Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs. TOAA

I just re-read Secret Wars today. I'll admit that I forgot how powerful SW Beyonder really was. However, do u guys think he can take on TOAA?

"Stalemate. "

" @Morpheus_ said:

"Stalemate. "

I say TOAA 7/10 although nothing would come easy against the Beyonder. "

" Stalemate... God cannot kill God
"

TOAA curbstomps.

Pre-ret Beyonder was not god, and he was not TOAA.

TOAA is above all.

" TOAA curbstomps.

Pre-ret Beyonder was not god, and he was not TOAA.

TOAA is above all. "

TOAA wins here....

" @High Revolutionary said:

" TOAA curbstomps.

Pre-ret Beyonder was not god, and he was not TOAA.

TOAA is above all. "

Actually PR Beyonder was TOAA of his own actuality (according to Stan Lee), the purpose of his original existence was to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and structure with their own supreme beings. "

"@Tevnoba said:

" @High Revolutionary said:

" TOAA curbstomps.

Pre-ret Beyonder was not god, and he was not TOAA.

TOAA is above all. "

Actually PR Beyonder was TOAA of his own actuality (according to Stan Lee), the purpose of his original existence was to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and structure with their own supreme beings. "

Stan Lee had nothing to do with writing Pre-retcon Beyonder.  It was all Shooter (and some Zeck).  Shooter was later fired by Marvel for reasons which included the fact that he was writing all his stuff while "flying by the seat of his pants".  This was his own admission.  Marvel then retconned Shooter's character because of this.TOAA was around long before Beyonder was ever written and there was no indication, whatsoever, that he was in fact the one above all.  Ever after the retcon, TOAA is still above all.  TOAA is a separate concept altogether."

beyonder said he created the multiverse.
i thought toaa made it.
 
are the they the same person?
 
also are the infinits from beyonders multiverse?

TOAA wins

" @Tevnoba said:

" @High Revolutionary said:

" TOAA curbstomps.

Pre-ret Beyonder was not god, and he was not TOAA.

TOAA is above all. "

Actually PR Beyonder was TOAA of his own actuality (according to Stan Lee), the purpose of his original existence was to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and structure with their own supreme beings. "

Stan Lee had nothing to do with writing Pre-retcon Beyonder.  It was all Shooter (and some Zeck).  Shooter was later fired by Marvel for reasons which included the fact that he was writing all his stuff while "flying by the seat of his pants".  This was his own admission.  Marvel then retconned Shooter's character because of this.TOAA was around long before Beyonder was ever written and there was no indication, whatsoever, that he was in fact the one above all.  Ever after the retcon, TOAA is still above all.  TOAA is a separate concept altogether. "

" beyonder said he created the multiverse. i thought toaa made it.  are the they the same person?  also are the infinits from beyonders multiverse? "

I'm not gonna go into a bunch of crap so im just gonna say this... 
Beyonder was basically TOAA before TOAA was established. 
"God before Genesis"

"

I'm not gonna go into a bunch of crap so im just gonna say this... 
Beyonder was basically TOAA before TOAA was established. 
"God before Genesis"

"

Nice to see some acceptance of stated facts,but you do understand you revived the thread which for awhile was one of the most tension filled deabtes on the vine?

How did we know that TOAA was not always in existence but introduced at a later point?  
 
Just because you don't know something is there doesn't mean its not.

I'm not gonna go into a bunch of crap so im just gonna say this... 

Beyonder was basically TOAA before TOAA was established. 

 
"God before Genesis"

Stalemate.!/thread

@BarelyAverage: I'm saying it because Marvel cannot have two omnipotent beings.

@Tevnoba: Pr Beyonder cant be Toaa Beasuse they cannot exiest 2 toaas Beacuse Nothing Can Possible To be 2 of the same creator in the same Universe (Marvel Or Dc Or Capcom etc.) THEY CANT! Nothing Can Possivle Two of the same Creator in one universe They can just be one in one multiverse

So Toaa Wins

Beyonder Can do Much Damage But Toaaa is Unmortal Too Beyonder But Beyonder cant Just take Off the powers of Tooa Tooa can

Reply PLZ

isnt toaa like omnipotent?

the beyonder is probably too, but toaa is like transcendentally omnipotent guys

Beyonder and TOAA are two separate beings. And no it would not be a stalemate because there are different levels of Omnipotence. I'm still trying to figure out who is more powerful between the Beyonder and TOAA. By the way the Pre-Retcon Beyonder still exists but he is within his own near infinite universe called the Beyond-Realm. The Post-Retcon Beyonder is known as 'Kosmos'. She is a mutant inhuman that wields a cosmic cube after absorbing the half that Molecule Man's son wielded. The Heart of the Infinite is basically a symbolic representation of TOAA created by him, that was used as an power source for certain beings like Thanos, the order of the heart, and Akhenaten, and also as a energy center in the center of the Earth 616 universe as a boundary between the rest of the Megaverse (Omniverse) and the multiverse and to keep the Megaverse from collapsing. Eventually there were fundamental flaws in the heart such as letting a being like Thanos wield power of that scale, and other abnormalities with the universe. Therefore, technically the Heart is basically a nigh-omnipotent portion of the infinite godlike godly entity The One Above All. So the One Above All at one point sort of represented Stan Lee/Jack Kirby/the rest of the staff of marvel, whereas the Beyonder sort of represented Jim Shooter and (Zeck?!). The Pre-Retcon Beyonder is the embodiment of the Beyond-Realm and is the chief of the extra-dimensional race the Beyonders who created the cosmic cubes and Kosmos, but the Maker (one of the Beyonders) put his essence within Kosmos along with molecule man's self made 'son'. Therfore Molecule Man is more powerful than the maker and possibly Cosmos but not the Beyonder. Kosmos later placed profound limitations on herself by removing mr. molecular from her body thus making her a mutant inhuman that is a half (semi) incomplete cosmic cube, and wore clothes and called herself the Maker as well.

Toaa wins 

TOAA, casually.

stalemate

The One Above All wins, effortless curbstomp

Simply look at the name - - The One Above All

@High Revolutionary: right the toaa is God/Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

while Beyonder was just like Living Tribunal

TOAA stomps. Beyonder isn't omnipotent. That's just fanboys talking.

@HAVICKGREEN said:

@High Revolutionary: right the toaa is God/Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

while Beyonder was just like Living Tribunal

Beyonder is much more powerful and far above LT.

@Shuma-Gorath said:

Simply look at the name - - The One Above All

The name doesn't matter. I could say, Beyonder is beyond TOAA, and TOAA is above Beyonder.

But seriously, TOAA stomps here, he has no equal.... And I recall Beyonder not being able to bring back Lady Death, that alone is enough proof that Beyonder is not omnipotent....

@kingkronos said:

@HAVICKGREEN said:

@High Revolutionary: right the toaa is God/Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

while Beyonder was just like Living Tribunal

Beyonder is much more powerful and far above LT.

IS? No.

He's been retconned into a living cosmic cube, an infinite and a mutant. All incarnations far below LT in hierarchy.

Was? That's arguable.

The only on-panel evidence is that LT (or most likely an M-body of LT) watched Beyonder kill death and didn't intervene.

But how do we know LT didn't want to? We don't. Arguments to the contrary are mere embellishments and exaggerations. As far as Marvel is currently concerned, Beyonder WAS never truly more powerful than LT. Shooter's SW was shot down by Marvel for the fact that they didn't agree with the hierarchy Shooter wanted to create for the Beyonder.

@High Revolutionary said:

@kingkronos said:

@HAVICKGREEN said:

@High Revolutionary: right the toaa is God/Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

while Beyonder was just like Living Tribunal

Beyonder is much more powerful and far above LT.

IS? No.

He's been retconned into a living cosmic cube, an infinite and a mutant. All incarnations far below LT in hierarchy.

Was? That's arguable.

The only on-panel evidence is that LT (or most likely an M-body of LT) watched Beyonder kill death and didn't intervene.

But how do we know LT didn't want to? We don't. Arguments to the contrary are mere embellishments and exaggerations. As far as Marvel is currently concerned, Beyonder WAS never truly more powerful than LT. Shooter's SW was shot down by Marvel for the fact that they didn't agree with the hierarchy Shooter wanted to create for the Beyonder.

Beyonder was said to be more powerful than the entire marvel multiverse by millions of times. LT including.

Stalemate in my opinion.

TOAA easily. 

Scanthan detains both of them

The One above all.. beyonder comes in 'all'

@King Saturn said:

Stalemate... God cannot kill God

TOAA wins

@eliasw123: they can have 2 and also once stan lee dies TECHNICALY toaa dies

@unkillable: Why would you bump this thread?

@god_spawn@citizenbane@deranged_midget@mercy_