@the_mighty_Beyonder said:
@Killemall: nice respond that's more logical than the first one.
1. you said it : "Thanos has better feats than Beyonder, he recreated the universe (as opposed to multiverse) from nothing with Beyonder said he couldnt." sorry but i don't think you're amnesic (just kidding) but you have to admit you was wrong here.
I have to admit that was a mistype, he cannot re-create abstracts out of nothing, thats what i was going at.
2. isn't wrong to say Beyonder can't create abstract, but can create multiverse, what are Abstracts but parts of the fabric of the multiverse
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No it isnt. Abstracts are sentinent embodiment of various stuffs in the multiverse , whose prime component are in 616. Also arent you using way too many ABC Logic, Beyonder has never conciously created the multiverse either.
5. if you meant he said he's superior to all abstracts, i agree, if you meant he draws the power of TOAA that's hyperbolic, let's not forget thanos is arrogant even in front of himself, and ok ok let's suppose he says the truth, we have in the other hand Beyonder who stated frankly to himself he's omnipotent, and that everything existing, Abstracts, omni-reality are only manifestation of his imagination.
Untrue. Thanos isnt one to known to boast, like at all. You know Thanos actually stopped being a villian and has been an anti-hero ever since the infinity gauntlet story saga, before his character derailment during the current Avengers Assemble. He is someone who judges his powers objectively. He outright admitted Galactus power was leagues and bound more powerful than him, in the same story where he nearly killed him. I would love to see a proof that Thanos boasts.
Secondly,not sure where you are going with the omnipotent part. They are both omnipotent , as omnipotent as it gets in comics. Also they are not the only ones stated to be omnipotent guys like Living Tribunal, Eternity (while in his respective universe), Lord Order and Master chaos (while in their domain) are all omnipotent. Fact being , neither are true omnipotent being but as omnipotent as it gets cosmic wise.
6. humiliating Death is not like obliging her to commit suicide without arguing. (here we have the writers power = Beyonder's power)
Point was they all made Lady Death do something beyond her wishes, to a point she was so angry she started plotted against them (well Inbetweener in Particular) and thats the reason she let Thanos go after IG.
Also if you are going to use Death showings, lets see, Beyonder had to make lady death drink from a cup of his own power. He never killed Lady death outright with his powers. While Thanos, with a lot less difficulty killed Eternity, Infinity and Living Tribunal, without making anyone drink from a cup. in an outright physical confrontation, with all earth heroes included, and you are telling me that doesnt show Thanos has being superior? Why?
Funny part is, you are trying to turn in around to show Beyonder is superior which sounds wrong.
7. In the original Secret Wars storyline, he was the be-all and end-all of the Marvel universe, how is that not infinite, he stated he's omnipotent how is that not infinite, and the "killing Death thing" i'll answer that a few line below. now, what frustrate me is that people criticize weakness in other's opinions and forget about weakness in what they defend. Thanos with HOTU had a great weakness, he couldn't heal the universe, so how would he beat an omnipotent??
Few things error here:
1. Beyonder as explained before his recton is a sentinent multiverse. Something he says repeatedly througout the story arc (Secret Wars 2 rather than 1).
2. With a clear showing that shows his powers are not infinite, like his fight against Molecule Man, like his confrontation with Lady Death etc shows his power isnt infinite.
And incorrect in that Thanos couldnt heal the universe, Thanos did heal the universe at the end of the story arc. What he could however not do was heal it, without destroying it, and it was clearly says TOAA couldnt do that same.
8. that's nonsense!!! i'm not even gonna argue that
Explain to me what exactly is nonesense here? I would love to hear.
Now, to sum all what i wanted to say,
The beyonder is Omnipotent, he is the be-all and end-all of the Omniverse, he always was and always be, those are not my statements those are Beyonder's, they are in comics, those are signs of God (with capital G), and to put a clear thought on that, let's see how Jim Shooter described the Beyonder (Writer/Creator of Beyonder/SSW-I & II and Editor in-Chief of Marvel), Jim described the Beyonder in an interview for the Marvel Age as "God before there was Genesis" insinuating that the Beyonder hadthe power of the writers, he also said : "the Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse).... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scopeand discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ...We introduced the Beyonderand establishedthat he was studying these beings - us - he had discovered"
1. On Panel Evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Writer Opinion.
2. Every on panel Evidence shows Thanos as superior.
a. Not weakening after killing the abstracts vs Beyonder was weakened after killing the abstracts.
b. One recreating the universe along with LT and other abstracts out of nothing, the other saying he cant do it.
While i agree to everything that has been put on quotation, i do not agree ever for once that Beyonder has the power of the writer (which is TOAA anyways). So would you be kind enough to give me a link, where anyone says Beyonder has the power of the writer? I would love to see.
Also you know who else were meant to be gods? Celesitals, as explained by Jack Kirby.
And to respond to the "killing Death thing", the Beyonder was omnipotent but he imposed restrictions upon himself in order to play around, he confirms this numerous times in the arcs were he appears, even restricted he was millions of times more powerful than the rest of the Marvel Multiverse combined. His omniscience is, while debatable, was always attainable. At one occasion he scanned the entire Marvel Multiverse, effectively becoming omniscient, he was also referred to as omniscient from time to time and acted as such when serious. But generally he acted ignorant for the purpose of studying the multiverse. Beyonder was the manifestation of an infinite dimensional realm known as the Beyond, exceeding the magnitude of the Marvel Multiverse. He also had the mightiest of conceptual beings, including the Living Tribunal, tremble in his presence. But most notable is his comparison to Owen Reece or Molecule Man, while Molecule Man's power was far beyond any of the abstracts when defeated by the Beyonder he explains to Captain America that Beyonder was to him, as he was to Captain America.
I would love to see a scan, or a quote that says Beyonder himself restricted himself when he tried to kill Lady death. Else this is just a fan-made assumption and nothing else.
If you say Beyonder restricted himself when he fought molecule man and was destroyed the multiverse, agree not going to debate that. When you say Beyonder restricted himself in case of Lady Death i do not agree at all. There was nothing in that particular scenario that said or even implied that he restricted his power. So where is the proof in that? Any scan you could show me?
Also who does being omnisense has anything got to do with him being more powerful than Thanos or him being powerful to resurrect Lady Death out of nothing, i do not understand.
The underlined part i totally agree, and have never disagreed but i do not what that has to do with anything being stated or argued. ( This part doesnt affect out debate)Also Beyonder , as evident by his talk with Spiderman, Mr. Fantastic and Captain America, while he could copy anything he wanted, like Captain America's look and cloths, he had trouble understand why people did something. Like there is a right and there is a wrong, why do people get hungry. Which makes sense because he essentially is his own universe, there is no right and wrong where he is from because he is all that is. This however doesnt, in any way, shape or form affects the argument though.
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