Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs Thanos w/ HOTU vs Lucifer Morningstar; who is the strongest?

Somebody show me a scan to make me believe thanos is above the beyonder.....

@Sniber: All realities =/= omniverse. Marvel has never, ever shown anything "superior to an omniverse". Nothing has, minus Hinduism or some other anime/show or something else I don't know of. Besides, an omniverse encompasses all realities anyways.

@Detroit101 said:

Somebody show me a scan to make me believe thanos is above the beyonder.....

Have you not read all the arguments presented above?

So is it safe to say that Lucifer dies in the first few seconds of this fight? And that this really Thanos w/ HOTU vs PR Beyonder?

@Killemall: Which ones, specifically?

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

So is it safe to say that Lucifer dies in the first few seconds of this fight? And that this really Thanos w/ HOTU vs PR Beyonder?

To be honest, these characters are beyond time.

@ShootingNova said:

I thought it was said somewhere that TOAA was the most powerful abstracts.....?

Not that i have seen.

@ShootingNova said:

@Killemall: Which ones, specifically?

My first argument on page 2.

@ShootingNova said:

@Sniber: All realities =/= omniverse. Marvel has never, ever shown anything "superior to an omniverse". Nothing has, minus Hinduism or some other anime/show or something else I don't know of. Besides, an omniverse encompasses all realities anyways.

TOAA is definately beyond marvel omniverse he is representation of a real man(stan lee). and plz tell me which anime show you are talking about. I am a great fan of anime.

@Killemall: I've read that.

@Sniber: So......? That doesn't make him "beyond omniversal", he has time and again been classed as omniversal, in fact your Marvel wiki thing has him marked as multiversal in the first place (yes, I know wikis are editable and not reliable, and so on) but regardless I think my point is understandable.

I don't know what anime. I said there might be some anime about that. I don't know a whole lot of anime.

@ShootingNova said:

@jobbernos said:

lucifer or beyonder... jobbernos is a non factor

Seriously? Thanos being a non-factor?

yes

@jobbernos: Well, he isn't.

@ShootingNova said:

@jobbernos: Well, he isn't.

yes he is

@jobbernos: I do not know how it is even possible that you can believe that Lucifer stands against PR Beyonder, but HotU Thanos cannot. HotU Thanos has the power of TOAA (the power of which nothing is impossible {in other words, omnipotence, and the only truly omnipotent being in Marvel is TOAA}). HotU has absorbed and killed all the Abstracts, including the LT and excluding TOAA and the Fulcrum if you consider them to be abstracts (plus they can be considered one and the same). What have either of the other two done to compare to this? None of them have absorbed and destroyed all things.

@ShootingNova: His user name is Jobbernos, i though that should have been a clear indication he hates Thanos.

Pre-Recton Beyonder is insanely powerful as is Lucy but neither can hope to truly match Thanos with the HOTU.

Thanos royally curbstomps.

@Killemall said:

@ShootingNova: His user name is Jobbernos, i though that should have been a clear indication he hates Thanos.

I still tend to like to think that people can still be reasoned with. Unless they are utter trolls.

@Killemall said:

@ShootingNova: His user name is Jobbernos, i though that should have been a clear indication he hates Thanos.

Sorry about the reply to an old post but have you seen his profile page? Man he hates Thanos. It seriously made me ROFL

@laflux said:

@Killemall said:

@ShootingNova: His user name is Jobbernos, i though that should have been a clear indication he hates Thanos.

Sorry about the reply to an old post but have you seen his profile page? Man he hates Thanos. It seriously made me ROFL

Lol looks like it, and none of them are actually legit loses, which was the weird part.

@Killemall said:

@laflux said:

@Killemall said:

@ShootingNova: His user name is Jobbernos, i though that should have been a clear indication he hates Thanos.

Sorry about the reply to an old post but have you seen his profile page? Man he hates Thanos. It seriously made me ROFL

Lol looks like it, and none of them are actually legit loses, which was the weird part.

QFT

@Killemall:

@Detroit101: I am surprised to seeing that comment after the story was quoted for you. Fair enough lets try again.

Marvel Universe The End 06

Gallery

Pr beyonder would win . Lucifer will trick Thanos out of his power

PR Beyonder > Thanos w/ HOTU > Lucifer Morningstar

Beyonder or a stalemate between him and Thanos.

Beyonder

Lucifer is the second most powerful in the dc universe but all three are omponint. Thanos is the most powerful here the runner up is the beyonder so lucifer will trick thanos out of his power and then beyonder will destroy lucifer

Raw power contest? Y es Lucy gets stomped.

But I am certain he could win without warping reality at all. He would probably just manipulate the duo into killing each other. Rather easily IMO.

this

I never for a second thought the HOTU extended beyond the physical universes as we know it. The Beyond is the container for all the marvel universes, like a box in a bigger box. The HOTU is the smaller box inside the larger box. The Large box is the Beyonder.

Beyonder would giggle at the HOTU ( thats just my definition of what it was capable of ) Heart of the UNIVERSE, not heart of TOAA. The HOTU represented the power to control all marvel realities, IE every normal universe and pocket dimension. Basically, it is the Living Tribunal. Something with ultimate domain over the physical universes. If Beyonder were inside any of those universes, he should lose by rights of the HOTU having prime authority. Even if Beyonder has a lot more power, so long as he resides in the universe or any marvel continuity, he would lose automatically because the HOTU granted the user ultimate domain.

The Beyond had more power in terms of destructive capability than the HOTU, because as he said the entire marvel multiverse is nothing or like a drop in the sea compared to the Beyond. But, I don't think the HOTU extended beyond that.

The Omniverse should be all things. The Beyond, all marvel universes, everything that there is in comic books should = Omniverse for Marvel. All pocket dimensions, all spaces that exist. The container for the beyond, and its container, TOAAs house, whatever. All things in Marvel is the Omniverse. The Multiverse should be all physical realities inside of the Beyond. The Beyond isn't part of the Multiverse, its the container for it. Don't get into the reality stuff like that term extending to our actual universe here in the real world. That is literally the dumbest argument ever. So just drop that ;)

In raw power: Beyonder > HOTU > Lucifer ( he cannot destroy every single continuity )

If Beyonder were standing in any Marvel continuity: HOTU > Beyonder > Lucifer

PR-Beyonder comes out on top.

Lucifer has a chance via manipulation.

Thanos. He's a bit more powerful than the other two.

Thanos: Nigh omnipotent, nigh omniscience. Couldn't fix the flaw without his death, didn't know how to fix the flaw without dying.Absorbed everything IN the universe. But not outside it such as Adam warlock, mistress death, gommarro?(name of that child anchor..) in the process of saving the universe he died(respect that)

Lucifer: Nigh omni. Omnipresent debatable. Cannot create something out of nothing on a large scale(that's Michael's job) does not lie, his power was used against him. He cannot die, defeated the 2 giant claiming to be post of the endless(they got hold of Yahweh power, Lucifer would lost) took creation busting attack and used it to create a multiverse. His presence destroyed mansions of silence which houses countless creations etc, but he stopped the destruction long enough to rescue his team. Is above death.

Beyonder: Nigh omni. Was not omnipotent(I don't really need to explain this as ppl already seen to know that) nor omniscience, omnipresent debatable. Was STATED to be million x more powerful than the multiverse (which doesn't make him omnipotent, should be infinitely x more powerful) made every one piss their pants(respect) needed to use up large portion of his power to kill death and had hard time restoring her.

I actually think Lucifer>thanos > Beyonder

HOTU = Fragment of TOAAs power

Lucifer Morning star = Second to god

PR Beyonder = The TOAA of his own multiverse

I say Beyonder takes this, cause jerry curls guys...cause jerry curls.

@one_they_fear: Beyonder, Toaa in his own multiverse? Just Beyonder? Last time I check so was Lucifer and HOTU.

IMO:

Thanos HOTU

PR Beyonder

Lucifer

whenever I am reminded of Beyonder being retcon'd just destroys my brain. I think an early Beyonder takes this.

I really expected Beyondergod to troll here.

It's fine I am gonna be a jerk(feeling blue) and bump this as a perfect bait for him.

@skyroid: Lucifer morning star is second to god, HOTU is a one use plot device that gives the user a tiny fraction of TOAAs power granting them the power to change the multiverse once however they see fit. Beyonder is the TOAA of his own multiverse so yes he wins, hes not part of TOAAs world hence his name the "Beyonder" and there's no way to defeat him unless he himself wills to be defeated.

in Secret War II Molecule man collected all powers from multiverse( many universes) still wasnt enough to beat beyonder lol. HOTU is only power from one universe do your math

HOTU <powers from multiverse that collected by molecule man

Beyonder then htou then lucifer if he had the demuirgos power he'd stalemate thanos

Beyonder wins in sheer power. nothing short off TOAA or presence(a true omnipotent) can win in a sheer powercontest with Beyonder.

I think it is obvious. Beyonder from Secret Wars I was just as powerful as The One Above All himself. Why? According to Jim Shooter and Stan Lee, the being known as the one from beyond (or Beyonder) was the Creator god of a parallel multiverse - OAA created Marvel (Main) Multiverse, not every multiverse in Marvel Comics - , so yeah, he is truly equal to OAA himself. He was also said to be "like God before Genesis", "millions of times more powerful than the entire Marvel Multiverse combined", "mightier being in the Multiverse", and shown creating his own Multiverse (third scan).

Although HOTU Thanos and Lucifer Morningstar are also very powerful beings, they couldn't do anything against the Beyonder, because they're both less powerful than OAA / Presence.

Gallery

@guthixian: Lucifer is only Universal, he gets curbstomped by both of them.

And Presence is not Omnipotent, he is Nigh-Omnipotent.

@guthixian: Ignore Mazerill he's way to bias to be taking seriously.

Aside from that beyonder wins but beyonder is nowhere as powerful as what your'e trying to claim.

@mazeraiii: So are you trying to make me believe that Lucifer Morningstar, a nigh-omnipotent being, with the power of Michael Demiurgos, is an universal-level character? Surely makes sense! L O L. And you're saying that Presence, Yahweh/God/Creator himself, is not an omnipotent being. Sigh, don't even reply me, please.

@dawnone: Sure, SW II Beyonder is nowhere as powerful as I said, and the explaining is very simple: he was ins OAA's Creation, not in his own, so he could never be truly omnipotent there. However, inside Beyond-Realm he is so powerful as The One Above All is in Marvel Main Multiverse, since Beyond-Realm is his own multiverse, his own creation.