as.

Either way, that attack moved pretty darn slowly if I do say so. It's really not anything Raiden will have to worry about.

Yes, I'm positive that DOA is canon. It's nothing like MVC, it's not a crossover. DOA is simply a story within the same universe as Ninja Gaiden. Also in Street Fighter, every character had their own unique ending but most endings are canon and don't contradict each other. 
 
My argument about dodging Ryu's attack remains the same. Raiden may be able to dodge bullets but depending on the shooter, he could get shot. It all depends on the skill of the user. Ryu has the chance to pull off the use of a projectile by way of skill. The idea that Raiden will dodge it every time, I don't think is plausible. 
 
@nickzambuto said:

Vamp is an immortal vampire who soloed an entire Navy SEAL Unit without effort. He's fast enough to vanish from thin air, and is a master knife fighter. He's been shot, beat, stabbed, burned, crushed, and even drowned - nothing ever stops him. He doesn't even need to breath.

I don't think he's more powerful than Murai though. 
 
@nickzambuto said:

IMO, destroying a fleet of Gekko is much more difficult than three helecopters..

It is but I wasn't comparing those feats specifically. I was only pointing out that Ryu had an attack that destroys helicopters instantly. That's also not the extent of his power either, that's a basic attack from him. Ryu has a bunch of other Ninpo techniques that generate powerful offensive and defensive power. For instance there is the "Art of the Ice Storm" that creates a storm around him that freezes enemies. 
Moderator
#42 Edited by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

My argument about dodging Ryu's attack remains the same. Raiden may be able to dodge bullets but depending on the shooter, he could get shot. It all depends on the skill of the user. Ryu has the chance to pull off the use of a projectile by way of skill. The idea that Raiden will dodge it every time, I don't think is plausible.

You're saying Ryu is a Deadshot level shooter? Because he'll need to be that accurate to hit Raiden with that attack. I suppose it's possible that they can fight back and forth until Ryu sees an opening, then he can spring it, but considering Raiden's immense speed and resistence to damage, I doubt he'll ever faulter to the point where he'll be tagged,

He may not dodge every time, but he won't get tagged every time either.

During his knife fight with Vamp, Raiden gets disarmed and his two knives stuck in each wrist, but a testament to his skill is that he just keeps fighting with the knives stuck inside him, parrying and countering everything Vamp throws out by using the knives in his hands.

After killing the immortal and suffering dozens of stab wounds, some knives still sticking out of his body, Raiden can effortlessly fight off dozens of suicide Gekko to secure Snake's escape inside REX, then after getting pinned under the rubble he manages to cut off his own arm and hold back the 1,000 ton war ship.

The Ninja Gaiden bosses are big, but skimming through them I saw Ryu do nothing Raiden couldn't do.

#43 Edited by Eightworldwarriors (57 posts) - - Show Bio

Raiden has never actually shown himself to be a bullet timer. Raiden doesn't have a high level of durability either since he needed a blood transfusion after his fight with Vamp.

You put Raiden against a character like Murai, Genshin or Raidou and Raiden would get murdered in about 3 seconds, these are real ninja's with real mystical power and not some wannabe Ninja who can barely fight off a fake Vampire.

So lets look at this objectively

You have a character who is actually skilled, can move faster than the eye can see, can leave after images of himself, fights demons, devils, gods, and other elite real ninjas

Or

A fake ninja who struggles to fight a guy with a regeneration so watered down he gets taken down with individual bullets

One sided fight, it really is

#44 Posted by Laurcus (1303 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

My argument about dodging Ryu's attack remains the same. Raiden may be able to dodge bullets but depending on the shooter, he could get shot. It all depends on the skill of the user. Ryu has the chance to pull off the use of a projectile by way of skill. The idea that Raiden will dodge it every time, I don't think is plausible.

You're saying Ryu is a Deadshot level shooter? Because he'll need to be that accurate to hit Raiden with that attack. I suppose it's possible that they can fight back and forth until Ryu sees an opening, then he can spring it, but considering Raiden's immense speed and resistence to damage, I doubt he'll ever faulter to the point where he'll be tagged,

He may not dodge every time, but he won't get tagged every time either.

During his knife fight with Vamp, Raiden gets disarmed and his two knives stuck in each wrist, but a testament to his skill is that he just keeps fighting with the knives stuck inside him, parrying and countering everything Vamp throws out by using the knives in his hands.

After killing the immortal and suffering dozens of stab wounds, some knives still sticking out of his body, Raiden can effortlessly fight off dozens of suicide Gekko to secure Snake's escape inside REX, then after getting pinned under the rubble he manages to cut off his own arm and hold back the 1,000 ton war ship.

The Ninja Gaiden bosses are big, but skimming through them I saw Ryu do nothing Raiden couldn't do.

Ryu is fast enough that he regularly leaves behind multiple afterimages when he fights. And regardless of Ryu's ranged attacks, he has some other abilities that I think would be too much for Raiden. He has this move called The Storm of the Heavenly Dragon where he attacks so fast he seems to disappear entirely, leaving only a series of blue afterimages behind that fly through the air pretty much all at once and slash his enemy about 10 times before he reappears.

I don't think Raiden would survive a Storm of the Heavenly Dragon. I also don't think he'd survive an Art of the Fire Wheels, which is a Ninpo that Ryu can use to surround his body with fireballs. Anything that gets close to him gets hit in the face with said fireballs. Oh, and just to be clear, Ryu isn't completely Human. He's basically a demigod since he shares blood with the original 4 deities that Gurdu split himself into to banish the Dark Dragon and the other evil deities to the underworld.

#45 Posted by nickzambuto (14387 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@nickzambuto said:

My argument about dodging Ryu's attack remains the same. Raiden may be able to dodge bullets but depending on the shooter, he could get shot. It all depends on the skill of the user. Ryu has the chance to pull off the use of a projectile by way of skill. The idea that Raiden will dodge it every time, I don't think is plausible.

You're saying Ryu is a Deadshot level shooter? Because he'll need to be that accurate to hit Raiden with that attack. I suppose it's possible that they can fight back and forth until Ryu sees an opening, then he can spring it, but considering Raiden's immense speed and resistence to damage, I doubt he'll ever faulter to the point where he'll be tagged,

He may not dodge every time, but he won't get tagged every time either.

During his knife fight with Vamp, Raiden gets disarmed and his two knives stuck in each wrist, but a testament to his skill is that he just keeps fighting with the knives stuck inside him, parrying and countering everything Vamp throws out by using the knives in his hands.

After killing the immortal and suffering dozens of stab wounds, some knives still sticking out of his body, Raiden can effortlessly fight off dozens of suicide Gekko to secure Snake's escape inside REX, then after getting pinned under the rubble he manages to cut off his own arm and hold back the 1,000 ton war ship.

The Ninja Gaiden bosses are big, but skimming through them I saw Ryu do nothing Raiden couldn't do.

Ryu is fast enough that he regularly leaves behind multiple afterimages when he fights. And regardless of Ryu's ranged attacks, he has some other abilities that I think would be too much for Raiden. He has this move called The Storm of the Heavenly Dragon where he attacks so fast he seems to disappear entirely, leaving only a series of blue afterimages behind that fly through the air pretty much all at once and slash his enemy about 10 times before he reappears.

I don't think Raiden would survive a Storm of the Heavenly Dragon. I also don't think he'd survive an Art of the Fire Wheels, which is a Ninpo that Ryu can use to surround his body with fireballs. Anything that gets close to him gets hit in the face with said fireballs. Oh, and just to be clear, Ryu isn't completely Human. He's basically a demigod since he shares blood with the original 4 deities that Gurdu split himself into to banish the Dark Dragon and the other evil deities to the underworld.

Well, Raiden and Vamp's regular combat speed is about equal to Ryu's Heavenly Dragon, going by your description. They each regularly move faster than the eye can see and almost teleport, I showed one example of Raiden dismembering several Gekko in a heartbeat on the previous page.

#46 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

Since things have changed dramatically Raiden wins now

#47 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5479 posts) - - Show Bio

Raiden wins. Jack the Ripper laughs cutting Hayabusa to shreds.

#48 Posted by DTFB (192 posts) - - Show Bio

New Raiden wins

#49 Posted by SlimJ87D (10556 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

nope raiden doesn't win, hayabusa still wins here.