Q vs. Mxy vs. Living Tribunal

@bronze_surfer: True.

Though I think Swamp Thing becoming equal to the Presence is a lower showing for the Presence.

You can find the scans in this thread and uploaded them onto this thread if you want.

@jwwprod: I've seen them. Although Swamp Thing never got to get to his full potential so he never trully ascended

If void huh? Lol

New 52 presence is not only god but creator of all bronze.

Everyone is rebooted he says this himself btw

Because Thanos calling him "the almighty", who just so happens to be the only being above LT -- something which was stated in the same handbook entry you so proudly presented in your attempt to lowball the Living Tribunal -- doesn't prove that he's TOAA........??

It doesn't have to be spelled out. Do you think that when Fantastic Four met him he was also called "The One Above All"?

LOL at "power amp gimmick", same "power amp gimmick" which was above far above the IG.

By all means, go provide the evidence when LT struggled against Eternity or Strange (even though that was 50 years ago but meh....), i have yet to see anything even remotely resembling LT struggling against Strange, and the Eternity part seems like a fabrication on your part.

You do realize that this "mere motal" you keep referring to had Galactus' power at that point, yes?

Don't spread wrong information. If you haven't read the book, then don't comment on it.

Please try and actually reading the story, because LT was never fighting Strange. the Evil were threatening the "worlds beyond worlds", and the earth was filled with it, so LT decided to obliterate it, Strange begged the LT to give him time to save the earth, so LT tested him and found him worthy and gave him the appropriate time to save the earth.

LOL, are you seriously comparing the Quintessence and the Spectre with all the marvel cosmics which would include LT?

"shattering a universe with a thought" doesn't mean much when you have Dormammu with Eternity's power recreating infinite universes with a thought.

Eternity's power is equal to Oblivion, Death, and Infinity, and less than the LT. So you can see the ridiculous power gap between the cosmics that Thanos defeated and the ones that Joker did.

Really? then let's go ahead and break down every meeting.

We have Superman and Batman: Worlds funnest, in which Mxy and Bat mite overpowered the Spectre. Non canon, therefore irrelevant

We have Emperor Joker, where Joker (with Mxy's power) overpowers the Spectre. Canon.

We have an issue of Adventures of Superman (a follow up on Day of Vengeance) in which Mxy is depowered due to Spectre. Canon.

So if we "break down every meeting" we have a 1-1 draw. So try a different argument.

For a bonus, Spectre also got owned by another 5-D imp, in JLA crisis times five.

Are you serious? breaking the fourth wall is their thing, saying that they did no such thing means you know little about the characters, so again, try a different argument.

Right, it's not like the 2 brothers are literally the architects of 2 different megaverses, each megaverse encompasses more than 1 multiverse.

Yet LT is the one who fashioned them.

That's far and away from Mxy's pay grade.

@vaeternus: If the Presence was effected when Pandora rwerote the history of the DC timeline then that should also take away his omnipotence.

If someone can have effect on an omnipotent then that proves that the omnipotent isn't omnipotent.

@jwwprod: ok, but pretty sure presence hasn't been effected by anyone yet. You read phantom stranger i take it? I do, so far nothing is said about pandora having an effect on the presence. I agree if a lower being can effect an omnipotent deity then they're not so powerful, same can be said concerning lt.

rolldestroyer, so because thanos calls him the almighty means toaa made him? Scans of this otherwise it's just you speculating, it's now lowballing its just lack of evidence to back my point further. I was asking for solid evidence that says he's one with toaa. Almighty term isno different then "all powerful" as far as i'm concerned.

Yes exactly, marvel loves those gimmicks. Lets see here hotu, ig, gems etc shall i go on? oh and I love it when better yes mere mortals steal the powers of omnipotent beings. ;)

So because it happened 50 years ago(if that's even accurate) that's ok to dismiss that feat of lt getting defeated or struggling with classic strange? I'll post scans tomorrow if you so wish, im on my phone now so i can't.i already stated earlier i was referring to thanos giving eternity a rough time, if you read that I corrected myself.

Right, a mere mortal regardless is a mere mortal despite how smart he is,still stupid and bad writing to have mortal steal powers from abstracts and omnipotent deities but hey, "false" info right? lol Just admit it's pis and poor writing, even the marvel fanboys on here who love galactus, thanos etc admitted this in other topics. Why cant you?

I did read the story, can you please admit that lt didn't just "own strange" like you keep insisting? Why not then didnt lt just poof and kill him? whats the point of testing someone if youre intentions are to destroy earth or follow through with your plan anyone?

Yes, obviously you dont know how powerful spectre is if you're lowballing him. unbound spectre,spectre when he only became one with presence only universal buster..but feel free to ignore that. What i find funny is lt is more or less a spectre copy with "judgment of cosmic deeds" as oppose to spectres "judgement of sins,gods wrath etc" hmmm

yeah, and clearly you assume dorm and eternity are sooo above q and mxy? Right....actually it was canon, proof it's not canon? But if youre argument is not canon then neither is anything dc before new 52 outside of a few stories.

Ive already posted scans of their meetings, theres only two i didnt post one where spectre nailed mxy and another where mxy shattered spectre(again)

Yes, in dov you know spectre pretty much owned everyone with magic right?

no, im saying if youre saying dp and she hulk are more powerful then spectre, mxy or q youre dead wrong. 4th wall crap is irrelevant, i go by power and feats so take your own advice please.

What the hell are you talking about two brothers?and no, youre assuming each universe contains a megaverse or omniverse...proof of this? Perhaps multiverses, but dc & marvel have way more universes, ominverses,mega whatever you want to call them then anything else....no lt fashioned MARVEL's not others outside of marvels...and if you feel otherwise, find me proof that he created dcu, stu and every other fictional universe. oh wait...there is none.If you seriously think lt wins the last round, clearly you a. are a marvel or lt fanboy. B. dont know much about mxy and q's power...

@vaeternus said:

Could you please stop taking my statements out of context? because i clearly associated Thanos calling him "the almighty" with LT's bio which says that The One Above All is the only one superior to LT. And considering that you yourself posted an excerpt from that same handbook entry you shouldn't have a problem accepting that statement, no?

In any case, it was also far superior Eternity, Infinity along with everyone else below them, and even far above the IG itself, so it stands to reason it was non other than TOAA's own power.

Are you still ignoring the fact that Doom had Galactus' powers when he faced the Beyonder? Really??

Did i say it's ok to dismiss the feat? no i didn't. things were different back then, supernovas for instance were something spectacular back then, that's why they had LT make a star go nova and treat it as something special, and that was in the 1980s........never mind the shit that was in the 60s.

Ill be definitely waiting for your scans of LT "struggling" against Strange. Can't wait for those.

well "mere mortals" in comic books are quite different. Just look at Reed, his mind was needed by the alien entity to create the whole freakin' universe.That's also setting aside that Doom had Galactus' power in that instance, something which you conveniently ignored.

Maybe because, y'know, Dr Strange is an important character for the MU, and they can't have LT just poof him away, just like they can't LT "poof" away every villain in the marvel universe?

Instead, they had LT give Strange a chance to prove that the earth was worth saving, and gave him a limited amount of time to contain the evils that were threatening the universe.

That's how many stories involving omnipotent beings, work.

When did i ever lowball the spectre? just when? go ahead, tell me.

I was breaking every encounter the Spectre had with the imps, because according to you, Mxy came out as the winner in the majority of their encounters, when in fact, it was a 1-1 draw. So don't accuse me of the (non-existent) lowballing to cover up your ignorance.

Proof it was non canon? are you serious or are you just toying with me?

You do know that it was an elseworld, correct? What do you think that means?

All elseworlds are non canon, everyone knows that............except you, apparently.

Stop making irrelevant statements like that to cover your mistakes.

you said that Mxy won the majority of his encounters with the Spectre, when in fact it was a 1-1 draw.

That's what you have to reply to. You made a mistake, move on. No need to cover up your mistakes with more irrelevant wordiness.

Another irrelevant statement.

Tell me who exactly did Spectre "own" in DoV that even comes close to the one that Thanos did. Go ahead.

As i remember though, Captain Marvel, while in the possession of all the magic on earth, was doing quite fine against the Spectre, for dozens of pages.

Good. We agree on something.

Im referring to Adventures of the X-Men accompanied by Living Tribunal's bio, from the All-New OHOTMU.

Im not assuming that a universe contains a megaverse, because a megaverse contains multiple multiverse which in turn, contains multiple universes. So that would be stupid to assume wouldn't you think? Comprehend my post next time, please.

ill post the scans later if you need them.

@ rolldestroyer, since I'm growing tired of these novel like posts from both you and myself responding. This will be my last LONG post. If you disagree still after this or can't see my points I'm just going to agree to disagree since clearly we don't here. Deal?

I dont feel I'm taking anything out of context, I'm merely going on the facts I see. And I don't see any scan that provides what you say to be true(example almighty) Why doesn't Thanos refer to himself or LT refer to Thanos with HOTU as he is the one above all? "Almighty" is subjective.

I'm not ignoring that, point is he STILL shouldn't have beat Beyonder regardless....just think for a second here about the flawed logic and poor writing.

Beyonder>>>everyone else(except TOAA) right?

Beyonder>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Galactus

Beyonder>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dr. Doom

Galactus can't possibly defeat Beyonder, but a mere mortal who some how was able to "steal" his powers was then...

Able to steal Beyonder's powers?

So in essence, Galactus can't steal Beyonders powers or defeat him but Dr. Doom can and he's but a mortal human? Right....

Then dr. steal everyone's powers loses to Squirrel Girl........

............

See anything wrong here when Beyonder should blink and both die if he wanted?

So let me get this straight, you're telling me that Doom "had Galactus's powers!!" yet this guy apparently can reshape the universe, so yeah.....makes no sense. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong in the technical, canon sense. I'm saying the writing of this makes no sense via the power levels of these characters...I see why they retconned it now.

Ok, well you had an issue with the Strange/LT scans I posted earlier so I figured you wanted to dismiss them. Sure they happened in the 60's, 70's whatever...my point is just showing that LT isn't as "powerful" as some may think if a mortal is outsmarting him....all I'm saying. But then I noticed this seems to be a pattern for Marvel a la Dr. Doom's ridiculous PIS feats, but yet struggles against the FF and squirrel girl. But I'll save the rant of preferences for another day....as well as when Joker has 99% of Mxy's power he owned Spectre and posed as him for fun...I'm not the ignorant one if you think Spectre has beaten Mxy or his power more times then Mxy has beaten Spectre....numerous times Mxy shattered Spectre literally like a mirror, I suggest you do more research unless you'd rather I post the scans. Also, please stop using the other imps as examples of defeat being as how Mxy is FAR more powerful then the other imps....but since you're so hellbent on going on about "other imps have beaten Spectre" ok, here's Bat-Mite owning Spectre. Spectre losing to imps/and or Mxy on 4 different occassions...The only time we really see Mxy struggle was when Spectre draining magic all over Mxy was weaker but recovered shortly after the blast to his chest. Otherwise, Mxys power>>>>Spectre more times then not.

Joker with 99% of mxy's power imprisoning Spectre in a birdcage...

Sorry but THIS proves you wrong, math 1-1 doesn't equal to THAT which is clearly more like 5-1 5th Dimensional power>>>>Spectre's. So not a mistake, just you being wrong apparently to what Mxy, Batmite and even Joker have done to Spectre...

Also, it's not ignorance there have been theories and hints that lead people to believe Mxy's past wasn't retconned as the mainstream DCU has an arch in "hypertime" then in another arch Mxy refers to it thus having knowledge of it which implies it's all apart of the same DCU. While Elseworlds aren't canon obviously, there have been similarities of the universes. Besides, Doesn't matter if it was Elseworld's or not in this case given the rules, but apparently you didn't read the O.P. as clearly states WF Mxy in the last round...where canon/vs none canon is irrelevant.

I didn't ignore anything, point is consistency. Sure, be it Batman, Doom, Reed, Lex whoever...humans no doubt have to "make up" for lacking uber powers some how. What better way then knowledge? Yes. But my issue isn't how smart they are, it's inconsistencies which you apparently ignored in my point.

Who did Spectre beat, not only everyone in DOV and yes while captain did give him SOMEWHAT of a fight, how did that end btw? Oh yes with Spectre killing Shazam...funny how you leave that part out and who did he defeat on par with Thanos? Hmm, aside from Shazam's power? Oh IDK Phantom Stranger? Dr. Fate/Nabu's power...really?

I read your post, please don't lecture me concerning comprehension when you're clearly ignoring the fact or didn't read the OP that states the WF Mxy being in 2 of 3 rounds..... Yes, his newer updated bio that's lovely but still doesn't alter the fact that Marvel's LT is still limited to their own Universe/Multiverse etc. Example, while yes it wasn't canon before you rant on that it was shown that Marvel powerhouses power were more limited during the crossovers.

Yup. And believe me, i will reply to your posts however long they are; im not going to let this misinformation slip away.

Though im seeing your points very well, some of them just aren't reasonable, in my opinion.

You're still missing the point.

You provided a handbook excerpt of a Living Tribunal bio from All-New Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe #6.

This same handbook --- which says that Thanos over-powered the Living Tribunal --- says that The One Above All is the only one who's superior to LT.

So take the term of "the almighty" along with the LT's handbook entry, and you'll realize the truth.

But if that's not enough, you're welcome to tell us all where this mysterior Heart of the Infinity came from.

Was it Scathan? No, he's not "God/The Almighty". Starlin actually said that Thanos possessed the power of "God" while wielding HOTI.........wonder who might that be, something tells me it's Living Tribunal's master --- TOAA.

Was it Protege? Impossible as well.

Those are the only ones who were actually superior to LT, so that leaves us with one choice; it was the power of TOAA himself.

The fact that Starlin said that Thanos possessed the power of "God", along with the fact that TOAA is LT's only superior, and Thanos calling him "almighty" on panel, tells us it's TOAA.

Get it now?

Now what you're doing is red herring. The discussion at hand is whether it was Doom or an amped Doom who stole the Beyonder's powers, in which case.........it was a massively amped Doom. He had Galactus' powers in that instance.

Doom + Galactus' powers =/= regular Doom. His knowledge/senses were heightened to a point where he became virtually omnisceint, he even said so on panel, so Doom going up against the Beyonder with Galactus' nigh omnipotence/nigh omniscience is far above your normal average Doom who "lost to squirrel girl", let's not pretend otherwise, K?

You said that Doom stealing Galactus' power and him stealing Beyonder's power were from 2 different arcs, when in fact, it was in the same book. So clearly, you thought that Doom didn't have Galactus' power in that instance, and treated as such (as if that was normal Doom). Then deviated from the main point and started babbling about the inconsistency of Doom (even with G's power) "beating" the Beyonder. Heck, in that same series --- Secret Wars I --- Galactus attempted to go inside the portal and unto the Beyond-realm, and it was literally stated that he was blasted away like a "bug", so there's gotta be something wrong with that instance, no?

But see, thing is, Beyonder is stupid, nobody is arguing otherwise, he got owned by thugs, as well as normal humans in Secret Wars II. That would be like saying, Mxy's power beat the Spectre, destroyed and recreated the universe with a thought, was causing chaos across the dimensions, yet, any mortal man who makes him say his name backwards, "beats" Mxy. Both of them are stupid, it doesn't take away their power-level. Mxy supporters should know that better than anyone.

Except that it wasn't ret-conned, it is still canon to this very day. It's referenced in the handbooks and in plenty of canon issues, most recent that i recall off the top of my head would be Fall of the Hulks: Alpha #1.

And Dr. Doom didn't exactly over-power the Beyonder neither, because he was clearly laying on the ground helpless; Beyonder even went so far to spare him and lifted him in the air, only then did Doom --- with Galactus' power and even Galactus' own technology --- steal the Beyonder's power.

I even recall in later issues (retellings of the particular event) saying that death was different in the Beyond-realm, which would explain how Doom was spared. And Beyonder was actually literally everything in the Beyond-realm.

Actually, i myself think that back in those days (and only when he was introduced) Living Tribunal was meant to be weaker, not unlike now at-least. Which has no bearing whatsoever over the Thanos instance which happened in 2003, where LT was established to be the 2nd most powerful being in Marvel. That's also setting aside the part where your flat-out wrong about the Strange/LT encounter.There were evils threatening the worlds beyond worlds, which is why LT intervened. He wanted to destroy the earth to contain those evils, but Strange didn't want that, so he proved himself --- and in turn, the Earth --- worthy, which led to LT giving him time to save it. When Strange gathered those evils in Nebulos' staff (which would be later used against the Living Tribunal) LT was forced to spare the Earth.That's the whole story. Dr Strange never even remotely threatened LT nor even could he be capable of such a thing. Im not going to repeat myself.

Doom's prep feats are actually impressive, he usurped cosmic beings on multiple occasions (a Watcher, Galactus twice, Beyonder, and so on), it's just who he is. There's a reason why Reed --- who himself has ridiculous feats, even with cosmic beings, yes --- is his arch-enemy. That's not to say that he's sometimes overrated here on the vine, but that's for another topic, which i don't want to get into.

And you do realize, that the scans you so proudly posted are from the one and the same book --- Superman and Batman: Worlds' Funnest, which is an elseworld, and as such is non canon. Must I repeat myself time and time again?

Am i really the one who should do "research" better? No, no i don't. You're the one who must rely less on the internet images posting random scans. Though i get it, the art looks different between Mxy's/Batmite's 1st encounter with the Spectre and their 2nd, which was deliberate to set a special setting for the issue.......but unfortunately for you, it doesn't change the fact that it's from the same book.

Please stop using other imps? Why is that exactly? That's just to point out that Mxy isn't the only imp who's capable of such a thing. Not to mention that the Spectre's host was Jim Corrigan when Lkz (i think it was) owned him, while in the Emperor Joker instance it was Hal Jordan. The former is has better feats than the latter. Just some food for thought.

The only canon instance where Mxy (and it wasn't even Mxy himself but rather the Joker) is shown to be superior to the Spectre is the Emperor Joker arc, all the rest (including Bat Mite) are from an elseworld issue.

Yeah, i guess; using different encounters from the same non canon book, time and time again, proves me wrong.

Job well done.

Not sure how posting some random scans from The Spectre #51, 3rd series, helps your point here. Because if anything, that issue wasn't one of Spectre's shining moments, y'know, getting possessed by the Joker who --- despite possessing the Spectre's powers --- failed to kill Batman, but whatever, really. Because all you seem to be doing here is posting out of context scans as a means to fill your post with more words.

That's quite a leap of logic you got there. Firstly, Hypertime concept was abandoned. Second point is, Mxy refrencing Hypertime doesn't prove Jack. There is a reason why DC officially has its elseworld stories as non canon. Every issue which has an elseworld logo on it is non canon period. Even if we're going by your logic, you still realize that it happened on an alternate reality right? And every reality has an alternate version of Mxy, so it wouldn't apply to mainstream Mxy at all. Either way, it doesn't help your case much, here. Having similarities of universe doesn't mean anything at all, i mean, what do you really expect from an elseworld tale? some unfamiliar character who nobody cares for? Yeah, i guess, that kind of book would have very high sales.

Really, so i didn't read the OP? Then let me ask you a question: Why did you bring the feats from the Emperor Joker arc, then? you said it yourself, we're only using the WF version of Mxy, so apparently you didn't read the rules properly either.

Yes, you did ignore the part where Doom had Galactus' powers and technology. That is evident by the fact that you thought those were in separate arcs. Don't fill your post with wordiness to cover up that mistake. It's fine, everybody does mistakes, just move on. Besides, this is an internet forum.

Really, define this "everyone" of yours, go ahead and name me one being, who Spectre beat in DoV, who even remotely comes close to Eternity, nevermind the other abstracts and the Living Tribunal himself whom Thanos stomped.

Oh yes, Shazam is so powerful to the point that, maybe --- just maybe --- he's an ant compared to Eternity or any other abstract consisting of the 4 cornerstones (forget the LT). Not anymore than that. That's also setting aside the part where Shazam was weakened by Mordru in the JSA tie-ins to The Day of Vengeance. Or the part where Shazam actually over-powered the Spectre at one point but he regenerated later and absorbed Shazam's magic, which ended him.

Phantom Stranger? He doesn't compare to any of the abstracts, even you should know that. Apart from that, Spectre couldn't even kill him, which is why he transformed him, but meh.

Nabu actually wanted to die for your information (though he also admitted that Spectre is more powerful than him) but then again, that doesn't mean anything because we both know Nabu is an insect compared to the 4 abstracts. Now im not saying that Spectre isn't more powerful than 1 of the 4 abstracts in marvel, i just want you to name 1 --- just one --- cosmic being that even remotely comes close to those that Thanos defeated. Funny part where you actually didn't comprehend what i was talking about. I clearly said that i want you to name cosmic beings which the Spectre defeated in DoV who are equal slightly inferior to those Thanos defeated in Marvel Universe: The End (as in, while Thanos was in the possession of The Heart of Infinity), because apparently --- and according to your flawless logic --- the Heart of Infinity was just some.......random amp

I myself read DoV well and fine, and i didn't come across anyone who comes close to Eternity/Infinity even. Me asking you to name those cosmic beings is a rhetorical question not a serious one, yet you decided to answer............though you didn't even understand what i meant in the first place.

And here we go again.........you, you read the OP, yet you're proudly referencing all sorts of stories for Mxy.

Where did you get that LT is limited to a universe? i have a scan that says LT operates in all multiverses, yes, absolutely all realities in marvel, and he does so simultaneously. So go and do your "research" (which isn't really helping you as much as it's making you look clueless) again.

Yeah, I'm going to agree to disagree and go by the OP's rules.

1. I guess I'll just disagree with you then, I feel I'm making solid cases concerning LT's or some of his battles rather. To me they're not unreasonable.

2. Yes, I get it...doesn't make much sense to me but whatever lol. I'm trying to figure out why TOAA would randomly give this HOTU to Thanos or to anyone for that matter. Perhaps for TOAA's amusement. But it is what it is.

3.Yes, I get that now I was confusing that arch with the one where he stole SS's powers(since his powers come from power cosmic a la Galactus's power) I just never figured out to me it doesn't make sense how if Galactus tried overthrowing Beyonder, he'd fail. Yet Doom outsmarts Galactus(ok, fine we've seen this before with the SA Strange vs. LT issue) but what throws me off is if he steals the same power from Galactus, some how Dr. Doom magically is able to steal Beyonders just because he's amped? Yet that overall power is still below Beyonder's ultimately? This is my issue here.

Think of it like this so that you can better understand where I'm coming from why I have an issue with this plot.

A Guardian gives the same exact ring of power to John Stewart let's say, he tries to defeat parallax by himself but fails badly. Batman then steals John's ring, and defeats Parallax...if Parallax's power is obviously greater then a standard GL ring having John failed, and Batman win doesn't make sense. It's inconsistent, PIS and overall comes off a plot device to "defeat the bad guy". I know cases like this happen/happened over time in comics, I assure you whenever it happens in DC I have just as many issues with it. Just seems like a trend for Marvel though with "Dr. Doom" especially stealing abstracts, ominipotent deities etc powers....for a human(no matter how smart he is) just seems ridiculous to me that's all.

4. Ah but you see there's a key difference here is Mxy isn't stupid(the Mxy name backwards rule just so you know is a rule he allows) I can post a scan if you'd like. Beyonder however I agree with you is STUPID or extremely gullible, despite all that omnipotent power (imo he unless he's literally retarded) there's no excuse for him to lose to someone like Doom. If he banished him or killed him, Doom is history but it's like you told me earlier "big character name in Marvel" in this case so they're not killing him like Mxy won't Superman, but at least Mxy most of the time purposely toys with Superman. He has no intentions to kill him. The other difference is Mxy is more goofy and silly, rather then "stupid". Sure there are archs he's been fooled but not as much as Beyonder....I mean Mxy never had his powers stolen from hiim, he's allowed others like Joker to have them. He admits this shortly after. That and typically speaking Mxy's powers just exceed that of Spectres(especially since Spectre is very inconsistent with power levels)

5. I'm not saying I disagree with you there, but every other Marvel fan or Beyonder fanatic has told me on here several times that entire plot was retconned hence the name "Pre-retconned Beyonder" Sounds to me like the Marvel fans or I should say Beyonder fanbase on here isn't even sure, which isn't convincing for a Beyonder argument I must say. lol I mean every beyonder topic I'm in or just read even, I notice people disputing over "what's canon and what's not" thinking maybe I should ask this in off topic to get a straight answer but more times then not i've read that that was retconned....and the current, canon version of beyonder is the cube version not the 70's disco stupid version.

6. Ok so we agree that Dr. Doom can be overrated at times on here(that can be said for a ton of characters) but as you said, that's another topic. And that LT apparently was weaker back then while SA Strange was more powerful, now seems to be switched. LT is more powerful while Strange is standard sorcerer in Marvel.

7. I had a feeling you were going to say that, but if you're going to use the non-canon card then I'll use the same one on Per retc beyonder....besides, yes you told me I'll ask you again respectfully did you read the OP? Pretty sure the OP stated World's Funniest therefore canon/none-canon is really irrelevant here. You asked about meetings between Spectre and Mxy/his power, I provided with various scans. Regardless of the same issue which some were, others weren't. Why stop using imps you ask? Simple, because other imps aren't in this battle simply put. It's Mxy and Mxy alone, only reason why I posted the bat-mite scans is because you said Spectre beat other imps, which is true however he's also been defeated by them that's my point. Mxy included. So again, canon vs. non canon card is irrelevant here. I'm going by the OP's rules, I suggest you do too please. It's why mods prefer users to be specific with which versions a character they use(which clearly the OP has so)

8. It's not random, it's to back my point. And later on it was revealed that Mxy prevented it(Joker from killing Batman) or I can just use your card. "Not canon so why's it matter" right? ;) see, I can do that too.

9. Regardless if canon or not, you deny that hypertime was used in both canon/none-canon DC stories?

10. With all due respect I don't think you read the OP if you're still questioning WHY I'm posting World's Funniest feats....even though the OP clearly says "Worlds Funniest for the first and third fights"

11. I didn't ignore that, I merely got the archs confused initially. Confusion is not ignoring. I already made my other point concerning my beef with that concept anyway.

12. lol you said earlier "compared to what thanos did" or were you referring to Thanos with a power gimmick? Helps to be specific. Either way, my point is he beat every other powerful magic user in that arch(except for those more powerful then him obviously) that's why I had said it sounded like you're trying to lowball some of his feats or something...I really don't recall nor can find myself quoted saying "Phantom Stranger, Nabu, Cap Marvel etc are more powerful then Eternity and LT though" If you're talking normal Thanos, obviously Thanos with HOTU since that's apparently "TOAA power" then nobody from DC would be able to contend with except for Presence/God obviously. But my point was Spectre has tons of feats, archs that are inconsistent. Ask any Spectre fan...@sithlantern93 already posted this(if not this topic another recently) and I happen to agree with him. Example, there's Nekron beating Spectre nonsense and then there's Spectre stalemating AM....see my point with that inconsistency?

13. Phantom Stranger for one could easily be on par with one of those four from Marvel, like you said he's always given Spectre a hard time arguably his equal in some ways...namely new 52 where and spectre clashed, stalemated more or less and were destroying the multiverse in DCU til Presence/God showed up to tell them cut it out or else...hell some versions of the new 52 are even more powerful then they were previously. I know Nabu and Cap A aren't near say Eternity, LT but they are pretty powerful in their own right. Cap A absorbing all the magic on earth to take on Spectre and Nabu using all his power just to take Spectre is a testament to Spectre's power. I mean look at the Strange vs. LT feats....SA versions of Fate/Nabu and Strange were easily way more powerful then they are currently past 15 years or so. I comprehended what you said full well. My point is while Thanos with HOTU is powerful, by your definition of him being one with God/almighty/TOAA whatever, he should blink and kill of them the others..it shouldn't even be a contest.

14. I'm not clueless, I'm just not being purposely ignorant like you are or cherry picking what I want to read/read like you are. Again, READ the OP...it clearly says World's Funniest Mxy lol for one. Two, again DC has mutiverses too. It doesn't mean their characters can own Marvels "Multi-verse anymore or less then LT can own DCU's" it's merely limited to their own universe with those bios in mind.

Just like you did when you posted those Emperor Joker scans, and accused me of not reading the rules.

@rolldestroyer: There's so many things I can point out off with that but I'm not even going to, not worth it at this point. I've already posted the feats for Mxy backing my claims concerning his power sets in WF as the OP mentioned.

@xaa curious, do you have any issues with my scans/posts?

I already read WF and am well aware of his feats there, and i wasn't even disputing them. Our discussion was about another topic, which you tried to deviate from. And it's just an excuse.

You accuse me of not reading the OP because i was mentioning non-WF stories for Mxy yet you did the exact same thing. When i caught you in your mistake you cover it up by saying it's off-topic, when you're the one who started the topic in the first place, you were the one who started referencing Mxy's other feats, you're the one who posted those first scans from The Spectre Vol. 3 #51, followed by 2 scans from Adventures of Superman #583, followed by a scan from Superman: Emperor Joker, followed by another 2 from Countdown to Final Crisis #23.

After all this, you accuse me of going too off-topic and insist on sticking onto WF only?

Seems legit.

@vaeternus: Hi!! Not at all. Appreciate you good reading my first post. I have no issue with yoo post. Good post!!! I allow all Mxy feat with World Funniest and the normal Mxy for second battle!! You post good arGument!!!

@rolldestroyer: Well it appears I got my answer so ;) I shall keep my stance. I never went off topic as the OP just confirmed it. Good day to you sir. You have your opinion, I have mine.

Thank you, that's what I thought ;)

This.

@vaeternus said:

Id bet the OP didn't even read my argument. Though if he did, by all means, let him comment how exactly i went off-topic, in fact let's just ask him now:

===============================================================================

@xaa: So did i go off-topic while vaeternus didn't? if so, id like you to kindly point out which part exactly.

===============================================================================

Funny you should say that though, since the OP just said right in front of you that the 2nd battle had normal Mxy, so you were wrong all along, no?

Anyway, let me know in case you have a reply to my argument, otherwise, just don't reply.

But anyway, anyone who would look at your post, of course he'll say that you have a good argument with good scans; but when you get into the details and the context of said scans, you get a different picture, entirely.

No, what I'm trying to say is that by the end of Lucifer he is no longer god and went into the void with Lucifer. If he is now God again than that means he can't be Omnipotent since something affected him. But again have we actually seen the Prescence as a person or only a voice? Because if its the ladder than it could still be Elaine all powerful and not the original prescence. Regardless there are things to support that he is not Omni but that is another argument. I think we will have to agree to disagree on Prescence = TOAA

@rolldestroyer: Right...

Sounds to me like you're rather beefed at the fact that the OP agreed I had a solid point? You seem a tad defensive I don't recall him accusing either of us going off topic. It was you who assumed I was when I was merely elaborating on WF mxy. Right...right, so anyone would "instantly agree with me" by popping in here because they see scans? Even though they're relevant scans of WF Mxy being used in 2 of 3 rounds? Yes? I see.

I simply provided scans based off the rules of the topic. I don't know what you're arguing at this point. Did you even bother to read my thoughts on each round? Clearly not since you're assuming I ignored the second having normal Mxy...yes I'm aware of this.

So to make it simplier for you, I will quote how I feel yet again ;)

Any questions? Because I'm pretty sure this is cut and dry, and in English.

Oh you're talking about Vertigo DC/pre 52 though, I'm referring to of late versions. The New 52 rebooted everything (in case you dont know with the DCU) and Presense has showed up a few times at least. I take it you're not following the New 52 much? It's fine if you haven't but he has showed up first as a voice, then as a little dog/voice then as the dog again but referred to as God and the Presence by others including Angels etc. He also said he created everything and is the highest being. There is none of that GEB equal nonsense in New 52 and hopefully it stays that way.

Pre new 52 I think you have solid points, currently though as far as I'm concerned Presence and TOAA are totally equal. But as you said, we can just agree to disagree on that. I just wanted to clear up that Presence has showed up a few times in Phantom Stranger. He pretty much brought back PS back from death, even after he disobeyed him....

But the question remains. Has it shown up as an old british dude or as just other things? IIRC no one but Micheal, Lucifer and the original Prescence knew that she was the new god. All i'm saying is that has their been any evidence to show that it is the Orignial Prescene AKA Old British Dude or the New Prescence AKA Ellaine his Grandaughter. Because if it is back to the old prescence that means he was affected by the merging of just 3 universes. All you said him creating all in DC was true for the original but creating all does not make you Omni just the creator.

Fact is, you don't really have a solid point, you just randomly jump from one point to another. For example, we're arguing whether WF is canon or not, you go on and actually make an argument for it to be canon, and when you're proven wrong, you deviate from the point and say "Well, the OP is using this version, so we must accept it", that's red herring. Same thing with Doom/Beyonder. You go ahead and say that normal Doom (you clearly had no idea he had G's powers) beat the Beyonder, and when i correct you that he achieved that with G's powers; again, diverge from the main point and make an argument that Doom with G's powers beating the Beyonder is inconsistent.

If that's your/OP's definition of a "solid point" then yes, you've done a great job so far.

And i really like how you "shall keep your stance" when the OP said that your post is cool. I mean, sure, the OP said that he didn't have problem with your posts, but i just posted a whole argument which you failed to reply to. So naturally, you're going to "keep your stance".

@bronze_surfer: He hasn't showed up as any kind of human form at least not yet. Just a dog so far(as odd as that may sound) he is God afterall, can show up as anything he wants. Personally, I think it's kind of cool and a good example of who he is and how powerful he is. The few times he's showed though, he's been pretty impressive. He allowed a dead kid to be brought back from heaven to live, stopped the fight causing a rift in the DCU between Spectre and Phanton Stranger, brought back Phantom Stranger from the pits of hell to heaven instantly. Also later brought him back after he was erased from existence literally but God/Presence/Voice decided to bring him back. There has been nothing mentioned concerning Presence having any kind of relatives, just that he's the almighty lord, God and the Presence by Phantom Stranger, Spectre and the Angels. More specifically Gabrielle. It really seems like this version of Presence is based off Christian God honestly as oppose to before. He is omnipotent, he seems a lot more powerful then before. Trust me, I've read every issue of Phantom Stranger up to date. Nobody else in the DCU seems remotely close to him lol.

@rolldestroyer: No I have one, you just won't accept it and seem to be pissed now...

There is nothing random about me providing evidence which is more then you've done in this topic concerning the actual characters. You're the one who brought up "this isn't canon blah, blah, blah" not me. I was merely saying well the OP rules state "worlds funniest Mxy" it's clear as day is it not? You're trying to ignore or ban the OP's rule when it says WF Mxy except for the second round. That is irrelevant, shows everyone you don't approve or like the rules. Sorry that's why CV has rules about battle topics. I don't know what you're on about, thought we already been through all that stuff?

Sorry you "don't approve" but I'm not asking you to nor care at this point. I prefer to post my thoughts not just based on feats, powers etc but on the OP's rules in every battle topic. Yes, I prefer to keep my stance because that's how I feel maybe? Why can't you just post an answer to the actual topic instead of insisting someone else is wrong or what not? It makes you look very argumentative and having some kind of superiority complex.

That old British dude was only a from which the Presence took in Vertigo's Lucifer. We have seen even pre-DCnU the Presence take different forms, it's not uncommon. Just because he appears in the form of a dog, doesn't mean he's rebooted, even in that scene where he revealed himself as the Presence he clearly said that he can choose whatever form he likes, so his appearance has no bearing on whether he was rebooted or not.

Elaine's few friends knew that she became the new God, along with Mazikeen i believe (apart from Lucifer and Michael). And Elaine becoming "God" was pretty much ignored in mainstream DC; it was only limited to the Lucifer series.

@vaeternus: Both versions are based of the Jedeuo-Christian God. The only difrance is that the other one did more stuff. Infact the stuff you showed does not really put him at an omni level. Sure he is looked up to by everyone but as I said before no one knew that the old and new prescence switched places. So all i'm saying is that it could still be Ellane. But to just sum up my entire question is it their a brand new version of the prescence or is it stil ellane?

My answer would be Ellane. All Flashpoint did was Merge New Earth, Wild Storm and Vertigo Universe. Logicaly that would have no baring on Heaven itselff. DC is still in it's limited version except now their is 50 Universes instead of 52. I don't see any evidence to say that it is a new god when what you are describing to me is the same as the old one. As for no one else being close to him/her/it is the same as how Prescence was at the end of vertigo and with Ellane. The only ones close to Prescence are,

GEB who merged with him

God Swamp Thing by claimes

Primal Monitor by position

and Ellane by being equal Power

So in the end I don't see any reason to belive this is a new version of god when so far no evidence really shows it

Alright but if the original God can change his form into whatever would it not make sense to think Elaine can not? Sure her freinds and Mazikeen knows but their not really people that you know about. In essence I feel that Elaine is still god but feel free to disagree

@rolldestroyer: Bro why post to fighting???! I say Vaeternus post good post. You going off the topics I don't see why to fight.Be nice please.I don't think before you go off of the topic but now you seem to go off the topic.CAn answer topic with not fighting please?????

The first a battle world funny mxy.The second battle the normal mxyltp.The last battles is world funniess Mxylt.Here is rules from my post

This is Q from Star Trek

Living Tribunal from Marvel

Mxy from DC Universe

Rules: 3 Different Fights!!!

Battle 1-

-Free for all!!

-All at full power!!!

-Mxy is Worlds Funniest here!!!

-Win by Death!!

_______________________________________________________

Battle 2-

-Free For all but normal Mxy[not Worlds Funniest here]

-Q and Living Tribunal normal

-Win by Death or BRF!!

_______________________________________________________

Battle 3-

-Living Tribunal thinks DC Universe and Star Treky Universe is threat and wants to kill Mxy and Q!!!

-Q and Mxy get along well, find each other funny so they team up full power to combine form Mxy-Q!!!

-Who wins fight to Death or BRF!!!!?

Oh you think just because you posted some out of context scans that makes your argument somehow "stronger"??

Yeah, see that's the problem many posters have here, when they see scans they just go "wow", but in fact, many of your scans are out of context. the innocent onlookers don't know that since they haven't read those books. If you notice, i even referenced the issues where your scans come from, meaning i am aware of them.

If you want, i could literally provide scans for every single word i said.

Just let me know. Right now.

The rest of your post is just ranting.

@rolldestroyer: Sounds like you're ranting, and have yet to do so. I already asked you for proof of LT literally effecting "other universes outside of Marvel" can't because it's never been done. You sound like you're posting at this point for the sake of arguing. In which I have nothing more to say really if that's your objective.

@bronze_surfer: Just so we're clear, I never said anything about "Presence being able to take forms of dogs" as a reason why he's all powerful in DCU N52. Clearly someone is taking what I say the wrong way...but this version isn't related to anything in Vertigo series what I'm saying or the pre new 52. He's the all powerful God/creator of all and omnipotent until DCU N52 says otherwise. I've read every issue with him in it thus far.

@xaa: Thank you. But I wouldn't hold my breath on the guy actually answering the question.

He seems stern on arguing with me specifically though.

I wasn't fighting, i treat baseless accusations accordingly.

@bronze_surfer said:

To be honest, the events happening in Lucifer didn't have any consequences on mainstream DC at all, that i recall of.

At the same time when Elain became "God", Day of Vengeance was taking place, and we've seen the actual Presence intervene (instead of Elaine) to find the Spectre a host. That pretty much tells us that the Presence didn't leave creation nor did Elaine replace him as God. Because like i said: Elaine becoming God was limited only to the Lucifer series.

Also, Flashpoint didn't just merge 3 universes, it merged all the 52 universes including Vertigo and Wildstorm. Now, DCnU has infinite parallel realities, hence why it referenced the omniverse now on several occasions.

@rolldestroyer: Damn...DOV was that long ago? Wow. I need to catch up on New 52

"Outside of Marvel"?? honestly speaking, who would argue that LT could affect anything other than Marvel??

My bad, perhaps when i said that LT exists simultaneously in all multiverses, you thought that those other multiverses (plural) meant i was referring to other companies? when in fact i didn't, because that's exactly how it was stated:

That's a prime example of you accusing me of something i didn't say because you didn't comprehend what i was saying. Thank you for proving my point.

Yeah, it was in 2005. Near its ending in Day of Vengeance: Infinite Crisis Special was in 2006 (which was when the Presence intervened), roughly the same time when Lucifer was concluding.

No fighting!!!

@ rolly, I've comprehended what you said perfectly. Perhaps next time you should be more specific as why are you even arguing my post in the first place if you didn't mean LT having control over other universes/companies? Speaking of comprehension, are you even going to answer the original O.P.? Just curious ;)

Cause all I've seen you do is argue with everything I've posted so far honestly as oppose to actually answering the topic. Cause you know that's what you're supposed to do.

1. Mxy

2. Stalemate or Mxy

3. Team in a Stomp

Mxy

LT

Team

@rijehu: Meh. agree with all cept for round 2. Normal Mxy has not shown that great of feats TBH

@bronze_surfer:

Oh NORMAL Mxy? In that case,

1. Mxy

2. Tribunal or Stalemate

3. Team still stomps

Sorry... but...

Didnt Mxy (normal) was one shoted by Gog (a character leagues bellow LT)?

Didnt Q was always overcomed by the Enterprise crew?

However if WF mxy is used then i agreed that he WINS... however normal gets stomped.

@vaeternus:

Are you triying to say that the fith dimension and the Q continuum are the most powerfull things in fiction?.

Because you are doing this. Now for the record Mxy have been stoped by Gog and Spectre (no host) in canon comics.

Q?... they are low multiversals and nothing more...

Off topic: Is there a character capable of defeating Q and Mxy at the same time?

To answer your question. No, not saying that. However, in STU Q IS the most powerful thing easily. And he's only really made little "tests" for the ST crew, they usually pass if he wanted to he could destroy them but then the Q continum would question him, in other episodes he's also helped the crew at times.

At any rate, all three are among some of the more powerful beings in fiction but obviously NOT the most. Though Q here is more or less the God of STU as far as I'm concerned, they're omnipotent.

One round I noticed is normal mxy, and another WF Mxy if you read the first post originally ;)

Your OT question, I think Q is up there and WF mxy but also Presence, TOAA, Eru, Elder Gods from MK, The Matrix etc I'd also consider up there. Pretty much every fictional universe has a "God" or something that represents as ruler of the entire universe.

Welcome to CV btw albert kid.

@vaeternus:

Thanks...

@clownprinceofcrime1995

Have to admit ignorance to Q since I hate Star Trek but since normal mxy is actually the same as WF mxy he stomps all three against LT

LT stomps both