Marvel Fanboy - Pick nothing but Marvel characters will give you 1 extra points, and hour prep on the battlefield within 1000 feet of your start point.
Nothing in Common - Pick only characters who do not fit the descriptions above will give you perfect teamwork, hour prep on the battlefield within 1000 feet of your start point, but cannot do anything within 100 feet of objectives or enemy team, and detail knowledge on the foe.
Rules
10 points to spend on characters. Once a character is picked, they are gone. Henchmen can be picked multiple times.
All Characters with Expanded Universe are allowed there EU feats. DC allowed Pre and New 52 feats.
All characters are in character, and still hold onto their rivalry. They will not work well with enemies on their team, but will not attack said enemies either. They will recognize people from their own universes as well.
No BFR, but can teleport others around the battlefield.
No Mental KO or Mental control of a enemy team. Applies to soul abilities as well.
Time Manipulation is allowed only on the character who has it only. Can not Increase speed past Hypersonic.
Transmutation is allowed, but limited to 1 character use on a enemy team. On your own team, and anyone outside the enemy team is fair game.
Intangibility, Teleporting, and Transmutation dismemberment are not allowed on enemy team, but everyone else is fine.
Gear must remain Street Level.
Summons/Duplicates limited to Navy Seal Team quality. You cannot summon anything or duplicate enough to overwhelm a 6 man Navy Seal Team with ease.
Unsure, then ask. If things get out of hand, rulings will be made.
Mission 4
Both teams have prep as day workers by day. Setting up what they need too if they have prep. However they start in gear at night where they are shown. In this mission you must kidnap a powerful executive, and make your way to the red diamond, which is a attack copter. However its not that easy. The green represents squads of 5 Swat members that are armed as shown below.
Meanwhile they are only part of the problem. The Executive himself is not really normal. He has the same super powers of Luke Cage, and while does not know how to fight, he will not go willingly.
Get the Exec, hold off the other team, and make your way to the chopper.
Not much here. I'm just gonna have the duo map out the area and memorize it, and have Kakashi plant some explosive tags under tables, doors, and so on.
Mission
Kakashi uses his transformation jutsu to disguise himself as a SWAT member, and when he gets close enough, he'll kill the squad he's near. Elektra can also take out any squads she needs to. They're just fodder after all and Elektra can take them out with ease, especially when she has the element of surprise.
Once I encounter your team, I'll use genjutsu to make Sp0ck believe that Daken is Kakashi, then Daken is getting KOed by your own man. Then Kakashi can simply take Sp0ck out through a chidori, or genjutsu the hell out of him.
Or Kakashi can detonate the explosive tags into incap Daken, then Elektra can finish him (once she's done with the rest of the SWAT guys) by chopping his head off while Kakashi finishes Sp0ck.
Also, Sp0ck can't really put down Kakashi because he'll keep using substitution jutsu or simply teleport away.
As for the exec, Kakashi uses genjutsu to make him think that a SWAT member is escorting him to the helicopter. Or Elektra can simply take him out (I can give you feats of her taking out much stronger, much faster, much more durable and much more skilled people)
My first, and most powerful character in my roster. Superior Spidey is essentially just Spider-Man, but simply superior.
He possesses all of the strengths of the original Spider-Man, but is more intelligent, incorporates more technology into his arsenal, and is a much more tactful planner than Spider-Man. Not only this, but he is much more ruthless, making him more optimal in a fight than standard Spidey.
As for my second fighter, allow me to introduce...
Daken:
Daken is Wolverine's long lost son, torn from his mother's womb by the dark figure Romulus. Raised with a warped view on his father's "abandonment" and his mother's murder, Daken was left holding a grudge.
Daken may not be as powerful as Spidey, but he is every bit as dangerous. His skillset is completely different than Spider-Man's, and what he lacks in raw strength and speed, he makes up for in stealth, skill, and ferocity. He will indeed be a valuable asset to Spider-Man for this fight.
Prep:
I plan to be a bit crafty with my prep. Now, due to my Marvel Fanboy perk, they don't have perfect teamwork. However, Spidey and Daken have fought in the past, and thus should have an idea of each other's fighting style. Once Spock explains that he isn't Peter Parker, and holds no grudge against Daken, and persuades Daken that he as well should hold no grudge, then their teamwork should be pretty efficient, especially considering they already know how each other fight.
Once they amicably resolve any prior issues, I plan on having Daken scout the area, and using his pheromones on every squad of SWAT officers he encounters. Daken's pheromones are exceptionally potent. They even caused a woman to trust him to the degree of throwing herself into oncoming traffic.
Gallery
His pheromones have even allowed him to manipulate a greek god.
So, with Daken's prep, I plan to have him recruit the SWAT agents to his cause, and have them scout the area for the opponent, possibly inadvertently activating some of Kakashi's traps along the way.
Strategy:
My strategy is pretty straightforward. Whilst I don't expect the SWAT teams to give you any trouble, they will probably at least distract you for about a minute, considering most of them will be attacking you, and no longer attacking Spidey & Daken.
Once Spidey and Daken enter the room unhindered, Daken will use his pheromones in order to cause the executive to trust him as well, and move him to the attack copter.
In the event of a fight:
Once I encounter your team, I'll use genjutsu to make Sp0ck believe that Daken is Kakashi, then Daken is getting KOed by your own man. Then Kakashi can simply take Sp0ck out through a chidori, or genjutsu the hell out of him.
Normally, this tactic could be plausible; however, the OP explicitly states that all combatants are in character, and to my knowledge, Kakashi has only used Genjutsu once in battle. Literally once. It isn't a go-to method for him.
As for simply using the Chidori for an easy victory, Kakashi doesn't really have any feats to suggest he could easily strike Spider-Man with a single attack. Spidey's vast array of speed feats (from dodging high caliber sniper rounds after they were fired, dodging Electro's lightning bolts, dodging gunfire from dozens of machine guns at once, and dodging a bullet after it was fired, while the barrel of the gun was literally touching his skin), coupled with his Spider Sense will make him far too elusive for Kakashi.
Moreover, whilst Kakashi is busy with Spidey, Daken has more than what it takes to make short work of Elektra. He's easily defeated the likes of Deadpool, who's above Elektra in nearly every category; including reflexes, strength, speed, and skill.
After Elektra is dead, Daken will help Spider-Man secure the victory against Kakashi. Even though Daken is nowhere near fast enough to hit Kakashi through normal means, speed won't be a factor for Daken. Due to his stealth, he is essentially everywhere and nowhere at once. He is "always where his opponent isn't looking." So even if Kakashi is too fast for Daken, he will be stricken because Daken will be in spots that Kakashi cannot see.
So, with Daken's prep, I plan to have him recruit the SWAT agents to his cause, and have them scout the area for the opponent, possibly inadvertently activating some of Kakashi's traps along the way.
This is not possible. Tags only go off when a shinobi wants them to, or when they are set to. Also, I'm pretty sure it's against the rules to interfere with my traps.
Even if both these things are untrue, I highly doubt you want to set off my traps in the prep, because it kills some of your guys.
Normally, this tactic could be plausible; however, the OP explicitly states that all combatants are in character, and to my knowledge, Kakashi has only used Genjutsu once in battle. Literally once. It isn't a go-to method for him.
This may sound somewhat like a cop out, but it's worth saying that the only people he has fought PTS are Zabuza, fodder ninjas during Orochimaru's takeover, and Team 7. He straight up mind raped Sakura while training her, which you can argue he did for the purpose of conditioning her. She easily fell for it as she was unprepared to deal with genjutsu, but the same can be said of your guys.
I think the reason he didn't use it against Zabuza is because Zabuza has genjutsu of his own, and therefore has resistance from the fact that he literally (like all ninja in Naruto) he is specifically trained to resist it. Your duo isn't.
As for simply using the Chidori for an easy victory, Kakashi doesn't really have any feats to suggest he could easily strike Spider-Man with a single attack. Spidey's vast array of speed feats (from dodging high caliber sniper rounds after they were fired, dodging Electro's lightning bolts, dodging gunfire from dozens of machine guns at once, and dodging a bullet after it was fired, while the barrel of the gun was literally touching his skin), coupled with his Spider Sense will make him far too elusive for Kakashi.
You do realize Kakashi can run at super-speeds while using his Chidori, right? Just look at Sasuke when he fought Gaara in the Chunin Exams, he did this (right after learning it from Kakashi), so Kakashi can easily do it better.
Moreover, whilst Kakashi is busy with Spidey, Daken has more than what it takes to make short work of Elektra. He's easily defeated the likes of Deadpool, who's above Elektra in nearly every category; including reflexes, strength, speed, and skill.
Nope.
An assassin known as Cape Crow soloed Taskmaster, Sabertooth, Bullseye, and Scalphunter.
In later issues, she defeats him while he's in an even more powerful armor.
Gallery
In later issues, she also does this:
Gallery
She monologues about how she defeated: Blizzard, Crossbones, Whiplash, Shocker and Boomerang, Tiger Shark, Blackout and Jack-o-Lantern....... one after another
AND
Gallery
She then defeats enhanced, further powered versions of Tiger Shark, Whiplash, and Jack-O-Lantern. TS has fought with Namor, Whiplash has fought with Iron Man, and JoL has fought with Agent Venom, yet Elektra solos ENHANCED versions of these characters.
So I would say Elektra easily outclasses Daken in skill by virtue of her being able to accomplish these wins despite being physically inferior to the whole lot and also much less well equipped.
Elektra has resisted mind control as well (in the scan above), so Daken can't really use his pheromones on her.
In short, she has the skill to hold her own against Daken, and an immunity to the power that he might be able to use to beat her.
The only reason Daken would survive an encounter with her is if he outlasted her with his healing factor, but Kakashi will be done with Spock by then.
After Elektra is dead, Daken will help Spider-Man secure the victory against Kakashi. Even though Daken is nowhere near fast enough to hit Kakashi through normal means, speed won't be a factor for Daken. Due to his stealth, he is essentially everywhere and nowhere at once. He is "always where his opponent isn't looking." So even if Kakashi is too fast for Daken, he will be stricken because Daken will be in spots that Kakashi cannot see.
First of all, Elektra won't be dead, and I've already shown why.
Second, are you REALLY saying that you're strategy for taking down Kakashi is to sneak up on him? Like REALLY? This guy's an elite ninja, highly trained in stealth, he has enhanced senses that can track you (he's known as an excellent tracker ninja) and he also has noticed Zabuza sneaking up on him, who has the power to turn into mist, then rematerialize into a human behind his opponent to gut them. It's even know as the "silent mist" yet this technique didn't work on Kakashi. Bad move, mate. If Daken sneaks up on Kakashi, he's taking a chidori through the skull. This doesn't matter though, since Elektra will be holding off Daken long enough for Kakashi to slay Spock.
Battle
Kakashi uses the transformation jutsu to disguise himself long enough to get into battle and take a few guards out then set the traps off, further killing your SWAT team.
Elektra battles Daken, holding him off.
Kakashi outlasts Spock, killing him via untouchability (substitution, speed, and precog) and finally Chidoris him.
The exec get pummeled by either of my team the same way Elektra pummeled an amped Tiger Shark, if needed a single Shadow Clone could distract him by hopping around him.
This may sound somewhat like a cop out, but it's worth saying that the only people he has fought PTS are Zabuza, fodder ninjas during Orochimaru's takeover, and Team 7. He straight up mind raped Sakura while training her, which you can argue he did for the purpose of conditioning her. She easily fell for it as she was unprepared to deal with genjutsu, but the same can be said of your guys.
I think the reason he didn't use it against Zabuza is because Zabuza has genjutsu of his own, and therefore has resistance from the fact that he literally (like all ninja in Naruto) he is specifically trained to resist it. Your duo isn't
That was a training session though. In an actual battle, Pre-Shippuden Kakashi has never used Genjutsu.
This is not possible. Tags only go off when a shinobi wants them to, or when they are set to. Also, I'm pretty sure it's against the rules to interfere with my traps.
Even if both these things are untrue, I highly doubt you want to set off my traps in the prep, because it kills some of your guys.
If the traps only go off when you want them to, how will you trigger them to activate when either Spidey or Daken walk over them then? Is Kakashi somehow watching them the entire time and triggers it whenever they come close? How will he tell the difference from them walking over it individually and a SWAT member?
Moreover, I am not concerned with the SWAT team dying. They are fodder. Besides, they're not interfering with your traps any more than Spider-Man and Daken are "interfering" with your traps by walking over them.
You do realize Kakashi can run at super-speeds while using his Chidori, right? Just look at Sasuke when he fought Gaara in the Chunin Exams, he did this (right after learning it from Kakashi), so Kakashi can easily do it better.
Spidey can also run at super speeds. He covered 2 miles in five seconds without the use of his web. There's also no evidence Kakashi is faster than Naruto.
An assassin known as Cape Crow soloed Taskmaster, Sabertooth, Bullseye, and Scalphunter.
In later issues, she defeats him while he's in an even more powerful armor.
Deadpool has also soloed Taskmaster....while tied up.
Gallery
Gallery
He also easily beat Crossbones and scared Sabretooth off.
And has a plethora of other feats.
She then defeats enhanced, further powered versions of Tiger Shark, Whiplash, and Jack-O-Lantern. TS has fought with Namor, Whiplash has fought with Iron Man, and JoL has fought with Agent Venom, yet Elektra solos ENHANCED versions of these characters.
It seems like she only beat these people because they were slow, unorganized, and clumsy. She also took advantage of their anatomy. (I.E. severing Whiplash's spine, and overloading the shark's ability to track electrical impulses.) Kind of like how Midnighter was only able to harm Apollo due to smacking his ears.
So I would say Elektra easily outclasses Daken in skill by virtue of her being able to accomplish these wins despite being physically inferior to the whole lot and also much less well equipped.
Which might be plausible, if not for the fact that Daken has fought and killed numerous opponents he was physically inferior to as well.
Gallery
Daken has fought an army of Asgardians, who are much, much stronger than humans.
And, the physical superiority/skill doesn't matter in regards to Daken's skillset. It's the fact that he is, to reiterate, everywhere his opponent isn't looking. Even Wolverine, what with his extremely potent tracking ability, could not keep track of Daken.
So, though Elektra is exceptionally skilled, there is no evidence that she can get past Daken's stealth ability.
Elektra has resisted mind control as well (in the scan above), so Daken can't really use his pheromones on her.
He won't need to.
In short, she has the skill to hold her own against Daken, and an immunity to the power that he might be able to use to beat her.
Except she doesn't have immunity to his stealth.
The only reason Daken would survive an encounter with her is if he outlasted her with his healing factor, but Kakashi will be done with Spock by then.
He won't need to rely on his healing ability considering how advanced his stealth ability is. Even with her skill, she won't be able to hit him because he'll be already gone by the time she throws the punch.
Not only this, but even without his stealth ability, Daken has the skill necessary to contend with Elektra. He's taken on the entire X-Men, and even X-23.
Second, are you REALLY saying that you're strategy for taking down Kakashi is to sneak up on him? Like REALLY?
Yes.
This guy's an elite ninja, highly trained in stealth, he has enhanced senses that can track you (he's known as an excellent tracker ninja) and he also has noticed Zabuza sneaking up on him, who has the power to turn into mist, then rematerialize into a human behind his opponent to gut them.
Inconsequential. Deadpool is an elite assassin, also highly trained in stealth, yet he couldn't get past Daken's ability. Not only this, but Wolverine also has enhanced tracking senses (likely above Kakashi's).
Daken's ability is simply very potent. It is unlike anything Kakashi has gone against before.
If Daken sneaks up on Kakashi, he's taking a chidori through the skull.
There's no evidence that Kakashi will detect Daken. Daken's stealth ability has bypassed elite ninjas, and excellent trackers as well.
This doesn't matter though, since Elektra will be holding off Daken long enough for Kakashi to slay Spock.
Except Elektra will be eviscerated the moment Daken begins to use his stealth.
Conclusion:
Due to Daken's ability, Elektra shouldn't be able to land a hit on him.
Daken will dispatch of Elektra rather quickly.
Spidey vs Kakashi might as well be a back and forth fight, since Kakashi is going to spam substitution, and Spidey is going to dodge most of his attacks via Spider-Sense.
Daken can and will defeat Elektra, and once he does, he can either help Spider-Man take down Kakashi, or take the executive with him to the helicopter.
That was a training session though. In an actual battle, Pre-Shippuden Kakashi has never used Genjutsu.
So? My point of bringing up the training session was to point out that Kakashi is fully capable of MRing an opponent who doesn't have experience in resisting, which the only other opponent he has fought does indeed have. If you can show me either of your characters resisting telepathy/hypnosis/illusions, I'll withdraw this point.
If the traps only go off when you want them to, how will you trigger them to activate when either Spidey or Daken walk over them then? Is Kakashi somehow watching them the entire time and triggers it whenever they come close? How will he tell the difference from them walking over it individually and a SWAT member?
Moreover, I am not concerned with the SWAT team dying. They are fodder. Besides, they're not interfering with your traps any more than Spider-Man and Daken are "interfering" with your traps by walking over them.
Memorizing the area was part of my prep, and in that time I would have easily had Kakashi and Elektra memorize the locations. Why wouldn't Kakashi know if a guy was walking over it if he knew the location.
Spidey can also run at super speeds. He covered 2 miles in five seconds without the use of his web. There's also no evidence Kakashi is faster than Naruto.
My point being, since I can outlast you, a chidori to finish the job is totally plausible.
Also, I'm not denying that Peter did that, but could you post or link to a scan? Because that's a massive high feat even for him.
Deadpool has also soloed Taskmaster....while tied up.
And? Has he soloed a team of Sabretooth, Taskmaster, Bullseye, and Scalphunter? Better yet, has he soloed someone that soloed those guys while he was in an even stronger form?
Exactly. Him beating Taskmaster means nothing. Elektra would murderstomp TM.
He also easily beat Crossbones
Like Elektra did, plus more.
scared Sabretooth off.
Please. That was for comedic effect. Do you think someone that has defeated Wolverine more often than not is really afraid of Deadpool?
It seems like she only beat these people because they were slow, unorganized, and clumsy. She also took advantage of their anatomy. (I.E. severing Whiplash's spine, and overloading the shark's ability to track electrical impulses.) Kind of like how Midnighter was only able to harm Apollo due to smacking his ears.
The main point of me showing that was to emphasize how Elektra can defeat opponents who outclass her by using her skill and tactical ability.
Which might be plausible, if not for the fact that Daken has fought and killed numerous opponents he was physically inferior to as well.
Gallery
Daken has fought an army of Asgardians, who are much, much stronger than humans.
Those asgardians are fodder. Was there anybody in Siege who couldn't wreck an asgardian? If Elektra was put in that situation with a weapon as durable as Daken's bone claws she would have cleaned house.
Plus, I doubt any of them are as strong as Tiger Shark.
He won't need to rely on his healing ability considering how advanced his stealth ability is. Even with her skill, she won't be able to hit him because he'll be already gone by the time she throws the punch.
Not only this, but even without his stealth ability, Daken has the skill necessary to contend with Elektra. He's taken on the entire X-Men, and even X-23.
Dude, you're acting like Daken can teleport or that he can disappear completely. He's just fast, that's it, and let's not start comparing his speed to Elektra's.
Gallery
Gallery
She casually blocks each bullets from a machine gun,
she kills people before they even see her,
she disappears from sight like Daken can.
Hell, she's done this casually even while drugged.
And Daken eluding Wolverine's senses is inferior compared to this:
She can elude Daredevil.
Daken's speed and stealth is not better than her's by any stretch.
Inconsequential. Deadpool is an elite assassin, also highly trained in stealth, yet he couldn't get past Daken's ability. Not only this, but Wolverine also has enhanced tracking senses (likely above Kakashi's).
Daken's ability is simply very potent. It is unlike anything Kakashi has gone against before.
Zabuza can literally disappear and reappear behind his opponent as silent as the mist, yet Kakashi laughs at this. Why is Daken so special again?
You continue to act like Daken has some shadow meld/teleportation power when all he has is decent stealth, but it's inferior to Elektra's and Kakashi can easily see through it.
There's no evidence that Kakashi will detect Daken. Daken's stealth ability has bypassed elite ninjas, and excellent trackers as well.
Neat, but there's still nothing to put him above Kakashi, who detected someone sneakier than Daken.
Except Elektra will be eviscerated the moment Daken begins to use his stealth.
Elektra also has stealth, and as I've shown, it's better than Daken's.
Conclusion
Elektra can out stealth Daken, is faster, and more skilled. She'll hold him off until Kakashi ends Spock
Kakashi can detect Daken, and outlast Spock.
Kakashi can also just teleport out of the fight and teleport the exec to the helicopter, or have a shadow clone do this.
So? My point of bringing up the training session was to point out that Kakashi is fully capable of MRing an opponent who doesn't have experience in resisting, which the only other opponent he has fought does indeed have. If you can show me either of your characters resisting telepathy/hypnosis/illusions, I'll withdraw this point.
My point wasn't that he isn't capable. It was that it's highly unlikely he'll use such a tactic at the start of the battle.
However, if you want a scan of Daken resisting telepathy, then here.
Memorizing the area was part of my prep, and in that time I would have easily had Kakashi and Elektra memorize the locations. Why wouldn't Kakashi know if a guy was walking over it if he knew the location.
Memorizing the area is inconsequential. My question is, how do you know that Daken and Spider-Man specifically are walking over the traps if you cannot see them?
My point being, since I can outlast you, a chidori to finish the job is totally plausible.
Also, I'm not denying that Peter did that, but could you post or link to a scan? Because that's a massive high feat even for him.
Yeah, I don't really see Kakashi outlasting Sp0ck given the methods you've provided. Not only does Kakashi never spam substitution, he rarely uses it at all.
His entire fight with another highly trained Ninja, he didn't use it once. In fact, he even allowed himself to be hit by Zabuza. There's no evidence to suggest he would repeatedly use substitutions against Octavius.
Loading Video...
Besides, he only uses his Sharingan on opponents he deems dangerous. He's likely not even going to take Spidey seriously at first (given his costume) until it is too late.
Oh, and if you want proof of him running 2 miles in 5 seconds...
And? Has he soloed a team of Sabretooth, Taskmaster, Bullseye, and Scalphunter? Better yet, has he soloed someone that soloed those guys while he was in an even stronger form?
Exactly. Him beating Taskmaster means nothing. Elektra would murderstomp TM.
Like she murderstomped Bullseye?
Not only was Elektra killed by Bullseye, but Bullseye has beaten Daredevil in every one of their encounters, who has repeatedly demonstrated to be on par, if not superior to Elektra.
Not only that, but Bullseye was also taking on both Elektra and Daredevil at once.
Gallery
Bullseye was even going to kill Elektra again if Daredevil didn't intervene.
Yet Bullseye can't tag Daken at point blank range; even with the element of surprise.
Not to mention Daken doesn't even grab his hand until after it's already halfway toward his neck. Elektra is by no means faster than Daken.
Even Daken has casually dodged machine gun fire, so that's nothing to showcase.
Dude, you're acting like Daken can teleport or that he can disappear completely. He's just fast, that's it, and let's not start comparing his speed to Elektra's.
Except no. Daken's stealth ability doesn't involve speed at all. He even explicitly stated this in a feat I showed you earlier.
Gallery
Daken (to Deadpool): "I have no Superpowers." "Or, at least none like you've described. As loathsome as it is to admit, I'm no faster than you are." "And I can't disappear."
Daken: "I'm simply..." "Always..." "Where my enemy..." "...isn't looking."
she disappears from sight like Daken can.
Except that's nothing like Daken's ability. That's just sheer speed.
She can elude Daredevil.
She simply bypassed his ability to detect recording devices. I don't see how that's equivalent to eluding the smelling ability of a person who can track just about any creature.
Zabuza can literally disappear and reappear behind his opponent as silent as the mist, yet Kakashi laughs at this. Why is Daken so special again?
And Kakashi's entire body was bloody and injured in the aftermath of that fight. Meaning if Daken can do even half as much damage as Zabuza did (and Daken will definitely do more than just a half), Sp0ck can finish him off.
You continue to act like Daken has some shadow meld/teleportation power when all he has is decent stealth, but it's inferior to Elektra's and Kakashi can easily see through it.
Inferior to Elektra's? I hope you have some evidence to back this up?
Moreover, Kakashi cannot easily see through it. Zabuza's stealth is nothing like Daken's. Zabuza literally turns into fog. His source of stealth comes from obscuring your vision and making it so that you can't see. Anyone could sneak up on you if you can't even see two feet in front of you.
Daken's stealth is still effective even whilst you're maintaining eye contact with him. He doesn't need to obscure your vision. Whether you have enhanced reflexes, are in a perfectly lit room, and can see him clearly, his stealth still works.
I'm not acting as though Daken has any teleportation ability. I am merely basing this off of what was clearly seen against Wolverine and Deadpool. Even Deadpool mistook it for teleportation, and Deadpool himself knows how to teleport.
Neat, but there's still nothing to put him above Kakashi, who detected someone sneakier than Daken.
Sneakier based on what? The fact that he needs to obscure your vision for his stealth to be effective, and the fact that even pre-chunin exam Sasuke could occasionally keep track of him?
Elektra also has stealth, and as I've shown, it's better than Daken's.
I haven't seen you show this anywhere.
Conclusion:
Regardless of your prior assertions, Daken's stealth is indeed superior to Zabuza's.
His stealth will work on Elektra, and there is no evidence to suggest it wouldn't.
His stealth doesn't even take speed into consideration, so enhanced reflexes won't help. (Deadpool is enough proof of that)
Daken can resist telepathy, and thus should be able to resist Genjutsu.
Kakashi (in character anyway) wouldn't even use Genjutsu at the start of a battle.
My point wasn't that he isn't capable. It was that it's highly unlikely he'll use such a tactic at the start of the battle.
However, if you want a scan of Daken resisting telepathy, then here.
Yes he would, against people that aren't trained against it.
And that scan is irrelevant since my plan was to use it on Spock to KO Daken, and that will indeed work.
Memorizing the area is inconsequential. My question is, how do you know that Daken and Spider-Man specifically are walking over the traps if you cannot see them?
My guys are going to be out in the open. We approach you then detonate them. It's still doesn't matter seeing as how I can easily do this without the tags.
Yeah, I don't really see Kakashi outlasting Sp0ck given the methods you've provided. Not only does Kakashi never spam substitution, he rarely uses it at all.
False again.
He used it against ninja who ambushed Team 7 on their way to the Land of Waves.
He used it while fighting Sound/Sand Ninja with Might Guy during Orochimaru's invasion.
He used it against Team 7 constantly while training them.
And he has indeed used it on Zabuza....
Loading Video...
11:56.
Here he uses substitution against Zabuza.
Kakashi has used substitution on every single one of his PTS fights.
This point is over. Done and closed. That is the end of this.
Like she murderstomped Bullseye?
You lose points for using that scan, and I have to admit I'm rather offended at your ignorance here.
That scan is PRE DEATH ELEKTRA. It is common knowledge among people who know the character that she got significantly better after her death.
And about that scan from Bendis' run, she also got better after that:
Here Bullseye literally admits that Elektra is superior to him.
And I'm also offended that you're trying to debunk her defeating Cape Crow (who again, soloed TM, Bullseye, Sabretooth, and Scalphunter) by showing a now irrelevant scan from the 80s that has since been proven to no longer be applicable.
Hell, the way that Bullseye killed Elektra can no longer happen.
She enhanced her sais with a bio-seal that electrocutes anybody that tries to pick them up.
So, again, you're point here has been torn to pieces.
Bullseye has beaten Daredevil in every one of their encounters, who has repeatedly demonstrated to be on par, if not superior to Elektra.
That is irrelevant. Current Elektra is superior to Daredevil, and this is coming from a guy who considers Daredevil his favorite superhero. Her feats I've shown from the Haden Blackman run are superior to anything Matt has done.
Yet Bullseye can't tag Daken at point blank range; even with the element of surprise.
Not to mention Daken doesn't even grab his hand until after it's already halfway toward his neck. Elektra is by no means faster than Daken.
Are you debating me or yourself? You literally just proved why Daken isn't fast enough for Elektra because you got so caught up in debating for Bullseye. Showing that Bullseye is faster than Daken then saying "oh look at how fast Daken is" What? Bad move, mate.
Except no. Daken's stealth ability doesn't involve speed at all. He even explicitly stated this in a feat I showed you earlier.
Gallery
Daken (to Deadpool): "I have no Superpowers." "Or, at least none like you've described. As loathsome as it is to admit, I'm no faster than you are." "And I can't disappear."
Daken: "I'm simply..." "Always..." "Where my enemy..." "...isn't looking."
*facepalm* I cannot believe you're still defending this, especially with this much counter-intuitiveness.
First of all, Daken literally says "something I learned from my master" Are you saying that he learned magical disappearing from a ninja martial arts instructor. Try again.
Second, you QUITE LITERALLY quoted something that proves my point. "I'm no faster than you are" "And I can't disappear" Literally Daken is stating that the exact thing you claim he has is something that he is proven in this exact scan to not have at all. What the hell dude?
Third, if Daken actually had the ability, he would have used it more than once, and I'm 100% convinced that you don't have a single damn scan other than this one where he does anything like this, because if you did, you would have brought it out by now.
So again, you have no ammo left in this point and it's time to drop it.
Except that's nothing like Daken's ability. That's just sheer speed.
Daken doesn't have an ability like that, as I've proven.
She simply bypassed his ability to detect recording devices. I don't see how that's equivalent to eluding the smelling ability of a person who can track just about any creature.
Now you're just making stuff up.
He says "you know how to get past my radar?" and she says "of course I do".
Daredevil's senses are superior to Wolverine's, yet Elektra can sneak past his radar.
Her stealth is better than Daken's.
And Kakashi's entire body was bloody and injured in the aftermath of that fight. Meaning if Daken can do even half as much damage as Zabuza did (and Daken will definitely do more than just a half), Sp0ck can finish him off.
Oh brother.
Loading Video...
Kakashi defeated Zabuza, lad.
And whether or not Kakashi can defeat Zabuza is honestly irrelevant, since Zabuza would solo your duo.
Inferior to Elektra's? I hope you have some evidence to back this up?
I just did.
Moreover, Kakashi cannot easily see through it. Zabuza's stealth is nothing like Daken's. Zabuza literally turns into fog. His source of stealth comes from obscuring your vision and making it so that you can't see. Anyone could sneak up on you if you can't even see two feet in front of you.
WHY ARE YOU DEBATING AGAINST YOURSELF?!
What you said proves even further that Zabuza's stealth is superior to Daken's.
I honestly wonder if you want to lose with how many of your statements literally put you against your other statements.
Daken's stealth is still effective even whilst you're maintaining eye contact with him. He doesn't need to obscure your vision. Whether you have enhanced reflexes, are in a perfectly lit room, and can see him clearly, his stealth still works.
I already debunked this point above. NEXT
I'm not acting as though Daken has any teleportation ability. I am merely basing this off of what was clearly seen against Wolverine and Deadpool. Even Deadpool mistook it for teleportation, and Deadpool himself knows how to teleport.
Yes you are. It's an ability he doesn't have (I've proved this already) and that he's shown once. It was clearly just a dramatization of his stealth ability. He would have used it on Bullseye if he had it, mate.
Sneakier based on what? The fact that he needs to obscure your vision for his stealth to be effective, and the fact that even pre-chunin exam Sasuke could occasionally keep track of him?
Being able to obscure vision and slit your enemies throat after literally reappearing behind them as a mist is far stealthier than anything Daken has done.
I haven't seen you show this anywhere.
Negating Matt's radar sense through stealth is better than blitzing Deadpool. Period.
Regardless of your prior assertions, Daken's stealth is indeed superior to Zabuza's.
Wrong, and already proven wrong. Daken has never done anything impressive, if Deadpool getting blitzed is the best you can do.
His stealth will work on Elektra, and there is no evidence to suggest it wouldn't.
She's faster.
Her stealth is better.
She'll be sneaking also, and again her stealth is better than his and she has eluded Daredevil's senses, which are better than Daken's.
So yeah you're stealth won't do jack to her.
His stealth doesn't even take speed into consideration, so enhanced reflexes won't help. (Deadpool is enough proof of that)
Your claim that Daken has this power has been shot to pieces plenty of times through both this post and my other posts.
Daken can resist telepathy, and thus should be able to resist Genjutsu.
I'm not even going to use it against him, mate. I'm using it against Spock, and that's if I need to (I'm, most likely just going to teleport the exec to the copter after using substitution)
Kakashi (in character anyway) wouldn't even use Genjutsu at the start of a battle.
Yes, yes he would.
Even if he wouldn't, a simple substitution for a tele-escape and a distraction will give the few seconds needed to get the exec to the copter.
Nor would he spam substitution.
I've shot this one apart before.
He's literally used it against all his opponents PTS.
Kakashi isn't taking Spidey out anytime soon.
He doesn't need to.
Daken's ability should also work on Kakashi.
It definitely isn't working on Kakashi based on the fight I provided against Zabuza.
The Battle
Elektra hold off Daken.
Kakashi toys with Spock a bit, then uses substitution to distract Spock while he teleports to the exec then teleports him to the copter.
I win with ease.
Conclusion
My opponent has consistently shown that he doesn't understand my characters and has made ridiculous claims about Daken, even making up a power that he has.
He has failed to shown how either of his character could defeat either of mine.
He has failed to give a refutation on how to counter my substitution/teleportation tactic that will easily give me the win.
@solarpowered If you like, make a closing post, but I'm just about ready for voting.
Yes he would, against people that aren't trained against it.
You've made that claim three times, and have provided 0 scans of him actually doing it.
False again.
He used it against ninja who ambushed Team 7 on their way to the Land of Waves.
He used it while fighting Sound/Sand Ninja with Might Guy during Orochimaru's invasion.
He used it against Team 7 constantly while training them.
And he has indeed used it on Zabuza....
Using substitution a maximum of two times (at most) in a fight is not equivalent to "spamming," it, as you previously attempted to assert.
Moreover, any attempted counter-attack on Spider-Man by Kakashi would be negated by his Spider-sense anyway.
11:56.
Here he uses substitution against Zabuza.
Kakashi has used substitution on every single one of his PTS fights.
This point is over. Done and closed. That is the end of this.
Hm, so you seem to ignore how in the exact same scene, it was revealed that Kakashi needed to copy Zabuza's water clone jutsu to pull off that substitution? I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but Spider-Man is not a ninja. He does not use jutsu. Kakashi has no techniques to copy for this fight.
You lose points for using that scan, and I have to admit I'm rather offended at your ignorance here.
That scan is PRE DEATH ELEKTRA. It is common knowledge among people who know the character that she got significantly better after her death.
And about that scan from Bendis' run, she also got better after that:
Got "better," or merely improved her arsenal? Because it seems to me that she's not only struggling against Bullseye in the scan you posted, but easily shattering her sais and has the upper hand against her the entire time.
There's also no proof that she got better after Bullseye beat her for a second time.
Here Bullseye literally admits that Elektra is superior to him.
And I'm also offended that you're trying to debunk her defeating Cape Crow (who again, soloed TM, Bullseye, Sabretooth, and Scalphunter) by showing a now irrelevant scan from the 80s that has since been proven to no longer be applicable.
Hell, the way that Bullseye killed Elektra can no longer happen.
Admitting she's superior to him, whilst he's beating her. Interesting...
Except I didn't just use the old scan. I also provided a post-death Elektra scan of her also being beaten by Bullseye.
She enhanced her sais with a bio-seal that electrocutes anybody that tries to pick them up.
So, again, you're point here has been torn to pieces.
What exactly is your point here? That she can't be beaten the same way twice? Neither can Doomsday, but he is defeated every time he appears in any comic issue.
You're also neglecting the fact that Bullseye has consistently beaten Elektra in nearly every one of their encounters, despite his baseless statement of her being better than him.
Are you debating me or yourself? You literally just proved why Daken isn't fast enough for Elektra because you got so caught up in debating for Bullseye. Showing that Bullseye is faster than Daken then saying "oh look at how fast Daken is" What? Bad move, mate.
Debating against myself? What are you talking about? I proved that Daken isn't fast enough for Elektra.....by proving that he's faster than Bullseye? That makes sense to you? A man who's faster than the man who's beaten Elektra in every encounter is somehow slower than Elektra? Well, as long as the logic is sound to you, I guess.
*facepalm* I cannot believe you're still defending this, especially with this much counter-intuitiveness.
First of all, Daken literally says "something I learned from my master" Are you saying that he learned magical disappearing from a ninja martial arts instructor. Try again.
I'm amazed at how firmly you're sticking to this strawman argument, when I explicitly stated the contrary. This technique is not magical. How does him learning a technique from his master convert to it being "magical?" You're just spouting groundless drivel at this point.
Second, you QUITE LITERALLY quoted something that proves my point. "I'm no faster than you are" "And I can't disappear" Literally Daken is stating that the exact thing you claim he has is something that he is proven in this exact scan to not have at all. What the hell dude?
"You claim he has is proven in this exact scan to not have at all"
I'm not acting as though Daken has any teleportation ability.
^ One of my very own quotes.
So....eh? How many times do I have to say "Daken can't teleport" before you stop claiming I said he can? I've never said Daken can teleport, and his ability is not teleportation.
Third, if Daken actually had the ability, he would have used it more than once, and I'm 100% convinced that you don't have a single damn scan other than this one where he does anything like this, because if you did, you would have brought it out by now.
Gallery
Yet another instance of someone staring directly at Daken, but he eludes their sight.
Even uses it on Spider-Man, who has reaction time, speed, strength, skill, virtually every stat of his is beyond anything Elektra can dream of. (I guess you're going to provide reasons as to why Elektra would beat Spider-Man too, huh?)
"Everywhere. He's everywhere and nowhere at once. Why can't I tag this slimy Wolverine wannabe?"
And before you try to bring up that tired "debating against yourself" claim again, realize two things.
In this battle, Daken is fighting an opponent unlike Spider-Man, that is far inferior to Spider-Man, and doesn't have anything remotely similar to his Spider-Sense.
This is not a discredit to Spider-Man in the slightest. He does in fact defeat Daken, and you know how he does it?
By abandoning all his other 5 senses and relying solely on his Spider-Sense.
He even was able to detect someone behind him with his eyes closed. Now, enlighten me, how will a scenario with Kakashi using Genjutsu be any different than Spidey's fight with Daken?
Daken doesn't have an ability like that, as I've proven.
As I've proven, he does.
Now you're just making stuff up.
He says "you know how to get past my radar?" and she says "of course I do".
Daredevil's senses are superior to Wolverine's, yet Elektra can sneak past his radar.
You're acting as though she managed to actually sneak up on him or something. All she did was make it so that he couldn't detect a single recording device as she recorded his conversation. That is it. That is literally all she did.
Her stealth is better than Daken's.
No, it isn't. That's like claiming I'm a master of stealth because I manage to sneak a bit of metal past TSA.
Kakashi defeated Zabuza, lad.
By copying every single one of his Jutsus? Sure, I guess you could say that. Except, there is nothing that Daken or Spidey have for Kakashi to copy.
And whether or not Kakashi can defeat Zabuza is honestly irrelevant, since Zabuza would solo your duo.
In an environment full of water? Perhaps. On solid ground? Not a snowball's chance in hell.
I just did.
Except no, you didn't. You proved that she can get a recording device past Daredevil's senses. Now I guess you're going to claim that Daredevil's senses are superior to Spider-Man's too, huh?
WHY ARE YOU DEBATING AGAINST YOURSELF?!
What you said proves even further that Zabuza's stealth is superior to Daken's.
I'm a bit worried about how much of my post you've actually been able to correctly interpret.
Here, imagine that a man walks into your room, shuts off your light so that the both of you are in pitch black darkness, and then sneaks up on you.
Now, imagine that a man walks into your perfectly lit room, leaves your light on, you stare at him for the entirety of the time that he walked in, and remain staring clearly at him, and he still somehow manages to completely vanish from your sight. Not even due to teleportation, but sheer stealth.
Now, who has the better stealth? Okay then.
I already debunked this point above. NEXT
Yeah, no. You keep claiming that. You also keep claiming that I'm proving your points for you, but have either provided silly, misinterpreted reasons as to why, or failed to elaborate at all.
Yes you are. It's an ability he doesn't have (I've proved this already) and that he's shown once. It was clearly just a dramatization of his stealth ability. He would have used it on Bullseye if he had it, mate.
An ability that he doesn't have, yet he's used it against several opponents......K.
He's never had a serious fight against Bullseye either.
Negating Matt's radar sense through stealth is better than blitzing Deadpool. Period.
There was context to that scan. I'll let you read over it and figure it out. (Even though I've already listed as to why your claim was false, twice)
Being able to obscure vision and slit your enemies throat after literally reappearing behind them as a mist is far stealthier than anything Daken has done.
Obscuring someone's vision isn't stealth. It is literally just that. Obscuring their vision. I could throw dirt in someone's eyes, and proceed to walk behind them whilst their vision is completely wrecked. That doesn't make me a master of stealth...at all. That just means I ruined their eyesight.
She's faster.
Wrong. And even if she was, it wouldn't make a difference.
Spider-Man was also faster than Daken, and is far, far faster than Elektra.
2. Her stealth is better.
Wrong again, and I've already stated why.
3. She'll be sneaking also, and again her stealth is better than his and she has eluded Daredevil's senses, which are better than Daken's.
Another instance of you not being able to understand context.
And when has Elektra ever employed stealth whilst fighting a similarly skilled opponent?
4. So yeah you're stealth won't do jack to her.
Except it will.
Which brings me to another point of yours I forgot to address earlier.
Elektra has resisted mind control as well (in the scan above), so Daken can't really use his pheromones on her.
Daken's phereomones are physical, not psionic. Mind control resistance is useless.
Gallery
Deadpool has resisted even Emma Frost's telepathy, yet what do you know? It didn't help at all against Daken.
Your claim that Daken has this power has been shot to pieces plenty of times through both this post and my other posts.
Shot to pieces by fallacious assertions and baseless statements?
I'm not even going to use it against him, mate. I'm using it against Spock, and that's if I need to (I'm, most likely just going to teleport the exec to the copter after using substitution)
If you do decide to use it against Sp0ck, he can just kick Kakashi's ass with his Spider-Sense.
And, teleporting the exec to the copter isn't going to work at all. Have you forgotten already that he has Luke Cage's Speed, Strength, and Durability?
He could snap Kakashi like a twig if Kakashi gets close.
Yes, yes he would.
Even if he wouldn't, a simple substitution for a tele-escape and a distraction will give the few seconds needed to get the exec to the copter.
Except he hasn't before....ever. (Pre-Shippuden, at least)
Like I said, the exec isn't going to just let you grab him.
Besides, Kakashi can't teleport anyway.
I've shot this one apart before.
He's literally used it against all his opponents PTS.
Using an ability twice for an entire thirty minute fight, is not spam.
He doesn't need to.
He does if he's going to try to take that exec without being manhandled.
It definitely isn't working on Kakashi based on the fight I provided against Zabuza.
Zabuza merely turns into mist.
Daken literally messes with your brain and distorts your depth perception. Unless Kakashi has anything to suggest he can resist assaults on his brain, he is susceptible to it.
Oh, and before you attempt to say "Kakashi is disguised as a SWAT member, so the exec will trust him."
There is no conceivable way that the exec will believe a SWAT member can clone himself, move faster than the average human eye can see, and teleport him to safety. He's going to know something is up, and won't leave willingly with SWAT disguised Kakashi until he comes up with an excuse and explains why he can do what he can do.
Conclusion:
As I have proven, Daken's stealth will work on both of your combatants.
He will eviscerate Elektra.
Whilst the confused exec is questioning why a SWAT agent can clone himself and move so fast, Spider-Man will engage Kakashi.
If Kakashi tries to disregard his questions and grab him anyway, the exec will likely attack Kakashi.
After Daken kills Elektra, he will help Spidey kill or KO Kakashi.
Daken uses his pheromones to calm the exec and make him trust him.
Spidey and Daken secure the exec to the escape copter.
Using substitution a maximum of two times (at most) in a fight is not equivalent to "spamming," it, as you previously attempted to assert.
Moreover, any attempted counter-attack on Spider-Man by Kakashi would be negated by his Spider-sense anyway.
If it sounded like I was saying he'll spam it, that isn't what I intended. He really only needs to do it once or twice in this fight.
Spider sense or not, it doesn't matter because as I said, I don't need to beat Spock to win this.
Hm, so you seem to ignore how in the exact same scene, it was revealed that Kakashi needed to copy Zabuza's water clone jutsu to pull off that substitution? I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but Spider-Man is not a ninja. He does not use jutsu. Kakashi has no techniques to copy for this fight.
You seem to ignore the fact that Kakashi remembers all the jutsus that he has ever copied, hence why he know over 1000. Therefore he can use it in this fight since he's copied and used it PTS.
And about him only using it on opponents he deems dangerous:
Loading Video...
He uses it against Pre-Chunin Exams Naruto and Sasuke, who posed no threat to him even slightly.
Got "better," or merely improved her arsenal? Because it seems to me that she's not only struggling against Bullseye in the scan you posted, but easily shattering her sais and has the upper hand against her the entire time.
Yes, she got physically better and upped her game.
And oh boy....
READ THE SCAN. He says that the Hand enhanced him to make him stronger. His whole point of saying that she is superior to him is to come back around and say "oh but now I'm better because the Hand enhanced me". Elektra at base prime > Bullseye at base prime. Period. Canonically stated in that scan.
There's also no proof that she got better after Bullseye beat her for a second time.
The "proof" is the fact that her feats after Bendis' run are simply superior. I don't need to supply any more proof of this than I already have. The scans I've shown throughout this debate prove that.
Admitting she's superior to him, whilst he's beating her. Interesting...
I just covered this one. Your point here is null and void.
Except I didn't just use the old scan. I also provided a post-death Elektra scan of her also being beaten by Bullseye.
And I provided a scan after that of Bullseye saying that she is superior.
Also, you literally aren't going to accomplish anything by saying Bullseye can beat Elektra. What is your point? You posted a scan of Daken being slightly faster than Bullseye.
It's pointless because Bullseye isn't faster than Elektra. She (as I've shown) has literally blocked every bullet from a hail of machine gun fire and disappeared from sight.
What exactly is your point here? That she can't be beaten the same way twice? Neither can Doomsday, but he is defeated every time he appears in any comic issue.
Comparing Doomsday and Elektra, a character who has about as little to do with Doomsday as possible. Yeah, no. stop.
Debating against myself? What are you talking about? I proved that Daken isn't fast enough for Elektra.....by proving that he's faster than Bullseye? That makes sense to you? A man who's faster than the man who's beaten Elektra in every encounter is somehow slower than Elektra? Well, as long as the logic is sound to you, I guess.
Okay I might have tripped over my words there a bit, but still, a character can be faster than another and still lose to them.
I'm amazed at how firmly you're sticking to this strawman argument, when I explicitly stated the contrary. This technique is not magical. How does him learning a technique from his master convert to it being "magical?" You're just spouting groundless drivel at this point.
I used magical as a buzzword. What I'm saying is a guy doesn't just get some training to literally appear where someone isn't looking. It's just speed and stealth.
Even uses it on Spider-Man, who has reaction time, speed, strength, skill, virtually every stat of his is beyond anything Elektra can dream of. (I guess you're going to provide reasons as to why Elektra would beat Spider-Man too, huh?)
No, I don't think that Elektra can beat Spider-Man.
And before you try to bring up that tired "debating against yourself" claim again, realize two things.
In this battle, Daken is fighting an opponent unlike Spider-Man, that is far inferior to Spider-Man, and doesn't have anything remotely similar to his Spider-Sense.
This is not a discredit to Spider-Man in the slightest. He does in fact defeat Daken, and you know how he does it?
By abandoning all his other 5 senses and relying solely on his Spider-Sense.
You know, I love how you bring up this, because I have a perfect counter to it.
You know that guy Cape Crow I've shown who soloed all those guys? He's a precog:
At the beginning of the fight, he was beating her solely by being able to predict her moves before she made them.
Want to know how she got around that?
She completely turned her brain off and blanked out so nothing was left but an assassin's instinct, similar to what Pete did to Daken.
Before you say that it's not the same, shutting your brain down would mean you aren't relying off senses, just natural intuition, and she defeated him with that.
I would say that telepathic precognition would allow Cape Crow to defeat Daken (and he defeated Sabretooth despite the healing factor, but that's irrelevant)
So if you want to use whatever the hell that ability is against Elektra, she can do this.
He even was able to detect someone behind him with his eyes closed. Now, enlighten me, how will a scenario with Kakashi using Genjutsu be any different than Spidey's fight with Daken?
Spock hasn't shown the ability to do that, only Pete, so bringing that up here is useless.
You're acting as though she managed to actually sneak up on him or something. All she did was make it so that he couldn't detect a single recording device as she recorded his conversation. That is it. That is literally all she did.
I already quoted him saying she can elude his radar sense. Not going to address any denies to something I've proven.
No, it isn't. That's like claiming I'm a master of stealth because I manage to sneak a bit of metal past TSA.
Not even close. Comparing a security system to Matt's radar. WHAT? No, dude. And she is a master of stealth. There isn't a question about that.
By copying every single one of his Jutsus? Sure, I guess you could say that. Except, there is nothing that Daken or Spidey have for Kakashi to copy.
But he has the abilities he copied in that fight, he didn't have them prior to it, but has them here so he should be able to use them fine. What don't you get about that?
In an environment full of water? Perhaps. On solid ground? Not a snowball's chance in hell.
But he beat Zabuza while in an environment with lots of water.
Except no, you didn't. You proved that she can get a recording device past Daredevil's senses. Now I guess you're going to claim that Daredevil's senses are superior to Spider-Man's too, huh?
Minus Spider Sense they definitely are. With Spider Sense it's a different sort of thing. I've already debunked the Elektra vs Radar thing.
Here, imagine that a man walks into your room, shuts off your light so that the both of you are in pitch black darkness, and then sneaks up on you.
Now, imagine that a man walks into your perfectly lit room, leaves your light on, you stare at him for the entirety of the time that he walked in, and remain staring clearly at him, and he still somehow manages to completely vanish from your sight. Not even due to teleportation, but sheer stealth.
Nice analogy.
Imagine the light that the first man shut off is impossible to turn back on unless you have a special ability to turn it back on. And also imagine he can do it without even having access to light, he can just cause darkness to surround you without even being in the room. That's Zabuza.
An ability that he doesn't have, yet he's used it against several opponents......K.
He's never had a serious fight against Bullseye either.
You yourself have stated that he does it on stealth alone, not even an ability.
Obscuring someone's vision isn't stealth. It is literally just that. Obscuring their vision. I could throw dirt in someone's eyes, and proceed to walk behind them whilst their vision is completely wrecked. That doesn't make me a master of stealth...at all. That just means I ruined their eyesight.
As I said above, he does it through means that only he can do. He wrecks your vision. He doesn't take advantage of a passing mist, he is the passing mist.
Another instance of you not being able to understand context.
And when has Elektra ever employed stealth whilst fighting a similarly skilled opponent?
Actually, damn, something I forgot to bring up is this: telepathy
Gallery
She telepathically makes a SHIELD agent believe he killed her, and she can also communicate telepathically.
Daken's stealth thing is useless when she can track him psionically, and possibly trick him.
Daken's phereomones are physical, not psionic. Mind control resistance is useless.
Gallery
Deadpool has resisted even Emma Frost's telepathy, yet what do you know? It didn't help at all against Daken.
Elektra in the scan was resisting hypnosis, not telepathy. I'll post it again. Read it.
It's hypnosis that makes you believe you're in a lover's embrace.
His pheromones won't do much.
Also, when did Daken successfully control Deadpool? He didn't in the scans you've shown.
And, teleporting the exec to the copter isn't going to work at all. Have you forgotten already that he has Luke Cage's Speed, Strength, and Durability?
He could snap Kakashi like a twig if Kakashi gets close.
Kakashi is way too fast for the exec to do anything, and you seem to have forgotten that Kakashi can use genjutsu to appear as if he isn't even there.
Except he hasn't before....ever. (Pre-Shippuden, at least)
Like I said, the exec isn't going to just let you grab him.
Besides, Kakashi can't teleport anyway.
I can't beleive you went to that argument.
Kakashi, throughout the entirety of PTS disappears, reappears, and materializes out of nowhere.
Remember him teleporting to the training area after being late? Several times?
Remember him and Sasuke teleporting into the Chunin Exams area after Sasuke learns the chidori?
And other times.
Using an ability twice for an entire thirty minute fight, is not spam.
He doesn't need to spam it.
Zabuza merely turns into mist.
Daken literally messes with your brain and distorts your depth perception. Unless Kakashi has anything to suggest he can resist assaults on his brain, he is susceptible to it.
He can indeed resist it, as he is highly trained to resist genjutsu, and he also briefly put up resistance to Itachi's genjutsu, which is far beyond your capabilities.
AND WAIT A MINUTE, IF DAKEN'S ABILITY IS PSYCHIC, THEN HOW THE HELL WILL IT WORK ON ELEKTRA WHO HAS RESISTED PSIONIC ATTACK!? THE STATEMENT YOU JUST MADE PROVES THAT IT'S USELESS AGAINST ELEKTRA!
As I have proven, Daken's stealth will work on both of your combatants.
Not on Kakashi who has resisted genjutsu and has a Sharingan, not on Elektra who has resisted hypnosis and has telepathy that can track you and can turn her brain off and make it useless.
He will eviscerate Elektra.
No he won't, it'll be a long fight that won't even need to continue once Kakashi finishes the mission.
Whilst the confused exec is questioning why a SWAT agent can clone himself and move so fast, Spider-Man will engage Kakashi.
Nope, Kakashi puts him to sleep with genjutsu while in the helicopter and the mission ends.
Loading Video...
If Kakashi tries to disregard his questions and grab him anyway, the exec will likely attack Kakashi.
It won't matter since Kakashi can put him out and the exec is too slow.
After Daken kills Elektra, he will help Spidey kill or KO Kakashi.
Kakashi will be gone by then.
Daken uses his pheromones to calm the exec and make him trust him.
When is he going to do this? Before Kakashi teleports him away? He can't do it after. If need be, Kakashi can buy time by teleporting around the building while working his genjutsu.
Spidey and Daken secure the exec to the escape copter.
They'll be too late.
Okay, this is my last post. @sirfizzwhizz I guess after my opponent makes his final post it's done.
AND WAIT A MINUTE, IF DAKEN'S ABILITY IS PSYCHIC, THEN HOW THE HELL WILL IT WORK ON ELEKTRA WHO HAS RESISTED PSIONIC ATTACK!? THE STATEMENT YOU JUST MADE PROVES THAT IT'S USELESS AGAINST ELEKTRA!
I stated specifically that it wasn't psychic. It's physical. It manipulates the chemicals in your brain that process Pheromones, basically. It doesn't cast an illusion on you like Professor Xavier or Emma Frost would.
As much as I'd like to counter that closing post, I feel like this would only keep dragging on.
It was even shown Elektras stealth > Dakens, I have no idea where a security device came from, somebody must not know about Daredevils senses
Using Pre-Death Elektra scans hurt the argument even more.
Personally I would've had Kakashi solo. Shadow Clones during Prep, Tranformation Jutsu into a rock in the room where the VIP will be, then distract Daken and Spidey until They escaped.
Sadly, JTP didn't employ this easy strategy.
But I applaud SP for effort, it was really an uphill battle and he kept up quite well most of the debate.
It was even shown Elektras stealth > Dakens, I have no idea where a security device came from, somebody must not know about Daredevils senses
Using Pre-Death Elektra scans hurt the argument even more.
Personally I would've had Kakashi solo. Shadow Clones during Prep, Tranformation Jutsu into a rock in the room where the VIP will be, then distract Daken and Spidey until They escaped.
Sadly, JTP didn't employ this easy strategy.
But I applaud SP for effort, it was really an uphill battle and he kept up quite well most of the debate.
THANKS FOR THE FANTASTIC ANALYSIS! And also thank you for the strategy. I will certainly use that in the future (if it doesn't break the limits)
Actually siding with @justicethorpsylocke honestly felt although points lacked on both sides and certain areas like stealth were overlooked, i could see your team winning more by how you played them out.
@sirfizzwhizz:I vote for @solarpowered, he used Elektra the right way and I liked how he turned the Spider-Man scan against jtp using the Scarecrow scan to show how she can defeat Daken's pheromones(I'll steal that if I ever get to use Elektra against Daken lol)
I'll vote for @solarpowered overall. I did feel that too much ABC logic was used in this fight and a lot of assumptions were made about who's better than who, but I agreed with SP's ABC more than JTP's. I also felt that Daken's pheromones would work well against JTP's team as SP said and that Daken+Spidey are superior to Kakashi and Elektra in a fight. So SP wins due to having the better team and proving it.
Log in to comment