Battleground: New York City
VERSUS
@reaverlation: @nathaniel_adam: @gokuss4z: No analysis?
Predator,
Their tech is superior and they are much older - elites have been hunting and battling for hundreds of years with beings that outclass Panther, they have more experience.
Hand to hand they are way stronger, more durable and betternspeed agility feats... they can leap many stories up from a standstill like its nothing. Meaning they can easily leap to a building or tree to get away from danger then stalk from a positionnof safety launch a counterrattack
Predator has plasma canons, net guns which cannlaunchnup to three nets at once, the round disc which they can lock onto multiple targets, spear, blades, self destruct bomb, laser mines, whip, shuriken, power gloves which allowed Wolf in AVPR to easily punch thru the street, various vision modes even sound vision, body fluid tracking and footprint tracking. They have so many weapons at their disposal and gadgets they could use to trap Panther in a choke point
I say it depends on the Predator... Wolf or a Pred like him would be a good match for Panther
Panther.
@m0ntyb0y: No analysis needed T'challa stomps the pred
Predator,
Their tech is superior and they are much older - elites have been hunting and battling for hundreds of years with beings that outclass Panther, they have more experience.
Hand to hand they are way stronger, more durable and betternspeed agility feats... they can leap many stories up from a standstill like its nothing. Meaning they can easily leap to a building or tree to get away from danger then stalk from a positionnof safety launch a counterrattack
Predator has plasma canons, net guns which cannlaunchnup to three nets at once, the round disc which they can lock onto multiple targets, spear, blades, self destruct bomb, laser mines, whip, shuriken, power gloves which allowed Wolf in AVPR to easily punch thru the street, various vision modes even sound vision, body fluid tracking and footprint tracking. They have so many weapons at their disposal and gadgets they could use to trap Panther in a choke point
I say it depends on the Predator... Wolf or a Pred like him would be a good match for Panther
With his latest King of the Dead upgrade,T'Challa has all the past Black Panthers in him and that T'Challa is born warrior.His current tech is not to be underestimated with his Daggers that can cut Forged Steel like Cheese,a teleporter and cloaking in his current suit,grenades and gauntlets that hurt Namor,etc.T'Challa's current gear is fearsome.
T'Challa has strength that rivals Captain America.More durable can possibly go to the predator but with the gear T'Challa packs,it's almost irrelevant.T'Challa fast enough to dodge Sniper Rounds at point blank,have characters like Wolverine and Spider-Man remark on T'Challa's speed and fight a bloodlusted Iron Fist at speeds faster than the human eye can track while underwater.In strength,T'Challa can carry full grown men while running up a building IIRC like 12 seconds.
T'Challa is a monster
Panther.
@m0ntyb0y: what pred lvl?
Predator,
Their tech is superior and they are much older - elites have been hunting and battling for hundreds of years with beings that outclass Panther, they have more experience.
Hand to hand they are way stronger, more durable and betternspeed agility feats... they can leap many stories up from a standstill like its nothing. Meaning they can easily leap to a building or tree to get away from danger then stalk from a positionnof safety launch a counterrattack
Predator has plasma canons, net guns which cannlaunchnup to three nets at once, the round disc which they can lock onto multiple targets, spear, blades, self destruct bomb, laser mines, whip, shuriken, power gloves which allowed Wolf in AVPR to easily punch thru the street, various vision modes even sound vision, body fluid tracking and footprint tracking. They have so many weapons at their disposal and gadgets they could use to trap Panther in a choke point
I say it depends on the Predator... Wolf or a Pred like him would be a good match for Panther
With his latest King of the Dead upgrade,T'Challa has all the past Black Panthers in him and that T'Challa is born warrior.His current tech is not to be underestimated with his Daggers that can cut Forged Steel like Cheese,a teleporter and cloaking in his current suit,grenades and gauntlets that hurt Namor,etc.T'Challa's current gear is fearsome.
T'Challa has strength that rivals Captain America.More durable can possibly go to the predator but with the gear T'Challa packs,it's almost irrelevant.T'Challa fast enough to dodge Sniper Rounds at point blank,have characters like Wolverine and Spider-Man remark on T'Challa's speed and fight a bloodlusted Iron Fist at speeds faster than the human eye can track while underwater.In strength,T'Challa can carry full grown men while running up a building IIRC like 12 seconds.
T'Challa is a monster
This
He's a batman with better feats
@baztet: Smiley
@capfan85: Would be a decent match-up
@zill0678: *Fist bump*
@killerwasp: Clan Leader
@m0ntyb0y: No analysis needed T'challa stomps the pred
only in your little fantasy world
BTW, if you're going to claim stomp, you need to provide evidence...otherwise your claim doesn't mean sh*t
I want to go with T'Challa on this. However, there are different levels of Yautja, and to my understanding, Smiley is supposed to be an Elite Predator. Thing is, I don't know a lot about him. I need some specifics on what weapons he uses or has used before (and not what other Predators use or have used in the past). I want to see what physical capabilities he possesses (strength, speed, durability, reflexes/reaction time, etc). I want to know what this guy is all about before developing an argument against him.
BTW, if you're going to claim stomp, you need to provide evidence...otherwise your claim doesn't mean sh*t
Your bias on the issue of who wins doesn't make it better.
Why not ask him for an explanation on why he thinks T'Challa stomps? Or, you could at lease provide a counter argument against his claim. Saying that people's claims mean nothing is counter-productive, when all you're doing is just co-signing those that believe Smiley would win without asking them to provide evidence or an analysis on their claims.
@static_shock: I'm not claiming that Smiley stomps. I'm simply calling him out on his claim without evidence.
I think Smiley wins but I don't think he stomps. Smiley's combat feats are shown in this thread (under "Part 4: Combat Prowess")
@m0ntyb0y: mhhh prolly pred.
@m0ntyb0y: Provide evidence to someone who is obviously biased? Lmao I'm not providing you with jack
Do yourself a favor though and read some feats of Black Panthers then make a better thread :)
Would love to give it to the Predator - love those guys - but unless it's a *really* elite Predator, I don't see him having much of a shot. Despite base Yautja stats being far, far better than base human stats, Panther has years of comic feats which are getting pretty silly and far beyond things he should sensibly be able to do.
A really elite Predator wins the odd fight... But I'd give it to Panther 8/10.
It's been done.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/elder-predator-vs-black-panther-1631140/
T'Challa, he's honestly getting his power amped every year. But then again, he's always been powerful, fighting the F4 and whatnot.
@static_shock: I'm not claiming that Smiley stomps. I'm simply calling him out on his claim without evidence.
I think Smiley wins but I don't think he stomps. Smiley's combat feats are shown in this thread (under "Part 4: Combat Prowess")
Yeah, and I'm saying that you've already shown your bias as far as who wins. You're giving high-fives to people that think Smiley wins (most of them have no evidence), while telling another person that their claim means nothing because they provided no evidence for T'Challa. It doesn't go one way. It goes both ways. You should be trying to spark debate from both sides in order to make it interesting. Just a suggestion.
Anyway, based on what I saw in that thread, it seems like all Predators have comparable feats of strength, durability, and speed. I guess it's safe to say that they are all around the same level in that regard, and arguably stronger than T'Challa. However, strength has never been a big factor against him, since he's defeated enemies that were many times stronger than he was. There are his numerous fights with Man-Ape (who is able to lift ten tons). In their last fight, T'Challa KO'ed him. There's also his last fight with Namor, and even though there wasn't a clear winner, T'Challa had the upper hand (and of course, tech gave him the advantage). He's even fought and defeated a Skrull with the martial arts skills of Marvel's best fighters and Luke Cage's strength and durability. So, Smiley's (or any Predator's) strength here, to me, is a non-factor. It seems as if Predators are used to fighting enemies that are weaker than they are (save for Xenomorphs). It's the complete opposite with T'Challa.
With other physical abilities, like overall speed, moving faster than the human eye, agility and dodging/avoiding bullets, neither T'Challa or Smiley have significant advantage over each other. T'Challa has feats in those areas that are just as impressive. As for martial arts skills, I think T'Challa has a better track record under his belt:
-Daredevil (T'Challa held his own for a while, before being knocked aside)
-Captain America (both have never had serious battles, but are considered equals in fighting. If we considered their fights, anyway, they are 1-1)
-Iron Fist (T'Challa defeated him, although he was nearly killed. Iron Fist was brainwashed and powered up, as well)
-the Skrull I mentioned, who had Iron Fist's Chi, Bullseye's accuracy, Luke Cage's strength and durability, and the fighting skills of T'Challa, Shang Chi, Moon Knight, Captain America, Daredevil, and Eletrka (T'Challa broke his arm and leg, after reading his body language to figure out that the Skrul can only use one power at a time, and gouged his eyeball out of his socket)
-Karnak (T'Challa defeated him once in their second fight, knocking him out with one blow, and had the upper hand in their first fight before being broken up)
-Lady Bullseye (defeated her and Typhoid Mary at the same time, while he was depowered; Lady Bullseye has given Daredevil issues in battle)
-Killmonger (although he's never beaten Killmonger, he's done amazing well against him, every time. Their most significant fight lasted for 13 hours, with one hour breaks in between)
-the White Wolf (T'Challa defeated him both times, once with nerve strikes)
-Red Skull (a low showing for T'Challa, since Red Skull doesn't have impressive combat showings, but T'Challa still won and broke his jaw in half)
-Both Sergei and Alyosha Kravinoff (T'Challa defeated both. He was depowered against Sergei, so he had approached this fight differently. It wasn't that much of a close-quarters fight and a lot of it was ranged with Sergei using a metahuman kid to his advantage for most of it. Against Alyosha, their fight was close-quarters, T'Challa lost the first fight and won the second)
-Kingpin (who held his own against Captain America and gave Daredevil one hell of a fight, T'Challa held his own pretty well, while having outside resources take down his criminal empire. T'Challa won that fight)
T'Challa himself stated that he's studied every fighting style there is, and he's even demonstrated knowledge of pressure points and nerve strikes, as well developing his own fighting style at one point. Prior to becoming the Panther, he defeated his uncle Syan, who was the last Black Panther before him. Syan had the benefit of enhanced physical abilities via the Heart-Shaped Herb, while T'Challa had not yet been upgraded. I didn't see any noticeable martial arts prowess from Smiley or other Predators in that thread. I'm sure they have some skill, but nothing deemed impressive.
Currently, T'Challa's physical abilities have been upgraded by Bast/Bastet, but to an undefined limit. Jonathan Hickman, who upgraded him, stated that T'Challa once punched a man in half (this is shown on panel) in New Avengers: Illuminati #1. T'Challa has had other strength feats over the years, like bulldogging a rhino that weighed 3500 lbs (1.5 tons) and driving it into the ground head-first. The impact snapped the rhino's vertebrae, killing it. He's even tipped over a boulder weighing a few tons. He's also broke through chain bonds (once he was chained to a large wooden water wheel, and with full body strength, broke the chains and the wheel to pieces) and broken from shackles with his arm strength only. He once slammed a superhuman being named Dolf into the ground (which was concrete), slightly cratering it. There was even time when he was depowered, and he uproot a post office box from the street with strength alone. He's lifted a large tree, wrestled a 5 ton rhino into submission, wrestled a giant polar bear into submission, wrestled a lion into submission, kicked off the head of a robot, decapitated a Doombat with a punch, wrestled against a giant crocodile and resisting it's bite force (usually, crocs have a bite force of a few tons), killing it, and killed a superhuman alien werewolf. There was the time he used a palm tree as a catapult in order to propel a moderately-sized boulder. Hickman, although he hasn't specified what his physical limits are currently, has implied that T'Challa is at least stronger than he was when he had the Heart-Shaped Herb on his Twitter account. So, he's at least enhanced/low-superhuman, as he's always been, but to a higher degree. The way that Predator rips through normal humans is going to be more difficult for him to pull off against T'Challa, as he is stronger, faster, and more durable than normal humans. He also still maintains his superhuman senses, as well.
As for tech, Smiley only seems to be carrying his spear, shoulder cannon, cloaking technology, and wrist blades. There was another bladed weapon he had, also. T'Challa, however, has energy daggers (stuns at the lowest setting and kills/cuts through steel at the highest setting; can disable tech like Skrull shielding and Iron Man's force fields, etc), cloaking technology, teleportation technology (or it could be mystical in nature, with one panel of him telling Bast to teleport him and the Avengers to Wakanda, not exactly sure), energy shields, powerful bombs and energy gauntlets that are powerful enough to hurt Class 100 beings like Namor. As for T'Challa's suit, it used to be a Vibranium microweave mesh, capable of absorb kinetic energy. The suit protected him against bullets, stabs, powerful blows from stronger opponents, and various types of energy (electromagnetic, sound, cosmic, etc, etc). The suit came with Vibranium soles that allowed him to walk on water, run up the sides of buildings, and move in silence (his footsteps, more importantly). The soles also allowed him to deliver powerful kicks. He once slammed his foot into the ground, put cracks in it. However, Vibranium has since been rendered inert ever since the events of Doomwar, so there's a likely chance that he no longer possesses this suit. So, for the sake of the argument, he doesn't have it here.
Playing out the fight, cloaking tech might be pointless for both of them; T'Challa's hearing and sense of smell are superhuman, so even if he cannot see Smiley while he's using cloak, he would still be aware of his presence and have no issue locating him. Sue Storm tried this against Panther in his first appearance, and in spite of her invisibility, he was still able to detect and locate her via scent. He was even fast enough to jump inside of her force field before she could close it. I don't know if T'Challa's cloak can mask his heat signatures or not, so whether or not Smiley would be able to detect him is something I cannot determine. Perhaps you could determine if Smiley or other Predators have other ways of detecting people other than heat signatures? T'Challa has advantage of mobility. He can move through New York just as well as he does in the jungle, plus he can teleport at will and has done so in battle recently. His energy shields could probably block shots from Smiley's shoulder cannon (as they have with bombs and energy blasts) or he could simply just dodge fire from it, since he's never had a problem dodging energy-based ranged attacks. Energy daggers can be wielded like combat knives or than can be thrown, as they regenerate from the suit. They can either be fired from hilt rapidly or fired from the tips of his gloves. They can literally be swarmed. Smiley could probably avoid them for a while, but I doubt his durability could withstand them. Same goes for his bombs, which may not be avoidable for long. I'd say T'Challa has it better from a distance than Smiley does. In close quarters, T'Challa may have advantage. He may not be as strong, but he doesn't need to be, having fought characters that were stronger than him on a regular basis and in close quarters, too. Then, there's his martial arts skills as well, and his energy gauntlets, which could allow T'Challa to deliver stronger physical attacks.
While it might not be a stomp, I think T'Challa wins more often than not, as he is actually a bit more prepared for this fight.
It's been done.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/elder-predator-vs-black-panther-1631140/
To be fair, that's featuring an unspecified elder Predator. It doesn't specifically mention Smiley, like MontyBoy did.
It's been done.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/elder-predator-vs-black-panther-1631140/
To be fair, that's featuring an unspecified elder Predator. It doesn't specifically mention Smiley, like MontyBoy did.
Alright, Thanks.
@static_shock: The other guy is 100% certain that Smiley stomps. He claims it's indisputable fact. That's why I think he should provide evidence.
I'm of the opinion that Smiley would win a close fight. I'm open to being convinced otherwise. I can't say for certain because I'm only somewhat familiar with Black Panther.
However, I do think that Black Panther's strongest feats are probably above Smiley's feats. Smiley is limited to one comic book. Therefore his feats are all pretty consistent. Black Panther appears in numerous comic books. I'm willing to bet that his showings fluctuate.
I think it would be fair to cite Black Panther's average showings.
Black Panther can phase his energy daggers through things, he even used this tactic on Ultron. He could phase them through the Predator and rip him apart, and he is fast enough to do so. If Spiderman compares T'Challas speed to his own, the Predator might get speedblitzed. Depends on which Predator it is. The only challenge would be the high ranking, elite predators. Then again Black Panther has faced aliens before, like Skrulls and Super Skrulls. It's a close match if it's Smiley or Wolf, or the really good Preds.
@nightway: the speed comparison is false. Wolverine and Captain America matched BP speed wise, and Iron Fist after a short fight ended up blitzing BP. BP is not Spider Man speed. Spider Man once stated wolverine to possibly be faster, only Wolverine gets blitzed by Spider Man or Kaine all the time. It's unsupported.
@8bitgangsta: Yeah. But still, the Predator has no answer for the vibranium or weapons. He can't hide, because Black Panther has special vision modes that can detect Predator.
@8bitgangsta: Yeah. But still, the Predator has no answer for the vibranium or weapons. He can't hide, because Black Panther has special vision modes that can detect Predator.
Your right he cant hide, but neither can BP as his cloak has no feats to by pass multiple spectrums.
Vibranium is not infallible, it can be cut along the seems or stabbed through. But does render most attack pointless, it is pretty cheap battle forum gear as it places BP damage intake to Blunt and Energy weapons in weak hulk levels, and that not street tier considerations at all. However predator is not totally outclass here.
Plasma Glaive would easily cut through unless Vibranium is sun like temperatures resistant.
The Predators weapons themselves are all made of a unknown metal that does not exist in real world science. Lighter than metal, and harder than steel. Not to say Energy Daggers or Anti metal will not easily by pass it, but can be used to cut up that Vibranium Weave.
Predator Helmet is advance enough to spot stats and weakness in foes as well, may very well help him understand how to by pass that Vibranium Weave.
Then you have the natural strength, speed, and durability advantages Predators has shown.
Like this.
Then we have the insane skill of Predators of the top Preds have shown.
Here a older Pred has killed over 50 Alien Queens with Spear and Wrist Blades only. Nothing else. Notes alot of them were not worthy fights either.
Not seeing BP doing well against a Alien Queen in close combat with not armor, and only Wrist Blades and a Spear. Not seeing it at all.
So all in all BP is in for a fight even decked out.
I think it would be fair to cite Black Panther's average showings.
Everything I mentioned is average for Black Panther. He had one low showing against Red Skull and still defeated him.
@8bitgangsta: @nightway: T'Challa lost Vibranium after the events of Doomwar. He doesn't even have it here, and I don't think he needs it considering the gear he currently carries.
Also, 8bit, the Predator being used is Smiley, and the number of weapons he had were limited. Other Predator accomplishments don't carry over to him. There's no reason to assume he carries every Predator weapon there is, either. As for defeating a Xenomorph Queen, he's only beaten one, to my recollection. Either way, it's not enough to beat T'Challa.
Black Panther can phase his energy daggers through things, he even used this tactic on Ultron. .
I forgot about that. Ultron was composed of adamantium at the time, too.
@static_shock: this is just smiley? That's lame, limited feats to pull from, and limited gear. He would lose though give hell if BP has no Vibranium Armor, could still take wins as he has a easier time to maim and kill.
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