PYP FBW: Darkraiden vs Mr Ingenuity (Voting)

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sirfizzwhizz

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#1  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@mr_ingenuity

  • Law (4)
  • The Hood (2)
  • Multiple Man (1)
  • Mental Helmets

@darkraiden

  • Steel (Pre/New 52) (3)
  • Static (Pre/New 52) (3)
  • Soul Stones
  • Mental Helmet

eneral rules as followed.

  • BFR is not a win, only Death, or KO.
  • All Characters are in character.
  • All battles are random.
  • Cannot summon outside help.
  • Everyone carries only Standard Gear.
  • Teams will work together, but characters with prior teamwork will work better.

Top team starts far left. Bottom team starts far right.

No Caption Provided

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mr_ingenuity

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#3 mr_ingenuity  Moderator

@darkraiden

Like oil and water.

Opening Strategy

There isn't much I want/need to change regarding this match so if you are reading this again bare with me.

Trafalgar Law The Surgeon of Death

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Law’s Room (the space Law governs with his abilities) grants him many abilities such as spacial awareness, levitation (pseudo TK), spacial cutting, teleportation & a score of of other abilities. Teleportation is key because it’s Law’s primary method to keep your team in his Room and instantaneously attack. Law’s teleportation works by switching the locations of any object within his Room, which his spacial awareness gives him knowledge of. It’s very precise as Law has switched a dead mook into his cloths to take repeated gun shots unnoticed. It also works in combat, Law uses this tactic to unexpectedly gain the advantage.

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Form the very start Law will set up his Room surrounding your team, allowing him to operate on them. Law will his operation by teleporting a rock into Steel's heart & with the immediate expansion his heart will bust. Law's not above attaching charters internal organs with his knowledge of the human anatomy & has done so multiple times. Law has taken Smokers' heart, ruptured the organs of Doflamingo and teleported his sword into Trebol's stomach spinning it. The attack he used on Trebol is in line with my strategy.

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I not sure if Steel can survive this attack, so I'll need feats to say for sure. But Steel is going to have to do this without his armor as Law will remove Steel form his armor via teleportation.

Static will be unaware of what's happening to his teammate and will only see the results of an empty armor. Needless to say hell be up against Law, The Hood, and Multiple Man. If Static tries to help his teammate or fight back Law will take Static's head while The hood riddles him with bullets.

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The Hood (Parker Robbins)

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The Hood will have access to the norn stones while empowered by Dormammu. The Hood’s often used abilities would are intangibility, invisibility, levitation & hell fire/norn stone amped guns. He also minor powers such as teleportation, Dormammu empowered sight (allowing him to see past illusions & obstructions) healing, resurrection & grant teammates amps in stats/abilities

It should be noted The Hood doesn’t have a limit on his abilities will in use he can use his powers indefinitely. Also attack while intangible and use intangibility while invisible.

Raining bullets while passing through a wall.

The Hood will fly straight for your team using invisibility with intangibility to attack concealed and unhindered. Considering your team works in science they will have little to go on fighting the magical nature of The Hood powerset. It's important to note the hood isn't only invisible he's absent form the electromagnetic spectrum. There is also has intangibility that makes him massless via norn stones having pass through the Destroyer's transmutation and disintegration beam. Even without the norn stones the Hood has passed through energy attacks unharmed.

Multiple Man (James Madrox)

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Madrox powers is easily summed up with a Handbook entry.

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Although it should be noted Mardox has produced far more than forty dupes. He’s created enough dupes to search Detroit.

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Mardox has one ability and it’s the only thing he’s good at in a fight. So he’ll spam dupes until he runs out of space. Considering his teammates are taking on the majority of the battle Mardox most likely won’t get that far.

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Darkraiden has an uphill battle here. Tag for votes.

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DarkRaiden

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#5  Edited By DarkRaiden

@mr_ingenuity:

Intros if you need 'em

Static

No Caption Provided

He has lightning powers, electromagnetism, and stuff like that. Plus he's smart.

Here's a respect thread or two for more:

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2eu9wm/respect_static/

http://www.comicvine.com/static/4005-26578/forums/static-respect-thread-417804/

Steel

No Caption Provided

He's a super smart dude that made a suit to fight crime and supervillains. Was inspired by Superman,eventually joined the Justice League, has taken hits and given out hits to many heavy hitters. He's a better Iron Man. Yeah I said it.

Respect thread for him:

http://www.comicvine.com/steel/4005-2031/forums/steel-respect-thread-redone-674581/

Flaws with your Plan/Counters

Law Making the Room Immediately and Going on the Attack

So according to you, Law will be immediately making a room around me team. Then he's gonna somehow teleport a rock into Steel's heart, teleport Steel out of his armor, and do it before we can react apparently.

Problems with that:

1. From the scan you showed, Law's room wouldn't extend all the way to my team.

2. Law has no idea where my team is, can't see us, can't locate us, and doesn't know anything about us. For all Law knows, we're up north or behind him, or etc. Also Law doesn't even KNOW Steel's in a suit. Steel could have metal skin or just be a metal man. Law has no reason to try to immediately teleport Steel out of his armor

3. I need a better feat for Law teleporting objects into people's organs. The feat you showed was him making an arm spin, not exactly teleporting something inside of someone else's body. Especially a rock into a heart.

4. I need reaction feats for Law. I'll show plenty for Steel and Static. I doubt he can blitz as you say. From the gif you showed, a normal marine was able to react and talk before Law was able to take off his head. That gives us seconds to react. And seconds is enough.

5. Steel can teleport his armor to him at will.

The Hood

You said The Hood is absent from the Electromagnetic Spectrum. Basically, I just need proof of this before I move on. That and the same as Law, how he even finds or locates my team.

Also your guns look very....metal. And thus Static can disarm them.

Multiple Man

Just as you're not using him much, he's pretty much fodder. Static can and has taken out multitudes of people at once, and nothing Madrox has can counter simply being put to sleep or magnetized/charged/immobilized.

Basics

1. Static and Steel will locate your team via electromagnetic sight, flying high to get a good view, and the various scans Steel's armor possesses.

2. Static charges the area around us and the area around you to magnetically charge and stick and immobilize your team

3. Steel will be blitzing your team via throwing his hammer, which has hit and blitzed the likes of Doomsday, Eradicator, and Martian Manhunter. With this in mind, his hammer will likely be getting to you long before Law can get to us. Same with Static's powers. Hood also won't likely have time to react either.

4. Static will be putting your team down at the same time via lightning from the skies shutting down their electric impulses

5. Static will of course have his forcefield up to block any attacks

6. And all of this happens within seconds if not faster. Meaning we find and blitz your team, taking them out before they can react.

Feats:

Static Charging things, and charging people from far range:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028391-static__005___03.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028448-static__009___03.jpg

Static's Shields blocking stuff:

debris, bombs, building collapsing:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028675-static_40_18.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1081655-untitled2.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028486-static_12_page06.jpg

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bullets

http://i.imgur.com/qjYHScb.png

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more bombs

http://i.imgur.com/SbmSUL6.jpg

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Static EM Sight:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/34678/1998255-static_shock_01_010.jpg

Static disrupting EM Impulses from far range:

http://i.imgur.com/KeRiZ27.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/7604/2269713-thesavagehawkman_7_thegroup_007.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/I6eC0fB.jpg

Steel Teleports Armor at last second:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3140610-steel-12-15-16.jpg

Steel's hammer hitting MMH:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3398307-mm_06_016.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3398308-mm_06_017.jpg

Steel's hammer hitting Eradicator:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3074602-10.jpg

Steel's hammer hitting Doomsday:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3398075-steel3_3.jpg

Steel Radioscopic scan:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3449288-jla+heavens+ladder+p009.jpg

Summary

1. Law's Room can't expand to encompass my team

2. Law needs feats for his strategies, and Steel's teleporting of his armor makes most of it moot

3. Hood needs feats for being absent of the EM Spectrum

4. Multiple Man is useless

5. Static charges and magnetizes and immobilizes your team while Steel blitzstomps them with his hammer

6. Your team doesn't have a way to locate us easily and thus will be caught off guard

7. Due to being faster, my team ends this before your team begins their plan

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mr_ingenuity

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#6  Edited By mr_ingenuity  Moderator

@darkraiden:

Rebuttal

So according to you, Law will be immediately making a room around me team. Then he's gonna somehow teleport a rock into Steel's heart, teleport Steel out of his armor, and do it before we can react apparently.

According to my strategy Law will create his Room teleport a rock into steel and remove Steel from his armor. You have to prove your team can react or out speed Law. This will go a lot smother if you don't misinterpret my claims if there is something I need to elaborate on ask.

Problems with that:

1. From the scan you showed, Law's room wouldn't extend all the way to my team.

I was attempting to be light on scans so this will be an easy read but I can certainly prove my statements.

Law will make a Room far bigger than the battlefield in the OP & since BFR isn't allowed your team is stuck within his Room. Law has made his Room far bigger than a mountain to ensure no one can see its edge nor escape.

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If you had payed just a little more attention to my scans you would have seen this.

2. Law has no idea where my team is, can't see us, can't locate us, and doesn't know anything about us. For all Law knows, we're up north or behind him, or etc. Also Law doesn't even KNOW Steel's in a suit. Steel could have metal skin or just be a metal man. Law has no reason to try to immediately teleport Steel out of his armor

Refer back to the scan above.

Law has spacial awareness meaning he’ll know the location of everything within his Room. He has been able to tell the bullet missed his vital organs the instant he has been shot & spot the the location of a dead body the fits as a body double dozens of storeys below him. Most of his feats I've shown for Law are things he can't possibly do relying on sight. Besides Law's spacial awareness he has haki allows him to perceive enemies presence, aura or spirit. Haki even grants Law precog determining what's your team next move will be.

Your team may have the soul stones but they doesn't protect them form Law sensing their presents and teleporting the living body withing the armor.

3. I need a better feat for Law teleporting objects into people's organs. The feat you showed was him making an arm spin, not exactly teleporting something inside of someone else's body. Especially a rock into a heart.

Clearly form your statement you misunderstand the feat. So showing another feat has no bearing on you agreeing, I'll explain it in greater detail. Law's abilities are limited to within his Room the only thing that has shown to work without his Room present is teleportation. Considering Law has moved items in and out of his Room there is no other reason this feat can't be taken as shown.

Law is barely alive and has been restrained by Trebol's goo so there isn't anything Law can do physically to accomplish this feat. Now concerning Law's powers that's requires a different explanation. The scan makes it clear Law's severed arm & sword are not within his Room. Because of this Law cannot use his pseudo TK & so is left with one option teleportation. If you understood how manga panels are read (right to left & top to bottom) it shown in one page Law's are appears without warning.

No Caption Provided
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Unless you have conflicting evidence or knowledge I'm not aware of (neither of which I find plausible) then there isn't anything for you to refute. I've also shown the entirety of the feat (first & last scan) so there isn't any claim of missing context.

4. I need reaction feats for Law. I'll show plenty for Steel and Static. I doubt he can blitz as you say. From the gif you showed, a normal marine was able to react and talk before Law was able to take off his head. That gives us seconds to react. And seconds is enough.

I will show reaction feats for Law. But first I would like to address you adding statements that are not present in my post. "I doubt he can blitz as you say." Reread every post within the thread you wont find blitz before your post, not even me stating Law will move form his position on the battlefield.

Law’s reaction speed feats.

Reacts to meteors & redirecting them in the air.

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Saves Sanji form a whip that stretched across an island cutting down a tower.

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Even catches said whip with his sword.

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5. Steel can teleport his armor to him at will.

That won't help Steel with ruptured heart & when Law removes Steel form his armor Steel's immediate thoughts won't be to reequipped his armor. Due to the internal bleeding Steel should faint when his blood pressure rapidly drops and that's no more than a heart beat away.

You said The Hood is absent from the Electromagnetic Spectrum. Basically, I just need proof of this before I move on. That and the same as Law, how he even finds or locates my team.

Also your guns look very....metal. And thus Static can disarm them.

Aim couldn't track The Hood using Ultraviolet & radar even before Hood had intangibility with the restriction of holding his breath.

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Wolverine could not find him while invisible or intangible twice during their fight.

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Hood's guns are intangible when he is, so magnetizing them is of no use.

Basics

1. Static and Steel will locate your team via electromagnetic sight, flying high to get a good view, and the various scans Steel's armor possesses.

Your team finding mine will take more time than Law activating his Room & teleport a rock Hood's powers take less time. Law's first tactic is to attack so your team blitzing as you've stated isn't comparable. The Hood on the other hand will have disappeared from Static's sight and Steel's scans. Using the EM spectrum and sound are irrelevant as Hood isn't on the EM spectrum making no sound while intangible.

2. Static charges the area around us and the area around you to magnetically charge and stick and immobilize your team

This tactic his far too slow having barely caught normal humans running. Neither will it affect an intangible opponent or a hypersonic teleporter. While Static is being shot at with magical enhanced bullets form an opponent he cannot harm. Hood's bullets hit with more force than an RPG & since Law will have Static's head by this time leaving his body defenseless.

One bullet blast through an entire building creating a new window.

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Law can cut anything within his Room distance is inconsequential & ensuring Law won't miss in this scenario.

No Caption Provided

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3. Steel will be blitzing your team via throwing his hammer, which has hit and blitzed the likes of Doomsday, Eradicator, and Martian Manhunter. With this in mind, his hammer will likely be getting to you long before Law can get to us. Same with Static's powers. Hood also won't likely have time to react either.

The fact that your strategy is base on Law blitzing is one reason why I find it implausible. Law isn't blitzing so there's no distance to be closed meaning no time taken & making most of this statement irrelevant. Also you've shown nothing as to how Steel survives ruptured heart, so Steel attacking while trying not to faint/pass out form blood loss seems out right impossible, implausible doesn't cover it.

The Hood isn't tangible let alone visible & Static can't harm someone that's phasing without molecule manipulation making them solid. But I've stated why that wouldn't work as transmutation and disintegration has failed to work on someone with the norn Stones.

4. Static will be putting your team down at the same time via lightning from the skies shutting down their electric impulses

If you would have lead with this then it would've been much more to debate. But currently you have Static searching for my team to magnetize any metals they could have, using powers that has to tag them first & then attacking them. That's too many things in a span of a minute while my team is attacking in the span of a few seconds if not two seconds. Hood will bombard Static form the very begging with magically enhanced bullets and Law will be operating on Static before this point.

5. Static will of course have his forcefield up to block any attacks

Force field can't keep The Hood out nor does it stop Law form removing Static's head. In the gif above the marine is fully aware of his severed head because the cut didn't harm him. Law cuts on a spacial level so simply attempting to block them will yield Static no results.

6. And all of this happens within seconds if not faster. Meaning we find and blitz your team, taking them out before they can react.

Static EM vision searching for my team requires concentration and getting above the trees so nothing obstruct his vision. Alone requires more than a few seconds & Steel's scans aren't shown to be any faster. Magnetizing the my team takes entirely too long & your strategy has no way around that.

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DarkRaiden

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@mr_ingenuity:

Rebuttals/Counters

Law

Law will make a Room far bigger than the battlefield in the OP & since BFR isn't allowed your team is stuck within his Room. Law has made his Room far bigger than a mountain to ensure no one can see its edge nor escape.

Problems with this:

1. Is there another view for that Room? It looks like it could be anywhere from the size of a small building to the size you claim it is. We all know how important perspective is in when we perceive size

2. Law still has to react in time to get his room up and begin his shenanigans. The gif you showed earlier showed Law taking seconds to do this, which as I said before, is him taking too long. Steel's Hammer has already killed him.

P.S. I saw the scan from before, it didn't strike me as bigger than this area.

Law has spacial awareness meaning he’ll know the location of everything within his Room. He has been able to tell the bullet missed his vital organs the instant he has been shot & spot the the location of a dead body the fits as a body double dozens of storeys below him. Most of his feats I've shown for Law are things he can't possibly do relying on sight. Besides Law's spacial awareness he has haki allows him to perceive enemies presence, aura or spirit. Haki even grants Law precog determining what's your team next move will be.

3. Proof of this? Perhaps show Law seeing/sensingand teleporting things across an area as large as the one in this battle? Sounds like speculation without the scans to back it up.

4. Precog won't help when the attack isn't very avoidable and/or is too fast for you to react to.

Law is barely alive and has been restrained by Trebol's goo so there isn't anything Law can do physically to accomplish this feat. Now concerning Law's powers that's requires a different explanation. The scan makes it clear Law's severed arm & sword are not within his Room. Because of this Law cannot use his pseudo TK & so is left with one option teleportation. If you understood how manga panels are read (right to left & top to bottom) it shown in one page Law's are appears without warning.

5. This doesn't give me the feat I want. You said Law would teleport a rock into Steel's heart (which he can't see) from a far range. I need to see Law doing this. Teleporting his arm to slice someone is not the same as teleporting an object inside of someone's heart.

I need internal organ teleporting feats. And range feats.

I will show reaction feats for Law. But first I would like to address you adding statements that are not present in my post. "I doubt he can blitz as you say." Reread every post within the thread you wont find blitz before your post, not even me stating Law will move form his position on the battlefield.

Given how fast Steel and Static's attacks are, you do in fact need to blitz to be able to get even one move off.

Reacts to meteors & redirecting them in the air.

Saves Sanji form a whip that stretched across an island cutting down a tower.

Even catches said whip with his sword.

So no reaction feats to speak of? The whip is very unquantifiable (unknown how fast it is stretching) and reacting to meteors from that far range isn't exactly impressive. Even fodder can see meteors coming from that far away. Redirecting them seems to be more of a power feat.

Plus earlier you did mention that he was shot so...I'm thinking Law isn't fast enough to get any of his moves off.

That won't help Steel with ruptured heart & when Law removes Steel form his armor Steel's immediate thoughts won't be to reequipped his armor. Due to the internal bleeding Steel should faint when his blood pressure rapidly drops and that's no more than a heart beat away.

Well...yes it will be Steel's immediate thought. That's his go to when he's hurt and when he's armorless. You still haven't shown this internal teleporting feat for Law, so I'll wait on that one.

The Hood

Aim couldn't track The Hood using Ultraviolet & radar even before Hood had intangibility with the restriction of holding his breath.

Ok so no heat or Ultraviolet, but Static has shown the ability to sense and attack based off of Electromagnetic impulses aka The Hood thinking at all. Has he shown to be invisible to that?

Hood's guns are intangible when he is so magnetizing them is of no use.

Unless you can prove that the Hood can go intangible forever instead of that short scan you showed where he may or may not have attacked while intangible (looks like his guns and upper body were already tangible), this doesn't matter too much. Also at the very least, the bullets are tangible and thus won't be able to hit anyone on my team.

Plus as said before, Hood gets blitzed. He seems to have trouble reacting to people and unless he was powerless, he was kinda blitzed by Tigra.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/15776/1299608-tigra1087.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/15776/1299609-tigra1088.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/15776/1299610-tigra1089.jpg

Static and Steel move way faster. The Hood won't have time to react before he's out like a light.

On a similar note are there any other scans of The Hood going intangible? I can't really find any and it looks like it may be a one-time move he used. Invisible? Yes. Intangible? Not so sure. Intangible while attacking (not partially intangible as the scan shows)? Really doubtful.

Countering Your Counters

Your team finding mine will take more time than Law activating his Room & teleport a rock Hood's powers take less time. Law's first tactic is to attack so your team blitzing as you've stated isn't comparable. The Hood on the other hand will have disappeared from Static's sight and Steel's scans. Using the EM spectrum and sound are irrelevant as Hood isn't on the EM spectrum making no sound while intangible.

This is wrong. Law and Hood both have to find my team before they do anything. Even in your own showing, it took Law several seconds just to put his room and take a guy's head off who's right in front of him (and the guy survived) and as said before, Hood can't exactly be intangible while attacking.

Those several seconds allows my team to blitz you and take you down.

This tactic his far too slow having barely caught normal humans running. Neither will it affect an intangible opponent or a hypersonic teleporter. While Static is being shot at with magical enhanced bullets form an opponent he cannot harm. Hood's bullets hit with more force than an RPG & since Law will have Static's head by this time leaving his body defenseless.

Wrong. This tactic caught the running humans immediately. It's instant as it's magnetic charge. And Static has affected intangible opponents before.

Magical enhanced bullets won't be doing much to Static's forcefields and Law will be magnetized or bltized by Static and Steel long before he takes his head.

Law can cut anything within his Room distance is inconsequential & ensuring Law won't miss in this scenario.

I honestly have no idea what this scan is showing. Can you explain that? Thanks.

The fact that your strategy is base on Law blitzing is one reason why I find it implausible. Law isn't blitzing so there's no distance to be closed meaning no time taken & making most of this statement irrelevant. Also you've shown nothing as to how Steel survives ruptured heart, so Steel attacking while trying not to faint/pass out form blood loss seems out right impossible, implausible doesn't cover it.

The Hood isn't tangible let alone visible & Static can't harm someone that's phasing without molecule manipulation making them solid. But I've stated why that wouldn't work as transmutation and disintegration has failed to work on someone with the norn Stones.

Law is literally blitzing by your strategy. He's attempting to:

A. Put up a room

B. Find us

C. Teleport something into Steel's heart (something he has no feats to do)

D. Teleport Steel's armor

All before we attack you. That's the definition of a blitz. Now Law's too slow to pull this off and doesn't have the feats to do so, which is why this fails and we in fact blitz.

The Hood's intangibility has yet to be proven tbh. He's never been intangible and attacking before and as said, the scan you presented shows partial intangibility, not attacking while intangible.

Static can simply turn the Hood tangible by super charging his electrons as he did to Phayze. And Hood will be sensed by the electromagnetism in his brain and heard to do firing a gun (Static's far faster than bullets).

4. Static will be putting your team down at the same time via lightning from the skies shutting down their electric impulses

If you would have lead with this then it would've been much more to debate. But currently you have Static searching for my team to magnetize any metals they could have, using powers that has to tag them first & then attacking them. That's too many things in a span of a minute while my team is attacking in the span of a few seconds if not two seconds. Hood will bombard Static form the very begging with magically enhanced bullets and Law will be operating on Static before this point.

You're misunderstanding the strategy.

1. Static's locating your team instantly due to the electric impulses in their head. Less than a second of time

2. He's charging the area around my team and yours to immobilize your team should they come close and immobilize them where they stand. Still less than a second. Law's Room isn't even up yet

3. He's not magnetizing your metals, but charging the area and magnetizing your team as said in #2

4. Then he's doing the impulses.

This at best takes 1.5 seconds, which is less time than we saw it took Law to put up a small room (not one the size of this battlefield) and take a guy's head who was right next to him.

By the time Law has done anything, especially if he's attempting to teleport rocks and teleport Steel's armor, he's already been blitzed by Steel and Static.

Hood can't even reach us before 5 minutes has passed unless you can show some travel speed for him. We're apart by the distance of a small resort, and Hood looks to travel at human speeds from what you've shown.

Force field can't keep The Hood out nor does it stop Law form removing Static's head. In the gif above the marine is fully aware of his severed head because the cut didn't harm him. Law cuts on a spacial level so simply attempting to block them will yield Static no results.

The forcefield keeps Hood's bullets out. Which is all that's needed. Law getting as close as he did to that Marine or even staying in place means Static's charges immobilize him and then his brain is shut down by Static.

And that's not accounting for Steel blitzing with his hammer.

Static EM vision searching for my team requires concentration and getting above the trees so nothing obstruct his vision. Alone requires more than a few seconds & Steel's scans aren't shown to be any faster. Magnetizing the my team takes entirely too long & your strategy has no way around that.

Static flies faster than speeding cars at least over 100ft/s. He won't have much problem getting above the trees before 1/2 a second has passed. From then on he can see and sense your team within the second. Same with Steel. This happens before Law can even act and put up his room as your gif kindly showed.

From then on, charges and Steel's hammer hit your team in less than an instant.

My Side

1. So as said before, my team is faster than yours and reacts faster than yours, so we get off the following before you can get much done (assuming you can since you haven't shown proper scans):

A. Locating you

B. Charging and immobilizing you

C. Putting you to sleep/Shutting you down

D. KO'ing you via Steel's hammer that has blitzed much faster beings

2. Your attacks are blocked by us being faster, by Steel being able to teleport his armor at will, and by Static's Forcefields (vs. Hood's bullets).

3. Fight goes like this:

0-1 seconds: We're in the air, and with a birds eye view we locate you. Law has either tried to make a large room (if you can prove he can) or has to make movements and effort to attempt to find us. Hood is moving towards us as well.

1-2 seconds: Law's room is made, Our side is charged, your side is charged, the charges reach you guys, Steel's Hammer has torn through your entire team (due to it's speed), and Law has just now made the move to either teleport to us or try the featless teleport rock thing. Hood is still moving and trying to react at this time. Your team is taken out by the hammer and the charges. Multiple Man too since he's...pretty useless. Fight over.

2-3 seconds: This would be when Law is teleporting stuff and Hood still moving. Static's lightning shuts down your teams Electric impulses however. So you'd lose here even if you miraculously survived second 2. Steel's hammer would still be killing you btw and would've made several more rounds before you can react.

Summary

1. Need more feats for Law and Hood's claims

2. We're faster and thus get off our offense and attacks before you start yours

3. We have defenses against most of your attacks

4. You don't have defenses against our attacks.

5. That's why we win before you can react.

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Long ass posts. it getting good.

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#9 mr_ingenuity  Moderator

@darkraiden:

Rebuttal II

Problems with this:

1. Is there another view for that Room? It looks like it could be anywhere from the size of a small building to the size you claim it is. We all know how important perspective is in when we perceive size

P.S. I saw the scan from before, it didn't strike me as bigger than this area.

I'm not faulting you asking question. To me this blatantly ignoring context because you simply don't agree. Is there a reasonable explanation I'm not stating what being shown in the scan?

That's is an island the visible structures in both scans are mountains in comparison.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

..

2. Law still has to react in time to get his room up and begin his shenanigans. The gif you showed earlier showed Law taking seconds to do this, which as I said before, is him taking too long. Steel's Hammer has already killed him.

Law can utilize his Room as fast as he can think Room. You keep referring back to that gif as if Law is slow when I've clearly shown the opposite. No doubt this is the direction you'll take the debate in.

I'll explain why you using a gif form the anime as counter evidence is irrelevant to Law's speed. One Piece anime is a tv show and must fill a time slot so action scenes are extended for this very purpose. With that this was Law's first appearance I'm using a vastly more powerful version

The only thing that gif was there to show is Law's spacial cutting which does no physical damage.

3. Proof of this? Perhaps show Law seeing/sensingand teleporting things across an area as large as the one in this battle? Sounds like speculation without the scans to back it up.

This Palace is several times bigger than the battlefield in the OP.

No Caption Provided

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4. Precog won't help when the attack isn't very avoidable and/or is too fast for you to react to.

I've only mention precog as Law instantly knowing the location of your team. What are you going on about?

5. This doesn't give me the feat I want. You said Law would teleport a rock into Steel's heart (which he can't see) from a far range. I need to see Law doing this. Teleporting his arm to slice someone is not the same as teleporting an object inside of someone's heart.

I need internal organ teleporting feats. And range feats.

Why should you get the feat you want? I give feats to justify my claims and having done I'm not required to do any more. Teleporting any object inside of someone is all that needed. Steel can't stop it form happening, you haven't shown Steel surviving any attack of this caliber.

This entire portion of the debate is you deflecting because you have no counter. An object in any of Steel's organs is a death sentence & I would like to see you refute that with some actual evidence.

Given how fast Steel and Static's attacks are, you do in fact need to blitz to be able to get even one move off.

This is how you justify taking statements out of context?

So no reaction feats to speak of? The whip is very unquantifiable (unknown how fast it is stretching) and reacting to meteors from that far range isn't exactly impressive. Even fodder can see meteors coming from that far away. Redirecting them seems to be more of a power feat.

Plus earlier you did mention that he was shot so...I'm thinking Law isn't fast enough to get any of his moves off.

I'm going to call this as it is Low balling. There are no two ways to interpret this "So no reaction feats to speak of?"

That whip stretched the radius of this island to reach the tower & Doflamingo is far off the coast. That feat is quantifiable considering I could crack a whip and it would move faster than speed of sound. It would take no less than hypersonic speed to accomplish that feat.

No Caption Provided

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Meteors have measurable speed being confirmed moving at mach 33. The fun thing about this is I don't have to claim Law reacts at mach 33 (even with evidence), but you have shown no feats to match it. Steel was blitz by the Doomsday clone and MM Eradicator weren't paying attention.

No Caption Provided

For the record Law was shot after being drafted excused & fighting someone characters with comparable speed. Which isn't the case here.

Ok so no heat or Ultraviolet, but Static has shown the ability to sense and attack based off of Electromagnetic impulses aka The Hood thinking at all. Has he shown to be invisible to that?

There no reason he should considering electricity is still viable in UV light and that ineffective against The Hood. Not to mention Static can't see the Electromagnetic impulses of a ghost or someone proven not to be on the Electromagnetic spectrum.

Unless you can prove that the Hood can go intangible forever instead of that short scan you showed where he may or may not have attacked while intangible (looks like his guns and upper body were already tangible), this doesn't matter too much. Also at the very least, the bullets are tangible and thus won't be able to hit anyone on my team.

You're very inconsistent with your claims here. The Hood has the benefit of two powers working together.

Loki specifically states "What you imagine you're self to be -- the stones will see it too be true." The Hood decides intangible using both Dormammu & the stones he will be indefinitely.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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Plus as said before, Hood gets blitzed. He seems to have trouble reacting to people and unless he was powerless, he was kinda blitzed by Tigra.

There's clear context you're missing The Hood isn't using the stones to grant himself superhuman stats. That is something Dormammu's power gave The Hood passively.

With super human stats the Hood laughs at a bullet timer attempting to blitz him. Namely Mr Negative who shown spiderman level speed.

No Caption Provided

.

This is wrong. Law and Hood both have to find my team before they do anything. Even in your own showing, it took Law several seconds just to put his room and take a guy's head off who's right in front of him (and the guy survived) and as said before, Hood can't exactly be intangible while attacking.

Those several seconds allows my team to blitz you and take you down.

Addressed above.

Wrong. This tactic caught the running humans immediately. It's instant as it's magnetic charge. And Static has affected intangible opponents before.

Magical enhanced bullets won't be doing much to Static's forcefields and Law will be magnetized or bltized by Static and Steel long before he takes his head.

The norn stones give the Hood a ghost like body absent of molecules. The Destroyer's transmutation bolts that manipulates matter on a subatomic scale passes right though Thor.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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The Hood doesn't have to blast Static's force field as he can slip through and shoot him point blank without Static knowing he's there.

No Caption Provided

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You've literally shown no scans of Static or Steel blitzing. Steel is throwing a hammer in a straight line Thor can do that. Which is easily dodged.

You're misunderstanding the strategy.

I'm not your changing your strategy.

1. Static's locating your team instantly due to the electric impulses in their head. Less than a second of time

Your original statement accompanied by the scan below. "1. Static and Steel will locate your team via electromagnetic sight, flying high to get a good view, and the various scans Steel's armor possesses."

No Caption Provided

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2. He's charging the area around my team and yours to immobilize your team should they come close and immobilize them where they stand. Still less than a second. Law's Room isn't even up yet

3. He's not magnetizing your metals, but charging the area and magnetizing your team as said in #2

Can't immobilize/restrain a ghost & a teleporter both can leave the area static magnetized. Which is rather small based on your scans.

4. Then he's doing the impulses.

Which mean he has to tag Law and The Hood. Law is faster than Static and Hood is intangible.

This at best takes 1.5 seconds, which is less time than we saw it took Law to put up a small room (not one the size of this battlefield) and take a guy's head who was right next to him.

If you change your strategy a little more it might. Law's Room has been up before an object moving at mach 30 could hit him form a few feat away. The only way that rock literally pulled form the sky could be on fire if it burned up in the atmosphere via speed.

No Caption Provided

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By the time Law has done anything, especially if he's attempting to teleport rocks and teleport Steel's armor, he's already been blitzed by Steel and Static.

Still no blitz feats.

Hood can't even reach us before 5 minutes has passed unless you can show some travel speed for him. We're apart by the distance of a small resort, and Hood looks to travel at human speeds from what you've shown.

The Hood can fly with the norn stones and Thor flew back to Asgard using the norn stones. Now your just nitpicking.

No Caption Provided

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The forcefield keeps Hood's bullets out. Which is all that's needed. Law getting as close as he did to that Marine or even staying in place means Static's charges immobilize him and then his brain is shut down by Static.

And that's not accounting for Steel blitzing with his hammer.

Addressed above.

Static flies faster than speeding cars at least over 100ft/s. He won't have much problem getting above the trees before 1/2 a second has passed. From then on he can see and sense your team within the second. Same with Steel. This happens before Law can even act and put up his room as your gif kindly showed.

From then on, charges and Steel's hammer hit your team in less than an instant.

Flying faster than cars is the best you can show for Static? So Static flying faster than cars is faster than Hood with the norn stones that can travel the planet and law can swing his sword. Honestly Static flying faster than cars is irrelevant.

Your ignorant claims of Law has been debunked.

The rest is complete speculation without any speed feats to validate them and I don't respond to fan-fic in debates.

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#11  Edited By DarkRaiden

@mr_ingenuity:

Rebuttals

Law

That's is an island the visible structures in both scans are mountains in comparison.

I see a small castle. No mountains, no area bigger than the battlefield.

Law can utilize his Room as fast as he can think Room. You keep referring back to that gif as if Law is slow when I've clearly shown the opposite. No doubt this is the direction you'll take the debate in.

I'll explain why you using a gif form the anime as counter evidence is irrelevant to Law's speed. One Piece anime is a tv show and must fill a time slot so action scenes are extended for this very purpose. With that this was Law's first appearance I'm using a vastly more powerful version

The only thing that gif was there to show is Law's spacial cutting which does no physical damage.

Prove law can use Room as fast as he can think. I only use the gif, because you showed it. You can say the anime is slower, but it's up to you to show the manga scan. See I'm not focusing on the time taken in the gif, but what actions took place.

1. The normal, not fast soldier had time to talk, speak, and react before Law did what he did. That translates to Law's room taking seconds to put up and for him to perform any actions. If they don't take that long, then counter it. Until then, I can only use what was shown.

This Palace is several times bigger than the battlefield in the OP.

I disagree. I see the palace fitting directly in the middle, a little bigger than that small resort. You have to prove your statements and not just post pictures.

I've only mention precog as Law instantly knowing the location of your team. What are you going on about?

That's not the type of precog haki grants IIRC. It grants you the ability to see the opponent's attack and react. You don't just know the location of people. If you have feats for it, then show it. Otherwise, you're getting blitzed and precog won't help you as I mentioned.

Why should you get the feat you want? I give feats to justify my claims and having done I'm not required to do any more. Teleporting any object inside of someone is all that needed. Steel can't stop it form happening, you haven't shown Steel surviving any attack of this caliber.

Because you're making an unsubstantiated claim. You've yet to show Law teleporting something into another person's body and from long range. The heart in particular takes precision. And as you've shown, when Law messes with people's bodies, it's not fatal and does no damage.

That whip stretched the radius of this island to reach the tower & Doflamingo is far off the coast. That feat is quantifiable considering I could crack a whip and it would move faster than speed of sound. It would take no less than hypersonic speed to accomplish that feat.

Without time and distance, the feat has no real speed. Even if it were hypersonic, the fact that it's stretching the island makes it easier to react to and wouldn't give Law hypersonic reactions. It'd basically be bullet timing.

Meteors have measurable speed being confirmed moving at mach 33. The fun thing about this is I don't have to claim Law reacts at mach 33 (even with evidence), but you have shown no feats to match it. Steel was blitz by the Doomsday clone and MM Eradicator weren't paying attention.

Look at the scans again. Here, Eradicator clearly turns and sees the hammer. He has near lightspeed reactions and still couldn't dodge in time:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3074602-10.jpg

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Same with MMH. Except MMH attacked Steel first and thus would be expecting the hammer. Still got hit:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3398307-mm_06_016.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3398308-mm_06_017.jpg

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Doomsday too saw the hammer coming, still got hit:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3398075-steel3_3.jpg

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And for more reaction feats, he's also dodged Doomsday's heat vision (supposed to be lightspeed like Superman's):

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3398097-action_comics_901__009.jpg

---

As for the meteor, you're own scan proves it's not close to Mach 33. This is OP, not real life. In OP, a normal fodder soldier was able to react to the meteor and say words. Everyone else was able to look up and see it and react. Clearly this meteor is not Mach 33. That's around 7 miles per second and that meteor traveled far less than 7 miles in those many seconds in that scan.

As said before, it wasn't an impressive reaction feat, more of a power feat.

Meanwhile Steel reacts to lightspeed attacks and opponents at point blank range. It's clear who's faster.

The Hood and Static

There no reason he should considering electricity is still viable in UV light and that ineffective against The Hood. Not to mention Static can't see the Electromagnetic impulses of a ghost or someone proven not to be on the Electromagnetic spectrum.

Not sure what the first part of your statement means, but Hood hasn't proven not to be in the electromagnetic spectrum. Only UV Light and thermal. That's only heat, body heat. Nothing about the electric signals in his brain. He'll be sensed and taken out.

Loki specifically states "What you imagine you're self to be -- the stones will see it too be true." The Hood decides intangible using both Dormammu & the stones he will be indefinitely.

Prove it. Hood's only used intangibility in one scan ever that you've provided. Loki's feats with the norn stones don't count. Especially as Loki can turn intangible without them.

There's clear context you're missing The Hood isn't using the stones to grant himself superhuman stats. That is something Dormammu's power gave The Hood passively.

With super human stats the Hood laughs at a bullet timer attempting to blitz him. Namely Mr Negative who shown spiderman level speed.

Not only does Mr. Negative hit him there, but Mr. Negative is slow compared to my team and our offensive. Being tagged my Tigra and Mr. Negative just guarantees that The Hood won't have time to react to Static's lightning and Steel's hammer (that has hit much faster opponents).

The norn stones give the Hood a ghost like body absent of molecules. The Destroyer's transmutation bolts that manipulates matter on a subatomic scale passes right though Thor.

That wasn't the norn stones. That was Loki, locked up in a cell somewhere where he couldn't possibly have them on him. And it left him exhausted. This is not a Hood feat and irrelevant to the battle.

The Loki feat:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiPhasing02JIM119.jpg

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Which mean he has to tag Law and The Hood. Law is faster than Static and Hood is intangible.

Law is not faster than Static by any means. And Hood has yet to be proven fast enough or intangible. Also Static does this to intangible people:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/2239216-static_07_018.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/2239217-static_07_019.jpg

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He makes them tangible.

As for Static's speed feats, look below in the next section

Still no blitz feats.

If you don't count hitting lightspeeders before they can react. Sure.

The Hood can fly with the norn stones and Thor flew back to Asgard using the norn stones. Now your just nitpicking.

The Hood isn't Thor. The Hood has had Norn Stones longer than Thor and has yet to levitate or fly like that. Without feats, you're only speculating. Not to mention that Thor can fly on his own.

Again, not a relevant scan or feat for this battle. Show me Hood's feats with the Norn Stones.

Flying faster than cars is the best you can show for Static? So Static flying faster than cars is faster than Hood with the norn stones that can travel the planet and law can swing his sword. Honestly Static flying faster than cars is irrelevant.

No, that's Statics travel speeds. His reaction speeds is reacting to mach 24 explosions in an instant from point blank range. Hood can't travel the planet unless you prove it. I. Need. Scans.

And Static flying faster than cars means he flies over 100ft per second. Meaning he gets a birds eye view before a second is up. It makes it easier to find your team.

Static Speed Feats

EM shield blocks gas bomb at last second:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1081655-untitled2.jpg

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blocks machine gun fire:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1108557-untitled.png

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blocks lasers:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028728-static_44_12.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028737-static_45_16.jpg

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redirects rocket:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028631-static__034___04.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028632-static__034___05.jpg

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blocks bombs:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028401-static0602.jpg

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blocks fire and speed blitz:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1028345-static_01_21.jpg

And before you say how these aren't impressive, bullets are around mach 3 and blocking something that's mach 3 from 10ft >>>blocking something mach 33 from 300ft away. It's simple math. And explosions are even faster than mach 3 (around mach 24) and Static blocked those from point blank range at the last second:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/outrun-explosion2.htm

"Gases are released from the explosive at the super speedy rate of 26,400 feet per second (8,050 meters per second), pummeling everything in its immediate wake."

8050 m/s = mach 24+

And before you mention it's C4 only, here's a table of explosive detonation speed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_explosive_detonation_velocities

Lowest one is still mach 12.

My Side

1. So as said before, my team is faster than yours and reacts faster than yours, so we get off the following before you can get much done (assuming you can since you haven't shown proper scans):

A. Locating you

B. Charging and immobilizing you

C. Putting you to sleep/Shutting you down

D. KO'ing you via Steel's hammer that has blitzed much faster beings

2. Your attacks are blocked by us being faster, by Steel being able to teleport his armor at will, and by Static's Forcefields (vs. Hood's bullets).

3. Fight goes like this:

0-1 seconds: We're in the air, and with a birds eye view we locate you. Law has either tried to make a large room (if you can prove he can) or has to make movements and effort to attempt to find us. Hood is moving towards us as well.

1-2 seconds: Law's room is made, Our side is charged, your side is charged, the charges reach you guys, Steel's Hammer has torn through your entire team (due to it's speed), and Law has just now made the move to either teleport to us or try the featless teleport rock thing. Hood is still moving and trying to react at this time. Your team is taken out by the hammer and the charges. Multiple Man too since he's...pretty useless. Fight over.

2-3 seconds: This would be when Law is teleporting stuff and Hood still moving. Static's lightning shuts down your teams Electric impulses however. So you'd lose here even if you miraculously survived second 2. Steel's hammer would still be killing you btw and would've made several more rounds before you can react

This still stands. And you haven't countered anything in there.

Summary

1. I've proven Steel and Static's reaction speeds

2. Law's feat of reacting to meteors that fodder can react to is not impressive and far slower than my team

3. By feats, it takes too long for Law to get up his room and do actions and the fight is already over by then

4. Law also has no proof of teleporting objects into people. When he does mess with people's bodies, it never does lethal damage (as seen when he has the soldier's head) and thus the plan is useless

5. The Hood nor Law are fast enough to react to us, defend from us, or attack us

6. The Hood doesn't get others' feats with the Norn Stones since he's never done them when he had the stones. Also some of those feats weren't even Norn feats

7. No counters to Static's powers, while Static can counter your powers

8. No way to hurt Steel or survive his attacks.

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#12  Edited By mr_ingenuity  Moderator

@sirfizzwhizz: @darkraiden: Excuse the wait I made this post days ago & due to CV's if wasn't posted. Now I'm making closing statements so whenever DR is ready this can go to voting.

Closing

I see a small castle. No mountains, no area bigger than the battlefield.

No one who reads this can go by what you see. So your choices are explain why it’s not as shown in the scan or concede.

Just so you know I’ve already shown Law cut a mountain and the surroundings. Which is why I think you shouldn’t waste your time.

No Caption Provided

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Prove law can use Room as fast as he can think. I only use the gif, because you showed it. You can say the anime is slower, but it's up to you to show the manga scan. See I'm not focusing on the time taken in the gif, but what actions took place.

1. The normal, not fast soldier had time to talk, speak, and react before Law did what he did. That translates to Law's room taking seconds to put up and for him to perform any actions. If they don't take that long, then counter it. Until then, I can only use what was shown.

Law utilizes his Room in combat without setting it up while recalling memorizes. What’s the argument now?

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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No you only used the gif because you’d rather ignore context to benefit your debate. I’ve already stated that is Law’s first vastly weaker appearance, while showing speed feats far greater, but I doubt that will change anything.

I disagree. I see the palace fitting directly in the middle, a little bigger than that small resort. You have to prove your statements and not just post pictures.

Addressed.

That's not the type of precog haki grants IIRC. It grants you the ability to see the opponent's attack and react. You don't just know the location of people. If you have feats for it, then show it. Otherwise, you're getting blitzed and precog won't help you as I mentioned.

Having only half the correct answer still means you’re incorrect. Also without a source (comic title issue number character statement) you're just assuming.

No Caption Provided

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Because you're making an unsubstantiated claim. You've yet to show Law teleporting something into another person's body and from long range. The heart in particular takes precision. And as you've shown, when Law messes with people's bodies, it's not fatal and does no damage.

No I haven’t made any claim I can’t support my previous scans are proof. I refrained from doing so again because you’ve yet to show steel surviving such an attack, while dismissing my scans. But I can close this with evidence, but unlike the character below Steel’s body doesn’t disperse when touched.

No Caption Provided

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Law’s power and skill are the pinnacle of precision. Law’s moniker is the Surgeon of Death, because Law makes use of his surgical knowledge, combined with combat training and supernatural ability. Also Law’s special manipulation can be used to incapacitate or harm.

Law could easily teleport things within Steel as he could use his powers to pierce your team’s hearts with precision. Law has keep the pace with Doflamingo’s non stop assault attacking when he sees his chance.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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Law has used his power on the Straw Hats being within his Room. With that Law’s power is space manipulation so distance is inconsequential, while shields and armor provided no defence.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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Without time and distance, the feat has no real speed. Even if it were hypersonic, the fact that it's stretching the island makes it easier to react to and wouldn't give Law hypersonic reactions. It'd basically be bullet timing.

Bullets move in straight lines whips do not, and Doflamingo’s whip moves in an arcing path as shown in the scans. Bulletsrange doesn't cover from far off the coast spanning the radius of an island. If you want to argue distance Dressrosa is between 2000 - 4000 miles meaning for Doflamingo whip to reach inland from the coast it would need to move hundreds of miles with a whip that moves at hypersonic speed.

No Caption Provided

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Look at the scans again. Here, Eradicator clearly turns and sees the hammer. He has near lightspeed reactions and still couldn't dodge in time:

Same with MMH. Except MMH attacked Steel first and thus would be expecting the hammer. Still got hit:

Show me where Eradicator or Martian Manhunter using their speed in these scans. You’ve stated “Steel reacts to lightspeed attacks and opponents at point blank range.” You’ve stated “Meanwhile Steel reacts to lightspeed attacks and opponents at point blank range.” Now show Steel attacking at the of light.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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I’m doubtful you will provided the evidence as even in the scans you have shown Steel was blitzed by the Clone moving nowhere near the speed of light.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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As for the meteor, you're own scan proves it's not close to Mach 33. This is OP, not real life. In OP, a normal fodder soldier was able to react to the meteor and say words. Everyone else was able to look up and see it and react. Clearly this meteor is not Mach 33. That's around 7 miles per second and that meteor traveled far less than 7 miles in those many seconds in that scan.

As said before, it wasn't an impressive reaction feat, more of a power feat.

You have no evidence physics works differently in One Piece as it does in Marvel or DC. Lot of things defy physics in comics but you have no problem quantifying them. No one would even consider Steel as light speed which is physics standards of impossible but you’ve made an exception.

Here’s what I think of your calculations.

No Caption Provided

Not sure what the first part of your statement means, but Hood hasn't proven not to be in the electromagnetic spectrum. Only UV Light and thermal. That's only heat, body heat. Nothing about the electric signals in his brain. He'll be sensed and taken out.

You do understand that being invisible from radar (radio & microwaves), thermal (infrared), visible light, and UV light are five of the seven measurable waves on the EM spectrum right? This isn’t me talking out of my backside (PG for CV), that’s elementary science. The hood being invisible to five out of seven is a win for me.

Prove it. Hood's only used intangibility in one scan ever that you've provided. Loki's feats with the norn stones don't count.Especially as Loki can turn intangible without them.

That wasn't the norn stones. That was Loki, locked up in a cell somewhere where he couldn't possibly have them on him. And it left him exhausted. This is not a Hood feat and irrelevant to the battle.

I’ve been cleared to use the feats of Dormammu & norn stones as of last round. I’m also not arguing the Hood doing anything outside of his combined powerset or rules. So take it up with @sirfizzwhizz

Now it’s clear you don’t know the context to that scan but you attempt to make me look as if I’m the ignorant one.

What you failed to realize Thor had the norn stones but had no understanding of how to use them beyond flight so Loki used them on his behalf. If you read Thor's statement and Loki’s from a previous issue of Journey into Mystery, then they’re similar.

"They have the power to transform my own body's molecules --! Enabling me to become an unsolid ghostly figure," Loki

"My entire molecular structure has been changed so that I am now unsolid!" Thor

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

So again your team has no way to tag him even on the subatomic scale (Staitc).

Not only does Mr. Negative hit him there, but Mr. Negative is slow compared to my team and our offensive. Being tagged my Tigra and Mr. Negative just guarantees that The Hood won't have time to react to Static's lightning and Steel's hammer (that has hit much faster opponents).

The Hood is using his intangibility far more effectively than in the fight with Mr Negative doing so form the very beginning. Your team would even find him before the Hood is intangible and couldn’t see him with invisibility.

Law is not faster than Static by any means. And Hood has yet to be proven fast enough or intangible. Also Static does this to intangible people:

He makes them tangible.

Law is faster than static by everything I’ve shown. Matter manipulation doesn’t work on the norn stones ghostly intangibility Static is out of his depth.

If you don't count hitting lightspeeders before they can react. Sure.

Addressed.

The Hood isn't Thor. The Hood has had Norn Stones longer than Thor and has yet to levitate or fly like that. Without feats, you're only speculating. Not to mention that Thor can fly on his own.

A combined powerset means I have access to both feats. With that the Hood is better than Thor at the use of the norn stones because The Hood uses them to teleport long distances. But considering The Hood’s confined to a small battle field there isn’t any reason Dormammu and norn stones combined power wouldn’t fly at high speed.

Also Thor can't fly.

No Caption Provided

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No, that's Statics travel speeds. His reaction speeds is reacting to mach 24 explosions in an instant from point blank range. Hood can't travel the planet unless you prove it. I. Need. Scans.

You can scale Static's feat to high end reaction speed but without combat speed feats he still can't move at hypersonic speeds to attack.

The Hood teleports back to his hideout in New York after Loki took him to acquire the norn stones. That’s clearly traveling the planet at speeds faster than light (don’t think too hard on about this one :P).

No Caption Provided

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And Static flying faster than cars means he flies over 100ft per second. Meaning he gets a birds eye view before a second is up. It makes it easier to find your team.

This speed isn’t irrelevant as Law can utilize his Room teleport and cut things moving far faster than 100 ft per second. If Static isn’t showing feat of accomplishing his tactics at hypersonic speed he’s clearly too slow.

Static isn’t even hypersonic in combat speed and he’s supposed to find and beat my team in two seconds. Steel isn’t offering any help with ruptured organs so prove Static can solo.

Keep in mind only feats count not fan-fic.

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@mr_ingenuity:

Closing

Rebuttals

Law's speed and attack+Steel

Law utilizes his Room in combat without setting it up while recalling memorizes. What’s the argument now?

No you only used the gif because you’d rather ignore context to benefit your debate. I’ve already stated that is Law’s first vastly weaker appearance, while showing speed feats far greater, but I doubt that will change anything.

1. Utilizing the room after recalling memories and thinking several times to himself backs my assertion that setting up the Room takes a number of seconds to set up. In this case, that is too slow.

2. The gif is the only thing you posted that showed the Room in real time. The scans have no time shown and thus technically don't have speed accounted for.

No I haven’t made any claim I can’t support my previous scans are proof. I refrained from doing so again because you’ve yet to show steel surviving such an attack, while dismissing my scans. But I can close this with evidence, but unlike the character below Steel’s body doesn’t disperse when touched.

This is showing a spike stab a guy. Steel's armor has taken attacks from stronger people. What I want is Law teleporting objects into people's hearts. Even if he could teleport stuff into people's stomachs and whatnot, that wouldn't kill. It also wasn't from the ranged you said it would be from. I ask for simple things.

A. Scan of Law teleporting weapons or objects into people's organs

B. Him showing range to do it from the length of the battlefield.

You showed neither.

Law could easily teleport things within Steel as he could use his powers to pierce your team’s hearts with precision. Law has keep the pace with Doflamingo’s non stop assault attacking when he sees his chance.

This isn't impressive to me because I have no idea how fast Doflamingo is supposed to be. On the other hand, I have Steel fighting the likes of Doomsday and MMH and being able to react and fight.

Law has used his power on the Straw Hats being within his Room. With that Law’s power is space manipulation so distance is inconsequential, while shields and armor provided no defence.

This proves my other point, that Law doesn't do damage with his abilities. He manipulated their hearts and yet...no damage.

Show me where Eradicator or Martian Manhunter using their speed in these scans. You’ve stated “Steel reacts to lightspeed attacks and opponents at point blank range.” You’ve stated “Meanwhile Steel reacts to lightspeed attacks and opponents at point blank range.” Now show Steel attacking at the of light.

The scans you showed had Steel hitting FTL people before they could react, as did the Doomsday one. Not sure what more you would need.

I’m doubtful you will provided the evidence as even in the scans you have shown Steel was blitzed by the Clone moving nowhere near the speed of light.

I'm not sure how you make the assertion that Doomsday isn't moving near the speed of light. Steel also wasn't blitzed, he got clear thoughts off, he was surprised that Doomsday could fly because....Doomsday can't fly.

Also he literally dodged Doomsday's heat vision (copied from Superman and Supergirl heat vision, which is lightspeed):

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3398097-action_comics_901__009.jpg

Here’s what I think of your calculations.

Proving that normal humans can react to meteors and that it's not an impressive feat. Thank you very much.


The Hood+Static

You do understand that being invisible from radar (radio & microwaves), thermal (infrared), visible light, and UV light are five of the seven measurable waves on the EM spectrum right? This isn’t me talking out of my backside (PG for CV), that’s elementary science. The hood being invisible to five out of seven is a win for me.

No it's not. I have access to all 7 and more (sensing the very electromagnetic impulses in your brain and being able to see and track the charge from electrons). It means you're hard to find....for other people. But not for Static.

I’ve been cleared to use the feats of Dormammu & norn stones as of last round. I’m also not arguing the Hood doing anything outside of his combined powerset or rules. So take it up with @sirfizzwhizz

Now it’s clear you don’t know the context to that scan but you attempt to make me look as if I’m the ignorant one.

What you failed to realize Thor had the norn stones but had no understanding of how to use them beyond flight so Loki used them on his behalf. If you read Thor's statement and Loki’s from a previous issue of Journey into Mystery, then they’re similar.

"They have the power to transform my own body's molecules --! Enabling me to become an unsolid ghostly figure," Loki

"My entire molecular structure has been changed so that I am now unsolid!" Thor

Pretty sure you only get Hood's feats with the Norn Stones and Dormammu's power up.

And thank you for proving my point again. Hood doesn't know how to become intangible with them, and like Thor he won't be able to do so. He doesn't have Loki helping him here.

So again your team has no way to tag him even on the subatomic scale (Staitc).

Proof that's subatomic? Because both statements claim molecules and molecules are made up of atoms and atoms are made up of protons, neutrons, and electrons, and Static has shown to affect on the electron/subatomic level. My feats are therefore greater than yours in this case.

A combined powerset means I have access to both feats. With that the Hood is better than Thor at the use of the norn stones because The Hood uses them to teleport long distances. But considering The Hood’s confined to a small battle field there isn’t any reason Dormammu and norn stones combined power wouldn’t fly at high speed.

Proof Hood is better than Thor at using the Norn Stones? I've yet to see him teleport or fly long distances. And the reason the combined powers wouldn't fly faster? No feats to suggest they stack. Plus last I saw, Norn Stones were only there to replace Dormammu's power.

This speed isn’t irrelevant as Law can utilize his Room teleport and cut things moving far faster than 100 ft per second. If Static isn’t showing feat of accomplishing his tactics at hypersonic speed he’s clearly too slow.

Static isn’t even hypersonic in combat speed and he’s supposed to find and beat my team in two seconds. Steel isn’t offering any help with ruptured organs so prove Static can solo.

Not true. Every feat you've shown has Law needing more than a few seconds to even put up his Room. In less than 1 second Static has already flown up and will locate your team within the next second. Static's hypersonic in combat speed due to actively blocking bullets. And his lightning moves at....the speed of lightning. Which is far above hypersonic.

Steel won't have ruptured organs because you haven't shown you can do that.

Also his hammer is voice commanded so he wouldn't even be out of the fight if he had ruptured organs. But he doesn't even have that because you lack feats.

My Side

1. So as said before, my team is faster than yours and reacts faster than yours, so we get off the following before you can get much done (assuming you can since you haven't shown proper scans):

A. Locating you

B. Charging and immobilizing you

C. Putting you to sleep/Shutting you down

D. KO'ing you via Steel's hammer that has blitzed much faster beings

2. Your attacks are blocked by us being faster, by Steel being able to teleport his armor at will, and by Static's Forcefields (vs. Hood's bullets).

3. Fight goes like this:

0-1 seconds: We're in the air, and with a birds eye view we locate you. Law has either tried to make a large room (if you can prove he can) or has to make movements and effort to attempt to find us. Hood is moving towards us as well.

1-2 seconds: Law's room is made, Our side is charged, your side is charged, the charges reach you guys, Steel's Hammer has torn through your entire team (due to it's speed), and Law has just now made the move to either teleport to us or try the featless teleport rock thing. Hood is still moving and trying to react at this time. Your team is taken out by the hammer and the charges. Multiple Man too since he's...pretty useless. Fight over.

2-3 seconds: This would be when Law is teleporting stuff and Hood still moving. Static's lightning shuts down your teams Electric impulses however. So you'd lose here even if you miraculously survived second 2. Steel's hammer would still be killing you btw and would've made several more rounds before you can react

This still stands. And you haven't countered anything in there.

Summary

1. I've proven Steel and Static's reaction speeds

2. Law's feat of reacting to meteors that fodder can react to is not impressive and far slower than my team

3. By feats, it takes too long for Law to get up his room and do actions and the fight is already over by then

4. Law also has no proof of teleporting objects into people. When he does mess with people's bodies, it never does lethal damage (as seen when he has the soldier's head) and thus the plan is useless

5. The Hood nor Law are fast enough to react to us, defend from us, or attack us

6. The Hood doesn't get others' feats with the Norn Stones since he's never done them when he had the stones. Also some of those feats weren't even Norn feats

7. No counters to Static's powers, while Static can counter your powers

8. No way to hurt Steel or survive his attacks.

The above still stands.

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#15  Edited By sirfizzwhizz
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Voting for static.

Was explained how he would still be able to effect intangible beings, via manipulating electrons.

Was explained that he is too fast for the opposition.

Law didn't show feats for teleporting objects inside people, the meteor reaction feat was also debunked.

The killer was no feats were shown for how fast law would spawn his room. It was shown that it can be big, but Static was shown to be able to take out Laws team by then.

I do believe Static was acting WAY out of character here, but Law didn't mention that fact.