Primal Monitor vs Presence

ppl think for whatever reason that primal monitor is more powerful i wanna know why.

so whos more powerful presence or primal monitor and why.

VS.

Everyone dies.

@skyroid: primal monitor can crush DC creation as easily as me crushing an egg. go read the rules.@god_spawn:

presence is THE god. Presence wins.

@demonknights: so what? this is a mismatch of the highest order, and an illegal thread to boot. the presence is the ultimate god of DC, but......just go read his wiki.

why do new viners all do this?

@van_cere: So what??? what do you men so what? i dont need to read a wiki that anyone can go and change. i can go and change it to say that hes the easter rabbit. i read the comics. he wins.

This is something that's going to end in a stalemate because both entities are essentially God. One is the biblical idea of God, the other is Morrisons adaptation of God into the settings of the DC Multiverse, the same way Mandrakk is essentially Lucifer.But yes, this is a banned fight between two omnipotents.

This is quite the quadary primal monitor is the canvas of all creation while the presence is the creator of all upon that canvas I don't think one or the other can really be destroyed as their must always be a canvas and a creator so I'd say stalemate.

and presence cant? presence is God. if Presence chooses he could create universes larger than primal monitor. primal monitor failed to reach his goal, he is not omnipotent, omniscience all he is, is massive size.

that link doesnt lead to rules.

@uchiha454: a stalemate is not likely @demonknights: look, your the guy who knows nothing about comics, so just read, and stop showing your ignorance.

the presence is not a writer, he is supreme being in DCU.

just answer these

the presence, TOAA...all made their creations on it.

half a probe of it is as powerful as the wrath of god with amps

just by going there, the experience almost erased the being with the power of 52 universes.

lucifer and the presence went outside the DCU, and was shown as nothing. there, it is timeless. nothingness. just blank, white, canvas.

lucifer also went crazy when a creation just rose and fell in front of his eyes, he saw all 20 billions years of everything that happened in no time.

lucifers experience there: to disincline your eyes and mind to that new perspective to see time where no time is, takes an effort of will almost beyond imagining.

'and this is the heartbeat of eternity. creations rise and fall'

'the proportion of it that can be filled amounts, in the end, to zero'

'since past and present has no real meaning here, to argue about whether this creation came before or after Yahwehs is futile.' (the survivor of said creation is the silk man, not himself) this shows still, even first or second creations have no meaning

the interview:

What happens if the page is a bit pissed off at the story that's drawn on it? So I thought of the page as God. The idea being that the Overvoid – as we called it in Final Crisis - of the white page as a space is sort of God. And it's condensing stories out of itself because it finds inside its own gigantic white space, self-absorbed pristine consciousness, it finds this little stain or mark, this DC Multiverse somebody has 'drawn'. And it starts investigating, and it's just shocked with what it sees, with all the crazy activity and signifying going on in there. It then tries to protect itself from the seething contact with 'story' and imagines a race of beings, 'angels' or 'monitors' (another word for angel, of course) to function as an interface between its own giant eternal magnificence and this tiny, weird crawling anthill of life and significance that is the DC Multiverse.

— Grant Morrison, Interviewed on IGN.

@skyroid: read above post.

you do not know anything about most characters, and still try to correct ME? meaning threads about TOAA vs beyonder, and a creator vs the canvas....ridiculous

I'd like to think that Presence and Primal Monitor are kind of like Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth.

But anyways yea this thread is violating the rules.

@van_cere: I've read your post but if the primal monitor erases its creator then how will it be able to do anything?

@uchiha454: read the first line. the presence is not the writer, he is the creator of everything in DC. the PM is outside DC.

the presence also did not create the monitors, and the anti monitor, and the original monitor. nix uotan is not the presences too.

@baron_von_santa who do you think wins here?

@uchiha454: I AM baron, just an angrier version where he keeps his lists.

Ah I see but when was it noted that he didn't create them I thought he created everything within the confines of the DC universe including the monitors.

dude great i know nothing. so the creator is equal to the canvas, more power, less powerful or just a canvas the creator draws on? "you do not know anything about most characters" that quote is freakin annoying, so many ppl here think they're above each other without knowing about the other person. i know about monitor, presence, little about TOAA, pre-retcon beyonder and thats why i made this thread to further understand about them and why ppl think one is stronger or weaker than the other. we are not all omniscience. it is great u know a lot about comics and the characters great news. also link me the rule that u wanted me to see if u will plz

lol ok I think baron's knowledge on primal monitor is good I guess the canvas could take it then.

@skyroid: go to the battle forums, and find it. it is right on the first page, pinned.

(sorry, I have a problem with anger, obviously I do not know who you do not know about, I just get angry easily)

that must've been hard for u

@uchiha454: an angrier version, who only knows about this by coping the barons original post. I know more about transformers, and movie characters. kind of like multiple personality disorder, only much better.

@van_cere: k still makes sense though

ok so the rules said if its mismatch and i think one wins i should flag it. how do i flag it? i wanted to point out that the presence is God therefore a canvas where the God draws on is just a canvas, the canvas isn't as powerful as The God. In many comics Presence is The God and then Grant Morrison points out that he thought of the page as God. primal monitor shows great feats creating powerful being. but i didn't see anything that proves he is omnipotent or omniscient.

@skyroid: I am much calmer now (after watching the simpsons)

the presence made his creation on something, that does not mean he is the writer. the writer drew the presence on the canvas too. there is a guy who can beat PM, but that guy is the writer. I think the post covers that too.

in that same way the TOAA we see in comic was drawn by author in real life, although he represents the author he is below the real life author because he himself was created?

@skyroid: that is the difference between the presence and TOAA. the presence is Yahweh, not the writer. I have a list about it, and the most powerful being is the writer grant M

Presence, he's God and top character, creator of everything, everyone in DCU.

@vaeternus: did you not read PMs feats? if the presence can win, then pigs can ply. yes, PLY.

@van_cere: I have and honestly there are others like Thought Robot, Spectre, Ion etc could take on PM...all of whom are below Presence level.

Presence is God, God>>>everyone else. I get PM has feats but you do know Presence created everything right? That feat surpasses anything PM has done...especially currently, Presence admitted he's God and creator of all in N 52. If you think PM wins you don't know the concept nor power of Presence.

I'll quote this guys point from an older Primal monitor vs. Beyonder topic...

@vaeternus: so either you read the post and choose to ignore it, or your Reading skills are as bad as hell. go read again.

@ Van_Cere, Actually, I was the top of my class in English, thanks so I'd fall under neither but perhaps you just have no clue who Presence really is....

You read again, because you have no argument to prove how PM beats the Presence. Perhaps you don't understand the concept of God, who is he? Yes? Presence is not only God but omnipotent, you may want to look up what that means.

I'll try again, Presence=God creator of all of the entire DCU Multiverse. The Monitor's job are to OVERLOOK it, they didn't create it nor are the ultimate entity. Read a DC comic please, modern one especially. Or continue to lowball Presence as "this non omnipotent character" lol, makes no difference to me.

@skyroid: I agree man, makes no difference is TOAA is the "writer" or Presence one or not. That's the dumb copout excuse the Presence haters try to use to lowball the character, reality is Presence=God and creator of entire DCU multiverse. TOAA the Marvel one. Writer or not is irrelevant. People like to lowball Presence and ignore the current N52 version which IS God himself and creator of all, he admits this in Phantom Stranger(which very few on here even read) Presence would stomp any Monitor if he wanted.

It's a different version entirely then Pre N52.

@vaeternus: bragging about your reading skills huh. go read my posts again. It answers all your questions.

are you an idiot? are you retarded or something? when the hell have I ever said the presence is not omnipotent? your reading skills are terrible. either go find where I said that, or shut up.

you tell me to read a comic? I have read more comics than you know words, interpret this however you want.

re you so damn lazy you ask the same questions, yet the answers I have told you, are already given? do you want me to tell you which post?

@vaeternus: posts 25, 14, 10. go and actually read before you say ridiculous things.

Yes, I've read your posts still doesn't change anything nor prove how PM actually "kills" the Presence. Try again.

Well, then don't assume ;) and I was more so correcting your false claims about "my reading skills".

No I am not. Are you? Can you argue without flaming others or is this too difficult for you? You sound like you're getting angry for no apparently reason.

No, mine are good thank you very much. I also must say, you're in no position to bash anyone else's "skills" when you're not even using proper grammar so save it.

I doubt this, again you don't know me so don't presume to. You've displayed the opposite if anything, Presence being Omnipotent means he can do anything you do know this? Or perhaps you're not aware of what the word means?

So here, I'll help you :)

om·nip·o·tentämˈnipətənt/adjective

1. 1.(of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything.

   synonyms:

   all-powerful, almighty, supreme, preeminent, most high; More

noun

1. 1.God.

BTW, telling others to "shut up, and telling them they're retarded" will only get you flagged.

primal monitor is not omnipotent

presence is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. ok sometimes he doesn't use omniscient because he like randomness to see things happen without knowing them but still he is omniscience.

being big in size just as beyonder " woo my universe is a ocean and marvel is a drop of water in it" doesnt make u more powerful the God.

yea primal monitor created powerful beings doesn't make him omnipotent. he isn't omnipotent or omniscient. i am repeating myself so many times.....

Brah,flaming against the rules!! Not cool brah!!

Intriguing

@vaeternus: omnipotence in comics is not as straightforward. the presence is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent inside the DCU. normally that is enough, but beyond the DCU, there is the canvas on which it was drawn. there are other creations like the one lucifer created, or even farther, the marvel universe.

though you still ignore my posts, and post irrelevant things, i will repeat myself for you.

the presence and TOAA are the same, with only one difference. the writers made the presence, TOAA is the comic representation of them. the presence created everything in DC, outside, he is as insignificant as everything else.

so in a nutshell, the presence is not a writer, he is supreme being in DCU.

the primal monitor:

the presence, TOAA...all made their creations on it.

half a probe of it is as powerful as the wrath of god with amps

just by going there, the experience almost erased the being with the power of 52 universes.

lucifer and the presence went outside the DCU, and was shown as nothing. there, it is timeless. nothingness. just blank, white, canvas.

lucifer also went crazy when a creation just rose and fell in front of his eyes, he saw all 20 billions years of everything that happened in no time.

lucifers experience there: to disincline your eyes and mind to that new perspective to see time where no time is, takes an effort of will almost beyond imagining.

'and this is the heartbeat of eternity. creations rise and fall'

'the proportion of it that can be filled amounts, in the end, to zero'

'since past and present has no real meaning here, to argue about whether this creation came before or after Yahwehs is futile.' (the survivor of said creation is the silk man, not himself) this shows still, even first or second creations have no meaning

the interview:

What happens if the page is a bit pissed off at the story that's drawn on it? So I thought of the page as God. The idea being that the Overvoid – as we called it in Final Crisis - of the white page as a space is sort of God. And it's condensing stories out of itself because it finds inside its own gigantic white space, self-absorbed pristine consciousness, it finds this little stain or mark, this DC Multiverse somebody has 'drawn'. And it starts investigating, and it's just shocked with what it sees, with all the crazy activity and signifying going on in there. It then tries to protect itself from the seething contact with 'story' and imagines a race of beings, 'angels' or 'monitors' (another word for angel, of course) to function as an interface between its own giant eternal magnificence and this tiny, weird crawling anthill of life and significance that is the DC Multiverse.

— Grant Morrison, Interviewed on IGN.

see? the answers. i just clarified the posts i posted before. if you actually took the time to read them you would know this.

@xaa Yes, what I was thinking myself actually....

Exactly lol. Apparently according to some people the PM can defeat an Omnipotent some how.

I agree, but it's obvious sometimes people choose to ignore logic and facts concerning characters so you can only do so much. The guy obviously hates the Presence for whatever reason the conclusion I've found.

@skyroid: that is not the case. the presence is omnipotent inside the DCU. the primal monitor is everything outside. the guy made that up. saying the presence is not omnipotent is ridiculous.

DCU is the creation. ur saying he is only omnipotent if he is inside his creation? the way i see it is that presence is God, he created DCU he was God and omnipotent even before creating DCU was he not. therefor he was always God/omnipotent. he is God in or outside of DCU.

I'm not ignoring what you're posting, but this still doesn't prove how PM kills/defeats the Presence who is Omnipotent and that's all that matters here. Level of power which Presence has MORE of. The Monitors are still within and apart of the mainstream DCU, the Presence is the creation of ALL DCU...therefore he has power over them, and being omnipotent he can do anything. They are not.

Observe. http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Monitors

I don't see what the out of the DCU is supposed to mean here exactly in the story they come from a different place but it's still apart of the mainstream DCU, they just go or visit each DC Universe within the DCU multiverse...The Primal Monitors aren't within Image, Marvel, another property etc they're within the DCU which means Presence has power over them.

The OP said Presence, perhaps if you want to debate use the older Presence there may be some differences but still same endgame he's God at the end of the day if it's N52 Presence he stomps PM. He admits this in Phantom Stranger when Spectre was fighting Phantom Stranger, they put the multiverse at risk til Presence told them to stop and play nice....currently there is no Lucifer etc as that's Pre N52. He also states this during Forever Evil Blight Event "you may be wondering why a God, creator of all sits back and allows this to happen do you feel your voice is above the millions on Earth crying, praying right now but perhaps you don't realize there's a reason for such" he knew Good would prevail over Evil and blight, thus let it happen.

Are you the other guy on different account, cause why would you say out of no where in here "I'm ignoring your post"? This is the first time you posted...

@vaeternus: I'm not ignoring what you're posting, but this still doesn't prove how PM kills/defeats the Presence who is Omnipotent and that's all that matters here. Level of power which Presence has MORE of.

you do not have any proof, yet i already explained it.

I don't see what the out of the DCU is supposed to mean here exactly, since PM is from the same DCU as Presence...The Primal Monitors aren't within Image, Marvel etc they're within the DCU which means Presence has power over them.

actually, no. the DCU is the creation within. still, already explained by both grant morrison, and Lucifer himself. go read the post again. the questions you ask are all answered.

The OP said Presence, perhaps if you want to debate use the older Presence maybe but still he's God at the end of the day if it's N52 Presence he stomps PM. He admits this in Phantom Stranger when Spectre was fighting Phantom Stranger, they put the multiverse at risk til Presence told them to stop and play nice....currently there is no Lucifer etc as that's Pre N52.

1. in new 52, there are only 52 universes.

2. no lucifer in new 52? you should read demonknights.

3. new 52 is a retcon made by the writers. there is no primal monitor in new 52.

4. you have no proof the new 52 presence is omnipotent. the pre 52 version is.

in conclusion, all you need to do is accept what the writers have said, and it is all in my post. please actually read it before replying.

they made a new lucifer who is nothing special to what lucifer morningstar was.

dude what do u mean he is omnipotent omnipresence and omniscience inside DCU? he created DCU he existed before his creation was he not God before he made it? was he not all that before he created DCU. why are u and so many other ppl underrated presence so badly? just cause he took the form of a old man?

@skyroid: yeah, they have to depower everyone in new 52. @vaeternus: if you want to edit, please just post another. it is hard to keep up. anyway, your the one who said you never look at wikis right? and please. you are refusing to believe what the writer himself has explained. even fanboys should know when to stop when the writer explained what they are disagreeing with. are you trying to correct grant morrison?

@skyroid ahh, thanks. I just read up on that, totally different. Seems vastly weaker.

This was the first post in this topic you made, so I take it you have various names? :-/

There is proof, Presence=God and is omnipotent thus his power is greater then any Monitor...

Actually, yes the DCU is created by the Presence...he states this a few times throughout time and currently in the N52 he states this in the Phantom Stranger series. Lucifer doesn't exist in the N52 at least not the "same version" as one you refer to, you know this right?

Yes, but Presence also admits he's the creator of the DCU Multiverse...aka 52 Universes.

Yes, but either if there were Presence would still be the top dog as he stated this already.

Actually, yes I do it's Phantom Stranger if you read it you'd know so yes there is proof.

I think you need to learn what the word omnipotent means so please understand a word's definition before posting and read current comics, also posting under various names doesn't help you.

Also, keep in mind that's ONE writer...not every DCU writer, you know they all have their own perspective on characters right? Why do you think different writers write them differently so what Grant says is really his opinion and irrelevant here, unless he created Presence or Monitor(which he didn't) I don't see how his view is any higher then mine or yours here...

If you want to be THAT technical, then humans created the DCU and Marvel Universe...

@skyroid: i am not underrating him. i am telling you what the writer himself said. being omnipotent inside the DCU, which has an infinite amount of universes is not enough for you?

@van_cere: Let's try to debate without insulting other people. You can disagree without directly affronting others.

@vaeternus: your just trolling now sir. you are repeating what i have already explained, and are trying to say the writer himself is wrong. you also are confusing new 52 with pre 52.

greater than any monitor.

you state things, but never actually have proof. the primal monitor is not just any monitor, it is the canvas. you are being confused by similar names.

please just stop, your embarrassing yourself (no offense). your posts confuse retcons, you do not give proof, and you are telling us that the writer himself is wrong. that is sad, if you want to make it different, then go and complain to grant morrison.