Pre time skip Luffy vs Pre time skip Zoro

Round one -

On the thousand sunny.

Normal morals.

Land is 1 mile away.

No BFR. Win by death/ko

Round 2

On Enels island.

Win by death.

No morals.

I'm thinking luffy

Before Arabasta, Zoro and Luffy were equals. But that's about it. Zoro is below Luffy since that point.

Luffy although to We still haven't seen Zorro's full power.

@patrat18: yes we have. It's pre TS zoro, there's nothing more to see lol

Zoro.

Wrong. Do you really believe after all that training with Hawk(eye) Mihawk, Zorro has shown us all of his power? I'm pretty sure that his eye is not gone, but that he is keeping it shut for a reason. The main person that has been showing us mostly all of his new moves is Luffy.

Pre-TS zoro means zoro, before time-skip. That is, only feats upto timeskip are valid.

Whatever he does after post-time skip isn't considered valid for either of them.

iam going with Luffy

Id say Zoro would edge it out, Better durability and he cuts Luffy weakness is Cutting.

@princearagorn1: Which is why i said "Luffy although to We still haven't seen Zorro's full power"

So.. you're saying we get a flashback arc or something?

This shouldn't even be a question, anyone who reads one piece knows that luffy will always be superior to zoro.

I'm saying we should see more of what Zorro can do before we put these two in a battle. Right now Luffy should win against Zorro.

But we literally can't see more of Pre-time skip zoro? Whatever we see is going to be post time skip, remember?

Zoro should take both rounds. Luffy's weakness is cutting, after all.

Round 1 - Zoro has the advantage because he could sink Thousand Sunny fairly and that's it for Luffy.

Round 2 - Luffy will have to go into second gear while Zoro does his ranged attacks. I just don't see him taking a Zoro with no morals and I'm leaning on Zoro in this round.

I hate it when people say crap like

Every single enemy luffy has faced stabbed or slashed him during the fight, cutting isn't luffy's kryptonite.

Luffy, in Gear 2 will not be stopped by Zoro.

But, in round 1 when he's really losing bad, zoro will sink the ship, and Luffy is dead then.

In round 2 Luffy FTW, more striking strenght and speed.

@frogdog: Luffy getting a paper cut is not the same as facing a swordsman that wields three blades. Don't hate me, hate the author.

Sure this is a papercut

You mean the same author that has luffy face tougher opponents than zoro?

@frogdog: Thanks for saving me the trouble of posting that. Luffy barely survived that. Zoro will have done that three times over. Anyone that's watched/read One Piece should know that pre-timeskip Zoro is faster and stronger. Luffy's second gear is the only way for him to match Zoro and by that point Zoro's doing ranged attacks that could cut a building in half! Luffy has never faced an opponent like Zoro in any of his arcs. Zoro has actual tactics and techniques and doesn't use brute force to solve all his problems. Zoro wins.

Turns out I was right that I was arguing with a zorotard, simply because you used that picture as negative, while I posted it disprove your point about luffy only getting papercut in his fights with opponents. Right because Zoro fights the strongest members of the enemies team members, never the second in command, Zoro is the captain while Luffy in second command, I'm sure EVERYONE who's reads the manga would agree with you amright?

@zhege: Crocodile was able to do that because he was a Logia and could avoid being hit. Zoro lacks of elemental intangibility. That being said, Zoro almost died after taking the punishment Luffy suffered in Thriller Bark while Luffy just "fainted".

1. Luffy is more durable overall...
2. Luffy is faster overall...
3. Luffy has better striking feats overall...

Again, Zoro was his equal till Arabasta. After that Luffy just went upward. Let alone Post-Timeskip with all the Haki boost.

@frogdog: Luffy can do what he does because he has a devil's fruit, not 'cause he's strong, fast, tactful, dexterous, high vitality, or because he's skillful. Those are all traits attributed to Zoro. Luffy can take the trashing he always gets because he has a devil's fruit that turned him into rubber. You know, the substance that takes no blunt damage unless it is pierced. Just as I don't think Zoro can take some of the leaders that Luffy can, I don't think Luffy can take some of the people Zoro has taken out. Let's also get it straight that Zoro has no intentions of being a captain and is second in command out of pure skill, not some electoral vote that he got nominated out of.

hmm, more durable due to his immunity to blunt physical attack maybe, but in the ability to tank dmg zoro is without a doubt > luffy. Your are forgetting something in your TB example, not only took Zoro all dmg Luffy received in the arc, it goes on top all the DMG zoro received, so luffy fainted from his own dmg but zoro was still standing after HIS dmg AND luffys dmg combined. So there is no way luffy > zoro in this department, at least pre TS. In this fight my money is on Zoro, Luffy never faced an swordsman as skilled as Zoro and he can´t simply tank Zoros attack like his other fights.

You do know that luffy being rubber hardly helped his fights, expect for enel. Luffy can take trashing due to his denomination, even his flashback with ace & sabo show that luffy will take any punishment to protect his friends.

Zoro already took his own punishment in thriller bark throughout the arc, Luffy's was added onto that, a total pain that Luffy did not suffer.

1. Luffy is more durable to blunt overall, it's his fruit, not piercing.

2. Maybe Luffy in second gear is faster overall, but he needed to pop into it to dodge most things that came his way after learning it, his base form is not faster. Zoro is also a swordsman, there's no way you can say his striking speed is faster.

3. Luffy's striking feats are because he's careless. You're also comparing a flail against a sword. The flail is all about knocking things over. One gatling gun to Zoro and his arms will get chopped off or you think Luffy's long range bullet is faster than a swordman's strike?

This really comes down to what can Luffy do resist being turned into minced meat and second gear doesn't make him immune to slashes.

@kenshirofistofwrath

hmm, more durable due to his immunity to blunt physical attack maybe, but in the ability to tank dmg zoro is without a doubt > luffy.

No, Luffy is more durable overall, to cold attacks, hot attacks, piercing attacks, cutting attacks. Even poison. Zoro has nothing on Pre Time Skip Luffy let alone Post Time Skip.

Your are forgetting something in your TB example, not only took Zoro all dmg Luffy received in the arc, it goes on top all the DMG zoro received, so luffy fainted from his own dmg but zoro was still standing after HIS dmg AND luffys dmg combined.

Zoro didn't fight 1/10 of what Luffy went though in Thriller Bark. Not to mention, Kuma taking a little portion of the bubble to give Zoro a hint of he was going to take was already hurting the sh*t out of Zoro... Zoro almost died, and he couldn't even heal himself in 5 chapters afterwards, hell he couldn't even move. What that feat actually shows is Zoro having a sick determination. And pretty much the point where he begins to be superior to Sanji.

Luffy fainted after beating Oars, and Moria... After storing 100 souls inside of him, he was actually dying by doing this. And after exerting his body to Gear 2nd several times. Not to mention, he wouldn't have fainted if he didn't clear everything. i.e he wouldn't have fainted if Moria was conscious.

So there is no way luffy > zoro in this department, at least pre TS. In this fight my money is on Zoro, Luffy never faced an swordsman as skilled as Zoro and he can´t simply tank Zoros attack like his other fights.

Luffy is still superior, he almost died twice in Impel Down to then without rest at all went and fought in Marine Fort, take attacks from 3 different Admirals and 4 Vice Admirals, to ultimately faint from emotional shock. I mean, Luffy's being literally through hell without stopping.

And they fought before arriving to Arabasta. They stalemated.

@ghostravage: You're assuming Luffy wouldn't have been out cold for five chapters or even five arcs. Saying Luffy took more damage is of little reasoning when he doesn't take the damage. Luffy also recuperates by just eating, which isn't the same as fighting back to back.

They stalemated in that one fight before Arabasta because morals are on. Zoro's sword would otherwise have mutilated Luffy.

@frogdog: You've stopped contributing to this discussion. All you've proved is that you don't comprehend Luffy's fruit nor that he was a stubborn child. Please show yourself the way out.

Nope, he wouldn't be, Sanji would have prepared some soup or whatever, and he would be conveniently fine in a few hours... Zoro received treatment from Chopper and still couldn't even move right.

From where are you getting Luffy doesn't take damage? That's utterly groundless. Shigan didn't pierce him while in Ennies Lobby but he was taking the damage, it depends how blunt is the attack. Oars rifle wasn't a normal attack, it involves spinning which generates heat. So yeah, he was taking all this damage in Thriller Bark, that being said, why ignoring on-panel proof he actually took the damage when Kuma repelled it?

Morals are part of their characters, you can't use their character development as an excuse to overhype another one. On the other hand, Luffy hasn't been bloodlusted ever. But he proved he's WAY too skilled when serious as proven when he one shot'd Bellamy.

1/10? why does that even matter? Zorro still took all of Luffys damage on top of his and was still standing, luffy fainted only from his own. And we don´t know how much time luffy would have needed after all his dmg was removed. yes Luffy fainted after oars, moria, souls etc but what does that proof, zoro took that dmg as well and was still standing after he received it and what makes it even more impressive,is that luffy took that dmg over time, zoro IN ONE SHOT. i mean come on, i am not downplaying Luffy but this instance cleary showed that Zoro > Luffy in dmg taking.

yeah without invakov he would have died, but that doesn´t proof that luffy > zoro, poison dmg is another story.

that was no real fight and you know it, especially if we go morals off.

still from the TB instance, on top of his own damage tanking ALL the dmg Luffy received in ONE SHOT > everything luffy showed

1/10? why does that even matter?

Christ do half of you guys even known how the anatomy works?

@ghostravage: Sorry, should have made it clear that the damage I'm referring to there is blunt. Other damage he would take, but Zoro takes that that damage and blunt damage. Most of the damage Luffy takes is blunt damage, too, thus non-existent. Unless he's hit incredibly hard, then blunt damage suddently hurts, but that's usually at the end of things. I'm also not ignoring on-panel damage, but Kuma's abilities are magnitudes above anything pre-timeskip.

Morals is what saved Luffy against Zoro or do you believe Luffy was honestly tanking directly blows to the skin from Zoro's swords? Luffy's character is meant to be a joke, if you believe he's skilled, this conversation won't go anywhere. All he proved against Bellamy is that Bellamy is too cocky and shouldn't bounce into a fist, 'cause that's all it was. No doubt in my mind Zoro could have put his sword in the way of Bellamy without having to get all serious.

My main argument is that Luffy can't take slashes from Zoro, this is all I need to concede that Luffy can best Zoro. Doesn't matter the pain tolerance or if we don't agree on strength, 'cause if Luffy can't live being split in half, then he won't win.

it doesn´t matter how much dmg zoro took in comparison to luffy he still took ALL THE DAMAGE luffy received in this arc on top of his own and was still standing. so please show me when luffy took an entire arc worth of dmg from two people and was still standing, i bet you cant, because he was fainting only by his own dmg he received OVER TIME, zoro took all this in ONE SHOT on top of his own, so damage taking zoro > luffy, there is nothing to argue about

@kenshirofistofwrath

1/10? why does that even matter? Zorro still took all of Luffys damage on top of his and was still standing, luffy fainted only from his own.

It matters because Zoro's damage was insignificant to what Luffy experienced in the arc. What really almost kills Zoro was Luffy's damage. Zoro was still fine and dandy when Kuma arrived, but nah, surprisingly, im going to get screwed for 5 chapters after taking the damage Luffy took. To then say, "that's what our captain suffers everytime". That was just to show people what Luffy does for his nakamas and that Zoro is one hell of a badass...

And we don´t know how much time luffy would have needed after all his dmg was removed. yes Luffy fainted after oars, moria, souls etc but what does that proof, zoro took that dmg as well and was still standing after he received it and what makes it even more impressive,is that luffy took that dmg over time, zoro IN ONE SHOT.

Yes we would have known he always recovers in 1 day 2 maximum... Hell, even after Marine Fort and when he had a lethal wound (once again) in his chest after receiving surgery from Law, he woke up and was destroying big rocks and fighting Jinbe with all his wounds still there... Your argument is "Zoro took the damage and stood still" (even though he didn't look like he was there in the first place, he was already delusional) while Luffy after receiving enough damage to die, stood up and moved like the crazy bastard he is. So what he fainted? He always leaves with the job done.

Take for example the Gyojin Island arc, he had a lethal wound (ONCE AGAIN) and was still punching Noah without stopping, but suddenly, he just calms down and faints after the Sea Kings stopped it from destroying the island. He faints because the job is done and he's tired, not because he was exerted to the limits.

yeah without invakov he would have died, but that doesn´t proof that luffy > zoro, poison dmg is another story.

No it's not, Poison falls directly into durability as well. And Ivankov's procedure could have killed Luffy as well. It was a 50/50 and it all depended on Luffy. Citing Ivankov btw.

that was no real fight and you know it, especially if we go morals off.

This is a poor excuse to put Zoro above Luffy... Zoro killed pirates before, but we haven't seen Morals Off Luffy. How can we put both of them "morals off" if we don't even know how a "morals off" Luffy is.

still from the TB instance, on top of his own damage tanking ALL the dmg Luffy received in ONE SHOT > everything luffy showed

His damage wasn't that impressive at all... What really almost kills him was Luffy's damage. Enough to say his damage was insignificant to what Luffy took.

@frogdog: All Zoro does is train day in and out. You think Luffy's the one who weight-lifts daily? Luffy being made out of rubber is the only reason he took on Enel. Luffy being made out of rubber is the only reason he survived after Crocodile was taking the water out of his body. Luffy being made out of rubber is the only reason he took the beatings he did during all of East Blue. And what are you talking about that Zoro has the lowest variety of villains? Luffy and Zoro are the two who split the hard work when everyone else is off and about. With all your name calling you're the one who can't be taken seriously. GhostRavage is actually putting up an argument and getting me to tilt to Luffy's side on round two, while you're just badgering.

Yes it does matter, if zoro's pain was even remotly the same as luffy, then wouldn't be shocked by the tiny amount kuma gave him. Withstanding pain is always about much your willing to put your body through, and if Zoro thought he could take luffy'd pain, then his own pain was nothing that would threaten his life.

@frogdog: 1 + 1 = 2.

In case you don't believe it was one, then 0.1 + 1 = 1.1. And 1.1 > 1.

I've done my part to help those who are mentally incapacitated today!

sorry you can write all you want, taking all luffys dmg IN ONE SHOT on top of his own while luffy taking that damage over an entire arc and fainting > everything shown from Luffy but i wont reply anymore because you cant go against an obvious luffy fanboy

it was still no real fight and you know it

for me pre ts its Zoro > Luffy, luffy still cant tank any attack from zoro like he always does, while zoro can take some hits from luffy

that it is for me

I stopped reading at the bolded part. This is by far, the most obvious intent of lowballing Luffy i've ever seen. I haven't even mentioned Gear 2nd nor Lucci's fight. I mean, Pre TS Zoro is below Luffy, let alone Post Time Skip going by feats though.

@ghostravage: You're trying to tell me that you believe Luffy is highly skilled, vastly trained, focused on its pray like a fly on a bull, and takes everything seriously? If you do, you have Luffy on a golden podium. Show Luffy food and he can't concentrate, put Luffy in a life-threatening situation and not until someone gets hurt does he even realize everyone could die, drop a pretzel and he could throw a fit the entire episode, draw a face on a plastic bag and blow it into the wind after he's said hi to it and he'd probably burst into tears. Do you care to deny that there is more comedy in One Piece than actual serious moments? It still stands that Luffy's first response to everything is brute force and to take it as a joke. Congrats on one-shotting Bellamy, it took him how many episodes/chapters and how many countless of jokes through-out to accomplish such a feat?

@zhege:

All Zoro does is train day in and out.

Half of the training is anime filler, and it ever amount to is fighting someone that isn't the strongest

You think Luffy's the one who weight-lifts daily?

This would be meaningful if zoro actually lifted things luffy couldn't lift.

Luffy being made out of rubber is the only reason he took on Enel.

Pls learn how to read, I already covered that "You do know that luffy being rubber hardly helped his fights, expect for enel"

Luffy being made out of rubber is the only reason he survived after Crocodile was taking the water out of his body.

No Luffy being able to shoot extra water in sky saved him, not his rubber.

Luffy being made out of rubber is the only reason he took the beatings he did during all of East Blue.

Luffy's fight with don krieg and arlong would have been easier if he wasn't made of rubber. Rubber only an advantage against fodder like buggy and alvida.

And what are you talking about that Zoro has the lowest variety of villains?

Try naming a serious Zoro opponent that wasn't a swordman

Luffy,Zoro and Sanji are the three who take on the strongest opponents when everyone else is fighting the weaker ones.

Fixed

With all your name calling you're the one who can't be taken seriously

Grow thicker skin

GhostRavage is actually putting up an argument and getting me to tilt to Luffy's side on round two, while you're just badgering.

You still haven't made an argument for me to take you seriously

@zhege: Really man, you seriously can't be lowballing Luffy for being funny, One Piece in its entirety its like that...

• Shanks is a drunktard. Really, the guy is probably the most powerful character in OP right now and he still makes jokes and stuff around Mihawk. Totally not skilled.
• Call Zoro "Marimo" once and you're done. As well as put him in a city... He'll get lost in 2 seconds. The guy is a living map of course.
• Sanji is crazy for girls, a pervert... Totally not skilled.
• Kizaru is a lazy S.O.B... Totally not skilled...
• Ivankov is a funny "okama"... Not skilled at all.
• Garp makes fun of the Marine when Luffy makes some chaos... Totally not skilled. He's a joke as well as his title.
• Doflamingo is called the "joker" for christ sakes... Look how he dresses, totally not skilled. DUH.

I can keep naming non-serious high tiers that are utterly skilled.

You don't know ANYTHING about One Piece if you dare to say Luffy is not skilled. The guy is a battling genius. But because he contributes to the funny side of the series he's not skilled? Lamest argument ever. Basing myself in this, you don't worth the time.

Whaaaat? The show has always implied that when there's big bad guys, Zoro takes the 2nd strongest while Luffy takes the boss.

That's how it goes like every time.

Jmarshmallow

I was warned not to say this again, but what I highlighted is just pathetic.

Is this your sad attempt at saying they are unskilled? Not one person you've mentioned on the list takes life as loose as Luffy does by a margin large enough to encompass all those characters you've mentioned and all the other ones you've suppressed. Not one of the persons you've mentioned in battle (except Sanji who isn't at par with anyone on that list and unlike Luffy has actually trained in his life and Kizaru 'cause he's cocky and can probably win) takes it like a joke like Luffy does.

Do you even realize that the very characters you've mentioned have ridiculed Luffy and been baffled at his stupidity? At most actions he makes? Don't expect another reply.

@kenshirofistofwrath:

"Sigh"

Why do you think the manga puts more detail on Zoro survivng luffy's pain than his own?

Lol, if all it took was sharpness to kill Luffy, Buggy would have done him in.

It's comicvine battle thread, there always going be somebody that will argue against the obvious

@zhege: I wont expect any reply, your lame intent of encasing Luffy's skill to his seriousness is outstanding.

But just for the lolz...

1. Luffy assimilated Soru into his own way in 1 night... Something that takes several years of training to master.
2. Luffy comes with battling ideas in the heat of the Battle, Enel, Crocodile, Marine Fort, Impel Down... You name it.
3. Luffy has trained his whole life since 5 years old. Has surviving skills like no other.
4. His battling style is so weird is nigh-unpredictable. Zoro copies and combines, Luffy creates and alters.

Don't reply back, i rather keep my mouth with the taste of good argumentation that blatant lowballing ignorance.