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#1 Edited by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Who'd win and why?

#2 Posted by Saren (25618 posts) - - Show Bio

Proteus. He can do everything Alpha can do and then some.

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#3 Posted by Killemall (18556 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Proteus. He can do everything Alpha can do and then some.

#4 Posted by MadMattJaspers (148 posts) - - Show Bio

@MadMattJaspers said:

This is the best battle I've seen in a while. Hats off, Ne. Alpha is a monster, but I think Proteus can win. Proteus has extremely powerful telepathy, and he can possess. I'm sure Alpha has the same level of telepathy, though, but I don't know what he can and cannot do. Proteus can warp reality on a small scale, but it's extremely potent, and he can do anything he wants, including tear holes in space and time. Alpha has his work cut out for him, and I don't think he can handle Proteus.

You know what, I take that back. I'm going with Alpha in a HARD CURBSTOMP. I am definitely changing my answer here. Proteus doesn't even come close to Alpha's level, plus Alpha is extremely intelligent. Alpha wins big here.

#5 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio

ALPHA WILL DESTROY PROTEUS! 

 
 
He's the most powerful Mutant there is.  
 

 
AND HE'S IMMORTAL. 
 
 
 
 
  
He's the only mutant in the Marvel Universe, without an aid of a host, parasite, item, artifact or peripheral to control time, space, reality, mind and soul
And he's ever evolving. He is the reason why Magneto is younger than Xavier when Magneto is supposed to be older than Xavier.
 
 
 
I'm sorry, but no mere reality warper is going to beat him. 
#6 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child

#7 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm, who is Alpha?

#8 Posted by KungFu (67 posts) - - Show Bio
@texasdeathmatch: Alpha is a mutant Magneto created with the X-Gene and Celestial tech.
#9 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:

@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child

He turned Magneto into an infant. Also alternating his mind and soul back into innocence. That wasn't telekinesis. He psionically reversed time against Magneto to physically shift his adult body into an infant, but even before that, Alpha was warping reality at a minimum by turning objects into stuff and some of the X-Men into birds or statues or whatever he did.
#10 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@tron_bonne said:

@nekoneko said:

@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child

He turned Magneto into an infant. Also alternating his mind and soul back into innocence. That wasn't telekinesis. He psionically reversed time against Magneto to physically shift his adult body into an infant, but even before that, Alpha was warping reality at a minimum by turning objects into stuff and some of the X-Men into birds or statues or whatever he did.

No that isn't time and reality warping. Alpha possessed powerful psiconic capabilities. All of those things you mentioned can be done through matter manipulation or telekinesis on a molecular level.

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#11 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I know, he can manipulate matter on a molecular level, wich is totally different...

#12 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio
@KungFu said:
@texasdeathmatch: Alpha is a mutant Magneto created with the X-Gene and Celestial tech.
Interesting. Is he a new character or just not well-known, because he doesn't have a page yet, does he?
#13 Edited by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:

@tron_bonne said:

@nekoneko said:

@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child

He turned Magneto into an infant. Also alternating his mind and soul back into innocence. That wasn't telekinesis. He psionically reversed time against Magneto to physically shift his adult body into an infant, but even before that, Alpha was warping reality at a minimum by turning objects into stuff and some of the X-Men into birds or statues or whatever he did.

No that isn't time and reality warping. Alpha possessed powerful psiconic capabilities. All of those things you mentioned can be done through matter manipulation or telekinesis on a molecular level.

Any power is Psionic.  Controlling Magnetism with your thoughts is called Psionically controlling magnetism. Controling weather with thought is psionically controlling the weather. Alpha controlled time against Magneto through his thoughts. If this had been done by mere telekinesis, the infant Magneto would have the mind set of an adult Magneto, but his soul had been reset into innocence. Reality warping is basically reality altering meaning you can make things off of the reality that is already given and provided. That said: Molecule Man is a Reality Warper and so is Alpha.
#14 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9190 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
@god_spawn said:

@tron_bonne said:

@nekoneko said:

@tron_bonne: Sorry for asking byt when has alpha control time or reality? I just recall him turning telekinetically magneto ainto a child

He turned Magneto into an infant. Also alternating his mind and soul back into innocence. That wasn't telekinesis. He psionically reversed time against Magneto to physically shift his adult body into an infant, but even before that, Alpha was warping reality at a minimum by turning objects into stuff and some of the X-Men into birds or statues or whatever he did.

No that isn't time and reality warping. Alpha possessed powerful psiconic capabilities. All of those things you mentioned can be done through matter manipulation or telekinesis on a molecular level.

Any power is Psionic.  Controlling Magnetism with your thoughts is called Psionically controlling magnetism. Controling weather with thought is psionically controlling the weather. Alpha controlled time against Magneto through his thoughts. If this had been done by mere telekinesis, the infant Magneto would have the mind set of an adult Magneto, but his soul had been reset into innocence. Reality warping is basically reality altering meaning you can make things off of the reality that is already given and provided. That said: Molecule Man is a Reality Warper.
I believe the word for controlling magnetisim via mind is called ferrokinesis.
#15 Edited by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@tron_bonne: I agree with most of your arguments, however it's totally different to transform someone back to a todler by changing his body structure. You are saying he controlled time to make magneto a baby. As far as I'm concerned, Alpha change magneto due to his telekinesis, not by controlling time.

#16 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: Alpha the ultimate mutant

@tron_bonne: You're reaching and twisting facts out of proportion again. Turning Magneto into an infant can be done through genetic/molecular alteration which either is a separate power he has or can be done through telekinesis. It does not mean he can warp reality unless it was stated on panel. If someone can provide proof of him warping reality, or a bio fine, I'll stand corrected, but I wouldn't take your word for it with your habit of misconstruing facts and things out of proportion like in multiple previous threads.

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#17 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn: Damn haha, I don't know how I missed that...
#18 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: It's cause you wish you could be mighty like me. Kidding, I actually almost missed it too, I had to type the ultimate mutant thing and then it showed up.

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#19 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn: Hah yeah, I first found this guy, and I knew that couldn't be right
#20 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: Same with me...the second I saw him in a Spider-Man comic, I was like against Proteus? That can't be right.

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#21 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

So who would win?

#22 Posted by Erik (32306 posts) - - Show Bio

@tron_bonne:

Rapidly reversing someone's age is not grounds to say they are a reality warper or that they are even the most powerful mutant. Aside from Alpha's title, he has done very little to prove that he is the ultimate mutant.

Online
#23 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik: he keeps a low profile, but that doesn't mean he' cannot preserve the title of being the ultimate mutant

#24 Posted by Erik (32306 posts) - - Show Bio

@nekoneko said:

@Erik: he keeps a low profile, but that doesn't mean he' cannot preserve the title of being the ultimate mutant

Sure it does. He never earned it in the first place. If anything, his title is just an ego stroking that Magneto gave himself.

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#25 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik: well yeah, it' just a pseudonim, but magneto should have a reason to name alpha like that...

#26 Edited by Erik (32306 posts) - - Show Bio

@nekoneko said:

@Erik: well yeah, it' just a pseudonim, but magneto should have a reason to name alpha like that...

He had a very classic Lex Luthor-like personality back then because that was what sold the whole "Hey kids, this is the bad guy" thing. It is likely he gave Alpha such a title because of the very reason I already suggested. So Magneto could stroke his own ego at his creation while laughing and twisting his long evil mustache (figuratively speaking).

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#27 Posted by NatalieImbruglia (52 posts) - - Show Bio

Alpha

#28 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@NatalieImbruglia: why?

#29 Posted by doombolt (26 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont knwo much about alpha, but if when he warps reality it is permanent then that is superior to proteus who (i think) when he warps reality it is only temporary while he is nearby.

Also proteus has weakness to metal?

#30 Edited by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@doombolt: He lost that weakness when he merged with Piecemeal. And alpha at least to my knowledge can't warp reality, he's a strong telekine and telepath, he transformed Magneto and the Brotherhood into babies

#31 Posted by doombolt (26 posts) - - Show Bio

oh i see, so his telekinesis levels are not known, e.g how does he compare to dark phoenix/x-man (before they totally gimped him)?

this is hard battle i guess if neither of them have seen enough appearances for pl to see limits of their powers

#32 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@doombolt: Well, I haven't seen alpha compared to DP or Nate Grey, but I recall him being near Stranger's power level, but I'm not entirely sure...

#33 Posted by Stompa (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@texasdeathmatch: Alpha the ultimate mutant

@tron_bonne: You're reaching and twisting facts out of proportion again. Turning Magneto into an infant can be done through genetic/molecular alteration which either is a separate power he has or can be done through telekinesis. It does not mean he can warp reality unless it was stated on panel. If someone can provide proof of him warping reality, or a bio fine, I'll stand corrected, but I wouldn't take your word for it with your habit of misconstruing facts and things out of proportion like in multiple previous threads.

Thank you that´s exactly my thought. I also think Proteus would win.

#34 Posted by MagneticTempest (207 posts) - - Show Bio

Proteus would not win, and that's the truth.

#35 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@MagneticTempest: I think both have like 5/10 chances to win.

#36 Posted by MagneticTempest (207 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:

@MagneticTempest: I think both have like 5/10 chances to win.

How. Proteus is not infinitely adaptable and self evolved. Alpha has been evolving and adapting since the 70's. 70 +80 + 90 + 2000 + 2010 = 40 years! By now Alpha should be as powerful as Eternity.
#37 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@MagneticTempest said:

@nekoneko said:

@MagneticTempest: I think both have like 5/10 chances to win.

How. Proteus is not infinitely adaptable and self evolved. Alpha has been evolving and adapting since the 70's. 70 +80 + 90 + 2000 + 2010 = 40 years! By now Alpha should be as powerful as Eternity.

Reaching at its finest. The guy's been in what less than 20 comics in 40 years? Kinda hard to make a statement that he's on the level of eternity when he hasn't shown anything for it.

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#38 Posted by NatalieImbruglia (52 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:

@NatalieImbruglia: why?

  1. Different power levels and abilities.
  2. Magneto defeated Proteus
  3. X-Men, Avengers, & Brotherhood of Mutants lost against Alpha until Xavier persuaded Alpha that killing is not right.
#39 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@NatalieImbruglia:

1. That's something discussable, proteus can warp reality, while alpha just has psychic abilities.

2. Proteus was just playing with him, he turned magneto's blood into lead isntead of killing him.

3. Proteus defeated New mutants, X factor and New warriors at the same time.

#40 Posted by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

@NatalieImbruglia:

1) None of the feats mentioned for Alpha so far seem like they would be at all difficult for Proteus.

2) Magneto himself is extremely powerful, and it was also explained that Proteus had actually weakened himself by possessing multiple hosts at once. Magneto has also received a number of powers boosts over the decades; current Magneto should be able to trounce any of his pre-90's versions with contemptible ease, and even those early versions was usually strong enough to defeat teams of X-Men and hold off the Avengers.

3) Depends on which characters were present, really. When Proteus fought the X-Men the first time he battled and defeated classic Phoenix, which basically puts him up at Herald level at least. His fight with the New Mutants, X-Factor, and New Warriors wasn't even really a fight, he just played with them for a little while before deciding they lost.

#41 Posted by Jezer (3129 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@texasdeathmatch: Alpha the ultimate mutant

@tron_bonne: You're reaching and twisting facts out of proportion again. Turning Magneto into an infant can be done through genetic/molecular alteration which either is a separate power he has or can be done through telekinesis. It does not mean he can warp reality unless it was stated on panel. If someone can provide proof of him warping reality, or a bio fine, I'll stand corrected, but I wouldn't take your word for it with your habit of misconstruing facts and things out of proportion like in multiple previous threads.

How can telekinesis be used to turn someone into a baby?

#42 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL @ godspawn! He knows I'm right. He's just playing devil's advocate.

#43 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...

#44 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:

@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...

Same way Sersi can change people into pigs and they are for all intents and purposes pigs.  Coupled with telepathy you can just erase or re-write the mind so that they are an infant.
#45 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@nekoneko said:

@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...

Same way Sersi can change people into pigs and they are for all intents and purposes pigs. Coupled with telepathy you can just erase or re-write the mind so that they are an infant.

I know but does Sersi does it by telekinesis? I've always thought she was a high level matter manipulator...

#46 Posted by Jezer (3129 posts) - - Show Bio

@nekoneko said:

@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...

Not buying the viability of this concept.

What is the difference between this and matter manipulation?

#47 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jezer said:

@nekoneko said:

@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...

Not buying the viability of this concept.

What is the difference between this and matter manipulation?

Nothing really important, is just that telekinesis on a molecular level is like duplicating matter manipulation effects, though differences are not well defined. I have always seen it like matter and energy manipulation are just divisions of telekinesis...

#48 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4022 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@nekoneko said:

@Jezer: He used telekinesis on a molecular level, it's moreless like matter manipulation. I recall phoenix doing the same on rachel in a What If...

Same way Sersi can change people into pigs and they are for all intents and purposes pigs. Coupled with telepathy you can just erase or re-write the mind so that they are an infant.

I know but does Sersi does it by telekinesis? I've always thought she was a high level matter manipulator...

No she doesn't, I was just expanding on what you said, high level manipulation of matter whether it's like Sersi or through tk should allow somebody to transform others, having telepathy can also explain how a person can be made a baby or pig completely, without the use of reality warping or time manipulation (in regards to the infant).
#49 Posted by nekoneko (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: aaaa ok sorry, and sersi's a good example, she's very powerful

#50 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko@LordOfAllHumans@Jezer:  
 
Sounds like you guys are confusing telekinesis, matter manipulation, and reality warping as three different powers. All of them are psionic so that means to control with thought. Alpha is a high tier psionic being. He can use thought to PSIONICALLY control energy/matter. He can use his psionic powers to control time, space, energy, matter at a much higher rate and reach than Proteus. Proteus can not warp Mars from Earth. Alpha can warp Mars while he's in the center of a Galaxy during a different time line. The reason why Alpha is not on Earth is because he is higher evolutionary and continues to evolve which Proteus HAS limits. 
 
Realistically, Aphla the Ultimate Mutant is similar to HP Doomsday with the Cosmic Stranger's powers. There is no way in hell, Proteus is above Stranger or anywhere near a well feed Galactus. 
If you guys say that Proteus can beat Alpha, that's like saying he can beat Karvoc, a Galactus Engine, Abraxus, IGV, The Phoenix Force Unleashed, or Chaos King. And it's obvious that he can not.