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#1 Posted by darklord_apoc (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

VS!!!

Both are powerful in their own way. Battle takes place on Endor (starwars moon). Both have 24hrs of prep. Both are blood thirsty so no morals. 3 rounds or until 1 dies first. Let the games begin!

#2 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

dormammu

#3 Posted by KingAres109 (1293 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this Darkseid during The Great Darkness Saga??If it is I'll roll with DS.

#4 Posted by darklord_apoc (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

dormammu

Why do you say he will win?

#5 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu should win rather handily.

#6 Posted by spawn_123 (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu

#7 Posted by mk111 (3141 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe Dormammu.

#8 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1390 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu stomps.

#9 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid, Dormammu is cool but have to run DS here. Especially Pre-Crisis version..

I also remember one arch where Spectre killed him and DS came back from the ashes literally like nothing(due to the Source)

This is what I'm referring to. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say Spectre would demolish Dormammu as well...

#10 Posted by NeonGameWave (8462 posts) - - Show Bio

It could go either way.

#11 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vaeternus: Firstly not pre-crisis Darkseid. And Secondly Darkseid that instance is taken out of context, or perhaps misunderstood, what the source said was Spectre isnt allowed to kill Darkseid and hence he was back. Make sense given Spectre has some weird limitations on him, like being unable to tell JLA that Atom's wife was the killer during Identity Crisis. Then again Darkseid was killed just fine by Superman (after DS was weakened of course) during Final Crisis.

Darkseid isnt some unkillable person, and as long as you don't put too much stock on Great Darkness Saga, he isnt much powerful either. He isnt cut out to be in this level.

#12 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5229 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I love Darkseid, Dormammu stomps

#13 Posted by LubeMan (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Vaeternus: Firstly not pre-crisis Darkseid. And Secondly Darkseid that instance is taken out of context, or perhaps misunderstood, what the source said was Spectre isnt allowed to kill Darkseid and hence he was back. Make sense given Spectre has some weird limitations on him, like being unable to tell JLA that Atom's wife was the killer during Identity Crisis. Then again Darkseid was killed just fine by Superman (after DS was weakened of course) during Final Crisis.

Darkseid isnt some unkillable person, and as long as you don't put too much stock on Great Darkness Saga, he isnt much powerful either. He isnt cut out to be in this level.

Agreed on all accounts

#14 Posted by dondave (38809 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu

#15 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Vaeternus: Firstly not pre-crisis Darkseid. And Secondly Darkseid that instance is taken out of context, or perhaps misunderstood, what the source said was Spectre isnt allowed to kill Darkseid and hence he was back. Make sense given Spectre has some weird limitations on him, like being unable to tell JLA that Atom's wife was the killer during Identity Crisis. Then again Darkseid was killed just fine by Superman (after DS was weakened of course) during Final Crisis.

Darkseid isnt some unkillable person, and as long as you don't put too much stock on Great Darkness Saga, he isnt much powerful either. He isnt cut out to be in this level.

yes, the op states pre crisis DS in the title..who was known to be very powerful compared to other eras and versions. I think you misunderstood what imean, never said ds can't be killed in general or that that particular arch was from pc darkseid. Perhaps i should have worded it better..

Secondly, more or less you just repeated what i posted lol. I'm aware of the source not allowing spectre to kill DS and even stated such....thirdly, neither is dormammu immune to death either...he's not that powerful compared to a lot of other comic characters have done feat wise, including DS's historically has a lot more then dorm has. dorm is known to be far weaker outside of his realm and isn't that huge of a threat in mu compared to other people.

DS's power levels historically speaking are very inconsistent, especially against superman for one with his omegga beams, effect etc and in cases of supes tossing him into the sun(which also should have killed him) i personally think that source saving ds from spectre's hands was a plot device.

Still, while i do believe the gds darkseid can definitely handle dormam.

#16 Posted by darklord_apoc (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Vaeternus: Firstly not pre-crisis Darkseid. And Secondly Darkseid that instance is taken out of context, or perhaps misunderstood, what the source said was Spectre isnt allowed to kill Darkseid and hence he was back. Make sense given Spectre has some weird limitations on him, like being unable to tell JLA that Atom's wife was the killer during Identity Crisis. Then again Darkseid was killed just fine by Superman (after DS was weakened of course) during Final Crisis.

Darkseid isnt some unkillable person, and as long as you don't put too much stock on Great Darkness Saga, he isnt much powerful either. He isnt cut out to be in this level.

What are some of Dormammu's feats that he can do to D.S?

#17 Posted by Nefarious (21959 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu.

#18 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

Dormammu.

This.

#19 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vaeternus said:

yes, the op states pre crisis DS in the title..who was known to be very powerful compared to other eras and versions. I think you misunderstood what imean, never said ds can't be killed in general or that that particular arch was from pc darkseid. Perhaps i should have worded it better..

Well the continuity says otherwise. Not only does current Darkseid have better feats, when they met PC Darkseid himself acclaimed current Darkseid was more powerful.

Secondly, more or less you just repeated what i posted lol. I'm aware of the source not allowing spectre to kill DS and even stated such...

No i did not actually. You post only said he was brought back to life, ignoring the fact that such limitation was place on Spectre and Spectre only, and that dis-regards what has happened before or after .

.thirdly, neither is dormammu immune to death either..

Dormammu is an extra dimensional entity, and as such are generally immune to normal death. Furthermore, Dormammu has been blown into many peices and has reformed (eventually), and has never died on panel.

he's not that powerful compared to a lot of other comic characters have done feat wise, including DS's historically has a lot more then dorm has.

Firstly Dormammu is pretty accomplised for his power level, its just few people would try and argue he is above IG and the argument falls apart.

That being said, love to see you substantiate that part.

dorm is known to be far weaker outside of his realm and isn't that huge of a threat in mu compared to other people.

Dormammu is weaker outside his realm that much is true, weaker than Darkseid, not really.

And you are trying to say Darkseid is a bigger threat to DC than Dormammu, again why? Based on what?

DS's power levels historically speaking are very inconsistent, especially against superman for one with his omegga beams, effect etc and in cases of supes tossing him into the sun(which also should have killed him) i personally think that source saving ds from spectre's hands was a plot device.

Darkseid power level is pretty consistent actually, people just have this opinion that Darkseid is meant to be some cosmic being who dwarf Superman and everyone else in power level which is why everything apart from an extremely amped up version (Great Darkness Saga) look like inconsistency.

Based on his majority of feat, he is just a Superman + level character with some very powerful attacks, neither of which should really warrent Dormammu any sort of trouble.

Still, while i do believe the gds darkseid can definitely handle dormam.

Again based on what?

#20 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu wins this easily.

#21 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc said:

What are some of Dormammu's feats that he can do to D.S?

Destroying an entire dimension, going Kamakazi on Eternity which weakened Eternity to a point Nightmare was able to capture him (but unlike what most people make it sound like Dormammu did not defeat Eternity), Froze Hulk solid with magic, he has done so to Avengers and Defeanders together as well froze them in time.

#22 Posted by thanobomb1124 (2016 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu IMO

#23 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall Based on beter feats historically? And unlike dorm, Darkseid isnt altered nor limited to his powers elsewhere outside of his home world of apokalips..Which is why i said, darkseid at his best as in the GDA can definitely take out dormam and i don't believe at full power is weaker then dorm, dorm has limitations based on where he is, ds does not...and yes, i'm saying DS is and has been a bigger threat to people in dcu far more then dorm has in mu. He's not even top 10 most powerful mu characters, where as DS has made that list in dcu. Concerning dorm being a powerful entity, you realize that means little against the omega effect right? DS has harmed spectre with it, yet he's an entity 100x more powerful then dorm is...the fact that some people think dormam is ig level then things fall apart proves that he's overrated if anything.

Actually, that's because DS has been inconsistent example, his beams at times have done things to superman from hardly effecting him to koing him, i'd say that's pretty inconsistent..

And your continuity point is kind of moot being as how, the current darkseid is new 52 in which he hasn't shown many crazy feats yet outside of defeating the jl and ko-ing superman. physically, yes they're comparable but DS has other powers that Superman really has little answers for and yes im a superman fan myself. They have kicked each others butts over time but overall ds is still considered more powerful then supes, that's not to say superman can't handle him though since he has.

Actually, that's how you seemed to interpret my post, not what I said though or meant. I never specified nor said that only spectre wasn't allowed to kill him, i was using that as an example due to the fact that spectre is far more powerful then darkseid yet the source didn't allow him to kill darkseid. point is who's to say the source wouldn't do the same thing to dorm if he tried ridding darkseid? you don't know....

#24 Posted by kingsloth (249 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jedisupermaster said:

Dormammu stomps.

#25 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio
@kingsloth said:

@Jedisupermaster said:

Dormammu stomps.

#26 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu.

#27 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vaeternus said:

@Killemall Based on beter feats historically?

What feat, the Great Darkness Saga amped up version, its not like Dormammu doesnt have amped up version.

And unlike dorm, Darkseid isnt altered nor limited to his powers elsewhere outside of his home world of apokalips..

That absolutely doesnt matter because Dormammu has gone up against freakin Eternity outside of his Dark Dimension, and at one point even stole the power of eternity and created his very own universe with all heroes, villians, and even gods (pantheons).

Which is why i said, darkseid at his best as in the GDA can definitely take out dormam and i don't believe at full power is weaker then dorm,

Again i ask based on what is Darkseid better than Dormammu?

1. When has Darkseid beating some comparable to freakin Eternity?

2. When has Darkseid destroyed an entire dimension (universe) with a blast?

3. When has Darkseid enslave a being who is capable of fighting Eternity?

4. When has Darkseid created a being compare to freakin Mephisto in terms of power out of nothing.

I dont see any substance to what you are saying, where are the feats that you were talking about?

and yes, i'm saying DS is and has been a bigger threat to people in dcu far more then dorm has in mu.

Then you are flat out wrong.

He's not even top 10 most powerful mu characters, where as DS has made that list in dcu.

So Darkseid is top 10 most power characters in DC universe, lets check few people who are more powerful than Darkseid:

1. HOG Ion

2. Spectre

3. Parallax

4. Rift

5. Montiou

6. Michael

7. Lucifer

8. Obvilion

9. Mxy

10. Bat Mite

11. Anti Monitor

12. Imperix

13. The 3 Millenium Giants

Thats just from the top of my head.

So yeah stop making stuffs up, Darkseid gets beatup by Doomsday, Orion , Firestorm and Superman and i am suppose to believe he is to 10 most powerful being in DC universe?

Concerning dorm being a powerful entity, you realize that means little against the omega effect right?

Oh really? He did very little against Imperix, Superman tanked it just fine, so did Doomsday, so did Mxy, so did Black Mary Marvel,so did Highfather, so did Orion, so yeah not really no.

DS has harmed spectre with it, yet he's an entity 100x more powerful then dorm is...

Harmed as in Spectre went "Err" then actually killed Darkseid? Heck Batman and Black Adam has done better. Harming Spectre isnt as hard, beating Spectre in a fight however is, and Darkseid has never done so.

For the record, yes i believe Spectre > Dormammu.

.the fact that some people think dormam is ig level then things fall apart proves that he's overrated if anything.

Yeah no argument there.

And your continuity point is kind of moot being as how, the current darkseid is new 52 in which he hasn't shown many crazy feats yet outside of defeating the jl and ko-ing superman. physically, yes they're comparable but DS has other powers that Superman really has little answers for and yes im a superman fan myself.

Where is the New 52 stuffs coming from, i showed you a scan from Pre New 52 post crisis, where it is said that Post Crisis Darkseid is in fact stronger than his Pre Crisis version. Makes sense because Pre Crisis version hardly has any feat, outside the Great Darkness Saga where he had the power of Darkness, Exaclibur, Legion's Orb, power of time Trapper, and power of Mordru.

What crazy feat as Darkseid done in pre-COIE continuity that takes place outside Great Darkness Saga?

They have kicked each others butts over time but overall ds is still considered more powerful then supes, that's not to say superman can't handle him though since he has.

This i agree, Darkseid is considered more powerful than Superman, but its not like Superman or Doomsday would have a shiver of an opportunity against Dormammu. His only weakness is banishment, something Darkseid is incapable of doing as he isnt a magic user. Dormammu can teleport just fine so i fail to see what Darkseid could do to him. Dormammu slagged a dimension with his blast, weaken eternity with a blast that shook the entire universe, Darkseid isnt tanking any of that.

Actually, that's how you seemed to interpret my post, not what I said though or meant. I never specified nor said that only spectre wasn't allowed to kill him, i was using that as an example due to the fact that spectre is far more powerful then darkseid yet the source didn't allow him to kill darkseid. point is who's to say the source wouldn't do the same thing to dorm if he tried ridding darkseid? you don't know....

Then you misuderstood my post, the whole point that Source resurrecting Darkseid was limited to Spectre and Spectre only. That is why i went on to even give examples of where Spectre is prohibited to even do mundane tasks. The downside of having so much power for Spectre is he has many limits to what he can do.

Darkseid has been killed just fine before and after that story and hence it should have absolutely no bearing on this thread.

#28 Posted by mrhatter (13 posts) - - Show Bio

datrkseid

#29 Posted by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

-->

#30 Posted by infonation (1665 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu, yes I'm biased because I'm more of a MARVEL fan, but Dormammu is pure energy AND intelligent, so Darkseid might just be outmatched here.

#31 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall lol, Rift and Monti? really? sorry but coie am is above them if you're using hardly used character and what about geb?Darkseid at full power with the ale is a threat. oh and sm prime 1 million is also on that list. The gds ds was stll uber power and, yes it does make a difference. Dorm being weaker means he's weaker and thus limited outside of his realm,ds however isn't effected despite where he is...if he was that powerful he'd be a threat to LT, thanos with ig beings of that nature, last time i checked i'm pretty sure eternity is under both those guys.

Uh you're aware ds has killed skyfathers right? other gods etc himself since you're mentioning gods etc, he's also a god himself. And again, there's nothing to say if dorm did manage to kill ds the source would just prevent it like it did with spectre...

Spectre isn't easily harmed, actually 'tagging him" and defeating him are 2 entirely different things, but at least you admitted he'd murk dormammu. Let's be real, batman or black adam would die fast if spectre took either remotely seriously...

Mephisto? Another character that's nothing outside of his realm...DS created avys of himself, can transport others, create dimensions, soul control via the omega effect. DS in case you're unaware with the ALE can control anyone just about...and are forced to obey him.

Uhh you realize ds's beam cracked imperiex's armor right and that imperix literally vaped dd to bones?kind of skipped over that part there...so to say ds had no effect would be wrong.

Wrong, you obviously failed to read the ds vs dd comic, as that was an avatar of darkseid, not darkseid himself...so no, not making anything up guy. Clearly there's a quite a bit about ds you don't seem to know..

Where are the feats you're talking about?The feats you posted at the op weren't that impressive...freezing the hulk? dealing with the avengers? ds has and can vaporize, transport, takeover people with a mere omega beam....he's done worse then froze avengers to the league daily...and did you not see what he did to batman sending him to the stone age after initially thought to have killed him? I'm on an app right now so i can't copy and paste feats, but i assure you tomorrow if you wish i'll gladly post tons of DS feats for you and that amount is far greater then dorm's short list in comparison. DS overall has caused far more trouble in dcu as oppose to dorm in marvel.

Umm you're wrong if you think ds can't banish people elsewhere, did you read what he did to batman? stone age much? alternate dimensions..i can tell you don't read much darkseid stories if you think he can't banish others.again omega effect....

I understood your post just fine,again you assumed i meant something else and misunderstood what i said, i never said ds generally can't die, that's why i posted that scan because it proves that a much more powerful entity killed darkseid and he came back. Besides, when ds died he just cameback anyway. It's not like he ever stays dead.

I posted that new 52 point because it's true, you posted a pc darkseid vs. pre-52darkseid....and said "current" that is not current, dc rebooted dcu in 2008, 09 that scan is from before that. the op clearly specified pre crisis darkseid,not currently before the new 52...

Lastly, depends which version of Superman vs. dorm,it's not like he's never went up against entities before. SA version, prime or 1 million or all star would thrash dormammu. Especially prime 1 million practically being god or sa where he had a new power every story practically...but the mainstream superman i agree would have trouble. hp/dd well, he came back from imperiex so i'm not so sure on that one...you can't really kill dd for good given his abilities. Even if it takes a while in some cases..

As for Spectre, he's another character that has been rather inconsistent with power showing over the years depending on not just the writer but the host varies in power, then there's the how much god/presence allows him to do as well. Example, obviously presense approved of the source preventing spectre from killing ds or presence would have allowed it...wrath of god afterall...spirit of vengence.

Clearly, you and i dont agree so it's probably best to just agree to disagree.

#32 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vaeternus said:

@Killemall lol, Rift and Monti? really? sorry but coie am is above them if you're using hardly used character and what about geb?

So what does it matter, your point was Darkseid is on 10 most most powerful being on DC universe, while Dormammu isnt. I gave you example of being above Darkseid, just on the top of my head. Of course GEB is above them.

You are talking as if normally used characters in marvel are above Dormammu? Love to see you take 10 being normally used in Marvel who have gone up against Eternity on their own accord and done well? Please, lets see.

?Darkseid at full power with the ale is a threat.

Anti Life Equation has nothing to do with Darkseid's power, its just something he solved at end of Final Crisis. Its not his native powers, its like me trying to assign Mephisto with stuffs like stick of polar powers, you know the device that was used to go up against LT?

oh and sm prime 1 million is also on that list.

He has done didly squat.

The gds ds was stll uber power and, yes it does make a difference.

No it doesnt make a difference. Either prove , somehow that the power he absorbed during GDS , which includes:

1. The power of Darkness

2. Excalibur

3. Legion's Orb

4. Power of Mordru

5. Power of Time Trapper

Were Darkseid own powers (it clearly isnt his powers) and even then you cant come up with a feat of being powerful enough to beat Eternity and create an entire freakin universe that Dormammu did.

So where are the feats you are claiming to have?

Dorm being weaker means he's weaker and thus limited outside of his realm,ds however isn't effected despite where he is...

Again what does it matter, all the feats mentioned above are things Dormammu has done outside Dark Dimension. Dormammu in Dark Dimension is close to being unbeatable, even outside Dark Dimension drawfs Darkseid in power level.

.if he was that powerful he'd be a threat to LT, thanos with ig beings of that nature, last time i checked i'm pretty sure eternity is under both those guys.

Are you high, are you seriously using his inferiority against Living Tribunal and Eternity to suggest Darkseid is superior to Dormammu. Darkseid doesnt even have enough power to scratch Eternity toes or even harm LT, dude that a strawman's argument.

Uh you're aware ds has killed skyfathers right? other gods etc himself since you're mentioning gods etc, he's also a god himself.

Darkseid has never killed a skyfather, stop making stuffs up.

Being a god means nothing. Hercules and Thor are gods as well so freakin what?

. And again, there's nothing to say if dorm did manage to kill ds the source would just prevent it like it did with spectre...

Apart from empty deluded fanboyism there is nothing to suggest Darkseid cant be killed, and has been killed twice. Even in the instance you mention it was said Spectre was not allowed to kill Darkseid, and last i checked Spectre and Dormammu are 2 freaking different beings, or maybe you can prove they are the same?

Spectre isn't easily harmed, actually 'tagging him" and defeating him are 2 entirely different things, but at least you admitted he'd murk dormammu.

Firstly Spectre can at times be harmed by sufficient force, and by harm as in harmed enough to show some reaction. Thats about it.

And of course Spectre would beat Dormammu, he is more powerful, but that is not even remotely relevant because the power level of Spectre are not even remotely comparable to Darkseid.

. Let's be real, batman or black adam would die fast if spectre took either remotely seriously...

Oh but Darkseid wouldnt? As i recall Darkseid was in fact killed with but one shot from Spectre, how much faster then that can it possible get?

The point was to Spectre, without PIS, neither DArkseid nor anyone else here are consequential.

Mephisto? Another character that's nothing outside of his realm...

I suppose being able to destroy planets, and one shot silver surfer , create countless demons, outside his dimension counts as nothing i suppose?

DS created avys of himself, can transport others, create dimensions, soul control via the omega effect.

1. Scan of Darkseid creating Dimension please?

2. Scans of Darkseid controlling someone soul please? Also Dormammu doenst even have soul not sure how that is relevant.

DS in case you're unaware with the ALE can control anyone just about...and are forced to obey him.

Just like he forced Batman to obey him before he shot him, or Superman to obey him before he killed him right? Oh yes thank you.

Not to mention Pre Crisis Darkseid doesnt have ALE, so try again please.

Uhh you realize ds's beam cracked imperiex's armor right and that imperix literally vaped dd to bones?kind of skipped over that part there...so to say ds had no effect would be wrong.

Imperix Armor was only cracked after a combined attack from DS + an amped up Superman + Kismet, given a sundipped Superman > Darkseid and Kismet > Darkseid i fail to see how that shows Darkseid can do anything.

Not to mention I brought that feat because you claim power level in inconsequential, and had it been so why did Darkseid go all the way to earth to ask Superman's help, for giggles?

Wrong, you obviously failed to read the ds vs dd comic, as that was an avatar of darkseid, not darkseid himself...so no, not making anything up guy. Clearly there's a quite a bit about ds you don't seem to know..

Deluded fan assumption and nothing else. I have read, and i still own Superman/ Doomsday Hunter Prey, you know what, show me 1 scan where it says it was an avatar of Darkseid. Just one instance please? Coz i dont know so much about Darkseid so you could surely show me a scan cant you ?

Where are the feats you're talking about?The feats you posted at the op weren't that impressive...freezing the hulk? dealing with the avengers?

So him fighting Eternity, the freakin embodiment of marvel multiverse (at least that was so in classic days, now a days it goes back and forth to being universe or multiverse) was just worth ignoring, or him imprisioning Zom, the person who nearly destroyed entire marvel multiverse was worth ignoring as well, well done.

ds has and can vaporize, transport, takeover people with a mere omega beam....he's done worse then froze avengers to the league daily..

DS omega beams are registed by being of sufficient durability. So prove Darkseid can do any major damange to someone as powerful as Dormammu and we will talk, else its just your own fanfiction to make DS look better.

and did you not see what he did to batman sending him to the stone age after initially thought to have killed him?

Yes because BFRing Batman through time is so much more impressive than outright stopping time, or fighting a being with multiversal power? I mean come on.

I'm on an app right now so i can't copy and paste feats, but i assure you tomorrow if you wish i'll gladly post tons of DS feats for you and that amount is far greater then dorm's short list in comparison. DS overall has caused far more trouble in dcu as oppose to dorm in marvel.

Be my guest, would love for you to show me a feat from Darkseid comparable to Dormammu fighting Eternity, Zom and creating his own universe or destroying an entire dimension :)

Be my guest.

Umm you're wrong if you think ds can't banish people elsewhere, did you read what he did to batman? stone age much? alternate dimensions..i can tell you don't read much darkseid stories if you think he can't banish others.again omega effect....

There is a huge difference between banishing and BFRing someone. Whats the point of teleporting Dormammu anything as he can teleport across space as well as time, in fact he lives outside space and time.

Banishment is a bit different, a magical spell which seal your entry back for a certain time, Darkseid doesnt use magic, ergo he can prevent Dormammu from coming back.

I understood your post just fine,again you assumed i meant something else and misunderstood what i said, i never said ds generally can't die, that's why i posted that scan because it proves that a much more powerful entity killed darkseid and he came back. Besides, when ds died he just cameback anyway. It's not like he ever stays dead.

Either you did not understand my point or you are intentionally being blind to reason. Where was source when Superman killed Darkseid?

Just because Spectre cant kill him, doesnt mean jack, because Spectre has weird limitations on him.

Ignore all you want, it just wont go away.

I posted that new 52 point because it's true, you posted a pc darkseid vs. pre-52darkseid....and said "current" that is not current, dc rebooted dcu in 2008, 09 that scan is from before that. the op clearly specified pre crisis darkseid,not currently before the new 52...

Did you even read my post. The point was PC Darkseid < Pre New 52 Darkseid, as in not much more than a Superman level being with Omega effect, contrary to what you are claiming.

Lastly, depends which version of Superman vs. dorm,it's not like he's never went up against entities before. SA version, prime or 1 million or all star would thrash dormammu. Especially prime 1 million practically being god or sa where he had a new power every story practically...but the mainstream superman i agree would have trouble. hp/dd well, he came back from imperiex so i'm not so sure on that one...you can't really kill dd for good given his abilities. Even if it takes a while in some cases..

1. SA Superman would get slaughtered by Dormammu, why weakness to magic.

2. PRime 1 million has done nothing to suggest he is anywhere as powreful as people wank him to be so no, unless you can come up with feats, and i know you cant.

3. Hunter Prey doomsday came back from Imperix? What have you been reading. DD died and the death was premanent, Luthor cloned a new Doomsday. Doomsday has premanent died before as well during Hunter Prey, and he was back because Braniac went back in time and saved him before his death.

So you can kill DD just fine.

As for Spectre, he's another character that has been rather inconsistent with power showing over the years depending on not just the writer but the host varies in power, then there's the how much god/presence allows him to do as well. Example, obviously presense approved of the source preventing spectre from killing ds or presence would have allowed it...wrath of god afterall...spirit of vengence.

How is this of any consequence to our debate?

Clearly, you and i dont agree so it's probably best to just agree to disagree.

Give me one good reason to agree? You are using an amped up Darkseid as opposed to normal pre-crisis Darkseid yet you fail to come up with a feat that drawfs Dormammu beating and stealing Eternity's power and creating an entire freakin universe in his own image, or can you come up with a better destructive feat than destroying an entire dimension, so why should i agree.

I have read quite well on Darkseid and Dormammu and no i see no reason to agree with you because you actually have made no point.

#33 Posted by MrBossAwesomeDude (238 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu. No need to debate. :P

#34 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall, wrong. For one i've made several points you're just choosing to ignore the, yeah right...so sure you've read ds stories that's whyyou're not familiar with half of his feats...It was a general statement...point is there are stories of DS who can easily make a top 10 to top 15 list in dcu.

Dorm? I rarely if ever hear of people talking about him in MU as this 'huge powerhouse" that you're making him out to be..

Wrong, smp 1 million recreated lois lane, had all the knowledge of the universe, had no weaknesses and was more or less godlike. Plus, when you're that powerful you don't need a million feats. He's just that powerful, period.

The ALE if you read up on it, while doesn't boost DS's powers clearly gives him more control over certain people and they can't fight it.

I never said ds would beat eternity, clearly you misread something i said again...I said dorm isn't as powerful as you're making him out to be this "marvel mutil universal giant" so no strawman argument, how you got that from me just pointing out dorm's power level boggles my mind. Yet you're asking me if i'm high? Very amusing but comments like that do you no credit.

Actually, yes and i'll gladly provide you with scans of what i speak of tomorrow but clearly you don't know much about ds's powers if you're seriously questioning things that are common sense...like ds controling a person's soul, transporting people to other dimensions etc. Clearly you don't know what he's capable of...

There is no deluded fanboyism, if anything you're ignoring the facts of previous ds's feats such as him killing other new gods, sky fathers etc again tomorrow i will provide them for you once i have access to my pc assumng someone doesn't beat me to it first...

Again, ds's beams have hurt people of various power levels superman being one of them at times, yet others just pushing him back. I'd also like to point out that, it doesn't matter if superman was also fighting imperiex, hiis beams still contributed to cracking his armor. period, i love how you're trying to downplay the damage his beams can do..again, tomorrow i'll gladly provide you with proof showing ds's beams hurting spectre, yet even you admited he's far more powerful then dorm...who guess what is another entity...but lesser then spectre.

oh yes the classic luthor helped bring back dd argument, yes we know but my point is they just set dd up, his abilities still had to do the rest.

Ok, getting a little tiresome of you demanding scans from me yet you've failed to provide one scan this entire time backing your claims of "dimension this, universal threat that" really? ok, then prove it...let's see something otherwise for all i know you can be making this up. Yes, my point is banshing or teleporting someone elsewhere, ds has the means for both as well as worse depending on what he does via the omega effect.

uh yeah....dorm beating superman p 1 million and sa superman? no...both surpass dorm easily One became god practically,the other just had an answer for everything despite magic which btw didnt always work on him, how about the fact that sa supes controlled time, space barriers?froze time, travelled to krypton via time travel, flew so fast spectre had to stop him...going after supergirl. clearly you dont know much about sa superman's crazy feats, he sneezed an entire galaxy away while dealing with mxy...he also had a new power for whatever the situation required. The guy pulled planets like they were basketballs....

Supes prime again, recreating lois from her dna, gaining all knowlegde of the universe, having no weaknesses, creating his own universe yeah..hows that for feats so again, you're wrong. if you wish i'll post scans for that too. I'm sure doomsday dorm can deal with or banish somewhere if he can't kill him. sigh...where was the source when superman killed ds? I dont know, ask the writer...and we'll both know. Since you know,writers have nothing to do with "character pis, cis or inconsistencies"nahhh.....lol but i do find that funny how a marvel fanboy is mentioning "PIS" elements concerning spectre...

Again, you posted a pre 52 scan s. pre crisis oldschool ds...the claimed it was current, that is NOT current, current is new 52.dodge it all you wish though...i've already proved my point and stated my case. Not repeating it again. DS is far more then just a superma with omega beams, my point but clearly you won't accept this or think otherwise so i'm not going to go nuts over it.

Uhh, lol stoping time a big deal to you huh? ok, guess what Zoom can stop time too...is he a universal threat? lol....btw, mu may say "mutiuniversal" but being as how that's debatable and/or most likely limited or irrelevant with dcu i'd say that's just a "rank" in marvel terms...until you supply proof of eternity effecting DCU, that point is moot and irrelevant.

Spectre's powers are limited by the presence and by the host, how is that weird? sounds cut and dry to me...

Perhaps you don't know that oh i dont know, batman and supes have among the strongest wills in dcu when it comes to evil maybe? and im pretty sure i stated that DS and ale would only work on SOME people...and why are you stating the obvious? you're saying sundipped supes >>>darkseid, duh...then you'll admit that superman prime1 million sundipped for hundreds and hundreds of years and thus why he was godlike....

lol you must have selective reading or something, for one the batman banshing him to another dimension then batman showing up once ds died was just one of many feats i picked concerning dimensional feats. Secondly, when the hell did i ever say Spectre can kill ba or batman but not darkseid? Oh wait i never said that..in fact my first scans proved the polar opposite that spectre murks ds but due to the source, it didnt allow it to happen..thought we went through this already...

Oh yes because defeating silver surfer is such a "great feat" im so sure ds cant do that at all..or hasnt taken on people and beaten people who surpass surfer....creating demons or minions? uhh,ds has an army of flying demons from apokalips....destroying a planet? another thing i'm so sure darkseid can't POSSIBLY DO....right.

Perhaps you misunderstood me again, i never asked you to agree with me because god knows that ain't happening but rather agree to disagree...in otherwords, you respect how i feel and i'll respect how you feel and just move on.

#35 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vaeternus said:

@killemall, wrong. For one i've made several points you're just choosing to ignore the, yeah right...so sure you've read ds stories that's whyyou're not familiar with half of his feats...It was a general statement...point is there are stories of DS who can easily make a top 10 to top 15 list in dcu.

So point me to the argument you have made apart from saying DS is among top 10 when he has done absolutely nothing to deserve such spot or saying Dormammu is weaker outside his realm when the fight with Eternity that nearly destroyed the universe takes place outside his realm.

Secondly you can claim all you want, where are the feats to back up your claim. The closest to what you are claiming, Darkseid has gotten is in 2 story arc, both of whom he was mega amped:

1. The Great Darkness Saga

2. Death of New God / Final Crisis.

Thats about the two story arc you are talking about, neither of which is normal showing for Darkseid. If you agree bring some feats.

Dorm? I rarely if ever hear of people talking about him in MU as this 'huge powerhouse" that you're making him out to be..

How many story arc have you read with Dormammu in it. Everytime Dormammu is in a story arc, he is mentioned as a universal + threat, sometimes multiversal. Dormammu however isnt a part of 616 universe, and resides in an extra dimension outside 616 and hence isnt normally part of huge marvel crossovers if thats what you are referring to.

Wrong, smp 1 million recreated lois lane, had all the knowledge of the universe, had no weaknesses and was more or less godlike. Plus, when you're that powerful you don't need a million feats. He's just that powerful, period.

Way to take a feat out of context. SMP 1 million did not create Lois Lane on his own.

Read that and tell me you did not notice THEY turned it inside out until it became a woman? There are 2 freakin 5 dimensional being.

Secondly thats just cop out. He has done didly squat to warrent the kind of claim you are making.

The ALE if you read up on it, while doesn't boost DS's powers clearly gives him more control over certain people and they can't fight it.

What has this got to do with anything. I know what ALE is, its a prefect mind control via speech, more or less. Starlin went on and made it a bit more exotic so you see stars and stuffs, ALE while weilded by Orion and Mr. Miracle seemed a lot more powerful than what Darkseid did.

The point however was ALE is not DS own power.

Furthemore, Death of New Gods all we see is Darkseid complete the ALE partially, and during Final Crisis Darkseid himself never actually weilds ALE at all, but rather it is televised through computer screens and via his minions.

I never said ds would beat eternity, clearly you misread something i said again...I said dorm isn't as powerful as you're making him out to be this "marvel mutil universal giant" so no strawman argument, how you got that from me just pointing out dorm's power level boggles my mind. Yet you're asking me if i'm high? Very amusing but comments like that do you no credit.

So you are going to discredit a clear given feat?

Strange Tales 147

Defenders vol 3, 03

And you were in fact pulling a straw man argument because i said Dormammu has fought and done well against eternity and in reply you say this:

.if he was that powerful he'd be a threat to LT, thanos with ig beings of that nature, last time i checked i'm pretty sure eternity is under both those guys.

Thats what i am asking how do you reach from being a threat to Eternity to being a threat to a guy to whom eternity is nothing, who has literally held two eternity on palm of each hand, or someone who dispatched eternity with a flick of his hand?

How exactly isnt that a strawman's argument?

Actually, yes and i'll gladly provide you with scans of what i speak of tomorrow but clearly you don't know much about ds's powers if you're seriously questioning things that are common sense...like ds controling a person's soul, transporting people to other dimensions etc. Clearly you don't know what he's capable of...

The bolded part, thats the only feat i was questioning, along side another claim you made which was : create dimensions

Love to see Darkseid creating a dimension on his own accord.

There is no deluded fanboyism, if anything you're ignoring the facts of previous ds's feats such as him killing other new gods, sky fathers etc again tomorrow i will provide them for you once i have access to my pc assumng someone doesn't beat me to it first...

I am not ignoring anything, you have not mentioned one single feat that puts him on part with fighiting and doing well against Eternity. Killing other new gods, you gotta be freakin kidding me mate, those are more or less superman level being.

Again, ds's beams have hurt people of various power levels superman being one of them at times, yet others just pushing him back. I'd also like to point out that, it doesn't matter if superman was also fighting imperiex, hiis beams still contributed to cracking his armor. period, i love how you're trying to downplay the damage his beams can do..again, tomorrow i'll gladly provide you with proof showing ds's beams hurting spectre, yet even you admited he's far more powerful then dorm...who guess what is another entity...but lesser then spectre.

Would love to see those as well. I can also provide 6 other instances where Superman level being have absolutely no problem tanking OB.

I know of this instance, i even addressed this instance, now you are just blindly ignoring what i have said. All Darkseid manage to do was get Spectre say "Arrg" and got killed the very next instance. Both Batman and Black Adam has done the same.

So that feat while exist, isnt remotely as impressive as you would like, specially given so many characters have willy nilly tanked your OB.

oh yes the classic luthor helped bring back dd argument, yes we know but my point is they just set dd up, his abilities still had to do the rest.

What do you mean classic Luthor helped, Luthor did not only help he created a new Doomsday, a completely new being, who was later trained by Darkseid. That is not the only time Doomsday has been permanently killed, that would included Superman/ Doomsday Hunter Prey as well.

Keep up.

Ok, getting a little tiresome of you demanding scans from me yet you've failed to provide one scan this entire time backing your claims of "dimension this, universal threat that" really? ok, then prove it...let's see something otherwise for all i know you can be making this up. Yes, my point is banshing or teleporting someone elsewhere, ds has the means for both as well as worse depending on what he does via the omega effect.

The scan are right there in this post, enjoy.

Secondly banishing and teleporting are two different things. Dormammu can teleport just fine so teleporting him somewhere isnt going to stop Dormammu, had he had means like Dr. Strange or Damien Hellstorm, where the spell can actually prevent him from teleporting its a different story.

But i guess you were not reading my argument, i have said this twice now.

Supes prime again, recreating lois from her dna, gaining all knowlegde of the universe, having no weaknesses, creating his own universe yeah..hows that for feats so again, you're wrong. if you wish i'll post scans for that too. I'm sure doomsday dorm can deal with or banish somewhere if he can't kill him. sigh...where was the source when superman killed ds? I dont know, ask the writer...and we'll both know. Since you know,writers have nothing to do with "character pis, cis or inconsistencies"nahhh.....lol but i do find that funny how a marvel fanboy is mentioning "PIS" elements concerning spectre...

1. Recreating Lois already explained.

2. All knoweledge of the unvierse? so what?

3. Has no weakness? thats why people were scared he was going to die by the hunk of kryptonite sent flying into the super sun, lucky for him it turned out to be Green Lantern ring.

4. Creating his own universe? LOL. Love to see a scan that shows him creating the universe, and no just because he says "My universe" doesnt mean he created one. Thanos has said my universe to 616 reality as well, i guess he created it then?

5. How's that for feat? well non existence is how it is :)

And no i have read Dc 1,000,000 story arc, you dont have to post scan just to put in correct arguments.

And there is no inconsistency, if anything Source preventing Darkseid from being killed that was the only inconsistency. None of the new gods have actually been shown to resurrect just because someone killed them, hang on to that mis-represented instance all you want, its just mis-represented as the limitation was place only on Spectre.

.i've already proved my point and stated my case. Not repeating it again. DS is far more then just a superma with omega beams, my point but clearly you won't accept this or think otherwise so i'm not going to go nuts over it.

No you havent. Most often than not Superman and Darkseid are portrayed as equal in power so thats how it is. Misrespresent or wank DS all you want, doesnt change the fact.

In fact here are some instances:

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

Uhh, lol stoping time a big deal to you huh? ok, guess what Zoom can stop time too...is he a universal threat? lol....btw, mu may say "mutiuniversal" but being as how that's debatable and/or most likely limited or irrelevant with dcu i'd say that's just a "rank" in marvel terms...until you supply proof of eternity effecting DCU, that point is moot and irrelevant.

Zoom cannot stop time but slow times around, it was illuded that during Flash Point Prof Zoom however obtained ability to stop time. Again, Dormammu's power level is based on his fight with Eternity, not because he can stop time, thats just a bonus to a fight.

Proof of Eternity affecting DCU, what rubbish is that? Eternity is a marvel character how on earth would it affect DC? What are you smoking really?

Perhaps you don't know that oh i dont know, batman and supes have among the strongest wills in dcu when it comes to evil maybe? and im pretty sure i stated that DS and ale would only work on SOME people...and why are you stating the obvious? you're saying sundipped supes >>>darkseid, duh...then you'll admit that superman prime1 million sundipped for hundreds and hundreds of years and thus why he was godlike....

I am not denying Superman Prime 1, 000,000 is powerful, i am however denying just because he was sundipped for 15,000 years doesnt automatically make him above universal threat without feats to back it up. He doesnt, as simple as that.

Oh yes because defeating silver surfer is such a "great feat" im so sure ds cant do that at all..or hasnt taken on people and beaten people who surpass surfer....creating demons or minions? uhh,ds has an army of flying demons from apokalips....destroying a planet? another thing i'm so sure darkseid can't POSSIBLY DO....right.

I did not say beat Silver Surfer, i said one shotted Silver Surfer. How many examples can you show from Darkseid doing that?

Then prove the bolded part, show us a scan of Darkseid busting a planet? Should be so hard now should it?

Perhaps you misunderstood me again, i never asked you to agree with me because god knows that ain't happening but rather agree to disagree...in otherwords, you respect how i feel and i'll respect how you feel and just move on.

I have no problem respecting your opinion i have problem with people saying as if i am not reading your argument, or making things up. The scans are there, now what?

#36 Posted by Jedisupermaster (1390 posts) - - Show Bio

PC Darkseid isnt even on a Skyfather level. He gets slaughtered. In fact, Dormammu can kill a lot of PC Darkseid's in matter of seconds. :D

#37 Posted by LubeMan (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

Consensus......Dormammu ftw!!

#38 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: if you dont mind, can you tell me who montiou and The 3 Millenium Giants are?

#39 Posted by Alyssabird (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, Darkseid should win.

#40 Posted by Setherial (212 posts) - - Show Bio

Dorm.

#41 Posted by Alyssabird (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

@Setherial said:

Dorm.

wrong

#42 Posted by Setherial (212 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alyssabird said:

@Setherial said:

Dorm.

Right

Yep.

#43 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anyone here ever moved their hands over fire or punched at fire?

That is how Superman is going to look like fighting against Dormammu. All his attacks are going to "miss"... Nothing but air/fire.

#44 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@Killemall: if you dont mind, can you tell me who montiou and The 3 Millenium Giants are?

Millenium Giants are more like Dc version of Celestial, they same to DC earth in the story arc called Millenium Giants.

Montiou is an magical entity of untold power. During JLA: Obsidian Age, he appeared, resurrected the Dead Kyle, increased the size of wonder woman's lasso, made Kyle big enough to he could hold the planet on his palm, and beat and magican who dislocated the earth from its orbit.

#45 Posted by Alyssabird (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@Killemall: if you dont mind, can you tell me who montiou and The 3 Millenium Giants are?

Millenium Giants are more like Dc version of Celestial, they same to DC earth in the story arc called Millenium Giants.

Montiou is an magical entity of untold power. During JLA: Obsidian Age, he appeared, resurrected the Dead Kyle, increased the size of wonder woman's lasso, made Kyle big enough to he could hold the planet on his palm, and beat and magican who dislocated the earth from its orbit.

You're merely speculating.

#46 Posted by logy5000 (6074 posts) - - Show Bio

Bleh.

#47 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alyssabird said:

You're merely speculating.

No idea what you have been smoking really, he asked whose those people are i said who they were, how is that speculation?

#48 Posted by Nightflash (713 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: I'm no expert on pre crisis but didnt Darkseid defeat Mordru?

#49 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

#50 Posted by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Vaeternus said:

@killemall, wrong. For one i've made several points you're just choosing to ignore the, yeah right...so sure you've read ds stories that's whyyou're not familiar with half of his feats...It was a general statement...point is there are stories of DS who can easily make a top 10 to top 15 list in dcu.

So point me to the argument you have made apart from saying DS is among top 10 when he has done absolutely nothing to deserve such spot or saying Dormammu is weaker outside his realm when the fight with Eternity that nearly destroyed the universe takes place outside his realm.

Secondly you can claim all you want, where are the feats to back up your claim. The closest to what you are claiming, Darkseid has gotten is in 2 story arc, both of whom he was mega amped:

1. The Great Darkness Saga

2. Death of New God / Final Crisis.

Thats about the two story arc you are talking about, neither of which is normal showing for Darkseid. If you agree bring some feats.

Dorm? I rarely if ever hear of people talking about him in MU as this 'huge powerhouse" that you're making him out to be..

How many story arc have you read with Dormammu in it. Everytime Dormammu is in a story arc, he is mentioned as a universal + threat, sometimes multiversal. Dormammu however isnt a part of 616 universe, and resides in an extra dimension outside 616 and hence isnt normally part of huge marvel crossovers if thats what you are referring to.

Wrong, smp 1 million recreated lois lane, had all the knowledge of the universe, had no weaknesses and was more or less godlike. Plus, when you're that powerful you don't need a million feats. He's just that powerful, period.

Way to take a feat out of context. SMP 1 million did not create Lois Lane on his own.

Read that and tell me you did not notice THEY turned it inside out until it became a woman? There are 2 freakin 5 dimensional being.

Secondly thats just cop out. He has done didly squat to warrent the kind of claim you are making.

The ALE if you read up on it, while doesn't boost DS's powers clearly gives him more control over certain people and they can't fight it.

What has this got to do with anything. I know what ALE is, its a prefect mind control via speech, more or less. Starlin went on and made it a bit more exotic so you see stars and stuffs, ALE while weilded by Orion and Mr. Miracle seemed a lot more powerful than what Darkseid did.

The point however was ALE is not DS own power.

Furthemore, Death of New Gods all we see is Darkseid complete the ALE partially, and during Final Crisis Darkseid himself never actually weilds ALE at all, but rather it is televised through computer screens and via his minions.

I never said ds would beat eternity, clearly you misread something i said again...I said dorm isn't as powerful as you're making him out to be this "marvel mutil universal giant" so no strawman argument, how you got that from me just pointing out dorm's power level boggles my mind. Yet you're asking me if i'm high? Very amusing but comments like that do you no credit.

So you are going to discredit a clear given feat?

Strange Tales 147

Defenders vol 3, 03

And you were in fact pulling a straw man argument because i said Dormammu has fought and done well against eternity and in reply you say this:

.if he was that powerful he'd be a threat to LT, thanos with ig beings of that nature, last time i checked i'm pretty sure eternity is under both those guys.

Thats what i am asking how do you reach from being a threat to Eternity to being a threat to a guy to whom eternity is nothing, who has literally held two eternity on palm of each hand, or someone who dispatched eternity with a flick of his hand?

How exactly isnt that a strawman's argument?

Actually, yes and i'll gladly provide you with scans of what i speak of tomorrow but clearly you don't know much about ds's powers if you're seriously questioning things that are common sense...like ds controling a person's soul, transporting people to other dimensions etc. Clearly you don't know what he's capable of...

The bolded part, thats the only feat i was questioning, along side another claim you made which was : create dimensions

Love to see Darkseid creating a dimension on his own accord.

There is no deluded fanboyism, if anything you're ignoring the facts of previous ds's feats such as him killing other new gods, sky fathers etc again tomorrow i will provide them for you once i have access to my pc assumng someone doesn't beat me to it first...

I am not ignoring anything, you have not mentioned one single feat that puts him on part with fighiting and doing well against Eternity. Killing other new gods, you gotta be freakin kidding me mate, those are more or less superman level being.

Again, ds's beams have hurt people of various power levels superman being one of them at times, yet others just pushing him back. I'd also like to point out that, it doesn't matter if superman was also fighting imperiex, hiis beams still contributed to cracking his armor. period, i love how you're trying to downplay the damage his beams can do..again, tomorrow i'll gladly provide you with proof showing ds's beams hurting spectre, yet even you admited he's far more powerful then dorm...who guess what is another entity...but lesser then spectre.

Would love to see those as well. I can also provide 6 other instances where Superman level being have absolutely no problem tanking OB.

I know of this instance, i even addressed this instance, now you are just blindly ignoring what i have said. All Darkseid manage to do was get Spectre say "Arrg" and got killed the very next instance. Both Batman and Black Adam has done the same.

So that feat while exist, isnt remotely as impressive as you would like, specially given so many characters have willy nilly tanked your OB.

oh yes the classic luthor helped bring back dd argument, yes we know but my point is they just set dd up, his abilities still had to do the rest.

What do you mean classic Luthor helped, Luthor did not only help he created a new Doomsday, a completely new being, who was later trained by Darkseid. That is not the only time Doomsday has been permanently killed, that would included Superman/ Doomsday Hunter Prey as well.

Keep up.

Ok, getting a little tiresome of you demanding scans from me yet you've failed to provide one scan this entire time backing your claims of "dimension this, universal threat that" really? ok, then prove it...let's see something otherwise for all i know you can be making this up. Yes, my point is banshing or teleporting someone elsewhere, ds has the means for both as well as worse depending on what he does via the omega effect.

The scan are right there in this post, enjoy.

Secondly banishing and teleporting are two different things. Dormammu can teleport just fine so teleporting him somewhere isnt going to stop Dormammu, had he had means like Dr. Strange or Damien Hellstorm, where the spell can actually prevent him from teleporting its a different story.

But i guess you were not reading my argument, i have said this twice now.

Supes prime again, recreating lois from her dna, gaining all knowlegde of the universe, having no weaknesses, creating his own universe yeah..hows that for feats so again, you're wrong. if you wish i'll post scans for that too. I'm sure doomsday dorm can deal with or banish somewhere if he can't kill him. sigh...where was the source when superman killed ds? I dont know, ask the writer...and we'll both know. Since you know,writers have nothing to do with "character pis, cis or inconsistencies"nahhh.....lol but i do find that funny how a marvel fanboy is mentioning "PIS" elements concerning spectre...

1. Recreating Lois already explained.

2. All knoweledge of the unvierse? so what?

3. Has no weakness? thats why people were scared he was going to die by the hunk of kryptonite sent flying into the super sun, lucky for him it turned out to be Green Lantern ring.

4. Creating his own universe? LOL. Love to see a scan that shows him creating the universe, and no just because he says "My universe" doesnt mean he created one. Thanos has said my universe to 616 reality as well, i guess he created it then?

5. How's that for feat? well non existence is how it is :)

And no i have read Dc 1,000,000 story arc, you dont have to post scan just to put in correct arguments.

And there is no inconsistency, if anything Source preventing Darkseid from being killed that was the only inconsistency. None of the new gods have actually been shown to resurrect just because someone killed them, hang on to that mis-represented instance all you want, its just mis-represented as the limitation was place only on Spectre.

.i've already proved my point and stated my case. Not repeating it again. DS is far more then just a superma with omega beams, my point but clearly you won't accept this or think otherwise so i'm not going to go nuts over it.

No you havent. Most often than not Superman and Darkseid are portrayed as equal in power so thats how it is. Misrespresent or wank DS all you want, doesnt change the fact.

In fact here are some instances:

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

Uhh, lol stoping time a big deal to you huh? ok, guess what Zoom can stop time too...is he a universal threat? lol....btw, mu may say "mutiuniversal" but being as how that's debatable and/or most likely limited or irrelevant with dcu i'd say that's just a "rank" in marvel terms...until you supply proof of eternity effecting DCU, that point is moot and irrelevant.

Zoom cannot stop time but slow times around, it was illuded that during Flash Point Prof Zoom however obtained ability to stop time. Again, Dormammu's power level is based on his fight with Eternity, not because he can stop time, thats just a bonus to a fight.

Proof of Eternity affecting DCU, what rubbish is that? Eternity is a marvel character how on earth would it affect DC? What are you smoking really?

Perhaps you don't know that oh i dont know, batman and supes have among the strongest wills in dcu when it comes to evil maybe? and im pretty sure i stated that DS and ale would only work on SOME people...and why are you stating the obvious? you're saying sundipped supes >>>darkseid, duh...then you'll admit that superman prime1 million sundipped for hundreds and hundreds of years and thus why he was godlike....

I am not denying Superman Prime 1, 000,000 is powerful, i am however denying just because he was sundipped for 15,000 years doesnt automatically make him above universal threat without feats to back it up. He doesnt, as simple as that.

Oh yes because defeating silver surfer is such a "great feat" im so sure ds cant do that at all..or hasnt taken on people and beaten people who surpass surfer....creating demons or minions? uhh,ds has an army of flying demons from apokalips....destroying a planet? another thing i'm so sure darkseid can't POSSIBLY DO....right.

I did not say beat Silver Surfer, i said one shotted Silver Surfer. How many examples can you show from Darkseid doing that?

Then prove the bolded part, show us a scan of Darkseid busting a planet? Should be so hard now should it?

Perhaps you misunderstood me again, i never asked you to agree with me because god knows that ain't happening but rather agree to disagree...in otherwords, you respect how i feel and i'll respect how you feel and just move on.

I have no problem respecting your opinion i have problem with people saying as if i am not reading your argument, or making things up. The scans are there, now what?