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#1 Edited by Om4zd (922 posts) - - Show Bio

Who would win in an all out battle?

VS
#2 Edited by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch

#3 Posted by baron2011 (1153 posts) - - Show Bio

monarch easy

#4 Posted by YoggSaron (812 posts) - - Show Bio

Seid.

#5 Posted by Hawk80 (351 posts) - - Show Bio

judjing from countdown-arena.... Monarch...

I cannot just accept how he was beated by superboy prime... absurd!!!

#6 Posted by Killemall (18580 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch has better stats, biggest problem is DS's omega beam. IF he can somehow tank it, it shouldnt be a big problem for Monarch to finish DS.

#7 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch easily,who power as big bang as powerful?LOL!

PC DS is not far powerful than current DS,the people belive PC DS beat SA superman(PIS)but ,this wrong,he just beat a very weak BA superman

superman-prime>monarch>>>>>>PC DS>>>>>>>BA superman=superboy-prime level

#8 Posted by UNIQUE69 (200 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

Pre-Crisis Darkseid

#9 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@UNIQUE69 said:

@jeanroygrant said:

Pre-Crisis Darkseid

prove it?

#10 Posted by SirMethos (1330 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch, relatively easily.

#11 Posted by Om4zd (922 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

#12 Edited by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

@a88378438 said:

@UNIQUE69 said:

@jeanroygrant said:

Pre-Crisis Darkseid

prove it?

Superman Prime beat Monarch. Superman Prime = Pre-crisis Superman. Pre-crisis Darkseid>>>>>>Pre-crisis Superman. Hence, Darkseid stomps Monarch.

#13 Posted by King Saturn (224205 posts) - - Show Bio
Pre Crisis Darkseid blasts Monarch with Force Beams... Monarch explodes causes a Near Universal Destructive Explosion... The End.  
[=
#14 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@a88378438 said:

@UNIQUE69 said:

@jeanroygrant said:

Pre-Crisis Darkseid

prove it?

Superman Prime beat Monarch. Superman Prime = Pre-crisis Superman. Pre-crisis Darkseid>>>>>>Pre-crisis Superman. Hence, Darkseid stomps Monarch.

PC DS >>>>>PC superman,right

PC DS>>>>>>>BA superman,right

PC DS>>>>>>>SA superman(PIS) wrong

PC DS never beat a SA superman,this was Huge mistake, for a long time

PC DS first appeared in the bronze age, and bronze age Superman is far far far far weaker than the silver age superman

A giant missile can kill him, the bomb will stun him, Struggle moving planet, often be defeated, etc

In the silver age, Superman is absolute invulnerability, even if they also have other charater, invulnerability, they will also absolute invulnerability

in the bronze age..just enough power,that could be hurt even kill superman,,this is Different power

prove?i Give an example

SA superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PC DS>>>>>PC validus>>>>>PC/BA superman>PC mongul

superman-prime=At least very close to a high bronze age of Superman (can survive the big bang)>monarch>>>>>>>>>>>>>Superboy-prime=BA superman(normal)

Then we look at from the feat.the monarch could destroy entire universe,the PC DS never prove was a even galaxy buster

monarch>PC DS in feats

#15 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

Now,i tell your how weak BA superman,(Although, most of the time, the BA Superman has far weaker than SA superman show, but a few in the story, he" recovery" silver age Superman level, but really just Very little story)

THE CM COULD

The deadlock and superman:

But CM feat is best..

even pre-52 superman has better feats than this:

also has too many Evidence, pre-crisis MM and WW wrestle stalemate, and WW ( earth-one ) even can ' t move a planet... MM is described as close to the superman strength level..

All of these are for bronze Superman

#16 Posted by Killemall (18580 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

Superman Prime beat Monarch. Superman Prime = Pre-crisis Superman. Pre-crisis Darkseid>>>>>>Pre-crisis Superman. Hence, Darkseid stomps Monarch.

Can you prove any of this.

1. Can you prove Superman prime = Pre-crisis Superman ??

2. Can you also prove PC Darkseid >>>>> Pre-crisis Superman (the same version that you are assuming is = Superman prime)

Because even if you could prove both those, and i am fairly certain you cannot, that is still ABC logic which doesnt work.

#17 Posted by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@AweSam said:

Superman Prime beat Monarch. Superman Prime = Pre-crisis Superman. Pre-crisis Darkseid>>>>>>Pre-crisis Superman. Hence, Darkseid stomps Monarch.

Can you prove any of this.

1. Can you prove Superman prime = Pre-crisis Superman ??

2. Can you also prove PC Darkseid >>>>> Pre-crisis Superman (the same version that you are assuming is = SupermSupan prime)

Because even if you could prove both those, and i am fairly certain you cannot, that is still ABC logic which doesnt work.

1: Superman Prime is pre-crisis Superman, just from another Earth.

2: Superman and Darkseid fought in The Great Darkness Saga. Superman got his ass handed to him.

#18 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

pre-crisis=Golden Age+silver age+bronze age

Among them, the golden age Superman is from the earth-two, and the silver age, the bronze age Superman is one and the same, but different power levels and age

General" PC" refers to the bronze age, and in the bronze age, Superman was great weakening ( although still is pre-52Superman .) but it is not absolutely invincible, only a few stories in his power is silver age Superman level, most of the time, I saw him often appear ridiculous low feat, even the karate kid can hurt him.

Superboy-prime = bronze Superman, the Superman can move planets, but need to struggle, all his power like SBP level

And superboy-prime grow up to superman-prime, SMP is close to SIlver age Superman level ( the big bang )

PC DS has never been proved a galaxy Buster, and the monarch's attacks are Universal

monarch kill PC DS super easy

#19 Posted by Killemall (18580 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

1: Superman Prime is pre-crisis Superman, just from another Earth.

2: Superman and Darkseid fought in The Great Darkness Saga. Superman got his ass handed to him.

  1. Pre-crisis superman can be silver age and bronge age, the one that Darkseid beat is bronge age, also superman from alternate reality =/= Superman from earth 1. Also it was stated that he was Superman from earth prime, no mention of him being a pre-crisis Superman has ever been stated, unless you can show me a scan or quote a issue.
  2. The Great Darkness Saga is a part of Legion of Superheroes and therefore the guy who fought Darkseid was Superboy (and Supergirl). Also The Great Darkness saga takes place on 30st century, more than a 1000 years in the future. The feats performed by Darkseid in future does not automatically apply to him in the past. If anything during the Great Darkness Saga Darkseid looked a lot more powerful than he was before the arc, he was able to mindcontrol entire Legion , new gods and still fight Orion on the side.

So yeah in short, i am not convinced, not in the least, unless you have anything so prove it.

#20 Posted by SirMethos (1330 posts) - - Show Bio

SBP defeating Monarch was PIS.

The only reason he actually defeated him, was because he ripped his(monarch's) armor apart, and the only reason that he could do that, was because Monarch had damaged the armor himself in the first place.

SBP vs. Monarch is comparable to the Hulk/Sentry fight in the WWH storyline. A universal(if not multiversal) threat, whose primary power is Energy Manipulation, engages what is possibly the strongest physical being in the DC universe, in a slugfest. -.- Monarch/Cap. Atom, might not be the swiftest fish in the bowl, but he's not that stupid. Again, pure PIS.

#21 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos:beat Monarch not "SBP" is SMP,SMP is far powerful than SBP,he will close to SA superman

@Killemall: i agree,in fact,the PC DS only beat a weak BA superman,he even not close a galaxy buster

#22 Posted by SirMethos (1330 posts) - - Show Bio

@a88378438: The point still stands, his fight against Monarch was pure PIS.

#23 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos said:

@a88378438: The point still stands, his fight against Monarch was pure PIS.

monarch is more powerful than SMP,he has too many power and could Universal Attack

but the monarch he can't beat SMP,i don't why you say this,

SMP no large-scale attack ability does not mean that he is weak

In addition, we only know SMP" monarch is in the manga true ( if not, at least two are equal )

#24 Posted by Killemall (18580 posts) - - Show Bio

I cant really understand what you are trying to say but if i am getting it correct you mean SMP > Monarch? Which i do not agree at all.

@a88378438 said:

monarch is more powerful than SMP,he has too many power and could Universal Attack

His best destruction feat would be being able to rip a planet into half, what makes you think he has universal level attack? Monarch on the other hand has, he has the power of the big bang.

but the monarch he can't beat SMP,i don't why you say this,

Because based on what we know of both the character Monarch should be a lot more powerful. SMP might be stronger but that doesnt conter the many many other powers Monarch has. Whats stopping Monarch from taking SMP into the quantum zone where Monarch cannot simply lose?

SMP no large-scale attack ability does not mean that he is weak

IT does mean he is WEAKER than someone who has more potential attack like Monarch and hence Monarch should have beaten him had he fought smart.

In addition, we only know SMP" monarch is in the manga true ( if not, at least two are equal )

But it doesnt make sense, why would someone who has so many power get into a meele with Superman Prime while Monarch could have easily dumped Superman Prime into the quantum zone and left him there to die.

#25 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

I cant really understand what you are trying to say but if i am getting it correct you mean SMP > Monarch? Which i do not agree at all.

@a88378438 said:

monarch is more powerful than SMP,he has too many power and could Universal Attack

His best destruction feat would be being able to rip a planet into half, what makes you think he has universal level attack? Monarch on the other hand has, he has the power of the big bang.

but the monarch he can't beat SMP,i don't why you say this,

Because based on what we know of both the character Monarch should be a lot more powerful. SMP might be stronger but that doesnt conter the many many other powers Monarch has. Whats stopping Monarch from taking SMP into the quantum zone where Monarch cannot simply lose?

SMP no large-scale attack ability does not mean that he is weak

IT does mean he is WEAKER than someone who has more potential attack like Monarch and hence Monarch should have beaten him had he fought smart.

In addition, we only know SMP" monarch is in the manga true ( if not, at least two are equal )

But it doesnt make sense, why would someone who has so many power get into a meele with Superman Prime while Monarch could have easily dumped Superman Prime into the quantum zone and left him there to die.

yes,SMP is stronger than monarch,monarch is more power than SMP,in the comic,i Remember that SMP is the dominant

monarch is universal level,because he power was a big bang,you talk about?BRO....

monarch more poweful than SMP,i agree,but not mean he can beat SMP,in the comic,i just look them fight to Intense, if the monarch is much powerful than SMP, he will only be easier to kill him

the SMP Survive a big bang

I say his invulnerability is more than bronze superman close to silver Superman, he is not stronger than the monarch ,but also,the monarch is not a lot more powerful than him,if so,he just can easily kill SMp,I didn't see, in the manga, two charater has such a big gap, I only see both sides in the fierce battle,sorry

#26 Posted by HolySerpent (12546 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch wins

#27 Posted by Killemall (18580 posts) - - Show Bio

@a88378438 said:

yes,SMP is stronger than monarch,monarch is more power than SMP,in the comic,i Remember that SMP is the dominant

Superman Prime is stronger than monarch but Monarch is many times more powerful, therefore what me and SirMethos are saying is, SMP should have lost to Monarch rather than what happened in comics. This is why he say its PIS.

monarch is universal level,because he power was a big bang,you talk about?BRO....

Do you use google translate to translate chinese into english?? Sorry i though you said Superman Prime is a universe level, which i do not agree. Monarch on the other hand is perhaps close to universal level, although he doesnt really have feats to prove him that far powerful.

monarch more poweful than SMP,i agree,but not mean he can beat SMP,in the comic,i just look them fight to Intense, if the monarch is much powerful than SMP, he will only be easier to kill him

If Monarch is more powerful than Superman Prime, which of course he is , why cant he beat Superman Prime?

The problem is the fight was PIS, why would Monarch fight superman prime hand-to-hand when he could easily just take him to Quantum Zone and Kill him there. Monarch fighting Superman Prime with fist makes no sense, Monarch might not be the smartest person in the world but he sure should not be so dumb. That battle was made for Superman Prime to win, if both use their power Monarch should have easily beaten Superman Prime.

the SMP Survive a big bang

This has nothing to do with fighting Monarch who could very easily dump him into quantum zone.

I say his invulnerability is more than bronze superman close to silver Superman, he is not stronger than the monarch

He is stronger than Monarch but Monarch has many other powers in him so he should be able to beat Superman Prime easily.

but also,the monarch is not a lot more powerful than him,if so,he just can easily kill SMp,I didn't see, in the manga, two charater has such a big gap,

That is why me and SirMethos are calling it a PIS because seeing Monarch powers he should be able to easily beat Superman Prime, dont know about killing but beating him should have been easy.

I only see both sides in the fierce battle,sorry

That is because of 2 things:

  1. The fight was horribly written.
  2. Monarch has many powers but he does not use anything against Superman Prime but chooses to fight him hand to hand, which was just stupid from Monarch. Because Monarch has so many powers, which he could use, he did not use anything, we consider that fight a PIS (Plot induced Stupidity, in simple words: Monarch losing to Superman Prime which happened in comics was just stupid).
#28 Posted by SirMethos (1330 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch could(without PIS) have killed SMP with only a small fraction of his powers.

To use an example from a different pair of characters: Superman himself, has said that Triumph could kill him(superman) in seconds, simply by cutting the solar energy in his body, off from his cells.(Triumph's power is Electro-Magnetic energy manipulation).

Monarch can do exactly the same thing to SMP. SMP has more energy in his body than Superman, but Monarch is almost infinitely more powerful than Triumph. Monarch could, this way, have killed SMP with a single thought, and never broken a sweat. Instead, he engaged him in a slugfest. -.- As I said, Pure PIS.

#29 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall:ok,you say monarch can kill SMP because " Quantum Zone",he not use this,if he use this ,he could be kill SMP,i agree

monarch is more powerful than SMP,i mean,Simple melee, does not consider other force, this is the key to the problem..

Is still the language barrier, apparently

#30 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

Then, SMP no large-scale attack capability, so he can't be near universe Buster

But he can be close to universe Buster monarch ( yes I know monarch hand-to-hand, monarch can use other power to kill him,But they fight is be roughly the same.)

#31 Posted by higher_evolutionary (2015 posts) - - Show Bio

i think pre crisis darkseid is being underestimated here
and does monarch really have the power of the big bang, when was the that the countdown?, iirc the countdown is now non canon (i am not sure but did read about it i a lot of threads)

#32 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@higher_evolutionary:hi,

BRO, haven't seen you for so long!

no,the PC DS is nothing,he never prove he was a galaxy buster or more,the monarch has better feats,

For a long time a lot of crazy fanboy said PC DS beat" Silver Superman age"

This is the great irony and exaggeration, because PC DS first appeared in the Bronze Age

Long lie

#33 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

then,the smp is far powerful /stronger than SBP,though,SMP is nothing to SA superman or kal kent

#34 Posted by Angel_0f_Death (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-Crisis Darkseid is GDS levels correct?? If so...... Monarch does indeed get erased from existence.

#35 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@Angel_0f_Death said:

Pre-Crisis Darkseid is GDS levels correct?? If so...... Monarch does indeed get erased from existence.

I don't know how powerful PC DS, but I know that two points, for a long time lies

First, PC DS never beat silver age Superman, he first appeared in the Bronze Age

Second, while the bronze age, sometimes bronze superman strength almost as strong as silver age Superman but this is only a very small story, the vast majority of Superman is a HUGE Weaken, you can see my scan, a huge missile can kill him, nuclear bombs made him dizzy, even current(pre_52 superman can,Surviving a nuclear bom with easily

I don't know why bronze Superman is nuclear vertigo ) not absolute invulnerability ( I give a very good example in the first few pages )

Struggling to move the earth ( you can see my scan, CM and Mary Marvel feats is not far powerful than pre-52Superman feats, even I think pre-52Superman feats is more impressive

#36 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

In addition to a lie ( if I was wrong, please forgive me )

The composite Superman is three times as strong silver age Superman, but I only in a World 's Finest Comics, Superman and Batman found it," three time stronger than superman" literally exists only in the bronze age, I know that the composite Superman first appeared in the silver age, but I saw his defeat Superman use other power, rather than mere muscle strength, and" three time stronger than superman" also happen in the Bronze Age

#37 Posted by Om4zd (922 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

#38 Posted by termiteone4ever (7364 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting Battle But the Monarch has always been a powerful freak

#39 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@termiteone4ever said:

Interesting Battle But the Monarch has always been a powerful freak

i agree,he was big bang power,is far powerful than PC DS or BA superman,he could kill SMP,because Quantum Zone

but,if this battle is SA superman vs monarch,LOL,i go to SA superman

#40 Posted by JustoCrusto (26 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow you guys were all over the place with this battle but you overlooked something very critical. first off you should always try to put you urge to always root for your favorite or the person you like better. we are not comparing feats or other battles won you got to look at the 2 individuals and rate them based on only them. Also in these battles we tend to make the number one thing we account in these battles is physical strength am I wrong? but in that category I would have to say they are even. that is taking away all other powers but strength. but then when you add in the others powers like the OE (so on and so fourth) I mean this power can erase people from there very existence so on that fact alone I would give it to darkseid he is. but then again monarch has a very nifty suite that might be able to deflect his OE but we don't know any of those things for sure. I darkseid is a God So I am going to assume that the OE would work in this case. but hey thats my opinion. either way its a hard fight.

#41 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@JustoCrusto said:

Wow you guys were all over the place with this battle but you overlooked something very critical. first off you should always try to put you urge to always root for your favorite or the person you like better. we are not comparing feats or other battles won you got to look at the 2 individuals and rate them based on only them. Also in these battles we tend to make the number one thing we account in these battles is physical strength am I wrong? but in that category I would have to say they are even. that is taking away all other powers but strength. but then when you add in the others powers like the OE (so on and so fourth) I mean this power can erase people from there very existence so on that fact alone I would give it to darkseid he is. but then again monarch has a very nifty suite that might be able to deflect his OE but we don't know any of those things for sure. I darkseid is a God So I am going to assume that the OE would work in this case. but hey thats my opinion. either way its a hard fight.

I know PC DS power, but you say that, I rarely meet, he fight with Orion, BA Superman and BA Supergirl, never use it

And BA Superman was nothing, taking into account, I really don't know PC DS is far more powerful than current DS ( pre-52) even pre-52DS could beat SBP, and SBP was BA Superman level, so.

The pC DS is not far powerful than current DS, long lies, in fact, including the Martian Manhunter ( his strength with earth-one Wonder Woman equal, but the funny thing is, earth-one wonder woman can't, don't close to the planet class,she can't lift/move a planet,only earth-two wonder woman,once move a moon,but pre-52 wonder woman has better feats), Hal Jordan ( also, in addition to stop the universe of time outside, he is not the same as impressive, I mean, he more than post-crisis hal jordan, but not much, the only thing that interests me is before the crisis, he also can pass through time and space ), and Orion ( I read his comic, in the bronze age, not impressive )

all pre-crisis charater,is not far powerful than pre-52 charater(you read my scan,CM and mary marvel,did you think pre-crisis CM is far powerful than pre-52 CM?NO!

#42 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

all PC charater,all superman,all hero,Include, BA Superman,superboy-prime

once Attack can destroy the entire solar system!(wow,"poweful")

I believe that most people have seen this scan

But the vast majority of people" i can't see" I don't know why

So obviously the huge gap of why people say" PC DS beat SA Superman"?

#43 Posted by Om4zd (922 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

#44 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20254 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch. Only problem he has with Darkseid is omega beams.

#45 Posted by Almighty_Darkseid (1724 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#46 Posted by logy5000 (5779 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman Prime beat Monarch. Why can't Pre-Crisis Darkseid?

#47 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a little confused with Monarch real power level and abilities... I know that he has great amount of energy in himself, but similar thing can be said about Stellaris, who wasn't above Thor but when her energy was released it destroyed galaxy.

#48 Posted by justleader (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch wins

#49 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch but not easily.

#50 Posted by logy5000 (5779 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

After reading a bit a comics w/ both PC Darkseid & Monarch, I think it depends.

Monarch's blasts didn't seem to injure Superman Prime at all unless he really cut loose. I'd say Darkseid's durability levels are in the same league as Prime's.

Prime beat Monarch, and at this thread: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/pre-crisis-darkseid-vs-superman-prime/582962/ it seems pretty clear that everyone thinks that Darkseid>>>>Prime.

However, if Darkseid uses the omega beams, it will quite possibly blast open Monarch's armor. Once that happens I doubt that Darkseid would be in good shape, since his armor was destroyed by the combined blasts of the legion.

Either way I'm convinced that Darkseid should win.