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#1 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio

 vs


Michael Demurigos



The Beyonder and Molecule manage to make their way to the DC universe, Beyonder threatens to destroy creation. Instead of dealing with the two out right, the Presence gets help from his agents. 






Beyonder
&
vs
Lucifer Morningstar: (God's Will)
Archangel Michael: (God's Power)
Spectre: (God's Wrath)
The Word: (God's Voice)
The Radiant: (God's Mercy)

Location: Silver City




Rules:
Winner by Death/KO/Forfeit.
Team 2 at their peak. 
Team 2 knows what their up against. 

#2 Posted by capall2 (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre recton Beyonder wins here and Owen isn't needed as he is insignificant just as the rest of them...
#3 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10365 posts) - - Show Bio
@capall2 said:
" Pre recton Beyonder wins here and Owen isn't needed as he is insignificant just as the rest of them... "
Aren't Michael and Samiel together equal to GOD? So how do they lose?
#4 Posted by Prince of Saiyans (2072 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder

#5 Posted by karrob (4276 posts) - - Show Bio
@capall2 said:
" Pre recton Beyonder wins here and Owen isn't needed as he is insignificant just as the rest of them... "
Isnt pre-recton Molecule Man almost if not equal to the Beyonder?
#6 Posted by Ronyc (151 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 should win here.
#7 Posted by Logic_and_Debate (142 posts) - - Show Bio

If team two combined equals god, then god>beyonder

#8 Posted by slacker the hacker (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder is equal to the Prescence he solos
#9 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@slacker the hacker said:

"Beyonder is equal to the Prescence he solos "


I think you need to read some more about PR Beyonder, some actual comics with him in it may help. As powerful as he was his powers did have limits, his power was not infinite and he could not exist if he destroyed everything. All of which he which he stated himself on multiple occasions. Saying he is “GOD” is pretty much saying you read a few PR Beyonder respect threads and know nothing about him.

As for the battle, the OP’s description of “team presence” is not completely accurate.

Michael and Lucifer combined have the exact same power as their father does. Michael has unlimited power to create, ( an entire Multiverse in one case). Lucifer has the power to shape whatever he wants into whatever he wants. In the case I mentioned above Michael ejected all the energy and matter he desired, Lucifer shaped it into a complete Multiverse, stars, planets, solar systems, Galaxies, Universe’ complete with living beings, GOD’s etc. You name it. The two combined would wipe the floor with team one.

Spectre was a Fallen Angel that rebelled with Lucifer, he asked for God’s forgiveness and redemption.  GOD gave him the chance to do this, he erased his mind and turned him into a tool that represented GODS vengeance. That’s where the story starts with him, there is much more character evolution after Christ etc. He is not however a part of GOD himself. He would beat Owen but PR-Beyonder would kill him.

The Word is a different story and is not “Gods voice”. He is the very first being created by GOD himself. He himself is almost GOD but has his limits like PR Beyonder, I think this would be the best fight between the teams.

The last one would get raped just like Mandrakk did to her.

Anyhow the OP description of the team is wrong but cool battle. 0/

   
#10 Posted by capall2 (1428 posts) - - Show Bio
@karrob said:
" @capall2 said:
" Pre recton Beyonder wins here and Owen isn't needed as he is insignificant just as the rest of them... "
Isnt pre-recton Molecule Man almost if not equal to the Beyonder? "


Pre recton MM has universal molecule manipulation powers altho I wouldn't go as far as equal or even near to the Pre recton Beyonder.  There are still several beings that are higher not to mention he is also nowhere near even nigh omnipotence

 

 

 

 

@Nelomaxwell said:

" @capall2 said:
" Pre recton Beyonder wins here and Owen isn't needed as he is insignificant just as the rest of them... "
Aren't Michael and Samiel together equal to GOD? So how do they lose? "


Lucifer and Michael's powers combined are not equal to God. They may be nigh omnipotent but still aren't truly omnipotent even when they compliment each other...

 

 


 

#11 Posted by Primebonnick (1724 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate when people use classic beyonder in threads that don't have people in his level sigh.

#12 Edited by Mackeja (325 posts) - - Show Bio

PR Beyonder was omnipotent. He was not simply a multiversal prescence, but all that existed beyond it. The Beyonder was basically another Omniverse's TOAA. He can destroy the omniverse with minimal effort. DC hasn't even created beings on his level, because they realize that something that powerful would be outright stupid. Unless he is against Bugs Bunny or TOAA, PR Beyonder autowins.

#13 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

PR Beyonder solos.

#14 Posted by Thepowercosmic (940 posts) - - Show Bio

#15 Posted by TheLegendary32 (64 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre retconned Beyonder WAS RELATIVELY omnipotent because, as Secret Wars implied, was so powerful he could destroy entire galaxies in a second but comparing him to the Creator of the whole DC Universe who is Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omniversal. Only GEB can equal The Presence.

#16 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ronyc said:

Team 2 should win here.

Agreed.

Beyonder is omnipotent, but against five people who are nigh-omnipotent, I think he's going down.

#17 Posted by Almighty_Darkseid (1724 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2 stomps

#18 Posted by lol (3996 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by lol (3996 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:

@carter_esque said:

@lol said:

@prince_cortsether said:WH

PR Beyonder solos.

Sorry, these types of threads aren't allowed anymore.

@deranged_midget @saren @buckshot

What is that type of threads you talking about? what means all words you say?

Battles featuring omnipotents and unbeatable characters aren't allowed according to the forum rules. You should read 'em out when you get a chance. They can help you avoid these types of pitfalls in the future.

#22 Posted by Kingant27 (3031 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre recon beyonder is not omnipotent, but nigh-omnipotent as there is only 1 omnipotent character in omniverse and in marvel it is the One Above All not Beyonder. Also the Beyonder can be easily tricked where as the two sons of the Presence, along with the Spectre, gives them the win. May also point out the only reason pre recon molecule man beat the beyonder is because there was no one near level. I may sound like I contradicting myself but the Living Tribunal who wouldn't stand up to the beyonder back them was useless but current LT is only limited by how much power that one above all gives making him absolute 2nd to God.

#23 Posted by lol (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre recon beyonder is not omnipotent, but nigh-omnipotent as there is only 1 omnipotent character in omniverse and in marvel it is the One Above All not Beyonder. Also the Beyonder can be easily tricked where as the two sons of the Presence, along with the Spectre, gives them the win. May also point out the only reason pre recon molecule man beat the beyonder is because there was no one near level. I may sound like I contradicting myself but the Living Tribunal who wouldn't stand up to the beyonder back them was useless but current LT is only limited by how much power that one above all gives making him absolute 2nd to God.

Ok the only who have manipulative habilities in the presence team is lucifer but if he fails in tricks the Beyonder or if he doesnt stay in presence team what team wins ? Spectre and Radiant really i dont know what are doing here

#24 Edited by patrat18 (8740 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder should be banned.

#25 Edited by Dextersinister (5755 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

Beyonder should be banned.

He is fine, it was retconned so he isn't as powerful as he initially made himself out to be.

#26 Posted by Auction_Sniper (1240 posts) - - Show Bio

You can bring The Presence in, too, and he still wins.

Online
#27 Edited by thecoolest (239 posts) - - Show Bio

You can bring The Presence in, too, and he still wins.

I agree, The Primal Monitor is the only being in the DC universe that could beat this Marvel team.

#28 Posted by Jbourne_32 (920 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably PR Beyonder and PR Molecule Man

#29 Posted by JwwProd (8623 posts) - - Show Bio

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

#30 Posted by lol (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

#31 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer michael duo stalemate beyonder.

rest combined beat owen.

#33 Edited by Rijehu (471 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker the hacker

said:

"Beyonder is equal to the Prescence he solos "

I think you need to read some more about PR Beyonder, some actual comics with him in it may help. As powerful as he was his powers did have limits, his power was not infinite and he could not exist if he destroyed everything. All of which he which he stated himself on multiple occasions. Saying he is “GOD” is pretty much saying you read a few PR Beyonder respect threads and know nothing about him.

As for the battle, the OP’s description of “team presence” is not completely accurate.

Michael and Lucifer combined have the exact same power as their father does. Michael has unlimited power to create, ( an entire Multiverse in one case). Lucifer has the power to shape whatever he wants into whatever he wants. In the case I mentioned above Michael ejected all the energy and matter he desired, Lucifer shaped it into a complete Multiverse, stars, planets, solar systems, Galaxies, Universe’ complete with living beings, GOD’s etc. You name it. The two combined would wipe the floor with team one.

Spectre was a Fallen Angel that rebelled with Lucifer, he asked for God’s forgiveness and redemption. GOD gave him the chance to do this, he erased his mind and turned him into a tool that represented GODS vengeance. That’s where the story starts with him, there is much more character evolution after Christ etc. He is not however a part of GOD himself. He would beat Owen but PR-Beyonder would kill him.

The Word is a different story and is not “Gods voice”. He is the very first being created by GOD himself. He himself is almost GOD but has his limits like PR Beyonder, I think this would be the best fight between the teams.

The last one would get raped just like Mandrakk did to her.

Anyhow the OP description of the team is wrong but cool battle.

Agreed

#34 Edited by Hulkman123 (1367 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

@rijehu said:

Team 2 wins. This is almost a mismatch.

Yes it is a mismatch, either member of team 1 solos.

#35 Posted by eternityx (2468 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 stomps.

Online
#36 Posted by Rijehu (471 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

@rijehu said:

Team 2 wins. This is almost a mismatch.

Yes it is a mismatch, either member of team 1 solos.

I doubt it.

#37 Posted by Hulkman123 (1367 posts) - - Show Bio

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@lol said:

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

@rijehu said:

Team 2 wins. This is almost a mismatch.

Yes it is a mismatch, either member of team 1 solos.

I doubt it.

I don't doubt it, especially considering that Beyonder was stated as being millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined, including LT, and him thinking too hard caused dimensions to collapse in on themselves.

And MM controls all energy, and is also more powerful than everything else in the multiverse combined, although not to the same extent as the Beyonder. Without even knowing how to properly use his powers, he effortlessly used an attack on the Beyonder that could have slagged of billions of dimensions.

#38 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2962 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder solos

#39 Edited by Rijehu (471 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkman123 said:

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@lol said:

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

@rijehu said:

Team 2 wins. This is almost a mismatch.

Yes it is a mismatch, either member of team 1 solos.

I doubt it.

I don't doubt it, especially considering that Beyonder was stated as being millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined, including LT, and him thinking too hard caused dimensions to collapse in on themselves.

And MM controls all energy, and is also more powerful than everything else in the multiverse combined, although not to the same extent as the Beyonder. Without even knowing how to properly use his powers, he effortlessly used an attack on the Beyonder that could have slagged of billions of dimensions.

Here me out. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the power or the capabilities of Team 1, but I guess I'm not that blown away by the Beyonder or MM hype. Nothing they can do is new to Team 2. Michael has infinite power as well, God's power that is. Creating and destroying infinite multiverses is what he embodies. Lucifer can infinitely warp creation itself to his will, he is God's will embodied. He has infinite control over all things that be, matter, abstracts, and concepts alike. This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think there is any power Beyonder can use, that Michael can't use himself, since they are both infinite. Also, MM's energy and matter manipulation means nothing to Lucifer, who willed those two things into existence himself. Any power used on Lucifer, become a weapon at his disposal. Infinite control > Infinite power IMO.

Also, we have seen that Beyonder while having great power, was weak minded. That is the greatest weakness against him. Lucifer's intellect alone could mind rape Beyonder into killing MM and then himself. I also read that MM had some insecurity issues that could easily be exploited. Lucifer has shown far greater manipulation feats than anyone on either team. This is why he rarely uses his raw power. He usually gets his enemies to bring about their own end. He tanked the blast that could have destroyed the DCU twice, and was unscathed. One was when he was severely weakened. Lucifer and Michael are also able to exist outside of creation so I don't see how destroying everything around them is going to harm them. Michael, even when being "killed" was reformed flawlessly and immediately afterwards. They are basically, Infinite Power and Infinite Control with near flawless intellect.

Adding an Unbound Spectre would make this a bit more difficult for Team 1 since he would be fully unleashed because of the attack on The Presence's city. Also, The Voice is the first concept created when The Presence spoke so his power should rival that of Lucifer and Michael. The Radiant may not be needed here. However, I don't want to be fanboyish so I will say that either team still stands a chance when it comes to pure power, but I think Lucifer's intellect is something to be reckoned with.

Honestly, I take the mismatch thing back. This will be one heck of a battle!

#40 Posted by lol (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@rijehu said:

@capitolpunishment said:

@slacker the hacker

said:

"Beyonder is equal to the Prescence he solos "

I think you need to read some more about PR Beyonder, some actual comics with him in it may help. As powerful as he was his powers did have limits, his power was not infinite and he could not exist if he destroyed everything. All of which he which he stated himself on multiple occasions. Saying he is “GOD” is pretty much saying you read a few PR Beyonder respect threads and know nothing about him.

As for the battle, the OP’s description of “team presence” is not completely accurate.

Michael and Lucifer combined have the exact same power as their father does. Michael has unlimited power to create, ( an entire Multiverse in one case). Lucifer has the power to shape whatever he wants into whatever he wants. In the case I mentioned above Michael ejected all the energy and matter he desired, Lucifer shaped it into a complete Multiverse, stars, planets, solar systems, Galaxies, Universe’ complete with living beings, GOD’s etc. You name it. The two combined would wipe the floor with team one.

Spectre was a Fallen Angel that rebelled with Lucifer, he asked for God’s forgiveness and redemption. GOD gave him the chance to do this, he erased his mind and turned him into a tool that represented GODS vengeance. That’s where the story starts with him, there is much more character evolution after Christ etc. He is not however a part of GOD himself. He would beat Owen but PR-Beyonder would kill him.

The Word is a different story and is not “Gods voice”. He is the very first being created by GOD himself. He himself is almost GOD but has his limits like PR Beyonder, I think this would be the best fight between the teams.

The last one would get raped just like Mandrakk did to her.

Anyhow the OP description of the team is wrong but cool battle.

Agreed

You know Capitol was banned for trolling right?

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@lol said:

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

@rijehu said:

Team 2 wins. This is almost a mismatch.

Yes it is a mismatch, either member of team 1 solos.

I doubt it.

I don't doubt it, especially considering that Beyonder was stated as being millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined, including LT, and him thinking too hard caused dimensions to collapse in on themselves.

And MM controls all energy, and is also more powerful than everything else in the multiverse combined, although not to the same extent as the Beyonder. Without even knowing how to properly use his powers, he effortlessly used an attack on the Beyonder that could have slagged of billions of dimensions.

Here me out. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the power or the capabilities of Team 1, but I guess I'm not that blown away by the Beyonder or MM hype. Nothing they can do is new to Team 2. Michael has infinite power as well, God's power that is. Creating and destroying infinite multiverses is what he embodies. Lucifer can infinitely warp creation itself to his will, he is God's will embodied. He has infinite control over all things that be, matter, abstracts, and concepts alike. This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think there is any power Beyonder can use, that Michael can't use himself, since they are both infinite. Also, MM's energy and matter manipulation means nothing to Lucifer, who willed those two things into existence himself. Any power used on Lucifer, become a weapon at his disposal. Infinite control > Infinite power IMO.

Also, we have seen that Beyonder while having great power, was weak minded. That is the greatest weakness against him. Lucifer's intellect alone could mind rape Beyonder into killing MM and then himself. I also read that MM had some insecurity issues that could easily be exploited. Lucifer has shown far greater manipulation feats than anyone on either team. This is why he rarely uses his raw power. He usually gets his enemies to bring about their own end. He tanked the blast that could have destroyed the DCU twice, and was unscathed. One was when he was severely weakened. Lucifer and Michael are also able to exist outside of creation so I don't see how destroying everything around them is going to harm them. Michael, even when being "killed" was reformed flawlessly and immediately afterwards. They are basically, Infinite Power and Infinite Control with near flawless intellect.

Adding an Unbound Spectre would make this a bit more difficult for Team 1 since he would be fully unleashed because of the attack on The Presence's city. Also, The Voice is the first concept created when The Presence spoke so his power should rival that of Lucifer and Michael. The Radiant may not be needed here. However, I don't want to be fanboyish so I will say that either team still stands a chance when it comes to pure power, but I think Lucifer's intellect is something to be reckoned with.

Honestly, I take the mismatch thing back. This will be one heck of a battle!

Reality no this isnt a good battle. The only oportunity for Dc team is Lucifer tricks Beyonder and if he fails his team will beaten with ease

Yes is a mismatch in any sense

@auction_sniper said:

You can bring The Presence in, too, and he still wins.

I agree, The Primal Monitor is the only being in the DC universe that could beat this Marvel team.

#41 Posted by Rijehu (471 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:

@rijehu said:

@capitolpunishment said:

@slacker the hacker

said:

"Beyonder is equal to the Prescence he solos "

I think you need to read some more about PR Beyonder, some actual comics with him in it may help. As powerful as he was his powers did have limits, his power was not infinite and he could not exist if he destroyed everything. All of which he which he stated himself on multiple occasions. Saying he is “GOD” is pretty much saying you read a few PR Beyonder respect threads and know nothing about him.

As for the battle, the OP’s description of “team presence” is not completely accurate.

Michael and Lucifer combined have the exact same power as their father does. Michael has unlimited power to create, ( an entire Multiverse in one case). Lucifer has the power to shape whatever he wants into whatever he wants. In the case I mentioned above Michael ejected all the energy and matter he desired, Lucifer shaped it into a complete Multiverse, stars, planets, solar systems, Galaxies, Universe’ complete with living beings, GOD’s etc. You name it. The two combined would wipe the floor with team one.

Spectre was a Fallen Angel that rebelled with Lucifer, he asked for God’s forgiveness and redemption. GOD gave him the chance to do this, he erased his mind and turned him into a tool that represented GODS vengeance. That’s where the story starts with him, there is much more character evolution after Christ etc. He is not however a part of GOD himself. He would beat Owen but PR-Beyonder would kill him.

The Word is a different story and is not “Gods voice”. He is the very first being created by GOD himself. He himself is almost GOD but has his limits like PR Beyonder, I think this would be the best fight between the teams.

The last one would get raped just like Mandrakk did to her.

Anyhow the OP description of the team is wrong but cool battle.

Agreed

You know Capitol was banned for trolling right?

How unfortunate.

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@lol said:

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

@rijehu said:

Team 2 wins. This is almost a mismatch.

Yes it is a mismatch, either member of team 1 solos.

I doubt it.

I don't doubt it, especially considering that Beyonder was stated as being millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined, including LT, and him thinking too hard caused dimensions to collapse in on themselves.

And MM controls all energy, and is also more powerful than everything else in the multiverse combined, although not to the same extent as the Beyonder. Without even knowing how to properly use his powers, he effortlessly used an attack on the Beyonder that could have slagged of billions of dimensions.

Here me out. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the power or the capabilities of Team 1, but I guess I'm not that blown away by the Beyonder or MM hype. Nothing they can do is new to Team 2. Michael has infinite power as well, God's power that is. Creating and destroying infinite multiverses is what he embodies. Lucifer can infinitely warp creation itself to his will, he is God's will embodied. He has infinite control over all things that be, matter, abstracts, and concepts alike. This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think there is any power Beyonder can use, that Michael can't use himself, since they are both infinite. Also, MM's energy and matter manipulation means nothing to Lucifer, who willed those two things into existence himself. Any power used on Lucifer, become a weapon at his disposal. Infinite control > Infinite power IMO.

Also, we have seen that Beyonder while having great power, was weak minded. That is the greatest weakness against him. Lucifer's intellect alone could mind rape Beyonder into killing MM and then himself. I also read that MM had some insecurity issues that could easily be exploited. Lucifer has shown far greater manipulation feats than anyone on either team. This is why he rarely uses his raw power. He usually gets his enemies to bring about their own end. He tanked the blast that could have destroyed the DCU twice, and was unscathed. One was when he was severely weakened. Lucifer and Michael are also able to exist outside of creation so I don't see how destroying everything around them is going to harm them. Michael, even when being "killed" was reformed flawlessly and immediately afterwards. They are basically, Infinite Power and Infinite Control with near flawless intellect.

Adding an Unbound Spectre would make this a bit more difficult for Team 1 since he would be fully unleashed because of the attack on The Presence's city. Also, The Voice is the first concept created when The Presence spoke so his power should rival that of Lucifer and Michael. The Radiant may not be needed here. However, I don't want to be fanboyish so I will say that either team still stands a chance when it comes to pure power, but I think Lucifer's intellect is something to be reckoned with.

Honestly, I take the mismatch thing back. This will be one heck of a battle!

Reality no this isnt a good battle. The only oportunity for Dc team is Lucifer tricks Beyonder and if he fails his team will beaten with ease

Yes is a mismatch in any sense

Eh, I can agree with that when it comes to power. Beyonder's weakness is his mind though, and because the Team knows what they are up against, Lucifer knows about that weakness, which makes it interesting.

@thecoolest said:

@auction_sniper said:

You can bring The Presence in, too, and he still wins.

I agree, The Primal Monitor is the only being in the DC universe that could beat this Marvel team.

The Primal Monitor is not even an actual character. And as far as The Presence goes, he is truly Omnipotent and unlike the Beyonder, he actually is Omniscient. But of course that will start some long pointless debate about how Beyonder stomps everyone in comics because he was a million times stronger than the multiverse and even TOAA and so on and so forth...Powerwise he wins, intellect wise he gets minds raped.

#42 Edited by lol (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@rijehu said:

@lol said:

@rijehu said:

@capitolpunishment said:

@slacker the hacker

said:

"Beyonder is equal to the Prescence he solos "

I think you need to read some more about PR Beyonder, some actual comics with him in it may help. As powerful as he was his powers did have limits, his power was not infinite and he could not exist if he destroyed everything. All of which he which he stated himself on multiple occasions. Saying he is “GOD” is pretty much saying you read a few PR Beyonder respect threads and know nothing about him.

As for the battle, the OP’s description of “team presence” is not completely accurate.

Michael and Lucifer combined have the exact same power as their father does. Michael has unlimited power to create, ( an entire Multiverse in one case). Lucifer has the power to shape whatever he wants into whatever he wants. In the case I mentioned above Michael ejected all the energy and matter he desired, Lucifer shaped it into a complete Multiverse, stars, planets, solar systems, Galaxies, Universe’ complete with living beings, GOD’s etc. You name it. The two combined would wipe the floor with team one.

Spectre was a Fallen Angel that rebelled with Lucifer, he asked for God’s forgiveness and redemption. GOD gave him the chance to do this, he erased his mind and turned him into a tool that represented GODS vengeance. That’s where the story starts with him, there is much more character evolution after Christ etc. He is not however a part of GOD himself. He would beat Owen but PR-Beyonder would kill him.

The Word is a different story and is not “Gods voice”. He is the very first being created by GOD himself. He himself is almost GOD but has his limits like PR Beyonder, I think this would be the best fight between the teams.

The last one would get raped just like Mandrakk did to her.

Anyhow the OP description of the team is wrong but cool battle.

Agreed

You know Capitol was banned for trolling right?

How unfortunate.

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@lol said:

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

@rijehu said:

Team 2 wins. This is almost a mismatch.

Yes it is a mismatch, either member of team 1 solos.

I doubt it.

I don't doubt it, especially considering that Beyonder was stated as being millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined, including LT, and him thinking too hard caused dimensions to collapse in on themselves.

And MM controls all energy, and is also more powerful than everything else in the multiverse combined, although not to the same extent as the Beyonder. Without even knowing how to properly use his powers, he effortlessly used an attack on the Beyonder that could have slagged of billions of dimensions.

Here me out. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the power or the capabilities of Team 1, but I guess I'm not that blown away by the Beyonder or MM hype. Nothing they can do is new to Team 2. Michael has infinite power as well, God's power that is. Creating and destroying infinite multiverses is what he embodies. Lucifer can infinitely warp creation itself to his will, he is God's will embodied. He has infinite control over all things that be, matter, abstracts, and concepts alike. This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think there is any power Beyonder can use, that Michael can't use himself, since they are both infinite. Also, MM's energy and matter manipulation means nothing to Lucifer, who willed those two things into existence himself. Any power used on Lucifer, become a weapon at his disposal. Infinite control > Infinite power IMO.

Also, we have seen that Beyonder while having great power, was weak minded. That is the greatest weakness against him. Lucifer's intellect alone could mind rape Beyonder into killing MM and then himself. I also read that MM had some insecurity issues that could easily be exploited. Lucifer has shown far greater manipulation feats than anyone on either team. This is why he rarely uses his raw power. He usually gets his enemies to bring about their own end. He tanked the blast that could have destroyed the DCU twice, and was unscathed. One was when he was severely weakened. Lucifer and Michael are also able to exist outside of creation so I don't see how destroying everything around them is going to harm them. Michael, even when being "killed" was reformed flawlessly and immediately afterwards. They are basically, Infinite Power and Infinite Control with near flawless intellect.

Adding an Unbound Spectre would make this a bit more difficult for Team 1 since he would be fully unleashed because of the attack on The Presence's city. Also, The Voice is the first concept created when The Presence spoke so his power should rival that of Lucifer and Michael. The Radiant may not be needed here. However, I don't want to be fanboyish so I will say that either team still stands a chance when it comes to pure power, but I think Lucifer's intellect is something to be reckoned with.

Honestly, I take the mismatch thing back. This will be one heck of a battle!

Reality no this isnt a good battle. The only oportunity for Dc team is Lucifer tricks Beyonder and if he fails his team will beaten with ease

Yes is a mismatch in any sense

Eh, I can agree with that when it comes to power. Beyonder's weakness is his mind though, and because the Team knows what they are up against, Lucifer knows about that weakness, which makes it interesting.

@thecoolest said:

@auction_sniper said:

You can bring The Presence in, too, and he still wins.

I agree, The Primal Monitor is the only being in the DC universe that could beat this Marvel team.

The Primal Monitor is not even an actual character. And as far as The Presence goes, he is truly Omnipotent and unlike the Beyonder, he actually is Omniscient. But of course that will start some long pointless debate about how Beyonder stomps everyone in comics because he was a million times stronger than the multiverse and even TOAA and so on and so forth...Powerwise he wins, intellect wise he gets minds raped.

For your logic TOAA not be a character too because he say to be the writer but i not wish argument with you because that would be a long discussion without sense and both not wish change our ideas

I know that about the multiverse but he never can beat TOAA, but TOAA can beat him. TOAA is infinite times stronger than the multiverse and no one say Beyonder can beat him. If any say that then he dont know nothing about TOAA

Oh yes in intellect you can beat him

#43 Edited by Rijehu (471 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:

@rijehu said:

@lol said:

@rijehu said:

@capitolpunishment said:

@slacker the hacker

said:

"Beyonder is equal to the Prescence he solos "

I think you need to read some more about PR Beyonder, some actual comics with him in it may help. As powerful as he was his powers did have limits, his power was not infinite and he could not exist if he destroyed everything. All of which he which he stated himself on multiple occasions. Saying he is “GOD” is pretty much saying you read a few PR Beyonder respect threads and know nothing about him.

As for the battle, the OP’s description of “team presence” is not completely accurate.

Michael and Lucifer combined have the exact same power as their father does. Michael has unlimited power to create, ( an entire Multiverse in one case). Lucifer has the power to shape whatever he wants into whatever he wants. In the case I mentioned above Michael ejected all the energy and matter he desired, Lucifer shaped it into a complete Multiverse, stars, planets, solar systems, Galaxies, Universe’ complete with living beings, GOD’s etc. You name it. The two combined would wipe the floor with team one.

Spectre was a Fallen Angel that rebelled with Lucifer, he asked for God’s forgiveness and redemption. GOD gave him the chance to do this, he erased his mind and turned him into a tool that represented GODS vengeance. That’s where the story starts with him, there is much more character evolution after Christ etc. He is not however a part of GOD himself. He would beat Owen but PR-Beyonder would kill him.

The Word is a different story and is not “Gods voice”. He is the very first being created by GOD himself. He himself is almost GOD but has his limits like PR Beyonder, I think this would be the best fight between the teams.

The last one would get raped just like Mandrakk did to her.

Anyhow the OP description of the team is wrong but cool battle.

Agreed

You know Capitol was banned for trolling right?

How unfortunate.

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@rijehu said:

@hulkman123 said:

@lol said:

@jwwprod said:

Either Beyonder or Molecule Man solos.

@rijehu said:

Team 2 wins. This is almost a mismatch.

Yes it is a mismatch, either member of team 1 solos.

I doubt it.

I don't doubt it, especially considering that Beyonder was stated as being millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse combined, including LT, and him thinking too hard caused dimensions to collapse in on themselves.

And MM controls all energy, and is also more powerful than everything else in the multiverse combined, although not to the same extent as the Beyonder. Without even knowing how to properly use his powers, he effortlessly used an attack on the Beyonder that could have slagged of billions of dimensions.

Here me out. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the power or the capabilities of Team 1, but I guess I'm not that blown away by the Beyonder or MM hype. Nothing they can do is new to Team 2. Michael has infinite power as well, God's power that is. Creating and destroying infinite multiverses is what he embodies. Lucifer can infinitely warp creation itself to his will, he is God's will embodied. He has infinite control over all things that be, matter, abstracts, and concepts alike. This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think there is any power Beyonder can use, that Michael can't use himself, since they are both infinite. Also, MM's energy and matter manipulation means nothing to Lucifer, who willed those two things into existence himself. Any power used on Lucifer, become a weapon at his disposal. Infinite control > Infinite power IMO.

Also, we have seen that Beyonder while having great power, was weak minded. That is the greatest weakness against him. Lucifer's intellect alone could mind rape Beyonder into killing MM and then himself. I also read that MM had some insecurity issues that could easily be exploited. Lucifer has shown far greater manipulation feats than anyone on either team. This is why he rarely uses his raw power. He usually gets his enemies to bring about their own end. He tanked the blast that could have destroyed the DCU twice, and was unscathed. One was when he was severely weakened. Lucifer and Michael are also able to exist outside of creation so I don't see how destroying everything around them is going to harm them. Michael, even when being "killed" was reformed flawlessly and immediately afterwards. They are basically, Infinite Power and Infinite Control with near flawless intellect.

Adding an Unbound Spectre would make this a bit more difficult for Team 1 since he would be fully unleashed because of the attack on The Presence's city. Also, The Voice is the first concept created when The Presence spoke so his power should rival that of Lucifer and Michael. The Radiant may not be needed here. However, I don't want to be fanboyish so I will say that either team still stands a chance when it comes to pure power, but I think Lucifer's intellect is something to be reckoned with.

Honestly, I take the mismatch thing back. This will be one heck of a battle!

Reality no this isnt a good battle. The only oportunity for Dc team is Lucifer tricks Beyonder and if he fails his team will beaten with ease

Yes is a mismatch in any sense

Eh, I can agree with that when it comes to power. Beyonder's weakness is his mind though, and because the Team knows what they are up against, Lucifer knows about that weakness, which makes it interesting.

@thecoolest said:

@auction_sniper said:

You can bring The Presence in, too, and he still wins.

I agree, The Primal Monitor is the only being in the DC universe that could beat this Marvel team.

The Primal Monitor is not even an actual character. And as far as The Presence goes, he is truly Omnipotent and unlike the Beyonder, he actually is Omniscient. But of course that will start some long pointless debate about how Beyonder stomps everyone in comics because he was a million times stronger than the multiverse and even TOAA and so on and so forth...Powerwise he wins, intellect wise he gets minds raped.

For your logic TOAA not be a character too because he say to be the writer but i not wish argument with you because that would be a long discussion without sense and both not wish change our ideas

I know that about the multiverse but he never can beat TOAA, but TOAA can beat him. TOAA is infinite times stronger than the multiverse and no one say Beyonder can beat him. If any say that then he dont know nothing about TOAA

Oh yes in intellect you can beat him

Agreed

#44 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rijehu said:

He tanked the blast that could have destroyed the DCU twice, and was unscathed. One was when he was severely weakened.

He never tanked the blast, while weakened. Elaine absorbed all that power.

Lucifer and Michael are also able to exist outside of creation so I don't see how destroying everything around them is going to harm them.

So......why then was he unable to leave the Presence's creation again? And had to work for heaven to attain the letter of Passage?

It's been outright stated on panel that Lucifer can't leave creation under his own power.

Adding an Unbound Spectre would make this a bit more difficult for Team 1 since he would be fully unleashed because of the attack on The Presence's city.

First off, The scan in the OP is of Hal-Spectre. Secondly, i would like to hear a feat for Unbound Spectre which even remotely comes close (just a bit close) to anything Owen or Beyonder have displayed/shown.

The Voice is the first concept created when The Presence spoke so his power should rival that of Lucifer and Michael.

The Voice and the Presence are one and the same in current continuity and for the most part of Pre-FP continuity.......before that, The Voice wasn't the first concept created by the Presence but merely the Spectre's master, who's dissociated from the Presence.

The OP is wrong by saying that the Word is God's Voice, because it's established that the Voice was the one who created the word in the first place.

#45 Posted by mikep12 (4142 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer: People assumed since The Presence himself called these guys in he'd be fully amping them which makes no sense since Presence is omnipotent and could snap both Owen and Beyonder out of existence

#46 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@mikep12 said:

@rolldestroyer: People assumed since The Presence himself called these guys in he'd be fully amping them which makes no sense.

Yeah. The aspects of the Presence aren't amped from him (Spectre/Logoz being the only exception).

since Presence is omnipotent and could snap both Owen and Beyonder out of existence

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Presence most likely is more powerful than the Beyonder and Owen, but The Presence himself has been usurped.

#47 Posted by mikep12 (4142 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer: Thats cause most the time he chooses not to intervene example when anti-monitor was absorbing the multiverse presence choose not to intervene but when thanos had the infinity gauntlet that was toaa and if he had troubles with beyonder that wouldn't make him omnipotent though he is

#48 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio
@mikep12 said:

@rolldestroyer: Thats cause most the time he chooses not to intervene example when anti-monitor was absorbing the multiverse presence choose not to intervene but when thanos had the infinity gauntlet that was toaa and if he had troubles with beyonder that wouldn't make him omnipotent though he is

Not sure i follow. What does The Presence (who btw at the time of COIE, didn't even exist), not interfering have to do with him getting usurped/overthrown?

#49 Posted by mikep12 (4142 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer: I thought you were trying to say Beyonder and Owen would beat him or have a good fight with him which they wouldn't or Presence wouldn't be omnipotent which he is

#50 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@mikep12 said:

@rolldestroyer: I thought you were trying to say Beyonder and Owen would beat him or have a good fight with him which they wouldn't

I disagreed with your claim that he'd blink them out of existence. I agreed that he's more powerful.

or Presence wouldn't be omnipotent which he is

Hmm.....i seem to remember Carnivore usurping the Presence after he threatened to kill one of his aspects through his possession of the 3 angels.........no?