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#1 Edited by Army2442 (1847 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: random encounter in a abandoned warehouse

Round 2: 2 days of prep for each in the middle of an abandoned new york

morals are off

Edit: standard equipment for both

#2 Posted by Nefarious (22869 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: I'd say Punisher. 
 
Round 2: Eh, Punisher.

#3 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

Equipment?

#4 Posted by acer51 (2248 posts) - - Show Bio
@_Black said:


                   

Equipment?



                   

               

When the thread gives no information on equipment its always asumed to be standerd gear. 
  
Its too close for me though i cant decide. 
 
I guess i'll argue for Hawkeye though.
#5 Posted by Sufferthorn (1738 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher wins......No doubt in my mind. He is more ruthless than Hawkeye could ever be.

I'm sure Hawkeye could make it hard for him with 2 days prep, but not to the extent that Punisher can.

#6 Posted by PikminMania (4613 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Hawkeye

Round 2: Punisher

#7 Posted by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sufferthorn said:

Punisher wins......No doubt in my mind. He is more ruthless than Hawkeye could ever be.

I'm sure Hawkeye could make it hard for him with 2 days prep, but not to the extent that Punisher can.

Actually in a random encounter I'd pick Hawkeye all day. It isn't like he's so much better than Frank in stats, but he sure as hell is a better marksman and probably has better hand-to-hand going for him. Frank has the better arsenal, but I'd still give it to Hawkeye because he deals with superhuman threats alot more often than Frank and so I'd say he's got a sharper edge even if he isn't dealing with someone that out classes him in every way. To be honest I don't think this comes down to ruthlessness at all. Clint could put Frank down without killing him and that's pretty much Clint's line. He's not a murder, but he's also not a pacifist.

With prep I actually give it to Frank. Punisher is a beast with prep. He isn't Batman or Doom, but he's no joke either and I could see him coming up with something really nasty for Clint. Of course I still wouldn't count him out, but I think Punisher takes the second round.

Now that said, I'd like a location and starting conditions because in a fight like this that's gonna be really important.

#8 Posted by Sufferthorn (1738 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soulstealer:

I agree. I want the conditions as well.

#9 Posted by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soulstealer: @Sufferthorn: Locations are provided in the OP. (round 1 is a warehouse, round 2 is New York, NY) Starting distance would be nice, but it's fair to assume if that's not provided it's a block (roughly 200 ft) and both are near cover.

Staff
#10 Posted by acer51 (2248 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sufferthorn said:


                   

Punisher wins......No doubt in my mind. He is more ruthless than Hawkeye could ever be.

I'm sure Hawkeye could make it hard for him with 2 days prep, but not to the extent that Punisher can.



                   

               

Even in an abandond warehouse? a Warehouse has lots of high vantage point and dark corner for Hawkeye to sneak in. 
 
In round two i think that there would be a lot of traps Hawkeye would set, Punisher would probably just bring lots of awsome guns.
#11 Posted by Sufferthorn (1738 posts) - - Show Bio

@acer51:

I doubt that Punisher wouldn't set traps.......or use Vantage points. Remember that he is a tactically aware opponent as Hawkeye is.

#12 Posted by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@Soulstealer: @Sufferthorn: Locations are provided in the OP. (round 1 is a warehouse, round 2 is New York, NY) Starting distance would be nice, but it's fair to assume if that's not provided it's a block (roughly 200 ft) and both are near cover.

Ah, thanks. I didn't notice it. And thanks for the starting distance.

#13 Edited by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soulstealer: You're welcome.

@Sufferthorn: @acer51: Prep time means they have time to research who they're fighting and prepare with gear. Unless otherwise stated, they likely do not have early access to the location to set up traps.

Staff
#14 Posted by Sufferthorn (1738 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n:

I'm well aware what prep is......What Acer51 is suggesting, if i'm not mistaken, is that Hawkeye would remain in a stealthy condition to ambush Punisher. Though i doubt he would set up any sort of sophisticated trap. Thats just not Clints style from what i've seen. Punisher is more likely to do that.

#15 Posted by acer51 (2248 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sufferthorn said:


                   

@acer51:

I doubt that Punisher wouldn't set traps.......or use Vantage points. Remember that he is a tactically aware opponent as Hawkeye is.



                   

               

Does Punisher still have his his War van?  
 
But i think Hawkeye is a little stealthier then Punisher, i bet he'd get the drop on him with a trick arrow or somthing.
#16 Posted by entropy_aegis (15432 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher wins both rounds.

Online
#17 Posted by batkevin74 (11196 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 in warehouse: Hawkeye spots Punisher going into a warehouse. Hawkeye follows. Punisher see's Hawkeye and using a shotgun fires a couple of rounds into Hawkeye's thighs. Standing over Hawkeye, Frank glares at him "Go back to your mansion!" and knocks Hawkeye out with the butt of the shotgun. Or as you said morals off, puts a round through his face

Round 2 with prep: Hawkeye corners Frank in the warehouse, Frank's got a few arrows in him and feeling woozy. Frank gives Hawkeye a nod and then blows up the warehouse! Frank is in the 4x4 safe zone, Hawkeye gets blown up. Frank then puts two in the head & one in the chest to make sure after digging himself out

#18 Posted by Beerhappy (283 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 & 2 - PUNISHER

Hawkeye is pimp and all, but their is no way in hell he could even stand in the same room as the punisher. Punisher is a hardened viet nam special forces commando. And Hawk served in the avengers wih a team beating down the bad guys. In a team beating down bad guys. In a team beating bad guys. Yes I said that 3x. Punisher is the lone wolf, and hunts people for a living, Hawk is awesome with the bow and is cunning, but he does not hunt anyone for a living. One on one - no chance in hell.

#19 Posted by Edgeworth_11 (4655 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher both rounds no problem.

#20 Edited by krilling (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher takes both rounds. He is a better combatant (one of the best soldiers in the MU).

#21 Posted by Lion_Heart22 (444 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye. If he could be taken down by mere guns then he'd be a long forgotten hero by now. He's much better at hand to hand too, IMHO. And with prep time, Hawkeye can bring arrows to nullify all of Frank's weaponry, he's done it before.

#22 Posted by cascadeking09 (6698 posts) - - Show Bio

@PikminMania said:

Round 1: Hawkeye

Round 2: Punisher

This, but I'm not 100%

#23 Posted by MrBigBalls (236 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher takes both rounds

#24 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@PikminMania said:

Round 1: Hawkeye

Round 2: Punisher

#25 Posted by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lion_Heart22 said:

He's much better at hand to hand too, IMHO.

I disagree. Frank definitely has more impressive hand-to-hand encounters than Clint. More skilled? Perhaps, but he hasn't had the feats to actually show it. Which is unfortunate for Clint.

Regardless, I think Hawkeye definitely takes round 1.

Staff
#26 Posted by ThexX (1576 posts) - - Show Bio

@Edgeworth_11 said:

Punisher both rounds no problem.

#27 Posted by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThexX: False!

Staff
#28 Posted by madrid_san (1803 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher is a strategic genius, much better hand to hand if it comes to that, and more deadly arsenal. he takes both rounds easily.

#29 Posted by GhostRider29 (2671 posts) - - Show Bio

I've lost so much respect for the Punisher when I read a comic with him getting his ass kicked by Kingpin. But I still say Punisher takes this both rounds. He barely had morals to begin with. Lol

#30 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider29 said:

I've lost so much respect for the Punisher when I read a comic with him getting his ass kicked by Kingpin. But I still say Punisher takes this both rounds. He barely had morals to begin with. Lol

Classic or current?

#31 Posted by GhostRider29 (2671 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt: What? Punisher has never really changed. Lol It would be classified as Classic I guess? It was an older comic.

#32 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider29 said:

@BringnIt: What? Punisher has never really changed. Lol It would be classified as Classic I guess? It was an older comic.

Kingpin has, and used to tangle with spidey and DD. Kingpin was a besst.

#33 Posted by Morpheus_ (29696 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt: Frank vs Fisk was an early 90s fight, if memory serves right.
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#34 Posted by GhostRider29 (2671 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

@GhostRider29 said:

@BringnIt: What? Punisher has never really changed. Lol It would be classified as Classic I guess? It was an older comic.

Kingpin has, and used to tangle with spidey and DD. Kingpin was a besst.

True, but I mean I've always thought the Punisher would be able to hang with Batman, Jason Todd, Captain America, and all of those. After how badly he lost to Kingpin, without even being able to do ANYTHING to him, I lost some respect. I realize that he's not as great of a fighter as I thought he was. But I still believe he's higher than Hawkeye.

#35 Posted by Army2442 (1847 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider29 said:

@BringnIt said:

@GhostRider29 said:

@BringnIt: What? Punisher has never really changed. Lol It would be classified as Classic I guess? It was an older comic.

Kingpin has, and used to tangle with spidey and DD. Kingpin was a besst.

True, but I mean I've always thought the Punisher would be able to hang with Batman, Jason Todd, Captain America, and all of those. After how badly he lost to Kingpin, without even being able to do ANYTHING to him, I lost some respect. I realize that he's not as great of a fighter as I thought he was. But I still believe he's higher than Hawkeye.

I think that's PIS because punisher beat people better than kingpin numerous times.

#36 Posted by batkevin74 (11196 posts) - - Show Bio

@

#37 Posted by Kurupted13 (235 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank takes this.

#38 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher, 7/10 first round, 9/10 second round.

#39 Edited by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl:Round 1: I disagree. I think Clint's assortment of arrows and uncanny accuracy would be too much.

Why do you think Frank Castle would defeat a bloodlusted Hawkeye?

Staff
#40 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tz: Because he's the frakking Pwnisher. He'll tank the arrows if he has to, and then gun him down with an assault rifle. Punisher > Arrows, Hawkeye

#41 Edited by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: But he's the frakking Hawkeye. While I think Punisher will make this tough, he's not immune to an arrow to the head, neck, upper chest, or the variety of trick arrows coming his way (explosive). And while you can most definitely say the same for Hawkeye, my reasoning is Clint is more accurate, and therefore more dangerous with morals off in this situation.

Staff
#42 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tz: Exactly HOW much effort did it take to avoid an arrow to the knee joke just there? On a scale of 1 to 10? :P Anyway, yes, enough arrows will bring him down. But Punisher is quick and an amazing shot, and more durable. He won't stand there and become a pincushion, he'll be filling Clint with so much lead he can finally get that part-time job as a pencil. I think Frank will get badly wounded -- I just think Hawkeye will be the first to die.

#43 Posted by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: 0, I'm sick of those jokes :D

Castle certainly is a superb shot, there's no denying that. He's no durable (nor are any non-powered humans), he just tolerates pain very well. Frank will of course be on the move, but nothing he has done implies he's too fast or agile for a no morals Hawkeye to tag. But at the end of the day, Hawkeye has the better accuracy shots, is well armed with a variety of weapons, and because of that I see it as being logically more likely for Hawkeye to land the killing shot first. Frank of course can take plenty of wins too, but I see it as favoring Hawkeye thanks to the edge in accuracy.

Staff
#44 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, agree to disagree then, I suppose. Frank is not only a great shot but kinda has a thing for full-auto weapons -- concentrated fire from an expert marksman is hard to not get killed by. And that's if it's a straight shoot-out. If they're using tactics or playing hide and seek, then I think Frank will win even harder. Just my opinion though.

#45 Posted by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: That's fine.

But, just for the rest, here's why I think Hawkeye takes round 1:

  • While Frank is an excellent shot, he doesn't have feats on par with Hawkeye's. Sure, Frank has automatic weapons, but that has never deterred Clint's performance. Superior accuracy is pivotal with an ample starting distance, especially if....
  • Frank lacks the mobility to be too challenging of a shot. This isn't to discredit his own speed, it's just pointing out a fact. He's not too hard for Clint to tag and dare I say it, Clint has better agility feats.
  • Clint's assortment of arrows provides more to offer, potentially incapacitating Frank or forcing him out of cover.
  • No morals means Clint is going lethal with his shots. See above for reasons as to why I think that's important.
Staff
#46 Posted by --Anubis-- (661 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye definitly takes 1 round, in a stomp actually

round 2 goes to Punisher 6/10

#47 Posted by Beerhappy (283 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, people still thinking you can bring a bow to a gun fight. Look you can bicker all you want - but in the end the gun will always win. But I know we have die-hard crazy fans of hawkeye that are clouded in reason. Im just gonna put it in a nutshell. When people dueled for life or death in the old west, did any of them ever bust out a bow? Where said bows available, yes. So, why we debating?

#48 Posted by k4tzm4n (34887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Beerhappy: It's just too bad this is a comic book and not the real world. Characters like Ollie, Clint, and a few others do bring bows to gun fights and do win.

Staff
#49 Posted by batkevin74 (11196 posts) - - Show Bio

@Beerhappy: Because this is comic books and debating makes it fun!

Actually that'd be a good mythbusters/real world test. A side-by-side gun range where a guy with a gun quick draws vs a guy with a bow. Rig up the sensors and see who wins (well it's the gun) but whether the responding arrow also delivers a kill shot meaning that the contest would end in a draw, a messy messy blood soaked draw

But yes Punisher wins, my response is on page 1

#50 Posted by mgc500 (49 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 could go either way. I might even say Hawkeye takes majority. Round 2 is Frank all the way. He has prep against a guy armed with a bow. I know it's a comic (and I happen to like Hawkeye), but gun range > than bow range unless Frank has decided to just pack a pistol for the day (unlikely). Hawkeye's agility feats wont matter cuz he won't even know a shots been fired until he's already dead. Frank puts one in Clint's head from concealment 9.999/10 times for the win.