Quicksilver (MCU) vs Flash (CW)

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Nomar

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#151  Edited By Nomar

@acrokat: The punch that hurt Girder required a massive speed build up. Funny thing is, Girder reacted to it but wasn't fast enough to do anything about it. Flash broke his hand with that punch and was down for the count. Girder got up and only lost because Iris punched him out. Based on feats, Pietro would need no speed build up. He has the striking power to point blank punch Girder out.

Grodd also reacted to flash building up speed. Getting the pattern here? Grodd has absolutely no superhuman speed to speak of. He caught Barry's punch. Barry's strongest attack is so telegraphed that normal speed people can react to it.

Flash punches like a teenage boy who doesn't work out. His fight against Everyman proves that even a barrage of his super speed punches barely hurts a person of normal durability.

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@nomar: Girder was in his metal skin which grants him superhuman durability and makes him bulletproof. Quicksilver isn't bulletproof is he? If not then he'd be eviscerated by that. And if by "reacted" you mean "knocked flat on his butt" then yeah that's what happened. If you're referring to Girder turning around that was because he heard the noise Barry made from the buildup.

Grodd has superhuman speed. He's a gorilla. Normal gorillas are much faster and have way faster reflexes than "normal speed people" and Grodd is physically above normal gorillas. If Pietro tries to block/catch Barry while he does that attack he'd be, as I said above, killed. If Pietro tries to avoid the attack... well he wouldn't. Barry is too fast for him. Quicksilver look as if he's stuck in molasses to Barry, and if he can't avoid getting shot then he won't avoid the attack in which Barry can just speed up/turn during and hit him.

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egwGRVEBF

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Peitro gets blitzed. He is nearly as fast as a bullet. Barry+faster than light.

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jwalser3

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#154  Edited By jwalser3

@klaus: I-I know. That's still impressive that he was able to grab the handle. Slowing it down and it sending him flying is irrelevant.

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@nomar:

Girder>>>>>>>>>>QS in durability.

The punch used on Girder is Mach 1. Barry is now more than 300 times that.

Girder has actual resistance feats. Ultron Fodderbots were killed by arrows and BW's h2h. Ergo Barry's max output>Pietro's even before we consider that he's now 300+ times faster than he was when he hit Girder.

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@acrokat: And what about Grodd, who didn't seem to have any real enhanced speed in this version, catching the sonic punch with no problem or outright grabbing Barry out of a speed blitz when he should be a statue to him? I fully agree that Barry, when taken on his abilities alone, should win this, but the part of the OP that says 'in character' means that all the CIS that Barry usually suffers from applies here. And with that, he most definitely loses

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#157  Edited By comicfan11

Flash annihilates Pietro.

CW FLash would have time to save Hawkeye, paint his house, make a coffee and order take out before Pietro could realize what happened.

The difference in power level is honestly very big.

OTOH Pietro was awesome character wise in AoU and I would rather watch him punch bad guys in the face than listen to CW Flash mop around or have any cringeworthy dialogue scene with Iris (easily one of the worst actresses on mainstream TV).

Also Grodd reacted because he also has telepathy and realized what was coming before Flash was even in sight. That's why he knew Flash was running towards him and started charging against him, while Flash was miles away.

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dontevenblink

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@nicksmi56: yeah, that part totally caught me off guard... they didn't really explain how he did it, but whatever it was, sort of discounts the point of bringing up the long-range punch in this discussion. there wasn't even a shock-wave or anything. lol

but anyway, another thing to consider is that Barry is holding back all the time. Pietro might have a slower top speed, but he hits people/things like he actually means it.

@nomar said:

@acrokat: The punch that hurt Girder required a massive speed build up. Funny thing is, Girder reacted to it but wasn't fast enough to do anything about it. Flash broke his hand with that punch and was down for the count. Girder got up and only lost because Iris punched him out. Based on feats, Pietro would need no speed build up. He has the striking power to point blank punch Girder out.

Grodd also reacted to flash building up speed. Getting the pattern here? Grodd has absolutely no superhuman speed to speak of. He caught Barry's punch. Barry's strongest attack is so telegraphed that normal speed people can react to it.

Flash punches like a teenage boy who doesn't work out. His fight against Everyman proves that even a barrage of his super speed punches barely hurts a person of normal durability.

this. not only was Everyman reacting to him and landing hits, but Barry's hits weren't doing that much for most of the fight. Pietro would have one-shotted him and said, "what, you didn't see that coming?" and been on his marry way.

Barry's reaction time and abilities are so inconsistent for the sake of the plot it's really getting ridiculous. remember when he did that monologue to Iris in one of the first episodes but didn't have any speed force lightning or gust of wind behind him? lol

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Heaven_Sings7

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@thor_parker82 No he can't win, Flash is now fast enough to break the time barrier and travel to the past atleast one day, this >>> Quicksilver's speed and his feats

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Heaven_Sings7

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#160  Edited By Heaven_Sings7

@fallingcliffs said:

Flash will win, has gone wayyy faster then MCU QS. Barry also has better feats and durability.

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Ohh nice ! breaking the time barrier

@thor_parker82 watch the third gif, he is now fast enough to time travel

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@comicfan11 said:

Flash annihilates Pietro.

CW FLash would have time to save Hawkeye, paint his house, make a coffee and order take out before Pietro could realize what happened.

The difference in power level is honestly very big.

OTOH Pietro was awesome character wise in AoU and I would rather watch him punch bad guys in the face than listen to CW Flash mop around or have any cringeworthy dialogue scene with Iris (easily one of the worst actresses on mainstream TV).

Also Grodd reacted because he also has telepathy and realized what was coming before Flash was even in sight. That's why he knew Flash was running towards him and started charging against him, while Flash was miles away.

Barry had the telepathy blocking helmet on when he tried the sonic punch, so no, Grodd wouldn't know what was coming. Barry's just being inconsistent yet again.

@heaven_sings7 said:

@thor_parker82 No he can't win, Flash is now fast enough to break the time barrier and travel to the past atleast one day, this >>> Quicksilver's speed and his feats

He's not fast enough to time travel consistently. He did that entirely by accident by pushing himself to his farthest limits. In character Barry won't do that.

@dontevenblink said:

@nicksmi56: yeah, that part totally caught me off guard... they didn't really explain how he did it, but whatever it was, sort of discounts the point of bringing up the long-range punch in this discussion. there wasn't even a shock-wave or anything. lol

but anyway, another thing to consider is that Barry is holding back all the time. Pietro might have a slower top speed, but he hits people/things like he actually means it.

@nomar said:

@acrokat: The punch that hurt Girder required a massive speed build up. Funny thing is, Girder reacted to it but wasn't fast enough to do anything about it. Flash broke his hand with that punch and was down for the count. Girder got up and only lost because Iris punched him out. Based on feats, Pietro would need no speed build up. He has the striking power to point blank punch Girder out.

Grodd also reacted to flash building up speed. Getting the pattern here? Grodd has absolutely no superhuman speed to speak of. He caught Barry's punch. Barry's strongest attack is so telegraphed that normal speed people can react to it.

Flash punches like a teenage boy who doesn't work out. His fight against Everyman proves that even a barrage of his super speed punches barely hurts a person of normal durability.

this. not only was Everyman reacting to him and landing hits, but Barry's hits weren't doing that much for most of the fight. Pietro would have one-shotted him and said, "what, you didn't see that coming?" and been on his marry way.

Barry's reaction time and abilities are so inconsistent for the sake of the plot it's really getting ridiculous. remember when he did that monologue to Iris in one of the first episodes but didn't have any speed force lightning or gust of wind behind him? lol

This. Barry simply isn't smart enough or consistently fast enough to pull out a win.

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Nomar

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The Flash side seems to be arguing top speeds and out of combat capability more than anything else. It's as if we watch different shows. Everybody on the QS side has already conceded that Flash has better top speeds. We know this. The problem is in battle, Flash wouldn't even be able to beat Cap. That's how pathetic he is in combat. Based on showings, Cap would even be able to react to Barry's build up punch.

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#163 Lunacyde  Moderator

@lunacyde: that's kinda the problem. Honestly, save for RF and Grodd (wtf did he go?), I wouldnt have minded of they took a shot at bringing in new, legitimately contendable villains to try and help bring some balance to a series that already requires a heavy amount of suspension of disbelief. I get that they're trying to stay somewhat canon and butcher it at the same time, but Flash doesn't exactly have the most impressive rogues gallery to work with...I honestly really like the show but some scenes are admittedly excruciating. It's like he's bipolar.

Well they should have at least mentioned Captain Cold's Cold field slowing flash down, that would make that at least more believable.

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comicfan11

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@nicksmi56: Wrong.

The helmet didn't prevent Grodd from locating Barry and trying to attack him.

It just prevented the attack from having any effect.

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@nicksmi56: I partially explained why Grodd was able to do that. Gorillas have faster reflexes than humans and Grodd is physically superior to any normal gorilla. Grodd also has amazing durability and strength so he was able to catch Barry's attack. He couldn't move but only reposition himself in time. Pietro would be killed by the attack if he tries to catch it and if he tries to move away from it Barry could just turn or rebound and hit him. Seriously Pietro is slower than Barry in every category, he was running through the fodder that Black Widow and Hawkeye were stomping, but none of those fodder compare to The Flash. He won't be able to even land a hit on him considering he was stated to be as fast as a bullet.

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@comicfan11: Ever watch Naruto? "It doesn't matter if your mind can perceive something if your body is too slow to react to it."

Grodd, who is never established to have superhuman speed, could react to it. He caught it. And as someone else pointed out above, even Girder himself reacted to it. Do you really think Quicksilver will get hit by it if Grodd wasn't? Plus, that attack relies on Quicksilver standing still for a while while Barry runs away and comes back, which isn't happening.

And in combat, Barry is regularly beat up by people way slower than him (Oliver, Everyman). Couple that with his absolutely terrible durability and power output and Quicksilver will take him out with a punch, which he will land because of how awful a fighter Barry is.

Barry's just not winning this fight in character. Bloodlusted, maybe (even though the Oliver fight casts some confusion on that), but in character Barry is going to get flattened.

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@acrokat: And again I point you to Oliver Queen and Everyman, who are both slower than bullets, but managed to get hits on Barry. This isn't a race. This is a fight. And as fast as Barry is, he's been established to be a horrible fighter.

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@nicksmi56: Grodd was hit by it... he just caught it because of his superhuman stats (even speed and reflexes, he's a gorilla) Quicksilver won't do the same.

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@acrokat: Catching it is definitely not the same as being hit by it. And him being a gorilla has nothing to do with it. You can't assume he has superhuman speed based off that. In that same fight, he was a statue to Barry when he tricked him into getting hit by the train. Do you know how fast Barry is?

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w0nd

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#171  Edited By w0nd

In character flash sucks, he's a horrible fighter. I believe this to be for show purposes only

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@comicfan11: Ever watch Naruto? "It doesn't matter if your mind can perceive something if your body is too slow to react to it."

Grodd, who is never established to have superhuman speed, could react to it. He caught it. And as someone else pointed out above, even Girder himself reacted to it. Do you really think Quicksilver will get hit by it if Grodd wasn't? Plus, that attack relies on Quicksilver standing still for a while while Barry runs away and comes back, which isn't happening.

And in combat, Barry is regularly beat up by people way slower than him (Oliver, Everyman). Couple that with his absolutely terrible durability and power output and Quicksilver will take him out with a punch, which he will land because of how awful a fighter Barry is.

Barry's just not winning this fight in character. Bloodlusted, maybe (even though the Oliver fight casts some confusion on that), but in character Barry is going to get flattened.

I don't watch anime. Tried and couldn't stand it (One Piece, some episodes of Naruto, a Bleach movie and some TV reruns of Dragon Ball - don't know or care which series).

Their rules have no bearing here anyway. Their depiction of powers is hilariously all over the place.

Also every time Flash is tagged is either because he is "discovering" or "testing" his powers or simply holding back, so that there is a script for 20+ episodes.

Fact is CW Flash is FTL while Pietro is not faster than a bullet.

Also Grodd is a super gorilla with enhanced physical attributes.

Finally Quuicksilver has normal human durability.

No point for Barry to try and strike him the same way he did Grodd or Girder.

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Heaven_Sings7

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@nicksmi56: Flash's time traveling feat/breaking the time barrier far outshines QS and his speed, no matter how you look at it

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#174  Edited By Heaven_Sings7

@w0nd said:

In character flash sucks, he's a horrible fighter. I believe this to be for show purposes only

True, he jobs too much, do you thing current Barry is now faster or as fast as current Wells/Eobard ? he has gotten faster than when they last fought to the point of being able to break the time barrier, something which current Reverse Flash has not shown to do

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Combat speed feats> speed feats however he has experience vs another speedster but he did get stomped tbh but the experience is an advantage

Barry has a raw speed advantage, put his striking strength and fighting skills are poor, he lets himself get hit every fight to the point it isn't pis he's just bad at applying his speed in combat,

Pietro speed blitzed a room with cap in t and cap has reaction feats plus he was the last one Pietro hit in the room, he had good striking feats and was able to punch metal without any pain to himself, plus in the one of the more recent flash episodes he failed to stop all bullets shot at the guy who was appearing to be wells, Pietro was able to react to a bullet and disarm the gun at the same time, plus his combat speed was good and didn't really get tagged in the film

For now until flash is more efficient at combat, Pietro wins

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#176  Edited By Nomar

@comicfan11: No no no no no. Holding back is nonsense. It's as if you don't watch the show. He takes his fights seriously. He's just a terrible fighter. There is absolutely nothing enhanced about Grodds speed. The episode makes this quite clear. Same way there is nothing enhanced about Girders speed. QS does not have normal human durability. Did you even watch the movie? A normal human isn't being riddled with gattling gun fire and still moving and talking. He's also faster than a bullet. He caught the bullet Klaus fired in the air took the gun out of his hand, emptied the magazine and arranged all the bullets on a table, before Klaus even knew what happened. He also saw the bullet in very slow motion when it was fired from beneath him. He was confused as to why a bullet was coming from under him. Again you bring up top speed, when it makes no difference to this topic. With his battle capabilities he couldn't even hurt or beat Cap.

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@heaven_sings7: @comicfan11:Top speed does not matter in a fight where one of the fighters is hilariously bad at fighting. And he wasn't "discovering" his powers when he got slugged by Oliver. He was actually bloodlusted at the time. Nor was he going through some kind of transition when fighting Everyman. He's just really bad at using his speed while fighting, which would be his undoing in this fight. And once again, time travel is not something in character Barry consistently does.

Combat speed feats> speed feats

Barry has a raw speed advantage, put his striking strength and fighting skills are poor, he lets himself get hit every fight to the point it isn't pis he's just bad at applying his speed in combat,

Pietro speed blitzed a room with cap in t and cap has reaction feats plus he was the last one Pietro hit in the room, he had good striking feats and was able to punch metal without any pain to himself, plus in the one of the more recent flash episodes he failed to stop all bullets shot at the guy who was appearing to be wells, Pietro was able to react to a bullet and disarm the gun at the same time, plus his combat speed was good and didn't really get tagged in the film

This

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Nomar

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#178  Edited By Nomar

@heaven_sings7: Their powers are not the same. My memory is fuzzy but have they described RF flash powers to be like in the comics? He is not as fast as Eobard is currently though, as proven when Eobard took Eddy.

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Flash takes it.

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@nomar said:

@comicfan11: No no no no no. Holding back is nonsense. It's as if you don't watch the show. He takes his fights seriously. He's just a terrible fighter. There is absolutely nothing enhanced about Grodds speed. The episode makes this quite clear. Same way there is nothing enhanced about Girders speed. QS does not have normal human durability. Did you even watch the movie? A normal human isn't being riddled with gattling gun fire and still moving and talking. He's also faster than a bullet. He caught the bullet Klaus fired in the air took the gun out of his hand, emptied the magazine and arranged all the bullets on a table, before Klaus even knew what happened. He also saw the bullet in very slow motion when it was fired from beneath him. He was confused as to why a bullet was coming from under him. Again you bring up top speed, when it makes no difference to this topic. With his battle capabilities he couldn't even hurt or beat Cap.

I saw the movie yesterday actually.

LOL please show me or tell me where exactly is said that there is anything normal about Grodd.

I'll wait. Good luck with that. The only thing we know is that he is a super Gorilla.

Also QS got hit by bullets and died.

Pretty standard for a guy with human durability like Pietro.

Tell me when current Flash is hit by bullets. I'll wait.

Finally did you just say that top speed makes no difference in this topic????

LOL.

It makes all the difference. Flash is faster than Pietro. Flash wins

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@jwalser3 said:

@klaus: I-I know. That's still impressive that he was able to grab the handle. Slowing it down and it sending him flying is irrelevant.

It wasn't impressive at all. Before the slow motion kicked in and Thor threw his hammer, he threw it at speeds a normal human eye could track. Touching it would require super human speed, but its hardly impressive compared to other feats these characters have like catching bullets out of air.

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@nomar said:

@heaven_sings7: Their powers are not the same. My memory is fuzzy but have they described RF flash powers to be like in the comics? He is not as fast as Eobard is currently though, as proven when Eobard took Eddy.

Lol when he took Eddy he had a huge head start though, and yea RF's powers are just like in the comics Tom Cavanagh(Well's actor) explained in an interview that RF has his own negative speed force

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@comicfan11: Flash is faster than Grodd and Everyman so of course he totally dominated those fights......oh wait

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#184  Edited By w0nd

@heaven_sings7 said:
@w0nd said:

In character flash sucks, he's a horrible fighter. I believe this to be for show purposes only

True, he jobs too much, do you thing current Barry is now faster or as fast as current Wells/Eobard ? he has gotten faster than when they last fought to the point of being able to break the time barrier, something which current Reverse Flash has not shown to do

I think wells is still faster, i honestly think he will use barrys speed to boost himself. no matter how fast barry is wells will be faster. I obviously am just guessing this. I think barry is definately faster when he broke the time barrier. They said he was but he still didn't travel through time in the episode after, so it has more to do with just speed. It's things like him not being able to run behind captain cold and punch him before he realizes what happens, which makes the flash look bad. He doesn't even have a cold field in this show.... Super jobber

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@nicksmi56: Flash is faster than Quicksilver and Pietro has normal human durability.

Simple as that.

Flash only has to avoid him and land some hits.

And don't get me wrong I'd rather watch a tv series for AoU QS than CW FLash, but QS ain't winning in a fight.

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#186  Edited By Nomar

@comicfan11: You need explicit statements telling you exactly what Grodd is in stats? If you don't get them you make them up? He's shown to move at normal speeds. Use your eyes, unless you need everything spelled out for you. The only stats Grodd clearly has are enhanced durability and strength. I don't need to tell you when Flash is hit by bullets, he's consistently hit by things and projectiles much slower than bullets. Top speed doesn't matter at all in this topic. His out of combat speed makes no transition over to his combat. If you think being killed by bullets means someone durability is standard than you must not even read comics. Many super human characters are not bullet proof yet have super human durability. Also if you're still moving after having high calibre bullets penetrate every part of your body and can punch through steel like tissue paper without harming yourself, you are not of normal human durability. At this point I'm not even sure you just haven't drawn a line in the sand based on who you like more as a character. You seem to ignore actual showings.

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Heaven_Sings7

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@w0nd: Well when future Flash fought Thawne around little Barry and Nora in his childhood home, they seemed pretty even, each landing hits on the other, but Reverse Flash has gotten much slower from that time after he was fully depleted of speed force energy and lost his super speed completely, he even needed to recharge himself or his suit with a tachyon device

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@comicfan11: He landed dozens of hits on Oliver Queen and Everyman, who have normal human durability, without doing any real damage. And we've established his own durability is garbage so Quicksilver only needs one good hit to take him down. And we've already seen that he's bad at avoiding hits from people far slower than Quicksilver. Seriously, every scrap of evidence that points to him losing is right there. I'm not sure how much more simplified it can be.

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#189  Edited By comicfan11

@nomar: LOL

You claim that Pietro has superhuman durability when he dies from bullets and I am the one not acknowledging feats??

Are you serious man???

Also Grodd is stated to be a super Gorilla. Pietro is stated to be super fast by Maria Hill.

That's it. No mention of enhanced durability or strength for Pietro.

Actually it was spelled out to you that Pietro has no special durability but you chose to ignore it.

Finally you claim that in a battle of speedsters, top speed doesn't matter.

And then you say that my liking for one character makes me biased and I ignore the showings????

Man this is called hypocrisy. Take a moment and just think before you post.

And I also stated that I much prefer AoU QS over CW Flash.

@nicksmi56: If I remember correctly he beat Everyman by punching eventually although it took some time. And as for Arrow if I remember correctly Arrow had help and barely survived their fight, no?

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Jimmy_Rustler

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Barry phases his heart out.

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Nomar

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#191  Edited By Nomar

I'm done. I've said my piece. Also after looking over this guys profile. It's clear as day he's just a DC fanboy who will give no inch to anything that doesn't tow the company line.

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Heaven_Sings7

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#192  Edited By Heaven_Sings7

@nicksmi56: The super speed punches he landed on Oliver should have taken him out, only reason it did not was cuz of WIS and bad writing, considering that one of those super speed punches tore open and almost flew a punching bag it even gut checked Eddy who was holding the bag and knocked the wind out of him, seriously Oliver should have taken fatal damage from those punches,but he did not cuz of the crossover, they tried to make it look good between Arrow and Flash

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deactivated-5967bf6197d40

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Barry phases his heart out.

In character Barry doesn't phase consistently. Just like the time travel feat, it was only done once under extreme circumstances

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deactivated-5967bf6197d40

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@nicksmi56: The super speed punches he landed on Oliver should have taken him out, only reason it did not was cuz of WIS and bad writing, considering that one of those super speed punches tore open and almost flew a punching bag it even gut checked Eddy who was holding the bag, seriously Oliver should have taken fatal damage from those punches,but he did not cuz of the crossover, they tried to make it look good between Arrow and Flash

Which still doesn't explain Everyman

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w0nd

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#195  Edited By w0nd

People just pick and choose what feats to keep and what to ignore, depending on the side they are on

as of now flash raced across the room stopped, picked someone up, and moved across the room before lightning hit. As soon as you stop, a person should be able to see you, you aren't moving. If a character stops moving and it's still in bullet time, that means Barry stopped picked someone up, and started running again in half a second.

He unloaded a train

He cleared out a train station entirely


Held off a tidal wave with a wall of speed.

and was shot in the back of the head, as soon as he felt the bullet touching him ever so slightly, he grabbed it. He grabbed a bullet before it killed him because of his reaction time alone.

He has the reaction time to pluck a bullet off his neck before it breaks the skin, but he can't avoid punches from characters with average speed? Something is off here. And because of contradictions like this, flash is a broken character and can't properly be used in these threads. People hate DBZ threads, but speedster threads are borderline just as bad.

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Nomar

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@heaven_sings7: You can't attribute it to that because once something becomes consistent. It is no longer WIS. His combat showings are consistently bad from start to finish(excluding his future version).

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Heaven_Sings7

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#197  Edited By Heaven_Sings7

@nicksmi56: That was a much weaker and slower Barry, still can be considered WIS

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comicfan11

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@nomar: Good to see that you are out of excuses and resort to personal attack when your character doesn't come on top.

I expected nothing less.

Also I took a look at your post history (like you did mine) when you run out of excuses, and o snap, guess who posts more on Marvel topics than on DC.

I guess that also makes you a Marvel fanboy, RIGHT?

Talk about hypocrisy at it's finest.

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Heaven_Sings7

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#199  Edited By Heaven_Sings7

@nomar said:

@heaven_sings7: You can't attribute it to that because once something becomes consistent. It is no longer WIS. His combat showings are consistently bad from start to finish(excluding his future version).

The writer can make it so the way he wants on many instances as he wants, if he does not know physics and science properly and continues to write it that way many times, its still WIS which is what many comic writers also do, and it is WIS cuz one of Barry's punches tore a punching bag almost flying it and knocked the wind out of Eddy, yet Oliver takes multiple without damage ? LOL

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deactivated-5967bf6197d40

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@nicksmi56: That was a much weaker and slower Barry, still can be considered WIS

When was it established that he was weaker and slower? He seemed fine to me