#1 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules

  • Morals on and in character
  • Start 50 ft. apart
  • Standard equipment
  • Random encounter
  • All Versions open to discussion

Setting

The entire Daily Bugle building (including rooftops)

Contestants

Punisher & Hawkeye

VS

Deadshot & Green Arrow

#2 Posted by dondave (38821 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: I think Deadshot is a quicker draw and a better shot, so Punisher should be taken care of very quickly, and I cant really decide between Green Arrow and Hawkeye; so I say Arrow keeps Hawkeye preoccupied and Deadshot and Green Arrow team up on him

#3 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadshot > The Punisher. Hawkeye > Green Arrow. Deadshot > Hawkeye. Team 2 wins.

#4 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: I think Deadshot is a quicker draw and a better shot, so Punisher should be taken care of very quickly, and I cant really decide between Green Arrow and Hawkeye; so I say Arrow keeps Hawkeye preoccupied and Deadshot and Green Arrow team up on him

I don't think Punisher would be such a non-factor. He has dodged bullets before. and even held his own against Daredevil, Spider-Man, and Wolverine. Also, even if some bullets hit Frank, it wouldn't instantly put him down, since in Dark Reign he was sliced countless times by Daken and kept fighting, albeit he lost in the end.

#5 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Deadshot > The Punisher. Hawkeye > Green Arrow. Deadshot > Hawkeye. Team 2 wins.

Hmm... I don't know about that. Deadshot surpasses Punisher in terms of accuracy, but Punisher has his own impressive arsenal of weaponry as well, and is better at hand-to-hand combat.

As for Green Arrow and Hawkeye, it's always unclear. But who says it has to be Punisher vs. Deadshot and Green Arrow vs. Hawkeye? The results can mix up a bit more.

#6 Posted by RubyVisor (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadshot solos.

#7 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@RubyVisor said:

Deadshot solos.

Um... no he doesn't.

#8 Posted by Strafe Prower (11888 posts) - - Show Bio

There is plenty of cover in this building. There is no reason for anyone to assume that Deadshot solos.

#9 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower said:

There is plenty of cover in this building. There is no reason for anyone to assume that Deadshot solos.

Exactly. Deadshot would have trouble with either Punisher or Hawkeye alone. It makes no sense how Deadshot would solo.

Anyways, what are your thoughts on the battle?

#10 Posted by Strafe Prower (11888 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: I think that Punisher is probably the best martial artist here, with Deadshot being the worst. On the flip side, I say that Deadshot is the best marksman with Punisher being the worst. With that being said, the margins in which they are superior are not that great, so there is no stomp regardless of how you look at it.

I think Team 1 will win to be honest. Between the strategic minds of Frank and Clint, I think they will manage the win. Both are agile enough to get to cover and slowly move their way towards their opponent while shooting cover fire. Clint can curve arrows, use anything around him, and and is extremely accurate making him a hard person to take down with cover. Punisher has guns that do not require him to aim for the cover fire, which makes executing the plan much easier.

Once they manage to close in on the opponents, they will take the match. Punisher will beat either Ollie or Deadshot in hand 2 hand combat, and Clint can beat Deadshot as well. I see them taking it after a good fight.

#11 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: I think that Punisher is probably the best martial artist here, with Deadshot being the worst. On the flip side, I say that Deadshot is the best marksman with Punisher being the worst. With that being said, the margins in which they are superior are not that great, so there is no stomp regardless of how you look at it.

I think Team 1 will win to be honest. Between the strategic minds of Frank and Clint, I think they will manage the win. Both are agile enough to get to cover and slowly move their way towards their opponent while shooting cover fire. Clint can curve arrows, use anything around him, and and is extremely accurate making him a hard person to take down with cover. Punisher has guns that do not require him to aim for the cover fire, which makes executing the plan much easier.

Once they manage to close in on the opponents, they will take the match. Punisher will beat either Ollie or Deadshot in hand 2 hand combat, and Clint can beat Deadshot as well. I see them taking it after a good fight.

Excellent analysis!

However, if Punisher provides cover fire by spraying and praying, there is also a possibility that Deadshot and Green Arrow could snipe Frank with the combined forces of a hail of bullets and arrows, which will be vastly more difficult for Punisher to dodge.

Another note is that Deadshot may be even more accurate then you think.

Even though Deadshot is in character, he probably won't pull his shots on Frank Castle. If he does though (for some strange reason) then I could see the plan going smoothly.

#12 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2796 posts) - - Show Bio

Team one FTW,,this is more than a battle of marksmanship,,there is lots of cover that IMO team one will utilize to their advantage..tem one possesses better strategists and better h2h fighters..though it might be close I would bet the farm on frank and Clint anyday...not to mention punisher carries an impressive arsenal beyond guns..

#13 Posted by mischief666 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

In straight match-ups I say ollie and hawk-eye shoot arrows at each other, flip a coin that one hits first. Frankly any person who thinks they can actually argue who is better of the two is kidding themselves. While I love both character (or at least before the 52 ruined Ollie) I think their skills and feats are clearly comparable.

So the winner I think will be determined by the partner they have.

Deadshot vs punisher, Deadshot has the aim, punisher has the crazy.

Put the team together though I have to say I think punisher and hawk eye. I think the problem is that to me the punisher has to many x factors. He can shake things up in his environment. While Deadshot is a great assassin I fear that the chaos and destruction of the punisher seems more advantageous in this environment.

#14 Posted by Cole_Mercer (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@RubyVisor said:

Deadshot solos.

Pretty much.

#15 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cole_Mercer said:

@RubyVisor said:

Deadshot solos.

Pretty much.

Not so much. I fail to see how Floyd defeats both Punisher and Hawkeye at the same time.

#16 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher blows up the whole building.

That is his morals and in character. >_>

#17 Posted by Strafe Prower (11888 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: I agree that if they both put the focus on Punisher, they might be able to pick him off. At the same time, that lets Hawkeye hit either his opponents. I don't see Deadshot or Green Arrow being agile enough to dodge multiple arrows of various sorts (Explosive, Putty, Net, Taser, etc.) He has hit targets with much more agility than that. They have to keep a constant focus on him, or that could be the end.

I understand his accuracy. I've read a good number of his appearances and I have seen all his scans from k4tzm4n through debate. I understand he is extremely accurate. I also understand his weapon is much harder to dodge than say an arrow. However, having cover, a small area, and great acrobatics/agility makes it hard for even the greatest marksman. Especially considering that both have dodged bullets when the shooter had the jump on them.

#18 Posted by jashro44 (23869 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cole_Mercer said:

@RubyVisor said:

Deadshot solos.

Pretty much.

Deadshot might be the MVP here but he wont solo. Both hawkeye and punisher are quite talented in there own right.

#19 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic said:

Punisher blows up the whole building.

That is his morals and in character. >_>

I'm confident Deadshot has thermal imaging in his helmet, so he could find out where explosive devices are.

@Strafe Prower said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: I agree that if they both put the focus on Punisher, they might be able to pick him off. At the same time, that lets Hawkeye hit either his opponents. I don't see Deadshot or Green Arrow being agile enough to dodge multiple arrows of various sorts (Explosive, Putty, Net, Taser, etc.) He has hit targets with much more agility than that. They have to keep a constant focus on him, or that could be the end.

I understand his accuracy. I've read a good number of his appearances and I have seen all his scans from k4tzm4n through debate. I understand he is extremely accurate. I also understand his weapon is much harder to dodge than say an arrow. However, having cover, a small area, and great acrobatics/agility makes it hard for even the greatest marksman. Especially considering that both have dodged bullets when the shooter had the jump on them.

It may be harder for Hawkeye to hit his opponents if they are in hiding and snipe Frank as attempts to cover Clint. However, Punisher does have high pain tolerance and is extremely durable for a human, and nothing short of a head injury will put him down in less than a minute. However, in a building with lots of furniture and offices, it may still be too short of a time for Hawkeye to locate his enemies.

#20 Posted by Strafe Prower (11888 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Most people aren't aware, but Hawkeye's senses are extremely strong. He has shot opponents behind him when they were entering the room. He has also smelt opponents over 100yds away by the incense they were wearing.

I'm not saying he has superhuman senses, he doesn't, but they are better than that of an average human by a decent margin. I have no reason to believe he wouldn't be able to find his opponents when they are firing at his partner.

#21 Edited by MysteriousUsername (1210 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't Green Arrow have sonic arrows as standard equipment(I'm not sure how often he uses then so correct me if I'm wrong here.).

Hawkeye's trick arrows could also put a new spin on this one depending on what counts as "standard". (Not too knowledgeable on him either so if anyone knows his standard stuff that'd be great.)

Either way if they're not restricted to regular arrows then they can both turn the tide in their own way, I can see Hawkeye giving his team a big edge given he's a bit more morally loose than Green Arrow.

#22 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Most people aren't aware, but Hawkeye's senses are extremely strong. He has shot opponents behind him when they were entering the room. He has also smelt opponents over 100yds away by the incense they were wearing.

I'm not saying he has superhuman senses, he doesn't, but they are better than that of an average human by a decent margin. I have no reason to believe he wouldn't be able to find his opponents when they are firing at his partner.

Hmm.. I agree about his senses, but they it may be more difficult with panicked civilians rushing everywhere (most probably with strong cologne).

Nonetheless, I could see this going either way and your statements are all mostly correct, albeit with some minor, but inevitable flaws, such as mine.

#23 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@MysteriousUsername said:

Doesn't Green Arrow have sonic arrows as standard equipment(I'm not sure how often he uses then so correct me if I'm wrong here.).

Hawkeye's trick arrows could also put a new spin on this one depending on what counts as "standard". (Not too knowledgeable on him either so if anyone knows his standard stuff that'd be great.)

Either way if they're not restricted to regular arrows then they can both turn the tide in their own way, I can see Hawkeye giving his team a big edge given he's a bit more morally loose than Green Arrow.

I believe both Green Arrow and Hawkeye carry a vast arsenal of trick arrows, although they are inconsistent throughout comics. It really depends on the situation and writer.

#24 Posted by MysteriousUsername (1210 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

Could you give the specifics for this scenario or are they just limited to normal arrows?

#25 Posted by Strafe Prower (11888 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Could be, but this is the guy who lead various teams in the battlefield, including villains. He is quite used to the chaos of battle.

Thank you. It feels good to debate again. It's been ages.

#26 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower:

Yeah I agree as well, but he doesn't exactly have a highly cooperative person aiding him in this scenario xD

And yeah me too. I haven't debated in a while. It's fun though.

@MysteriousUsername said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

Could you give the specifics for this scenario or are they just limited to normal arrows?

They are not limited to normal arrows as they have all their standard equipment (what they usually carry around them). The Archers are bound to have at least a handful of trick arrows.

#27 Posted by MysteriousUsername (1210 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

Yeah, but I don't know enough about either to figure out the most likely trick arrows to enter this scenario.

Besides the boxing glove arrow that is.

#28 Posted by Strafe Prower (11888 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Agreed.

True that.

#29 Posted by iHailCarlo (94 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow and Deadshot win! Albeit not easily.

#30 Posted by MysteriousUsername (1210 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Punisher and Hawkeye can work together better than Green Arrow and Deadshot. Add that to the fact that both Punisher and Hawkeye are pretty good at stealth(well Punisher at least, unsure of Hawkeye), I think they can pull out a win so long as Punisher doesn't go berserk or they get spotted when they're between cover positions.

#31 Posted by Praetor_fenix (222 posts) - - Show Bio

At first i thought team 2 stomps! Deadshot is way better than frank! But then i remembered how adaptable and versatile he is, also he is practically impervious to pain and much better under pressure than the other 3. Now i just think it'd be a great fight they're pretty evenly matched. i think 6/10 goes to team 1.

#32 Edited by Cole_Mercer (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@Cole_Mercer said:

@RubyVisor said:

Deadshot solos.

Pretty much.

Deadshot might be the MVP here but he wont solo. Both hawkeye and punisher are quite talented in there own right.

Yeah, but Deadshot is a highly trained assassin before anything. He could stay out of sight & take them out one by one. I mean most assassins are very big on stealth right?

#33 Posted by cuddles666 (310 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

@dondave said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: I think Deadshot is a quicker draw and a better shot, so Punisher should be taken care of very quickly, and I cant really decide between Green Arrow and Hawkeye; so I say Arrow keeps Hawkeye preoccupied and Deadshot and Green Arrow team up on him

I don't think Punisher would be such a non-factor. He has dodged bullets before. and even held his own against Daredevil, Spider-Man, and Wolverine. Also, even if some bullets hit Frank, it wouldn't instantly put him down, since in Dark Reign he was sliced countless times by Daken and kept fighting, albeit he lost in the end.

Agreed. Punisher is also significantly more creative than point-and-click Deadshot, especially if you focus on the Ennis version of Punisher. Punisher takes out sharpshooters like Deadshot every other Tuesday, but Deadshot's never met a man like the Punisher.

As for Hawkeye/Green Arrow. It's a sweat fight and both men have tons of credentials, but even though G.A. stabbed Deathstroke's eye with an arrow once (which was awesome), he hasn't spent half the time on the JLA that Hawkeye's spent on the Avengers. Heck, Hawkeye is about lead his team to victory against a planet full of crazy Marvel robots....after taking down the Earth-666 Undead Avengers with only Captain Britain and Beast as back-up.

So if it's pre-boot Green Arrow, the second fight's close. If he's new52, it's a stomp. Either way, Hawkeye wins that one. TEAM 1 WINS

#34 Posted by jashro44 (23869 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cole_Mercer said:

@jashro44 said:

@Cole_Mercer said:

@RubyVisor said:

Deadshot solos.

Pretty much.

Deadshot might be the MVP here but he wont solo. Both hawkeye and punisher are quite talented in there own right.

Yeah, but Deadshot is a highly trained assassin before anything. He could stay out of sight & take them out one by one. I mean most assassins are very big on stealth right?

I don't recall many stealth feats from deadshot that are that much better than punishers. Punisher and hawkeye are also highly trained as well.

#35 Posted by RubyVisor (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@Cole_Mercer said:

@jashro44 said:

@Cole_Mercer said:

@RubyVisor said:

Deadshot solos.

Pretty much.

Deadshot might be the MVP here but he wont solo. Both hawkeye and punisher are quite talented in there own right.

Yeah, but Deadshot is a highly trained assassin before anything. He could stay out of sight & take them out one by one. I mean most assassins are very big on stealth right?

I don't recall many stealth feats from deadshot that are that much better than punishers. Punisher and hawkeye are also highly trained as well.

I'm surprised people got so offended by that. Deadshot wouldn't be facing Batman, so wouldn't pull his shots, neither Hawkeye or Punisher have enhanced reflexes like Deadshot does. I say it's a no brainer. *shrug* If not, standard equipment for Ollie includes a nuclear warhead arrow. Everyone loses.

#36 Posted by jashro44 (23869 posts) - - Show Bio

@RubyVisor:

I'm surprised people got so offended by that.

No one is offended...

Deadshot wouldn't be facing Batman, so wouldn't pull his shots,

Punisher also pulls his shots against hero's so the same could be said for him.

neither Hawkeye or Punisher have enhanced reflexes like Deadshot does

Deadshot may have better reflex feats but his reflexes are not enhanced.

I say it's a no brainer. *shrug* If not, standard equipment for Ollie includes a nuclear warhead arrow. Everyone loses.

  1. Morals are on and they are in character so Ollie wouldn't use a nuclear warhead arrow
  2. It would be a stalemate if he did since it would likely kill him and deadshot as well unless the blast radius isn't that big.
  3. I never said team 1 would win I was saying deadshot wouldn't solo. And he wont.
#37 Posted by jayskee (1908 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 better and better fighting skill

#38 Posted by RubyVisor (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@RubyVisor:

I'm surprised people got so offended by that.

No one is offended...

Deadshot wouldn't be facing Batman, so wouldn't pull his shots,

Punisher also pulls his shots against hero's so the same could be said for him.

neither Hawkeye or Punisher have enhanced reflexes like Deadshot does

Deadshot may have better reflex feats but his reflexes are not enhanced.

I say it's a no brainer. *shrug* If not, standard equipment for Ollie includes a nuclear warhead arrow. Everyone loses.

  1. Morals are on and they are in character so Ollie wouldn't use a nuclear warhead arrow
  2. It would be a stalemate if he did since it would likely kill him and deadshot as well unless the blast radius isn't that big.
  3. I never said team 1 would win I was saying deadshot wouldn't solo. And he wont.

Oh, yessum mastah, you done did shown me the light. *gets put in proverbial place*

#39 Posted by jobbernos (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2.

#40 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20432 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayskee said:

Team 1 better and better fighting skill

@jobbernos said:

team 2.

Any reasons?