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#1 Posted by Hemlin (415 posts) - - Show Bio


#2 Posted by Killemall (18746 posts) - - Show Bio

Well COIE Anti Monitor, as powerful as he may be, is actually a little out of his league here. The biggest question is Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs HOTU Thanos which is extremely hard to argue. 2 guys with uber limit, one only lost because he wanted to feel how it would be to be mortal, and the other never really lost but sacrificed himself for the greater good, neither of them had anyone acknowledged as either their equal or superior (please dont mention TOAA, that character pretty much never appears).

As a huge fan of Thanos, going with HOTU Thanos :)

#3 Posted by justleader (1741 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos HOTU wins here.

#4 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20963 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Well COIE Anti Monitor, as powerful as he may be, is actually a little out of his league here. The biggest question is Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs HOTU Thanos which is extremely hard to argue. 2 guys with uber limit, one only lost because he wanted to feel how it would be to be mortal, and the other never really lost but sacrificed himself for the greater good, neither of them had anyone acknowledged as either their equal or superior (please dont mention TOAA, that character pretty much never appears).

As a huge fan of Thanos, going with HOTU Thanos :)

This.

"Be water my friend"

#5 Posted by comicbooksareawesome123 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

1.Thanos

2. Pre Retcon Beyonder

3. COIE Anti Monitor

#6 Posted by laflux (20344 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

@Killemall said:

Well COIE Anti Monitor, as powerful as he may be, is actually a little out of his league here. The biggest question is Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs HOTU Thanos which is extremely hard to argue. 2 guys with uber limit, one only lost because he wanted to feel how it would be to be mortal, and the other never really lost but sacrificed himself for the greater good, neither of them had anyone acknowledged as either their equal or superior (please dont mention TOAA, that character pretty much never appears).

As a huge fan of Thanos, going with HOTU Thanos :)

This.

"Be water my friend"

co-signed

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#7 Posted by Hemlin (415 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: You make a good point

#8 Posted by ShootingNova (20843 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti-Monitor is not in these guys' leagues.......

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#9 Posted by MonsterStomp (24357 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

Anti-Monitor is not in these guys' leagues.......

I voted for him because I felt sorry :(

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#10 Posted by ShootingNova (20843 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp: LOL.

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#11 Posted by SithLantern93 (2426 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Anti-Monty is coming to eat your planet

#12 Posted by BigCimmerian (10050 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti Monitor gets stepped on, while Thanos beats Beyonder.

#13 Posted by whydama (1126 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Well COIE Anti Monitor, as powerful as he may be, is actually a little out of his league here. The biggest question is Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs HOTU Thanos which is extremely hard to argue. 2 guys with uber limit, one only lost because he wanted to feel how it would be to be mortal, and the other never really lost but sacrificed himself for the greater good, neither of them had anyone acknowledged as either their equal or superior (please dont mention TOAA, that character pretty much never appears).

As a huge fan of Thanos, going with HOTU Thanos :)

+1

#14 Posted by kingkronos (2532 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti Monitor is way out of his league. This is Thanos vs Beyonder

@comicbooksareawesome123 said:

1.Thanos

2. Pre Retcon Beyonder

3. COIE Anti Monitor

#15 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Well COIE Anti Monitor, as powerful as he may be, is actually a little out of his league here. The biggest question is Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs HOTU Thanos which is extremely hard to argue. 2 guys with uber limit, one only lost because he wanted to feel how it would be to be mortal, and the other never really lost but sacrificed himself for the greater good, neither of them had anyone acknowledged as either their equal or superior (please dont mention TOAA, that character pretty much never appears).

As a huge fan of Thanos, going with HOTU Thanos :)

I'm a big fan of Thanos too, but he does not beat PR Beyonder here.

You have to take into consideration that Thanos wasn't the only one that had the HOTU. Akhenaten was one of the few as well.

Also take into consideration that HOTU wasn't the only power to wipe out everything in a Multiverse --BUT-- Oblivion. (and Warlock) You have to remember, after Thanos 'absorbed' the Living Tribunal and Eternity/Infinity..... Death, Oblivion, and Warlock still existed. Warlock wasn't effected by the 'Heart of the Universe' because he was OUTSIDE of the Multiverse.... When he stepped in to confront Thanos, he told him, you are in Oblivion.

In contrast.

PR-Beyonder did not only defeat and make a fool out of ALL THE MULTIVERSE ABSTRACTS. He wiped out the entire Multiverse better than Thanos and warped right back to prove a point and not having to sacrifice himself or any power. Also, when Beyonder did this, he was able to exist outside the Omniverse (Extradimensional 'White" Space). When Thanos destroyed the multiverse, he was still in it ~ Inside Oblivion.....

PR-Beyonder displayed more power.

Most of the extradimensional deities do.

However, since I'm a bigger fan of Thanos compared to Beyonder, I'm still going to choose Thanos, but not because of the HOTU, but because he can somehow convince Beyonder to let him borrow his power to let him do as he wishes.

#16 Posted by JediXMan (32263 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Thanos.

Poor AM...

Moderator
#17 Posted by Killemall (18746 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

I'm a big fan of Thanos too, but he does not beat PR Beyonder here.

You have to take into consideration that Thanos wasn't the only one that had the HOTU. Akhenaten was one of the few as well.

Also take into consideration that HOTU wasn't the only power to wipe out everything in a Multiverse --BUT-- Oblivion. (and Warlock) You have to remember, after Thanos 'absorbed' the Living Tribunal and Eternity/Infinity..... Death, Oblivion, and Warlock still existed. Warlock wasn't effected by the 'Heart of the Universe' because he was OUTSIDE of the Multiverse.... When he stepped in to confront Thanos, he told him, you are in Oblivion.

In contrast.

PR-Beyonder did not only defeat and make a fool out of ALL THE MULTIVERSE ABSTRACTS. He wiped out the entire Multiverse better than Thanos and warped right back to prove a point and not having to sacrifice himself or any power. Also, when Beyonder did this, he was able to exist outside the Omniverse (Extradimensional 'White" Space). When Thanos destroyed the multiverse, he was still in it ~ Inside Oblivion.....

PR-Beyonder displayed more power.

Most of the extradimensional deities do.

However, since I'm a bigger fan of Thanos compared to Beyonder, I'm still going to choose Thanos, but not because of the HOTU, but because he can somehow convince Beyonder to let him borrow his power to let him do as he wishes.

Ok firstly Oblivion thing was never mentioned, you are assuming that once he absorbed everything the void that was left was Oblivion. Also that was not because he couldnt, if he can absorb LT with no proble i see no reason why he couldnt.

Also when did PR Beyonder wipe multiversal abstract, i do not remember that in Secret War 2 at all, scans of this coz i honestly dont remember.

Also well Thanos dealt with LT easier than Beyonder did with death :p meh!

#18 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

I'm a big fan of Thanos too, but he does not beat PR Beyonder here.

You have to take into consideration that Thanos wasn't the only one that had the HOTU. Akhenaten was one of the few as well.

Also take into consideration that HOTU wasn't the only power to wipe out everything in a Multiverse --BUT-- Oblivion. (and Warlock) You have to remember, after Thanos 'absorbed' the Living Tribunal and Eternity/Infinity..... Death, Oblivion, and Warlock still existed. Warlock wasn't effected by the 'Heart of the Universe' because he was OUTSIDE of the Multiverse.... When he stepped in to confront Thanos, he told him, you are in Oblivion.

In contrast.

PR-Beyonder did not only defeat and make a fool out of ALL THE MULTIVERSE ABSTRACTS. He wiped out the entire Multiverse better than Thanos and warped right back to prove a point and not having to sacrifice himself or any power. Also, when Beyonder did this, he was able to exist outside the Omniverse (Extradimensional 'White" Space). When Thanos destroyed the multiverse, he was still in it ~ Inside Oblivion.....

PR-Beyonder displayed more power.

Most of the extradimensional deities do.

However, since I'm a bigger fan of Thanos compared to Beyonder, I'm still going to choose Thanos, but not because of the HOTU, but because he can somehow convince Beyonder to let him borrow his power to let him do as he wishes.

Ok firstly Oblivion thing was never mentioned, you are assuming that once he absorbed everything the void that was left was Oblivion. Also that was not because he couldnt, if he can absorb LT with no proble i see no reason why he couldnt.

Also when did PR Beyonder wipe multiversal abstract, i do not remember that in Secret War 2 at all, scans of this coz i honestly dont remember.

Also well Thanos dealt with LT easier than Beyonder did with death :p meh!

If you read SW2, you will understand how and why it was easy for Thanos to absorb Living Tribunal.
The 'Void' Is Oblivion. Readers should already know this because the illustration shows Infinity, Eternity, Living Tribunal being absorbed. 
 
And when that happens.... Stated by Oblivion himself. 
 
"When existence disappears, it is brought back to me."  
 
Yes, PR-Beyonder wiped them all out by saying they never existed in the 1st place. The only reason they exist is because all sentient beings in the universe have ideas and those ideas manifested into those 'Abstract Beings'. Beyonder depowered them to the point that none of the Abstracts are no more powerful than a human and that included the Living Tribunal, who had no power at all, but to sit watch and beg as Beyonder has his way of the multiverse. 
 
When it comes to Thanos story arcs and Beyonder story arcs, the entire story is told in metaphor.
#19 Posted by Killemall (18746 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

If you read SW2, you will understand how and why it was easy for Thanos to absorb Living Tribunal.

I have read Secret Wars both 1 and 2 and no i dont understand why its easy for Thanos to absorb the Living Tribunal, so explain plz.

The 'Void' Is Oblivion. Readers should already know this because the illustration shows Infinity, Eternity, Living Tribunal being absorbed. And when that happens.... Stated by Oblivion himself.

Firstly since no mention of Oblivion was mention i am hesistant to accept it. Also even if i am to agree with you it was not because he did could not absorb Oblivion.

Yes, PR-Beyonder wiped them all out by saying they never existed in the 1st place. The only reason they exist is because all sentient beings in the universe have ideas and those ideas manifested into those 'Abstract Beings'. Beyonder depowered them to the point that none of the Abstracts are no more powerful than a human and that included the Living Tribunal, who had no power at all, but to sit watch and beg as Beyonder has his way of the multiverse. When it comes to Thanos story arcs and Beyonder story arcs, the entire story is told in metaphor.

Issue no or scans? Coz i do not remember any of this.

#20 Posted by fondofpacman (584 posts) - - Show Bio

PR Beyonder was too ambiguous as a character to know for sure, but it seems reasonable to assume he was beyond LT based on the way LT was among the abstracts that came to grovel at Beyonder to please stop making rash changes to the omniverse and such.

I think PR Beyonder vs HotU isn't a battle that will ever come to a decisive decision of these forums...not enough info on Beyonder's full abilities IMO.

#21 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. PR Beyonder
  2. HOTU Thanos
  3. COIE Anti-Moniter
#22 Posted by logy5000 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Anti Monitor gets stepped on, while Thanos beats Beyonder.

Hmmm, no. It wouldn't be that easy. AM is definitely not going to win, but he'll put up a fight.

Beyonder is dumb & naiive. Not to mention he's lost to Molecule Man, twice.

Thanos wins this.

#23 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: Anti-Monitor is going to die in the first second of the match.

#24 Posted by logy5000 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@logy5000: Anti-Monitor is going to die in the first second of the match.

Anti-Monitor beat a highly amped Spectre rather easily, with no damage done to him. And he easily survived the destruction & recreation of a billion universes simultaneously. I'd say that puts him in the same league as Living Tribunal. (He's still below LT, but close to his level.)

#25 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: Yet he almost died to Supergirl. He's fighting versus two omnipotent individuals, he's going to be blinked out of existence with a passing thought.

#26 Posted by BigCimmerian (10050 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@logy5000: Anti-Monitor is going to die in the first second of the match.

Anti-Monitor beat a highly amped Spectre rather easily, with no damage done to him. And he easily survived the destruction & recreation of a billion universes simultaneously. I'd say that puts him in the same league as Living Tribunal. (He's still below LT, but close to his level.)

It doesn't matter, Spectre is nothing compared to Beyonder and Thanos with HOTU.

#27 Posted by logy5000 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: That was one of the biggest PIS moments in DC history. He wasn't at his height in that battle. At his height he was far above an amped Spectre. Neither of them are omnipotet since Beyonder has had his power drained & has lost to Molecule Man. If Thanos were omnipotent, he would've wiped out Marvel w/ a thought. Instead, he had to overpower them 1 by 1.

#28 Posted by logy5000 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian: Sure he is. An unbound, amped Spectre would be around LT level. That's still below them, but it's comparable. Also, AM has tanked explosions larger than these 2 have ever mustered; as far as I know. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

#29 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: He never lost to Molecule Man. Also Beyonder never lost his powers, he thought he did, until he figured out he can't lose his powers. Beyonder and Molecule Man were slagging multiverses with each swing of their hands. Also Beyonder was casually warping reality by just thinking and was going to destroy the multiverse, until people managed to change his mind. Anti-Monitor really has nothing on them, it took him an undefined amount of time to destroy 99% of the multiverse and had almost died on several occasions. Also what makes you think the Spectre was really any stronger? He was fighting in his weakest host with all of the magical power of DC. The same magical power which Spectre nearly eliminated on his own when he was on his quest to destroy magic in DC. So I really don't see how this is even a fair fight. No matter how strong someone is they can never beat an omnipotent, they have infinite power. It's only common sense.

These are just what Beyonder can do do and there is still Thanos. Anti-Monitor literally has no point even being in this battle.

#30 Posted by logy5000 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: But you see, there can't be more than 1 omnipotent in an omniverse, or else there wouldn't be an actual god of Marvel. Spectre was stronger because he was unbound and had all the magic in DC with him. I may be wrong, but I believe that Reed Richards once drained Beyonder's powers with a weapon. Beyonder has claimed to be able to destroy a multiverse, but he never actually has and even if he did, AM has tanked a multiversal explosion.

I still think AM loses, just not as easily as you guys think.

#31 Posted by ShootingNova (20843 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti-Monitor is definitely going down. I can see PR Beyonder putting up a minor fight, but granted how naive and guillible he is, he could very well lose a major portion.

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#32 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

But you see, there can't be more than 1 omnipotent in an omniverse, or else there wouldn't be an actual god of Marvel.

PR Beyonder and Thanos with HOTU were not ever omnipotent at the same time. PR Beyonder, hence his name, was retconned into not being omnipotent. Hence, why Thanos can be omnipotent and not be contradicting.

Spectre was stronger because he was unbound and had all the magic in DC with him.

Spectre was not unbound at all. He had a host, so by definition he is bounded. He was only amped by all the magical power in DC. Which is pretty useless since Spectre was able to destroy all the magic in DC by himself. So it goes to show how 'unbound' Spectre really was, which he wasn't. An unbound Spectre was capable of fighting Michael at the gates of heaven.

I may be wrong, but I believe that Reed Richards once drained Beyonder's powers with a weapon. Beyonder has claimed to be able to destroy a multiverse, but he never actually has and even if he did.

You can't drain omnipotence. Ask Doom, he tried, it didn't work. Beyonder didn't claim to destroy the multiverse, he actually did. He had a change of heart afterwards and remade everything.

AM has tanked a multiversal explosion.

I don't see how this is relevant. Thanos and Beyonder are omnipotent, meaning they have unlimited power. They could easily just muster enough force that exceeds what he can handle.

I still think AM loses, and just as easily as you guys think.

Fixed.

#33 Edited by logy5000 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: Well it seems that if there can be a winner, one of them has to be below omnipotent. Claim they're omnipotent, go ahead. Step 2: prove it. Neither of them have feats to suggest that they're omnipotent. It's all assumption and guessing. Neiter of them went above multiversal, which isn't enough to kill AM. Mxyzptlk destroyed and recreated the multiverse w/ a snap of his fingers, which is just as good, if not better, than anything Beyonder did. Is Mxy omnipotent? No.

#34 Edited by the_mighty_Beyonder (723 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Oblivion IS mentionned in the scans, the dimensionnal level of Thanos's feats is absorbing the multiverse, and existing in Oblivion, then recreating the multiverse, but the Beyonder is much larger as a being. when we talk about dimensions or more exactly realms let's put it like this : beyond >>>>Oblivion = or > multiverse>>>universe.

Thanos stand in Oblivion, Beyonder is the essence of the beyond, you may say that Thanos could absorb or destroy Oblivion if he wanted, yes!! but i would say the same for Protege, Cyttorak or any others..., so to stop imaginary hypothesis we will be based on feats, and according to what i explained above, it's the Beyonder who has the best feats, so he's stronger.

I don't know why people keep choosing Thanos!! popularity doesn't make him stronger, they have to be more objetive and logical

#35 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

Well it seems that if there can be a winner, one of them has to be below omnipotent. Claim they're omnipotent, go ahead.

Read my scans. It clearly says that Beyonder is omnipotent and that his thought is reality. You pretty much can't get more omnipotent than that. To believe otherwise would be willful ignorance.

Step 2: prove it. Neither of them have feats to suggest that they're omnipotent. It's all assumption and guessing.

My scans on top prove it pretty much. Also if you read anything with PR Beyonder or Thanos with HOTU then you would know that they are omnipotent.

Neiter of them went above multiversal, which isn't enough to kill AM.

Wait, what? Thanos and Beyonder have destroyed and recreated the entire multiverse. You can't really get any bigger than that. Anti-Monitor was killed by Superman, Superman-Prime and Superboy-Prime. I really don't see how he's supposed to survive a blow from two omnipotents.

Mxyzptlk destroyed and recreated the multiverse w/ a snap of his fingers, which is just as good, if not better, than anything Beyonder did. Is Mxy omnipotent? No.

Name an instance where he did that in canon. Non-canon instances, such as World's Finest don't count. So I really don't see how this is relevant. Myx was depowered by an alternate version of Zantanna and was scared shit less of Superboy-prime. So no, Myx is not omnipotent, not even close. PR Beyonder is leagues above Myx.

I don't know how logic works in your head. But it's pretty obvious you can't debate.

EDIT: I happily await your response.

#36 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (723 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian: based on what Thanos beats Beyonder? the best feat of Thanos is multiversal, but Beyonder stands on higher level (the beyond realm)

#37 Posted by BigCimmerian (10050 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

@BigCimmerian: based on what Thanos beats Beyonder? the best feat of Thanos is multiversal, but Beyonder stands on higher level (the beyond realm)

You want to say that Beyonder is more powerful than The One Above All?

#38 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (723 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian: and who said HOTU equals TOAA, that's hyperbolic, if you're gonna tell me it's Thanos who said it, well he didn't, he may just give a hint that HOTU is part of TOAA, and that's very debatable, because here we'll have to talk about Thanos's personality, not every thing he claims is true.

in the other hand if we take Thanos's statement in consideration, than we should do the same with beyonder who stated clearly and frankly that he's omnipotent

#39 Posted by Killemall (18746 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

@Killemall: Oblivion IS mentionned in the scans, the dimensionnal level of Thanos's feats is absorbing the multiverse, and existing in Oblivion, then recreating the multiverse, but the Beyonder is much larger as a being. when we talk about dimensions or more exactly realms let's put it like this : beyond >>>>Oblivion = or > multiverse>>>universe.

Obvilion is NOT mentioned as a character, nor was one of the being he faced. You are not going to agree with me, and i am not going to point out, but Thanos has better feats than Beyonder, he recreated the universe (as opposed to multiverse) from nothing with Beyonder said he couldnt.

Thanos stand in Oblivion, Beyonder is the essence of the beyond, you may say that Thanos could absorb or destroy Oblivion if he wanted, yes!! but i would say the same for Protege, Cyttorak or any others..., so to stop imaginary hypothesis we will be based on feats, and according to what i explained above, it's the Beyonder who has the best feats, so he's stronger.

This makes absolutely no sense. You are comparing a character that appearened in 1 and a half issue as opposed to a character that appared in 2 whole series, yet this character does something Beyonder himself said he could do. Logic says he is more powerful, after all he has more powerful power source.

I don't know why people keep choosing Thanos!! popularity doesn't make him stronger, they have to be more objetive and logical

Because if you stop being a Beyonder fanboy, stop trying to make an excuse for his inability to re-create Lady death and look at it objectively Thanos with HOTU is indeed more powerful.

#40 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (723 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: well that Mister is the most empty argument i ever read, what exactly makes Thanos better than Beyonder? nothing

Thanos didn't have any feat that surpasses the Beyonder's feats, he absorbed the multiverse and recreated, ok, so what? what does that prouve? Thanos didn't absorb Oblivion because he was in it, moreover because Death and Oblivion are two facet of the same thing, Thanos didn't then absorb Death too (it's in the comics) so he didn't create Death beause he didn't absorb it in the first place. so again what exactly makes Thanos better than Beyonder? nothing

you said the source of power? the HOTU is part of TOAA only because Thanos stated that, and that doesn't prove that it's superior to Beyonder, because this latter was created by Marvel HQ to play the role of TOAA, Beyonder is also related somehow to TOAA more or less as the embodiment of TOAA's power. didn't any one of you ask himself: why in the hell does Death not flee, why in the hell does Death take the cup and drink it and kill itself without arguing the Beyonders acts the same goes for the other abstracts, it's like if the Beyonder is their Boss (Boss = more or less the embodiment of TOAA), so the source of Thanos power is not enough to claim he's superior.

and wait wait, wait a second, Beyonder said he couldnt recreate the multiverse!!!!! that's a big lie.if only changes in his temper could unbalance the fabric of the multiverse, destroy galaxies, alter dimensions, do you really think he can't recreate the multiverse, really!!! wht's about when he was back to beyond in the final issue of Secret Wars 2 didn't he create his own. pffff

#41 Posted by Killemall (18746 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

@Killemall: well that Mister is the most empty argument i ever read, what exactly makes Thanos better than Beyonder? nothing

It really isnt, and i have brought up the same thing trice, so dont want to repeat that. He recreated every abstracts from scratch , including LT out of absolutely nothing. Care to show an instance where Beyonder has been able to recreate an abstract? He himself said he cannot, he could however only change the shape and form of a human into lady death. Yet Thanos creates the whole lot of them, including LT and thats is nothing, how exactly?

\

Thanos didn't have any feat that surpasses the Beyonder's feats, he absorbed the multiverse and recreated, ok, so what? what does that prouve? Thanos didn't absorb Oblivion because he was in it, moreover because Death and Oblivion are two facet of the same thing, Thanos didn't then absorb Death too (it's in the comics) so he didn't create Death beause he didn't absorb it in the first place. so again what exactly makes Thanos better than Beyonder? nothing

1. Thanos never absorbed the multiverse,it was only universe,but he did absorb absorb everyone and recreated the abstract. Which proves he can create abstract out of nothing, because he did. Beyonder didnt.

2. Thanos didnt absorb Obvilion , he never attempted to absorb him, a bunch of abstract fought Thanos and he absorbed everyone there. He neither absorbed Lady Death nor did he kill her, why because Lady Death was never among the abstracts that attacked him.

3. Its not that he cannot, because he absorbed Living Tribunal, who after Secret Wars 3, in 1990 was boosted to megaversal level as opposed to multiverse. And he recreated him. So you are saying Thanos can absorb and recreate The Living Tribunal, an abstract who is leagues and bounds more powerful than Death, but cant absorb Death? Why? Based on what? i would love to hear.

\

you said the source of power? the HOTU is part of TOAA only because Thanos stated that, and that doesn't prove that it's superior to Beyonder, because this latter was created by Marvel HQ to play the role of TOAA, Beyonder is also related somehow to TOAA more or less as the embodiment of TOAA's power. didn't any one of you ask himself: why in the hell does Death not flee, why in the hell does Death take the cup and drink it and kill itself without arguing the Beyonders acts the same goes for the other abstracts, it's like if the Beyonder is their Boss (Boss = more or less the embodiment of TOAA), so the source of Thanos power is not enough to claim he's superior.

Thanos was talking with himself give me 1 reason why Thanos would lie to himself? There is a difference between boast, if Thanos walks up to Lady Death and says he is superior to her, thats a boast. If Thanos says something to himself that isnt.

Death did not flee because thats what the writer wrote, how would you flee from a guy more powerful than Living Tribunal. And saying he was superior to Death so he would be superior to Thanos makes no sense, why because who else has humilated Death:

1. Galactus.

2. Inbetweener.

And no the boss of abstract =/= TOAA, and Beyonder was never said to be TOAA in either of the story arc. Beyonder is amultiverse beyond ours, the biggest thing was his multiverse or rather himself was much bigger than our multiverse, the statement being used to describe it was out multiverse was like a drop of water to an ocean when you compare with his. Is there a shed of a doubt Beyonder was more powerful than the entire abstracts no. Is there a doubt that Beyonder could kill all the Abstracts if he wanted to no.

Then where are the doubts.

1. Is his powers infinite? No. He was weakened after killing Lady Death, shows he can be weakened. Thanos never showed such weakness despite having killed all the abstracts including LT. And you are telling me that doesnt show he was more powerful?

2. Can Beyonder recreate abstracts out of nothing? And the answer is no because he himself said he cant. Thanos could and he did.

and wait wait, wait a second, Beyonder said he couldnt recreate the multiverse!!!!! that's a big lie.if only changes in his temper could unbalance the fabric of the multiverse, destroy galaxies, alter dimensions, do you really think he can't recreate the multiverse, really!!! wht's about when he was back to beyond in the final issue of Secret Wars 2 didn't he create his own. pffff

The bolded part, could you show me where i stated that. Which paragraph did i state Beyonder said so?

He said he cannot re-create Lady Death, an abstract.

In final issue of Secret Wars 2, he did not create his own multiverse, he died and the explosion created his own multiverse. Thats two different thing,he never created so willing. He was overwhelmed by Molecule Man, although i gotta be honest that has a huge plot. Beyonder himself turned him mortal.

#42 Posted by Supermansito (203 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos

#43 Posted by logy5000 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: You have not proven that Beyonder is omnipotent. You've posted a scan of him being multiversal. While that is impressive, it's not enough to beat AM.

Multiversal level is as big as it gets? Well then, I guess Anti-Monitor, Living Tribunal, Lucifer Morningstar, Great Evil Beast, Presence, Spectre, Thought Robot, Mandrakk, and Mikaboshi are all omnipotent. See the flaw in your logic yet? If multiversal = omnipotent, then Anti-Monitor would be omnipotent.

Ha, you've resulted to saying I can't debate just because I can resist you? How pathetic.

And now I happily await you coming in and saying "he destroyed a multiverse, that makes him omnipotent. You can't debate, blah blah blah."

#44 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: What is greater than a multiverse? I really don't understand what you're trying to say. If you mean omniverse, then that is just a term to use to encompass the entirety of the multiverse. Beyonder destroyed all of reality and recreated it. I don't see how its so difficult to understand. You're trying to imply something which doesn't work out logically. Beyonder have feats that put him leagues above Anti-Monitor, the guy who nearly died several times in his attempt to destroy the multiverse, which took him a couple of million years to accomplish. You treat it like he actually destroyed the multiverse with a swing of his hand, when it took him forever just to destroy a majority of it. Beyonder has destroyed the multiverse with a thought. A single thought is all it took for him to do it. The Anti-Monitor doesn't have anything close to this. I don't see how you can be so blunt when the scans provided show him destroying the whole entire marvel continuity and him stating how he is omnipotent. It's really not that difficult to understand.

#45 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (723 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: nice respond that's more logical than the first one.

1. you said it : "Thanos has better feats than Beyonder, he recreated the universe (as opposed to multiverse) from nothing with Beyonder said he couldnt." sorry but i don't think you're amnesic (just kidding) but you have to admit you was wrong here.

1. Thanos never absorbed the multiverse,it was only universe,but he did absorb absorb everyone and recreated the abstract. Which proves he can create abstract out of nothing, because he did. Beyonder didnt

2. isn't wrong to say Beyonder can't create abstract, but can create multiverse, what are Abstracts but parts of the fabric of the multiverse

2. Thanos didnt absorb Obvilion , he never attempted to absorb him, a bunch of abstract fought Thanos and he absorbed everyone there. He neither absorbed Lady Death nor did he kill her, why because Lady Death was never among the abstracts that attacked him.

3. true

3. Its not that he cannot, because he absorbed Living Tribunal, who after Secret Wars 3, in 1990 was boosted to megaversal level as opposed to multiverse. And he recreated him. So you are saying Thanos can absorb and recreate The Living Tribunal, an abstract who is leagues and bounds more powerful than Death, but cant absorb Death? Why? Based on what? i would love to hear.

4. true, i just said Thanos didn't absorb Death and Oblivion, i never appointed that he can't, but you got a good point here, if he can absorb and create LT he can for Death and Oblivion. point taken.

Thanos was talking with himself give me 1 reason why Thanos would lie to himself? There is a difference between boast, if Thanos walks up to Lady Death and says he is superior to her, thats a boast. If Thanos says something to himself that isnt.

5. if you meant he said he's superior to all abstracts, i agree, if you meant he draws the power of TOAA that's hyperbolic, let's not forget thanos is arrogant even in front of himself, and ok ok let's suppose he says the truth, we have in the other hand Beyonder who stated frankly to himself he's omnipotent, and that everything existing, Abstracts, omni-reality are only manifestation of his imagination.

Death did not flee because thats what the writer wrote, how would you flee from a guy more powerful than Living Tribunal. And saying he was superior to Death so he would be superior to Thanos makes no sense, why because who else has humilated Death:
1. Galactus.
2. Inbetweener.

6. humiliating Death is not like obliging her to commit suicide without arguing. (here we have the writers power = Beyonder's power)

1. Is his powers infinite? No. He was weakened after killing Lady Death, shows he can be weakened. Thanos never showed such weakness despite having killed all the abstracts including LT. And you are telling me that doesnt show he was more powerful?

7. In the original Secret Wars storyline, he was the be-all and end-all of the Marvel universe, how is that not infinite, he stated he's omnipotent how is that not infinite, and the "killing Death thing" i'll answer that a few line below. now, what frustrate me is that people criticize weakness in other's opinions and forget about weakness in what they defend. Thanos with HOTU had a great weakness, he couldn't heal the universe, so how would he beat an omnipotent??

In final issue of Secret Wars 2, he did not create his own multiverse, he died and the explosion created his own multiverse. Thats two different thing,he never created so willing. He was overwhelmed by Molecule Man, although i gotta be honest that has a huge plot. Beyonder himself turned him mortal.

8. that's nonsense!!! i'm not even gonna argue that

Now, to sum all what i wanted to say,

The beyonder is Omnipotent, he is the be-all and end-all of the Omniverse, he always was and always be, those are not my statements those are Beyonder's, they are in comics, those are signs of God (with capital G), and to put a clear thought on that, let's see how Jim Shooter described the Beyonder (Writer/Creator of Beyonder/SSW-I & II and Editor in-Chief of Marvel), Jim described the Beyonder in an interview for the Marvel Age as "God before there was Genesis" insinuating that the Beyonder hadthe power of the writers, he also said : "the Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse).... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scopeand discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ...We introduced the Beyonderand establishedthat he was studying these beings - us - he had discovered"

And to respond to the "killing Death thing", the Beyonder was omnipotent but he imposed restrictions upon himself in order to play around, he confirms this numerous times in the arcs were he appears, even restricted he was millions of times more powerful than the rest of the Marvel Multiverse combined. His omniscience is, while debatable, was always attainable. At one occasion he scanned the entire Marvel Multiverse, effectively becoming omniscient, he was also referred to as omniscient from time to time and acted as such when serious. But generally he acted ignorant for the purpose of studying the multiverse. Beyonder was the manifestation of an infinite dimensional realm known as the Beyond, exceeding the magnitude of the Marvel Multiverse. He also had the mightiest of conceptual beings, including the Living Tribunal, tremble in his presence. But most notable is his comparison to Owen Reece or Molecule Man, while Molecule Man's power was far beyond any of the abstracts when defeated by the Beyonder he explains to Captain America that Beyonder was to him, as he was to Captain America.

#46 Posted by logy5000 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: I'm not saying that Anti-Monitor can instantly destroy a multiverse, I'm saying that he has survived an explosion of the entire multiverse. We can't assume he's omnipotent just because he said so, otherwise Odin would be omnipotent.

#47 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: Beyonder may not be omniscient or omnipresent, but he is pretty much omnipotent. He destroyed the whole entire marvel omniverse with a sway of his hand. His thought is reality. He views the marvel universe as a drop of water in an ocean. He casually tanks a blow that can destroy a billion dimensions and it doesn't faze him. He's pretty much the definition of omnipotent. He's above every abstract in existence, they had to get Owen Reece to fight him, eve then he couldn't beat Beyonder. He killed Death throughout the multiverse with a thought. Beyonder could probably just blink Anti-Monitor gone, since he pretty much did that to most people.

#48 Posted by Killemall (18746 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

@Killemall: nice respond that's more logical than the first one.

1. you said it : "Thanos has better feats than Beyonder, he recreated the universe (as opposed to multiverse) from nothing with Beyonder said he couldnt." sorry but i don't think you're amnesic (just kidding) but you have to admit you was wrong here.

I have to admit that was a mistype, he cannot re-create abstracts out of nothing, thats what i was going at.

2. isn't wrong to say Beyonder can't create abstract, but can create multiverse, what are Abstracts but parts of the fabric of the multiverse

\

No it isnt. Abstracts are sentinent embodiment of various stuffs in the multiverse , whose prime component are in 616. Also arent you using way too many ABC Logic, Beyonder has never conciously created the multiverse either.

5. if you meant he said he's superior to all abstracts, i agree, if you meant he draws the power of TOAA that's hyperbolic, let's not forget thanos is arrogant even in front of himself, and ok ok let's suppose he says the truth, we have in the other hand Beyonder who stated frankly to himself he's omnipotent, and that everything existing, Abstracts, omni-reality are only manifestation of his imagination.

Untrue. Thanos isnt one to known to boast, like at all. You know Thanos actually stopped being a villian and has been an anti-hero ever since the infinity gauntlet story saga, before his character derailment during the current Avengers Assemble. He is someone who judges his powers objectively. He outright admitted Galactus power was leagues and bound more powerful than him, in the same story where he nearly killed him. I would love to see a proof that Thanos boasts.

Secondly,not sure where you are going with the omnipotent part. They are both omnipotent , as omnipotent as it gets in comics. Also they are not the only ones stated to be omnipotent guys like Living Tribunal, Eternity (while in his respective universe), Lord Order and Master chaos (while in their domain) are all omnipotent. Fact being , neither are true omnipotent being but as omnipotent as it gets cosmic wise.

6. humiliating Death is not like obliging her to commit suicide without arguing. (here we have the writers power = Beyonder's power)

Point was they all made Lady Death do something beyond her wishes, to a point she was so angry she started plotted against them (well Inbetweener in Particular) and thats the reason she let Thanos go after IG.

Also if you are going to use Death showings, lets see, Beyonder had to make lady death drink from a cup of his own power. He never killed Lady death outright with his powers. While Thanos, with a lot less difficulty killed Eternity, Infinity and Living Tribunal, without making anyone drink from a cup. in an outright physical confrontation, with all earth heroes included, and you are telling me that doesnt show Thanos has being superior? Why?

Funny part is, you are trying to turn in around to show Beyonder is superior which sounds wrong.

7. In the original Secret Wars storyline, he was the be-all and end-all of the Marvel universe, how is that not infinite, he stated he's omnipotent how is that not infinite, and the "killing Death thing" i'll answer that a few line below. now, what frustrate me is that people criticize weakness in other's opinions and forget about weakness in what they defend. Thanos with HOTU had a great weakness, he couldn't heal the universe, so how would he beat an omnipotent??

Few things error here:

1. Beyonder as explained before his recton is a sentinent multiverse. Something he says repeatedly througout the story arc (Secret Wars 2 rather than 1).

2. With a clear showing that shows his powers are not infinite, like his fight against Molecule Man, like his confrontation with Lady Death etc shows his power isnt infinite.

And incorrect in that Thanos couldnt heal the universe, Thanos did heal the universe at the end of the story arc. What he could however not do was heal it, without destroying it, and it was clearly says TOAA couldnt do that same.

8. that's nonsense!!! i'm not even gonna argue that

Explain to me what exactly is nonesense here? I would love to hear.

Now, to sum all what i wanted to say,

The beyonder is Omnipotent, he is the be-all and end-all of the Omniverse, he always was and always be, those are not my statements those are Beyonder's, they are in comics, those are signs of God (with capital G), and to put a clear thought on that, let's see how Jim Shooter described the Beyonder (Writer/Creator of Beyonder/SSW-I & II and Editor in-Chief of Marvel), Jim described the Beyonder in an interview for the Marvel Age as "God before there was Genesis" insinuating that the Beyonder hadthe power of the writers, he also said : "the Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse).... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scopeand discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ...We introduced the Beyonderand establishedthat he was studying these beings - us - he had discovered"

1. On Panel Evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Writer Opinion.

2. Every on panel Evidence shows Thanos as superior.

a. Not weakening after killing the abstracts vs Beyonder was weakened after killing the abstracts.

b. One recreating the universe along with LT and other abstracts out of nothing, the other saying he cant do it.

While i agree to everything that has been put on quotation, i do not agree ever for once that Beyonder has the power of the writer (which is TOAA anyways). So would you be kind enough to give me a link, where anyone says Beyonder has the power of the writer? I would love to see.

Also you know who else were meant to be gods? Celesitals, as explained by Jack Kirby.

And to respond to the "killing Death thing", the Beyonder was omnipotent but he imposed restrictions upon himself in order to play around, he confirms this numerous times in the arcs were he appears, even restricted he was millions of times more powerful than the rest of the Marvel Multiverse combined. His omniscience is, while debatable, was always attainable. At one occasion he scanned the entire Marvel Multiverse, effectively becoming omniscient, he was also referred to as omniscient from time to time and acted as such when serious. But generally he acted ignorant for the purpose of studying the multiverse. Beyonder was the manifestation of an infinite dimensional realm known as the Beyond, exceeding the magnitude of the Marvel Multiverse. He also had the mightiest of conceptual beings, including the Living Tribunal, tremble in his presence. But most notable is his comparison to Owen Reece or Molecule Man, while Molecule Man's power was far beyond any of the abstracts when defeated by the Beyonder he explains to Captain America that Beyonder was to him, as he was to Captain America.

I would love to see a scan, or a quote that says Beyonder himself restricted himself when he tried to kill Lady death. Else this is just a fan-made assumption and nothing else.

If you say Beyonder restricted himself when he fought molecule man and was destroyed the multiverse, agree not going to debate that. When you say Beyonder restricted himself in case of Lady Death i do not agree at all. There was nothing in that particular scenario that said or even implied that he restricted his power. So where is the proof in that? Any scan you could show me?

Also who does being omnisense has anything got to do with him being more powerful than Thanos or him being powerful to resurrect Lady Death out of nothing, i do not understand.

The underlined part i totally agree, and have never disagreed but i do not what that has to do with anything being stated or argued. ( This part doesnt affect out debate)Also Beyonder , as evident by his talk with Spiderman, Mr. Fantastic and Captain America, while he could copy anything he wanted, like Captain America's look and cloths, he had trouble understand why people did something. Like there is a right and there is a wrong, why do people get hungry. Which makes sense because he essentially is his own universe, there is no right and wrong where he is from because he is all that is. This however doesnt, in any way, shape or form affects the argument though.

#49 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (723 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@logy5000: Beyonder may not be omniscient or omnipresent, but he is pretty much omnipotent. He destroyed the whole entire marvel omniverse with a sway of his hand. His thought is reality. He views the marvel universe as a drop of water in an ocean. He casually tanks a blow that can destroy a billion dimensions and it doesn't faze him. He's pretty much the definition of omnipotent. He's above every abstract in existence, they had to get Owen Reece to fight him, eve then he couldn't beat Beyonder. He killed Death throughout the multiverse with a thought. Beyonder could probably just blink Anti-Monitor gone, since he pretty much did that to most people.

legitimate, & co-signed

#50 Posted by Killemall (18746 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: I'm not saying that Anti-Monitor can instantly destroy a multiverse, I'm saying that he has survived an explosion of the entire multiverse. We can't assume he's omnipotent just because he said so, otherwise Odin would be omnipotent.

I think the point trying to be put across is that Anti-Monitor is a little out of his league here. We are talking about 2 entities who superior, if we dont compare among themselves, would only be TOAA (or fulcrum whichever you prefer).

Antimonitor, at his best, is still only multiversal level. While for Beyonder it was explained that our multiverse vs his would be like comparing a drop of water against an ocean, and for Thanos he essentially, with little to no trouble, killed Living Tribunal (who after 1990 has been a megaversal in terms of power) and recreated him, alongside the universe and other abstracts.

Anyway you look at it, those two are superior to Antimonitor by quite a margin. The place where i dont agree with OmgOmgWtfWtf is that either could blink him out of existence, as either has ever blinked anyone out of existence. Beyonder had to make Death drink from a cup of his own powers to kill her, while Thanos absorbed and kill the Abstracts, albiet they put up a fight against him. Neither lady death, nor the abstracts Thanos kill (barring LT) are more powerful than Anti-Monitor anyways. So while Anti Monitor would be expected to put up a fight, there is little to nothing anti-monitor could do to beat either of them, but they could essentially destroy him utterly whenever they want to. Beyonder was wreaking the entire multiverse even when he was holding back certainly shows he has more than enough powers.