Do you have a computer? No? Then you can't debate >_>
Make 4 Picks of Anything
Choose a Team Name
Stacking Perks Is Allowed
Combos Must Be Used Together
In Character(Everyone has to act like they normally fight)
EU Feats are allowed
Everyone is willing to kill, but good guys are not willing to hurt innocent people.
Team Work Counts A Lot , Old Relationships & Rivalries Count A Lot
Teammates Will Not Attack Each Other (Unless Specified) But Won't Necessarily Follow Orders or Get Along
Old rivalries count.
No BFR & Can Only Teleport Yourself & Your Personal Gear
No Telefrag
No Time Travel
No Mind or Soul Rape or Controlling Others Actions -All Other Soul/Mind Attacks Count
NO Reality Warping-Breaking The 4th Wall & All PIS or Plot Powers Are Off
NO GOD MODE SHENANIGANS
Standard Gear, But Nothing Above OP Like Nuke Arrows
Lightsabers Will Not Cut Through Magic Items Or Adamatium
Any Luck Powers Will Be At Low-Mid Levels
Any Toon Force Is At Very Low Levels
Speeds Will Be Kept At Mach 5 or Below
Win By Death/KO/or Mission Completion
Single Elimination
If I Feel That Voters Are Simply Voting For Their Friends-I Reserve The Right To Overrule A Bogus Vote
If only one person or no one votes, I will decided the winner.
I Will Ref The Matches.
Jokes/Sarcasm/One Liners/Puns Are All Acceptable.
If You Feel Someone Is Low Balling Or High Balling A Character-Then Call Them Out.
Any Personal Insults Will Result In An Automatic Loss Of A Match.
All Marvel Characters Are At Their Standard Levels Unless Specified Otherwise.
All DC Characters Are New 52/Pre 52 Feats With Pre 52 Morals & Mind Set.
Characters Will Start Off With No Knowledge Of Opponents They Have Not Encountered Before.
Web Fluid Users get 6 Packs of Web Of Their Choosing
Gun Users May Have Up To 4 Guns, Each Gun Has 50 Shots Each(Unless Specified)
Arrow Users Get 80 Arrows
No Vehicles Unless It Is Standard Equipment. Example: Green Goblin Gets His Glider, But Batman Does Not Get The Batmobile.
No Summoning Help Unless They Are Normal Tools. Examples: Naruto Characters Cannot Summon Animals, but they can summon weapons. Poison Ivy Can Use Her Plants; 3 is The Limit for this sort of thing.
Batfamily Utility Belt Users Get 80 Pieces Of Gear(Unless Specified)
ALL FINAL RULE JUDGEMENTS WILL BE MADE BY ME
Mission: Jewel Heist. Guards vs Thieves.
A Luxury Cruiser is coming in to dock & pick up passengers. On board are The Guards, 2,000 passengers & crew members, and 100 Billion Dollars of Asgardian Magic Diamonds & Treasure.
Exhibit 1: Size Of A Small TV
Exhibit 2: Size Of A Large TV
Map & Mission Details: Halo 3 Ragnarok
The Size Of The Map Is 40 miles x 40 Miles. The total length of the River is 60 Miles as it moves in a curve. The river is 1 Mile Wide & 200 Yards Deep.
The Red Arrow: Is where the Luxury Cruiser Begins. The Red Arrow is 50 Miles away from the Pink Star Docking Station.
The Cruiser will travel down the river slowly at 50 MPH, dock at the Pink Star Station for an Hour to pick up more passengers , then turn around and go back to the gulf.
Total Travel Time For The Ship If It Were Not Stopped: 3 HRS
The Black Arrow: is where The Thieves start. The Black Arrow is 10 Miles Away From The Red Arrow & 25 Miles Away From The Pink Star Docking Station.
The Mountains Are 500 Yards High.
BlueStars: Represent small camps of people living in cabins. The people are locals to the area, 25 people per group.
The Yellow Star: Is the rendezvous point, where a Helicopter will pick up the thieves if they have the Jewels & Treasure.
The Cruiser Is Unsinkable & The Motor Cannot Be Destroyed. Besides that it is a ordinary Luxury Cruiser.
Open In New Tab To Enlarge
Guards:
There are 2 Treasure Exhibits On The Ship At The Green Stars. Protect them both & stop The Thieves.
Exhibit 1 Is In The Royal Promenade & Exhibit 2 is in The Solarium.
Do not hide the Treasure as it is a tourist exhibit.
Try, not to kill the passengers, if you can.
(Bad Guys, Will Still Do What They Have To)
Thieves:
You must steal both Treasure Exhibits, make your escape, and head to the Yellow Star to be picked up by the Helicopter.
To Give you more of a sporting chance; a Stealth Boat & Navy Seal Driver will be waiting for you on the River Bank.
The Driver Will Only Pick You Up & Drop You Off. He will not engage anyone in combat. If you want to drive the boat yourself, that's fine.
NO STEALTH BOAT WEAPONS OR GADGETS.
M80 Stiletto Stealth Boat
Good Luck & Remember All Other Tourney Rules Are In Place & Will Be Posted In Each Thread.
@lukehero: Looks awesome! I'll let sov go first. I can't post till tomorrow and even then I still have your other tourney and a thing with highaccuser. But can't wait! Time to turn the heat up! See what I did there ;)
My team will be breaking into two smaller squads. Prior to that however Kakashi will gift Cage a headset so the two squads can stay in contact with each other.
Venom, Spider-Girl and Iron Fist will be Squad 1: They will be stationed at the Promonade, The legend is as follows: Orange X is Iron Fist, Blue X is Spider-Girl, Black X is Agent Venom. The arrows show the direction they will be facing.
Flash will use the symbiote's transformation abilities to assume the form of a custodian and clear the crowd citing that the exhibit needs maintenance and will be closed for the remainder of the day, my team will take their positions. Flash will continue to act out the part of a custodian while we wait.
Spider-Man, Kakashi and Cage will be Squad 2. They will be stationed at the Solarium. The legend is as follows: Red X is Spider-Man, Yellow X is Cage and Purple X is Kakashi. The arrows show the direction they will be facing. The stars denote entrances around which Kakashi will set up some traps.
Kakashi will use a basic transformation jutsu and assume the form of a custodian, he will then clear the area, citing that the exhibit needs to be closed for maintenance for the remainder of the day. Once the area is clear he will lay his traps and Squad 1 will take their positions. Kakashi will continue to act out the part of a custodian while my team waits.
I'll wait to see what you do before I get started on how the squads will fight.
First off I'll start by asking @lukehero a question. How exactly does the whole boat thing work? Most of Sovereign's plan actually requires prep to accomplish. Getting into position which is a bit understandable but still a bit ify in my opinion, having Kakashi set up traps, and even moving all those people into said section. This would all require prep and prep that Sovereign's does not have. So would Sovereign's team be dropped off by some sort of helicopter? I mean It kind of defeats the purpose of 1 hour prep if I could just do all this anyway or at least for this mission. Its kind of confusing but its okay as I can work around it but just saying........
firstly due to the fact my team has an hour prep my team will have Batwing who possesses at least mach 2 to 3 speed bring Batman, and Damian to the beginning of the river where they'll wait for the boat to arrive and sneak on board dressed in more civilized clothes and blending in with the crowd as a father and son on a vacation. They'll learn about some of your teams plan and threw a telepathic link with either Rose, or Andrew inform them of your plans to move everyone and then my team will nowhere to strike. Also this kind of goes against my plans but I doubt you'd actually be able to keep check of 2000 passengers and it would be likely the other crew members would question some of your actions such as the real custodians, guards, or the manager.
But like I said with the info from Batman, and Damian my team will know where to strike then phase two off my plan kicks in!
Batwing will have the thirty batbots come and rain down knockout gas on the citizens or to create havoc by simply having them crash into the side of the boat your team is utilizing which won't cause damage to any civilians who as per your plan won't be in the vicinity and this would also have the civilians in a panic having them interrupt your whole squad plan and also putting civilians at risk due to Kakashi's traps. Also Kaskashi's traps wouldn't be logical in the first place. Like I said I doubt you could keep 2000 people in check as well as security who would be suspicious of your acts, and why would they listen to custodians in the first place rather than do there jobs and look around?
If you don't like this I could simply have Batwing wait for the ship and hover around the ship with invisibility, and observe what your team does and scout out your positions threw the use of detective vision which allows him to see heat signatures or simply see threw objects so it's essentially enhanced X-Ray vision. Then I repeat phase two of my plan which will have the batbots upon the banks waiting to repeat the same situation
Now time for phase three!
Andrew proceeds to bring Rose, and Slade on board with your team dispersed trying to handle crowd control, or protect the the set. The team will make themselves known then your team (squad 1) would most likely try to attack them which will prove to be there downfall. Andrew will generate a shields which have withstood blows from countless missiles and have Rose dampen them from the inside as none of them could do much to the shield but my team can't really do anything within it except have Rose dampen May, possibly Iron Fist, and I'm not sure it will work on the symbiote but definitely May, and most likely Iron Fist. Then Andrew removes the shield and the only problem is Agent Venom who gets taken out threw either Batman's sonic batarangs, or Batwings sonic canons.
Then for the final phase of my plan!
Rose once again proceeds to dampen both Peter, and Cage, and most likely Kakashi then my team comes in and wrecks shop on yours and proceeds to take the Jewels and we win!
First off I'll start by asking @lukehero a question. How exactly does the whole boat thing work? Most of Sovereign's plan actually requires prep to accomplish. Getting into position which is a bit understandable but still a bit ify in my opinion, having Kakashi set up traps, and even moving all those people into said section. This would all require prep and prep that Sovereign's does not have. So would Sovereign's team be dropped off by some sort of helicopter? I mean It kind of defeats the purpose of 1 hour prep if I could just do all this anyway or at least for this mission. Its kind of confusing but its okay as I can work around it but just saying........
Are you asking me would he have time to do all that in the absence of prep? That is a debating point. You have to challenge that yourself. As you have to challenge SoV on his ideas based on what he has listed.
Good start. Please let me know if you have any questions.
Can't wait to see some scans from both your teams. :D
@mikep12: While you're waiting for Luke to respond I'll clear up some stuff.
firstly due to the fact my team has an hour prep my team will have Batwing who possesses at least mach 2 to 3 speed bring Batman, and Damian to the beginning of the river where they'll wait for the boat to arrive and sneak on board dressed in more civilized clothes and blending in with the crowd as a father and son on a vacation.
Hold up, prep isn't going to let you sneak onto the boat prior to the match begins, donning regular clothes (assuming you have them), sure I have no problem with that But if you want to have Batwing ferry your team one or two at a time, cool. But you're going to have to wait until the match begins. I'd also like to see travel feats that establish Batwing's travel speed at Mach 2/3, that's even faster than the Batman Beyond suit, the successor to this one (Terry's tops out a a couple hundred mph)
They'll learn about some of your teams plan
How? If they try to observe my team they'll trigger their Spider Senses and they will be dealt with quickly and brutally.
Also this kind of goes against my plans but I doubt you'd actually be able to keep check of 2000 passengers and it would be likely the other crew members would question some of your actions such as the real custodians, guards, or the manager.
What Guards? My team are the guards and why would the custodians or crew question anything? They have other jobs to do that have to do with running the ship. I don't need to keep track of every passenger either, 2,000 passengers aren't going to the exhibits, it's a cruise ship, it is beyond reasonable to expect the vast majority aren't even at the exhibits, their is other entertainment, they could be sleeping, eating, copulating or any number of other things that normal people do on a cruise ship and once my teams close it all down they won't have to keep track of anyone, if anyone approchs they will be turned away, if they continue they will be treated as a hostile.
Batwing will have the thirty batbots come and rain down knockout gas on the citizens or to create havoc by simply having them crash into the side of the boat your team is utilizing which won't cause damage to any civilians who as per your plan won't be in the vicinity and this would also have the civilians in a panic having them interrupt your whole squad plan and also putting civilians at risk due to Kakashi's traps. Also Kaskashi's traps wouldn't be logical in the first place.
That works (as much as plan like that does) under the assumption that their is some significant amount of people there to cause a panic. The exhibits are closed off, no one should be anywhere near the exhibit. As for traps, Kakashi is a ninja and has employed traps in battle before, let me know if you'd like to see feats of this in play.
Like I said I doubt you could keep 2000 people in check as well as security who would be suspicious of your acts, and why would they listen to custodians in the first place rather than do there jobs and look around?
Again my team are the guards, it would be more than reasonable to making the deduction that the people staffing the ship know this and also that they would have a degree of autonomy. If there were fodder troops around I'm sure Luke would have mentioned it besides if there were they would be at my disposal as my team is the primary defense against the thieves (your team).
Andrew proceeds to bring Rose, and Slade on board with your team dispersed trying to handle crowd control, or protect the the set. The team will make themselves known then your team (squad 1) would most likely try to attack them which will prove to be there downfall. Andrew will generate a shields which have withstood blows from countless missiles and have Rose dampen them from the inside as none of them could do much to the shield but my team can't really do anything within it except have Rose dampen May, possibly Iron Fist, and I'm not sure it will work on the symbiote but definitely May, and most likely Iron Fist. Then Andrew removes the shield and the only problem is Agent Venom who gets taken out threw either Batman's sonic batarangs, or Batwings sonic canons.
Oh I was hoping you'd do something like this. Let's get to this first Rose's 'dampen' ability. It suppress durability, this is even explicitly stated on panel. The question to if it surpressed anything other than durability was brought up by @pr0metheus to which @dextersinister and I stated that it doesn't well let's have it from the horses mouth
This does not affect my teams other powers and while that could be useful you've stuck your team in a bubble. As for the durability of the shield, Iron Fist should make short work of it.
Fist's punching power is ridiculous, he's punched a Helicarrier out of the air, punched a train full of explosives greater than the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima, hit Black Panther with punches described as freight train in power, Iron Fisted Skar (Hulk's son) and Ragnarok (Thor robot).
I'll post the other feats if you'd like but the power Danny has should break the shield easily. Then my team's massive stat advantage comes into play and they take your team down fairly quickly.
First off I'll start by asking @lukehero a question. How exactly does the whole boat thing work? Most of Sovereign's plan actually requires prep to accomplish. Getting into position which is a bit understandable but still a bit ify in my opinion, having Kakashi set up traps, and even moving all those people into said section. This would all require prep and prep that Sovereign's does not have. So would Sovereign's team be dropped off by some sort of helicopter? I mean It kind of defeats the purpose of 1 hour prep if I could just do all this anyway or at least for this mission. Its kind of confusing but its okay as I can work around it but just saying........
I don't need prep, the whole plan from top to bottom shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
@pr0metheus: That's Peter. The white costume is one Reed Richards gave him when he was offered (and accepted) a spot in the Future Foundation after Johnny Storm's death. It's made of unstable molecules and he wore it when he was with the New Avengers/FF, it can actually change between that form and the classic red and blue costume he usually wears.
@pr0metheus: That's Peter. The white costume is one Reed Richards gave him when he was offered (and accepted) a spot in the Future Foundation after Johnny Storm's death. It's made of unstable molecules and he wore it when he was with the New Avengers/FF, it can actually change between that form and the classic red and blue costume he usually wears.
Isn't Peter dead? (I haven't finished reading up to date for the Superior Spiderman run)
@pr0metheus: I won't spoil the ending of it for you. Peter dies in ASM 700 but that costume predates that. When he got that costume it was sometime between ~2010-2012 don't remember the specfic year but it was pre Marvel Now! for sure.
@sovereign91001: You didn't have to do that, I just wanted to know who it was because I thought Peter was dead. I think that suit and Scarlet Spider's (And Kaines 90's suit you showed me) are the best looking Spider-suits.
I never liked the original one, I think the black goes better then the blue.
(I apologize if there's any misunderstanding in my post as I couldn't quote for some reason but each point will follow each of his quotes)
1. I said my team of Bruce and Damian would be sneaked on board by Batwing at the beginning of the match which would be when the boat arrives and since my team will already be there they should have no problem doing so which is even supported by your own plan. I'll get to this later. As for the clothes during prep Bruce and Damian can just steal some clothes from one of the Cabins at one of the blue stars on the map. If you don't like that as soon as my team sneaks aboard they simply KO one of the staff (or at least Bruce does) while Damian steals some random clothes or they both do and simply portray themselves as a dad and son on a vacation. And you do realize the Batman Beyond suit has zero feats in the New 52 that put it above the Batwing armor? As for Batwing's speed......
Catches up to a speeding jet
2. Why would my team observing yours cause the Spider sense to go off? Its not as if Bruce and Damian aren't actually threatening them. Also I understand the heroes are now willing to kill but I seriously doubt Spiderman or any other member of your team will come and brutalize Batman or Damian. Especially a little kid with morals and this will most likely put any citizens in the area in a panic since you'll have to actually come to my team and when you kill them they'll definitely or most likely start panicking
3. OK there are no guards. That doesn't benefit your team but it does do so for my team. This will make it much easier for Bruce and Damian to sneak aboard. And there are tons of reasons they'd question your actions and I'd just be nitpicking so I'm going to ignore it. As for your plan it would be likely that with a few quick glances of the place Batman could get a basic idea of what your team is doing. And you never countered my Batwing argument
4. So your telling me after a massive explosion there won't be dozens of panicking citizens running around? and let me restate mt statement about the batbots. I'll only send 10 of them in. 3 or 2 is enough to blow a hole in the side of the boat while the others go crashing into your team but 30 would just be overkill. And Batwing who controls the batbots will know exactly where to send them due to detective vision and once he hits his target he'll zoom in and grab the jewels while your team is in disarray. And I don't see what Kakashi being good at setting up traps for battles has to do with citizens running into them. And you do know what happens when the explosives go off right? The civilians will run right to you guys for protection or disperse around the boat and most likely walk into one of those traps.
Detective
5. Those are fair points and like I said not having guards only benefits my team
6. Lol! Right because Deathstroke who literally just learned about the ability is an expert on Roses abilities. Nowhere in that scan is the full extent of her ability actually told and if you looked at the scan I posted he was clearly restricted by Rocks even tho a second ago he was busting threw steel walls suggesting it also dampens strength. And now what? Your team is going to punch the shield and break there hands? Cool......
7. I doubt Iron Fist will use a hellicarier busting attack and especially so since there on a deck full of people who are panicking as well as the fact that would probably level the deck. Punching Skarr is a good feat but I doubt the punch was equal to dozens of missiles. A missile would annihilate a train and I don't see how explosives being there makes the feat better. If anything it downplays the feat making the explosives seem like they did most of the work.
8. Even if you did break the shield I could counter and I can agree with your point that it would take only a few minutes to shut the exhibit down.
How do I plan to counter this? Its quite simple really (not implying you said anything about this). Andrew will turn mist form and get behind your team and proceed to do what is featured in in the second spoiler block
Mist form behind Batman
He also has other abilities such as the ability to turn people into stone and telekinesis but this should be all I need
Summary
Batman and Robin sneak aboard and find out your teams plans
Batwing also observes your team and with the additional info from Bruce and Damian uses his detective vision to see where to strike your team
Batwing uses 3 or 2 batbots to strike the side of the ship your teams is in and use 7 or 8 more come and put your team in disarray.
Batwing comes in and grabs the jewels and we win
And My team of Rose, Deathstroke, and Andrew serve as the distraction they were mean't to while Batwing steals the Jewels
@sovereign91001: @lukehero: @mikep12: Since I never set an official date in this tourney I am going to by the standard 1 to 2 weeks. Some people are moving fast, some are going slow.
@sovereign91001: If your lucky hitting the back button my have your post waiting for you in the reply box, that's saved me a bit of effort a few times.
I said my team of Bruce and Damian would be sneaked on board by Batwing at the beginning of the match which would be when the boat arrives and since my team will already be there they should have no problem doing so which is even supported by your own plan. I'll get to this later
From my understanding the boat actually arrives one hour after the match begins...your prep is one hour before the match begins, two hours in total, @lukehero could you clear this up? If I'm indeed right your team has to either wait an hour before they can board the boat as one or they have to be ferried by Batwing, one or two at a time, the distance of forty miles, does he have the fuel to make the journey multiple times, or even once?
As for Batwing's speed, nothing in that scan proved (or even indicated) that jet was going at Mach 1, 2 or 3. I'm curious where did you get that number from? Most Jets to my knowledge don't make it a habit traveling at cruising speed above Mach 1, for instance the cruising speed of a F-18a is about 300kts or about 345 mph, top speed is Mach 1.8 (~1370 mph) that's a big difference. This is mainly because 1. Fuel and The G-forces of supersonic maneuvers wreck havoc on the pilots bodies. Anyway there is no indication how fast the jet was going, it's likely to say it was a few hundred mph, I'm doubtful of even Mach 1 though.
Why would my team observing yours cause the Spider sense to go off? Its not as if Bruce and Damian aren't actually threatening them.
Batman and Damian represent potential danger, the Spider-Sense is triggered by potential and active threats. This has been stated and shown many times in the comics, it's completely involuntary and even MJ has set it off by something as benign as playfully tossing a pillow at Peter. May's Spider sense is even more sensitive than Peter's, it even detects danger even if it's not targeted to her specifically but others in her general vicinity.
Also I understand the heroes are now willing to kill but I seriously doubt Spiderman or any other member of your team will come and brutalize Batman or Damian. Especially a little kid with morals and this will most likely put any citizens in the area in a panic since you'll have to actually come to my team and when you kill them they'll definitely or most likely start panicking.
First there are no civilians, my team saw to that earlier. I should have been specific, by brutally I meant KTFO'd, Damian is a child so Web incapacitation is the more likely method as we're still in character.
That doesn't benefit your team
Actually it does, less variables I have to keep track of and worry about.
but it does do so for my team.
Do tell.
This will make it much easier for Bruce and Damian to sneak aboard.
Because rent-a-cops were a significant barrier to entry for Batman, right?
And there are tons of reasons they'd question your actions and I'd just be nitpicking so I'm going to ignore it.
I'd like to hear three solid reason. While you're pondering that here are a few things to consider, why would employees paid to do things that have to do with the running of a cruise ship (cooking, waiters, leading activites, repairing, maid services etc.) that have nothing to do with guard duties? Why would arouse suspicion about the people who were contracted to protect 100 BILLIONdollars in treasure doing their job? And above that why in the world would would these hypothetical people be at the exhibits in the first place instead of doing the jobs they are paid to do? That's like saying my team should care what Joe Whogivesadamn is stuffing his face with at one of the buffets.
As for your plan it would be likely that with a few quick glances of the place Batman could get a basic idea of what your team is doing.
Oh he is a telepath? No, has a danger sense perhaps? Sarcasm aside, he'd see exactly what my team wants him to see; two heroes standing guard while a custodian cleans the exhibit. Doing so would compromise the point of scouting anyway, so he & Robin are down.
And you never countered my Batwing argument
Your Batwing argument, this one?
If you don't like this I could simply have Batwing wait for the ship and hover around the ship with invisibility, and observe what your team does and scout out your positions threw the use of detective vision which allows him to see heat signatures or simply see threw objects so it's essentially enhanced X-Ray vision.
Invisibility doesn't matter, sight (or lack of it) isn't an obstacle to the Spider Sense.
Gallery
Gallery
So either of my mini teams will know they are being observed and what's he going to see that's going to help him? A custodian cleaning the exhibit and two other heroes standing guard?
So your telling me after a massive explosion there won't be dozens of panicking citizens running around? and let me restate mt statement about the batbots. I'll only send 10 of them in. 3 or 2 is enough to blow a hole in the side of the boat while the others go crashing into your team but 30 would just be overkill. And Batwing who controls the batbots will know exactly where to send them due to detective vision and once he hits his target he'll zoom in and grab the jewels while your team is in disarray.
I don't buy this argument for a few reasons:
1.) This is massively out of character. Our teams are in character, cabins, on that side of the boat, steel shrapnel that will cause more damage than explosions itself, the bat family aren't fans of collateral damage in general and the reckless endangerment of repair crews, other civilians who might become injured in the process of evacuating the damaged section of the ship or assessing the damage screams the exact opposite of someone who's wearing the Bat symbol.
2.) I've been in a crowd of panicking people before and trust me when I say a panicking crowd has a tendency to trample each other, so you've injured and potentially killed people in an effort to cause a misdirection? Sounds sketchy to me.
3.) An explosion is just going to put my team on guard and if Batwing is sending drones near my team, their Spider Senses will warn them before hand.
4.) There are no civies near the exhibits in the first place. So it doesn't matter in any case.
5.) I'm doubtful of DV's ability to see through the hull in the first place; in your scan the support beams are clearly seen as not being x-rayed, the thin metal of the shipping container wasn't a problem, but the thickness of a cruise ship hull should frustrate the DV lenses if that feat is anything to go by.
And I don't see what Kakashi being good at setting up traps for battles has to do with citizens running into them. And you do know what happens when the explosives go off right? The civilians will run right to you guys for protection or disperse around the boat and most likely walk into one of those traps.
Irrelevant. Explosive tags, (I assume this is what you're talking about by explosives) are remotely detonated by the ninja who placed them with a hand seal; no seal, no explosion. No explosion means no collateral damage, of course their are no civies near the exhibts so it's a moot point anyway.
Lol! Right because Deathstroke who literally just learned about the ability is an expert on Roses abilities. Nowhere in that scan is the full extent of her ability actually told and if you looked at the scan I posted he was clearly restricted by Rocks even tho a second ago he was busting threw steel walls suggesting it also dampens strength. And now what? Your team is going to punch the shield and break there hands? Cool......
The attempt to discredit Deathstroke as an unreliable narrator is a weak argument, Deathstroke was clearly functioning as an expository literary device, and this is clearly the way Justin Jordan meant for it to come across. Also there was no rebuttal from Rose, if she had something to say she would certainly correct Deathstroke or at least use a rejoinder something along the lines of 'that's not all I can do' this is very much in her character from her appearances in Superboy, The Ravagers, etc.
The reason why he was unable to easily break out of the rock (it still didn't take a lot of effort, he used one hand and bent the hell out of Rose's sword) has more to do with Terra than Rose. In the scan Terra sucker punches him (as it were) between to very large pillars of rock. Physical strength is very much tied to physical condition and Terra's hit clearly injured him, in addition he was likely thrown off by those injuries and the pain suffered from them so he wasn't able to use the full extant of his powers.
In any case I put much more stock in on panel evidence than fan assertions and until a showing appears that contradicts what Justin Jordan wrote and validates your point of view appears, I'm going with the explicitly stated on panel evidence.
As for breaking their hands, that's funny. Even if Rose's powers worked like you were suggesting (they don't) they wouldn't affect Danny, the only one who's punching the shield. He is not a metahuman (Majestic, Superboy) or the Marvel equivalent; a human mutate, he is also not a mutant. Danny's powers are derived from a combination of skill and magic, they would not effect Venom, you'd only get May who's not doing anything at the moment so lowered durability isn't a factor.
I doubt Iron Fist will use a hellicarier busting attack and especially so since there on a deck full of people who are panicking as well as the fact that would probably level the deck.
First (once again) there are no civilians, I notice you seem to be leaning on this point pretty heavily, imo it's a fairly weak argument.
Secondly and more importantly... Level the deck?
Even Katt Williams is bewildered. He said and I quote: "Da Fuq?"
Kidding aside, You seems you're under the (mistaken) assumption the Iron Fist is a massive AOE attack, it's not. It's confined to Danny's fist.
'Leet Paint skillz.
As you can see in the illustration above the deck comes nowhere into the equation. The sequence of events is as follows: Shield raised, 'Fist punches shield, shield Breaks, GG. Danny is free to punch as hard as he likes.
Punching Skarr is a good feat but I doubt the punch was equal to dozens of missiles. A missile would annihilate a train and I don't see how explosives being there makes the feat better. If anything it downplays the feat making the explosives seem like they did most of the work.
There is a concept in physics called force, in case you don't know force is measurement of the push (or pull) two objects have when they interact. The equation is F=MA or Force equals mass x acceleration. So the faster an object is moving and the more mass it has the greater it's force it generates when it interacts with another object. So punching a train moving at speed packed with more conventional explosions that have a greater explosive power than the 9,700 lb nuclear bomb (ftr that is a crapton of conventional explosive) that was dropped on Hiroshima is much more impressive than punching an empty standing train or even an empty train moving at the same speed. There is much more mass so there is much more force.
As for Skaar, that seems like a lowball attempt. I've seen the feat it, blew up a couple houses, that level of explosion wouldn't phase a Hulk level character and certainly wouldn't send him flying the length of a city block, in any case Danny can punch harder:
Helicarriers are like floating towns (if memory serves they're measured at about a mile in length), the fact that he can knock one out of the air shows he can generate well in excess of the amount of force he'd need to break the shield.
Even if you did break the shield I could counter and I can agree with your point that it would take only a few minutes to shut the exhibit down. How do I plan to counter this? Its quite simple really (not implying you said anything about this). Andrew will turn mist form and get behind your team and proceed to do what is featured in in the second spoiler block Then Andrew removes the shield and the only problem is Agent Venom who gets taken out threw either Batman's sonic batarangs, or Batwings sonic canons.
Is that teleportation BFR & a TK Crush? I don't think either would likely be allowed. Simiarly I couldn't use Kakashi's Kamui to portal cut your team's heads off.
As for the mist, Danny has AOE attacks he can use that'll save him, Peter and May won't be snuck up on and Kakashi has the body flicker technique and substituion jutsus, along with his sharingan so that won't work on him either. Cage and Venom are too durable to be affected by a grab and Venom can use tendrils to impale him. I wouldn't bother with the stone transformation either, I don't think transmutation is legal either.
Last point, I forgot to address the sonics. I'm going to Copy and Paste what I said in another debate here as it's applicable:
While it's known that Symbiotes have a weakness to sonics and fire, it is by no means a 'I win' button as proven with that fight (the SpOck/Venom fight in SS 23), but here is another example of what I mean.
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(Scans may be out of order)
Even with a Spider-Man level character, a Captain America level character, explosive arrows, sonics arrows and electocution Flash still doesn't go down. Agent Venom has massive durability and a healing factor that Wolverine would be jealous off, so sonics and fire don't always win the day as has been the case for the previous Venom's...I believe Gargan Venom even laughed off getting set on fire.
He should be able to tank a couple hits from the sonic cannon (assuming Batwing is able to get the drop on him). Venom has the speed to blitz the hell out of him though and getting hit with a sonic cannon is going to hurt Flash and piss off the symbiote. Symbiote weapons are powerful enough to decapitate someone as durbale Carnage, it should have no problem getting through the Batwing armor. Especially if the symbiote or Flash gets angry enough to Vulk out.
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Batman & Robin are incapcitated and or KO'd because they chose to go scouting against a team with danger senses, my team's massive stat advantage took them out fairly quickly.
Your team is now down 4-6 against a team that physically outclasses yours by a large margin.
THERE ARE NO CIVILIANS ANYWHERE NEAR THE EXHIBITS :)
Iron Fist has more than enough power to break the shield.
Rose's dampen ability won't work on my team other than to supress durability and even then, it'll work on May only.
The sonics aren't an insta win against Flash, he can tank a few and you've just pissed him off.
The Cruiser will travel down the river slowly at 50 MPH, dock at the Pink Star Station for an Hour to pick up more passengers , then turn around and go back to the gulf.
Total Travel Time For The Ship If It Were Not Stopped: 3 HRS
It's 1 Hour if the boat is non stop from Red Arrow to Pink Star.
Everyone is still in character, Good guys can kill, but not kill innocent people.
@lukehero: @sovereign91001: sorry guys I'm dropping out the tourney. For some reason I can't quote anymore nor can I copy and paste so it'd make my post hard to understand and yeah I'm doing all these threw Google chrome but trying to post on the internet is like trying to drown the ocean. Sorry.
Maybe. I'm asking around as to what the problem is and I can't exactly get Firefox. I use a family computer so we can use 2000 things but I'll try something and see If I can get back in action.
The Cruiser will travel down the river slowly at 50 MPH, dock at the Pink Star Station for an Hour to pick up more passengers , then turn around and go back to the gulf.
Total Travel Time For The Ship If It Were Not Stopped: 3 HRS
It's 1 Hour if the boat is non stop from Red Arrow to Pink Star.
Everyone is still in character, Good guys can kill, but not kill innocent people.
@lukehero: @sovereign91001: sorry guys I'm dropping out the tourney. For some reason I can't quote anymore nor can I copy and paste so it'd make my post hard to understand and yeah I'm doing all these threw Google chrome but trying to post on the internet is like trying to drown the ocean. Sorry.
Is your browser up to date? I'm using Chrome as well.
From my understanding the boat actually arrives one hour after the match begins...your prep is one hour before the match begins, two hours in total, @lukehero could you clear this up? If I'm indeed right your team has to either wait an hour before they can board the boat as one or they have to be ferried by Batwing, one or two at a time, the distance of forty miles, does he have the fuel to make the journey multiple times, or even once?
What? Why would the boat be arriving after the match has already started and especially one hour? This gives my team 2 more hours to prep and simply get in position and I don't see how that would hinder Batwing from bringing both Robin and Batman aboard at the same time and why would Batwing be making the journey multiple times when he'll also be spying on the boat and yes he'll last the whole time.
As for Batwing's speed, nothing in that scan proved (or even indicated) that jet was going at Mach 1, 2 or 3. I'm curious where did you get that number from? Most Jets to my knowledge don't make it a habit traveling at cruising speed above Mach 1, for instance the cruising speed of a F-18a is about 300kts or about 345 mph, top speed is Mach 1.8 (~1370 mph) that's a big difference. This is mainly because 1. Fuel and The G-forces of supersonic maneuvers wreck havoc on the pilots bodies. Anyway there is no indication how fast the jet was going, it's likely to say it was a few hundred mph, I'm doubtful of even Mach 1 though.
The jet was going at top speeds attempting to kamikaze the city and at least going at mach speed and I don't really think the driver cared about his body at that point.
Batman and Damian represent potential danger, the Spider-Sense is triggered by potential and active threats. This has been stated and shown many times in the comics, it's completely involuntary and even MJ has set it off by something as benign as playfully tossing a pillow at Peter. May's Spider sense is even more sensitive than Peter's, it even detects danger even if it's not targeted to her specifically but others in her general vicinity.
Cool but it doesn't matter if they don't know what to look for and all Bruce and Damian have to do is find out the position of the jewels and simply get turned around. Even if the spider sense did go off your team wouldn't expect a dad and son and will most likely suspect that one of my team is attacking.
First there are no civilians, my team saw to that earlier. I should have been specific, by brutally I meant KTFO'd, Damian is a child so Web incapacitation is the more likely method as we're still in character.
Like I said even if you did find out Damian and Bruce you'd have to come towards them to put them down and yeah that sounds more like your team.
Actually it does, less variables I have to keep track of and worry about.
Cool but like I said it also makes my job a lot easier
Do tell.
It will make it easier for my team of Bruce and Damian to sneak around and access different parts of the ship like the engine room.
Because rent-a-cops were a significant barrier to entry for Batman, right?
But they could also give my team away but of course Batman could sneak by them with the greatest of ease
I'd like to hear three solid reason. While you're pondering that here are a few things to consider, why would employees paid to do things that have to do with the running of a cruise ship (cooking, waiters, leading activites, repairing, maid services etc.) that have nothing to do with guard duties? Why would arouse suspicion about the people who were contracted to protect 100 BILLIONdollars in treasure doing their job? And above that why in the world would would these hypothetical people be at the exhibits in the first place instead of doing the jobs they are paid to do? That's like saying my team should care what Joe Whogivesadamn is stuffing his face with at one of the buffets.
Like I said I'd just be nitpicking man so you should probably just leave it alone but if you wanted one example that would be the ship manager asking your tea, as to why there not guarding other parts of the ship.
Oh he is a telepath? No, has a danger sense perhaps? Sarcasm aside, he'd see exactly what my team wants him to see; two heroes standing guard while a custodian cleans the exhibit. Doing so would compromise the point of scouting anyway, so he & Robin are down.
OK the Batman scanning everything plan was a bit illogical but never the lest I've already presented the father son plan in this argument so we should be good here. That's what Batman knows he'll see as my team has advance knowledge of yours which includes how you guys act and think as well as your abilties so they can make the assumption that your team is all within this one area and I think my team would find it quite suspicious as to why you had to simple janitors with you.
our Batwing argument, this one?
Invisibility doesn't matter, sight (or lack of it) isn't an obstacle to the Spider Sense.
Batwing posses invisibility and what does your team plan to do about it? Batwing will be hovering near the ship with his detective vision and if he see's your team make a move he simply fly's away and observes from a farther distance
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So either of my mini teams will know they are being observed and what's he going to see that's going to help him? A custodian cleaning the exhibit and two other heroes standing guard?
I doubt they'll know whats going on and I doubt they'd actually be able to catch Batwing who will have his detective vision and watching your teams every move as well as your team being inside of the actual boat and in the same immediate area makes it even easier for him to react.
I don't buy this argument for a few reasons:
1.) This is massively out of character. Our teams are in character, cabins, on that side of the boat, steel shrapnel that will cause more damage than explosions itself, the bat family aren't fans of collateral damage in general and the reckless endangerment of repair crews, other civilians who might become injured in the process of evacuating the damaged section of the ship or assessing the damage screams the exact opposite of someone who's wearing the Bat symbol.
What? My team will be hitting the side of the boat you've closed off and turned everyone away from. Not where there are tons of civilians.
2.) I've been in a crowd of panicking people before and trust me when I say a panicking crowd has a tendency to trample each other, so you've injured and potentially killed people in an effort to cause a misdirection? Sounds sketchy to me.
Like I said I could also have batbots come and drop down knockout gas of the civilians and still use them to kamikaze your team.
3.) An explosion is just going to put my team on guard and if Batwing is sending drones near my team, their Spider Senses will warn them before hand.
Why does it matter? Its not as if your team can react to all of them and there simply going to explode so even if they were warned your team would still be in disarray and some of them would most likely be killed.
4.) There are no civies near the exhibits in the first place. So it doesn't matter in any case.
I know this and that's why Batwing will have no problem sending the batbots flying into your side of the ship
5.) I'm doubtful of DV's ability to see through the hull in the first place; in your scan the support beams are clearly seen as not being x-rayed, the thin metal of the shipping container wasn't a problem, but the thickness of a cruise ship hull should frustrate the DV lenses if that feat is anything to go by.
Your team isn't even within the hull. There in the exhibit which is not the hull and not that as thick as it and I doubt it wouldn't work unless you provide actual proof.
Irrelevant. Explosive tags, (I assume this is what you're talking about by explosives) are remotely detonated by the ninja who placed them with a hand seal; no seal, no explosion. No explosion means no collateral damage, of course their are no civies near the exhibts so it's a moot point anyway.
Well it doesn't really matter since Batwing will be snatching the jewels on the side of the exhibit and none of my team except Bruce and Damian will have to worry about the traps but even Bruce and Damian won't have to worry due to there disguises
The attempt to discredit Deathstroke as an unreliable narrator is a weak argument, Deathstroke was clearly functioning as an expository literary device, and this is clearly the way Justin Jordan meant for it to come across. Also there was no rebuttal from Rose, if she had something to say she would certainly correct Deathstroke or at least use a rejoinder something along the lines of 'that's not all I can do' this is very much in her character from her appearances in Superboy, The Ravagers, etc.
I'm not even sure what the first point was suppose to mean and I don't see how Rose not giving a rebuttal has to do with anything. That's just nitpicking and in that case Rose didn't want Slade to know the full extent of here abilties. If something isn't explicitly stated by said character what there ability is and not some guy who literally just found out about it and how do you know what Justin Jordan's thoughts are?
The reason why he was unable to easily break out of the rock (it still didn't take a lot of effort, he used one hand and bent the hell out of Rose's sword) has more to do with Terra than Rose. In the scan Terra sucker punches him (as it were) between to very large pillars of rock. Physical strength is very much tied to physical condition and Terra's hit clearly injured him, in addition he was likely thrown off by those injuries and the pain suffered from them so he wasn't able to use the full extant of his powers.
I doubt that would hinder him breaking the rocks and breaking a sword with basically zero feats does not equal breaking steel doors.
In any case I put much more stock in on panel evidence than fan assertions and until a showing appears that contradicts what Justin Jordan wrote and validates your point of view appears, I'm going with the explicitly stated on panel evidence.
The on panel statement is made by a guy who literally just found out about the ability and I don't see what JJ has to do with anything.
As for breaking their hands, that's funny. Even if Rose's powers worked like you were suggesting (they don't) they wouldn't affect Danny, the only one who's punching the shield. He is not a metahuman (Majestic, Superboy) or the Marvel equivalent; a human mutate, he is also not a mutant. Danny's powers are derived from a combination of skill and magic, they would not effect Venom, you'd only get May who's not doing anything at the moment so lowered durability isn't a factor
Even if there strength wasn't removed they'd still have no durability (which will still work).and they'd still break there hands. Okay like I said I wasn't sure about Danny and I said it most likely wouldn't work on Venom or something around those lines.
First (once again) there are no civilians, I notice you seem to be leaning on this point pretty heavily, imo it's a fairly weak argument.
Secondly and more importantly... Level the deck?
It kind of seems like your not reading my post. I said my team would come on to the deck where there would be tons of civilians that are KO'ed by the gas. And yes level the deck.
Even Katt Williams is bewildered. He said and I quote: "Da Fuq?"
Kidding aside, You seems you're under the (mistaken) assumption the Iron Fist is a massive AOE attack, it's not. It's confined to Danny's fist.
I never said it was an AOE attack but I'll get to that later. Also who is Katt Williams? Am I suppose to get the joke. Seriously do tell. (after the debate)
As you can see in the illustration above the deck comes nowhere into the equation. The sequence of events is as follows: Shield raised, 'Fist punches shield, shield Breaks, GG. Danny is free to punch as hard as he likes.
You don't think that the pressure applied by the force of the punch would have the deck breaking into pieces as it clearly sent cracks threw the steel hull of the hellicarrier but now apply that to not as stable wood floors.
There is a concept in physics called force, in case you don't know force is measurement of the push (or pull) two objects have when they interact. The equation is F=MA or Force equals mass x acceleration. So the faster an object is moving and the more mass it has the greater it's force it generates when it interacts with another object. So punching a train moving at speed packed with more conventional explosions that have a greater explosive power than the 9,700 lb nuclear bomb (ftr that is a crapton of conventional explosive) that was dropped on Hiroshima is much more impressive than punching an empty standing train or even an empty train moving at the same speed. There is much more mass so there is much more force.
Well the feats you posted looked very confusing. The train was seemingly moving at the speed of light something that shouldn't be allowed here and if not above mach speeds and that explosion hardly looked the size of the nucleaur bomb on Hiroshima and I'm still not seeing how bombs help especially since they seemed to get over hyped by you. Tho that was a nice scientific presentaion.
As for Skaar, that seems like a lowball attempt. I've seen the feat it, blew up a couple houses, that level of explosion wouldn't phase a Hulk level character and certainly wouldn't send him flying the length of a city block, in any case Danny can punch harder:
Skarr hardly looked like he was expecting that or that he was even prepared for something like that to happen so it wasn't low-balling and yeah I'm pretty sure dozens of missiles would level more than a few houses but okay
Helicarriers are like floating towns (if memory serves they're measured at about a mile in length), the fact that he can knock one out of the air shows he can generate well in excess of the amount of force he'd need to break the shield.
Did you not see the cracks left on the hellicarrier by that punch? A blow like that will destroy the deck so I don't see what your trying to do there.
Is that teleportation BFR & a TK Crush? I don't think either would likely be allowed. Simiarly I couldn't use Kakashi's Kamui to portal cut your team's heads off.
No its neither of those as your team can still react unlike your plan to portal cut and Andrew could simply stay like that or turn his allies intangible
As for the mist, Danny has AOE attacks he can use that'll save him, Peter and May won't be snuck up on and Kakashi has the body flicker technique and substituion jutsus, along with his sharingan so that won't work on him either. Cage and Venom are too durable to be affected by a grab and Venom can use tendrils to impale him. I wouldn't bother with the stone transformation either, I don't think transmutation is legal either.
How does any of this help with mist form or characters getting there heads blown off and there are other characters with a similar ability to the stone freeze so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Last point, I forgot to address the sonics. I'm going to Copy and Paste what I said in another debate here as it's applicable:
While it's known that Symbiotes have a weakness to sonics and fire, it is by no means a 'I win' button as proven with that fight (the SpOck/Venom fight in SS 23), but here is another example of what I mean.
Gallery
(Scans may be out of order)
Even with a Spider-Man level character, a Captain America level character, explosive arrows, sonics arrows and electocution Flash still doesn't go down. Agent Venom has massive durability and a healing factor that Wolverine would be jealous off, so sonics and fire don't always win the day as has been the case for the previous Venom's...I believe Gargan Venom even laughed off getting set on fire.
He should be able to tank a couple hits from the sonic cannon (assuming Batwing is able to get the drop on him). Venom has the speed to blitz the hell out of him though and getting hit with a sonic cannon is going to hurt Flash and piss off the symbiote. Symbiote weapons are powerful enough to decapitate someone as durbale Carnage, it should have no problem getting through the Batwing armor. Especially if the symbiote or Flash gets angry enough to Vulk out.
Your team will be in disarray due to the batbots striking your side of the ship and Batwing will simply come in and grab the jewels so I don't know why I'd have to worry about this and yes Batwing does poses sonics
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Batman & Robin are incapcitated and or KO'd because they chose to go scouting against a team with danger senses, my team's massive stat advantage took them out fairly quickly.
Your team is now down 4-6 against a team that physically outclasses yours by a large margin.
THERE ARE NO CIVILIANS ANYWHERE NEAR THE EXHIBITS :)
Iron Fist has more than enough power to break the shield.
Rose's dampen ability won't work on my team other than to supress durability and even then, it'll work on May only.
The sonics aren't an insta win against Flash, he can tank a few and you've just pissed him off.
Summary:
Bruce and Damian don't get detected and find out where the exhibit is without notice
My team doesn't plan on going in on a physical battle
Read my post. All my plans revolve around locations where there are civilians
Andrew takes out Iron Fist
So basically the ability does work according to your standards even tho I think it can do more but this will make May, Peter, and Cage and Cage being specifically useless
Sonics will do there purpose
Batbots still crash into the exhibit spot
Your team is in dissaray
Batwing swoops in quickly and steals the jewels and we win
Alright, let me know when you guys are ready to wrap up & post your closers. WELCOME BACK MIKE!!! Let's avoid turning this into a back & forth sort of thing.
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