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#51 Posted by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, thanks. Btw, is Hulk durable sans healing factor?

His skin and tissue are durable, yes. But the degree also varies on incarnations. Wolverine's rammed his claws completely through say the like of Grey Hulk's abdomen in Hulk 340 (same issue that retconned their first fight when he couldn't cut him), to still cutting him, but barely doing any lasting damage ala WWH.

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#52 Posted by TifaLockhart (13828 posts) - - Show Bio

How does the good old prof stack up against the version of Hulk Wolverine initially faced? If he's comparable to grey, I say Wolverine wins. If he's comparable to savage or gravage or whatever green hulk goes by, then I favor Hulk unless I'm neglecting a factor I am not aware of.

#53 Edited by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: He's arguably the weakest Hulk incarnation, but mentally one of the smartest. He should be able to get cut and slashed just fine by Logan. He does have a higher initial base than the others, being in the class 100 tons and feats to support it, but he can't get too angry because if he reaches a certain point of anger he reverts back to Banner but this Banner has Savage Hulk's personality. So he becomes Banner that thinks he can smash if that clears up any confusion. So there is actually a cap on his greatest asset ie getting angry which increases all his other abilities. Without that and the fact he could revert to Banner makes him, like I said, one of the weakest incarnations.

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#54 Posted by TheAcidSkull (15898 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: He's arguably the weakest Hulk incarnation, but mentally one of the smartest. He should be able to get cut and slashed just fine by Logan. He does have a higher initial base than the others, being in the class 100 tons and feats to support it, but he can't get too angry because if he reaches a certain point of anger he reverts back to Banner but this Banner has Savage Hulk's personality. So he becomes Banner that thinks he can smash if that clears up any confusion. So there is actually a cap on his greatest asset ie getting angry which increases all his other abilities. Without that and the fact he could revert to Banner makes him, like I said, one of the weakest incarnations.

even so. Prof hulk is pretty cool headed and smart, and i am sure he can beat Wolverine. this is a guy who physically HURT, juggernaut.

#55 Posted by laflux (11047 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: He's arguably the weakest Hulk incarnation, but mentally one of the smartest. He should be able to get cut and slashed just fine by Logan. He does have a higher initial base than the others, being in the class 100 tons and feats to support it, but he can't get too angry because if he reaches a certain point of anger he reverts back to Banner but this Banner has Savage Hulk's personality. So he becomes Banner that thinks he can smash if that clears up any confusion. So there is actually a cap on his greatest asset ie getting angry which increases all his other abilities. Without that and the fact he could revert to Banner makes him, like I said, one of the weakest incarnations.

even so. Prof hulk is pretty cool headed and smart, and i am sure he can beat Wolverine. this is a guy who physically HURT, juggernaut.

He also layed down Dumb Drax with one shot, if that's worth anything.

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#56 Posted by TifaLockhart (13828 posts) - - Show Bio

I also think he'd be smart enough to avoid the claws as best he could and utilize the thunderclap more often.

#57 Posted by TheAcidSkull (15898 posts) - - Show Bio

I also think he'd be smart enough to avoid the claws as best he could and utilize the thunderclap more often.

Exactly. I don't see wolvei winning this any time soon :P

#58 Posted by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: He's arguably the weakest Hulk incarnation, but mentally one of the smartest. He should be able to get cut and slashed just fine by Logan. He does have a higher initial base than the others, being in the class 100 tons and feats to support it, but he can't get too angry because if he reaches a certain point of anger he reverts back to Banner but this Banner has Savage Hulk's personality. So he becomes Banner that thinks he can smash if that clears up any confusion. So there is actually a cap on his greatest asset ie getting angry which increases all his other abilities. Without that and the fact he could revert to Banner makes him, like I said, one of the weakest incarnations.

even so. Prof hulk is pretty cool headed and smart, and i am sure he can beat Wolverine. this is a guy who physically HURT, juggernaut.

I never said he couldn't if you bothered to read my post on the first page. In fact, I said this could go either way and laid out a case for both characters. Hurting Juggernaut or not still doesn't get around his major, major flaw and that isn't something Logan can't get around considering he is much faster, can tank a few hits, and has an environment to use to his edge as well. It's either person's game IMO depending on who gets that key shot or gets caught in the worst situation. I'm just debating the problems that people think this is a stomp in someone's favor when it isn't.

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#59 Posted by TifaLockhart (13828 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see wolverine faring well, honestly. You've sold me on his ability to win and his inability to being torn apart, but I see hulk taking a vast majority.

#60 Posted by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see wolverine faring well, honestly. You've sold me on his ability to win and his inability to being torn apart, but I see hulk taking a vast majority.

That's fine. I've already said either one can win this. I'm just against people thinking this is a stomp is all.

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#61 Posted by TheAcidSkull (15898 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

@god_spawn said:

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: He's arguably the weakest Hulk incarnation, but mentally one of the smartest. He should be able to get cut and slashed just fine by Logan. He does have a higher initial base than the others, being in the class 100 tons and feats to support it, but he can't get too angry because if he reaches a certain point of anger he reverts back to Banner but this Banner has Savage Hulk's personality. So he becomes Banner that thinks he can smash if that clears up any confusion. So there is actually a cap on his greatest asset ie getting angry which increases all his other abilities. Without that and the fact he could revert to Banner makes him, like I said, one of the weakest incarnations.

even so. Prof hulk is pretty cool headed and smart, and i am sure he can beat Wolverine. this is a guy who physically HURT, juggernaut.

I never said he couldn't if you bothered to read my post on the first page. In fact, I said this could go either way and laid out a case for both characters. Hurting Juggernaut or not still doesn't get around his major, major flaw and that isn't something Logan can't get around considering he is much faster, can tank a few hits, and has an environment to use to his edge as well. It's either person's game IMO depending on who gets that key shot or gets caught in the worst situation. I'm just debating the problems that people think this is a stomp in someone's favor when it isn't.

I haven't read you're posts so i had no idea what the IDEA of the argument had been ( i know now though), I understand what you are saying. What i wanted to say was that i see this leaning towards hulk more than wolverine, i didn't say that it was one sided, i simply don't see how Logan could in the end come on top. sure hulk and logan can fight for days, considering the fact that Hulk would win in the end. While wolverine can tank many hits, hulk can take numerous slashes, and the fight will go on. But i think hulk EDGE would be in the fact that, even though he doesn't get stronger with anger, he still doesn't get tired, and i'd say that his stamina exceeds logans, and as you've mentioned the more tired Logan is, the less effective his HF becomes. I think hulks best stamina feet was fighting for days against hel's forces.

:)

#62 Posted by TifaLockhart (13828 posts) - - Show Bio

Ironically, I think it's better to have a power other than durability to fight Wolverine. Cause those claws hurt just about anyone and everyone so its best to avoid them altogether, whether its by magnetokinesis, or a forcefield, or transmutation, or a ranged attack. The worst is relying on durability to save you so the guys who are afraid of the claws have the right idea over someone who would try to tank them. Am I making sense?

#63 Edited by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: And I can respect that opinion, bro. I do think Logan can down him briefly for incapacitation at least with a more brutal shot and Prof Hulk's hindrance of his biggest his asset. Wolverine has tried to stab him in the brain before to down him but never got the chance to, to KO him and he has rammed through Grey Hulk. So I think the intent is there when he has to because Wolverine knows he can't kill Hulk permanently. Still, Prof Hulk has a good enough HF to pull through a good chunk of fights and is intelligent enough to make a good difference in battle, but having genius intellect doesn't always carry over to tactical abilities in battle.

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#64 Edited by TheAcidSkull (15898 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: well thats seems reasonable. though just to point out Prof hulk has applied his mind to the game as well at a few times. and example would be during a fight with ajax. while ajax was charging at him , he quickly deduced that attacking him directly would be the best way to avid civilians getting hurt. he calculated the rate of speed at which ajax was going and deduced the he would have crashed in to the bar.

@the_last_son_of_czarnia:a lot actually!

#65 Posted by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: I know. I'm just saying intelligence does not always equal tactical abilities so it's possible he might slip up, same as Logan might get caught off guard by a different type of tactic from Hulk. I even laid out posts for both to use the environment to their advantages.

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#66 Posted by TheAcidSkull (15898 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: I know. I'm just saying intelligence does not always equal tactical abilities so it's possible he might slip up, same as Logan might get caught off guard by a different type of tactic from Hulk. I even laid out posts for both to use the environment to their advantages.

great points. and you're definitely right, Intelligence=/= Tactical abilities. the only hulk with TRUE tactical abilities was WWH, and that was probably because of sakaar.

#67 Edited by 18hunt (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

It would also be a fact to say it would be a lot easier to rip someone in half that way then the other way!

Anyway Wolvie stands no chance!

#68 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt:

It would also be a fact to say it would be a lot easier to rip someone in half that way then the other way!

Prove it with scans and issues. Bring an example of someone actually ripping wolverine in half or provide an example of professor hulk ripping adamantium in half.

Anyway Wolvie stands no chance!

You haven't proved anything.

#69 Posted by 18hunt (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

What I've been trying to say is Wolvie doesn't have a way to win

#70 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt said:

What I've been trying to say is Wolvie doesn't have a way to win

He does. He can gore him, incapacitate via brain stab, etc. Would he win a majority? That is what is up for debate.

#71 Edited by 18hunt (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

Are u telling me goring and ripping hulk head is going to kill him? Yeah right hulk throws him into orbit or thrashes him intel he has internal problems or blood loss

#72 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt:

Are u telling me goring and ripping hulk head is going to kill him?

No but it could incapacitate him. Win isn't by death.

Yeah right hulk throws him into orbit or thrashes him intel he has internal problems or blood loss

You have no evidence to support this. Post a scan or issue reference where professor hulk punched anything to orbit.

#73 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

....Help me out here fellas. I know that different comic book universes treat "Healing Factors" differently, but i've never understood why (at least in the XMen portion of the Marvel Universe) having superhumanly fast white blood cells and platelets, along with metal coated bones equated to an inability to get KTFO'ed by someone of Captain Ultra's, Spiderman's or say the Lizard's strength level, let alone someone like the Hulk who's stronger than all these guys by at least a factor of 10. I mean, Manslaughter Mayhem's powers actually were super strength, durability, and an overt pain suppression (guy couldn't feel a thing). Sigh... Wolverine being a member of the Hulk's rogues gallery has always made about as much sense to me as a using a footbal racket.

#74 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: The healing factor allows him to take the damage he shouldn't be able to take. Basically when wolverine gets hit he recovers so fast that he basically wasn't knocked out. If it makes it easier for you to accept I guess you can think of it as wolverine gets knocked out for a split millisecond or so and recovers before he hits the ground so it seems like he doesn't get knocked out. His healing factor can be taxed after taking to much damage though.

That's always been how I thought about it personally. I don't know if marvel has given an official explanation.

#75 Posted by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet said:

....Help me out here fellas. I know that different comic book universes treat "Healing Factors" differently, but i've never understood why (at least in the XMen portion of the Marvel Universe) having superhumanly fast white blood cells and platelets, along with metal coated bones equated to an inability to get KTFO'ed by someone of Captain Ultra's, Spiderman's or say the Lizard's strength level, let alone someone like the Hulk who's stronger than all these guys by at least a factor of 10. I mean, Manslaughter Mayhem's powers actually were super strength, durability, and an overt pain suppression (guy couldn't feel a thing). Sigh... Wolverine being a member of the Hulk's rogues gallery has always made about as much sense to me as a using a footbal racket.

When he gets hit the force is distributed across his entire adamantium skeleton, which is more durable than freaking Thor for comparison, and that's about all there is to know about it. The only thing anyone ever guessed would beat him is high-end warping like his common foe Magneto (which was proven in Ultimates) or obstructing his biological functions like drowning which he's admitted he has a fear of.

Wolverine was fused with pure adamantium which is rare in the Marvel universe and above any other adamantium variations which commonly are referred to as unbreakable. In addition during the fusion it was somehow mutated with his mutant body into a unique bio-adamantium.

#76 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc: When he gets hit the force is distributed across his entire adamantium skeleton, which is more durable than freaking Thor for comparison, and that's about all there is to know about it. The only thing anyone ever guessed would beat him is high-end warping like his common foe Magneto (which was proven in Ultimates) or obstructing his biological functions like drowning which he's admitted he has a fear of.

@jashro44: The healing factor allows him to take the damage he shouldn't be able to take. Basically when wolverine gets hit he recovers so fast that he basically wasn't knocked out. If it makes it easier for you to accept I guess you can think of it as wolverine gets knocked out for a split millisecond or so and recovers before he hits the ground so it seems like he doesn't get knocked out. His healing factor can be taxed after taking to much damage though.

I gotcha. I guess its just that when I was a kid, we'd do crazy ish like hit aluminum softball bats against telephone poles. The temporary sensation that gave us was... a rush to say the least. I can't even imagine what that would feel like under my musculature with my entire skeleton vibrating to the point of possibly liquifying my internal organs. Not just the Hulk, but against the top shelf "street levelers" I mentioned in my previous post. Taking full power bloodlusted blows from these guys should put him down (of course not fatally, due to the healing factor) but he should slump away into a corner or something holding his head or abdomen while his HF does its thing. Not keep on coming relentlessly regardless of the hellacious abuse he's taking/taken. Is that a reasonable conclusion on my part, or am I way off base here? Note: I meant Manslaughter Marsdale (not Mayhem) in case people want to Google who I was talking about in my previous post:)

#77 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: So your talking about wolverine passsing out due to pain? Thats possible I guess but wolverine has a good pain threshold.

#79 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio
#80 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @heraldofganthet: So your talking about wolverine passsing out due to pain? Thats possible I guess but wolverine has a good pain threshold.

Yes, exactly! I mean, even Hawkman (who for about 70 years or so has been the gold standard for blunt force resistance) will "take a knee" during a conflict if only to let his healing factor catch up and at least lessen the pain he's feeling. Perfect example: After Hawkman took several hits from a VERY angry Black Adam, he stopped to recouperate/live to fight another day, from what HAD to be monstrous pain; Most likely broken bones, massive internal bleeding, or worse. That said, there are some tough S.O.B.'s at my dojo who have to be beaten within an inch of disaster just to get them to tap or otherwise relent. Hmm... I guess the jury's still out on this one, huh?

#81 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: Well one time Rouge stole wolverines powers and she popped the claws and fell to the ground stating it was the worst pain she ever felt. Considering how casually wolverine pops his claws its safe to say his pain tolerance is really impressive. I guess you could also say wolverine tanking stuff is a pain tolerance showing.

You have to keep in mind how often wolverine tanks stuff, it is likely he is use to the pain to an extent.

#82 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I guess you're right. It still drives me crazy though seeing him take repeated "Superheavyweight Level" blows like they never even happened, and then just a few issues later, a deer WTF kicks him into La-La Land and/or Sabertooth (who's WAYYY weaker than the Hulk and everyone else i've mentioned) smacks him around for 22 pages straight. Sigh... I think DC's handling of Hawkman (for example) is how a real person in our world would handle getting hit by a Hulk level threat. Take a breather, get some Gatorade or something, THEN get back in the fight !

#83 Posted by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: He never got knocked into "la-la land" by a deer. That was all revealed to be part of a training exercise. Logan feigned the whole thing.

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#84 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Noted. I'll concede the point on that. It's just the rest of it that really turns me off to the character. Don't get me wrong though, if I see him fighting someone I know is a villain, i'll root for him to take the victory. But i'd be jeopardizing my credibility if I said I did'nt laugh until my stomach hurt when SpOck choke slammed him into unconciousness (albeit temporarilly)!

#85 Posted by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: SpOck shouldn't be KO him either. But is fun to laugh at Logan sometimes. I'm loving Savage Wolverine so far because of all the ridiculous moments. Getting knocked around by Judo pterodactyls. Drinking Shanna's dirty foot water. Tripping down a hill face first.

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#86 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: Yea I get what your saying. The inconsistencies are a bit of a pain but wolverine does have over 5000 appearances so he is going to have a lot of inconsistencies. All though I would say his high end feats are more consistent.

#87 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

This is maybe the only Hulk version Wolverine can beat.

#88 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I'm glad you see my point because for years this has bothered me and none (well, very few) of my friends seemed to understand where I was coming from. By the way, props to you for using JPV Azrael as your avatar. I really miss that guy.....:(

@god_spawn: Drinking Shanna's dirty foot water.

Wait, what? The Hell?!?

#89 Posted by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio
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#90 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: LMAO!!!! I don't know why I doubted you:) Now THATS funny!

#91 Posted by RulkFTW (98 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt said:

Also hulks healing factor, no way ur getting past that. Hulk will bash him around so badly that his internal organs would fail and get smushed and crushed

You realize Professor Hulk actually has a limit on things, right and isn't as effective as Savage Hulk in most categories? And I can just easily spam Wolverine's healing factor that he would just regenerate everything and get back up. That type of logic in this debate won't get you, me, or anyone else, anywhere in this debate.

@alteredbeast said:

If you think Wolverine has a chance then you've never read a single comic book ever. The only reason Wolverine doesn't get ripped in half by the Hulk more often because of PIS and marvel doesn't want to kill off a great character and alienate fans with excessive gore. -END-

That's an ironic statement then since by that logic, a lot of comic writers must never have read anything either considering Wolverine and Hulk have had numerous encounters and fights since Wolverine's debut back in Hulk 181. Which is also ironic since fighting Hulk was the first thing he has ever done and Wolverine holds victories over the Hulk as well. It's actually more ignorant to say that Wolverine never stood a chance considering, at least up until the last few years with WWH and up, Wolverine has given Hulk trouble plenty of times. And against one of the weakest incarnations of Hulk is a perfectly reasonable battle debate. It's not really your place to say that no one has ever read a comic book if they think Wolverine wins when this fight has been played out a dozen times, and usually with a stronger Hulk incarnation, so the comics are actually supporting of this debate. Now if someone said this is a stomp in either favor, then we have an issue.

When has Wolverine ever beaten Hulk?Also Wolverine got one-shotted by a glancing blow in his first encounter(though to be fair that was a weaker Wolverine).

#92 Edited by GhostRider2 (2985 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine can win.

#93 Edited by russellmania77 (13584 posts) - - Show Bio

how does wolverine win with out proff hulk going back to human form?

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#94 Posted by russellmania77 (13584 posts) - - Show Bio
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#95 Edited by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

@rulkftw: I'll look for the issues. I think he has only one or two with Hulk winning the rest or their fights getting interrupted or just stopping.

@russellmania77:

Hah, no. He was just drinking water and failed to notice Shanna washing her feet. He apparently has a bondage and masochistic fetish, though.

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#96 Posted by russellmania77 (13584 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: damn thats one hell of a danger room lmao

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#97 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: Yea JPV is pretty cool. I still need to read his solo series but he was pretty cool in knightfall.

#98 Edited by laflux (11047 posts) - - Show Bio
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#99 Posted by God_Spawn (35980 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: That's inside Logan's mind. Demons were in it and Emma Frost brought in a bunch of X-girls and she went into Logan's sexual fantasies.

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#100 Edited by TheAcidSkull (15898 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

This is maybe the only Hulk version Wolverine can beat.

The Only hulk That couldn't beat wolverine is grey hulk, other than that, he looses to most of them.