Punisher vs Ninjak

Punisher vs Ninjak

Setting

- Both are given basic info on the other (weaponry, Punishers military background, Ninjaks MI6 background, ect).

- With this information they have 24 hours to gather suitable resources, research, and plan for the fight.

- Both do not start the fight with the intention to kill, but will bring both lethal and non-lethal gear.

- In character.

- Ninjaks classic and current feats are applicable.

Location

Who takes it?

@nickzambuto@jashro44@pokeysteve@jonny_anonymous@allstarsuperman@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek

I think this is a good mix of Valiant and Punisher fans. Feel free to kickstart the thread.

What are Ninjaks prep feats like?

I still havent read old Ninjak yet, and his XO Manowar and Unity feats arent that impressive.

If I get the chance I'll dig through his classic run, although back then a good part of his feats were in random situations he hadn't prepped for. I've not been keeping up to date with Unity Ninjak but in his first appearance in the reboot, he managed to knock out and capture X-O Manowar. He also, with the aid of X-O Manowar, stormed the MI6 base which had been infiltrated by vine aliens impersonating British agents.

I can't recall prep feats for him like Punisher specifically prepping for Daredevil, Wolverine and Spider-Man, but he might have some I don't know about.

You don't call jumping out of a plane thousands of feet in the air alongside various cargo, jumping from box to box while free falling with ease, impressive?

Well taking down XO is pretty impressive. He'll win head on, all though if Frank uses his prep efficiently he should win unless Ninjak can match punisher with prep then it comes back to a head on fight.

Eh.. it was an alright feat. He was out of armor and wasn't expecting confrontation. He basically stealth-tranqulized him from what I remember. So I would say that Punisher is better with prep by some margin, but Ninjak does have a stealth advantage. Then again Punisher is liable to bring some NVG's.

Epic fight or what?

@i_like_swords: Yea its a pretty tough fight. Not sure who wins.

Okay yeah, I do remember thinking thats badass, but I think Punisher would win from my very limited knowledge.

@i_like_swords: What book does Ninjak feature in? Never heard of him but he looks pretty cool.

@pokeysteve:

Ninjak Old 90s Valiant

Unity New Valiant series

Ninjak, highly skilled at armed and unarmed combat, big stealth advantage, and technology(Nanites, tracking tech, Hi-tech shurikens), unless The Punisher has some counter to the Nano tracking tech I don's see the Punisher winning.

Based on what I've read from Manowar, as well as my CaV with you, ILS....I'd probably give it to Punisher.

For one, I think it's safe to say that Punisher has more prep feats as well as more resources to draw on. Even in terms of both Classic and Reboot Ninjak, I can't really think of any instances where Colin would show anything that qualifies as impressive prep. It's kinda implied that he's a seasoned operative, but with no showings, it's iffy. On the flipside, we've seen Punisher prep numerous times before getting into a fight (e.g. Dark Reign).

Then there's also the large volume of resources that Punisher can bring to this battle, especially given the prep time. Since there's no 'Standard Gear' limitation; he could be packing weaponry like the Satan Claw, freeze gun, Ant-Man helmet, vaporizing pistol, Pumpkin Bombs, Doc Ock arms, the exoskeleton...all gear that gives him a variety of tactical options to either Incap or kill Ninjak. I'm not saying he'll bring everything (in-character Frank is hardly gonna do that against a peak-human), but there's nothing stopping Punisher from preparing a few goodies to tip things in his favor. Assuming he still has these, that is.

And in overall terms of physicals, Punisher still holds the edge in a lot of respects. Granted, Ninjak is probably more acrobatic and stealthier, but Frank is no chump himself. Frank's capable of dodging bullets just as easily - and he's also displayed a far higher degree of raw strength, pain tolerance (Daken, anyone?), as well as fighting skill (judging by his encounters against skilled opponents like Daredevil and Spidey, all who have numerous feats, unlike many of Ninjak's foes).

Another factor to point out is that the battlefield actually plays to Frank's advantage - assuming they start off on opposite ends of the road. In a tight corridor like that, Ninjak's agility is walled in to a single path, making it easier for Punisher to fire on him. And while Ninjak is agile - Frank has a pretty solid record of tagging fast opponents (e.g. the famous Burnout speedster example). I suppose one could argue that Ninjak could just as easily fire back with his coins, but remember, it's a lot easier to pull a trigger than to reach for coins and throw them by hand. I'd say Frank has a decent chance of tagging him.

All in all, Punisher for the majority.

@allstarsuperman: Awesome, thanks.

Read unity and manowar

dude has better tech, he will behead frank

I recommend you start reading from his reboot in X-O Manowar. Its a good way to really introduce you to him. Then if that works out, either start following unity or pick up his classic run at your leisure.

Edit: Accidental rant ahead, read at your own risk

Prep does go to Punisher, but a couple few things

- Colin had a bulletproof suit in his classic run. I'm not quite sure how durable his current suit is but, given the prep time, he may be able to acquire one. Just a thought.

- You sure Punisher would bring weapons of that caliber? I thought they were more like trophies (I've never seen him use them during a fight he prepped for). All I know is he brings "mercy bullets" for fights like this.

- Colin does have some nifty gear of his own that he could bring. Flash bang coins, explosive coins, tranquilizers and even his regular coins which are capable of cutting through steel swords and killing men in one hit. If Ninjak was so inclined he could really injure Frank with one of them, but having said all that, the same could easily be said for gun-toting Punisher.

- Ninjak may be aware of what Punisher can bring to the fight. He's a computer expert in his classic run and probably still is in reboot. I could see him hacking police, FBI, or even shield databases to get information about Punisher. If he could get an idea of some of his conquests then it might make the fight a bit easier for him. Eg he may not be as surprised if Punisher brings out a freeze gun.

- I would likely give strength to Frank, in grappling contest, and even in striking. But Ninjak is no chump, being able to crack a bulletproof windshield while the car he's trapped in is slowly filling up with water. He's not quite punching through bazooka proof glass but he's still doing more damage in one punch than a bullet could do.

- Durability goes to Frank hands down. Fighting skill however I could give the nod to Ninjak. Even if it's only slight. He clearly has a pretty in-depth martial arts knowledge if he's able to observe a nerve strike, and then counter it with his own nerve pinch, which subsequently knocks out his opponent (remember our CAV). Also, there was another fight where he went up against this massive superhuman mutant freak-of-nature type thing. It stated he had targetted every nerve striking in it's body and it wouldn't go down. That, and given his general reputation (the deadliest weapon user on Valiant earth) and his training (ninja training in Japan since he was a teenager, British secret service until eventually becoming the best), it could be fair to give him at least equal respect in fighting skill. I feel like he has better implied training, statements/reputation and general technical skill showings, while Frank has actually gone out and fought credible opponents, which Ninjak is sadly lacking.

- You're right about the battlefield. Although the way I see it, either Frank or Ninjak cut the lights (like they've both done before), and then the fight truly starts. Frank would have a much better time tagging Ninjak in this battlefield, but if Ninjak hopped into a building he could play hit-n-run like he should against such a good marksman. And about the coins - while Frank obviously has much better reaction speed, Ninjak has beaten opponents to trigger numerous times, even when he is in their sight and they're ready to fire. I don't Ninjak would just get pepper sprayed by Punisher but he'd definitely catch something.

Wow.. didn't mean for that to trail on. But yeah, just my thoughts.

@i_like_swords No problem, ILS, I enjoy a lively debate. Regarding your points:

- I did stumble upon some wikis referencing to Classic Ninjak having a Kevlar-lined suit; but I don't recall there being such a feat in our CaV (which, really, is the main source for my knowledge on Classic Ninjak's capabilities). Has the suit actually been shown to be bulletproof in the classic run, and to what extent of damage was it shown taking, if so? I'm just curious because if we work under the assumption that the suit is standard Kevlar, to my knowledge, that type of material is only bullet-resistant. I.e. Kevlar is only effective against small-arms fire, and even then it only prevents penetration; as the resulting impact could still cause injury and bruising. I don't think a Kevlar-lined costume is going to stand up well to the rifles Frank usually packs.

- Well as I mentioned in my first post, I'm not saying that Punisher will bring everything in his arsenal. But what I am pointing out is that throughout his career, Frank is shown to have access to a wide and varied arsenal that doesn't just include conventional firearms and explosives, but also what one could term 'superhuman weaponry'. He definitely has a bigger selection of toys than Ninjak to choose from, and he has shown usage of them for prepping (Frank's war against Norman is probably the biggest example; he brought Pumpkin Bombs & repulsors for that). Now, I'm not saying that just because he has all these fancy toys, means that he's going to use them all against peak-human Ninjak. I'm not saying, "Punisher's gonna bring the Satan Claw! It KOed Rhino! He'll use it to one-shot Ninjak!" But the point I'm making here is that a more varied/powerful arsenal = more combat options = better use of the prep time.

- Beyond his blades, Ninjak's predominant secondary weapon seems to be his coins. I'm not arguing they're not a threat - based on the feats, Ninjak can pull off some pretty killer moves with those. But I did mention that factoring in the nature of the battlefield; the scenario favors Frank's guns as opposed to Ninjak's melee. And projectiles fired mechanically are always going to travel faster, and be fired at a faster rate, than coins thrown by hand. Ninjak may be able to pull off impressive stunts with his coins against featless henchmen, but how well can he do them when he's being bombarded with a barrage of accurate gunfire?

- Mm, this is a good point to raise, Ninjak is a hacker. I think the point's somewhat debatable still, because who knows how much intel about Punisher is actually on-file. More to the point; who knows how much of said intel is actually accurate. E.g. a police report states that an eyewitness claimed Punisher used a 'yellow laser' one time. Ninjak preps for this by bringing (let's say) freeze grenades. Turns out it wasn't a laser...but an Iron Man repulsor, a kinetic blast that won't be stopped by ice at all...

- Duly noted, but as you said, Frank's strength feats speak for themselves.

- Mm, I think you might have misunderstood my post a little here. I don't mean 'fighting skill' in terms of HTH and MA capability. I'm not talking that sort of technical skill. What I mean is, quite literally, 'ability to fight in a battle'. I.e. the ability to think on your feet in a fight, to use whatever means you have to win, to be able to press your advantages and capitalize on your enemy's weaknesses. I think a lot of Ninjak's skill level seems to be based on his reputation, as well as statements about his training. That's not to say he's incompetent, but just that, as you and I both pointed out - Frank actually has showings against credible opponents. I mean just look at the Daken fight alone. Sure, Frank got killed, but considering how much his foe outclassed him by? And the fact that he was already injured from fighting Osborn's goons, Hood, & Hammer? He still put up a hell of a fight.

- Ah, well, this was actually a point that I wasn't too sure on. I just assumed that the two could only engage on the street, and that access to the buildings wasn't allowed. But in response to your strategy; I don't think the whole lights-out ploy would necessarily work. For one, according to the picture, it looks like a lot of buildings have their indoor lights on. I can see a coin or bullet killing a street light, but how would they do that to a row of houses? Short of an EMP anyway, which I don't think either one has been shown packing. And I question the stealth approach too. It's not like in a warehouse, where Ninjak has plenty of space to prowl in the rafters while Frank is on the ground. We're talking what looks like the tight inside confines of a narrow house. I don't think either character would benefit from that, really. And yeah, I'm not saying Ninjak would get peppered with rounds, but I think Punisher has a decent chance of tagging him good.