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#51 Edited by RogueShadow (10690 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: Don't be a d*ck without balls. There is no need to get heated here. What do you want me to say, he could've killed Namor? He takes hits from the hulk regularly? Survived having his heart ripped out and being set on fire? Survived being dropped into pools of acid? Being incinerated. Survived having Adamantium ripped from him by Magneto? Killed thousands of people to avenge a child?

I was giving very mundane generic, popular feats for both. Jeez, it's called context.

And then Spidey has ripped heads off sentinels with webbing in one pull, lifted tanks, danced around literally blitz' of gun fire that Wolverine seriously couldn't dodge, and dodge a 4000 feet per second bullet with no warning, he's beaten Deadpool with next to no effort [A guy who Wolverine usually beats but has quite a bit of trouble with] and Deadpool was amazed at how fast, he was left Wolverine basically hogtied with webs, fought Morlun for an extended period, the guy who can rip adamantium and tank a wave of Wakandan missiles and regularly fights guys like Sandman and Carnage.

What's the point in this?

#52 Posted by laflux (15896 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: Don't be a d*ck without balls. There is no need to get heated here. What do you want me to say, he could've killed Namor? He takes hits from the hulk regularly? Survived having his heart ripped out and being set on fire? Survived being dropped into pools of acid? Being incinerated. Survived having Adamantium ripped from him by Magneto? Killed thousands of people to avenge a child?

I was giving very mundane generic, popular feats for both. Jeez, it's called context.

And then Spidey has ripped heads off sentinels with webbing in one pull, lifted tanks, danced around literally blitz' of gun fire that Wolverine seriously couldn't dodge, and dodge a 4000 feet per second bullet with no warning, he's beaten Deadpool with next to no effort [A guy who Wolverine usually beats but has quite a bit of trouble with] and Deadpool was amazed at how fast, he was left Wolverine basically hogtied with webs, fought Morlun for an extended period, the guy who can rip adamantium and tank a wave of Wakandan missiles and regularly fights guys like Sandman and Carnage.

What's the point in this?

First off, no need for the insults. Second of all, Morlun was toying with Peter.

Morlun could have ended his fights with Peter anytime he wanted too. In all honesty Morlun could take Wolverine, Spider-Man, Iron Fist and Captain America by himself, and most likely have enough about him to have a half decent bout with the Hulk afterwards.

#53 Posted by RogueShadow (10690 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Yeah I know, but the fact he survived any length of time shows he's not to be messed with, Wolverine wouldn't have survived 2 mins. And I was only screwing around with the language no offence meant @super_soldierxii. I'm tired of this. I suppose I better get my scans ready... sigh.

#54 Posted by laflux (15896 posts) - - Show Bio

Still enjoying this thread. But I'll call in @god_spawn just to keep things clean.

#55 Edited by laflux (15896 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow said:

@laflux: Yeah I know, but the fact he survived any length of time shows he's not to be messed with, Wolverine wouldn't have survived 2 mins. And I was only screwing around with the language no offence meant @super_soldierxii. I'm tired of this. I suppose I better get my scans ready... sigh.

TBF, the only reason why Logan could survive a shorter period of time, is because he has a habit for tanking damage at times, and his acrobatics and agility isn't on Peter's level. Which is bad considering Morlun packs the wallop to K.O Wolverine, and combines that with Power draining. And even than, Wolverine's damage output would be alot more useful against Morlun than Peter's, and his more effective healing factor would protect from such tactics.

In anycase, both don't come close to beating Morlun in a standard encounter one on one, and in fairness, using Morlun as a benchmark to see how they fair against one another is faulty. Especially since he brings completely different problems than the two bring to each other when they throw down.

#56 Posted by RogueShadow (10690 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: I wasn't trying to set a benchmark, or even present an A + B = C debate [Which I hate], I was just trying to punctuate the futility of this debate by showing feats that are usually raised in Spidey vs Wolvie debates.

#57 Posted by God_Spawn (37880 posts) - - Show Bio

Just clear a few things up, Wolverine's only ever really had a lot of trouble with Deadpool on the occasions when he had no ady, a burnt out healing factor, or when Wade has prep. Logan's gotten the better of Deadpool on more than one occasion in about 5 pages or less when he is serious. Even Wade has admitted Logan usually holds back against him. Both him and Spider-Man have shown the capability of defeating Deadpool easily. So Deadpool isn't a good marker.

And as for Morlun ripping the adamantium net, any instance of true adamantium breaking has been retconned some time ago to secondary or some kind of knock off alloy. Brevoort also mentioned this a couple of years ago during Fear Itself in a question about Nul ripping an adamantium net and said true ady has never been broken. Still not an easy feat, but just so people get the proper context to it.

With that said, I agree with @laflux that using someone like Morlun as a bench-mark isn't a good idea. You can take bits and pieces of stats of a character to make references, but using the character as a whole when they have a different powerset doesn't bode well. It's like saying Wolverine should beat Spider-Man because Wolverine beat the Thing in one hit, and Ben is far stronger and durable that Parker. While those facts are true, that ignores the fact Parker is faster, has better agility, and has a means of incapacitating him. It would be no different really than saying "well, Spider-Man has tanked hits from Hulk and Rhino. He is in the same league as Wolverine." Not really when Wolverine has better damage soak feats due to his HF. But you could take from that, that on average, Spidey can soak punches and kicks from him, but the inverse is Logan has an answer for that and can take everything Parker dishes out in physicality. It's a puzzle, really. You just have to find what fits and what doesn't.

Moderator
#58 Edited by RogueShadow (10690 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: 5 pages is good but Spidey completely trashes him Wolverine is of a level with Deadpool, he's better, but they are around the same tier.

Regardless. I wasn't setting a marking point from which to appropriate the two in terms of power/ability etc, read the post in context and you'll see that I was giving points for both sides that have been brought up in the past to demonstrate how inert and functionless this debate is, it must have been done dozens of time on here. I've seen quite a few myself.

#59 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7751 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbeam: I wasn't insukting the thread if it came across as such. But at times it feels battles are repeated with new and different stipulations to try and swing things in a character's favor. For example Batman threads when he's given power rings and other items he doesn't normally have then pitted 1v1 against Galactus or something. Sorry if it seemed I was insulting this thread in paricular.

#60 Edited by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: This is far above Peter simply lashing out at Logan like he did when Wolverine cut him just read his monologue:

He was just angered by Logan. With Shathra it was full blown-blood lust.

I'm not debating whether he is fighting to the best of his ability i'm simply pointing out that you are incorrect that Spider-man will not use webbing when bloodlusted as that scan above points it out blatantly.

I don't think it does. He was busy wailing not webbing. He was not actively trying to incapacitate with the webbing at all. It was wild, and uncoordinated and just spewing wildly. Do you think webbing really would've been effective against Shathra ... and do you think Parker thinks it would be effective?

#61 Posted by Everythingcomics (273 posts) - - Show Bio

death stroke & wolverine

#62 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii:

Don't be a d*ck without balls.

Please don't tell me you're silly enough to think that comment was, somehow, full of wit and win? C'mon now, cut with the grade school crap.

There is no need to get heated here.

Coming from a bloke who started his retort with "d*ck without balls", I think I'm the one playing things pretty cool between we two.

What do you want me to say, he could've killed Namor?

Yes.

He takes hits from the hulk regularly?

Sure, why not?

Survived having his heart ripped out and being set on fire?

No, not really, because it has no real pertinence to a fight against Spider-Man. It does not highlight his blunt force damage soak. Which is what he'll need here.

Survived being dropped into pools of acid? Being incinerated. Survived having Adamantium ripped from him by Magneto? Killed thousands of people to avenge a child?

Again, see above, these very common tidbits of information are useless to the debate at hand.

I was giving very mundane generic, popular feats for both. Jeez, it's called context.

Generic, yes. But the context was highly suggestive you were using these as being somehow exemplary when they are extremely ordinary and do nothing to promote a point either way.

And then Spidey has ripped heads off sentinels with webbing in one pull,

So? How will that help him against Wolverine? He can't yank Logan's head off (obviously). Unless Parker is compromising beta adamantium enhanced vertebrae, joints, ligaments and such now? However, Wolverine cutting a Sentinel's heads off with one claw swipe, while again, an ordinary feat, would be far more pertinent to say because that's something he could actually do to Parker should he connect.

lifted tanks,

Again, so?

danced around literally blitz' of gun fire that Wolverine seriously couldn't dodge,

You mean, like this?

Then disappearing in plain view of Nuke like this perhaps (then reappearing behind him);

Or maybe like this?

Or maybe dodging well enough to impress DD as well (he even states in disbelief "Wolverine is dodging all those bullets!");

Or dodging bullets from Deadpool;

Avoiding a rocket propelled grenade from damn near point blank range fired by Deadpool as well (who is no slouch in the armaments department);

Here's an interesting combat speed feat more in line with Wolverine's reflexes ... he closes the distance and cleaves his antagonist in two before he can even say "you";

and dodge a 4000 feet per second bullet with no warning,

Yeah ... considering the average caliber bullet travels at 800 meters per second, I'm still gonna call that an average, run of the mill, street leveler feat. Kinda like this one here, where Wolverine turns, and walks away ... giving the hapless bloke a chance to go away unmolested. Waits till Wolverine gets a good enough distance, then tries to shoot him from behind. Has a clean shot too;

No warning ... Wolverine dodges all the same. Closes a considerable distance almost immediately and teaches a hard life lesson.

he's beaten Deadpool with next to no effort [A guy who Wolverine usually beats but has quite a bit of trouble with] and Deadpool was amazed at how fast,

Deadpool beat a fatal attractions Wolverine ... i.e a wounded, healing factorless Wolverine who wanted none of the fight Wade was offering. Aside from that, Deadpool has never given Wolverine trouble in a serious fight. Never. Wolverine was holding back on a rooftop battle (by Wade's own admission) and was still getting the better of Deadpool. One other time, Deadpool took Wolverine out only with prep (drugging him), and another in the Origins battle where Wolverine wanted to lose ... to set up his son Daken.

he was left Wolverine basically hogtied with webs,

And Wolverine's pinned him claws to face 4 times. Wolverine was not fighting Parker when he essentially sucker punched him with webbing and tied him up, then ran away ... Wolverine cut himself loose the following page. In any case, Spider-Man should beat Wolverine via incapacitation one on one. This is not the fight here though ...

fought Morlun for an extended period, the guy who can rip adamantium and tank a wave of Wakandan missiles and regularly fights guys like Sandman and Carnage.

Irrelevant here. For obvious reasons.

What's the point in this?

Honestly, I really don't think you've made a single one.

#63 Posted by laflux (15896 posts) - - Show Bio
#64 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol.OK, I'll play;

"Touch" smart guy.

You know I'm rarely mad. I'm just not a big cuddle bunny when it comes to certain, ahem, "things".

Now, take that!!

#65 Edited by Experio (15970 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke and Wolverine can win this

#66 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

This again

#67 Edited by RogueShadow (10690 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: Apologies about the comment on genitalia, you're right.

With all of those examples, I wasn't trying to make relevant points, I was making the points I see here all the time about this battle.

Take into account in your calculations that throughout all of these Spider-man's morals are working at maximum capacity, he's not operating at his physical or psychological optimum.

So you started with speed and reflexes. So will I. Those scans generally had Wolverine evading the general proximity of the fire, and always from a single source

Spider-man says outright that his reaction times/reflexes are up to 40x that of a normal human, leaps and bounds ahead of Wolverine's, he's going to find it near impossible to even tag him.

But perhaps he isn't fast enough to dodge? What does it matter if you know something's happening but are too physically slow to move out of its way?Well seriously, this next feat is truly amazing, he dodges the Hulk's punch by an infinitesimal proportion to make it appear as though the Hulk had punched him. Wolverine could not do that. No way No how.

Here are some of Spidey's feats of raw speed, some even whilst dazed. Such as here, he's dazed yet manages to easily dodge an impact the with dimensions larger than his own. Speed unknown, but can be assumed to be very fast. The impressive component here is that he was seeing only blackness and stars an instant before and yet is capable of dodging this.

Here he is not dazed, but instead oblivious to the oncoming assault of gunfire, his spider-sense activates and his raw speed and reflexes manage aid him in avoiding imminent and assured death.

And here, unlike Wolverine who tends to avoid the onslaught of bullets of this magnitude from high powered assault rifles. Spider-man swings deftly between them with relative ease. Dodging one bullet is fine, and simply getting out of the way of other more plentiful amounts is great. But hundreds, all localised at you is far more impressive, since Spidey literally contorts his body out of their way.

And another machine gun dodge acrobatically

To counter your out of vision feat: He manages to get on top of the box an the guy has no idea where he is.

This is another very impressive feat, on par with machine guns and hulk dodge in my opinion. He leaps fast enough and accurately enough to catch the darting Quinjet, which can fly at supersonic speeds.

Here he catches Cannonball, pretty self explanatory

Here we see Spidey get in and out of a van with a civilian in tow in under a second. The car was thrown by a superhumanly strong foe and was moving at about 40 mph, it was somewhere around 5 metres from the wall. meaning Spidey got in and out of there in around 1/3 of a second.

And for speed feats against others on a level with Wolvie [Yes, Wolvie's better but the gulf between the two isn't that great] Deadpool is amazed at how fast Spidey is, and as you well know , he's fought Wolverine before. 3 pages of spidey obliterating DP with no contest or difficulty.

I'd also like to point out Deadpool had been fighting these guys notlong before this doing quite well

They're actually reversed in order but you get the idea.

Basically, he's way too fast for Wolverine in my opinion, he's not getting tagged and can dance around Wolverine hitting him as much as he wants, and he is strong enough to keep Wolverine down, even if you think he' not strong enough for the K/0. Definitely for webbing. Spidey has this for me.

#68 Posted by laflux (15896 posts) - - Show Bio
#69 Posted by darkbeam (2289 posts) - - Show Bio

bump.

#70 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

I say team two wins, Wolverine is not quite fast enough to get it on his own, but Spiderman is going to want to use force and not simply incap with his web so with the help of Deathstroke, team two takes the majority.

#71 Posted by patrat18 (9761 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

#72 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

#73 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Apologies about the comment on genitalia, you're right.

No worries. Didn't take it personal. I know how I can come off at times.

Take into account in your calculations that throughout all of these Spider-man's morals are working at maximum capacity, he's not operating at his physical or psychological optimum

Not convinced that's entirely true in all circumstances. Spider-Man holds back because he's afraid to seriously hurt someone. He knows he doesn't have to hold back with Wolverine, and so he really doesn't hold back. He's cut loose on at least two occasions I can think of on Logan. I mean, Hulk, to lend an example, doesn't hold back on Wolverine by nature of what Savage Hulk is. Savage. Hulk is infinitely stronger than Parker, and yet Wolverine can take a modicum of that damage.

Spider-Man "not holding back" doesn't make me at all fearful of his damage output against someone like Logan. Let's look at speed. Because really, that's Parker's MVP (combined with spider-sense). Normally, one would think it would make him harder to hit ... but he's going to be more than likely engaging Wolverine in a brawl. (and damn folks, Deathstroke is here too!). And that places Parker in Slade and Logan's world.

Blood lusted means he'll be more focused on offense than defense. It's the nature of the emotion. Those trying to pawn it off as otherwise are only deluding themselves.

So you started with speed and reflexes. So will I. Those scans generally had Wolverine evading the general proximity of the fire, and always from a single source

Those scans yes ... do you really need me to produce scans where he dodges from multiples? I mean, dodging bullets from Nuke, Deadpool, and their ilk is more impressive than dodging from a multitude of goons IMHO. But yeah, Wolverine's dodged plenty in the multiples as well so the point is moot.

Spider-man says outright that his reaction times/reflexes are up to 40x that of a normal human, leaps and bounds ahead of Wolverine's,

Why do YOU say leaps and bounds above Wolverine? How do you deduce that??? Are you somehow trying to equate Wolverine to a normal human? I suggest you scroll up and peruse the scans. Because Spider-Man has also balked in wonder, questioning whether Wolverine's combat reflexes were actually faster than his own. If you believe Spider-Man's combat reflexes are so far out of Wolverine's ken, then I think you're just uneducated on the topic to be blunt. Here's the whole fight;

And regardless, Wolverine's tagged Spider-Man plenty of times with ease. So your opinion on the matter is unfounded and flat out false. Kaine and Spider-Man himself have marveled at Logan's combat speed. Which brings me to my final point;

I'm not going to address each and every scan you've shown because, well, most are really irrelevant and don't have to be dealt with (if you really want, I can address them one by one and prove the point). But I will point out one glaring fallacy in our logic *you are comparing Spider-Man's avoidance capabilities with Wolverine's avoidance*. No one would argue that Logan can come close to Parker in the realm of "avoidance". I do not have to prove such either. What I need to show, is that Wolverine's combat reflexes (coupled with his martial skill), can allow him to contend with Spider-Man's avoidance, before Parker can take him out.

That's what you seem to fail at understanding here. Their numerous confrontations point far more to Wolverine being capable of dealing with Parker's avoidance than the inverse. I can prove this, while you cannot prove otherwise. So your opinion on whether or not Wolverine can contend with Parker's speed is completely false.

#74 Posted by patrat18 (9761 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

#75 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

That is true, though his lethality and skill and speed have better feats. His healing factor and durability in pre-52 still allow him to tank explosions and to keep fighting after being shot a bunch of times. I say the flash tagger has the best chance of tagging spiderman.

#76 Posted by patrat18 (9761 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

That is true, though his lethality and skill and speed have better feats. His healing factor and durability in pre-52 still allow him to tank explosions and to keep fighting after being shot a bunch of times. I say the flash tagger has the best chance of tagging spiderman.

Agreed.

#77 Edited by RogueShadow (10690 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii said:

@rogueshadow:

Apologies about the comment on genitalia, you're right.

No worries. Didn't take it personal. I know how I can come off at times.

Take into account in your calculations that throughout all of these Spider-man's morals are working at maximum capacity, he's not operating at his physical or psychological optimum

Not convinced that's entirely true in all circumstances. Spider-Man holds back because he's afraid to seriously hurt someone. He knows he doesn't have to hold back with Wolverine, and so he really doesn't hold back. He's cut loose on at least two occasions I can think of on Logan. I mean, Hulk, to lend an example, doesn't hold back on Wolverine by nature of what Savage Hulk is. Savage. Hulk is infinitely stronger than Parker, and yet Wolverine can take a modicum of that damage.

It's not about just holding back, it's about being bloodlusted and legitimately looking to kill the opponent, operating at your absolute peak because you genuinely is to harm the other combatant until the are dead.

Spider-Man "not holding back" doesn't make me at all fearful of his damage output against someone like Logan. Let's look at speed. Because really, that's Parker's MVP (combined with spider-sense). Normally, one would think it would make him harder to hit ... but he's going to be more than likely engaging Wolverine in a brawl. (and damn folks, Deathstroke is here too!). And that places Parker in Slade and Logan's world.

I disagree he will simply engage them both in a brawl, people always suggest that Pete doesn't use his webs that much but he often does. And Spidey's damage out put should make you fearful since Wolverine's been taken down by DD and Captain America.

Blood lusted means he'll be more focused on offense than defense. It's the nature of the emotion. Those trying to pawn it off as otherwise are only deluding themselves.

I disagree with the premise, but regardless, I just feel S

So you started with speed and reflexes. So will I. Those scans generally had Wolverine evading the general proximity of the fire, and always from a single source

Those scans yes ... do you really need me to produce scans where he dodges from multiples? I mean, dodging bullets from Nuke, Deadpool, and their ilk is more impressive than dodging from a multitude of goons IMHO. But yeah, Wolverine's dodged plenty in the multiples as well so the point is moot.

Yes, I do since you don't seem to agree on how much faster Spider-man is than Wolverine, and Wolverine has not dodged nearly as much hails of fire without being tagged [at all] as Spider-man has. I'm unsure whether or not you are postulating Wolverine is as fast as Spider-man, because if you are then you're way off.

Spider-man says outright that his reaction times/reflexes are up to 40x that of a normal human, leaps and bounds ahead of Wolverine's,

Why do YOU say leaps and bounds above Wolverine? How do you deduce that??? Are you somehow trying to equate Wolverine to a normal human? I suggest you scroll up and peruse the scans. Because Spider-Man has also balked in wonder, questioning whether Wolverine's combat reflexes were actually faster than his own. If you believe Spider-Man's combat reflexes are so far out of Wolverine's ken, then I think you're just uneducated on the topic to be blunt. Here's the whole fight;

I'm not equating Wolverine to a normal human, but if you think he's 40x that of an average human or even in close proximity to that figure then your way off. He didn't balk in wonder, lol, he was momentarily struck and then realised he was in fact not as fast as him. My scan of Deadpool legitimately being discombobulated by Spidey's speed, permanently should show Spidey's way faster. I know you'll say Wolverine's faster than Dp, but the margin is evidently vastly slimmer than with Wolverine. And yes I think that bloodusted Spider-man's speed is far beyond Wolverine, if that makes me seem unknowledgeable to you well, okay then.

Yeah, I've read it, and it was an instantaneous epiphany that, no, in fact Wolverine is not in fact faster than him.

And regardless, Wolverine's tagged Spider-Man plenty of times with ease. So your opinion on the matter is unfounded and flat out false. Kaine and Spider-Man himself have marveled at Logan's combat speed. Which brings me to my final point;

We seem to both disagree with the potential damage a bloodlusted Spider-man can emit. And Spidey's tagged Wolverine too, and a lot more often, I'll come back to his output vs Wolverine's durability later.

I'm not going to address each and every scan you've shown because, well, most are really irrelevant and don't have to be dealt with (if you really want, I can address them one by one and prove the point). But I will point out one glaring fallacy in our logic *you are comparing Spider-Man's avoidance capabilities with Wolverine's avoidance*. No one would argue that Logan can come close to Parker in the realm of "avoidance". I do not have to prove such either. What I need to show, is that Wolverine's combat reflexes (coupled with his martial skill), can allow him to contend with Spider-Man's avoidance, before Parker can take him out.

No, it isn't avoidance, Spider-man dances between bullets in my scans with ease, Wolverine generally gets out of the area they are located Wolverine's avoiding, Spidey isn't. Combat reflexes and all, he's still way under spidey who can casually dodge between the fire of semi-automatic hail being shot at him by multiple adversaries.

That's what you seem to fail at understanding here. Their numerous confrontations point far more to Wolverine being capable of dealing with Parker's avoidance than the inverse. I can prove this, while you cannot prove otherwise. So your opinion on whether or not Wolverine can contend with Parker's speed is completely false.

So you're main argument is that Wolverine can endure Spider-man's maximum output, I'll try to disprove that.

I don't have the next scan but the entire building collapses immediately afterwards.

spidey holds up the Daily Bugle, he used a hell of a lot of webbing, but nonetheless, that's a very impressive strength feat.

And yet Wolverine got pretty badly dazed by this:

Matt with a Dumbbell, as I'm sure you know Daredvil isn't even peak.

and, to show that Spidey's strength is enough to knock Wolverine out:

Here olvie gets TKOd by Cap

And here Matt shows he's both strong and fast enough to throat shot Wolverine to ill effect, even after warning Wolverine

>;] Lol

and you talked about combat speed, which I think is demonstrated by dodging between bullet fire, but since we disagree on that premise:

Here Spider-man fights 117 low - mid level fighters with projectiles without a scratch, a fine demonstration of combat speed. Apologies but it's in there backwards, look at it from right to left.

And he held his own with sinister 12 for a little while, though he did of course lose, coupled with his absolute blitz of Deadpool, who at this point had just been fighting Cyclops and Domino, he's a fierce combatant.

And finally an awesome moment from Civil War where Spidey blitz'

Spider-man's combat speed is a lot higher than Wolverine's if he's going all out.

#78 Edited by Wolverine08 (42201 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

You're lowballing and using out of context scans now, and that is just going to lessen your credibility here mate.

Captain America knocked out Wolverine during Enemy of State because he was extremely exhausted from having fought multiple opponents for DAYS, and exhaustion has been shown to lessen the effectiveness of Wolverine's healing factor thereby also lowering his durability. I can go get you scans now of multiple occasions where Logan has shrugged off shield bashes from Captain America.

I really can't believe you brought up the Daredevil throat chop incident as a legitimate showing. Garth Ennis has gone on record and said that he intentionally trying to make Wolverine look like a clown during the series. I mean, this is the same series where a hit from a baseball bat to the balls put Wolverine down, and you think anything from it should be taken seriously? Wolverine gets taken out by a nerve strike in that series when he's been hit with them by Shingen while poisoned and shrugged them off, took them from Echo (a woman with a copying ability similar to Taskmaster who copied Daredevil's skill with nerve strikes) tried them on Wolverine and just made him laugh, Psylocke tried a nerve strike on Logan and didn't even faze him. He's consistently gone unfazed by nerve strikes, and you want to use an inconsistent moment to try prove a point? That just made you look bad.

I can go get you 10+ scans right now that have Wolverine shaking off blunt force trauma much worse than what put him down in those egregiously inconsistent scans you presented to try prove your point. That was just a really bad post there man. I don't know if you're trying to be taken seriously, but posts like that aren't going to do it.

#79 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Serious question; do you actually read through my arguments before responding? Because if not, let me know now and I'll save myself the time and energy ... I'm asking because you ignore many points while hanging onto things that don't highlight the crux of my argument at all. Point in case;

o you're main argument is that Wolverine can endure Spider-man's maximum output, I'll try to disprove that.

No. The argument between these two is can Spider-Man take down Wolverine, before Wolverine lands that ONE telling blow. That's pretty much the heart of it. Problem for Parker is, Wolverine can soak tons of blunt force trauma, whereas Spider-Man's not going to soak six twelve inch long adamantium claws through any part of his anatomy really. Another problem for Parker, is Wolverine has shown, in bonafide showings, that A) he can tag Spider-Man and B) Spider-Man is extremely hard pressed, even when going all out, to knock Wolverine out.

You have not, and cannot, disprove either A or B because their cumulative showings support my argument, not yours.

I state that Wolverine will last long enough in a brawl with Parker to tag him and put him away. I argue this is so based on their respective showings and, more so, based on their respective showings against one another.

Now, you've managed to pilfer the handful of low end showings concerning Wolverine from the Vine. Congrats. First, realize, there are dozens upon dozens of showings to contradict the paltry handful most Viners adhere to as their lifeline in these types of debates. So the consistency falls far, far in Wolverine's favor with regards his damage soak (against Thor, Ragnarok, Hulk, Namor, Sasquatch, Wendigo, She-Hulk, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, etc. etc.).

I'll address your scans one by one, as it's fairly obvious you haven't read the material;

1. Daredevil is peak human - so no, I don't agree with you when you state he is not. That said, he hit a mind wiped Wolverine in the nose with a dumbell and knocked him off balance. Wolverine falls and impales himself on a sword ... he gets back up bud.

2. Again, Enemy of the State. Context is golden here. Captain America hit an exhausted Wolverine who'd been going non-stop for days. That's why he was able to sneak up behind Wolverine ... which would otherwise have been impossible. Also, understand, Captain America knocks Helicopters out of the sky with a shield toss (twice);

Derails Thor's hammer in mid flight with a shield toss. Does this to a truck with a shield toss;

And a shield strike hits significantly harder. So really, let's not undermine the force with which his shield hits. (Cap managed to take out Spider-Man too btw.)

3. Garth Ennis. Nuff said. Funny thing is, you just contradicted your whole stand in this debate without even knowing it by allowing that showing. Should read the books you use beforehand bud. Wolverine was fighting both Spider-Man and Daredevil simultaneously in that showing. He took out Spider-Man with a kick to the groin (rather easily) before dropping to that throat chop;

So, using that feat, Wolverine took out Spider-Man rather easily. I don't use that feat personally, cuz it's full of WIS (writer induced stupidity). Wolverine's has had his throat slit, & torn out and kept on fighting. Like a throat chop would drop him. *But hey, you want to post low end feats, why don't I post the one where Daredevil beats Spider-Man?* You know why I don't? Because unlike you, I don't need to low ball the characters I'm debating against, and I know PIS (plot induced stupidity) and WIS when I see it.

As for the Spider-Man feats you've shown, they don't amount to much at all - because they simply highlight talents we all know he possesses. One's from the same Civil War story arc that sees Spidey lose to Captain America. Y'know, the guy you show KO'ing an exhausted Wolverine by sneaking up from behind.

You want I should post Parker's low end showings? I can fill pages. I don't, because I know them for what they are. Inconsistent, writer induced crap. Kinda like a few showings you highlighted for Wolverine above (that, or you omit important context surrounding).

#80 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

You're lowballing and using out of context scans now, and that is just going to lessen your credibility here mate.

Captain America knocked Wolverine during Enemy of State because he was extremely exhausted from having fought multiple opponents for DAYS, and exhaustion has been shown to lessen the effectiveness of Wolverine's healing factor thereby also lowering his durability. I can go get you scans now of multiple occasions where Logan has shrugged off shield bashes from Captain America.

I really can't believe you brought up the Daredevil throat chop incident as a legitimate showing. Garth Ennis has gone on record and said that he intentionally trying to make Wolverine look like a clown during the series. I mean, this is the same series where a hit from a baseball bat to the balls put Wolverine down, and you think anything from it should be taken seriously? Wolverine gets taken out by a nerve strike in that series when he's been hit with them by Shingen while poisoned and shrugged them off, took them from Echo (a woman with a copying ability similar to Taskmaster who copied Daredevil's skill with nerve strikes) tried them on Wolverine and just made him laugh, Psylocke tried a nerve strike on Logan and didn't even faze him. He's consistently gone unfazed by nerve strikes, and you want to use an inconsistent moment to try prove a point? That just made you look bad.

I can go get you 10+ scans right now that have Wolverine shaking off blunt force trauma much worse than what put him down in those egregiously inconsistent scans you presented to try prove your point. That was just a really bad post there man. I don't know if you're trying to be taken seriously, but posts like that aren't going to do it.

Not to mention pre-52 Deathstroke is no slug in tagging faster opponents.

#81 Posted by God_Spawn (37880 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii:

1. Daredevil is peak human - so no, I don't agree with you when you state he is not. That said, he hit a mind wiped Wolverine in the nose with a dumbell and knocked him off balance. Wolverine falls and impales himself on a sword ... he gets back up bud.

2. Again, Enemy of the State. Context is golden here. Captain America hit an exhausted Wolverine who'd been going non-stop for days. That's why he was able to sneak up behind Wolverine ... which would otherwise have been impossible. Also, understand, Captain America knocks Helicopters out of the sky with a shield toss (twice);

To be fair in the first instance, he didn't just get back up. After getting impaled, he stayed on the sword but had a moment of clarity as the mind control was briefly broken. He was then teleported away.

And as far as Cap goes, Steve didn't sneak up on him. Wolverine teleported away after getting hit by Kitty and Cyclops blasting him. He just so happened to be in the area where Steve was.

Moderator
#82 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii:

1. Daredevil is peak human - so no, I don't agree with you when you state he is not. That said, he hit a mind wiped Wolverine in the nose with a dumbell and knocked him off balance. Wolverine falls and impales himself on a sword ... he gets back up bud.

2. Again, Enemy of the State. Context is golden here. Captain America hit an exhausted Wolverine who'd been going non-stop for days. That's why he was able to sneak up behind Wolverine ... which would otherwise have been impossible. Also, understand, Captain America knocks Helicopters out of the sky with a shield toss (twice);

To be fair in the first instance, he didn't just get back up. After getting impaled, he stayed on the sword but had a moment of clarity as the mind control was briefly broken. He was then teleported away.

And as far as Cap goes, Steve didn't sneak up on him. Wolverine teleported away after getting hit by Kitty and Cyclops blasting him. He just so happened to be in the area where Steve was.

It amounts to exactly the same thing in both cases. Steve getting the drop on Wolverine from behind is highly unlikely against a perfectly cognizant Wolverine. Either way, I've no real problems with an exhausted and mind controlled Logan getting temporarily KO'd by an all out shield strike. Considering the damage output that shield is known for.

And Wolverine being coherent and fighting the conditioning after falling on the sword, amounts to the same as saying he was not taken out, or KO'd or whatever it is you want to delineate as "Oh look, Matt won that fight!".

#83 Posted by God_Spawn (37880 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: Which is fine. I'm just saying Cap didn't sneak up on him (in case someone actually tries to use said instance as proof as he can), and he didn't fall on the sword andgot up fresh as a spring daisy. He was talking to Matt and seemed to be a bit roughed up while still on it.

Still, I'm not disagreeing with either point. Logan during the EoS fight with Murdock was fighting the conditioning during the fight, and I would argue Wolverine was never 100% to begin with, considering they found him unconscious with 90% of his body burnt, and an eye missing. You don't see Logan put into a coma just to heal quite often. And from then on he was on a non stop tirade while fighting constantly.

Moderator
#84 Edited by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@super_soldierxii: Which is fine. I'm just saying Cap didn't sneak up on him (in case someone actually tries to use said instance as proof as he can), and he didn't fall on the sword andgot up fresh as a spring daisy. He was talking to Matt and seemed to be a bit roughed up while still on it.

Still, I'm not disagreeing with either point. Logan during the EoS fight with Murdock was fighting the conditioning during the fight, and I would argue Wolverine was never 100% to begin with, considering they found him unconscious with 90% of his body burnt, and an eye missing. You don't see Logan put into a coma just to heal quite often. And from then on he was on a non stop tirade while fighting constantly.

Agreed.

Again, and just to be sure I'm clear (as I admit my wording was misleading) what I meant in saying "sneaking up from behind" was he got the drop on Wolverine. A 100% fit Logan would have heard / smelled him coming.

As for Matt, I feel that was bad writing. And it was a low durability showing for Logan - who is all too often dummied down to accommodate the lesser street levelers (i.e. to keep them alive) . The point again was to say DD didn't take Wolverine out by that dumbbell blow to the nose (and even if he had, it would be an unbelievable amount of plot induced stupidity at play).

#85 Edited by RogueShadow (10690 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii said:

@rogueshadow:

Serious question; do you actually read through my arguments before responding? Because if not, let me know now and I'll save myself the time and energy ... I'm asking because you ignore many points while hanging onto things that don't highlight the crux of my argument at all. Point in case;

o you're main argument is that Wolverine can endure Spider-man's maximum output, I'll try to disprove that.

No. The argument between these two is can Spider-Man take down Wolverine, before Wolverine lands that ONE telling blow. That's pretty much the heart of it. Problem for Parker is, Wolverine can soak tons of blunt force trauma, whereas Spider-Man's not going to soak six twelve inch long adamantium claws through any part of his anatomy really. Another problem for Parker, is Wolverine has shown, in bonafide showings, that A) he can tag Spider-Man and B) Spider-Man is extremely hard pressed, even when going all out, to knock Wolverine out.

You have not, and cannot, disprove either A or B because their cumulative showings support my argument, not yours.

My scans are there to prove I don't think Spidey's getting tagged, he's far too fat, getting in and out of a car that is 5 metres away in 1/3 of a second whilst carr ying a fully grown men is no mean feat. My argument is that he's not going to tag him, hence the fight with 117 people, could Wolverine fight them, sure wthout getting tagged once? Doubt it, could he dodge 4 guys with semi machine guns, whilst remaining inbetween the gunfire. No, from the showings I've seen.

I state that Wolverine will last long enough in a brawl with Parker to tag him and put him away. I argue this is so based on their respective showings and, more so, based on their respective showings against one another.

I've already specified that I don't think Peter will definitely use solely his physicals. He could easily web Wolverine into a cocoon and then pummel him. He doesn't have to though.

Now, you've managed to pilfer the handful of low end showings concerning Wolverine from the Vine. Congrats. First, realize, there are dozens upon dozens of showings to contradict the paltry handful most Viners adhere to as their lifeline in these types of debates. So the consistency falls far, far in Wolverine's favor with regards his damage soak (against Thor, Ragnarok, Hulk, Namor, Sasquatch, Wendigo, She-Hulk, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, etc. etc.).

Actually only one of these is off the Vine, I already had most of the rest. Just saying...

I'll address your scans one by one, as it's fairly obvious you haven't read the material;

1. Daredevil is peak human - so no, I don't agree with you when you state he is not. That said, he hit a mind wiped Wolverine in the nose with a dumbell and knocked him off balance. Wolverine falls and impales himself on a sword ... he gets back up bud.

YES... I have read the material, and he gets back up after talking to Matt about how he's the bait. He didn't shrug the sword through the chest off either he had a difficult time with it, what's to stop Spidey from sticking his hand through Wolverine's chest? And at the end of the day there are tons and tons of scans out there of Wolverine getting tagged by bullets, arrows, generic hand members. You can argue that's Wolverine's MO, but in this fight that just won't cut it. Daredevil's peak? I thought he was just beneath peak, I can't say I've ever seen him do anything I've ever thought of as peak. Regardless the point is valid, Daredevil is nowhere as near as strong as Spidey, sure Wolverine was tired from days of fighting, but that's no excuse for a vulnerability to blunt force trauma like that.

2. Again, Enemy of the State. Context is golden here. Captain America hit an exhausted Wolverine who'd been going non-stop for days. That's why he was able to sneak up behind Wolverine ... which would otherwise have been impossible. Also, understand, Captain America knocks Helicopters out of the sky with a shield toss (twice);

Yes, I've read it, I have it, but I'm not talking about the sneaking up, that's pretty irrelevant here I agree.

Derails Thor's hammer in mid flight with a shield toss. Does this to a truck with a shield toss;

And a shield strike hits significantly harder. So really, let's not undermine the force with which his shield hits. (Cap managed to take out Spider-Man too btw.)

The Thor's Hammer is a little odd I'll admit, probably PIS to be honest, either that or the Hammer was going relatively slowly [I can't see the scan that well for some reason] the Helicopter blow doesn't surprise me, Spidey dishes out a hell of a lot more than that.

3. Garth Ennis. Nuff said. Funny thing is, you just contradicted your whole stand in this debate without even knowing it by allowing that showing. Should read the books you use beforehand bud. Wolverine was fighting both Spider-Man and Daredevil simultaneously in that showing. He took out Spider-Man with a kick to the groin (rather easily) before dropping to that throat chop;

Lol, fair enough, that scan was a joke... literally that's my fault if It was unclear I did put a wink face and a lol ,my bad.

So, using that feat, Wolverine took out Spider-Man rather easily. I don't use that feat personally, cuz it's full of WIS (writer induced stupidity). Wolverine's has had his throat slit, & torn out and kept on fighting. Like a throat chop would drop him. *But hey, you want to post low end feats, why don't I post the one where Daredevil beats Spider-Man?* You know why I don't? Because unlike you, I don't need to low ball the characters I'm debating against, and I know PIS (plot induced stupidity) and WIS when I see it.

Agreed

As for the Spider-Man feats you've shown, they don't amount to much at all - because they simply highlight talents we all know he possesses. One's from the same Civil War story arc that sees Spidey lose to Captain America. Y'know, the guy you show KO'ing an exhausted Wolverine by sneaking up from behind.

Spidey didn't lose to Cap, he was holding back because he was fighting the symbol of his country, he literally says as much, he was massively indecisive throughout that whole fight. The Spider-ma feats are showing how Spider-man can dodge around 100 opponents with guns, dance between hails of fire from multiple places and is a lot faster than Deadpool, who is tiered with Wolverine [In my opinion]. He doesn't et tagged once, when he doesn't want to get hit, Spidey won't get hi is my general point.

You want I should post Parker's low end showings? I can fill pages. I don't, because I know them for what they are. Inconsistent, writer induced crap. Kinda like a few showings you highlighted for Wolverine above (that, or you omit important context surrounding).

Okay, nobody got the joke.

Also, you talking about my showings being generic, so are yours, Wolverine cartwheels away from M-16 fire dodging bullets. They've all been used to hell, that's my point. I would have happily dropped this.

So the bedrock of you're argument is that Wolverine can take out Spidey's all out blows repeatedly and eventually tag him? The bedrock of mine is that he can't do either. Wolverine is often harmed badly by far lesser, far slower opponents, even when he is going all out, which for Wolverine often is.

#86 Posted by God_Spawn (37880 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: I don't think it was necessarily bad writing. Like I said, I don't think Logan was really at 100% from even the start of EoS. The damage he healed from still put him at a decent spot at the beginning, but by the time he got to Matt he had already gone through some of SHIELD, Elektra, and the Fantastic Four. He was also conversing with his mind controlled self virtually the entire fight with Murdock. A little plot devicey, sure, but EoS was extremely fair to Logan.

Moderator
#87 Posted by MonsterStomp (17915 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

Strength is somewhat overestimated in Deathstroke's n52 run. What feats does he really have besides ripping open an airplane door?

#88 Edited by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

My scans are there to prove I don't think Spidey's getting tagged, he's far too fat,

Lol.

He's not too fat, er, fast for Wolverine. Sorry. Fact is, Spidey gets tagged all the time. And he's been tagged repeatedly by Wolverine. So you are wrong. Showings, feats and even power-sets prove you wrong. Your opinion is fan based, not feat based. Wolverine will have to work for it, but then, so will Spider-Man. Difference is, in a brawl, Parker will have to get in close to engage. Wolverine need hit him only once. And, again, Deathstroke is involved in this battle! (Don't understand how even huge fanboys can see Parker beating both these guys at once for a majority.)

He could easily web Wolverine into a cocoon and then pummel him. He doesn't have to though.

Yes he could (though not "easily"). And yes he does.

To be clear; incapacitation is the only way Spider-Man takes a majority win over Wolverine. And this based off showings.

He didn't shrug the sword through the chest off either he had a difficult time with it,

Do to a healthy mix of exhaustion and so-so writing. But Matt certainly didn't beat Wolverine due to blunt force trauma with a dumbbell which is what you were suggesting. Clearly.

And at the end of the day there are tons and tons of scans out there of Wolverine getting tagged by bullets, arrows, generic hand members.

Yes. Because he can. Again, you are trying to compare avoidance feats. And again, you're confusing the issue. This is not a "who can avoid better" debate. Clearly Spider-Man is superior. I don't need to show Wolverine's avoidance capabilities. Only his combat speed. Which are enough to hang with Parker. His durability will deal well enough with Spider-Man's damage output - even Kaine, who is stronger than Peter, nearly broke his hand banging it against Wolverine's adamantium laced skull. So I could give two craps about avoidance.

The whole comparison started when you stated Wolverine could never avoid a bullet traveling at 4000 feet per second, and I called you on it. You were wrong. I was right. You pull comments like that out your arse a little too often to be blunt. Proving you wrong on that was the point of my bullet dodging scans. That is all.

You can argue that's Wolverine's MO, but in this fight that just won't cut it.

I don't need to argue its merits, and yes it will.

what's to stop Spidey from sticking his hand through Wolverine's chest?

An adamantium laced rib cage and sternum. And six twelve inch claws flying all up in his face. Obviously.

Spidey didn't lose to Cap,

Yes, he did.

he was holding back

You mean, like Wolverine does when he tangos with Parker? Punching him in the face claws sheathed ... or contenting himself to simply pin him claws to face?

I don't think Steve should beat Spider-Man. Nor should he beat Wolverine. My point in bringing that up was to contradict you using low end showings. You show Steve taking down Logan while ignoring context and consistency (heck, Logan soaked three shield strikes in their AvX confrontation alone), and Matt hitting him with a dumbbell as though that concludes that. As though those somehow prove Spider-Man can easily KO Logan ... when he's had a hell of a time doing so ON PANEL in three separate occasions.

Regardless the point is valid, Daredevil is nowhere as near as strong as Spidey, sure Wolverine was tired from days of fighting, but that's no excuse for a vulnerability to blunt force trauma like that.

Yes there is, it's called PIS. Like, if I show you DD hurting Spider-Man with a blow ... or how about Wolverine KOing Spider-Man (which is has) with one blow ... no excuse! No excuse! Right ...? You've got to take those showings, then draw them against the yard stick of consistency. Which you fail to grasp. PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY exists. It's real in comics. Don't just use it when it suits you, then discard it when it does not. Because then you lose credibility as a debater. Let me ask you this; do you honestly believe I cannot post dozens of feats showing Wolverine soaking far more for each and every low ball feat you care to post herein? Honestly??

The Spider-ma feats are showing how Spider-man can dodge around 100 opponents with guns,

Who cares? We know Spider-Man can dodge bullets by the multiples. So has Wolverine, Daredevil, Gambit, Captain America ... who cares???

dance between hails of fire from multiple places and is a lot faster than Deadpool, who is tiered with Wolverine [In my opinion]. He doesn't et tagged once, when he doesn't want to get hit, Spidey won't get hi is my general point.

Do you want me to show Spider-Man getting tagged by the Rhino? Who's dumb as a stump ... or any other number of significantly slower opponents? Here's the kicker; how does one showing against Deadpool mean he's too fast for Wolverine, when his showings against Wolverine himself show otherwise??? You don't make sense.

Okay, nobody got the joke.

Because it was presented and written with all seriousness that's why. I don't believe you were telling "a joke". But either way, doesn't matter.

So the bedrock of you're argument is that Wolverine can take out Spidey's all out blows repeatedly

Yes, because he has with far more consistency.

and eventually tag him?

Yes, because he has consistently.

The bedrock of mine is that he can't do either.

Which is wrong. Because he has. Consistently. Therefore, you are presenting a baseless opinion. Further, you are obstinately arguing a point feats have proven you wrong in and are therefore being pointlessly argumentative in your unwillingness to consent a point rife with fallacy - and I say this based on on panel evidence.

Wolverine is often harmed badly by far lesser, far slower opponents, even when he is going all out, which for Wolverine often is.

What a silly blanket comment. One that is likewise false when drawn against his power-set and far more consistent showings. But here, I can argue that way if you want; Spider-Man's been consistently tagged by far, far slower opponents, even when he's fighting hard to protect the innocents and those he loves.

See how easy those types of blanket comments are? Right then.

Wolverine can tag Spider-Man. Wolverine's damage output is far superior. Wolverine's durability can contend with Spider-Man's damage output. Therefore, in a brawl, Spider-Man loses a majority to Wolverine. Blood lust Parker, and he will be more prone to engage offensively which handicaps him further. Add Deathstroke into the mix? The outcome should be a foregone conclusion.

#89 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: I don't think it was necessarily bad writing. Like I said, I don't think Logan was really at 100% from even the start of EoS. The damage he healed from still put him at a decent spot at the beginning, but by the time he got to Matt he had already gone through some of SHIELD, Elektra, and the Fantastic Four. He was also conversing with his mind controlled self virtually the entire fight with Murdock. A little plot devicey, sure, but EoS was extremely fair to Logan.

Overall, it was fair I guess ... though DD and CA kinda had their stars polished at his expense in the end analysis, which I find a little sketchy. I can live with it though.

#90 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

Strength is somewhat overestimated in Deathstroke's n52 run. What feats does he really have besides ripping open an airplane door?

He has consistent feats, from breaking chains with his hand, snapping a sword in half without his suit, and manhandling Hawkman who is a 6 tonner.

#91 Posted by MonsterStomp (17915 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@patrat18 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

Strength is somewhat overestimated in Deathstroke's n52 run. What feats does he really have besides ripping open an airplane door?

He has consistent feats, from breaking chains with his hand, snapping a sword in half without his suit, and manhandling Hawkman who is a 6 tonner.

Any street leveller could pull that off. Slade beat a submarine bencher, doesn't make Slade any stronger than 2-3 tons.

#92 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:
@monsterstomp said:

@patrat18 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

Strength is somewhat overestimated in Deathstroke's n52 run. What feats does he really have besides ripping open an airplane door?

He has consistent feats, from breaking chains with his hand, snapping a sword in half without his suit, and manhandling Hawkman who is a 6 tonner.

Any street leveller could pull that off. Slade beat a submarine bencher, doesn't make Slade any stronger than 2-3 tons.

Ripping a steel airplane door off its henges with one arm makes him around 5-6 tonner.

#93 Edited by RogueShadow (10690 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: I'm so bored of this. You make far more umbrella statements than me, such as, yes, because he has consistently tagged spidey. es, none bloodlusted, and he's also been tagged by a none bloodlusted spidey and been knocked for a loop, you're just saying actually you're wrong because he can, not much substance. I literally can't be bothered to go through and arguefor another week. Lol about the fat though. My feats show a none bloodlusted spidey. I'm not saying that Wolverine can't beat a normal peter, but bloodlusted, he can't keep up, he barely can when anyway. Maybe I'm overestimating his morals off capabilities, maybe you're underestimating his morals off capabilities. I think that given what he can do to Wolverine none bloodlusted, much less than Wolvie Shall we leave it at that?

One thing that's really irking me is how much you are understating Spidey's casual dodging of blitz' f fire, without even getting out of their way, just flat out moving inbetween the bullets. Something Wolverine has never done as far as I can remember, not to that degree anyway. Wolverine's bee hurt by hand members and goddamn and random Hydra agents whereas Spider-man very rarely gets tagged.

Okay well that's my two cents.

Shall we drop it? I think it ends like this, shortly followed by a flurry of fists:

You think it ends like this:

Shortly followed by a snikt

Let's face it, they're good friends, this is how they're fights go:

Shake hands?

#94 Posted by AnnoyedImmortalSpirit (768 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Spiderman wins, but only if bloodlusted

#95 Posted by MonsterStomp (17915 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@cable_extreme said:
@monsterstomp said:

@patrat18 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

Strength is somewhat overestimated in Deathstroke's n52 run. What feats does he really have besides ripping open an airplane door?

He has consistent feats, from breaking chains with his hand, snapping a sword in half without his suit, and manhandling Hawkman who is a 6 tonner.

Any street leveller could pull that off. Slade beat a submarine bencher, doesn't make Slade any stronger than 2-3 tons.

Ripping a steel airplane door off its henges with one arm makes him around 5-6 tonner.

How? Where's the logic behind that?

#96 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@monsterstomp said:

@cable_extreme said:
@monsterstomp said:

@patrat18 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@patrat18 said:

Spiderman takes this. Mainly because it's PRE 52 Slade.

If anything, pre-52 Slade has better speed feats than New 52

Not when it comes to durability and strength.

Strength is somewhat overestimated in Deathstroke's n52 run. What feats does he really have besides ripping open an airplane door?

He has consistent feats, from breaking chains with his hand, snapping a sword in half without his suit, and manhandling Hawkman who is a 6 tonner.

Any street leveller could pull that off. Slade beat a submarine bencher, doesn't make Slade any stronger than 2-3 tons.

Ripping a steel airplane door off its henges with one arm makes him around 5-6 tonner.

How? Where's the logic behind that?

A steel door, of an airplane.......

Steel airplane doors are created highly durable to withstand high altitude pressurized cabins and high speeds. To rip it off with one arm, while going 5 hundred miles an hour

#97 Posted by MonsterStomp (17915 posts) - - Show Bio
#98 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@cable_extreme: That doesn't make it any more quantifiable lol.

What do you want me to do? I have told you why he is 5-6 ton strength, it is pretty evident.

Hawkman is around 6 tons, and Deathstroke can manhandle him, and Deathstroke is able to cause damage to him with blunt force.

#99 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6356 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Actually, I think Spider-Man should beat Wolverine via webbing for a majority. That said, I have not seen anything to show me a blood lusted Spider-Man would opt to use his webbing to settle this fight. Further, if Parker brawls with Wolverine he loses.The fact Deathstroke and Wolverine are involved in this fight means Parker doubly loses.

We can shake hands, sure, but I cannot understand, webbing and tech aside, how you feel Parker would beat Wolverine so succinctly in a hand to hand fight. Really, makes me wonder.

Cheers.

#100 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9266 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Actually, I think Spider-Man should beat Wolverine via webbing for a majority. That said, I have not seen anything to show me a blood lusted Spider-Man would opt to use his webbing to settle this fight. Further, if Parker brawls with Wolverine he loses.The fact Deathstroke and Wolverine are involved in this fight means Parker doubly loses.

We can shake hands, sure, but I cannot understand, webbing and tech aside, how you feel Parker would beat Wolverine so succinctly in a hand to hand fight. Really, makes me wonder.

Cheers.

Agreed, a blood lusted Spidey won't try and simply web up Wolverine, he will want blood, which is a big mistake versing Wolverine.