This is the best battle I've seen in a while. Hats off, Ne. Alpha is a monster, but I think Proteus can win. Proteus has extremely powerful telepathy, and he can possess. I'm sure Alpha has the same level of telepathy, though, but I don't know what he can and cannot do. Proteus can warp reality on a small scale, but it's extremely potent, and he can do anything he wants, including tear holes in space and time. Alpha has his work cut out for him, and I don't think he can handle Proteus.
You know what, I take that back. I'm going with Alpha in a HARD CURBSTOMP. I am definitely changing my answer here. Proteus doesn't even come close to Alpha's level, plus Alpha is extremely intelligent. Alpha wins big here.
He's the only mutant in the Marvel Universe, without an aid of a host, parasite, item, artifact or peripheral to control time, space, reality, mind and soul. And he's ever evolving. He is the reason why Magneto is younger than Xavier when Magneto is supposed to be older than Xavier.
I'm sorry, but no mere reality warper is going to beat him.
@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child
He turned Magneto into an infant. Also alternating his mind and soul back into innocence. That wasn't telekinesis. He psionically reversed time against Magneto to physically shift his adult body into an infant, but even before that, Alpha was warping reality at a minimum by turning objects into stuff and some of the X-Men into birds or statues or whatever he did.
@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child
He turned Magneto into an infant. Also alternating his mind and soul back into innocence. That wasn't telekinesis. He psionically reversed time against Magneto to physically shift his adult body into an infant, but even before that, Alpha was warping reality at a minimum by turning objects into stuff and some of the X-Men into birds or statues or whatever he did.
No that isn't time and reality warping. Alpha possessed powerful psiconic capabilities. All of those things you mentioned can be done through matter manipulation or telekinesis on a molecular level.
@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child
He turned Magneto into an infant. Also alternating his mind and soul back into innocence. That wasn't telekinesis. He psionically reversed time against Magneto to physically shift his adult body into an infant, but even before that, Alpha was warping reality at a minimum by turning objects into stuff and some of the X-Men into birds or statues or whatever he did.
No that isn't time and reality warping. Alpha possessed powerful psiconic capabilities. All of those things you mentioned can be done through matter manipulation or telekinesis on a molecular level.
Any power is Psionic. Controlling Magnetism with your thoughts is called Psionically controlling magnetism. Controling weather with thought is psionically controlling the weather. Alpha controlled time against Magneto through his thoughts. If this had been done by mere telekinesis, the infant Magneto would have the mind set of an adult Magneto, but his soul had been reset into innocence. Reality warping is basically reality altering meaning you can make things off of the reality that is already given and provided. That said: Molecule Man is a Reality Warper and so is Alpha.
@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child
He turned Magneto into an infant. Also alternating his mind and soul back into innocence. That wasn't telekinesis. He psionically reversed time against Magneto to physically shift his adult body into an infant, but even before that, Alpha was warping reality at a minimum by turning objects into stuff and some of the X-Men into birds or statues or whatever he did.
No that isn't time and reality warping. Alpha possessed powerful psiconic capabilities. All of those things you mentioned can be done through matter manipulation or telekinesis on a molecular level.
Any power is Psionic. Controlling Magnetism with your thoughts is called Psionically controlling magnetism. Controling weather with thought is psionically controlling the weather. Alpha controlled time against Magneto through his thoughts. If this had been done by mere telekinesis, the infant Magneto would have the mind set of an adult Magneto, but his soul had been reset into innocence. Reality warping is basically reality altering meaning you can make things off of the reality that is already given and provided. That said: Molecule Man is a Reality Warper.
I believe the word for controlling magnetisim via mind is called ferrokinesis.
@tron_bonne: I agree with most of your arguments, however it's totally different to transform someone back to a todler by changing his body structure. You are saying he controlled time to make magneto a baby. As far as I'm concerned, Alpha change magneto due to his telekinesis, not by controlling time.
@tron_bonne: You're reaching and twisting facts out of proportion again. Turning Magneto into an infant can be done through genetic/molecular alteration which either is a separate power he has or can be done through telekinesis. It does not mean he can warp reality unless it was stated on panel. If someone can provide proof of him warping reality, or a bio fine, I'll stand corrected, but I wouldn't take your word for it with your habit of misconstruing facts and things out of proportion like in multiple previous threads.
@texasdeathmatch: It's cause you wish you could be mighty like me. Kidding, I actually almost missed it too, I had to type the ultimate mutant thing and then it showed up.
Rapidly reversing someone's age is not grounds to say they are a reality warper or that they are even the most powerful mutant. Aside from Alpha's title, he has done very little to prove that he is the ultimate mutant.
@Erik: well yeah, it' just a pseudonim, but magneto should have a reason to name alpha like that...
He had a very classic Lex Luthor-like personality back then because that was what sold the whole "Hey kids, this is the bad guy" thing. It is likely he gave Alpha such a title because of the very reason I already suggested. So Magneto could stroke his own ego at his creation while laughing and twisting his long evil mustache (figuratively speaking).
i dont knwo much about alpha, but if when he warps reality it is permanent then that is superior to proteus who (i think) when he warps reality it is only temporary while he is nearby.
@doombolt: He lost that weakness when he merged with Piecemeal. And alpha at least to my knowledge can't warp reality, he's a strong telekine and telepath, he transformed Magneto and the Brotherhood into babies
@tron_bonne: You're reaching and twisting facts out of proportion again. Turning Magneto into an infant can be done through genetic/molecular alteration which either is a separate power he has or can be done through telekinesis. It does not mean he can warp reality unless it was stated on panel. If someone can provide proof of him warping reality, or a bio fine, I'll stand corrected, but I wouldn't take your word for it with your habit of misconstruing facts and things out of proportion like in multiple previous threads.
Thank you that´s exactly my thought. I also think Proteus would win.
@MagneticTempest: I think both have like 5/10 chances to win.
How. Proteus is not infinitely adaptable and self evolved. Alpha has been evolving and adapting since the 70's. 70 +80 + 90 + 2000 + 2010 = 40 years! By now Alpha should be as powerful as Eternity.
@MagneticTempest: I think both have like 5/10 chances to win.
How. Proteus is not infinitely adaptable and self evolved. Alpha has been evolving and adapting since the 70's. 70 +80 + 90 + 2000 + 2010 = 40 years! By now Alpha should be as powerful as Eternity.
Reaching at its finest. The guy's been in what less than 20 comics in 40 years? Kinda hard to make a statement that he's on the level of eternity when he hasn't shown anything for it.
1) None of the feats mentioned for Alpha so far seem like they would be at all difficult for Proteus.
2) Magneto himself is extremely powerful, and it was also explained that Proteus had actually weakened himself by possessing multiple hosts at once. Magneto has also received a number of powers boosts over the decades; current Magneto should be able to trounce any of his pre-90's versions with contemptible ease, and even those early versions was usually strong enough to defeat teams of X-Men and hold off the Avengers.
3) Depends on which characters were present, really. When Proteus fought the X-Men the first time he battled and defeated classic Phoenix, which basically puts him up at Herald level at least. His fight with the New Mutants, X-Factor, and New Warriors wasn't even really a fight, he just played with them for a little while before deciding they lost.
@tron_bonne: You're reaching and twisting facts out of proportion again. Turning Magneto into an infant can be done through genetic/molecular alteration which either is a separate power he has or can be done through telekinesis. It does not mean he can warp reality unless it was stated on panel. If someone can provide proof of him warping reality, or a bio fine, I'll stand corrected, but I wouldn't take your word for it with your habit of misconstruing facts and things out of proportion like in multiple previous threads.
How can telekinesis be used to turn someone into a baby?
@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...
Same way Sersi can change people into pigs and they are for all intents and purposes pigs. Coupled with telepathy you can just erase or re-write the mind so that they are an infant.
@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...
Same way Sersi can change people into pigs and they are for all intents and purposes pigs. Coupled with telepathy you can just erase or re-write the mind so that they are an infant.
I know but does Sersi does it by telekinesis? I've always thought she was a high level matter manipulator...
@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...
Not buying the viability of this concept.
What is the difference between this and matter manipulation?
Nothing really important, is just that telekinesis on a molecular level is like duplicating matter manipulation effects, though differences are not well defined. I have always seen it like matter and energy manipulation are just divisions of telekinesis...
@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...
Same way Sersi can change people into pigs and they are for all intents and purposes pigs. Coupled with telepathy you can just erase or re-write the mind so that they are an infant.
I know but does Sersi does it by telekinesis? I've always thought she was a high level matter manipulator...
No she doesn't, I was just expanding on what you said, high level manipulation of matter whether it's like Sersi or through tk should allow somebody to transform others, having telepathy can also explain how a person can be made a baby or pig completely, without the use of reality warping or time manipulation (in regards to the infant).
Sounds like you guys are confusing telekinesis, matter manipulation, and reality warping as three different powers. All of them are psionic so that means to control with thought. Alpha is a high tier psionic being. He can use thought to PSIONICALLY control energy/matter. He can use his psionic powers to control time, space, energy, matter at a much higher rate and reach than Proteus. Proteus can not warp Mars from Earth. Alpha can warp Mars while he's in the center of a Galaxy during a different time line. The reason why Alpha is not on Earth is because he is higher evolutionary and continues to evolve which Proteus HAS limits.
Realistically, Aphla the Ultimate Mutant is similar to HP Doomsday with the Cosmic Stranger's powers. There is no way in hell, Proteus is above Stranger or anywhere near a well feed Galactus. If you guys say that Proteus can beat Alpha, that's like saying he can beat Karvoc, a Galactus Engine, Abraxus, IGV, The Phoenix Force Unleashed, or Chaos King. And it's obvious that he can not.
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